Which Trade was worse: Suns or Mavs?

[ludda]

I'd say enough games have gone by to have some evaluation of the Snaq/Kidd trades.

Phx is obviously doing worse, but at the same time:
-they got bigger while the Mavs got "smaller"
-they may take longer to adjust to Snaq in their O schemes
-Nash is playing worse, while Amare is playing better, so is it really Snaq's fault?

Mavs are 4-4 with Kidd, look up and down:
-Still think their dependence on Erica Dampiera will be a big problem in the playoffs
-showed they could hang with the big boys, but still have a crap ass road record
-Is Kidd contributing enough to make a big difference? Dirk is playing better but probably b/c he gives a shit now, but their offense is still really iso heavy which doesn't play to Kidd's strengths

Which will help more in the long run do you think?

[Findog]

Still think their dependence on Erica Dampiera will be a big problem in the playoffs

We don't beat the Spurs two years ago without Erick Dampier. The worst you can say about him is that he doesn't earn his $10 million a year because of his stone hands. He rebounds and he's a good interior defender.

Both teams need to start winning games, it doesn't get any simpler than that. But the Mavs went down on their final possession to San Antonio and LA on the road, they played Utah to the wire on the road when it was their fourth game in five nights. They've done all of this as a two-man team because Josh is recovering from a back injury and his mind is elsewhere because of personal problems. We didn't lose to Detroit at home by 30 points. We didn't lose to Philadelphia at home. We're not giving up 120 points a game. You can malign Dallas' defense all you want, but at worst it's mediocre. Going to be tough to beat Houston tomorrow night without Dirk.

[The Franchise]

Phoenix definitely.

[LakerMagic]

Easily the Suns trade for Shaq. Mavs have still been competitive.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Suns are just sad so far.

Mavericks are still really good, just not as great as they've been before.

[Findog]

Suns are just sad so far.

Mavericks are still really good, just not as great as they've been before.

That's probably a fair assessment. I still think if we can put it all together like we're capable of, we can do major damage in the playoffs, but Murphy's Law is in effect for us right now. Fuckin' Dirk. I can't complain too much, guys have gotten F2's for much less, but goddamnit, we need to start winning in the worst way. Why couldn't we be playing the Knicks tomorrow night?
:pctoss

[ludda]

Yes I realize Phx sucks hardcore right now, but I'm saying do they have bigger upside than the Mavs down the road?

Are the Mavs going to get MUCH better than they are right now with Kidd (competitive, but just not there)?

I guess, I could see the Suns clicking at some point, how much better they will be is the question.

[remingtonbo2001]

It started with the Kurt Thomas trade.

If they keep Thomas, I think they keep Marion and their status as an elite team.

Their bad move was trading Thomas. They wouldn've never needed O'neal and would've added Hill (vetern leadership)

You would have youthful rotation players in Barbosa, Diaw, Stoudmire, and Bell

Your vetern leadership would come from Thomas, Hill, Marion and Nash.

Dallas' Mistake wasn't the Kidd trade. It was the fact they let Nash go.
If Dallas had kept Nash, they would've won in 06. Dirk and Nash would have created one of the most formidable duo's on the offensive end.

Now, tell me which of these two situations was more costly.

[Findog]

Yes I realize Phx sucks hardcore right now, but I'm saying do they have bigger upside than the Mavs down the road?

Are the Mavs going to get MUCH better than they are right now with Kidd (competitive, but just not there)?

Keep in mind just how awful Josh Howard has been. His back is going to heal and he's going to get it together in his personal life eventually. And there is no tougher test than having to play @ LA, San Antonio and Utah. You could make an argument that those games and @ Boston and Detroit are as difficult as it gets in the NBA. The Lakers needed 50 points from Kobe and an awful performance from Josh Howard and it came down to a final possession. The Spurs didn't put Dallas away until the final play of the game on a night when Josh sucked again. Utah is the toughest venue for road teams, we were playing our fourth game in five nights and the game went to the wire. This is what we're doing when we're playing far from our best basketball. I saw Simmons sneering dismissal of us in his basketball blog today. It was foolish of Mavs fans to pop off after beating Minnesota and Memphis with Kidd, and it's equally as foolish to completely dismiss us now. We'll enter the playoffs as a darkhorse.

I said from the beginning to check back on Dallas after Kidd has had 10-15 games with this team.

[Findog]

I
If Dallas had kept Nash, they would've won in 06. Dirk and Nash would have created one of the most formidable duo's on the offensive end.
.

