Pop gets upset with all the criticism...

[Jeremy]

...of Suns Coach Mike D'antoni:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0309sunsnotes.html

Interesting.

[MajicMan]

People hate Pringles because of his bitch faces

[Xylus]

I think Pop is wrong on this one.

[ChumpDumper]

Pop wants D'Antoni to keep his job.

[jag]

I think Pop is wrong on this one.

He was right when he referred to Suns fans as:

"...fans who are not knowledgeable, who react childishly."

[pickle girl]

Who gives a shit when you have 4 rings?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Pop just wants to stay classy

[ludda]

mind games. Giving Dan Tony a false sense of confidence in himself :smokin

[Tek_XX]

D'Antoni said some nice things about Ginobili so he's up in my book but still overall a negative impression.

[Supreme_Being]

Hah.

[Trainwreck2100]

Pop wants D'Antoni to keep his job.

bingo bango

[Obstructed_View]

Pop's comments weren't surprising; a coach is almost always going to defend another coach. What's really funny is that Pop insulted the Suns' fans in their hometown newspaper and 99 percent of them aren't even going to realize he did it.

[batboy]

No reason to burn bridges, we could always use him as a scout again when he gets fired. :P

[ShoogarBear]

In another news, Pop called the Lakers' firing of Kurt Rambis as head coach "a big mistake".

[DarrinS]

Next up, Pop defends Isiah Thomas.

[SenorSpur]

Pop needs to worry about getting his team to play better.

[samikeyp]

People hate Pringles because of his bitch faces

Pringles! :lmao :lmao

:tu

[JMarkJohns]

He was right when he referred to Suns fans as:

"...fans who are not knowledgeable, who react childishly."

No. He was wrong on this as well. He should have qualified such further by saying that's true of Suns fanatics.

However, any truth he may have said is completely undercut by his praise and defense of D'Antoni, whose blunders as a GM and Coach have cost the Suns dearly.

Here are some posts of mine from another board on this topic. Read them then tell me if they are ignorant, childish and rediculous and silly.


In bullet form...

- D'Antoni's offensive system is a thing of beauty. He's to be credited with its envisioning. If this were the NFL, and different players could play defense, then maybe he'd have won a Title or two as head coach.
- I agree that the Suns were locked in on a Title last year. Issues stood in their way, even without the suspensions, but they were as good as any team last season.
- Some of those issues stemmed from D'Antoni never developing Banks, Rose or Jumaine Jones throughout the season, nor ever giving James Jones and Kurt Thomas consistent minutes either.
- These directly affected the outcome of several games as the worn-out 7-man rotation just didn't have the gas to overcome late, especially once the suspensions eliminated two of the seven most played players.
- Aside from failing to integrate veterans, he also is on record as saying they, not drafted players, were better for the Suns. I believe such an opinion stems from his unwillingness or inability to develop young talent. You know as good as I do that he almost ruined Barbosa in 04-05. Iavaroni and Mike's brother, Dan, are most often credited for the development of Barbosa, Amare and Diaw. Mike failed to develop Jacobson, Zarko and Lampe, three top-30 picks who, while never making it anyways, showed promise under different coaches, but failed miserably under D'Antoni.

I don't trust D'Antoni as a coach. Not as a head coach because of his disdain towards set plays on offense, apathy towards defense, unwillingness to extend the rotation to save literally 5-to-10 games a year off the frames of his stars and his inability to integrate/develop young talent.

Is he a fine offensive mind? Sure. Can he do a team good? Sure. I just don't like him as a head coach. As a coach you have to change and adjust. D'Antoni is on record as saying he doesn't. He thinks that's what makes him great. No... that's what keeps you from being great.


The biggest problem with D'Antoni's need is his dependence upon the exact right kind of players. This is mostly because of -

1. His inability to play/develop young players: such leads to a dependence upon veterans, where he tends to overuse his top-7 and underuse his valuable 8th-through-10th players.
2. His inability to identify the right veteran players: for every Hill, there's Banks, Piatkowski, Grant, Marks... players getting paid millions to literally sit on the bench and require draft picks to trade.
3. Because of his inability to develop youth and find quality veteran role players year after year, his core is exhausted come the playoffs.

