About these inane discussion on NBA "best player"

[Rummpd]

Starting a team right now to win a championship anytime in next three years give me Duncan over Kobe or James anytime.*


In reality the MVP race is a popularity contest but Duncan's 20/11/2 should at least be there in the discussion - he is supported by Manu's greatness and Parkers verve and talents but he is still the MAN in the NBA. EVery candidate for MVP this year has at least one all star or former all star playing with him and many of the candidates have never proven they can win playoff series without another top tier superstar (excepting James whom I would take over Kobe personally if I could not have Duncan due his versatality, size, and > upside).

What Duncan does in a quiet fashion is lead and there is no accident in the fact that since he came in the league no superstar (and he is one of one 3-4 in league who can make that claim justly) has ever had a higher winning percentage over a comparable time - Not only in the NBA but in the history of competitive sports.

He is that *&^% good and yet the pundits take him for granted. He will however make his name again on the most signficant part of the NBA schedule when he will probably do something "insane" again like block 9 shots (as he did in the closeout game with the Suns).

[bigfan]

Lets let Kobe get MVP. It will be so much sweeter when we whip his ass in the playoffs.

[Rummpd]

My point is he should at least be in the discussion he is still the best player on the top team in the W.

[ancestron]

Lets let Kobe get MVP. It will be so much sweeter when we whip his ass in the playoffs.
:tu

[ancestron]

Of course he should be in the discussion. Manu Ginobili SHOULD have been an all-star. Bruce Bowen SHOULD have been DPOY like 3 or 4 times by now.
The Spurs SHOULD be given more respect in general.
no surprises here.

[oboymeetsogirl]

Even when Timmy got his two MVPs, he never made a big deal about it. He appreciated being appreciated, but he made it clear in all his words and actions that winning an MVP was not what it was all about. It is about winning championships, and being the best team player possible.

I'm not going to argue that Kobe probably deserves an MVP this year. He's never won one, and he's won championships in the past; and this year clearly he is the MVP of a winning team. But even he knows what it's all about. Like Shaq, his highest priority is keeping up with Tim in the number of rings on his fingers. Kobe is dying for another, and Shaq wants to pass Timmy so badly that he's trying to will himself to another run with Nash. Good luck to Shaq, but his time is probably past; and we'll see if in the playoffs Kobe and the Lakers can execute at the same level of efficiency as the Spurs. Doubtful, but the game is played on the court, not in blogs.

The point being: Timmy is still the standard by which all of today's superstars measure themselves. No one is going to catch up with Russell, but today's NBA is bigger, faster and more competitive, so that's okay. Right now, Timmy's the "man."

[ancestron]

keep the pictures of your girlfriend to yourself.

[oboymeetsogirl]

My point being: even if Kobe gets his well deserved MVP, the true "winner" is the guy holding up the O'Brien in the end. Good luck to you Laker fans, but if you meet the Spurs in the playoffs you'll have a tall order: playing against the same core that fought the Shaq-days Lakers to a stand-off, only this time you won't have the Shaq-daddy. It will be your recently revamped squad against an equally (or more) talented Spurs team with far, far more experience playing together.

Like I said: the game is played on the court, not in blogs. See you in May!

[barbacoataco]

I find it funny when people want to compare players "regardless of their team, only on their individual talents." This is the angle most Duncan-haters take, that he is overrated because his team makes him seem better than he is.

The reality is that basketball is a TEAM sport and no player exists as an island to himself. For example, now that Marion is gone, Steve Nash is a different player, with different statistics and characteristics. This goes to show how people like Hollinger are so "misguided." They analyze statistics as if the players existed separate from their team. In Baseball, the batter faces the pitcher, and in that moment, it is "man against man." But in basketball, everything is about team. A low post player can only make his move if someone feeds him the ball in the right position. Steve Nash has huge numbers of assists (in the past) because of the type of plays he ran with Marion. Take Marion off the team and his stats change.

For all these reasons I find it pointless to say who is the "best" player in the NBA. You can say that Duncan and Shaq are the most "successful." And you can also compare players who play the same position and have similar skills. But to do so, you would have to watch a lot of basketball games, not look at a lot of box scores.

[jag]

Isn't this what most women in San Antonio look like?

Go SPURS Go


http://tools.holamun2.com/media/4669d38465fd02.jpg

I wouldnt say "most"...just the few quality ones.

[ancestron]

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd104/CindarOorOO/ayebaybay.jpg

[oboymeetsogirl]

I agree, barbacoataco. My point was that even Shaq, like Timmy and Kobe, would say that the "best" player is the one who gets his team to the final end: the Larry O'Brien trophy.

This is what bothers Nash no end -- he's got the individual honors, but not the Big One. I feel for Suns fans -- they got a big guy, but had to give up Marion. Obviously, they're especially hurting in perimeter defense, because now they've got to score even *more* points now that Marion isn't locking down on other teams' best forwards or guards; and it's hard to do that with Shaq plodding along.

My guess: d'Antoni will find a way to utilize Shaq better by actually slowing the game up a little, and running at more appropriate times (like the days when an ancient Kareem played with the Showtime Lakers). I think they have to make other teams grind it out more, which is to Shaq's advantage.

But hey, I'm a Spurs man, not a Suns, so what do I know? But that doesn't keep me from being a huge admirer of Nash (although he scares the hell out of me when he goes up against the Spurs), so I only wish you Suns fans the best. In fact, you can do us all a favor by beating up on the Lakers if you happen to meet them first in the playoffs.

[GSH]

The discussions about the NBA's best player are intended to generate additional interest in teams that won't win the Championship.