And tell me how many stops that team is getting on the defensive end? We used Nash's salary slot to sign Dampier. Without Dampier, who is guarding Duncan? Nash and Dirk together were never getting past the Spurs.

[mavsfan1000]

The mavs Will be better. As of now they've had some bad luck with a cruel schedule. They are going to go on a big winning streak soon.

[ElNono]

I personally think Dallas got worse. Time will tell wether I'm right or wrong.
That said, quoting the big Aristotle: "Phoenix got worser"
The Suns are very out of sync, with the exception of Amare. Nash doesn't even look like the same guy. I think some players are starting to tune D'Antoni out.

[I H8 Mavs Fans]

Dallas

[mavsfan1000]

Dallas
Can't take any of your opinions seriously with that name. You are obviously quite biased.

[san antonio spurs]

Well I know both teams have to win games to stay in playoffs contention, but to say that Dallas is losing because their schedule is brutal or that they'll be better now because their schedule will be lighter is plain silly.
Both teams made those trades to win a championship. And as far as I'm concerned they lost to the main contenders. As we stand now, both trades are a failure.
We can't judge those trades on wins against lotery teams, we should judge them on their playoffs or championships potential achievements.

[mavsfan1000]

Well I know both teams have to win games to stay in playoffs contention, but to say that Dallas is losing because their schedule is brutal or that they'll be better now because their schedule will be lighter is plain silly.
Both teams made those trades to win a championship. And as far as I'm concerned they lost to the main contenders. As we stand now, both trades are a failure.
We can't judge those trades on wins against lotery teams, we should judge them on their playoffs or championships potential achievements.
How is that silly? 3 of the best home teams in the nba they lost to and they played 4 games in 5 nights while playing these teams. I don't think any team could have success. Those are not playoff conditions. Those are exhausting regular season schedules that wore them down. Finally they get to rest.

[I H8 Mavs Fans]

Can't take any of your opinions seriously with that name. You are obviously quite biased.

OH no, you can't take me seriously
:dramaquee

[Findog]

Dallas

Hi Jeff.

[Findog]

We can't judge those trades on wins against lotery teams, we should judge them on their playoffs or championships potential achievements.

Compare their performances against elite competition.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

the suns without question


they look completely lost out there, I almost feel sorry for them.

At least Dallas can hang with the elite teams, even though they need to start winning sooner, rather than later.

Oh, and T mac is a little bitch for his comments about Dirk needing to be suspended. He shouldn't worry about Dirk when it comes to a Utah.

I hope Dallas kills the Rockets tomorrow.

[Findog]

the suns without question


they look completely lost out there, I almost feel sorry for them.

At least Dallas can hang with the elite teams, even though they need to start winning sooner, rather than later.

Oh, and T mac is a little bitch for his comments about Dirk needing to be suspended. He shouldn't worry about Dirk when it comes to a Utah.

I hope Dallas kills the Rockets tomorrow.

We can only hope the wounded tiger theory is in full effect tomorrow night.

[mavsfan1000]

OH no, you can't take me seriously
:dramaquee
Yeah obviously you don't care. You just are a bitter person. No idea why you are so anti-mavs but I'm sure you have your reasons in your sick little world.

[san antonio spurs]

Compare their performances against elite competition.
They both lost.
Would you rather lose in the playoffs by a bigger margin or smaller margin? I personnaly think it doesn't matter. If one of those teams would've actuay won a game I could say whose trade is worse. But at this point I have to say they both failed and none is worse or better than the other.

[WalterBenitez]

Phoenix!!!

[DaDakota]

Both Dallas and Phoenix made panic moves and got worse, they were both contenders already and should have tweaked instead of overhauled.

The Spurs, Rockets, Lakers, and Jazz all got better.....the Lakers....REALLY better.....

But the Mavs and Suns...got worse....

DD

[Findog]

They both lost.
Would you rather lose in the playoffs by a bigger margin or smaller margin? I personnaly think it doesn't matter. If one of those teams would've actuay won a game I could say whose trade is worse. But at this point I have to say they both failed and none is worse or better than the other.

A loss is a loss, but this thread is debating which team is worse as a result of their trade or which trade is worse. The OP is asking for a comparison so here it is:the Mavs have fared better against elite competition.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

A loss is a loss, but this thread is debating which team is worse as a result of their trade or which trade is worse. The OP is asking for a comparison so here it is:the Mavs have fared better against elite competition.


exactly.

