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View Full Version : Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Bucks Mar. 1



timvp
03-02-2008, 03:38 AM
I was having major déjà vu watching the Spurs take on the Bucks in Milwaukee. Not only were the Spurs in a dogfight, like they are every year in Milwaukee, the specifics of the game were amazingly similar.

Last season, the Bucks had the lead in the third quarter when Mo Williams fouled Tony Parker, picked up two quick technical fouls and was ejected. The Bucks then turned to their third string point guard (Lynn Greer) to lead an inspired fourth quarter run which resulted in a victory.

Tonight, the Bucks had the lead in the third quarter when Mo Williams fouled Tony Parker, picked up two quick technical fouls and was ejected. The Bucks then turned to their third string point guard (Royal Ivey) to lead an inspired fourth quarter run. Luckily, this time the Spurs withstood the run and escaped with a 96-94 victory. It was the Spurs’ first victory in Milwaukee since 2004.

The Bucks actually have a few nice pieces on their team. They aren’t much of threat to do anything in the playoffs but the talent is there. If Andrew Bogut would play every game as hard as he plays against the Spurs, he wouldn’t be considered such a bust. Bogut (17 points, 15 rebound) was easily the best player on the court for the Bucks.

The thing I was happiest with about this win was the cohesiveness between Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker. This was the best combined effort we’ve seen out of the All-World backcourt since November. While Parker isn’t 100% yet, this gave a glimpse of how good the two players can be and how well they can work together. Ginobili and Parker took turns slicing up Milwaukee’s defense and applied constant pressure all game long.

Overall, it was a very nice win. The Bucks seemingly always beat the Spurs so I’ll take a victory in whatever package it wants to present itself. The first step toward the Spurs peaking after March was a success.

-Tim Duncan had his worst game in a long while. Bogut thoroughly outplayed him on both ends of the court. With Bogut being physical with Duncan and the Bucks packing the lane, Duncan never got into any sort of rhythm. In 33 minutes, Duncan finished with nine points, seven rebounds and four assists, while shooting 4-for-11 from the field. Last year when the Spurs lost to the Bucks, Duncan had a similarly bad outing (13 points on 5-for-12 shooting). Despite all the pounding Duncan took this game, he only got to the free throw line twice all night. That said, at least the refs were consistent in allowing physical play on both ends of the court. On the whole, it was a bad game by Duncan. Although I guess it’s a good sign for the team that Duncan can lay an egg on the road and the Spurs can still pull out the victory.

-Manu Ginobili is starting to play like an assassin. When the Spurs need a hoop, Ginobili has been almost automatic. The Spurs were down one with less than fifteen seconds to go in the game when Ginobili buried a leaner from about 18-feet. The shot usually would have been a highlight but as Spurs fans we’ve seen it so often recently that a clutch shot by Ginobili is almost routine. For the game, Ginobili finished with 30 points, four rebounds, four assists and three steals, while shooting 10-for-17 from the field. It was another great game for Ginobili. Now that he’s hitting jumpers in crunch time again, he’s really reminding me of how he played in the 2005 playoffs. In that playoff run, he was lights out on jumpers during crunch time. Since then he has struggled with his jumper in crunch time in both the regular season and the playoffs. However this season, he’s even more automatic than he was during the 2005 playoffs. I just hope he can keep up this level of play for the rest of the year.

-Tony Parker took a big step forward in his recovery from his ankle injury. He looked as healthy as he has since November. Parker raced up and down the court and stayed in attack mode all game long. While his poor free throw shooting, especially in the fourth quarter, was disappointing, you have to be ecstatic with how he played overall. He totaled 26 points, five assists and two rebounds, while shooting 11-for-16 from the field. Perhaps most noteworthy was the fact that he was 4-for-5 on jumpers during the game, an area he has struggled mightily in for the last couple months. In the first half I thought his defense was pathetic but he really picked in up in the second half. Obviously he’s going to have to improve his 4-for-10 shooting from the free throw line but I’m really starting to believe Parker has a chance to be 100% by the time the playoffs roll around.