[Medvedenko]

The discussions about the NBA's best player are intended to generate additional interest in teams that won't win the Championship.


Except when Michael Jordan won it or Magic Johnson....yeah I get your point.... ugh.

[oboymeetsogirl]

I like that Rasheed Wallace quote, Medvedenko. The Pistons are a perfect example of a championship team that simply doesn't give a damn about individual accolades. They just go out and rip your face. I'm kinda pulling for the Celtics to win the East this year; but really, the way the Pistons are going this year it doesn't seem likely. Spurs fans know they are the one team that match them in experience and guts, so I also would almost prefer to see the Pistons in the finals just to see where everyone stands these days...

[barbacoataco]

A lot of fans and "experts" thought that Lebron was the best player in the game/unstoppable after he went off on the Pistons last year. But the Spurs made him look pretty average in the Finals.

To the person who compared ancient Kareem/Lakers to the Shaq/Suns situation. Kareem could ALWAYS run up and down the court, even when he was old.

[jman3000]

i got kinda irked when i saw skip bayless on 1st and 10 yesterday say neither kobe or lebron were the mvps, and that it was tim duncan, and to immediately have the other 3 hosts start laughing and saying he was crazy.


i mean seriously... the mention of tim duncan, one of the best players and playoff performers in nba history... 2 time mvp... 3 time finals mvp... has given money shots to basically every dominant player in the nba the last 10 years... warrants laughter?

are you fucking shitting me?

[oboymeetsogirl]

I think that was me mentioning Kareem as being slow during his last few years, barbacoataco. You and I agree on most everything, but I was a Laker fan during the Showtime years, watching virtually every game. Yes, Kareem could get down the court, but more often than not he didn't reach his post-up spot until after the first or second pass. And of course, there were the zillions of times Kareem barely reached half-court by the time a shot was put up (watching Yao these days sometimes reminds me of that).

But you know what? Neither Magic, Byron, James, coach Riles or we Lakers fans gave a damn, because if there was one thing we knew it was that Kareem would be there when it counted. During his last two years, all he was asked was to sky-hook for his average 12-15 points, contest shots, pull down his 10 pg rebounds, and trigger the vaunted Showtime fast break.

Question is, can Shaq play that role? Like Kareem, I don't think it's necessary for Shaq to be in on every fast break. But it seems to me that Kareem style play is what Kerr had in mind when he brought him over, and now d'Antoni has to figure out exactly how to make that happen. For the sake of Suns fans, I hope it's soon...

[Galileo]

Duncan is the most valuable player in the NBA.

If the Spurs didn't have Duncan, their leading rebounder would be Oberto, pulling down 5.5 per game. With Duncan, the Spurs lead the NBA in defensive rebounding.

Without Duncan, the leading shot-blocker would be Horry, at 0.5 per game. With Duncan, the Spurs are the #2 defensive team in the NBA.

Without Duncan, the Spurs would have no rebounding or shot-blocking, the Spurs would be below .500, and would be a lottery team.

With Duncan, the Spurs have the best record in the Western conference.

This is value. Duncan has more of it than anyone else. Lebron in a distant 2nd, well ahead of Kobe.

[oboymeetsogirl]

Well put, Galileo... even we Spurs fans need to be reminded in raw figures what Duncan means to this team...

But if I may add: don't forget the way Timmy "quarterbacks" the Spurs, talking to each player on the court, calling out the switches on defense, giving the pep talks on the bench, working overtime in practice, leading by following Pop's lead, pumping everybody back up or cracking a joke when things are looking bad... on and on.

These are the intangibles that Manu, Tony, Fin, and everyone else on the squad depend upon for Timmy to execute. It's a huge media myth that Duncan is a stone face who just "goes about his business." This team has thrived on Timmy's leadership for years. Yes, you can say that this may even be the difference should the Spurs meet the Lakers in the playoffs. They say Kobe has been taking on more of a role of leader and mentor this year; but is it enough and on time to make this a championship year for his team?

I'm a Spurs man, so I say no. Unfortunately, the chip on Kobe's shoulder will always be a detriment, and the selfless Timmy has been playing his role a lot longer. So we *have* to give his team the edge all the time.

[MajicMan]

I don't get this "Timmy gets no respect" stuff. He gets plenty of respect around the league. It's just mainly the media always looking for the next Jordan type. Yeah, a lot of the players say Kobe is the best in the league but if you ask who they would start a franchise with most that have a clue would choose a big man. Timmy doesn't really give the media much to work with either.

[duncan228]

Timmy doesn't really give the media much to work with either.

By his choice.

From a Sports Illustrated article from '05 that I just posted in the "Profanity" thread:

Still, there is another, simpler reason why Duncan is not more popular: He doesn't want to be. That's why he offers up meaningless quotes in a monotone voice, why he turns down offers to be on magazine covers flexing his bicep, why he is perfectly happy with the fact that you may know nothing, or next to nothing, about his family and his personal life. Think about it: He's one of the best, if not the best, player in the NBA, he's winning championships, he's getting paid like a Sultan and he's playing for the best organization in the league. What is another $10 million in endorsements going to do for his life? How are more screaming fans going to make him happier? Why in the world would he want to be a superstar, if what we really mean by that -- and by 'we' I mean the media and the fans -- is a marketable superstar? It may seem unlikely in celebrity-saturated America, but Duncan is opting out of the culture of idolatry. And, in spite of his superior skills, that may be the most remarkable thing about him.

[MajicMan]

By his choice.

