Who Do You Like to Guard Dirk?

[Ghost Writer]

I don't like Duncan guarding the best big man on any opposing team (foul trouble and energy waster).

K. Thomas is not mobile enough to guard Dirk on the perimeter.

I think I'd try Oberto out on Nowitski in short spurts, but I like how Bowen guards him, to be honest.

Bowen gets in Dirk's face like an annoying pest.

Udoka deserves a shot at guarding Dirk, too. He has decent size and speed for the task and can make Dirk work a little on the other end.

Perhaps Bowen and Udoka with a dash of Oberto.

Thoughts?

[Holt's Cat]

Clearly it's someone the Spurs didn't sign, trade for, released, or traded away.

[MoSpur]

I like Ime more on him because Dirk is not too quick. Ime is much stronger than Bowen.

[td4mvp21]

I don't know, but I don't want Pop going small against the Mavs unless they go small. That is an instant loss formula.

[ricketts]

i would rotate Ime and Bruce, it's not a great size matchup but high energy and quick hands should keep him frusterated and off tempo.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I'd like to see Udoka get minutes covering Dirk at some point tonight just to see how he does, but I think I'd rather have Bowen on Dirk and put Ime on Howard.

[Kori Ellis]

You can rotate Bowen and Udoka on him - sometimes Oberto and Timmy too.

You might be able to start games with Bowen on Josh Howard and have Bowen end games on Dirk. Because Josh Howard is a horrible 4th quarter player, so he doesn't really need anyone to guard him late in games :lol

[Ghost Writer]

Clearly it's someone the Spurs didn't sign, trade for, released, or traded away.
Why must you always be a d1ck.

The Spurs potentially saved their playoff chances by trading for K. Thomas.

[shelshor]

Bowen & Udoka taking turns on Dirk & Howard to them both off balance

[baseline bum]

It's gotta be Bowen. We don't have a big who can keep up with him. I'm more concerned with how the team guards Josh Howard.

[Holt's Cat]

Why must you always be a d1ck.



I learned it by watching you.

[ancestron]

I think Ime Udoka has the potential to give Dirk some serious problems.

[yavozerb]

TP-Terry
Finley-Kidd
Bowen-Dirk
TD-Dampier
Oberto-Howard

[Spurminator]

I'd be interested to see a lineup with Bowen at the 3 and Udoka at the 4 against the Mavs. Bowen on Kidd, Udoka on Dirk. I don't know if I expect to see much Kurt Thomas vs. the Mavs.

[td4mvp21]

TP-Terry
Finley-Kidd
Bowen-Dirk
TD-Dampier
Oberto-Howard

Oberto on Howard, are you joking? That would not be pretty

[td4mvp21]

I'd be interested to see a lineup with Bowen at the 3 and Udoka at the 4 against the Mavs. Bowen on Kidd, Udoka on Dirk. I don't know if I expect to see much Kurt Thomas vs. the Mavs.

Then they would just put Dirk on Bowen on the defensive end. Having a second big in there forces him to be active.

[Xylus]

Howard would kill Oberto on every possession.

[Allanon]

TP-Terry
Finley-Kidd
Bowen-Dirk
TD-Dampier
Oberto-Howard

Oberto/Howard and Bowen/Dirk are not good matchups in my opinion. Leans heavily in favor of the Mavs. If you switch it around a bit Oberto/Dirk, Bowen/Howard, that will work better.

Ime on Dirk? Dirk is 7' tall and a fadeaway shooter, Ime's 6'5 I think.

How is he even going to bother Dirk's shot?

[Spurminator]

Ime on Dirk? Dirk is 7' tall and a fadeaway shooter, Ime's 6'5 I think.

Worked for Stephen Jackson... Jackson is 6'8", but I'd venture to guess Udoka's wingspan makes it about even.

[yavozerb]

Oberto on Howard, are you joking? That would not be pretty
My bad didnt even see that :blah
TP-Terry
Finley-Kidd
Udoka-Howard
Bowen-Dirk
TD-Dampier

[vanvannen]

Udoka is 6'9.
However he most likely will be on the court when Bowen rests, so they won't be able to guard both Dirk and Howard.
TP-Kidd
Terry-Finley
Oberto-Dirk
TD-Dampier
Bowen-Howard

Let Dirk torch Oberto (and get a few hard fouls) and keep all the other ones in check.
Dirk can't score 100pts.

[Allanon]

Udoka is 6'9.
However he most likely will be on the court when Bowen rests, so they won't be able to guard both Dirk and Howard.
TP-Kidd
Terry-Finley
Oberto-Dirk
TD-Dampier
Bowen-Howard

Let Dirk torch Oberto (and get a few hard fouls) and keep all the other ones in check.
Dirk can't score 100pts.

Udoka 6'9", there's no way, he's even shorter than Bowen.

[yavozerb]

Udoka is 6'5..

[stretch]

Worked for Stephen Jackson... Jackson is 6'8", but I'd venture to guess Udoka's wingspan makes it about even.
Steven Jackson also had another man doubling Dirk every time he touched the ball. It's a little easier to play defense when it's 2 on 1, and sometimes even 3 on 1.

[vanvannen]

Udoka is 6'5..

SOrry, I got confused with KT. My bad.

[stretch]

Udoka is 6'9.
However he most likely will be on the court when Bowen rests, so they won't be able to guard both Dirk and Howard.
TP-Kidd
Terry-Finley
Oberto-Dirk
TD-Dampier
Bowen-Howard

Let Dirk torch Oberto (and get a few hard fouls) and keep all the other ones in check.
Dirk can't score 100pts.
Terry will torch Finley, and Kidd will post Parker up all day.

[MoSpur]

Stephen Jackson didn't have help all the time. He didn't need it. Dirk was very frustrated with just Jackson on him.

[Kori Ellis]

Stephen Jackson didn't have help all the time. He didn't need it. Dirk was very frustrated with just Jackson on him.

Stephen Jackson is much bigger than Bowen or Odoka.

[vanvannen]

Terry couldn't torch a hotdog. Parker will get the help from former DPY Timmy Duncan.

[sribb43]

Howard would kill Oberto on every possession.

actually Howard would probably dribble the ball around for 15 seconds, wait for the shot clock to get down to 2 seconds and shoot a 20ft step back jumper....I can see it now

[duncan228]

...former DPY Timmy Duncan.

?

Duncan never got a DPOY. He deserved it a couple of times but he never got one.

[MoSpur]

I wasn't trying to say that Bowen or Udoka were bigger or as big as Stephen Jackson. I was responding to the person saying that Dirk was having trouble against the Warriors because he was double or tripled team.

I didn't say it that way. I doubt that Bowen or Udoka can guard Dirk one on one all night. I know whoever gets the assignment to guard Dirk will have help from time to time. It should be very interesting.

[stretch]

Stephen Jackson didn't have help all the time. He didn't need it. Dirk was very frustrated with just Jackson on him.
Fucking wrong.

[stretch]

actually Howard would probably dribble the ball around for 15 seconds, wait for the shot clock to get down to 2 seconds and shoot a 20ft step back jumper....I can see it now
:lol

thats the truth as of late

[thebigchill]

I think Pop will throw a lot of different looks, the odd double, just keep em guessing. I still think Timmy's our best bet. And I don't think he'll have any trouble getting his 20-25 on the other end. In IMO neither Bruce nor Ime can guard him consistently cause he'll just fade and burn.

[honestfool84]

Terry will torch Finley, and Kidd will post Parker up all day.


its funny how you say all these things as if you're watching a tape of the game after it happened.

-David

[stretch]

I still think Timmy's our best bet.
Dirk is too fast for Timmy, and will draw too many fouls on him. Plus, Dirk's perimeter game will take Timmy out of the middle, leaving it wide open, which is not good for the Spurs, as a lot of their perimeter defense depends on Duncan being down low.

[mardigan]

Man, I would have to go with Bowen or Horry. But no one on the Spurs roster matches up well with Dirk.

