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Jimcs50
01-10-2005, 09:12 AM
Sunday, January 9, 2005


ESPN.com news services
NEW YORK -- Carlos Beltran is on the verge of following Pedro Martinez to the New York Mets.







A day after the All-Star outfielder let the deadline to re-sign with Houston pass, he reached a preliminary agreement Sunday night on a $119 million, seven-year contract with the Mets that includes an $11 million signing bonus.



"We have good-faith terms, and we're working toward the final agreement," Beltran's agent, Scott Boras said. "We're near the end of it, but not quite complete."



The Mets, who haven't made the playoffs since 2000, just last month lured Martinez from the Boston Red Sox with a $53 million, four-year deal. They declined comment on their talks with Beltran.


According to the New York Times, it was the addition of Martinez that initially piqued Beltran's interest.


"Now that you have Pedro, I'm interested," Carlos Beltran told the Mets last week, according to The Times.



New York and Boras spent Sunday negotiating the salaries for each season, the amount of deferred payments and the schedule of when the money will be paid.



Beltran was due to come to New York for a physical Monday. The sides intended to announce the deal Tuesday -- the last day before a change in federal rules makes signing bonuses subject to increased taxes.


Beltran addressed the concern he might not thrive in the glare of the Big Apple spotlight in an interview with the New York Post.


"There's a lot of people saying because I played my whole career in Kansas City I'm a guy who likes small market teams," Beltran told the Post. "I have said this and I believe this: I can play anywhere I go. I know I can play anywhere because I have confidence in myself and my abilities."


And borrowing from a decades-old marketing slogan, Beltran sounds as if he and his family will fit in fine.


"I love New York," Beltran told the Post. "When I played for Kansas City, I always liked going to New York and so did my wife."


The Mets might not be done spending big money. Beltran called fellow Puerto Rican and free agent Carlos Delgado on Sunday, according to The Times, in an attempt to help lure the slugging first baseman to the Mets.


He is likely selling Delgado on what he sees in New York.


"I like the plan [the Mets] have," Beltran told the Post. "They're going in the right direction. They have made moves now that show that they'll be a different Mets team than they've been."





Beltran, who helped Houston come within a victory of its first World Series last year, will became the 10th player in baseball history to agree to a deal worth $100 million or more -- and the first to switch teams for a nine-figure contract since Jason Giambi got a $120 million, seven-year contract from the New York Yankees in December 2001.


A source familiar with the negotiations told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney that the talks with Houston fell through Saturday night because the team would not give Beltran a full no-trade clause. Beltran and his agent, Scott Boras, were OK with the seven-year, $108 million deal from the Astros. But the offer included a "limited" no-trade clause -- a stipulation that turned out to be the breaking point of those talks.


"That [no-trade clause] was one aspect, but there certainly were other parts," Astros owner Drayton McLane said. "They were trying to see which was the best deal they could get. We were close, but there were a number of issues that had to be resolved that never came together. There were just too many things going on."


The source also told Olney that despite numerous calls from Boras, the Yankees never submitted an offer for Beltran.


Through an unnamed, high-ranking baseball official, the Associated Press reported Boras proposed a $100 million, six-year contract for Beltran to the Yankees on Saturday night. While the Yankees told Boras they thought highly of Beltran, they turned down the offer because they didn't want to commit $140 million -- $100 million in salary and $40 million in luxury tax.



His average salary of $17 million will tie Houston's Jeff Bagwell for the seventh-highest, trailing only Alex Rodriguez ($25.2 million), Manny Ramirez ($20 million), Derek Jeter ($18.9 million), Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds (both $18 million) and Jason Giambi ($17.1 million).



Houston offered a guaranteed $100 million, seven-year contract, which included a $14 million option for 2012 with a $2 million buyout, an Astros executive said Sunday on condition of anonymity. If the option were exercised, the deal would have been worth $112 million over eight seasons.



Another person in the talks, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said Astros owner McLane raised the guaranteed offer to $108 million Saturday night, but that figure was disputed by the Astros executive and McLane did not wish to discuss the money. McLane turned down Beltran's demand for a no-trade clause, which became an obstacle to a deal, perhaps a fatal one.



