Duncan best playoff performer of all time?

[Galileo]

Duncan best playoff winner of all time?

Tim Duncan has a playoff Win/Loss record of 91 wins and only 47 losses, a winning percentage of 65.9%

Duncan has a playoff series Win/Loss record of 22 series won and only 5 lost, a winning percentage of 81.5%

He did this in the tougher Western conference.

Question:

Is there any other player in history than can match these overall numbers? I am only talking about elite players who were considered the best player on their team and the team leader.

:fro

Spur stalk rules!!!

[StoneBuddha]

Damn, wow those numbers are pretty damn impressive. Only 5 series loses in his entire career!?! And two of those losses were by a eyelash...

I was impressed before but those numbers really put things in perspective. The man knows winning!

[adidas11]

Probably Shaq and Jordan (Post 1990)

[Galileo]

Probably Shaq and Jordan (Post 1990)

I am looking for some exact numbers. I do not have time to do all the research. Jordan is 30-7 career in playoff series, 81.1%

Duncan can tie Jordan with another NBA title this year [4-0] >>> 26-5, then two losing trips to the conference finals [2-1, 2-1], putting him at 30-7.

[MrChug]

Sorry...those numbers belong to THE SPURS TEAM, not Tim Duncan. This coming from a Duncan worshipper. It took ALOT of team, not just a little to create those numbers, seriously.

But yah...he's pretty freakin awesome.

[CubanMustGo]

I love Timmay but he's had a lot of help getting there. Best team playoff record != best iindividual playoff performer of all time.

Or, in other words, +1 to MrChug.

[duncan228]

I know a statement like "best playoff performer of all time" needs stats to back it up.
I'll leave that to others.

I know that there may never be another Jordan, with the complete owning of the league for two three-peats.

I know all about the Celtics of the sixties.

I know about the Lakers three-peat and Shaq's dominance on three teams. (I'm not counting the Suns.)

I know this is a team sport, one man cannot win it alone.

With all that said, I still think Duncan is the best ever.
He's done it four times, with different casts of characters around him each time.
He's been the dominate force of his team for a decade. On both ends of the court.
In the Duncan era the Spurs have the best winning percentage of any major sport.
Every move made in the West recently was done to try to beat Duncan.
He steps his game up when it matters most.
And on and off the court he's the classiest thing this league has seen.

I may be biased, but there's no one better in my book. :)

[dbreiden83080]

It ticks me off that Duncan will not have a legacy like the Magic Johnson's and even Larry Birds of the world because of his perceived lack of flash. He is like the Marvin Hagler of the NBA. An all time great but everyone during his day was all about Ray Leonard. Duncan is in the middle on an era he has really dominated and people don't talk about him. :pctoss

[Galileo]

It ticks me off that Duncan will not have a legacy like the Magic Johnson's and even Larry Birds of the world because of his perceived lack of flash. He is like the Marvin Hagler of the NBA. An all time great but everyone during his day was all about Ray Leonard. Duncan is in the middle on an era he has really dominated and people don't talk about him. :pctoss

I'd call Duncan the Ron Paul of the NBA.

:elephant

Both are the best!

[stretch]

He's done it four times, with different casts of characters around him each time.

He won 4 titles, but 3 of them had the same basic cast (Duncan, Manu, Parker), with a few different role players here and there, as did Jordan and many other people who won multiple titles.


I may be biased

You are. He's a top 10, probably top 5 of all time. Not ahead of Jordan by any means though.

[Cry Havoc]

He won 4 titles, but 3 of them had the same basic cast (Duncan, Manu, Parker), with a few different role players here and there, as did Jordan and many other people who won multiple titles.



You are. He's a top 10, probably top 5 of all time. Not ahead of Jordan by any means though.

Agreed. That's a VERY select list though. Being rated as the "5th best" NBA player is a slight to no one, nowhere, at any time.