[stretch]

its funny how you say all these things as if you're watching a tape of the game after it happened.

-David
Okay, like Finley is all that great of a defender, or quick enough to hold Terry. Terry will get wide open for 3's all day long, like he always does against the Spurs.

Kidd is one of the best post-up PG's in the league, while Parker is one of the smaller and weakest PG's around. Are you telling me Parker is strong enough to hold his ground against Kidd? I think not, fatso.

[duncan228]

I still think Timmy's our best bet.

Duncan rarely guards Dirk one on one until the fourth, in a tight game and if he's not in foul trouble.

[stretch]

Man, I would have to go with Bowen or Horry. But no one on the Spurs roster matches up well with Dirk.
The fact is, Dirk and Duncan will always get their points on both sides, and Parker and Kidd will find their ways to contribute. The key for the Mavs is containing Manu, Bruce, and Finley. The key for the Spurs is to contain Terry, Stack, and Howard.

[sribb43]

Spurs need to worry more about the mavs new and improved center in Damp and how they will stop him :lol

[MoSpur]

You make it seem like Dirk was doubled team throughout the whole game in every game in that series versus the Warriors. He was doubled at times, but most of the time it was Jackson frustrating him.

[Holt's Cat]

Kidd will post Parker up all day.

Now you're just making shit up.

[callo1]

Bowen will probably guard Dirk. The great thing is now that Harris is gone, the Spurs can afford to put Bruce on Dirk. I expect that Ime gets alot of minutes on Howard tonight. Parker hopefully exploits his speed against Kid.

[stretch]

You make it seem like Dirk was doubled team throughout the whole game in every game in that series versus the Warriors. He was doubled at times, but most of the time it was Jackson frustrating him.
Obviously you did not watch the series. A large majority of the time that he would touch the ball, a defender would immediately come over. If they didnt already come, then they would wait until he started posting Jackson up, or driving on him, and then double him, because he wasn't very good as passing out at the time.

[Streakyshooter08]

Well, with the current roster it is hard to tell. Dirk is not that good, if he has to dribble the ball. I would let him score on Oberto and "shut down" the rest of the team. The Mavs are still a though matchup, no doubt... but you could ask: Who will guard Timmy or TP or Manu? It will take a good team effort to beat the Mavs...

[hsxvvd]

Terry will torch Finley, and Kidd will post Parker up all day.

Unlike most teams, Spurs help each other on D and this is why neither of these statements are true. Team defence. Something a few teams could learn from.

[Thompson]

If we start blowing them out tonight, I might be curious to see how Ian can do against him. He's long, fast and athletic. He's no longer quite the fouling machine he once was. Just try it for a few minutes for grins.

Ian can't be much worse than Elson, and Elson did have a good game vs. Dirk in their first meeting. No harm in trying it out in a blowout situation.

[baseline bum]

Terry will torch Finley, and Kidd will post Parker up all day.

I've never been a fan of point guards posting up, as it completely kills a team's offense. Mark Jackson's final years in Indiana were a perfect example of this. If Kidd wants to go on the block, I'm fine with that.

[stretch]

I've never been a fan of point guards posting up, as it completely kills a team's offense. Mark Jackson's final years in Indiana were a perfect example of this. If Kidd wants to go on the block, I'm fine with that.
Posting up doesn't quite mean scoring. Often times, it will draw a double team, and with Kidd passing, it means there will be a wide open shot.

[stretch]

Well, with the current roster it is hard to tell. Dirk is not that good, if he has to dribble the ball. I would let him score on Oberto and "shut down" the rest of the team. The Mavs are still a though matchup, no doubt... but you could ask: Who will guard Timmy or TP or Manu? It will take a good team effort to beat the Mavs...
It goes both ways.

Who will guard Dirk, Howard, and Terry?

Who will guard Tim, Manu, and Parker?

[honestfool84]

Okay, like Finley is all that great of a defender, or quick enough to hold Terry. Terry will get wide open for 3's all day long, like he always does against the Spurs.

Kidd is one of the best post-up PG's in the league, while Parker is one of the smaller and weakest PG's around. Are you telling me Parker is strong enough to hold his ground against Kidd? I think not, fatso.


who said we're gonna stick parker on kidd, and vice versa?
see, you don't know jack - you're assuming, and like the old saying goes, you're making an ASS out of yourself.

[stretch]

who said we're gonna stick parker on kidd, and vice versa?
see, you don't know jack - you're assuming, and like the old saying goes, you're making an ASS out of yourself.
It was dependent on what that one poster said, whom I quoted. In his lineup, he had Parker on Kidd, and Finley on Terry. Read the posts before replying, fuckface.

[Holt's Cat]

Parker can defend Kidd. Kidd can't defend Parker.

If TD gets Dampier in foul trouble who exactly is going to pick up the slack? Magloire? Please.

The Mavs can't slow down two of the Spurs' Big 3 now. Plus Manu's been playing out of his fucking mind.

Thanks for that trade again.

[honestfool84]

It was dependent on what that one poster said, whom I quoted. In his lineup, he had Parker on Kidd, and Finley on Terry. Read the posts before replying, fuckface.


alright.
well, ill just shut my mouth now..
cause we all know who's winning tonight.
its a good thing your coach has played with the spurs, and he's not a sore loser..
maybe he's passed that on to his teammates, and possibly his fan base.

[FromWayDowntown]

I still think that in end game situations with the chips on the table, we'll see Bruce on Dirk -- for all the contrarians, Bruce has actually been a fairly effective defender on Dirk in the past. Bruce makes sense in that role if only because he'll have more credibility with officials. It helps that Bruce is actually capable of making Dirk work for shots and causing him to take a lot of uncomfortable shots.

With that said, I'd expect the Spurs to do at least some experimentation tonight, including some time with Udoka, Finley, Duncan, Oberto, and perhaps even Thomas on Dirk at various points tonight.

[mavsfan1000]

Parker can defend Kidd. Kidd can't defend Parker.

If TD gets Dampier in foul trouble who exactly is going to pick up the slack? Magloire? Please.

The Mavs can't slow down two of the Spurs' Big 3 now. Plus Manu's been playing out of his fucking mind.

Thanks for that trade again.

Kidd should defend Manu and Howard and Terry switch on Parker.

[mardigan]

Kidd should defend Manu and Howard and Terry switch on Parker.
Manu would kill Kidd. He would have a better chance against a rusty Parker than Manu right now.

[Holt's Cat]

If Kidd defends Manu he might give up 50 tonight.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'd expect the Mavs to put Terry on Parker and to hide Kidd on Bowen. AJ may try to man up and put Kidd on Parker early, but I think the record pretty clearly established that when Kidd was a much more athletic player in 2003, Tony Parker blew by him for 3 games to open the Finals and got slowed down only when Byron Scott changed that matchup.

[mavsfan1000]

If Kidd defends Manu he might give up 50 tonight.
Have you seen any of Kidd's games since he came to Dallas? He is a very good defender. Especially against bigger players. His flaw maybe against the small and speedy point guards but he is solid against players like Manu.

[sribb43]

I'd expect the Mavs to put Terry on Parker and to hide Kidd on Bowen. AJ may try to man up and put Kidd on Parker early, but I think the record pretty clearly established that when Kidd was a much more athletic player in 2003, Tony Parker blew by him for 3 games to open the Finals and got slowed down only when Byron Scott changed that matchup.

mavs will hide terry on bowen....kidd, while slim, has a better chance against Parker than Terry does

[Holt's Cat]

Have you seen any of Kidd's games since he came to Dallas? He is a very good defender. Especially against bigger players. His flaw maybe against the small and speedy point guards but he is solid against players like Manu.

It takes more than "very good"...

[stretch]

alright.
well, ill just shut my mouth now..

Please, do.


cause we all know who's winning tonight.