From a Sports Illustrated article from '05 that I just posted in the "Profanity" thread:

Still, there is another, simpler reason why Duncan is not more popular: He doesn't want to be. That's why he offers up meaningless quotes in a monotone voice, why he turns down offers to be on magazine covers flexing his bicep, why he is perfectly happy with the fact that you may know nothing, or next to nothing, about his family and his personal life. Think about it: He's one of the best, if not the best, player in the NBA, he's winning championships, he's getting paid like a Sultan and he's playing for the best organization in the league. What is another $10 million in endorsements going to do for his life? How are more screaming fans going to make him happier? Why in the world would he want to be a superstar, if what we really mean by that -- and by 'we' I mean the media and the fans -- is a marketable superstar? It may seem unlikely in celebrity-saturated America, but Duncan is opting out of the culture of idolatry. And, in spite of his superior skills, that may be the most remarkable thing about him.
Exactly, so his fan bois should stop all this no respect nonsense. I'm a Laker fan and Tim is one of my favorite players. I also find him pretty funny guy but if Tim doesn't want the attention why do his fan bois insist on it?

[dbreiden83080]

Timmy doesn't really give the media much to work with either.

What is Tim Duncan not giving the media??? The only thing going against him is the market he plays in. If this guy was winning titles with the Knicks, he'd be the face of the NBA. Ewing hated the media but he was covered non-stop because it was New York. People say Duncan is boring to talk too, well who is exciting to talk too?? When did Kobe become an exciting interview, unless he is whining about a trade or denying rape charges. Lebron, he's boring to talk too, he doesn't tell you much of anything about himself. Tim's lack of mega attention is all about the market he plays in.

[duncan228]

Tim's lack of mega attention is all about the market he plays in.

I would say that the market he plays in is part of it.
His own choice to be selective in his endorsment choices and to protect his privacy play big roles too. (See my last post in this thread.)

[MajicMan]

What is Tim Duncan not giving the media??? The only thing going against him is the market he plays in. If this guy was winning titles with the Knicks, he'd be the face of the NBA. Ewing hated the media but he was covered non-stop because it was New York. People say Duncan is boring to talk too, well who is exciting to talk too?? When did Kobe become an exciting interview, unless he is whining about a trade or denying rape charges. Lebron, he's boring to talk too, he doesn't tell you much of anything about himself. Tim's lack of mega attention is all about the market he plays in.
Why get your panties in a bunch? This is what I fucken mean. Back off fan boi. Tim is fugly as balls and he s-s-s-s-tuttterrrrs in his interviews and goes on about nothing interesting. The media wants sound bytes and the next Jordan type. Looks, charm, charisma, personality, everything. Has there been since Magic, Barkley, Jordan? Not really, the closest has been Shaq. Kobe is pretty bland, boring, and robotic in his interviews but at least he brings drama. As far as the market Tim plays in, why does Parker get more attention than Tim does? Because he's married to Eva. If Tim is boring Parker is a 1000x more boring. Just how the world works man.

[dbreiden83080]

Tim is fugly as balls and he s-s-s-s-tuttterrrrs in his interviews and goes on about nothing interesting.

:rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

A) He is not UGLY and B), if he wanted too he could snap his fingers and get his hands on more hot tail then you could google and pop off to in your lifetime.

[MajicMan]

:rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

A) He is not UGLY and B), if he wanted too he could snap his fingers and get his hands on more hot tail then you could google and pop off to in your lifetime.
Anyone that has money can do that and you're missing the point here. Man, I'm not even going to argue with you because it's pointless. You lack so much common sense it's not even funny.

[dbreiden83080]

I would say that the market he plays in is part of it.
His own choice to be selective in his endorsment choices and to protect his privacy play big roles too. (See my last post in this thread.)

If the market you play in is big enough and you are having great success, whether you want that attention or not it is coming you're way. I live in NY, i saw it for years with Ewing. He was not a guy that wanted tons of attention from the media but good or bad he got it. He at times had ups and downs with the fans as well. He was not doing tons of commercials and didn't have dozens of endorsements mostly by his choice. However The story was all about the Knicks and can he lead them to a title, is he a great player if he never does and on and on. If Ewing had won titles in NY like Duncan is now in SA, he would have been the Jordan of the NBA. It would have been Ewing non-stop and only Ewing because he plays in the media capital of the whole world. That is what i am saying about Duncan, yes he could have the same personality but he still would be getting far more press and buzz if he was playing in a big market, it is unavoidable.

[dbreiden83080]

Anyone that has money can do that and you're missing the point here. Man, I'm not even going to argue with you because it's pointless. You lack so much common sense it's not even funny.

Oh i lack common sense but you say one of the reasons Duncan does not get major press is because you think he is UGLY??? Yeah right. :rolleyes

[DazedAndConfused]

Tim Duncan flat out is not interesting to anyone who is not a fan of basketball. Sorry, his personality is completely robotic.

[Galileo]

Tim Duncan flat out is not interesting to anyone who is not a fan of basketball. Sorry, his personality is completely robotic.

more BS.

First of all, if you're not a basketball fan, basketball isn't interesting.

If you like basketball, you can watch the cool bank shots of Duncan.

If you like hot-dogs, drugs, sex, whining, pouting, ball-hogs, arrests, etc., you can go with Kobe.

[duncan228]

Sorry, his personality is completely robotic.

It really isn't.

It's what you may see/hear from sound bites but if you go furthur you'll find he's quite funny and incredibly articulate.

There are post game interviews on Spurs.com, listen to some.
Watch his press conferences from any of the Finals, both media day interviews and post game interviews.
Read some of the articles floating around this board.

Duncan is intelligent, he's got a quick wit with a great sense of humor.