With a ring this year, Duncan will have 5, and can strongly make a contention for 3rd, 4th, or 5th on the list. I don't know if we're ever going to see another player so consistently dominant at both ends of the court again. To put it another way, Duncan is not the best defender in NBA history, but he is the most consistently excellent defender I have ever seen. That alone deserves a top 10 ranking, to say nothing of his 6th, 7th, and 8th gears come playoffs (Jordan had 9 or 10 :lol), or his working knowledge of the game with an IQ that is almost unmatched.

To put it short: Dude is pimp.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

It ticks me off that Duncan will not have a legacy like the Magic Johnson's and even Larry Birds of the world because of his perceived lack of flash. He is like the Marvin Hagler of the NBA. An all time great but everyone during his day was all about Ray Leonard. Duncan is in the middle on an era he has really dominated and people don't talk about him. :pctoss
He'll get his due with time. I'd say he's more like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
I already notice a general consensus among the marginal fans, that he's the best PF of all time, and is the main guy (winning big man) other than Shaq this decade. Where like five years ago, he wasn't as appreciated (KG was on his "level" to some.) His legend will only grow.

[duncan228]

You are.

I always admit it.

I agree, he will go down as top 10 at least.
It remains to be seen how high in there he'll end up.

I'm always alone when I put Duncan above Jordan, or plenty of other players for that matter.
But I take more than Duncan's game into account, most people don't. I look at the whole package, on and off the court.

For me, there's never been a player like him and I don't think there ever will be.

Oh, and as far as the big three being on 3 of the Title teams...Parker and Manu were not the players they are now in the '03 run. The role players changed and Parker and Manu's contributions changed (granted, for the better.)
Duncan is the constant.

[duncan228]

I don't know if we're ever going to see another player so consistently dominant at both ends of the court again.

...or his working knowledge of the game with an IQ that is almost unmatched.

I don't think we'll ever see another one like him.
But I guess I've said that already. :spin

[stretch]

Agreed. That's a VERY select list though. Being rated as the "5th best" NBA player is a slight to no one, nowhere, at any time.

With a ring this year, Duncan will have 5, and can strongly make a contention for 3rd, 4th, or 5th on the list. I don't know if we're ever going to see another player so consistently dominant at both ends of the court again. To put it another way, Duncan is not the best defender in NBA history, but he is the most consistently excellent defender I have ever seen. That alone deserves a top 10 ranking, to say nothing of his 6th, 7th, and 8th gears come playoffs (Jordan had 9 or 10 :lol), or his working knowledge of the game with an IQ that is almost unmatched.

To put it short: Dude is pimp.
Agreed.

And I've always said it, that the only player I would MAYBE consider building a team around before Michael Jordan, would be Tim Duncan.

[phxspurfan]

MJ, all day
<-------

[Cry Havoc]

Agreed.

And I've always said it, that the only player I would MAYBE consider building a team around before Michael Jordan, would be Tim Duncan.

How about:

PG: ____
SG: Michael Jordan
SF: ____
PF: Tim Duncan
C: ____

You could have the third cousin of Richard Simmons playing Center for that team and still bring home NBA Titles. I like it.

[stretch]

I look at the whole package, on and off the court.

Off the court has nothing to do with how good of a player they are.


Duncan is the constant.

So was Jordan. Pippen was a mere role-player as well, that played and developed into an all-star level player because of Jordan, much in the same way Duncan helped Manu and Parker develop and play like all-star caliber players, despite truly being role players.

[stretch]

How about:

PG: ____
SG: Michael Jordan
SF: ____
PF: Tim Duncan
C: ____

You could have the third cousin of Richard Simmons playing Center for that team and still bring home NBA Titles. I like it.
That's about all you need is those two. The rest of the team could consist of Mark Madsen, Ryan Bowen, and Shawn Bradley, and they would still beat the hell out of everyone.

[duncan228]

Off the court has nothing to do with how good of a player they are.

