Why was Kidd on the bench at the end?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I don't understand Avery.

Kidd might not be a great shooter, but you're trying to tell me he couldn't have set something up for anyone?


I'm not complaining, but wtf

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Yea I was left dumbfounded after that move as well.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Didn't you hear Doug Collins? Kidd is the greatest ever. Putting him on the bench was the best place for him to help the team succeed. :lol

[ludda]

HAHA, whats the point of getting this supposed "closer" if you're going to go with Terry and Stackhouse instead.

HAHAHAHA I laughed my ass of. We would have won anyways, but Avery is an idiot.

[SouthernFried]

I would have preferred him in the game. The Mavs scored on basically 1 on 1 plays. Kidd had a few nice assists early...then the Mavs persona shined through. They have tons of individual talent, tons of great shooters, and a lotta quickness. That's what made it such a great game...not Kidd.

[ducks]

I don't understand Avery.

Kidd might not be a great shooter, but you're trying to tell me he couldn't have set something up for anyone?


I'm not complaining, but wtf
kidd can not shoot that is why

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Didn't you hear Doug Collins? Kidd is the greatest ever. Putting him on the bench was the best place for him to help the team succeed. :lol


:lol




The people over at the Mavs board seem to want Avery fired more than ever.

Can't say I really blame them, but I'll totally take the W :toast

[sribb43]

Avery is an fucking idiot. im surprised he didnt just put devean george at the point in that situation. you shouldnt have the ball in JET's hands, he should be spotting up while Kidd and Dirk work the pick and roll. that allows kidd to see the floor and make the decisions...instead fucking avery is joke. his love affair with Stack was more important than playing Kidd

[jmard5]

Surprised here also, but probably Avery didn't want the Spurs to let Kidd take his jump shot.

Kidd's got a good basketball IQ that he might have set up a play. Weird decision though.

[sribb43]

avery must have mistaken the light skinned point guard as JJ Barea, thats the reason why he took him out of the game

[MagnusKrauss]

maybe all the mavs players wanted kidd as coach so they sent him to the bench.

poor avery.

[SouthernFried]

Mavs fans are idiots trying to lay blame on anyone. This was as close as you can get. Kidd is prolly the best fast break passer in the league...not in half court tho. He is no Nash, or even Parker who can drive the lane and find an open man. Dallas had their best 1 on 1 players on the court, and Terry's shot was a good one, Bowens block was just better...he may have even fouled him.

Tho I'm happen with the outcome, at the start of the play I woulda preferred Kidd on the floor

[GSH]

I tried to give him the benefit of a doubt. I thought they might be running a set play that they have practiced all year, and Kidd wasn't as familiar with it. But noooo.... That has to be one of the most ignorant coaching decisions of the season.

And for those of you saying Kidd can't shoot - I'd take my chances with him in the clutch. Not to mention the fact that he can get someone else a chip-shot. Or that he is capable of picking up an offensive rebound and getting a putback.

If I were Mark Cuban I'd die A.J.'s hair blue and hang him from my rear-view mirror like a troll doll.

Edit: If I were Mark Cuban? Echhh! That thought may keep me awake tonight.

[sribb43]

Mavs fans are idiots trying to lay blame on anyone. This was as close as you can get. Kidd is prolly the best fast break passer in the league...not in half court tho. He is no Nash, or even Parker who can drive the lane and find an open man. Dallas had their best 1 on 1 players on the court, and Terry's shot was a good one, Bowens block was just better...he may have even fouled him.

As a Spurs fan...I woulda preferred Kidd on the floor

come on now.....29 other coach's in this league would have had Kidd on the floor with the ball in his hands

[ChuckD]

On a final play, you want as many shooters on the floor as possible. Kidd doesn't qualify.

You didn't see that brick he put up like 2-3 possessions earlier? It was from like 12 feet and drew the heavy iron.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Avery was stupid. Who cares if Kidd's jumpshot is iffy.

He could have opened a lot of looks or had the Spurs dare him to shoot and gamble on an overtime from Kidd, now Kidd has to bite his lip about being insulted when he should be involved in clutch situations.

just sayin'...

as a Spurs fan I was laughing when they showed Kidd on the bench. Did you see the many blown opportunities by the Mavs? they looked clueless on offense

[SouthernFried]

29 other coaches have never won championships...