-I was impressed with how Bruce Bowen defended Michael Redd. For the first 19 minutes of the game, Bowen held Redd without a basket. Redd eventually got going (he had 25 points on 8-for-19 shooting from the field) but Bowen was defending him about as well as possible. You have to tip your hat to Redd for being one of the best scorers in the league that nobody talks about. Offensively, Bowen hit a big three-pointer in the fourth quarter. He finished with six points on 2-for-6 shooting from the field to go along with six rebounds in 31 minutes. It wasn’t a great game by Bowen but it was a nice showing overall.

-Fabricio Oberto finally had a good game against a small ball team. Small ball teams have been exploiting Oberto as of late but in this contest, Oberto had the upper hand. Matched up against Charlie Villanueva, Oberto was partially responsible for Villanueva shooting 1-for-9 from the field. Oberto also made his mark on the glass, pulling down eight boards in 21 minutes of play. His offensive output on the night consisted of only two free throws but overall Oberto played a really solid game.

-Michael Finley is quietly becoming a dependable source of offense on a nightly basis. Besides Ginobili and Parker, Finley was the only other Spur to hit double-figures tonight. In 28 minutes, Finley had 11 points on 4-for-9 shooting from the field. He had a couple stretches where he turned the ball over and forced bad shots but on the whole, Finley was one of the better players for the Spurs against the Bucks.

-Ime Udoka is now playing like he has always been a part of this team. It’s barely noticeable that he’s a new player in the system. His defense was good all night and his offense was solid. For the contest, Udoka had eight points, five rebounds, one steal and one blocked shot in 19 minutes of action. On Bogut’s last second attempt to tie the game, Udoka did a good job of making it a more difficult shot.

-Damon Stoudamire had his ups and downs this game. Defensively, he was poor for most of the night. The effort was there for the most part but his lack of size hurt him. Offensively, Ivey did a good job of hounding him and making it difficult for Stoudamire to bring the ball up the court. In 17 minutes, Stoudamire scored two points, grabbed two rebounds and handed out two assists. Overall it was a sub par game for Stoudamire but I liked that he kept competing throughout.

-In 14 minutes, Robert Horry wasn’t too helpful. He had two points, two rebounds and two turnovers, while shooting 1-for-4 from the field. After going through a stretch of the season where he was hitting his shots, Horry is now just two for his last ten on his field goal attempts. However, I’ve seen enough life out of him that I hope Pop keeps him in shape for when the playoffs roll around.

-Kurt Thomas played like Wilt Chamberlain reincarnate in his first game with the Spurs but has come back down to earth over his last two outings. Against the Bucks, Thomas played nine minutes and didn’t play that well. He’s still learning the system and obviously has no chemistry with his teammates on either end of the floor. There will be some growing pains but Thomas should eventually help this team come playoff time.

-Pop coached a solid ballgame. He tried to stay big against the Bucks early on but eventually relented and went small. Going small ended up being the winning potion for the Spurs tonight.

I really like how he kept the minutes low even though it was a close game. Tony Parker led the team with 35 minutes, which should bode well heading into tomorrow’s back-to-back contest. The 33 minutes Ginobili played was the fewest minutes he’s played in a close game in over a month.

Pop gave Jacque Vaughn a DNP-CD, which could signal that Stoudamire has the backup job. More likely, however, is that Pop wants Stoudamire to get minutes now so that he can get more comfortable with his teammates.

The bottomline is the Spurs have now won eight games in a row and sit atop the Western Conference standings. For a team that looked to be in trouble not too long ago, you have to be thrilled with this turnaround. Tomorrow, the Spurs play Devin Harris and the New Jersey Nets as they try to extend the winning streak to nine.

Believe.

some_user86
03-02-2008, 03:46 AM
Believe.

Word.

Amuseddaysleeper
03-02-2008, 03:53 AM
This was a very quiet 30 for Ginobili.