I didn't say it did.
And I said that's why I'm usually alone in how I look at it.
For me this game is more than digital stats, more than just on court performance.
In Duncan I found a player who has all of that and then some.
It made the difference for me.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'd agree with the notion that Tim Duncan will be more widely appreciated when he retires and he's no longer the source of derision as the face of a team that so many seem to despise.

[stretch]

I didn't say it did.
And I said that's why I'm usually alone in how I look at it.
For me this game is more than digital stats, more than just on court performance.
In Duncan I found a player who has all of that and then some.
It made the difference for me.
Good for you. Still has nothing to do with how good of a player he is.

[Galileo]

Bill Russell in playoffs: [I was not able to see what games Russell missed, so I included all Boston games. Russell missed 2 playoff games in his career.]

Series

27 wins, 2 losses >>> 93.1% TD; 22-5, 81.5%

108 games won, 59 lost >>> 64.7% TD; 91-47, 65.9%

Duncan has a better W/L percentage in playoff games than BILL RUSSELL!!

Duncan has to only go 17-12 to tie Russell. Doable.

[duncan228]

Good for you. Still has nothing to do with how good of a player he is.

Thanks. I'm quite happy in my Duncan appreciation.

And we established he'll go down as top ten. :)

[ancestron]

Duncan's pretty good.

[Galileo]

Another thing to consider. Since 1989, the Spurs have had only ONE lottery pick, that's it, only ONE.

And that player was Tim Duncan.

[FromWayDowntown]

Bill Russell in playoffs: [I was not able to see what games Russell missed, so I included all Boston games. Russell missed 2 playoff games in his career.]

Series

27 wins, 2 losses >>> 93.1% TD; 22-5, 81.5%

108 games won, 59 lost >>> 64.7% TD; 91-47, 65.9%

Duncan has a better W/L percentage in playoff games than BILL RUSSELL!!

Duncan has to only go 17-12 to tie Russell. Doable.

ROBERT HORRY

Series

37 wins, 8 losses -- 82.2%

149 games won, 82 lost -- 64.5%

[duncan228]

Nice FWD.
And Horry's got Duncan beat bad in the ring count.

[Galileo]

ROBERT HORRY

Series

37 wins, 8 losses -- 82.2%

149 games won, 82 lost -- 64.5%

"I am only talking about elite players who were considered the best player on their team and the team leader."

And Duncan has Horry beat on game w/l percentage:

65.9% > 64.5%

[stevenger]

Tim Duncan is NBA history's best power forward. He is one of the best play off player of NBA history.

[stretch]

Thanks. I'm quite happy in my Duncan appreciation.

And we established he'll go down as top ten. :)
Indeed.

[Allanon]

Yup, I pick Big Shot Rob as the greatest Playoff Performer of all time too.

Duncan's no slouch but his stats between regular season and Playoffs isn't that much. He definitely plays better during the Playoffs but you always expect him to play well anyways. He doesn't ramp it up just for the Playoffs.

That said, I still think Ducan is the greatest Power Forward of all time.

[remingtonbo2001]

Jordan.

He's the only player I know of that could take over an entire series, then another, and another. I don't think, in today's atmosphere, Jordan could repeat what he did during the 90's. Some of the shit he pulled was rediculous.

Duncan is all about the team and making his teamates better.
Jordan didn't care about making his teamates better, he just wanted to win.

[gmartin02]

"I am only talking about elite players who were considered the best player on their team and the team leader."

And Duncan has Horry beat on game w/l percentage:

65.9% > 64.5%

This brings up the question of Magic Johnson - since starting in '79-'80, most would consider him the team leader, but not necessarily the best plater until a couple of years later. It has also been argued that Kareem was already seemingly on the decline or at least disinterested until Magic came along (Magic had the tendency to make everyone around him much better and more enthusiastic, and anyone who watched him play a lot of games was probably impressed with his phenomenal court vision and super creative passing).