Who is that?


its a good thing your coach has played with the spurs, and he's not a sore loser..
maybe he's passed that on to his teammates, and possibly his fan base.

:dizzy

[T Park]

Kidd should defend Manu and Howard and Terry switch on Parker.


Please let Avery Johnson be that stupid..

[G-Nob]

Please, do.



Who is that?



:dizzy


:rollin

[whottt]

Bruce or Oberto...


It's a myth that Dirk can't be guarded by big strong players...Alonzo Mourning and Shaq kicked his ass into the dirt in the 06 finals. I know they were putting Posey and Haslem on him too...but it was Zo and Shaq that made Dirk mortal again by putting him on his ass.


Dirk doesn't like getting banged around and it effects his game negatively.


Fact.

[mavsfan1000]

Please let Avery Johnson be that stupid..
Are you saying it is best for Kidd to guard Parker? Someone that he historically has had problems with? Manu isn't as quick and Kidd guards 2 guards well. I guess the haters will say Kidd is Nash on defense.

[td4mvp21]

Are you saying it is best for Kidd to guard Parker. Someone that he historically has had problems with?
What are you talking about? Parker usually plays quite well against Kidd.



Manu isn't as quick and Kidd guards 2 guards well. I guess the haters will say Kidd is Nash on defense.


Manu is still quick and I don't think Kidd can guard him effectively. I'm going to guess Howard guards him. And no, Kidd isn't Nash on defense, but he's not Bowen either.

[mardigan]

Are you saying it is best for Kidd to guard Parker? Someone that he historically has had problems with? Manu isn't as quick and Kidd guards 2 guards well. I guess the haters will say Kidd is Nash on defense.
It has more to do with the situation. Tony is still working out the kinks. Manu has been destroying everything in his path the last month or so. Its just a matter of timing.

[T Park]

Are you saying it is best for Kidd to guard Parker? Someone that he historically has had problems with? Manu isn't as quick and Kidd guards 2 guards well. I guess the haters will say Kidd is Nash on defense.


No he better hide Kidd on Bowen, unless he wants him to be in foul trouble all night.


Of course if you had Devin Harris he could take Parker straight up, you could hide Terry on Bowen, and leave Howard who can defend Ginobili, on manu.

But hey, you've got a point guard getting 15 assists a night so everythings good!! :tu

[sribb43]

what is all of this talk of how of Tp ran circles around Kidd back in the 2003 Finals...those stats arent very dominating to me

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/stats/playoffs/2003safinals.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/stats/playoffs/2003njfinals.htm

Parker '03 Finals

35.3 min
14.0 pts
3.2 rebs
4.2 asts
32-83 fg
.386 fg%
14-23 ft%
.609 fta
6-14 3pt
.429 3p%

[whottt]

what is all of this talk of how of Tp ran circles around Kidd back in the 2003 Finals...those stats arent vary dominating to me

Parker 35.3min 14.0pts 3.2rebs 4.2asts 32-83fg .386 fg% 14-23 ft% .609 fta 6-14 3pt .429 3p%


Because Kidd couldn't guard Parker and publicly begged for help defending him...


That lead to the Nets putting taller longer Kerry Kittles on him and Kerry Kittles did an excellent job on him.


IOW, those stats are not indicative of what Kidd did to Parker...but more what Kittles did to him.


Tony Parker might have won the Finals MVP that year if they hadn't stopped guarding him with Kidd...

[whottt]

what is all of this talk of how of Tp ran circles around Kidd back in the 2003 Finals...those stats arent very dominating to me

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/stats/playoffs/2003safinals.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/stats/playoffs/2003njfinals.htm

Parker '03 Finals

35.3 min
14.0 pts
3.2 rebs
4.2 asts
32-83 fg
.386 fg%
14-23 ft%
.609 fta
6-14 3pt
.429 3p%



All you are establishing is that you didn't actually watch the 2003 NBA finals.


Not surprising since basketball as we know it didn't exist in Dallas until 2006.

[z0sa]

All you are establishing is that you didn't actually watch the 2003 NBA finals.


Not surprising since basketball as know it didn't exist in Dallas until 2006.

My exact thoughts when I was reading his post.

Parker was murdering Kidd in SA those first couple of games.

Additionally, that was a very immature, inexperiences Tony parker. The current TP would run circles around Kittles, too, along with shooting from the outside.

[sribb43]

Because Kidd couldn't guard Parker and publicly begged for help defending him...


That lead to the Nets putting taller longer Kerry Kittles on him and Kerry Kittles did an excellent job on him.


IOW, those stats are not indicative of what Kidd did to Parker...but more what Kittles did to him.


Tony Parker might have won the Finals MVP that year if they hadn't stopped guarding him with Kidd...

Ok, i can understand that....here are TP's career #'s against the Nets...mind you Kittles hasnt been in NJ since the '03-'04 season


Career Stats vs. Nets

Games: 11
PPG: 16.8
FG%: 50%
FT%: 70.4%
3pt%: 27.8%
Rebs: 4.0
Asts: 4.2
TO: 3.1

[Holt's Cat]

TP scored 26 points on JKidd in game 3 to take back homecourt from the Nets who won game 2 in SA. Scott adjusts with Kittles on TP in game 4.

Then in game 6 Tim Duncan records 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 8 blocks. That has to be one of the top 5 individual performances in NBA Finals history.

[sribb43]

All you are establishing is that you didn't actually watch the 2003 NBA finals.


Not surprising since basketball as we know it didn't exist in Dallas until 2006.

if you dont remember those Finals were one of the least watched ever because it was the worst possible matchups one could imagine. I didnt analyze the 03 Finals bc it was awful to watch, check the scores

[Trainwreck2100]

what is all of this talk of how of Tp ran circles around Kidd back in the 2003 Finals...those stats arent very dominating to me

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/stats/playoffs/2003safinals.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/stats/playoffs/2003njfinals.htm

Parker '03 Finals

35.3 min
14.0 pts
3.2 rebs
4.2 asts
32-83 fg
.386 fg%
14-23 ft%
.609 fta
6-14 3pt
.429 3p%

That was when Speedy motherfuckin Claxton came in and lorded over Jason Kidd. Games 1-2 Parker was lights out and in Finals MVP running

On topic, i say put Kidd on Bowen, Terry on Parker, other guy, George? on Manu.

[Holt's Cat]

if you dont remember those Finals were one of the least watched ever because it was the worst possible matchups one could imagine. I didnt analyze the 03 Finals bc it was awful to watch, check the scores

Trophies aren't given out for losing in Finals with better ratings, as you should well know.

And Shaq was the only reason anyone bothered to watch the '06 Finals.

Ratings, the last resort for the desperate.

[td4mvp21]

In the first three games, Parker averaged 21 ppg and 5.3 apg on 46% shooting.

[whottt]

Mavfans...I promise you, Tony Parker is happier about you guys trading for Kidd than you are...

You probably could have gotten him to pay for Kidd's plane fare into Dallas. Seriously...hell, he'd proably have packed his bags and carried them onto the plane for him just so he'd get to Dallas sooner.


Harris being gone is just dessert...

[sribb43]

Trophies aren't given out for losing in Finals with better ratings, as you should well know.

your stating i didnt watch bball until 2006 and im saying i didnt follow those finals nor did anyone else as closely as a spurs fan would. this aint got nothing to do with the mavs 06 choke job....but go ahead and bring that up in your arguement bc it has so much relevance :rolleyes

[z0sa]

TP scored 26 points on JKidd in game 3 to take back homecourt from the Nets who won game 2 in SA. Scott adjusts with Kittles on TP in game 4.

Then in game 6 Tim Duncan records 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 8 blocks. That has to be one of the top 5 individual performances in NBA Finals history.

I would say its top 3 in the modern era, with Bird's performance in 84 or 86 being number one (the one where he had some 35pts, 12rbs 12asts)

Wilt averaged 25 rebounds in one finals series, hence why I say modern era. If we consider every finals series, i dont think tim's performances cracks the top 5.