Not dissing Kidd, but Dallas strength's are their great shooters and 1 on 1 players. Kidd helps them on fast breaks, but, in half court...Dallas players like going 1 on 1. And for Dallas, that is not a jibe...they're damn good at it.

Bass impressed on his 1 on 1 moves tonight as well. He's gonna be a good fit.

[sribb43]

On a final play, you want as many shooters on the floor as possible. Kidd doesn't qualify.

i understand what your saying but then why was Dampier on the floor, you need someone to run the offense and Damp doesnt qualify....what good does a bunch of shooters do if no one is there to get the ball in their hands

[MarceloM!]

Who knows? a win is a win... that is a Dallas problem.... go spurs go


------------------------------------------------------
MANU T-SHIRTS & GIFTS
http://www.cafepress.com/tshirtmaster/3077393

[sribb43]

Avery was stupid. Who cares if Kidd's jumpshot is iffy.

He could have opened a lot of looks or had the Spurs dare him to shoot and gamble on an overtime from Kidd, now Kidd has to bite his lip about being insulted when he should be involved in clutch situations.

just sayin'...

as a Spurs fan I was laughing when they showed Kidd on the bench. Did you see the many blown opportunities by the Mavs? they looked clueless on offense

exactly...kidd is their to calm things down. it was way to hectic that last 30 sec

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

On a final play, you want as many shooters on the floor as possible. Kidd doesn't qualify.

You didn't see that brick he put up like 2-3 possessions earlier? It was from like 12 feet and drew the heavy iron.

Because when I think of shooters, I definitely think of Erica Dampier....

[vander]

because he's old and had already played 35 minutes. he was too tired :sleep

[Slydragon]

I think he was scared Kidd would try some crazy pass and turn it over because the Mavs are not used to him yet, He did have a few turn overs today.

[dbreiden83080]

I think it was his shooting but he should have been in there.

[cherylsteele]

exactly...kidd is their to calm things down. it was way to hectic that last 30 sec
If he was there to calm things down, that would be the time they needed that the most. It shouldn't matter if he is new to the team, Kidd has to be in there in crunch time.

[remingtonbo2001]

Tell me why Dallas let Steve Nash go and I think you'll find your answer.

[Holt's Cat]

Tell me why Dallas let Steve Nash go and I think you'll find your answer.

Because he was "old."

[GSH]

A.J. on TNT whining like a baby. They asked why Kidd was on the bench at the end, and he said he wanted to spread the floor with all his shooters. (Damp?) He said the Mavs ran a great play, but Nowitzki "got his shirt pulled a couple of times".

Kenny and Barkley just bitch-slapped him about having Kidd on the bench. Both said that if you're going to have Kidd on the bench in crunch time, there was no reason to make a trade like that.

Sorry, but with all the calls the Mavs got tonight, for A.J. to be whining about Dirk getting his shirt pulled at the end just shows that the Mav's biggest problem is the coach. He was stupid for pulling Kidd. And that shirt-pulling comment is the mark of a loser. It was a close game all the way, and making excuses like that just makes him look weak.

[mattyc]

Kidd didn't look all that pleased either. Aw.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

well, that's for Avery to explain to Kidd. Good luck. :lol

As for Avery wanting to spread the floor, I didn't see ANY attempt to set up for a possible three, the Spurs played them knowing they were going for a tie and both Dirk and Terry made it pretty obvious.

[Shank]

What the fuck, Avery? What are you doing?

Not only did you blow it by not having Kidd out there at the end, but now you have Avery pulling this unnecessary power trip by not having him out there. Kidd has to be wondering what the hell he was brought here to do. Even if they don't put up the game-winning/tying shot with that last attempt, I guarantee they would have at least had a better CHANCE with Kidd out there.

It's shit like this that has Mavs fans, and now some media, questioning the value of Avery in Dallas.

[SenorSpur]

A.J. on TNT whining like a baby. They asked why Kidd was on the bench at the end, and he said he wanted to spread the floor with all his shooters. (Damp?) He said the Mavs ran a great play, but Nowitzki "got his shirt pulled a couple of times".

Kenny and Barkley just bitch-slapped him about having Kidd on the bench. Both said that if you're going to have Kidd on the bench in crunch time, there was no reason to make a trade like that.