Anyway - for what it is worth (maybe not much) - here are Magic's numbers since he came into the league (NOT including the 1996 "comeback" series, which the Lakers lost in the first round - 3 games to one):

Series record: 32-7 (82.1%) - Note: Injured in '89 finals for last 2 games
Playoff games record: 127-59 (68.3%)

Pretty impressive #s - although so are Duncan's - Duncan is probably the most underrated superstar of all time - With Magic or Duncan on your team (and a decent supporting cast) you see what can happen

[MrChug]

It ticks me off that Duncan will not have a legacy like the Magic Johnson's and even Larry Birds of the world because of his perceived lack of flash. He is like the Marvin Hagler of the NBA. An all time great but everyone during his day was all about Ray Leonard. Duncan is in the middle on an era he has really dominated and people don't talk about him. :pctoss

A Marvin Hagler reference. I've officially become a dbreiden83080 fan. :clap

[ata]

He won 4 titles, but 3 of them had the same basic cast (Duncan, Manu, Parker), with a few different role players here and there, as did Jordan and many other people who won multiple titles.



You are. He's a top 10, probably top 5 of all time. Not ahead of Jordan by any means though.
+Bowen

[m33p0]

its ironic that many would shoot down the notion of duncan being a top 10 all time because of his lack of stats forgetting that this is because tim is such an excellent teammate.

[Magic_Johnson]

This brings up the question of Magic Johnson - since starting in '79-'80, most would consider him the team leader, but not necessarily the best plater until a couple of years later. It has also been argued that Kareem was already seemingly on the decline or at least disinterested until Magic came along (Magic had the tendency to make everyone around him much better and more enthusiastic, and anyone who watched him play a lot of games was probably impressed with his phenomenal court vision and super creative passing).

Anyway - for what it is worth (maybe not much) - here are Magic's numbers since he came into the league (NOT including the 1996 "comeback" series, which the Lakers lost in the first round - 3 games to one):

Series record: 32-7 (82.1%) - Note: Injured in '89 finals for last 2 games
Playoff games record: 127-59 (68.3%)

Pretty impressive #s - although so are Duncan's - Duncan is probably the most underrated superstar of all time - With Magic or Duncan on your team (and a decent supporting cast) you see what can happen

:toast
Magic and Duncan have the same mentallity on the court. They make their teamnate better.
Well i'm not sure but I read Duncan favourite player (and mine) was Magic so...

[Loose Cannon]

Duncan is the second best player in NBA history _right now_ and has a shot at #1 with a few more rings.

The whole, written in stone "Jordan is and always will be the best ever" is fucking stupid. It's like our generation's version of our grandparents saying that Sammy Baugh is the best QB ever and these new-fangled "throwing" QBs, with their helmets made out of something other than leather, will never catch the immortal Sammy Baugh.

One of these days I hope the media and fan collective finally grows the balls to challenge the "untouchable" perception of Jordan.

[honestfool84]

Sorry...those numbers belong to THE SPURS TEAM, not Tim Duncan. This coming from a Duncan worshipper. It took ALOT of team, not just a little to create those numbers, seriously.

But yah...he's pretty freakin awesome.


but tim duncan was the cornerstone of all those teams (well, except maybe before the year 2000)

-David

[honestfool84]

Nice FWD.
And Horry's got Duncan beat bad in the ring count.

i honestly think duncan has a legitimate chance to catch him, or at least get to seven.

-David

[honestfool84]

Duncan is the second best player in NBA history _right now_ and has a shot at #1 with a few more rings.

The whole, written in stone "Jordan is and always will be the best ever" is fucking stupid. It's like our generation's version of our grandparents saying that Sammy Baugh is the best QB ever and these new-fangled "throwing" QBs, with their helmets made out of something other than leather, will never catch the immortal Sammy Baugh.

One of these days I hope the media and fan collective finally grows the balls to challenge the "untouchable" perception of Jordan.


hmm.
i love duncan, but i don't think that he can legitimately be labeled the second best player in nba history; maybe the second best player in the nba right now, but i don't think about in history..