[sribb43]

Mavfans...I promise you, Tony Parker is happier about you guys trading for Kidd than you are...

You probably could have gotten him to pay for Kidd's plane fare into Dallas. Seriously...hell, he'd proably have packed his bags and carried them onto the plane for him just so he'd get to Dallas sooner.


and for the record i never said JKidd was a TP stopper, i was just bringing forth stats

[whottt]

your stating i didnt watch bball until 2006 and im saying i didnt follow those finals nor did anyone else as closely as a spurs fan would. this aint got nothing to do with the mavs 06 choke job....but go ahead and bring that up in your arguement bc it has so much relevance :rolleyes


Ok...you didn't follow them...and thus you are ignorant and operating under the serverely WRONG belief that Jason Kidd can guard Tony Parker..


Just admit it and stop trying to use stats from a series you didn't watch to know something you don't...


It only makes you look stupid and unknowledgable...Kidd can't guard Parker. He couldn't guard Parker when he still had knees and Parker was in diapers.

[Holt's Cat]

your stating i didnt watch bball until 2006

I made no such statement.



and im saying i didnt follow those finals nor did anyone else as closely as a spurs fan would. this aint got nothing to do with the mavs 06 choke job....but go ahead and bring that up in your arguement bc it has so much relevance :rolleyes

Well, you made statements regarding the quality of play in the 2003 NBA Finals. The 2006 NBA Finals is quite relevant, given its outcome and the fact that you are indeed a fan of the Dallas Mavericks.

[Shaolin-Style]

Always love bowen to guard dirk, but also like it when TP messes with his head sometimes.

I want to see Udoka try to guard him some too.

[Findog]

I would imagine Terry will "guard" Parker and they'll stick Kidd on Manu or Bowen. And I would imagine Josh guards TP or Manu in crunchtime, so the whole Kidd vs Parker thing is a little overblown.

[whottt]

and for the record i never said JKidd was a TP stopper, i was just bringing forth stats


Bring up all the stats all you want...but Kidd got lit up and Kerry Kittles was the guy that finally stopped him...Parker's stats don't look that good because Kittles shut his butt down...including a 1-12 performance in one game.


Stats are no substitute for actually watching the game...




All you need to know? Is that Spurs fans would be more upset if you guys had signed Kerry Kittles...

[sribb43]

Ok...you didn't follow them...and thus you are ignorant and operating under the serverely WRONG belief that Jason Kidd can guard Tony Parker..


Just admit and stop trying to use stats from a series you didn't watch to know something you don't...

Like i said i never stated that and was just wondering after looking at those stats from the finals why peolple said TP abuses Kidd. Thats why i made the post....nowhere did i say "Kidd can guard Parker"...You stated your claim and I can see why people would say that if Kittles switched over to Kidd that TP's stats diminished.

[urunobili]

You can rotate Bowen and Udoka on him - sometimes Oberto and Timmy too.

You might be able to start games with Bowen on Josh Howard and have Bowen end games on Dirk. Because Josh Howard is a horrible 4th quarter player, so he doesn't really need anyone to guard him late in games :lol

would hate to have him kill us on a 4th after these words... but what you say it makes sense

[td4mvp21]

In the past three seasons against the Nets, in 5 games (Kidd didn't play in one game last year), Parker averaged 18.6 ppg, over 6 apg on 56% shooting.

[ChumpDumper]

Bring up all the stats all you want...but Kidd got lit up and Kerry Kittles was the guy that finally stopped him...Parker's stats don't look that good because Kittles shut his butt down...including a 1-12 performance in one game.


Stats are no substitute for actually watching the game...True enough. Speedy Claxton became a Spurs legend because Byron Scott put Kidd on him so Speedy could abuse him as badly as Parker did before the Kittles switch.

[Findog]

If Kidd is as ill-suited to guard Parker as Spurs fans say he is, that will be established soon enough. He can be hidden on Bowen. We're not the freakin' Suns when it comes to defense. In crunchtime, I'm sure you'll see Josh guarding TP.

[td4mvp21]

If Kidd is as ill-suited to guard Parker as Spurs fans say he is, that will be established soon enough. He can be hidden on Bowen. We're not the freakin' Suns when it comes to defense. In crunchtime, I'm sure you'll see Josh guarding TP.

I think Avery would do that too. Hopefully Parker can beat him to the basket.

[whottt]

If Kidd is as ill-suited to guard Parker as Spurs fans say he is, that will be established soon enough. He can be hidden on Bowen. We're not the freakin' Suns when it comes to defense. In crunchtime, I'm sure you'll see Josh guarding TP.


Who guards Parker?

Oh yeah...the back up PG for the NJ Nets..

Good luck :tu

[Findog]

Who guards Parker?

Oh yeah...the back up PG for the NJ Nets..

Good luck :tu

And who guards Dirk? Who guards Howard? Who guards Kidd? Who guards Terry? Who guards Duncan? Who guards Manu? Good players and great players get theirs.

The Mavs traded away two guys that have had some success against the Spurs, and on paper they gave away a couple of matchup advantages. But that trade was about more than just beating the Spurs, it was about giving a team that had been going through the motions an emotional lift, and becoming better equipped to win four series, not just one against San Antonio. It was a risk and a tradeoff, especially considering how much younger Devin is. We'll see what happens. I'm tired of hearing about how Duncan is going to drop 60 points on Magloire and Parker is going to do the same to Kidd, who probably won't even be matched up on him.

When it comes to that 2006 playoff series, it was Dirk, Jet, Josh, Devin, Damp and Stackhouse who beat you, in that order. The Mavs are better overall after this trade. Whether they're better against the Spurs we'll soon find out. Just play the games already.

[whottt]

Who guards Kidd?


No one has to...that's the beauty of it. That wasn't true with Harris.


I hate to tell you this but Kidd is like a sub 40% shooter for his career...or close to it. Between that and his TO's...and the fact that you again have to become a passing ball movement oriented team(which is the teeth of the Spurs D)...you guys did just become the Suns again...only without a PG that can hang with Parker offensively like Nash can.

You're going to notice a difference in the chemistry between our two teams tonight...you're going to notice somethingt has changed and that edge you got against us by making AJ your head coach is going to be gone...because he can't run an iso oriented offense against us and force Pop to destroy his own defense anymore..


You want to know who's going to guarding Dirk? Whoever we put on him...and Jason Kidd's defender. *clang*

[T Park]

And who guards Dirk?


Bowen or Udoka, or Horry.

Who guards Howard?
Udoka or Bowen

Who guards Kidd?
Udoka, Bowen, or Ginobili

Who guards Terry?

Tony parker.

Thin short shooting guards.

His specialty :smokin

[Findog]

No one has to...that's the beauty of it. That wasn't true with Harris.

Right, because Kidd's job is to score.


I hate to tell you this but Kidd is like a sub 40% shooter for his career...or close to it.

Gee, I would've never known that considering he played for us before, or that hasn't been documented ad nauseum.


Between that and his TO's...and the fact that you again have to become a passing ball movement oriented team(which is the teeth of the Spurs D)...you guys did just become the Suns again...only without a PG that can hang with Parker offensively like Nash can.

We still have Josh, Jet and Dirk, three guys who can create their own shot and iso whenever they need to. When it comes to the Spurs, we lost our 4th and 7th most important players. That's a risk this team was willing and needed to make. We have our needs, you have yours.

[Findog]

Bowen or Udoka, or Horry.

So when it comes to Dirk, in other words, nobody really.

[Amarelooms]

I don't like Duncan guarding the best big man on any opposing team (foul trouble and energy waster).

K. Thomas is not mobile enough to guard Dirk on the perimeter.

I think I'd try Oberto out on Nowitski in short spurts, but I like how Bowen guards him, to be honest.

Bowen gets in Dirk's face like an annoying pest.