Sorry, but with all the calls the Mavs got tonight, for A.J. to be whining about Dirk getting his shirt pulled at the end just shows that the Mav's biggest problem is the coach. He was stupid for pulling Kidd. And that shirt-pulling comment is the mark of a loser. It was a close game all the way, and making excuses like that just makes him look weak.

And all the Mavs fans are "wringing their hands" in disgust for that move too. Avery will be roundly criticized for weeks for this move - and he should be.

[Herschel Walker]

29 other coaches have never won championships...

Not dissing Kidd, but Dallas strength's are their great shooters and 1 on 1 players. Kidd helps them on fast breaks, but, in half court...Dallas players like going 1 on 1. And for Dallas, that is not a jibe...they're damn good at it.

Bass impressed on his 1 on 1 moves tonight as well. He's gonna be a good fit.

Let's see:

Phil J - 9 titles
Pop - 4 titles
Riley - 4 titles

Avery - 1 finals choke of all chokes

[K-State Spur]

He could have opened a lot of looks or had the Spurs dare him to shoot and gamble on an overtime from Kidd, now Kidd has to bite his lip about being insulted when he should be involved in clutch situations.


Kidd is tremendous at finding the open man, better than anybody else in the league (still). But he is no longer the type of PG who can create open looks for other players.

[Spurminator]

If you have one play left and you're down by a basket, you put your five best players on the floor.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Kidd is tremendous at finding the open man, better than anybody else in the league (still). But he is no longer the type of PG who can create open looks for other players.
AJ should remember that he was on the floor once with a game winning shot, and God knows how much he couldn't shoot to save his life.

[K-State Spur]

I agree that he should have been on the floor. But he's still not a guy who is going to get anybody else open looks. However, if they are open at all, he'll find them.

[50 cent]

What I find really fantastic is that the Mavs traded 2 of their youngest, most athletic players that gave us fits and mortgaged the future of the franchise for a guy they have to bench at the most crucial part of the game because he is such a liability in the half court set.

[gmanrulz]

Avery is an fucking idiot.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I'm sure they won't bench Kidd again. Avery's forced to play him for the next last minute play they have called in whatever game comes up next.

Future game in Crunchtime: Kidd for the brick!

I love it, Catch-22 for Avery. :lmao

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

A.J. on TNT whining like a baby. They asked why Kidd was on the bench at the end, and he said he wanted to spread the floor with all his shooters. (Damp?) He said the Mavs ran a great play, but Nowitzki "got his shirt pulled a couple of times".

Kenny and Barkley just bitch-slapped him about having Kidd on the bench. Both said that if you're going to have Kidd on the bench in crunch time, there was no reason to make a trade like that.

Sorry, but with all the calls the Mavs got tonight, for A.J. to be whining about Dirk getting his shirt pulled at the end just shows that the Mav's biggest problem is the coach. He was stupid for pulling Kidd. And that shirt-pulling comment is the mark of a loser. It was a close game all the way, and making excuses like that just makes him look weak.


Avery has always been a sell out, a loser, and whiner. Some people just can't past him hitting a jumper once in the Finals.

[Emeyin]

Why you all mad at Avery? He gave the Spurs the sure win tonight with that decision.

[50 cent]

Avery is a fucking crybaby. I can't believe we retired his sorry ass jersey.

[ludda]

No one's "mad" at Avery, just commenting on how he's always been overhyped as a coach, this Kidd decision completely cemented it.

I found it hilarious and knew immediately that everyone watching would be up in arms in puzzlement about it.

[m33p0]

come on now.....29 other coach's in this league would have had Kidd on the floor with the ball in his hands
correction.... 25.

[T Park]

Going to the "Dirk got his jersey tugged a couple times" is weak.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Going to the "Dirk got his jersey tugged a couple times" is weak.


oh well.......at least he didn't bring up our "bear hug defense"

[mob]

i hate that faggot

[duncan228]

Going to the "Dirk got his jersey tugged a couple times" is weak.

Duncan was getting so mauled in the first quarter his jersey was untucked until he could tuck it in at the line.

[GSH]

I have always thought the similarities were uncanny between Avery Johnson coaching the Mavs and Barry Switzer coaching the Cowboys. Both took over extremely talented teams, and both managed to screw it up by getting out-coached, and making stupid decisions. The only difference is, Switzer did manage to get one championship.