That's just approach. I haven't even mentioned his lack of fundamentals within offensive structure, relying upon an opportunistic offensive attack that's less and less effective as the defenses get better and better. By failing to incorporate actual structure, he's entirely dependent upon the defense making a mistake, something that the great teams just don't do enough of. Chaos is destructive, so, just because he claims it's a controlled chaos doesn't mean there isn't an element of destructive inability creating its foundation. When you throw in his absolute apathy towards defense and rebounding, it's damn near impossible to see a D'Antoni system win a Title without the absolute perfect combination of personnel, health and luck - like being able to dodge the Spurs in 05-06, but because of injury, they couldn't take advantage.

True, every team needs luck. The Spurs were lucky Horry's body-check elicited such a response from Amare and Diaw without one of the same from one of their integral players. However, some teams just need more of it and when your trying to win a Title, I don't think your success is likely if your best shot is always a gamble.

Maybe it's just me, but I haven't seen enough from D'Antoni to say he's a good coach. I think he's got some good philosophies, but think his approach is lacking, and his execution is average at best.


Tucker and Banks were 1st-rounders. Strawberry is a gifted athlete and should be netting more minutes. Skinner has proven capable of being a quality defender, shot-blocker, rebounder capable of hitting the 15-foot jumper, yet he nets a dozen minutes a game.

As for Pike, Grant, and Marks, you made my point for me. Instead of drafting youth to develop, he signed off on the trading of 1st-rounder after 1st-rounder for veterans whom he can't even work into the game. It's not just Pike, Grant and Marks, but also Jumaine Jones and Jalen Rose.

As for the rest of what you said, it's my contention that D'Antoni doesn't draft because he can't develop. Therefore it's as much his fault as anyones that the Suns depth is so old and unreliable. I mean, like I said with Banks and Tucker... specifically Tucker, a 1st-rounder coming off Big-10 POY honors as a senior at Wisconsin. He's got talent, but D'Antoni can't make it work, so he doesn't even try anymore. I'm with you, if the Suns had used any of the traded 1st-rounders, maybe their depth would be much more impactful. Or, going on history, maybe, since none could simply step in and thrive, they'd have been sat on the bench or, at best, given inconsistent minutes every third game or so?

Again, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I think D'Antoni is an average coach that's been successful because he's had A-list talent. He's a poor evaluator of talent, whether it be young or old, isn't a great game-planner and doesn't make the changes necessary to adapt and succeed.

Again, I'm not saying he's so poor a coach that he'd never win a Title, only that he'd require much more luck than one can expect to actually do so.


D'Antoni is on record as saying that several drafts he thought the Suns would be better off without 1st-rounders, taking the money and signing veterans. Instead taking a Marcus Williams, Rajon Rondo or Jordan Farmar, he signed Banks longterm. Instead of selecting Lee or Turiaf, he signed Brian Grant.

I'm telling you, D'Antoni had as much to do with those picks getting traded as Sarver had. As a matter of fact, since becoming coach mid-way through 03-04, and with four drafts and upwards of 8 1st-rounders to use, there's been but one 1st-rounder ever selected, Tucker. That's it.

At some point D'Antoni's admissions, past failings and these coincidences are going to have to convince you.

Again, we're not that opposed-minded on the topic. You seem to agree with several of the points I've made, and I agree that D'Antoni isn't the entire problem, nor is his system the entire problem and that, had the suspensions not been required last year, this could all be a moot point because the Suns finally appeared confident and talented enough to defeat the Spurs.

But as much as I hate to say it, D'Antoni is a weight around the necks of the Suns. His lack of structure, unwillingness to utilize depth and over-dependence upon exhausting his stars has become a burden that these Suns cannot bear.

You can argue they were fine with Marion, but the record begged to differ as the only reason the Suns were tops in record was their strength of schedule was last in the league up to that point. They were average, at best, against the League's best teams. Their defining win of the season up to that point was against a Parker-less Spurs team, or a Billups-less Pistons team.

The biggest problem is is that the Suns are a sinking ship. They've taken on water for several reasons, one of which is D'Antoni. Going forward however, D'Antoni just doesn't seem to be the coach that can salvage and save.