Udoka deserves a shot at guarding Dirk, too. He has decent size and speed for the task and can make Dirk work a little on the other end.

Perhaps Bowen and Udoka with a dash of Oberto.

Thoughts?

Earth to Spurs homers...NO ONE on the Spurs can guard Dirk...just pray you can contain him :elephant

[whottt]

Right, because Kidd's job is to score.



Gee, I would've never known that considering he played for us before, or that hasn't been documented ad nauseum.


Obviously you didn't...or you wouldn't have been asking who was going to guard him...


You should have been asking how he's going to be passing the ball to defended men...and asking how he's going to score when he can't score :tu




We still have Josh, Jet and Dirk, three guys who can create their own shot and iso whenever they need to. When it comes to the Spurs, we lost our 4th and 7th most important players. That's a risk this team was willing and needed to make. We have our needs, you have yours.


Uh uh...when it comes to the NBA you lost your 4th and 7th most important players...when it comes to the Spurs you lost your 1st and 2nd most important players...not to mention are now starting your 16th worst...

[ChumpDumper]

So who is this week's paper champion?

[Findog]

So who is this week's paper champion?

Devin Harris and DeSagana Diop.

[T Park]

So when it comes to Dirk, in other words, nobody really.


Yeah Bowen and Udoka are horrible defenders

[ChumpDumper]

Devin Harris and DeSagana Diop.Those guys are pretty good.

[Findog]

Uh uh...when it comes to the NBA you lost your 4th and 7th most important players...when it comes to the Spurs you lost your 1st and 2nd most important players....

I'm speechless. Devin and Diop are more important when it comes to beating San Antonio than Dirk and Josh.

:lmao

So New Jersey is going to whip you guys like a drum the next time you play them, right?

[mavsfan1000]

My question is who is going to guard Dampier? Expect to get abused on the boards. Something the Suns don't do.

[ChumpDumper]

My question is who is going to guard Dampier? Expect to get abused on the boards. Something the Suns don't do.You haven't seen the Suns lately.

And :lol @ Dampier.

[Findog]

Yeah Bowen and Udoka are horrible defenders

I didn't watch the December game when Duncan was out, so I don't know how Udoka did matched up on Dirk, but yeah, Bowen certainly is subpar when matched up on Dirk. He couldn't do a damn thing against him in the playoff series two years ago. And it's almost better to put Bowen on Josh, since he's a lot more capable of getting under Josh's skin and mentally taking him out of his game.

[mavsfan1000]

You haven't seen the Suns lately.
I was talking about the difference between the Mavs now and the Suns of last year. The Mavs are a great rebounding team unlike the Suns that the Spurs beat.

[td4mvp21]

My question is who is going to guard Dampier? Expect to get abused on the boards. Something the Suns don't do.

Duncan and Thomas. I'll take that. No mismatch there.

[ChumpDumper]

I was talking about the difference between the Mavs now and the Suns of last year. The Mavs are a great rebounding team unlike the Suns that the Spurs beat.That's one reason we got Thomas and Udoka. The Spurs are better at boarding now too.

Were you serious about guarding Dampier?

[td4mvp21]

I didn't watch the December game when Duncan was out, so I don't know how Udoka did matched up on Dirk, but yeah, Bowen certainly is subpar when matched up on Dirk. He couldn't do a damn thing against him in the playoff series two years ago. And it's almost better to put Bowen on Josh, since he's a lot more capable of getting under Josh's skin and mentally taking him out of his game.

I wouldn't say Bowen is subpar against Dirk. He forces Dirk into some tough shots, Dirk just makes them. And you're right about Howard.

[whottt]

I'm speechless. Devin and Diop are more important when it comes to beating San Antonio than Dirk and Josh.

Hmmm...Devin and Diop are definitely more important than Josh...

Dirk didn't become important against us until you guys got Devin Harris ironically enough...because then we had to guard all your guys one on one.

Harris was the #1 key to consistently beating us...He's the only guy in the NBA that can defend Parker...and he could score on Parker too...

You traded him for perhaps the worst scoring star PG in the NBA...and the worst Parker defender...

How you think that is going to wind up a plus against us is beyond me...

On top of that...our D is built around disrupting our opponents passing offense, and you guys just became a passing oriented team...only with a guy who turns it over more than perhaps any PG in history.


In summary...Kidd needs to pull down about 30 rebounds per game for you to come out of this trade ahead, against us.



:lmao
[/quote]
So New Jersey is going to whip you guys like a drum the next time you play them, right?[/QUOTE]


I don't know...I'll bet they no longer have bitch status against us...

[mavsfan1000]

Duncan and Thomas. I'll take that. No mismatch there.
One of those will have to go out and guard Dirk which allows Howard and Kidd to get some opportunities for offensive rebounds. I still expect Dallas to dominate the boards like they always do.

[G-Nob]

I'm speechless. Devin and Diop are more important when it comes to beating San Antonio than Dirk and Josh.

:lmao

So New Jersey is going to whip you guys like a drum the next time you play them, right?


Collectively the mavs were a better team defensively. I still think they gave up to much to get Kidd just with those two guys alone. They should've rode it out until Harris got back and they'd been able to turn a corner.

[ChumpDumper]

So New Jersey is going to whip you guys like a drum the next time you play them, right?Frank is not a good coach. I don't expect him to use those players properly.

They should hire Larry Brown if they can.

[Findog]

Those guys are pretty good.

In the beginning, God created all things and saw that they were good:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/230/507103729_e5e859fdf9_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1316/576651641_bd704b31f1.jpg

And God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Sons, that whosoever believeth in them, should not perish, but have everlasting life...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1002/620833054_a2b5414cde_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1083/985193477_770ba73067.jpg

[td4mvp21]

One of those will have to go out and guard Dirk which allows Howard and Kidd to get some opportunities for offensive rebounds. I still expect Dallas to dominate the boards like they always do.

You won't see that combination against the Mavs. It will be either or. Oops! And they won't dominate either, unless the Spurs just don't put forth any effort on the boards. The Spurs are a good rebounding team, it's not like we are the Suns.

Edit: You might see the combination if Pop wants to try Thomas on Dirk, but I don't think that would last long. Even so, Duncan will still be in the paint,

[whottt]

Frank is not a good coach. I don't expect him to use those players properly.

They should hire Larry Brown if they can.


Ironically enough...Kidd had a good coach and ran him out of town for a yesman...Kidd doesn't seem to get along well with disciplinarian type coaches....and seems to prefer yes men even if it costs him finals appearances and makes his team suck so bad he forces a trade....after he demands a trade to get the yesman in there in the first place :lmao



Goodbye Mavs...it was fun while it lasted :lol


I mean that sincerely... Goodbye :tu

[Findog]

I personally wouldn't mind Kidd running Avery out of town.

[Findog]

Ironically enough...Kidd had a good coach and ran him out of town for a yesman...Kidd doesn't seem to get along well with disciplinarian type coaches....and seems to prefer yes men even if it costs him finals appearances and makes his team suck so bad he forces a trade....after he demands a trade to get the yesman in there in the first place :lmao



Goodbye Mavs...it was fun while it lasted :lol


I mean that sincerely... Goodbye :tu

Douglas McArthur: "On to the Yalu. We'll be home by Christmas."

[whottt]

I personally wouldn't mind Kidd running Avery out of town.



Us either :lol


Let us know if there's anything we can do to help...

[mavsfan1000]

Ironically enough...Kidd had a good coach and ran him out of town for a yesman...Kidd doesn't seem to get along well with disciplinarian type coaches....and seems to prefer yes men even if it costs him finals appearances and makes his team suck so bad he forces a trade....after he demands a trade to get the yesman in there in the first place :lmao



Goodbye Mavs...it was fun while it lasted :lol


I mean that sincerely... Goodbye :tu
Yeah Kidd was just horrible getting to the finals twice with a weak team when Kenyon Martin is your best scorer. :lol

[td4mvp21]

I personally wouldn't mind Kidd running Avery out of town.