[dbreiden83080]

Sorry, his personality is completely robotic.

And Kobe's is not?? If he played in Atlanta, would anyone give a shit about him????

[gmartin02]

Question is, can Shaq play that role? Like Kareem, I don't think it's necessary for Shaq to be in on every fast break. But it seems to me that Kareem style play is what Kerr had in mind when he brought him over, and now d'Antoni has to figure out exactly how to make that happen. For the sake of Suns fans, I hope it's soon...
Old Shaq play like old Kareem style - lol - That's like teaching an elephant ballet.

[ClingingMars]

Just because Duncan chooses not to engage in controversy, to just PLAY THE DAMN GAME OF BASKETBALL, he's ROBOTIC? BULLSHIT. He's one of the best role models in the NBA and it's really sad that he isn't treated as such.

-Mars

[duncan228]

Let's see Duncan's personality from the best source. Duncan himself.
This came out in Sport Magazine in March 1999.
And he's only gotten looser as his career has gone on and he's matured.
I don't know about anyone else but I don't get "robotic" here.

http://varopig.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!D57A18221146B6B5!118.entry

The Psychoanalysis of Tim Duncan -- By Tim Duncan

For this story, the good people over at Sport asked me to psychoanalyze myself. So as I lay here on my comfortable couch at home, I thought it was time that I reveal who the real Tim Duncan was. On second thought, t think itd be safer to give you a slightly fictionalized versionthat way you won't think I'm too goofy, thus keeping my "dull" image intact (remember, I'm often told, you cant do those Nike and Pro Edge Gel commercial if you get too weirded out).

Ok, here goes: I've got a million things going on in my head at all times. There I said it. If you ever see me and think I'm being standoffish, please forgive me. I am just trying to listen to the inner voice that tortures me so.Just kidding. Seriously, in these moments, I am doing nothing but thinking. Sometimes thinking about nothing.

That is why I am a quiet person by nature. After all, it is difficult to think while talking, and close friends of mine will readily attest to that fact. But back to the psychoanalysis at hand, thats why I love being quietbecause I just love to think. I took up psychology in college at Wake forest for that very reason. Im not planning on opening up a practice anytime soon (although if this lockout lasts much longer it may not be too bad of an idea); I just love the inner workings of the mind. I was able to learn how people think and I really liked that. I was always interested in how people were feeling, how people would react to different thingswhat you could do to make them react in certain ways.

Sometimes I think I think way too much. If I let myself go unrestrained, I can easily overanalyze things. I can overthink things when things are happening good or bad. I can make It more than it is or I can make it less than it is, and sometimes its best just to leave it as it is.

Over the years, I've learned I actually like viewing pressure situations comically so that they don't stress me out. AJ (Avery Johnson, to those lost souls that don't follow the Spurs closely) likes to tell a story all the time about how we were involved in a close game. He missed two or three lay-ups in a row and was starting to stress out. I just came over and asked him something out of the bluesomething like, "What kind of music do you like to listen to?" He just looked at me real funny, like "What the heck are you talking about? Why isn't your mind on the game?" Then he looked at me, and I think he understood what I was saying. "Its not a big deal. It happened. Its gone. We can't change it now. Think about something else." He always tells people about that and laughs it off.

Right now, everything I am writing has a big restrainer on it. I do this for your sake. If I write everything down that I am thinking, then you make all think I have lost it.

You ever see the movie Good Will Hunting starring Matt Damon? Thats probably the best way to get a true psychoanalytical picture of me. I am just a taller, slightly less hyperactive version of the Damon character in that movie. I just enjoyed how he probed people and found out their weaknesseswhat they liked and didnt likejust by asking questions and saying outlandish random stuff, just to get a reaction. People expect me to be this shy, quiet type, so Ill ask them outlandish questions in a serious tone many times just to get a reaction. When people asked me when the lockout would end, I would whisper "February 10... but dont tell anybody." I just do goofy stuff like that simply to get a reaction. Life is too short to be serious all of the time. Not only that, but some of your best pranks can come when others think you are serious.

I try to take this mentallyprobing attitude on the court with me at all times. People in college thought I was lackadaisical because I didnt show emotion. They thought I was soft because I didn't yell with every rebound. Emotions must not always be shown, if you show excitement, then you may also show disappointment or frustration. If your opponent picks up on this frustration, you are at a disadvantage. I made sure my opponents didn't know what was going on in my head, I guess thats why the fans never knew either. Basketball is like a chess game, you cannot reveal all that you are thinking or you will be at a sizeable disadvantage to your opponent.

Basketball to some players is mainly a physical event, to me it is both physical and mental. You must not only conquer your opponents physically, you must also beat them mentally. You must at times out think them. I have to use my shot fakes and things that will work for me. In order to beat my opponent, I have to make basketball become a thinking mans game. I might take a jump shot this time, so that the next time, my opponent is looking for another jump shot. Thats where I then pump-fake him in the air and go around him to the basket where I use my incredible hops, jump over everyone and do a 360 slam dunk! (Sorry, got caught up in the moment, I meant I take one dribble and shoot a jump shot, although the 360 does sound cooler)

Have you ever noticed that some people while playing always seem to hit themselves in the same place? Whether it is they bang knees often, or they always seem to get hit in the head. Unfortunately, I have one of these problems, only I wish it were the knee or the head. Lucky me, it is a place in the middle of these two, that only males havegot it yet? Yes I get hit often in the gonads.