"The serious parts of this only happened in the last six hours," Astros general manager Tim Purpura said during a late-night news conference Saturday. "Really, I think we ran out of time. Mostly, it's time and distance. Certainly I regret the fact that we didn't deal with some of these things earlier -- but we didn't control the pace of the negotiations."



Astros officials said an agreement was difficult to get in place Saturday night because of the logistics: Team staff was at the ballpark, McLane was at his home in Temple, Boras was at his home in Newport Beach, Calif., and Beltran was in Puerto Rico.



It's been a tough offseason for the Astros. All-Star second baseman Jeff Kent signed with the Dodgers, pitcher Wade Miller was let go and signed with Boston, and All-Star outfielder Lance Berkman severely hurt a knee playing flag football, an injury that will cause him to miss the start of the season.



Also, Houston is trying to persuade Roger Clemens not to retire. The 42-year-old has said he would make a decision this month.



"Certainly we will welcome Roger back," Purpura said. "We're not going to shift into a rebuilding mode because of this."



Clemens, who won his record seventh Cy Young Award in his first season with his hometown team, already has agreed to salary arbitration. If he exchanges figures with the Astros on Jan. 18, he could ask for a record amount, topping the $18.5 million request Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter submitted before the 2001 season.

T Park
01-10-2005, 01:14 PM
And with that, Clemens will retire, and the Reds will pass the Astros in the standings.

If the Cubs stand pat with what they have, it should be another easy division title for the Cardinals.

Jimcs50
01-10-2005, 01:38 PM
And with that, Clemens will retire, and the Reds will pass the Astros in the standings.

If the Cubs stand pat with what they have, it should be another easy division title for the Cardinals.


And maybe, just maybe, they might actually win a game in World Series.

:)

Duff McCartney
01-10-2005, 02:11 PM
If the Cubs stand pat with what they have, it should be another easy division title for the Cardinals.

Not likely.

Spurminator
01-10-2005, 02:43 PM
I don't remember Clemens ever saying he would leave unless Beltran was retained.

That's always been the media's speculation.

tlongII
01-10-2005, 03:11 PM
I'm really surprised that Houston didn't give Beltran what he wanted. Why not give him the no trade clause? The Astros will regret this.

Spurminator
01-10-2005, 03:58 PM
Yeah, it's sad that the no-trade clause was the major hurdle. If he got to a point where his contract dwarfed his output, it would be difficult to find takers anyway.

T Park
01-10-2005, 07:31 PM
And maybe, just maybe, they might actually win a game in World Series.



How bout them Astros Jimmy?

Extra Stout
01-11-2005, 01:42 PM
I'm really surprised that Houston didn't give Beltran what he wanted. Why not give him the no trade clause? The Astros will regret this.That's just Boras' spin. Of course the Astros weren't going to kill the deal over a no-trade clause. Boras didn't really attempt to negotiate with the Astros until a couple of hours before the deadline, and when the deadline passed, of course he was going to use whatever the most recent topic of negotiation was with Houston as the "reason" they couldn't nab Beltran.

What do you expect Boras to say? Is he going to say, "Don't you realize I'm a dishonest sleazeball who screws teams over to maximize the paycheck to the last dime for my client, and that aspect of my character, not coincidentally, is why I'm so successful?" Is he going to say, "Media fawning over him aside, doesn't the fact that Carlos chose me as his agent make it pretty clear where his priorities lay in choosing a team?"

The Astros were nothing but leverage to raise the bidding for the Mets. Boras is probably disappointed with $119 million and wishes he could have found another interested deep-pocket team to start a bidding war.

Extra Stout
01-11-2005, 01:44 PM
And with that, Clemens will retire, and the Reds will pass the Astros in the standings.

If the Cubs stand pat with what they have, it should be another easy division title for the Cardinals.I of course hope they repeat, but it won't be easy. The pitching staff won't overachieve as easily without Matheny behind the plate, Mulder's reliability is a question mark, and Grudzilanek/Eckstein is a downgrade from Womack/Renteria up the middle.

tlongII
01-11-2005, 03:07 PM
That's just Boras' spin. Of course the Astros weren't going to kill the deal over a no-trade clause. Boras didn't really attempt to negotiate with the Astros until a couple of hours before the deadline, and when the deadline passed, of course he was going to use whatever the most recent topic of negotiation was with Houston as the "reason" they couldn't nab Beltran.