Jason Kidd has to be wondering what kind of unlucky star he was born under. To have gone through a 47 minute battle like that one and spend the last minute riding the bench. And then to have the coach say that the difference in the game was a shirt-pull? You know he must think about the opportunity he had to come to SA a few years ago.

[I know this doesn't have anything to do with anything, but seriously... if you put a Don King wig on A.J., and dyed it blue, wouldn't he look like a little troll doll?]

[Findog]

I don't understand Avery.

Kidd might not be a great shooter, but you're trying to tell me he couldn't have set something up for anyone?


I'm not complaining, but wtf

I believe Avery called 60 Stretch FarLaaaaaaaaahh

[Findog]

Avery strikes me more and more like a Mike Fratello type. He's wound too tight, and that filters down to the players. We still have two more seasons after this one. Time will tell if Avery is a part of it. Dirk deserves the most blame for the exit at the hands of Golden State, but Avery's done a terrible job the last two series. Cuban traded Harris because he felt he couldn't wait around while a young and promising player matured. And make no mistake, Avery will be coaching in this League an awful long time, but I'm beginning to think that maybe he is in the same category as the PG he couldn't learn to trust, he has some growing up of his own to do.

Larry Brown is currently playing shuffleboard and eating at IHOP at 4 o'clock in the afternoon.

[Obstructed_View]

That was really really stupid on AJ's part. Kidd is supposed to be the decision maker and leader the Mavs were lacking. That's pretty hard to do from the bench. I can't think of many coaches in the league that would rather have Jason Terry handling the ball at the end of a close game than Jason Kidd.

I agree with Mavfan. AJ is definitely an fucking idiot.

[Findog]

To have any credibility with his team, Avery needs to apologize for making a bad decision and take responsibility for this loss, instead of blaming the refs. You're not getting a borderline call on the road at the end of a game, unless you're Dwyane Wade.

[Obstructed_View]

To have any credibility with his team, Avery needs to apologize for making a bad decision and take responsibility for this loss, instead of blaming the refs.
AJ's not likely to get better treatment from the officials in any road game than he did tonight. He took a big fat gamble and it blew up in his face. He should definitely apologize to the team, and the fans may eat him alive for it regardless.


You're not getting a borderline call on the road at the end of a game, unless you're Dwyane Wade.
Or you're Dirk Nowitzki and you step on Tim Duncan's foot with a minute to go in a road playoff game. It's not exactly shocking that AJ would expect to get calls any time he wants them in San Antonio. There's certainly some history to back it up.

[GSH]

To have any credibility with his team, Avery needs to apologize for making a bad decision and take responsibility for this loss, instead of blaming the refs. You're not getting a borderline call on the road at the end of a game, unless you're Dwyane Wade.

The night they retired DRob's jersey, A.J. got up and spoke. And he talked as much about himself as he did about David. His pride isn't going to let him apologize about this or anything else. Just like the comments he made during the playoff last year... it's the ref's fault, it's the players' fault... but not A.J.'s fault.

Cuban was pissed when A.J. got that tech earlier in the game. I didn't catch his reaction to the substitution at the end. But Kidd sure as hell wasn't happy with it. And neither was Mario Elie. I think you're right, Findog. He loses credibility on this one if he can't swallow his pride and call it a bad decision. But nothing about his history makes me think he would ever do it.

[inconvertible]

Be Cuz He Just Fukin Got To Dallas A Week A Go!

[Obstructed_View]

Be Cuz He Just Fukin Got To Dallas A Week A Go!
And he had 40 assists in his first three games.

He was brought here to be their closer and their leader. You could bring him out of the stands in street clothes and he can make better end of game decisions than most of the players in the NBA, particularly ones named Terry or Stackhouse.

I still maintain the Mavs were stupid to trade for him, but there is ZERO excuse for benching Jason Kidd at the end of a game where you need a bucket. None. If you are worried about his jumper then put him in the post and let him draw a double team. His strength is his ability to make decisions when necessary. That has nothing to do with matchups or shooting ability. AJ fucked up. Bad.

[phxspurfan]

And he had 40 assists in his first three games.

He was brought here to be their closer and their leader. You could bring him out of the stands in street clothes and he can make better end of game decisions than most of the players in the NBA, particularly ones named Terry or Stackhouse.