However, Jerry, I know the two of us can has this out until the season ends. No new points will be made. I agree with a great many you've made and you seem to agree with several of mine. The difference isn't so great. I'd love for D'Antoni to prove me wrong, even if it means losing an argument to you. :)

I realize some context is lost since I reference posts and comments without actually quoting them, but the overall gist is there.

D'Antoni has what it takes, but he's either too ignorant or too stubborn to play winning ball. Even now when it's plainly evident his greatest chance for winning would be to slow the game down, run set, deliberate half-court plays and focus on hustling for rebounds and loose balls, he'd still rather force things. This is why the turnovers have been so high, which is the biggest problem the Suns have had on offense, and one of the contributing factors to their recent losses. You can't average 15+ TOs a game and expect to win. By sticking with an opportunistic offense and depending upon the defense to make the mistakes rather than running plays that make them make mistakes, he's cost the Suns some valuable game-time practice to develop good halfcourt chemistry and possibly a handful of wins.

At some point every player, no matter how talented, needs to be coached and I don't think D'Antoni does enough of it, or enough with it.

[TampaDude]

Next up, Pop defends Isiah Thomas.

:lol

[E20]

http://www.sxszjzx.com/~c04/firework/18/logo4/TN_pringles.JPG
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20080214/i/r4015557714.jpg

Faint resemblance. :lol

[SouthernFried]

I agree about "most" Suns fans. A whinier bunch is hard to find. Every call...good or bad, was met with a level of immaturity you don't even see in Jr. High games.

I know there are great Suns fans, most of them are here. They just seem to have more non-great ones than most teams. Dunno why that is.

[Cherry]

http://www.sxszjzx.com/~c04/firework/18/logo4/TN_pringles.JPG
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20080214/i/r4015557714.jpg

Faint resemblance. :lol


:lmao

[spursfan09]

POPABITCH should shut the fuck up and go get plastic surgery. That is one UGLY son of a bitch!!!!!!!!! :lol


http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/popovich_gregg0428.jpg

And I'm sure you are a GQ model.

[BonnerDynasty]

Nice guys don't win in even years.

[Radiosparks]

Pop's comments weren't surprising; a coach is almost always going to defend another coach. What's really funny is that Pop insulted the Suns' fans in their hometown newspaper and 99 percent of them aren't even going to realize he did it.

Nailed it! :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Even now when it's plainly evident his greatest chance for winning would be to slow the game down, run set, deliberate half-court plays and focus on hustling for rebounds and loose balls, he'd still rather force things. This is why the turnovers have been so high, which is the biggest problem the Suns have had on offense, and one of the contributing factors to their recent losses.
I disagree completely. They need to learn how to run with Shaq on the floor. They need to allow their defense to disrupt passing lanes and get their hands on the ball, knowing they have a shot blocker in the lane to allow them to gamble, then they need to press when they get turnovers and rebounds. Shaq needs to be told to hit Nash immediately when he gets a rebound; I noticed yesterday that he stands there and waves the ball around, allowing the defense to get back. They are getting turnovers because they are trying to run half-court plays that they don't know how to do and Nash is having problems knowing where people are. The biggest problem the Suns have on offense is the fact that some of their players think 2001 Shaq is on the floor. Once they realize that he isn't then they'll be better.

D'Antoni is a terrible coach though. I agree with you about that.

[JMarkJohns]

They are getting turnovers because they are trying to run half-court plays that they don't know how to do and Nash is having problems knowing where people are.

Exactly... They are forcing the same opportunistic offense as before within this new personnel, and it simply doesn't fit. If they ran more plays, then they'd know how, and turnovers would go down. If they ran plays, then Shaq and Nash would know where the player is, and where he's going to be.

I'm not saying they shouldn't run when the opportunity presents itself, but when it's not there they need to have the ability to convert in the halfcourt.

They simply don't have the personnel to do the things they've been trying. I didn't get to see yesterday's game beyond the first quarter, but I'd watched several of the other w/ Shaq games and what I've said is exactly what missing.