It felt like he was gonna finish with 17 points or something until the announcers brought up that he had 28 at the time.


I just pray he continues to pull this off in the playoffs.

and TP looked fantastic for the most part :tu

Demo Dick Marcinko
03-02-2008, 03:54 AM
Timvp, if you wrote this piece it was remarkably well written and informative. Kudos and nice job. Thanx. :toast

Ice009
03-02-2008, 03:56 AM
I'd like to see Kurt Thomas get more court time. How is he supposed to learn to play with his new teammates if he doesn't get any court time? Does Pop just want to bring him along slowly?

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz
03-02-2008, 03:58 AM
This was a very quiet 30 for Ginobili.


It felt like he was gonna finish with 17 points or something until the announcers brought up that he had 28 at the time.


I just pray he continues to pull this off in the playoffs.

and TP looked fantastic for the most part :tu
Well it's a good start of the new month for Ginobili, I did't realize he had that much points either.

TP definitely showed glimpses of his 2007 early 2008 form. His speed seems to be returning. :clap

timvp
03-02-2008, 04:07 AM
I'd like to see Kurt Thomas get more court time. How is he supposed to learn to play with his new teammates if he doesn't get any court time? Does Pop just want to bring him along slowly?Kurt Thomas is only a good matchup against certain teams. Against small ball teams such as the Bucks, you can't play him next to Tim Duncan. Against teams that play two bigmen, Thomas will be useful.

However, this is why I was against the Thomas acquisition before the Gasol and Shaq trades. Thomas is a good player but there aren't many teams he can play against next to Duncan. Too much of the NBA utilizes small ball for Thomas to average 20-25 minutes in San Antonio.

But now that the West has gotten bigger, Thomas will be useful even if only against teams like the Lakers, Suns, Nuggets, Rockets and Jazz.

SuperManu!!!
03-02-2008, 04:12 AM
Free throws!!! We have to practices free throws!!!!!

Quasar
03-02-2008, 04:17 AM
Pop gave Jacque Vaughn a DNP-CD, which could signal that Stoudamire has the backup job. More likely, however, is that Pop wants Stoudamire to get minutes now so that he can get more comfortable with his teammates.

Nice game thoughts. I don't usually comment as there's not much that can be added, but seems there's a little mistake :) Seems like Vaughn played 5 secs:
http://www.nba.com/games/20080301/SASMIL/boxscore.html

timvp
03-02-2008, 04:19 AM
Nice game thoughts. I don't usually comment as there's not much that can be added, but seems there's a little mistake :) Seems like Vaughn played 5 secs:
http://www.nba.com/games/20080301/SASMIL/boxscore.html:lol

Good point and thanks for the correction. I forgot that Pop put in Vaughn for defense at the end of the first half.

:tu

polandprzem
03-02-2008, 04:23 AM
100% Parker will be there if ankle will be there 6 weeks after, not-so-much-big break is enough time to be in full speed.

Now, the spurs must to make back up PG stable position, learn Thomas a system.
Give a shot to Barry and devide minutes between him and Udoka.
If Finley will stay hot, more time for Udoka as a reserve.

whottt
03-02-2008, 04:33 AM
I'm interested in hearing your opinion on Udoka's D now that you feel he's integrated himself into the team.

some_user86
03-02-2008, 04:37 AM
I'm interested in hearing your opinion on Udoka's D now that you feel he's integrated himself into the team.

It's written right there:


-Ime Udoka is now playing like he has always been a part of this team. It’s barely noticeable that he’s a new player in the system. His defense was good all night and his offense was solid. For the contest, Udoka had eight points, five rebounds, one steal and one blocked shot in 19 minutes of action. On Bogut’s last second attempt to tie the game, Udoka did a good job of making it a more difficult shot.

whottt
03-02-2008, 04:44 AM
I'm not asking how it was tonight...

some_user86
03-02-2008, 04:45 AM
I'm not asking how it was tonight...