I still maintain the Mavs were stupid to trade for him, but there is ZERO excuse for benching Jason Kidd at the end of a game where you need a bucket. None. If you are worried about his jumper then put him in the post and let him draw a double team. His strength is his ability to make decisions when necessary. That has nothing to do with matchups or shooting ability. AJ fucked up. Bad.



I'll cast my hat in the ring and agree that this is very true. We were fortunate to be on the good side of, what I think is, a lame attempt at emulating CIA-pop type attitude by AJ. When I saw Kidd get taken out, I thought that this was AJ's way of getting Kidd riled up to perform when the games really mattered (playoffs). If this was an honest, strategic move, it was a bad mistake. True, Kidd is not as great a percentage shooter as Terry or Stack. But, to bench him, the player your organization game so much up (youth at the most important spots in your lineup) for to get, is quite the statement. He is one of the most clutch players on the Mavs -- a team that is the antithesis of the word.

Kidd needs to be out there in crunch time in the future. If Avery doesn't know that, he's toast as a head coach. Stars win big games.

[Obstructed_View]

No wonder the Mavs are a soft jump-shooting team if their coach pulls one of the top crunch time decision makers in the world so he can have more shooters on the floor. AJ's certainly more of a Nellie disciple than a Pop disciple.

[genomefreak13]

Hear it from Jason Kidd himself...


Kidd came out for the last 30 seconds, but said he supported the decision.

“They’ve been together down the stretch,” Kidd said. “I understand what play they’re looking for, so I’m over here cheering for my guys to knock down a 2 or a 3.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=An_xd_l.hROgy5shdHudopuM0bYF?gid=200802 2824&prov=ap

Kidd categorically admits that he doesn't know a shit about shooting clutch shots...No wonder he's out of the game during the final minutes.

[50 cent]

As Barkley said, Kidd is saying the right thing, but you know he think's it is bull...."

[Findog]

Or you're Dirk Nowitzki and you step on Tim Duncan's foot with a minute to go in a road playoff game.

U mad?

[Spurs Brazil]

08:58 AM CST on Friday, February 29, 2008

SAN ANTONIO – Watching the end of Thursday's game, I flashed back to something Avery Johnson said less than 10 days ago when Jason Kidd was welcomed back to Dallas.

The Mavericks coach paid tribute to Kidd like everyone else. He raved about the point guard's leadership and his ability to make big plays when they're needed most.

"He knows how to finish games," Johnson proclaimed, "and that's what we're looking for."

I guess Johnson was looking for something else Thursday night.


Down by two with 34.5 seconds left, Kidd was pulled and replaced by Jerry Stackhouse. One of the best players of his generation was reduced to a cheerleader in the final, fateful seconds of this loss to the San Antonio Spurs.

Maybe Kidd's presence wouldn't have made a difference. We'll never know. But by asserting his control at the end of the game, Johnson took the game out of Kidd's talented hands. For this to work, Johnson must learn to trust Kidd in a way he never did Devin Harris.

The irony is if this trade had not been made, Johnson likely would have had Harris on the floor at the end of Thursday's game.

The Mavericks did manage to squeeze off three shots in that final sequence. Forward Dirk Nowitzki missed two of them. Jason Terry missed the last one.

Nowitzki has been positively giddy since Kidd's arrival. He wasn't so giddy in the aftermath of this game. Was Nowitzki surprised that Kidd wasn't on the floor?

"You have to talk to coach about that," Nowitzki said.

Good idea.

What about it, coach?

"We were looking at spreading the floor with all of our shooters in the game," Johnson said. "We wanted to put Stack and Josh [Howard] and Jet [Terry], and that gave Dirk some more room to operate in those situations.

"Our spacing was good, and that is what we were doing on that particular one."

Spacing? I'd argue Johnson spaced out. The four shooters that surrounded Nowitzki on the final possession were a combined 2-of-9 in the fourth quarter.

Now, if Johnson had said that Kidd hasn't been around long enough to run the play he wanted at the end, I might understand that. Might.

"We had a couple of breakdowns there in the fourth," Johnson said. "We talked about a lot of different things. Then he had a chance to take a look at it. Jet and Dirk made some plays for us.

"Again, we just wanted to give Dirk a little bit more space. He got the space. A couple of shots just didn't go down."