A loss is a loss, but whether or not Spurs fans want to admit it, contrary to popular belief, we aren't gonna sweep the Mavs simply because they lost Diop and Harris.

I think the Mavs got some rough breaks, but this homestand should get them back on their feet. I definitely don't wanna face them in round 1, that's for sure.

[J Zone]

I'd say PHO

[LazinessThievery]

A loss is a loss, but this thread is debating which team is worse as a result of their trade or which trade is worse. The OP is asking for a comparison so here it is:the Mavs have fared better against elite competition.

Lol, yeah, going 0-4 against those elite teams should be a source of pride. The being-on-the-road-excuse is also pretty lame. What kind of excuse is that? Last year they were 31-10 on the road. They "won in the hardest places to win in the NBA." This year they're a pathetic 14-19 on the road, the worst road record among the top-8 teams in the West. If they don't get home court in the 1st-round which is a strong likelihood, they're dead.

People thought Kidd would make a difference? The Mavs are 2-4 on the road with Kidd with the 2 wins coming against horrible teams. Kidd has made zero difference whatsoever.

What about the "Well, naturally there'd be an adjustment period" excuse?
Funny, but I don't recall anyone predicting the Mavs would experience a dropoff in play following the Kidd acquisition. Mavs fans in here expected DAL to dominate right away with Kidd making flashy passes all over the place and leaving a trail of glitter as he runs down the court. And if they did expect a dropoff, isn't that a bad strategic move? To acquire a guy and lose crucial games while he and the team adjust to each other? Can't have it both ways.

Also, how long is the adjustment period supposed to be anyway? 8 games would seem to be adequate for a veteran bunch of players to get it together, but I guess you'd keep extending the adjustment period/honeymoon until DAL actually starts to show something.

Plus, the "toughest teams in the NBA on the road" excuse is lame. You're supposed to elevate your play against those teams, and DAL didn't. Couldn't beat LAL even with their best post player Bynum out (what a surprise Damp then has his best game of the season, then vanishes the next game against good post players Boozer and Okur who dominate in the paint scoring 48 points combined), not to mention supposed All-World Dirk snaps under the pressure and commits that lame foul on Kirilenko. He hasn't changed, and the team hasn't either with Kidd on board. Simple as that.

Meanwhile SA quitely adds a couple of mere backups at the deadline and keeps rolling along. Kidd = panic move. SA, on the other hand, as it usually does at the deadline calmly makes few waves and ends up being the 2nd-hottest team in the league after the deadline. The difference between the two teams is personified by their best players. DAL like Dirk is hot-headed (Terry is a grade-A whiner), impulsive, weak defensively, and quails under pressure. SA like Duncan is calm, methodical, strong defensively, and responds positively to pressure. DAL is like Sonny in the Godfather, prone to making stupid impulsive decisions and getting wiped out. SA is Michael.

[Findog]

Lol, yeah, going 0-4 against those elite teams should be a source of pride.

Who said it was a source of pride?


The being-on-the-road-excuse is also pretty lame. What kind of excuse is that? Last year they were 31-10 on the road. They "won in the hardest places to win in the NBA." This year they're a pathetic 14-19 on the road, the worst road record among the top-8 teams in the West.

Last year was last year. This year is different. They're not the same team.


If they don't get home court in the 1st-round which is a strong likelihood, they're dead.

That's true whether our starting PG is Devin Harris or Jason Kidd.



People thought Kidd would make a difference? The Mavs are 2-4 on the road with Kidd with the 2 wins coming against horrible teams. Kidd has made zero difference whatsoever.

God, you're fucking stupid.


What about the "Well, naturally there'd be an adjustment period" excuse?
Funny, but I don't recall anyone predicting the Mavs would experience a dropoff in play following the Kidd acquisition.

Nobody said they'd be firing on all cylinders either.


Mavs fans in here expected DAL to dominate right away with Kidd making flashy passes all over the place and leaving a trail of glitter as he runs down the court.

Who are these "Mav fans" you speak of?


And if they did expect a dropoff, isn't that a bad strategic move? To acquire a guy and lose crucial games while he and the team adjust to each other? Can't have it both ways.

It's not about us or what we think, but what the front office thinks. This trade is just as much about next year as it is this one. Jason Kidd is a better player than Devin Harris, and the Mavericks are better off in his hands this year and next. There will come a time when Devin Harris is better than Kidd, but they weren't willing to wait on that day to come while Dirk's prime still has a shelf left of 2-3 years after this one. If you can't understand that, get a clue.