I don't know why I have this propensity, I just do. That is my major area of weakness. I dont know how this happens, I don't know why this happens, all I know is how frequently this seems to happen. It seems that nobody gets hit in the "groin", as many tend to call it, on a basketball court more than me. Opponents have hit me in games. Teammates have hit me in practice. Teammates, believe it or not, have even got me during games against other opponents. Everybody but the referee and the mascot have got me at some point or another (and if you see me retiring early, it'll probably be because one of the aforementioned finally got me). The amazing thing is that nobody has got me twice, with the exception of David, who seems to get me all the time. I don't know if its his arm length or what, but he sure does seem to have a knack at crippling me in that way. Everyone else in the league is pretty random. Whoever gets me gets me. I'm going to have to be the first NBA player to regularly wear a cup if this continues to happen.

When not writing in pain, people tell me I look pretty nimble on the basketball court. One reporter called me the Man of Many Moves, saying I had the best footwork of any NBA big man. He then asked if this was because I was a good dancer. I hated to disillusion the man, but I actually suck at dancing. I don't know why I can't, I just know that I can't. In basketball, I learned progression of moves just by doing different things. He said dancing was the same thin, but I sure don't see it that way.

Then I started to think of what the reporter had asked. I enjoyed the Man of Many Moves name, which he had administered to me. However, I feel this reporter may have been a little remiss. I hate to tell him, but I am no big man. This is merely where they believe I should play because I am tall. I am really a point guard; Im just a little bigger than everyone else is.

I'm sure that right now you are all thinking that I must be crazy. But, I assure you, I am normal, I told you I just am always thinking, sometimes about really crazy random things. But in all seriousness, it really should be difficult for me to be too strange. After all, a great family raised me. I had great friends, support and teaching at Wake forest. I came to a first-class organization in the Spurs family. My best friend from college, Marc Scott, is my business manager, handling my day-to-day operations. And my agent is an attorney by the name of Lon Babby, who also represents players such as Grant Hill and Nikki McCray. I have the loving support of my girlfriend who still attends Wake Forest and is nearing graduation. She helps me cope with the everyday rigors of being an NBA player.

I'm surrounded by nothing but great people. Ive been blessed with that, so really, I've got no choice but to be an all-around good person.

At this point, if I were to psychoanalyze myself, I'd have to say I am a clown, cleverly disguised as a regular person. I enjoy jokes, smiling, and making people smile. I may be a little different, but that's OK, who wants to be normal anyway?

In fact, its this "different" nature that will probably fuel my next endeavor, a clothing line bearing a new style for the new millenium. Its called Ultimate Rejects wear. Back at Wake Forest, I had a penchant (and still do to this day) of cutting off the sleeves of all my T-shirts and wearing my shorts backwards. I guess Ive always wanted to be an original. One of my former coaches in college, Jerry Wainwright, came up with the name. One day at Wake, we were just messing around, cutting my sleeves off everything when he came up with this brilliant idea. He thought we should start a line of clothes where you don't really know what youre gonna get when you buy it. You know a clothing line with surprise blemishes. You might, for instance, buy a pair of pants, and have one long leg and one short leg. Or you might buy another pair that turned pink after you washed it one time. Perhaps another time, you would notice nothing wrong with your pants until you took them off and discovered it dyed your skin purple.

We will have Ultimate Rejects wear in finer clothing stores any day now. We're still waiting for a patent to come through on our SuperShrinker solution that will actually shrink the clothes down eight sizes so that youre only able to wear them once. It might not be user-friendly, but at least it'll keep you coming back for more.

You see, in order to overcome my dull image, I've figured out that Ive got to start doing everything the way everybody else does. You know, "Be Like Mike" as our culture says. Michael Jordan rules our sports universe, so Ive to start adapting, so everyone can see just how exciting and eccentric I can be. Now do you see where I'm coming from? Michael has a clothing line (Brand Jordan), thus I will have a clothing line (Ultimate Rejects, maybe Nike will buy into it also). I'm still working on a special shoe (Another hint to Nike), aromatic cologne and a restaurant bearing my name, believe me I'm trying (OK, I'm not trying hardOK, not at all, but maybe one day).

All right, time's up. Now you know who I am or maybe you don't, you figure it out.

[MajicMan]

Just because Duncan chooses not to engage in controversy, to just PLAY THE DAMN GAME OF BASKETBALL, he's ROBOTIC? BULLSHIT. He's one of the best role models in the NBA and it's really sad that he isn't treated as such.

-Mars
Oh but he is. He's always been regarded as the "good boy" and "role model". I don't know how you claim otherwise.

[duncan228]

Henry Abbott from ESPN's True Hoop wrote about Duncan's "cardboard personality" last May.

(There are links in the article, for some reason they didn't transfer with the cut/paste, use the link below to see the clips Abbott refers to.)

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-24-135/Kindly-Cast-Your-Spell-On-Us-Now--Tim-Duncan.html

Kindly Cast Your Spell On Us Now, Tim Duncan

Yesterday I asked you to send me links to the most enlightening Tim Duncan articles, interviews, and videos that you could find.

The NBA's reality is that we are deep into the Tim Duncan era -- he is the dominant player of the day -- and yet whenever he is on TV almost no one wants to watch. This year's Finals promise to deliver low ratings.

My knee-jerk response is: watch! Watch him, specifically. Watch tonight. What he does is truly amazing. He owns that paint. And he's so unbelievably efficient. If you get in a certain mood, it's stunning to see.

But I realize that's not for everyone, and unless people can find something to latch onto from this man's character, the "cardboard personality" factor could continue crippling the league for years to come.

But it's a myth that he isn't fascinating. He just isn't comfortable being fascinating in a way that works for typical sports media. (In fact, I think you could make the case that he knows exactly how to be fascinating, but is calculating and intentionally not so.)