Kidd doesn't walk on water. But he should at least walk on the court at the end of a tight game.

Kidd has already altered the identity of this team with his passing. But if he is to put his stamp on the Mavericks, if he does rescue this team from its postseason meltdowns of the past two seasons, it will be by what he does at the end of highly competitive games like the one played here Thursday.

"I support that move," Kidd said. "I feel like they've had that team together down the stretch. They understand the play they're looking for. And so, I'm over there cheering for my guys to knock down a two or a three."

Still, Kidd takes great pride in his ability to make plays that win games. He had to be discouraged that he wasn't in there to pull the trigger.

"I wasn't discouraged," Kidd said. "I understand and support my coach's decision. That will happen."

It shouldn't happen too often.

Kidd was only 3-of-8 from the field. He hit only one shot in the second half.

But as everyone knows, Kidd isn't special because of his shot. He had 10 assists against the Spurs, and Johnson did praise his defense on Manu Ginobili.

That's nice. But when the Mavericks' braintrust discussed the reasons to make this trade, I doubt much time was spent on Kidd's defensive prowess against Ginobili. The trade was made to give them a leader on the floor at the end of close games.

"He's going to help us because at the end of games, he just knows how to win," Johnson said at the news conference when Kidd was introduced.

Too bad Johnson didn't remember his own words Thursday.


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/basketball/mavs/stories/022908dnspomoore.1f639a0.html

[Obstructed_View]

U mad?
About that? A bit. It was Duncan's sixth foul at home in the last minute of a playoff game. It didn't cost them the series. From my standpoint, the loss in that series is firmly on Pop and the Spurs, not on a single bad call. Like I've said a thousand times, Dirk earns his fouls against smallball© when he's aggressive. The Spurs had two healthy centers that contributed to the defense on a 63 win team, and the coach completely dismantled it on the fly. That Dirk took advantage of that and went wild is just smart basketball.

It's a fact though that it happened, and there's no history to support the assertion that Dirk shouldn't expect to get any call he wants in San Antonio, and your bitterness about Dwayne Wade smells like hypocrisy when he didn't get anything Dirk hadn't gotten against the Spurs a few weeks earlier.

[T Park]

The Spurs had two healthy centers that contributed to the defense on a 63 win team,

Neither one of them, nor Duncan could guard Nowitzki either, the arguement for that in that series is wrong and tired.

[td4mvp21]

Neither one of them, nor Duncan could guard Nowitzki either, the arguement for that in that series is wrong and tired.

Prior to that, the Spurs hardly ever used small ball lineups. They lost because they weren't playing Spurs basketball. And it's amazing that they still took it to 7 games playing a completely different defensive scheme than they practiced all season. Like Obstructed View said in another thread, Duncan's going to have to learn how to guard Dirk so we can play big and play our defense.

[Obstructed_View]

Neither one of them, nor Duncan could guard Nowitzki either, the arguement for that in that series is wrong and tired.
The proof is in the outcome. The Spurs beat the Mavs until they started going small, and then they lost. The Spurs won 63 games in the regular season, went small and played .500 ball in the playoffs.

[Findog]

and your bitterness about Dwayne Wade smells like hypocrisy when he didn't get anything Dirk hadn't gotten against the Spurs a few weeks earlier.

Refs didn't cost Dallas the Finals. I've never said that they did. They officiated a one-sided game in Game 5, and that final call for Wade on Dirk was egregious, but there's three other games in that series Miami won without the aid of the refs.

[Findog]

The proof is in the outcome. The Spurs beat the Mavs until they started going small, and then they lost. The Spurs won 63 games in the regular season, went small and played .500 ball in the playoffs.

Regular season results don't matter, right? If I remember correctly, they split the season series 2-2 that year, each team getting a W on the other's court. Pop goes small against the Mavs because he doesn't feel he has anybody that can consistently guard Dirk well, and he doesn't want to risk Timmy getting into foul trouble by doing it himself, plus Dirk can take him out to the elbows or free-throw line extended and away from the basket. Against Dallas, surrounding Duncan with four wings leads to the best results offensively.

[T Park]

Against Dallas, surrounding Duncan with four wings leads to the best results offensively.