Plus, the "toughest teams in the NBA on the road" excuse is lame. You're supposed to elevate your play against those teams, and DAL didn't.

You are so fucking stupid. Those three games could've gone either way. Close doesn't cut it, and there are no moral victories when the West race is like this, but they can hang with the elite teams and almost beat them when Josh Howard is a basket case. Get a clue.


Meanwhile SA quitely adds a couple of mere backups at the deadline and keeps rolling along. Kidd = panic move. SA, on the other hand, as it usually does at the deadline calmly makes few waves and ends up being the 2nd-hottest team in the league after the deadline. The difference between the two teams is personified by their best players. DAL like Dirk is hot-headed (Terry is a grade-A whiner), impulsive, weak defensively, and quails under pressure. SA like Duncan is calm, methodical, strong defensively, and responds positively to pressure. DAL is like Sonny in the Godfather, prone to making stupid impulsive decisions and getting wiped out. SA is Michael.

Hi Jeff.

[Tradition]

Suns got the worse end but the Mavs have some serious problems on the defensive end. Their O will get going and kick it in high gear. Their perimeter defense is going to be what will constantly get raped in the playoffs. It is a VERY serious issue they have had since June 2006 and it hasnt gotten any better. Mavs will stay competitive and wont be a walk in the park but they arent going anywhere near a championship when perimeter superstar players can score in anyway they want to.

[Trainwreck2100]

Oh great, another guy to sign his own posts

[sabar]

Anyone that has watched the games knows that the Suns are much worse off than Dallas. Dallas at least looks decent on the court while the Suns get blown out and Shaq gets an amazing 6 points.

Dallas can easily rise back up in the standings. The Suns are on the verge of sinking out of the playoffs with their .500 ball.

[ata]

In short term: Suns
Long term: I think Mavs

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

We can only hope the wounded tiger theory is in full effect tomorrow night.
I think it's possible. Houston's streak has to end some time. Plus the team will get to see Kidd as the lone leader on the court.

[mbass]

It started with the Kurt Thomas trade.

If they keep Thomas, I think they keep Marion and their status as an elite team.

Their bad move was trading Thomas. They wouldn've never needed O'neal and would've added Hill (vetern leadership)

You would have youthful rotation players in Barbosa, Diaw, Stoudmire, and Bell

Your vetern leadership would come from Thomas, Hill, Marion and Nash.

Dallas' Mistake wasn't the Kidd trade. It was the fact they let Nash go.
If Dallas had kept Nash, they would've won in 06. Dirk and Nash would have created one of the most formidable duo's on the offensive end.

Now, tell me which of these two situations was more costly.

It's a toss up. I was shocked when Phoenix let Thomas go - what were they thinking. He guarded Duncan really well - and it would have allowed them to keep Marion. Keep Thomas then they don't need Shaq.


Dallas letting Nash go was absolutely just as stupid - they've been looking for a good point guard ever since. Keep Nash and they get to keep Harris and Diop - who could guard Duncan.

[DaDakota]

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h10/qdoublea/ponys.jpg

Both the Mavs and Suns got worse....ROFLMAO...panic boys..panic.

[SAGambler]

I think Suns by far got the worst end of the deal. Shaq was brought in to provide defense. Their defense has gotten worse, with team regularly putting up 120 points every night. And, I don't see Shaq helping them next year either. He will be older and slower.

I think right now, the Suns are in such disaray they don't make the playoffs, Kerr is fired, D'antoni might be fired, and they will try to somehow convince another team to take on Shaqs 20 million contract over the offseason. You also have to wonder how long Nash will stick around if they go down the tubes this year after a great start. I think the Sun is sinking fast in the Valley of the Sun.

[ATRAIN]

My only question is where has Da_Suns_Fan been hahah damn loser!!

[BUMP]

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h10/qdoublea/ponys.jpg

Both the Mavs and Suns got worse....ROFLMAO...panic boys..panic.
http://file.shanghaidaily.com/News/Image//2008/2008-02/2008-02-27/20080227_350198_01.jpg

good luck in the first round boys :smokin

[DaDakota]

good luck in the first round boys :smokin

Why are you guys playing Golden State again?