What do you expect Boras to say? Is he going to say, "Don't you realize I'm a dishonest sleazeball who screws teams over to maximize the paycheck to the last dime for my client, and that aspect of my character, not coincidentally, is why I'm so successful?" Is he going to say, "Media fawning over him aside, doesn't the fact that Carlos chose me as his agent make it pretty clear where his priorities lay in choosing a team?"

The Astros were nothing but leverage to raise the bidding for the Mets. Boras is probably disappointed with $119 million and wishes he could have found another interested deep-pocket team to start a bidding war.


I disagree. The Astros are not denying the idea that the no trade clause was the sticking point.

Extra Stout
01-11-2005, 03:49 PM
I disagree. The Astros are not denying the idea that the no trade clause was the sticking point.McLane's response was that he was still just trying to negotiate (as in "what will you concede if I give you that no-trade clause") and that if he'd said yes to the no-trade clause, Boras would have just picked the next item on the list as the "reason" it didn't get done.

I mean sure, maybe Boras would love to go up to an owner, ask whatever he wants and get it without negotiation (a la Alex Rodriguez), but that's not smart business. But you know, when the agent doesn't even bother to return the team's phone calls until 90 minutes before the final deadline, that doesn't leave much time to iron out even coarse details, and it makes it easy for a dishonest agent to say some piddling issue was the deal-breaker.

Jeez, it's Scott Boras. Of course his spin is BS. He also said last week there were five or six teams offering Beltran $112 million. Creative lying is one of his best skills.

It's no skin off my back if the Astros suck (which they will) -- that's one less Central rival. But it strains credibility to imagine that a team would fork out no-trade clauses to so many other players, yet let their offseason go to pot and lose out on one of the most significant free agent negotiations in franchise history because they wouldn't want to give one to Beltran.

However, it's straightforward to imagine that Scott Boras is a scumsucking reptile.

tlongII
01-11-2005, 05:49 PM
McLane's response was that he was still just trying to negotiate (as in "what will you concede if I give you that no-trade clause") and that if he'd said yes to the no-trade clause, Boras would have just picked the next item on the list as the "reason" it didn't get done.

I mean sure, maybe Boras would love to go up to an owner, ask whatever he wants and get it without negotiation (a la Alex Rodriguez), but that's not smart business. But you know, when the agent doesn't even bother to return the team's phone calls until 90 minutes before the final deadline, that doesn't leave much time to iron out even coarse details, and it makes it easy for a dishonest agent to say some piddling issue was the deal-breaker.

Jeez, it's Scott Boras. Of course his spin is BS. He also said last week there were five or six teams offering Beltran $112 million. Creative lying is one of his best skills.

It's no skin off my back if the Astros suck (which they will) -- that's one less Central rival. But it strains credibility to imagine that a team would fork out no-trade clauses to so many other players, yet let their offseason go to pot and lose out on one of the most significant free agent negotiations in franchise history because they wouldn't want to give one to Beltran.

However, it's straightforward to imagine that Scott Boras is a scumsucking reptile.

Again I have to point out that McClane never said he would have given the "no trade clause" if necessary. I'm not denying that Boras is a scuzz-ball, but the Astros clearly screwed up.

Duff McCartney
01-11-2005, 05:57 PM
"Don't you realize I'm a dishonest sleazeball who screws teams over to maximize the paycheck to the last dime for my client, and that aspect of my character, not coincidentally, is why I'm so successful?"

He's an agent...that's his job. Don't try to spin this in a bad way...at least from Boras' side...it's what he is payed to do.

I bet you're pissed because Roger Clemens is such a great pitcher too huh?

T Park
01-11-2005, 10:43 PM
The pitching staff won't overachieve as easily

I see.

Tell me, who on the rotation overachieved??

How is Mulder's reliability a question.

violentkitten
01-11-2005, 11:21 PM
fuck they might as well move the entire fucking league to new york

a team for each borough

Extra Stout
01-12-2005, 09:27 AM
I see.

Tell me, who on the rotation overachieved??

How is Mulder's reliability a question.Marquis, Suppan, Carpenter, and Williams overachieved. Morris, on the other hand, had a subpar year by his standards. If he is healthy again, I would expect him to return to his earlier form. Last year he was so banged up I bet he lost 10 mph when pitching out of the stretch.