Why? He's a pretty good coach if you ask me, he's the only reason the Mavs got to legitimate contender status in the first place. He got the team to start playing defense.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Douglas McArthur: "On to the Yalu. We'll be home by Christmas."

Jerry Stackhouse quoted Douglas MacArthur right after the first attempt at the Kidd trade and got into trouble. :spin

[whottt]

Yeah Kidd was just horrible getting to the finals twice with a weak team when Kenyon Martin is your best scorer. :lol


Even the 03 Mavs would have made the Finals coming from the East :lol



Even this years Mavs would have made the 03 Finals coming from the East :lmao

[Findog]

Why? He's a pretty good coach if you ask me, he's the only reason the Mavs got to legitimate contender status in the first place. He got the team to start playing defense.

Yes, he is a damn good coach. He's a great motivator. He retooled the team by making them care about defense. We wouldn't have accomplished as much as we have without making an effort to become a team that can consistently get stops. But Joe Dumars wasn't gun-shy about firing a very good coach to bring in a great one. And I'm not saying I want Larry Brown in Dallas, but I'll put it this way: Pat Riley and Nellie would've won those series whether they had Dallas' roster or their own. And I'm not saying that I want Nellie back, but I DO want a coach that won't get worked over like a punching bag in the playoffs.

[Findog]

Us either :lol


Let us know if there's anything we can do to help...

It's half in jest. I think Avery is a very good coach, but he's under the gun after the curbstompings he took at the hands of Nellie and Riley. Those two coaches could've won with Dallas' roster, that's how bad they worked Avery over.

[mavsfan1000]

Even the 03 Mavs would have made the Finals coming from the East :lol



Even this years Mavs would have made the 03 Finals coming from the East :lmao
They took your team to 6 very tough games. Yeah Kidd got that team to overachieve as they barely had any perimeter offense so the Spurs could pack it in. For Kidd being such a liability, you would think the Spurs would've scored more in that series.

[td4mvp21]

Yes, he is a damn good coach. He's a great motivator. He retooled the team by making them care about defense. We wouldn't have accomplished as much as we have without making an effort to become a team that can consistently get stops. But Joe Dumars wasn't gun-shy about firing a very good coach to bring in a great one. And I'm not saying I want Larry Brown in Dallas, but I'll put it this way: Pat Riley and Nellie would've won those series whether they had Dallas' roster or their own. And I'm not saying that I want Nellie back, but I DO want a coach that won't get worked over like a punching bag in the playoffs.

Fair enough


But Joe Dumars wasn't gun-shy about firing a very good coach to bring in a great one.

Please tell me you're talking about firing Rick Carlisle and hiring Larry Brown, rather than firing Larry Brown and hiring Flip Saunders :lol

[whottt]

Yeah Kidd was just horrible getting to the finals twice with a weak team when Kenyon Martin is your best scorer. :lol


Oh yeah...and Kidd didn't like that coach and got him fired...something about him being too authoritarian...and sucked thereafter.

Not much chance of any thing like that happening in Dallas right...


Nah...no authoritarian coaches in Dallas are there :lmao

[ChumpDumper]

They took your team to 6 very tough games. Yeah Kidd got that team to overachieve as they barely had any perimeter offense so the Spurs could pack it in. For Kidd being such a liability, you would think the Spurs would've scored more in that series.They had a very good coach. Pretty much a dick, but a very good coach. He was smart enough to take Kidd off of Parker after all....just not smart enough to take him off of Speedy Claxton too.

[mavsfan1000]

Oh yeah...and Kidd didn't like that coach and got him fired...something about him being too authoritarian...and sucked thereafter.

Not much chance of any thing like that happening in Dallas right...


Nah...no authoritarian coaches in Dallas are there :lmao
I'll take my chances and say Kidd won't do that here.

[whottt]

They took your team to 6 very tough games. Yeah Kidd got that team to overachieve as they barely had any perimeter offense so the Spurs could pack it in. For Kidd being such a liability, you would think the Spurs would've scored more in that series.


LOL...that team was built around Duncan, a 20 year old PG, a gimpy Argie rookie, a career journeyman with attitude problems, a broken down HOF center who had trouble walking after back to back games...

And those were the good players on that team.


It aint 2003 anymore bud...for Kidd either.

:lol

[whottt]

I'll take my chances and say Kidd won't do that here.


Awesome...maybe you can tell me why he did it there...

[ChumpDumper]

I'll take my chances and say Kidd won't do that here.
I think the main reason he won't do that here is that he doesn't have the same pull as he did in New Jersey.

That and AJ will probably be fired after the Mavs are eliminated again without Kidd's having to say a word.

[whottt]

It's half in jest. I think Avery is a very good coach, but he's under the gun after the curbstompings he took at the hands of Nellie and Riley. Those two coaches could've won with Dallas' roster, that's how bad they worked Avery over.


Those two coaches wouldn't have beaten the Spurs with Dallas' roster. Hell, Nelly couldn't beat us with a better roster.


I'm not the biggest AJ fan in the world...but you guys hired him to beat the Spurs...and he's done just that.

[mavsfan1000]

LOL...that team was built around Duncan, a 20 year old PG, a gimpy Argie rookie, a career journeyman with attitude problems, a broken down HOF center who had trouble walking after back to back games...

And those were the good players on that team.


It aint 2003 anymore bud...for Kidd either.

:lol
You forgot Stephen Jackson, Speedy Claxton, and Malik Rose. Whatever suits your grey and black tinted glasses. Parker relies on speed like he always had so he was already good at 20. A 60 win team that year. Duncan in his prime as well btw.

[whottt]

That and AJ will probably be fired after the Mavs are eliminated again without Kidd's having to say a word.


I'm saying Dirk will beat Kidd to the punch...

[mavsfan1000]

Awesome...maybe you can tell me why he did it there...
Byron Scott is a dick. That's why. Avery might be strict but he is a nice guy.

[Findog]

Those two coaches wouldn't have beaten the Spurs with Dallas' roster. Hell, Nelly couldn't beat us with a better roster.


I'm not the biggest AJ fan in the world...but you guys hired him to beat the Spurs...and he's done just that.

You don't get a ring for just beating the Spurs. And the 2003 Spurs were better than the 2003 Mavs, that's why the series turned out the way it did, especially with Dirk's injury. Those Mavs had more offensive firepower, but they didn't have a low-post force like Duncan, and they weren't very good defensively. They got as far as they did with zones and basically smoke and mirrors.

[whottt]

You forgot Stephen Jackson,

I mentioned him...




Speedy Claxton,

He didn't become a factor until he had Jason Kidd defending :lmao




and Malik Rose.

True...I forgot Malik...add one 6'5 C/PF who has been on the IR for every team he played for other than the Spurs to my earlier description.




Whatever suits your grey and black tinted glasses. Parker relies on speed like he always had so he was already good at 20. A 60 win team that year btw. Duncan in his prime as well btw.


Actually...Duncan's probably more in his prime now than he was then.

[whottt]

You don't get a ring for just beating the Spurs.

You don't get a ring without beating us either bitch...who the fucks league do you think this is?

You know what teams have beaten us in the last 7 years? The Mavs...and the Lakers, and that's it.




And the 2003 Spurs were better than the 2003 Mavs, that's why the series turned out the way it did,
I don't really think they were...they just weren't as soft...AJ's what stopped you guys from being soft. Kinda...

[Warlord23]

Of all the random arguing going on in this thread, I think Whott nailed it:

Dallas beat SA in 2006 because they ran iso-plays. They'd use a screen or two to get a mismatch, but iso was their key ingredient. The Spurs' D thrives against passing-oriented offenses. AJ knows this best, so all he did was isolate his best weapons 1-on-1.