;)

DD

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Suns by a mile. Kidd is a known quantity. He's a step slower than his prime, but he's going to be able to maintain a fairly high level of play probably for another season or two, maybe more. His game was never all about his athleticism. He's bounced back from injuries that have completely derailed other careers. Shaq on the other hand was never anything but a genetic lottery winner. With his body breaking down he's got nothing left.

Compounding matters is that I think Shaq definitely represents the bigger black sheep of the deal. AJ is at least a fairly competent coach. Given enough time I think he'll find a way to make Kidd work in Dallas. D'Antoni is about as crappy a coach as you'll find in the NBA. Given a million years I think you'll still see him trying to play Shaq for 30+ minutes a game and running him around in the high post.

All things equal I have no trouble believing that the Mavs can be just as good, probably better next year with their roster exactly as is. The Suns are up shit creek with no draft picks to paddle with.

[1Parker1]

Suns. I don't even think it's a contest. They could have gotten someone a lot better for Marion than Shaq. And they should have tried to trade Amare for KG when they had the chance and kept Marion.

[Findog]

Why are these Rockets trolls coming out of the woodwork? Because they have an incredible winning streak? What difference will that make in the end? Get the fuck back to ClutchCity.net

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2XxT0zI2W7Y

[hater]

And tell me how many stops that team is getting on the defensive end? We used Nash's salary slot to sign Dampier. Without Dampier, who is guarding Duncan? Nash and Dirk together were never getting past the Spurs.


Dude in your last few posts you seem to forget it was Diop who was main reason Mavs beat Spurs. Not Erica.

[Findog]

Dude in your last few posts you seem to forget it was Diop who was main reason Mavs beat Spurs. Not Erica.

Fuck no it wasn't. Diop sat on the bench for all of regulation in Game 7 and Dampier banged on Duncan for 48 minutes. Then in overtime Diop came off the bench with fresh legs while Duncan had been playing the whole game.

Diop and Dampier are not the main reasons we beat you guys, he wears #41. Without those two guys, we don't win the series, but Dirk was more important to the cause.

[hater]

all said, without Diop you don't win that series.

[Findog]

all said, without Diop you don't win that series.

He's not in the category of irreplaceable. Tim Duncan, Yao Ming, Dirk Nowitzki are irreplaceable. Diop and his decent shotblocking and zero offensive game are not hard to find.

[Obstructed_View]

I've been very critical of the Kidd trade, but unless the Mavs are on the hook for 60 million dollars to him, this isn't even close. As the anchor around their neck drags the Suns into salary cap hell, that sound above them is their window closing for good.

[Findog]

I've been very critical of the Kidd trade, but unless the Mavs are on the hook for 60 million dollars to him, this isn't even close. As the anchor around their neck drags the Suns into salary cap hell, that sound above them is their window closing for good.

Kidd's salary comes off the books after next year, but can this team overhaul and retool their roster for a title run next year? Who would want Jet and Stack's contract?

We need to get a low-post back to the basket scorer, and Josh Howard is our most valuable asset to get one back. Swingmen are easier to find and replace than low-post guys. If this thing is in the dumps a year from now, we can probably trade Kidd's expiring contract for something.

They can completely overhaul now, or try to do what Miami did two years ago and load up on veterans that still have a little bit left in the tank for one more run.

[stretch]

Kidd's salary comes off the books after next year, but can this team overhaul and retool their roster for a title run next year? Who would want Jet and Stack's contract?

We need to get a low-post back to the basket scorer, and Josh Howard is our most valuable asset to get one back. Swingmen are easier to find and replace than low-post guys. If this thing is in the dumps a year from now, we can probably trade Kidd's expiring contract for something.

They can completely overhaul now, or try to do what Miami did two years ago and load up on veterans that still have a little bit left in the tank for one more run.
Howard for Gerald Wallace or Corey Maggette.

[Findog]

Howard for Gerald Wallace or Corey Maggette.

If Elton Brand opts out, Cuban needs to make any and every player or asset available besides Dirk and Kidd.

[monosylab1k]

Howard for Gerald Wallace or Corey Maggette.
Why would those teams do either of those trades? Trading a top-notch slasher for a fadeaway jump shooter who plays shitty defense?

[stretch]

Why would those teams do either of those trades? Trading a top-notch slasher for a fadeaway jump shooter who plays shitty defense?
I don't know. What I do know is that I want Corey Maggette in Dallas. He drives relentlessly and gets to the line around 10 times a game. We need that when jumper's aren't falling.

Plus Maggette and Kidd would be a thing of beauty. Maggette is a terrific athlete.