Unless you have a mobil bigman ala a Udonis Haslem, Reggie Evans type, you have to go with a long, wing player ala Stephen Jackson, to guard Dirk. That simple.

[K-State Spur]

Neither one of them, nor Duncan could guard Nowitzki either, the arguement for that in that series is wrong and tired.

I think the mistake was putting Bowen on Dirk the majority of the time. The way Dirk played in that series, didn't matter who we had on him (including Bruce), he was going off.

Would have been better off letting Bruce prevent Howard (who he could shut down) from going off as well, and just letting other guys get destroyed by Dirk.

[T Park]

I think the mistake was putting Bowen on Dirk the majority of the time. The way Dirk played in that series, didn't matter who we had on him (including Bruce), he was going off.

Would have been better off letting Bruce prevent Howard (who he could shut down) from going off as well, and just letting other guys get destroyed by Dirk.

Thats the point, they didnt have anyone that could somewhat guard him. They didn't have an Udoka, or a Haslem.

[td4mvp21]

Thats the point, they didnt have anyone that could somewhat guard him. They didn't have an Udoka, or a Haslem.

Udoka didn't do that good of a job on Dirk. I would rather Pop not put him on Dirk at all.

[xmas1997]

The more I look at it in aftermath, the more I think AJ really didn't want that trade to go down and that it was Nowitski who went to Cuban to push it to go through, possibly thinking it would make him a better player.
That said, I think the burden of the onus is on Nowitski to now step up to the plate as never before and become the killer everyone wants him to be at the end of games.
However, that will never happen since he has never shown evidence of being a killer.
Maybe reports that AJ wanted to trade Nowitski at the end of last year are true.
But I sense a rift between the coach and his marque player brewing.
This may be AJs last year in Dallas when it should probably be Nowitski who gets shipped out while Dallas can still get lots in return.

[Obstructed_View]

Regular season results don't matter, right?
When you fundamentally change the way you play with only part of your lineup having to learn to play out of position on the fly against good teams, you sure hope nobody notices the regular season record.


If I remember correctly, they split the season series 2-2 that year, each team getting a W on the other's court. Pop goes small against the Mavs because he doesn't feel he has anybody that can consistently guard Dirk well, and he doesn't want to risk Timmy getting into foul trouble by doing it himself, plus Dirk can take him out to the elbows or free-throw line extended and away from the basket. Against Dallas, surrounding Duncan with four wings leads to the best results offensively.
If I remember correctly, the second to last game between them was the big one, where the Mavericks and their fans had decided it was going to be the test of whether they were ready to beat the Spurs. The Spurs beat them pretty easily with their traditional lineup. The decision to bench the centers had more to do with Nazr hitting that three in garbage time against the Kings or Bonzi Wells playing for a contract than it did about anything basketball related. Pop had started trotting those stupid lineups out before the Mavericks or Spurs advanced to the second round. The Spurs scored 115 points per game in the first two games of the series against the Kings, and that was with their center rotation getting full minutes. Pop reduced their minutes as the playoffs went along.

Dirk might score 40 points but if the defense can keep everyone else from going off, blocking shots in the paint and not having to double team every single ball handler in order to keep them out then the Spurs have a chance. Smallball doesn't do that. Period. Therefore the Mavs shoot 75 percent in the first quarter and build an insurmountable lead. The only upside for the Spurs now is that they have experience playing small lineups and can play decent defense with it. There's really not any excuse for their having lost in 2006, but there's certainly none now if they should meet up in the playoffs.

And about your "best results offensively" comment, check to see who was in the rotation when the Spurs started the year 17-3 and were scoring a lot of points. Either Elson or Oberto were on the floor the vast majority of the time.

[Findog]

When you fundamentally change the way you play with only part of your lineup having to learn to play out of position on the fly against good teams, you sure hope nobody notices the regular season record.

So we get a ring now for the regular season. Good.



If I remember correctly, the second to last game between them was the big one, where the Mavericks and their fans had decided it was going to be the test of whether they were ready to beat the Spurs. The Spurs beat them pretty easily with their traditional lineup.