Now the Mavs' easiest points come when they get out faster on transition with Kidd looking to create an easy bucket for Dirk or Dampier or whoever else. Believe me, the Spurs play best against that type of offense (see Phoenix). Kidd + scoring weapons is like Nash + scoring weapons, except:
a) Nash is a better shooter so you cant sag off of him. With Kidd the Spurs are going to dare him to beat them. They're going to stay home on Terry and Stack and give Kidd the look.
b) Amare is way more athletic inside than any Mavs finisher (Dampier, Dirk, Howard). You're not getting any easy points inside.

If Avery goes for the iso stuff they're still going to leave Kidd alone and bring help from the weak side. Should be good stuff, especially since the Spurs seemed to have picked up their D in the last few games.

Dallas will no doubt rebound well, but that won't be enough.

[mavsfan1000]

Actually...Duncan's probably more in his prime now than he was then.
Not that you had any credibilty to begin but that statement gave me insurance that you are an idiot. Duncan was incredible that year. Much more mobile than he is now.

[GSH]

I don't know why anyone even took the bait on this one. In the first two games this year, Nitwitzki averaged 16 ppg...lower than against any other opponent. Somebody is sure as hell defending him.

But if that's not good enough, there's a 2-step approach to stopping Dirk that's guaranteed. Just tell him the following:

1. This is a very important game, and everyone is watching
2. Don Nelson called Popovich last night and gave him the secret to making Nitwitzki look stupid

Then step back and watch the fun. Just be sure not to give the zebras any excuse to perform an on-court Heimlich maneiver by putting him on the line 25 times.

[whottt]

Not that you had any credibilty to begin but that statement gave me insurance that you are an idiot. Duncan was incredible that year. Much more mobile than he is now.


Duncan wasn't that mobile then and he's not that immobile now....

He lost his jumping ability long before the 2003 season...

The injury that changed him was in 2000.


He's a better leader now...he's a better shooter now, he's a smarter and more experienced player now...He hasn't relied on physical ability since 2000 dude...

[mavsfan1000]

Of all the random arguing going on in this thread, I think Whott nailed it:

Dallas beat SA in 2006 because they ran iso-plays. They'd use a screen or two to get a mismatch, but iso was their key ingredient. The Spurs' D thrives against passing-oriented offenses. AJ knows this best, so all he did was isolate his best weapons 1-on-1.

Now the Mavs' easiest points come when they get out faster on transition with Kidd looking to create an easy bucket for Dirk or Dampier or whoever else. Believe me, the Spurs play best against that type of offense (see Phoenix). Kidd + scoring weapons is like Nash + scoring weapons, except:
a) Nash is a better shooter so you cant sag off of him. With Kidd the Spurs are going to dare him to beat them. They're going to stay home on Terry and Stack and give Kidd the look.
b) Amare is way more athletic inside than any Mavs finisher (Dampier, Dirk, Howard). You're not getting any easy points inside.

If Avery goes for the iso stuff they're still going to leave Kidd alone and bring help from the weak side. Should be good stuff, especially since the Spurs seemed to have picked up their D in the last few games.

Dallas will no doubt rebound well, but that won't be enough.
If Phoenix was able to match San Antonio with their rebounding than Phoenix would've won. That fact is San Antonio dominated the boards and therefore won the series. The games were close but the rebounds made the difference.

[T Park]

Not that you had any credibilty to begin but that statement gave me insurance that you are an idiot. Duncan was incredible that year. Much more mobile than he is now.


More mobile, but not as good as he is now.

Once again, Mavs fan shows his ignorance.

[mavsfan1000]

Duncan wasn't that mobile then and he's not that immobile now....

He lost his jumping ability long before the 2003 season...

The injury that changed him was in 2000.


He's a better leader now...he's a better shooter now, he's a smarter and more experienced player now...He hasn't relied on physical ability since 2000 dude...
Well if that's the case, Dampier has a good chance against Duncan tonight. I don't believe that. Duncan had some great years from 2001-2005. 2006 he didn't play well until the playoffs and last year he wasn't quite same despite being healthy as of years past. This year the same story.

[whottt]

Tim Duncan then

39 MPG
23 PPG
13 RPG
3 BPG

Tim Duncan now
34 MPG
20 PPG
11 RPG
2 BPG


They don't call him groundhog day for nothing...the only thing that's truly less now is his minutes and the fact that he doesn't get as many touches in the fourth as he used too...and he's a got a better team now.

[td4mvp21]

If Phoenix was able to match San Antonio with their rebounding than Phoenix would've won. That fact is San Antonio dominated the boards and therefore won the series. The games were close but the rebounds made the difference.

False. They outrebounded us in 2 games that series, the rebounding was equal in 1 game, and they were within 1 rebound in 1 game.

[T Park]

Gauranteed tonight, there is gonna be a huge helpin of 4 down, with Dampier the only big man worth a crap on the roster.

[mavsfan1000]

False. They outrebounded us in 2 games that series, the rebounding was equal in 1 game, and they were within 1 rebound in 1 game.
Still advantage spurs and game 5 was the killer for the suns when they got Amare and Diaw suspended. Could've been a different story. Should be a good game tonight but you are definitely underestimating the damage Kidd could do to the spurs. Dallas has the isolation players still and Kidd will allow some fastbreak points if San Antonio does some screw ups.

[td4mvp21]

Well if that's the case, Dampier has a good chance against Duncan tonight. I don't believe that. Duncan had some great years from 2001-2005. 2006 he didn't play well until the playoffs and last year he wasn't quite same despite being healthy as of years past. This year the same story.

What the fuck are you talking about? Quit talking out of your ass. Duncan looked fine last season, last playoffs, and he looks great this season.

[td4mvp21]

Still advantage spurs and game 5 was the killer for the suns when they got Amare and Diaw suspended. Could've been a different story. Should be a good game tonight but you are definitely underestimating the damage Kidd could do to the spurs. Dallas has the isolation players still and Kidd will allow some fastbreak points if San Antonio does some screw ups.

We won because we were the better team.

[GSH]

Well if that's the case, Dampier has a good chance against Duncan tonight. I don't believe that. Duncan had some great years from 2001-2005. 2006 he didn't play well until the playoffs and last year he wasn't quite same despite being healthy as of years past. This year the same story.

From last year:

"If I get (the MVP), that's great, obviously," Nowitzki said. "In 20 years, looking back on my career, it would be wonderful to say that I was MVP one year. But that's not really something right now I'm thinking about. Right now, we're so close to winning a championship, that's really the only thing on my mind."

If Nowitzki wants some good news, 10 of the 11 teams to have won 65 or more games won the crown, with it happening eight of the nine times the MVP came off such a team.

Does that ring any bells? Can you say first round? Number eight seed? Seriously, I would think you Mavs trolls would tone it down a bit after watching your team suffer the most spectacular meltdown in the history of the sport. Duncan didn't play good until the playoffs? Hello.... that beats the shit out of the other way around.

Nobody gives a shit who is going to guard Dirk, or how many games the Mavs win in the regular season. Win a ring. Then come back and we'll talk. :nope

[whottt]

I hate to break this to you Mavfan...but there's a bigger dropff in some of Dirk's numbers between now and 2 years ago than there are between Duncan's now and 5 years ago.

[td4mvp21]

From last year:

"If I get (the MVP), that's great, obviously," Nowitzki said. "In 20 years, looking back on my career, it would be wonderful to say that I was MVP one year. But that's not really something right now I'm thinking about. Right now, we're so close to winning a championship, that's really the only thing on my mind."

If Nowitzki wants some good news, 10 of the 11 teams to have won 65 or more games won the crown, with it happening eight of the nine times the MVP came off such a team.

Does that ring any bells? Can you say first round? Number eight seed? Seriously, I would think you Mavs trolls would tone it down a bit after watching your team suffer the most spectacular meltdown in the history of the sport.

Nobody gives a shit who is going to guard Dirk, or how many games the Mavs win in the regular season. Win a ring. Then come back and we'll talk. :nope

I don't think any of them are trolling. And we are talking about tonight's matchup, I don't think championships have anything to do with it :wtf

[duncan228]

Duncan is playing great this season, especially lately as he begins to turn it up for the stretch run.