The interesting stuff is in there, for sure. It's just not easy to find. TrueHoop reader Terremoto sent me an email that makes it frightfully clear to me how Tim Duncan needs to be marketed to the world: as a wizard. I'm serious! Terremoto writes:

Tim Duncan is the NBA's first superstar nerd. I find it very interesting that Tim Duncan's off the court pursuits include sword and knife collecting, Dungeons & Dragons, fantasy videogames & paintball. Add to that, dude's got a freakin' tattoo of Merlin from Arthurian lore! His other tat is of a Skeleton Jester. No barbed wire or homages to dead relatives here. Just pure (and endearing) D&D nerdcore.

Another NERDCORE story: He wanted his nickname to be "Merlin" when he first got to the league, but his teammates weren't having it.

Wizard. Merlin. D&D. Nerdcore (a word I am using for the first time right now.) Love it or hate it, it's the first true thing about Tim Duncan that everyone can understand in a heartbeat. Everyone knows a dude or two like that.

And that is really him.

I want to see him in a Wizard costume, casting spells, at every NBA event until further notice.

Of course, readers sent me far more than just that.

One of the best stories out there is this documentary about his relationship with Gregg Popovich. Tim Duncan is a good person -- the kind of person who should be celebrated as a role model. Isn't that what we always said we wanted from our basketball players?

S.L. Price wrote a nice Duncan story called "The Quiet Man" (should be here, although link doesn't seem to work at the moment) about Duncan when he was named Sportsman of the Year with his teammate David Robinson. It includes this insightful passage:

Television ratings for the 2003 NBA Finals were down one third from the year before--down, in fact, to their lowest level since the Nielsen rating system began keeping track of the Finals in 1976. Only one thing had changed since 2002: The small-market Spurs, led by Duncan, were back. Here he was at last, the athlete all the moralists and parents and columnists had been seeking for years, the role model, the anti-Me-Me-Me man, finally coming into his own, showcasing the type of game that hoops aficionados had feared was passing into history. But when it came time to watch, Duncan was found lacking.

Does he have to talk the talk, too? Maybe the NBA, in seeking to jack up ratings with years of personality marketing (Shaq! Michael! The Showdown!), has sold the game so far down the river that excellence isn't enough anymore. Maybe Duncan is the litmus test for separating the pure fan from those who are there for the spectacle. Maybe we like (or need) to watch a superstar perp-walk into a police station. Maybe, in the end, we say we value one thing--teamwork, humility, good citizenship--but really want its opposite and switching channels makes it easy to avoid the obvious. Nobody likes being caught in a lie.

This is, I am told (and would love confirmation UPDATE: Not only is it real, but the writer who helped make the assignment reality was none other than my old HOOP colleague Darryl Howerton who is a role model of Tim Duncan appreciation), Tim Duncan's psychoanalysis of himself, from the 1998 lockout, which was published in the March 1999 issue of Sport magazine. As reproduced on a blog I have never heard of, here is a key excerpt:

I'm sure that right now you are all thinking that I must be crazy. But, I assure you, I am normal, I told you I just am always thinking, sometimes about really crazy random things. But in all seriousness, it really should be difficult for me to be too strange. After all, a great family raised me. I had great friends, support and teaching at Wake Forest. I came to a first-class organization in the Spurs family. My best friend from college, Marc Scott, is my business manager, handling my day-to-day operations. And my agent is an attorney by the name of Lon Babby, who also represents players such as Grant Hill and Nikki McCray. I have the loving support of my girlfriend who still attends Wake Forest and is nearing graduation. She helps me cope with the everyday rigors of being an NBA player.

I'm surrounded by nothing but great people. I've been blessed with that, so really, I've got no choice but to be an all-around good person.

At this point, if I were to psychoanalyze myself, I'd have to say I am a clown, cleverly disguised as a regular person. I enjoy jokes, smiling, and making people smile. I may be a little different, but that's OK, who wants to be normal anyway?

There's a whole bunch more Tim Duncan insight out there. For instance:

Video evidence he's a bit of a goofball. And if a poem to brisket doesn't prove it, nothing will.

Listen to the audio at the end of this Lang Whitaker post, and you'll hear that he cooks, and is proud of his green bean casserole.

Duncan has an online diary that he updates a couple times a decade. What can you learn from that? Stuff like he likes spending time with his wife and dogs (one of which, I have heard, is a "cockapoo").

Here is Tim Duncan on video talking about his promise to his deceased mom to stay in school.

Here is a whole mess of Tim Duncan factoids and speculation (Did he take a Chinese course at Wake Forest to impress a woman? Does he dress up for Renaissance Fairs? Does he ride four-wheelers with friends around his house in Texas?) from sources of varying credibility.

This Associated Press article gives a sense of the classy way he relates to people off the court.

Remember when he was in major national ad campaigns?

Tim Duncan, professional wrestling fan, certainly appreciates showmanship in other venues. Let's fit him for that wizard costume. Seven feet tall, in silver and black, please.

[Galileo]

Henry Abbott from ESPN's True Hoop wrote about Duncan's "cardboard personality" last May.

(There are links in the article, for some reason they didn't transfer with the cut/paste, use the link below to see the clips Abbott refers to.)

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-24-135/Kindly-Cast-Your-Spell-On-Us-Now--Tim-Duncan.html

Kindly Cast Your Spell On Us Now, Tim Duncan

Yesterday I asked you to send me links to the most enlightening Tim Duncan articles, interviews, and videos that you could find.