Mulder wore down towards the end of the year in Oakland, was horrifically ineffective the last month, and his decline probably cost Oakland a playoff spot. I don't think LaRussa can count on him as a workhorse to eat up innings. A healthy Morris would be better for that. Mulder I see as a #2 starter, not an ace.

Winning 105 games required a lot of things to come together for St. Louis, particularly a convergence of offensive excellence from several guys, and we all saw how the Red Sox exposed their weaknesses.

It would take a lot of good fortune and unlikely circumstances for the Cardinals to win as many as 100 again. Both offense and defense have taken hits in the offseason. 90-95 I think is more realistic. If the rest of the division sucks, that will get it done, but with the Cubs' pitching staff you never can take that for granted. A couple of key injuries could derail the Cardinals' season rather quickly.

Stop. Wait.

Why am I trying to have an intelligent discussion with you? I might as well be explaining this to a duck. Never mind.

atlfan25
01-12-2005, 08:09 PM
I could give a fuck about the cardinals, but i'm not sold on this overachieving talk.

Woody Williams clearly did not overachieve, anyone can see that. If anything, he underachieved. Last year his era was 4.18, his highest since 1999. Last season his record was 11-8. His stats in the 3 previous years:
2001 - 15-9 4.09 era
2002 - 9-4 2.53 era in only 17 starts.
2003 - 18-9 3.88 era

Carpenter did have his best year, but i wouldn't call it overachieving. When he was in Toronto it was known he was a good pitcher with great stuff. Injuries held him back the last 2 years. This year he was finally healthy again and he performed to his abilities, it was no surprise he pitched well this year if you know about him. He should continue to pitch just fine in the coming years barring injuries.

Same with Marquis. It was his best year, however, there is no reason to think he won't continue his fine pitching. He showed flashes of it with Atlanta and now that he finally got a solid spot in the rotation he performed. He has great stuff and this he finally learned how to pitch. He will have many seasons that will prove to be better than this last one.

Suppan's era was 4.17 down from 4.19 from last year. He only won more games because of better run support with St.Louis. Overachieved? last year he was throwin around 85 and still did fine. This year he found some lost velocity perhaps to where he averaged from around 88-91 and could bring it up 93-94 if he so desired. If he keeps that velocity he should easily have a better year in 2005.

Mulder is an ace. If averaging over 200 innings over the last 4 years with 22 complete games is not a horse, i don't know what is. Focusing on his one bad half and ignoring the previous 3 1/2 excellent years is ridiculous. Mulder is one of the top 10 pitchers in the game. Every pitcher has a bad half now and then.

scott
01-12-2005, 11:13 PM
At its not the Yankees.

exstatic
01-13-2005, 04:36 PM
Houston was screwed as soon as Beltran selected Boras. As one TV analyst so aptly said, "Boras' clients go where the money is, period". That just wasn't ever going to be Houston.

T Park
01-14-2005, 12:53 AM
[/QUOTE]Why am I trying to have an intelligent discussion with you? I might as well be explaining this to a duck. Never mind.
Offline | Online
Reply With Quote[QUOTE]

Just couldnt quite act like an adult could you.

Cute.


Great post ATL,

Whats funny, the offense hasnt taken much of a hit, Grudz, if healthy will hit about 290 300 wich is just as good, better than Tony Womack.

Eckstein will hit probobly 290 at the top of the order, wich is what Renteria hit, he wont hit as many RBI's but hes gonna be a completely different player.

There offense will be just as prolific, and the pitching will be even better.

Next year at this time, theyll be shopping for a big time closer, and will have 15 million to spend.

Id say the Cardinal's future looks pretty Fin bright.


Also, the Cardinals starting rotation, makes less than Sammy Sosa, a little factoid for you Cubby fans out there.

3rdCoast
01-14-2005, 01:29 AM
Fuck the Cards, die slow motherfuckers, die slow.

T Park
01-14-2005, 04:13 PM
:rolleyes

Marcus Garvey
01-14-2005, 04:23 PM
Carlos better check the paper he's getting just to be safe. You never know what mark ass bitches might pull on a player.

http://www.boomspeed.com/sweetc/Tpark50.jpg

3rdCoast
01-15-2005, 12:14 AM
Fuck the Cards, die slow motherfuckers, die slow.