That game went down to the final two minutes, the game where Robert Horry went Mike Tyson on Jerry Stackhouse. We beat your traditional lineup the next month in San Antonio. The reason Pop went small against the Mavs was the combination of Josh and Dirk. Stick Bowen on Howard, and you risk Duncan getting into foul trouble going up against Dirk and being drawn away from the basket. If I remember correctly in that April game, you guys were killed by having Josh endlessly receive passes from Dirk at the elbow on baseline cuts. And the way it worked out, with Bowen on Dirk, Rasho/Nazr on Dampier, Manu on Terry and Parker on Harris, that left a mismatch of Duncan on Howard. The Spurs went small to match Dallas being small, because we were more athletic. Pop essentially decided that the only way he was going to beat Dallas was to outscore them.



The decision to bench the centers had more to do with Nazr hitting that three in garbage time against the Kings or Bonzi Wells playing for a contract than it did about anything basketball related.

The decision to bench the centers was because that Spurs team didn't have answers for both Josh AND Dirk, and Pop essentially went with a let's try to outscore them approach. But hey, what does Pop know? He only has four rings.


And about your "best results offensively" comment, check to see who was in the rotation when the Spurs started the year 17-3 and were scoring a lot of points. Either Elson or Oberto were on the floor the vast majority of the time


I wasn't talking about this year's Spurs team. I thought I made it clear, that against that 06 Dallas team, anyway, the Spurs were at their best offensively with Duncan and four wings. Honestly, more than Harris and Diop playing in the Least now, Udoka being a lanky forward that is the Dirk-stopper prototype and being able to stay on the floor offensively by being a good 3-point shooter, that equalizes your team against us more than anything else. Bowen is much more effective on Josh than Dirk, because his biting, kicking, flopping, slapping tactics aren't as effective on a 7-foot wing player that can shoot over him than they are a hot-headed small forward that sometimes acts like a mental midget.

[Findog]

However, that will never happen since he has never shown evidence of being a killer.
.

Whatever else can be said of Dirk's shortcomings against Miami and Golden State, Spurs fans of all people can't possibly make this claim. His anti-clutch reputation is there for a reason, but it's vastly exaggerated. Never shown evidence of being a killer? You want to rethink that a little bit?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1278/567468012_dbb3572384.jpg

The guy who dropped 50 on the Suns when his team was in danger of losing the pivotal fifth game in the conference Finals, then followed it up with a good performance in a close-out game on the road to clinch a Finals berth? Not a killer? The guy who is 5-0 in Game Sevens, and he came up clutch in four of those, that guy is not a killer? There's no getting around that he came up short against Miami* and Golden State, but that is nothing more than cherrypicking.

* He actually played very well in the final two games of the Finals and did what he was supposed to do to win games for his team. You're talking about a series in which the Heat won 3 games by a grand total of 6 points. I'm not making excuses, ultimately Miami made more plays than the Mavericks, but you're literally talking about one or two different bounces of the basketball from that series turning out very different.

I don't mind people referencing the last two playoff exits and questioning whether or not he'll ever lead his team to the promised land, but nothing gets me on the soapbox quicker than statements such as yours, which are foolish and stupid.

[DAINTX]

Dallas has at least 5 better shooters and had no problem getting looks.

[SenorSpur]

During the Mavs press conference to announce Kidd's arrival, Avery went to great lengths to "beat everyone down" with all of Kidd's attributes. He even resorted to using football analogies to describe his attributes.

"Kidd is gonna help us close out games better, close out series' better. It'll be good having a quarterback who can help us score touchdowns, when we get into the red zone."

Huh?

If you listen to his explanation of his decision, it has holes all over it. He wanted to get his shooters on the court to "open the floor up for Dirk in that situation". Well, why was Dampier on that court at that time? Why couldn't allow his PG to setup at the top, spread the shooters around the perimeter and allow Kidd to do what he does best?

Anyway, with all that said, there's only one explanation for Avery keeping Kidd on the bench. Avery is a tight-assed, egotistical, control-freak, who isn't secure enough, as a coach, to trust a superstar point guard during the waning minutes of a close ball game against a rival opponent. He's a goddamn tyrannt, who is hell bent on coaching every play of every possession, despite his claims that he'd rather not do so.

Kidd has more "skins on the wall" than Avery ever did as a player or coach. With all the national furor over this decision, he HAS NOT and WILL NOT admit that he made an error in judgement. He stands firmly and stubbornly behind his decision. In fact, he's gone so far as to blame the media for "fanning the flames" of, what he refers to as, "poisonous journalism". Give me a break!