He played with plantar facciitis in '05-'06, his numbers went down.
Even hurt he was incredible in the Mavs series.

Last year he was fine.

[GSH]

I don't think any of them are trolling. And we are talking about tonight's matchup, I don't think championships have anything to do with it :wtf

No?
"Earth to Spurs homers...NO ONE on the Spurs can guard Dirk...just pray you can contain him" and the comment about Tim not playing good until the playoffs? Looks a little like trolling to me. But it's not just this thread.

My point was just that the regular season doesn't bring home the hardware. And being "unstoppable" during the regular season might have gotten Nowitzki a trophy, but not the one he wanted.

[dirk4mvp]

No?
"Earth to Spurs homers...NO ONE on the Spurs can guard Dirk...just pray you can contain him"

That's not trolling. That's just a true statement.

[Sense]

shit even TP can guard him

[td4mvp21]

No?
"Earth to Spurs homers...NO ONE on the Spurs can guard Dirk...just pray you can contain him"
It's hard to guard Dirk. The Spurs defend him well, but he scores anyway. Kind of like with Duncan.



and the comment about Tim not playing good until the playoffs? Looks a little like trolling to me. But it's not just this thread.
That was stupidity, not trolling.

[ChumpDumper]

shit even TP can guard himNothing makes me laugh harder than Dirk's shooting fadeaway 18-footers over a guy a foot shorter.

[GSH]

Well if that's the case, Dampier has a good chance against Duncan tonight. I don't believe that. Duncan had some great years from 2001-2005. 2006 he didn't play well until the playoffs and last year he wasn't quite same despite being healthy as of years past. This year the same story.

One more thing - the idiots who want to talk about the drop in Duncan's numbers without mentioning the decrease in his minutes. I guess it never occurs to any of you that there is a reason Tim has enough gas in the tank to step things up during the playoffs.

Time takes a toll on every player, and Tim doesn't have the lift he had coming out of Wake. But the numbers have dropped pretty much in proportion to his minutes. And I think even some Spurs fans haven't noticed that includes his turnovers and fouls too. That's right... his turnovers and fouls have dropped in proportion to everything else. That's not a factor of age, it's a factor of minutes.

[K-State Spur]

Anybody other than Bowen.

Bruce makes Dirk work, but Dirk still manages to get his.

However, Bruce is capable of putting the clamps on Howard.

[Allanon]

The truth of the matter is Dirk will get his, Duncan will get his and Manu will get his.

Those are the certainties, you can pencil them in.

The questions will be Jet, TP, Howard and whether or not Kidd will be effective.

[K-State Spur]

One more thing - the idiots who want to talk about the drop in Duncan's numbers without mentioning the decrease in his minutes. I guess it never occurs to any of you that there is a reason Tim has enough gas in the tank to step things up during the playoffs.

Time takes a toll on every player, and Tim doesn't have the lift he had coming out of Wake. But the numbers have dropped pretty much in proportion to his minutes. And I think even some Spurs fans haven't noticed that includes his turnovers and fouls too. That's right... his turnovers and fouls have dropped in proportion to everything else. That's not a factor of age, it's a factor of minutes.

Good point. I'm not a huge believer in PER, but that is based more on per minute numbers, and his PER still puts him as one of the best players in the game. It has not dropped much with his age.

I really can't think of a better all-around true low post player anywhere else in the game.

[Sense]

Nothing makes me laugh harder than Dirk's shooting fadeaway 18-footers over a guy a foot shorter.

I've paid alot of attention to it.. haha and he actually misses alot of those. I do actually believe TP can guard him.. :)

[Findog]

You don't get a ring without beating us either bitch...who the fucks league do you think this is?

David Stern's? Considering we've done it before, I'm not sweating it. Of course, that was before we traded Oscar Robertson and Bill Russell to New Jersey.



You know what teams have beaten us in the last 7 years? The Mavs...and the Lakers, and that's it.

And we still have Dirk, Josh, Jet, and Stack, all guys who can take their man off the dribble on isos. Do you think the Mavs braintrust would've made this deal if they thought it crippled their chances to beat the Spurs? Say what you will about Donnie, AJ and Cuban, but they're not dumb. What would be the point of that, since the only chance a team has to avoid San Antonio is for Dallas or LA to take care of them before they have a chance to meet.



I don't really think they were...they just weren't as soft...AJ's what stopped you guys from being soft. Kinda...

Well, the results say otherwise.

[duncan228]

Findog, you hanging around for the game?

[Findog]

I hate to break this to you Mavfan...but there's a bigger dropff in some of Dirk's numbers between now and 2 years ago than there are between Duncan's now and 5 years ago.

No there isn't. He's down from 25 and 9 to 23 in 9, from 50% shooting to 48% shooting. From 90% FT shooting to 87%. And that's mostly the function of him not being as locked in and as focused as he normally is. "It's about the playoffs, not the regular season!" or "Dirk is declining!" Pick a lane, please. LeBron mailed in the regular season and turned it up in the playoffs last year. I'm not saying Dirk is a playoff closer on LeBron's level, but he's clearly been taking a similar approach.

[Findog]

Findog, you hanging around for the game?

Probably not. At some point, the bitter back and forth just becomes toxic, and I don't want to be the kind of person who only shows up when the Mavs are doing well. I won't be around tonight during play no matter how the game is going.

[td4mvp21]

Probably not. At some point, the bitter back and forth just becomes toxic, and I don't want to be the kind of person who only shows up when the Mavs are doing well. I won't be around tonight no matter how the game is going.

:lol Some of us might look like idiots after tonight's game, hope it's not Spurs fans :toast

[duncan228]

Probably not. At some point, the bitter back and forth just becomes toxic, and I don't want to be the kind of person who only shows up when the Mavs are doing well. I won't be around tonight no matter how the game is going.

I can see that.

Hope you enjoy it wherever you're watching it.

[Findog]

:lol Some of us might look like idiots after tonight's game, hope it's not Spurs fans :toast

Yeah, touche. I try to be cautious when it comes to predictions. I just hope that Devin and Diop aren't the decisive difference-makers some of you guys are making them out to be.

[Findog]

I can see that.

Hope you enjoy it wherever you're watching it.

Well, I'd say enjoy it too, but that means a Spurs victory :p:

But you know what I mean.

[Ghost Writer]

I was impressed with Oberto's defense on Dirk last night. He moved rather well.

I think the primary defender on Dirk moving forward should be Udoka.





P.S.

Dirk himself admits that S-Jax frustrated the hell out of him in the GS upset over DAL last playoffs.

[sribb43]

TP the Dirk stopper..put a PG on Dirk and he shoots fadeaways

[wildchild]

I was impressed with Oberto's defense on Dirk last night. He moved rather well.

I really liked Oberto on Dirk yesterday.:tu
I don't know. When Robert has a quiet game why Oberto doesn't see more minutes?.

[thebigchill]

nobody can guard a herky-jerky flippity-flopper who gets EVERY call. I know manu is herky-jerky, but his game lends itself to that style. Dirk is 7 foot and flailing behind the three point line cause somebody blew on him. Gimme a fricken break. that's not basketball.

[m33p0]

tony parker. everyone else clamp down on his man. let dirk try and beat us by himself.

[mavsfan1000]

Oberto is sure quick for a big guy. He did a great job on Dirk.

[barbacoataco]

Why didn't Oberto play more against Dirk? I thought he looked better than anyone else. Oberto is an under-rated defender. He did a good job on Amare last year in the playoffs too. Also, playing Oberto against Dirk allows the Spurs to match up without going small ball.

Perhaps Pop saw what he liked with Oberto on Dirk, and decided to save it for the playoffs. In reality, if Pop did have an idea of how to play Dirk, why would he show it in the regular season?