The NBA's reality is that we are deep into the Tim Duncan era -- he is the dominant player of the day -- and yet whenever he is on TV almost no one wants to watch. This year's Finals promise to deliver low ratings.

My knee-jerk response is: watch! Watch him, specifically. Watch tonight. What he does is truly amazing. He owns that paint. And he's so unbelievably efficient. If you get in a certain mood, it's stunning to see.

But I realize that's not for everyone, and unless people can find something to latch onto from this man's character, the "cardboard personality" factor could continue crippling the league for years to come.

But it's a myth that he isn't fascinating. He just isn't comfortable being fascinating in a way that works for typical sports media. (In fact, I think you could make the case that he knows exactly how to be fascinating, but is calculating and intentionally not so.)

The interesting stuff is in there, for sure. It's just not easy to find. TrueHoop reader Terremoto sent me an email that makes it frightfully clear to me how Tim Duncan needs to be marketed to the world: as a wizard. I'm serious! Terremoto writes:

Tim Duncan is the NBA's first superstar nerd. I find it very interesting that Tim Duncan's off the court pursuits include sword and knife collecting, Dungeons & Dragons, fantasy videogames & paintball. Add to that, dude's got a freakin' tattoo of Merlin from Arthurian lore! His other tat is of a Skeleton Jester. No barbed wire or homages to dead relatives here. Just pure (and endearing) D&D nerdcore.

Another NERDCORE story: He wanted his nickname to be "Merlin" when he first got to the league, but his teammates weren't having it.

Wizard. Merlin. D&D. Nerdcore (a word I am using for the first time right now.) Love it or hate it, it's the first true thing about Tim Duncan that everyone can understand in a heartbeat. Everyone knows a dude or two like that.

And that is really him.

I want to see him in a Wizard costume, casting spells, at every NBA event until further notice.

Of course, readers sent me far more than just that.

One of the best stories out there is this documentary about his relationship with Gregg Popovich. Tim Duncan is a good person -- the kind of person who should be celebrated as a role model. Isn't that what we always said we wanted from our basketball players?

S.L. Price wrote a nice Duncan story called "The Quiet Man" (should be here, although link doesn't seem to work at the moment) about Duncan when he was named Sportsman of the Year with his teammate David Robinson. It includes this insightful passage:

Television ratings for the 2003 NBA Finals were down one third from the year before--down, in fact, to their lowest level since the Nielsen rating system began keeping track of the Finals in 1976. Only one thing had changed since 2002: The small-market Spurs, led by Duncan, were back. Here he was at last, the athlete all the moralists and parents and columnists had been seeking for years, the role model, the anti-Me-Me-Me man, finally coming into his own, showcasing the type of game that hoops aficionados had feared was passing into history. But when it came time to watch, Duncan was found lacking.

Does he have to talk the talk, too? Maybe the NBA, in seeking to jack up ratings with years of personality marketing (Shaq! Michael! The Showdown!), has sold the game so far down the river that excellence isn't enough anymore. Maybe Duncan is the litmus test for separating the pure fan from those who are there for the spectacle. Maybe we like (or need) to watch a superstar perp-walk into a police station. Maybe, in the end, we say we value one thing--teamwork, humility, good citizenship--but really want its opposite and switching channels makes it easy to avoid the obvious. Nobody likes being caught in a lie.

This is, I am told (and would love confirmation UPDATE: Not only is it real, but the writer who helped make the assignment reality was none other than my old HOOP colleague Darryl Howerton who is a role model of Tim Duncan appreciation), Tim Duncan's psychoanalysis of himself, from the 1998 lockout, which was published in the March 1999 issue of Sport magazine. As reproduced on a blog I have never heard of, here is a key excerpt:

I'm sure that right now you are all thinking that I must be crazy. But, I assure you, I am normal, I told you I just am always thinking, sometimes about really crazy random things. But in all seriousness, it really should be difficult for me to be too strange. After all, a great family raised me. I had great friends, support and teaching at Wake Forest. I came to a first-class organization in the Spurs family. My best friend from college, Marc Scott, is my business manager, handling my day-to-day operations. And my agent is an attorney by the name of Lon Babby, who also represents players such as Grant Hill and Nikki McCray. I have the loving support of my girlfriend who still attends Wake Forest and is nearing graduation. She helps me cope with the everyday rigors of being an NBA player.

I'm surrounded by nothing but great people. I've been blessed with that, so really, I've got no choice but to be an all-around good person.

At this point, if I were to psychoanalyze myself, I'd have to say I am a clown, cleverly disguised as a regular person. I enjoy jokes, smiling, and making people smile. I may be a little different, but that's OK, who wants to be normal anyway?

There's a whole bunch more Tim Duncan insight out there. For instance:

Video evidence he's a bit of a goofball. And if a poem to brisket doesn't prove it, nothing will.

Listen to the audio at the end of this Lang Whitaker post, and you'll hear that he cooks, and is proud of his green bean casserole.

Duncan has an online diary that he updates a couple times a decade. What can you learn from that? Stuff like he likes spending time with his wife and dogs (one of which, I have heard, is a "cockapoo").

Here is Tim Duncan on video talking about his promise to his deceased mom to stay in school.

Here is a whole mess of Tim Duncan factoids and speculation (Did he take a Chinese course at Wake Forest to impress a woman? Does he dress up for Renaissance Fairs? Does he ride four-wheelers with friends around his house in Texas?) from sources of varying credibility.

This Associated Press article gives a sense of the classy way he relates to people off the court.

Remember when he was in major national ad campaigns?

Tim Duncan, professional wrestling fan, certainly appreciates showmanship in other venues. Let's fit him for that wizard costume. Seven feet tall, in silver and black, please.

that was a kick ass article!