You never specified...

timvp
03-02-2008, 04:45 AM
I'm interested in hearing your opinion on Udoka's D now that you feel he's integrated himself into the team.He's easily the second best perimeter defender on the team next to Bowen, but that has been the case for a while now. I think he's a really good defender but there is still a drop off when you go from Bowen to Udoka. The one area defensively where Udoka is better than Bowen is using his strength to keep players from rebounding the ball.

Overall I rate him quite highly but he still has room for improvement. His team rotations aren't great as of yet and he isn't as relentless defensively as he needs to be.

whottt
03-02-2008, 05:07 AM
You never specified...


Well, since timvp mentioned how his D was tonight I didn't think I had to...


And I'd say that the phrase, "now that he's integrated himself into the team" implies overall defense on a game to game basis.

whottt
03-02-2008, 05:10 AM
He's easily the second best perimeter defender on the team next to Bowen, but that has been the case for a while now. I think he's a really good defender but there is still a drop off when you go from Bowen to Udoka. The one area defensively where Udoka is better than Bowen is using his strength to keep players from rebounding the ball.

I think his strenght is post defense, I haven't been that crazy about his perimeter d.

But like you said...Bruce Bowen he aint. Still...he's got a better offensive game than Bruce.





Overall I rate him quite highly but he still has room for improvement. His team rotations aren't great as of yet and he isn't as relentless defensively as he needs to be.


I don't think he's ever going to have the relentlessness of oh say...Bruce Bown...I think that's what makes Bruce, Bruce. I see him more as kind of an emotional guy...who will defend better when he's pissed off.


I was interested in your opinion of his rotations as that's probably the hardest thing for me to observe...

Hoy
03-02-2008, 05:16 AM
Tim, ugh, looked bad. No energy, whining to refs, hands of stone, gets out hustled as a matter of a course. Missing defensive rotation. Tim dominating opposition post player is infrequent now.

SouthernFried
03-02-2008, 05:17 AM
Yeah, I was pissed at Pop early when we seemed to be getting killed on the boards...for not playing Thomas more.

Well, he does seem to know what he's doing.

But, he shoulda sat Duncan too ;)


Good job Tim...as usual.

WalterBenitez
03-02-2008, 05:29 AM
Thanks TIMVP

I slept during the game :D so your recap is useful, I am glad we got this one; moral victories doesn't count but this one is important for spirit, we got our moments there.

Good game for Manu, and I am gratefull TP is back to the next-big-thing-in-town level, effort team, and also that new kids on the block are doing well.

timvp
03-02-2008, 05:31 AM
I don't think he's ever going to have the relentlessness of oh say...Bruce Bown...I think that's what makes Bruce, Bruce. I see him more as kind of an emotional guy...who will defend better when he's pissed off.Yeah, he's much more Mario Elie than Bruce Bowen. Hopefully he can learn some of Bowen's tricks before Bowen retires. At least it appears that the Spurs finally have a guy who can somewhat follow in Bowen's footsteps one day.


I was interested in your opinion of his rotations as that's probably the hardest thing for me to observe...I'd give his rotations probably a C+ to B-. But even Bowen wasn't a good team defender until his second year with the team. It takes a while for new players to gain that trust that if they rotate early, someone will have their back.

some_user86
03-02-2008, 05:45 AM
Well, since timvp mentioned how his D was tonight I didn't think I had to...


And I'd say that the phrase, "now that he's integrated himself into the team" implies overall defense on a game to game basis.

It pretty much looked like you overlooked the analysis on Ime. And timvp's analysis said, "Ime Udoka is now playing like he has always been a part of this team. It’s barely noticeable that he’s a new player in the system." So, that constitutes a thought on him "now that he's integrated himself into the team". You never specified that you wanted an essay on the topic, Professor Whottt.