-David

[Mitch Cumsteen]

The most amazing fact about Duncan is that he's been able to win rings with a completely different set of teammates for the same franchise. In the history of the league, only Bill Russell can claim that. Jordan never won a title without Pippen. Magic never won a title without Kareem. Bird always had McHale and Parish.

To me, it's what separates Duncan from his contemporaries -- his ability to adapt to different teammates and changes in the league over time. He's been able to win with a power lineup with Robinson, and then he's been able to mesh with Parker's and Ginobili's up tempo game. He's the ultimate teammate and winner, and the most consistently dominant defensive force in the game. I really hope he gets at least 2 more rings so he can pass Magic. He would have be in the top 3 of all-time after that with Jordan and Russell.

[SAGambler]

I agree that Duncan is pretty damn good. But as to those percentages, what are Tony and Manus? Got to be greater than Duncans, simply because they have been here for 3 of the Championships. Manu especially. Since he joined the team after Parker.

[SAGambler]

Duncan is the second best player in NBA history _right now_ and has a shot at #1 with a few more rings.

The whole, written in stone "Jordan is and always will be the best ever" is fucking stupid. It's like our generation's version of our grandparents saying that Sammy Baugh is the best QB ever and these new-fangled "throwing" QBs, with their helmets made out of something other than leather, will never catch the immortal Sammy Baugh.

One of these days I hope the media and fan collective finally grows the balls to challenge the "untouchable" perception of Jordan.

That's pretty well stated. Of course to look at "the best ever" means you also have to "look at the competition". Athletes of today are bigger, stronger, faster, than their peers of old.

I've been around a while, and believe me, there were guys who were heroes in the forties and fifties, that could even make a semi-pro team today.

All the greats....Ruth, Mantle, Baugh, Starr...These guys could not compete with todays athletes. Look at golf. All the great ones through the years. Yet when all is said and done, Tiger Woods will break every record they held. And the day will come when one greater than Tiger will live.

Every era and every generation will have their "best ever" in every sport. It doesn't mean these guys weren't great...they were...in their time and place in history.

You simple can't compare "greatest of olden times" to "greatest of today". Too many factors have changed.

Just as Duncan may be the greastest today, in 25 or 50 years, there will be other players come along that the Duncan >=< arguments will take place among fans.

Just realize all these guys have given us memories in our generation. Without them, life would have been a lot duller.

[Galileo]

This brings up the question of Magic Johnson - since starting in '79-'80, most would consider him the team leader, but not necessarily the best plater until a couple of years later. It has also been argued that Kareem was already seemingly on the decline or at least disinterested until Magic came along (Magic had the tendency to make everyone around him much better and more enthusiastic, and anyone who watched him play a lot of games was probably impressed with his phenomenal court vision and super creative passing).

Anyway - for what it is worth (maybe not much) - here are Magic's numbers since he came into the league (NOT including the 1996 "comeback" series, which the Lakers lost in the first round - 3 games to one):

Series record: 32-7 (82.1%) - Note: Injured in '89 finals for last 2 games
Playoff games record: 127-59 (68.3%)

Pretty impressive #s - although so are Duncan's - Duncan is probably the most underrated superstar of all time - With Magic or Duncan on your team (and a decent supporting cast) you see what can happen

Not sure why you would not count the comeback season.

Series record: 32-8

Magic 80% < 81.5% Duncan

Games record

128-62

67.4%

[AFBlue]

Numbers don't describe "best playoff performer of all time", because there's too many intangibles....like clutch shooting.

Does Duncan have ONE highlight from any of the championships where he hit a game-winner. I understand all the stats and I CERTAINLY think the man turns it up for the playoffs....he is a BEAST.

But, considering the intangibles I find it hard NOT to go for Jordan. That's just my opinion though, and I have no stats to back it up.