[gmartin02]

more BS.
First of all, if you're not a basketball fan, basketball isn't interesting.
If you like basketball, you can watch the cool bank shots of Duncan.
If you like hot-dogs, drugs, sex, whining, pouting, ball-hogs, arrests, etc., you can go with Kobe.

I love Duncan, and I'm a basketball fan, but when the Spurs make the finals, even a lot of basketball (non Spurs) fans don't want to watch "boringball" in the finals.

The last 3 Spurs finals appearances had the 3 lowest tv ratings for finals since 1981 (the year before Finals began being played in June, after network sweeps weeks).

A few more Spurs finals appearances and the NBA as we know it will be out of business, and nobody wants that, so its time to trade Duncan, get rid of Pop and retool for a more up tempo offense :)

[dbreiden83080]

I love Duncan, and I'm a basketball fan, but when the Spurs make the finals, even a lot of basketball (non Spurs) fans don't want to watch "boringball" in the finals.

The last 3 Spurs finals appearances had the 3 lowest tv ratings for finals since 1981 (the year before Finals began being played in June, after network sweeps weeks).


The ratings for the NBA are just bad in general these days. All star game ratings were just the lowest in history, have gotten lower every year since it has gone to TNT. Ratings were decent for Spurs and Pistons and only a little better the following year with Heat and Mavs in the finals. Last year they were the worst ever, now why would that happen if James is supposed to be this beloved superstar???? Jordan in his prime could have played a JV girls B-Ball team at 3 AM and people would have tuned in. The ratings in the NBA are not a Spurs problem, it is a leaguewide problem.

[DazedAndConfused]

You can argue with me all you want, but the fact is the general public is by and large not interested in watching Tim Duncan or the Spurs play basketball. Look at the TV ratings for the past few NBA Finals the Spurs were a part of........they've consistently set record lows.

[tim4mvp!]

it is a shame that people dont realize the things tim brings to the table, leadership and and delivers when you need him. he is mvp

[DazedAndConfused]

I love watching Duncan play and so do most people who are actually true fans of basketball. The casual fan just isn't that interested in him.

[dbreiden83080]

You can argue with me all you want, but the fact is the general public is by and large not interested in watching Tim Duncan or the Spurs play basketball. Look at the TV ratings for the past few NBA Finals the Spurs were a part of........they've consistently set record lows.

I am not arguing anything with you, i am giving you the facts here buddy. 2006 finals Mavs and Heat ratings averaged a 9.5. In 2005 they averaged a 8.1 and game 7 did an 11.9. Last year's ratings were in the toilet which would suggest that if the public thinks the series will not be competitive they won't watch. What do you have to say about the All Star game ratings being the lowest in NBA history??? Was that because Tim Duncan played in the game?? What i am telling you is not a secret to anyone who has been following this. The NBA has an image problem that has transcended itself into a ratings problem that is not isolated to the Spurs, it is leaguewide.

[DazedAndConfused]

If BOS and LA play in the Finals the NBA would prob. set record ratings. If SAS and DET play again your looking at record lows. The reality is the public by and large just doesn't find SAS exciting.

[Obstructed_View]

If BOS and LA play in the Finals the NBA would prob. set record ratings. If SAS and DET play again your looking at record lows. The reality is the public by and large just doesn't find SAS exciting.
When NBA fans who spend their time on message boards discussing NBA basketball don't understand team basketball or defense, or don't think players like Ginobili and Parker are exciting to watch, why would the general public?That's what reality shows are for.

And if SAS and DET play again I'm looking at one of the the best basketball matchups. I don't give a shit if the rest of you aren't smart enough to appreciate it.

[dbreiden83080]

If BOS and LA play in the Finals the NBA would prob. set record ratings. If SAS and DET play again your looking at record lows. The reality is the public by and large just doesn't find SAS exciting.

Poor example on your part which only helps my point. If it takes 2 mega markets to come together and play for ratings to be good what does that say for the league as a whole?? Were the ratings great when the Mavs and Heat played?? Nope. Ratings have only been good since Jordan left the Bulls when the Lakers were in the finals and by good it still pails in comaprison to the ratings were when Jordan was in the finals. Like i said leaguewide problem not an isolated issue.

[duncan228]

And if SAS and DET play again I'm looking at one of the the best basketball matchups. I don't give a shit if the rest of you aren't smart enough to appreciate it.

Well said.
There's a reason I always read your posts.

[Galileo]

You can argue with me all you want, but the fact is the general public is by and large not interested in watching Tim Duncan or the Spurs play basketball. Look at the TV ratings for the past few NBA Finals the Spurs were a part of........they've consistently set record lows.

This is all media promotion. There is a media conspiracy blackout of Tim Duncan, just like with Ron Paul.

[dbreiden83080]

I will apprreciate it as well, Spurs/Pistons will be a great series if it happens. I just laugh at those that feel the Spurs are somehow holding the NBA back from mega ratings. There is no proof of that whatsoever. Does the NFL have a problem selling a number of teams in the Superbowl??? Hell no ratings are through the roof every year nomatter who plays. NBA is at the point where if 2 mega markets do not play nobody watches. Last year was a perfect example as everyone said Lebron's so called "Star Power" would bring in the ratings, that did not happen did it????

[Obstructed_View]

Since Green Bay is one of the most popular teams in the NFL, and that sport has been doing fine without a team in the second largest TV market, I'm quite sure the problem is with ESPN's marketing department. Most of the country is still in the "trying to beat 'em" phase when it comes to the Spurs. They won't keep doing that forever.