The biggest problem the Suns have on offense is the fact that some of their players think 2001 Shaq is on the floor. Once they realize that he isn't then they'll be better.

Which is where I'm coming from again... Since this isn't 2001 Shaq, they need to run plays for him once the clock has gone to 15 or below and a good shot isn't imminent. They need to run plays, because Shaq can't just dominate down low like he once did, nor can he run in transition the way he once could.

I can't believe that you'd defend D'Antoni's chaotic offense. I hope I read it wrong. Like I said in my quoted posts, it's too dependent upon the defense making mistakes, which, against better and better teams, just isn't going to happen often enough for their offensive strengths to offset their defensive weaknesses.

Throw some half-court structure and design into the offense and I think it takes advantage of their strengths more than the current offense is.

[Obstructed_View]

Exactly... They are forcing the same opportunistic offense as before within this new personnel, and it simply doesn't fit. If they ran more plays, then they'd know how, and turnovers would go down. If they ran plays, then Shaq and Nash would know where the player is, and where he's going to be.

I'm not saying they shouldn't run when the opportunity presents itself, but when it's not there they need to have the ability to convert in the halfcourt.

They simply don't have the personnel to do the things they've been trying. I didn't get to see yesterday's game beyond the first quarter, but I'd watched several of the other w/ Shaq games and what I've said is exactly what missing.



Which is where I'm coming from again... Since this isn't 2001 Shaq, they need to run plays for him once the clock has gone to 15 or below and a good shot isn't imminent. They need to run plays, because Shaq can't just dominate down low like he once did, nor can he run in transition the way he once could.

I can't believe that you'd defend D'Antoni's chaotic offense. I hope I read it wrong. Like I said in my quoted posts, it's too dependent upon the defense making mistakes, which, against better and better teams, just isn't going to happen often enough for their offensive strengths to offset their defensive weaknesses.

Throw some half-court structure and design into the offense and I think it takes advantage of their strengths more than the current offense is.
Apologies in advance for the misspelled words.

My criticism of D'Antoni has always been his inability to make adjustments, his unwillingness to develop his bench or to even get a remotely competent backup point guard, his inability to utilize defensive players (like KT) and his constant whining about the officiating, which betrays an almost SpursDynasty lack of understanding of the rules of basketball. His offense is the last thing I'd criticise about him. If he's REALLY on board with this Shaq thing rather than having had it foisted upon him, I think he can make it work. Pronouncing it a failure is ridiculous. It's been fairly successful at generating points since it was implemented (sp?). Shaq's even looking good in the pick and roll, a marked improvement since he's arrived. That's a good sign.

The offense IS too reliant upon opponents' mistakes. It typically requires missed shots or turnovers in order to run. It's very one-dimensional, but it's good for generating cheap points. Now it can be used as an additional weapon, and it has to be used as often as possible. When they learn when to use it and when not to it becomes a great asset (sp?).

Where D'Antoni's offense historically fails is in the last few minutes of a tight game when the team needs to a.)burn some clock and b.)get high percentage shots. That's where a few good plays and Shaq come in. You can still take advantage of the skills of the players around him, and if you're smart, manage to avoid too many Shaq free throw attempts, since he's no longer the focal point, but just a threat (and a GREAT passer). In addition, you have the ability to play real half-court defense. Couple those together, with the ability to run and generate points (when appropriate) and you should have a team better suited to actually competing for a championship.

[JMarkJohns]

I've never said it was a failure, and I admit the offense isn't all that bad, but when the offense is all you had to begin with, and it takes a hit and is no longer enough to win you games, then you must adjust your philosophy enough to get to the point where you can win the games your supposed to and compete in those you made the trade for.

We seem to agree on every other point. Where my point comes in is from you second paragraph through your posts end.

[Obstructed_View]

I've never said it was a failure, and I admit the offense isn't all that bad, but when the offense is all you had to begin with, and it takes a hit and is no longer enough to win you games, then you must adjust your philosophy enough to get to the point where you can win the games your supposed to and compete in those you made the trade for.

We seem to agree on every other point. Where my point comes in is from you second paragraph through your posts end.