[Shank]

Isn't Okafor at the end of his contract?

[mavsfan1000]

I'm starting to believe the Mavs got the worse deal. Diop and Harris have been great for New Jersey while Kidd has been sucking. He can't utilize his great passing anymore since he can't break defenses down.

[monosylab1k]

I'm starting to believe the Mavs got the worse deal. Diop and Harris have been great for New Jersey while Kidd has been sucking. He can't utilize his great passing anymore since he can't break defenses down.
What the fuck are you talking about? Did you just pull that out of your ass?

Diop is playing 12 minutes a game and his numbers are actually worse than they were in Dallas.

Harris is scoring points but only because they're letting him chuck. His shooting percent is atrocious. And his assist totals aren't anything to write home about.

[Shank]

I'm starting to believe the Mavs got the worse deal. Diop and Harris have been great for New Jersey while Kidd has been sucking. He can't utilize his great passing anymore since he can't break defenses down.

Diop hasn't done shit in NJ. And Kidd is still a great passer and hasn't sucked in his time in Dallas. Blame the coach and his offense first.

[mavsfan1000]

Diop hasn't done shit in NJ. And Kidd is still a great passer and hasn't sucked in his time in Dallas. Blame the coach and his offense first.
Diop doesn't need to fill up the stat sheet. He does what no one else does on this team with the exception of Dampier occassionally. Help defense. Yes this team can blame Avery first but the trade wasn't great either. We lost our 2 best defensive players and Kidd hasn't done enough on either side to make up for it. We are old and slow now.

[DaDakota]

It is about Chemistry.

Harris fit and was a player that was key to the team winning 67 games...not to mention he was Josh Howard's best friend.

You don't screw up chemistry....that is the reason the Rockets didn't add Artest...they kept their rookies because of chemistry.

It is the hardest thing to get with a team and it is so fragile.

The Spurs have it, the Rockets have it, the Mavs and Suns do not.

DD

[monosylab1k]

It is about Chemistry.
What is Rocket Fan doing lecturing about chemistry? Your two superstars have been the posterboys of "not a good match" for over 3 years now, they have yet to win a playoff series, you change coaches, and the front office has been tinkering with the roster like crazy the entire time.

Now you go on a nice winning streak in the middle of the regular season and you think you're the experts on chemistry? Fuck off.

[RonMexico]

Rockets and chemistry. Hilarious.

Dallas has Josh Howard. He's a chemistry killer from the get-go.

[DaDakota]

What is Rocket Fan doing lecturing about chemistry? Your two superstars have been the posterboys of "not a good match" for over 3 years now, they have yet to win a playoff series, you change coaches, and the front office has been tinkering with the roster like crazy the entire time.

Now you go on a nice winning streak in the middle of the regular season and you think you're the experts on chemistry? Fuck off.

The reason for all those changes was to get the chemistry right, as I said it is tough...

JVG was not the right fit, Adelman is....

Yao and Tmac are fine, but the role players around them were not...so they tweaked.....

You are just jealous as a Mavs fan because your team has lost that elusive chemistry...bummer...

DD

[RonMexico]

JVG instilled the only thing the Rockets have going for them - defense.

And he's a much smarter and funnier coach than Adelman.

[Budkin]

No question, Suns.

[JMarkJohns]

Jason Kidd was the worst acquisition as far as players go, but since coaching is the determining factor so often, I'm going to have to say the Suns made the worse trade because D'Antoni doesn't seem capable of pulling it all together. I'm not saying this team with another coach would win the Title, but I think Rick Carlisle could get the most out of the frontcourt and make them contenders.

D'Antoni is the weak link in the Suns attempt at a Title. Until either his ideal personnel is acquired, which no longer seems possible, or he's fired, the Suns aren't winning a damn thing.

For as bad as the Kidd trade is this season, I think Stackhouse/Howard in a sign-n-trade for Brand could go a long way in shoring up the Mavericks frontcourt, makin them contenders again.

[LEONARD]

Mavs will be fine...

[pussyface]

Why would those teams do either of those trades? Trading a top-notch slasher for a fadeaway jump shooter who plays shitty defense?

Agreed. Is there a more overrated defender in the NBA than Howard?
McGrady abused him on some possesions last night like a man against a boy. Howard tried to come back at him on offense and on a few occasions got shown a clinic by McGrady.

Is there a more underrated defender than McGrady by the way? I've seen him do some great things 1-on-1 against both Dirk and Howard through the years.