RuffnReadyOzStyle
03-02-2008, 06:24 AM
I'm going to post my thoughts then read the thread and see how many of you already said what I did... ;)

*Manu had an exceptional driving game, then hit a step-back and a step-in to seal the win. Clutch gold.

*Tony is back for real now. He drove with authority, and his shooting form was post-Engelland (thankfully - he must've been reverting to the old form due to lack of game fitness).

*Tim was thoroughly outplayed (a rarity!) by my compatriot, Andrew Bogut, who has miraculously turned into a top 10 NBA centre with a real low post game on both ends, although he's a better one-on-one than help defender (in fact, his help defense is weak as Manu and Tony proved time and again). :tu to a developing Bogut. In other news, Tim was hacked to death in there!

*Michael Redd hit some incredible shots and is a bona fide Spur killah... on most nights. Not tonight.

*Charlie V's confidence is gone, and his game is shot to hell. Yi needs to pack on some bulk and learn how to play the NBA game. I don't get why the Bucks don't play more Bogut-Gadzuric, since Bogut can defend the post and Dan is a good weakside shotblocker.

*Bobby Simmons has one of the worst contracts in the NBA. Charlie Bell is a perfect example of why you DON'T resign a player who doesn't want to be there. Last year's CB would've won that game for the Bucks.

*Robert Horry was in a weird mood - skipping around like a bunny, then holding on to Mason's leg... strange. I think some nights he tries to cover his age with tricks - sometimes it works, not tonight. And how about that skying Mason tip-in!? (...and the worst FT form in the entire NBA, or bloody close to it!)

*The game got really interesting after Mo was ejected - the Bucks lifted a notch, and forced us to do the same. It got chippy, then intense, and that second half was great to watch.

*:tu to the Bucks' announcers who were fair and showed a good knowledge of the NBA game, except the pronouncement that "the Spurs' transition D is sometimes weak". Um, no. Overall though, kudos to those guys, twas a good call of the game.

m33p0
03-02-2008, 07:01 AM
manu ginobili, 30 points in 33 minutes. :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

Manu-of-steel
03-02-2008, 07:02 AM
nice game spurs. thanx timvp

whottt
03-02-2008, 07:44 AM
I didn't understand what you meant.

I know you didn't...but why must I suffer because of that?

some_user86
03-02-2008, 08:01 AM
I failed to coherently communicate with another human being.

What else is new, whottt?

Ghost Writer
03-02-2008, 11:51 AM
Like I said before the game, I like the strides Bogut is taking to improve.

Nice to see Parker finding his groove again.

Sometimes it's tough to get up for sub-par teams.

You people seem surprised that Stoudamire has supplanted Vaughn. I told you that when the Spurs were rumored to get Stoudamire.

Neither PG will see significant minutes in the playoffs, as Manu and Barry will bring the ball up, which is why Manu needs to go back to the bench at some point.

td4mvp21
03-02-2008, 02:51 PM
33 minutes for both Duncan and Ginobili...I'll take that any game in March in a win :tu

timvp
03-02-2008, 03:28 PM
Neither PG will see significant minutes in the playoffs, as Manu and Barry will bring the ball up, which is why Manu needs to go back to the bench at some point.Doubtful. Pop only goes to Manu or Barry at point in emergency situations. Between Stoudamire and Vaughn, Pop will likely find at least one of the two playing well enough to avoid any emergencies.

Ginobili is better at shooting guard and it'd be suicide to play Barry post-calf injuries against point guards.

T Park
03-02-2008, 03:33 PM
I'd just be happy if Brent comes back and shoots like he did against the lakers pre injury.

ShoogarBear
03-02-2008, 03:40 PM
Udoka on D seems to be a big more of a ball hawk than Bowen. He like to get into the passing lanes like Manu does, he just doesn't do it as frequently. As was already mentioned, he also seems to be a better post defender despite not having the height of Bowen. On perimeter D, he's not even close to Bowen, but he's an acceptable alternative. Kind of an interesting mix.