I have a feeling that you were suggesting that he stop trying to force things 100 percent of the time. If that's the case then I agree with you. So long as there's no abandonment of the running offense go get easy points. I think Shaq has to learn to improve the running game while improving the defense and the half-court offense, but I think he can do all of that by the time the playoffs roll around. A motivated Shaq is as dangerous to opponents as an unmotivated Shaq is to his own team.

[ChuckD]

Not surprising. Pop sticks up for everyone, even that POS Larry Brown. While he is a font of b-ball knowledge, it would be hard to find a worse human being in the NBA.

[Obstructed_View]

Larry Brown is his best friend. Just FYI.

[JMarkJohns]

I have a feeling that you were suggesting that he stop trying to force things 100 percent of the time. If that's the case then I agree with you. So long as there's no abandonment of the running offense go get easy points. I think Shaq has to learn to improve the running game while improving the defense and the half-court offense, but I think he can do all of that by the time the playoffs roll around. A motivated Shaq is as dangerous to opponents as an unmotivated Shaq is to his own team.

That's precisely my suggestion. I want the forcing of the issue to stop when it clearly isn't there. If you've taken 10 seconds off the clock and haven't net your open shot through the opportunistic offense yet, then stop, set up, run a play and see if that will yield the shot.

Hell, I'd bet if they did this several times a quarter, then their opportunistic offense would benefit as the defense might overplay.

I'm not a coach, but it's painfully obvious that constantly forcing the up tempo full-court/opportunistic half-court game isn't nearly as effective post-trade as it was pre-trade. At some point you need to play a little to Shaq's strengths and that's in a set half-court option. You don't have to do it all the time, but a minimum of a half-dozen times a quarter isn't that much to ask. Then Shaq has more of an effect on the offense, there's likely fewer turnovers, Nash doesn't have to carry the team when in all the time and you're better prepared for instances when you must run a play to be effective.

I'm just saying. I chalk this not happening yet in 10 games to D'Antoni's refusal to adjust.

[Louie Vega]

POPABITCH should shut the fuck up and go get plastic surgery. That is one UGLY son of a bitch!!!!!!!!! :lol


http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/popovich_gregg0428.jpg



This face is responsible for shutting down the Forum!

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah I agree with that. What happens currently is that they seem to pass up opportunities to run (primarily because of Shaq at this point) and then try to make an opportunity that is no longer there.

But a bigger killer of their offense lately IMO, and the reason I incorrectly disagreed with your original point, is that they pass up opportunities to run and then don't bother to try to run the PNR or get Nash to penetrate and dish or set up a secondary break, but instead just throw it into Shaq and wait for great things to happen. If you are going to force one or the other at this point it's preferable to force the run than to hang your hopes on the post game of a 36 year old Shaq for the whole of crunch time.

The problems that they currently have can be solved by better awareness of their situation and better decision making on top of it, while utilizing all their tools.

[JMarkJohns]

Some of it may actually be that they are still getting used to each other, feeling each other out and figuring each's tendencies. If such is the case, then things should improve with each game. I've seen many a turnover where a Sun (namely Barbosa or Bell) start a back cut, start hard, then stop, faking out both the defender and the offensive passer resulting in a deflected pass, a steal or a ball out of bounds. If these were actual plays where Shaq or Nash knew the intentions of the player before hand, then those would get cut in half or almost entirely eliminated. It would still keep the defenders guessing and there is a ton of motion offense you can incorporate with backdoor cuts and fakes.

I agree they should run when there, but with the quantity of such's opportunities dwindling since the acquisition of Shaq, it just seems to me their offense would be far more productive if they had actual set plays for their backup plan in stead of trying to fit a Shaq-sized peg into a Marion-sized hole.

[RonMexico]

This face is responsible for shutting down the Forum!

Louie, I'm just gonna go ahead and say that I've fallen in love with the person in your avatar.

I sincerely hope it's not your wife, sister, or girlfriend. If it is any of those three, and it doesn't offend you, then I hope you take the above as a compliment.

[Borosai]

:lol PRINGLES!!!

[bigfan]

I think this is CIA Pop again. Watching D'Antoni go into coniption fits on the sidelines is one of the Suns weakest links. If they had a less tempermental coach they might be better off.