AFBlue
03-02-2008, 04:08 PM
Saw most of the same things timvp did. Most notably, I liked the way that Parker got himself in the groove, but more importantly how he was able to see the floor and get others involved. I was VERY encouraged by Tony's play last night.

Manu is incredible. He has really developed that jumpshot, especially his step-back move. Once he steps back and creates space from the defender, he is able to measure the shot with a long release and nail it....almost like it's in slow motion.

One more thing...

FWIW, Michael Redd has a player option in 2010....Master Plan baby!

SpurAddict561
03-02-2008, 04:18 PM
Manu is on fire lately..I'm loving it.

Glad we finally got the monkey that is Milwaukee at home off our back.

Agloco
03-02-2008, 04:56 PM
I've got to believe that the Spurs are happy with this one considering Timmy got abused by Bogut all night. We got lucky. For some reason the plays like he's heading to the HOF against us. What's that all about anyway?

I'm just glad he missed the tip in at the end of regulation (which would have been a travesty considering he mauled Timmy to get to it....). Dunno if anyone else noticed Timmy walking off the court with a not so pleased look. Horry had to console him. :lol

It would seem that Manu is still in rhythm and Tony is back, but with a few trouble spots. His ability to get to the basket is back, however he really needs work with that jumper, and his stroke in general. He nearly cost us the game single handedly at the stripe. :cry

Overall a good outing. I just wonder how much is in the tank tonight against NJ. :wtf

whottt
03-02-2008, 05:00 PM
I'm a stupid fucking idiot that mentally inserts the word "tonight" into peoples posts and then answers them with redundant quotes and then questions the reading ability of orginal questioner whose post I mentally inserted the word "tonight into", for not seeing the original anwser to a question he wasn't asking.

Either that, or I think I'm one of the "elite" who understand what the word "tonight" means.

This is what I have brought to this thread and conversation. I am stupid see me post.

some_user86
03-02-2008, 05:04 PM
I am a fucking jackass who can't see that my post could have a double meaning. I love to hear myself rant, and I've got a bone to pick with everyone.

timvp
03-02-2008, 05:05 PM
some_user86 bringing the fire. Nice.

:smokin

whottt
03-02-2008, 05:36 PM
Even though, nowhere in whottt's original post was the word tonight, and timvp had already answered what he thought of Udoka's defense "tonight"....

I still stupidly fucking concluded that was whottt was asking about Udoka's defense "tonight", even though that question had already been answered, and the word "tonight" was nowhere in whottt's post.


In short, I pulled a conclusion completely out of my own ass due to my own stupidity and lack of logic.

Fact: Timvp had answered the specifics of Udoka's D "tonight"
Fact: Whottt's post did not contain the word "tonight"

Fact, I somehow still stupidly fucking concluded that whottt's question was about "tonight".



In short, this whole conversation is because I thought whottt didn't read the original post, even though there was no evidence from which to draw that conclusion.

I drew a stupid conclusion.
I posted a stupid response to my own stupid conclusion.
And I am stupidly trying to blame whottt for it.

whottt
03-02-2008, 05:46 PM
Fact: Timvp posted his thoughts on Udoka's D for the specific game.
Fact: Nowhere in whottt's post was anything to indicate he was asking for his thoughts on Udoka's D for this specific game.

Logical Conclusions:

A. Since timvp had already answered what he thought of Udoka's D, it must be his overall d since integrating himself to the team.



Why?

Obviously....since I knew timvp feels that Udoka has integrated himself into the team, and is playing as if he has been here for a long time, I obviously read the part of his post concerning Udoka...and his D in this specific game.


Yet still you concluded I didn't...

When in fact I did...and there is evidence within my post to clearly indicate that I did.


I read the post...you concluded I didn't...even though there was nothing to indicate that, and substantial evidence that I had...you were wrong.

You drew the stupid fucking conclusion, idiot...

ducks
03-02-2008, 06:01 PM
Perhaps most noteworthy was the fact that he was 4-for-5 on jumpers during the game,