Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Suns Mar. 9

[timvp]

This was an odd game for the San Antonio Spurs. This was unlike any game the Spurs played against the Phoenix Suns in recent history. For once, the Spurs were the smaller team. The Spurs also couldn’t grab as many rebounds as they felt like grabbing and they couldn’t humiliate the Suns in the paint repeatedly.

The man responsible for this change was none other than longtime Spurs nemesis Shaquille O’Neal. O’Neal was dominant for big portions of the game. He was motivated, seemingly in good shape and was crafty enough to defend against what the Spurs wanted to do on both ends of the court. When he wasn’t forcing Tim Duncan to shoot jumpers, he was clogging the paint and making it difficult for Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker to get to the rim. When he wasn’t pounding the boards, he was jumping into the stands trying to kill Suns fans.

Besides O’Neal, I have to give Mike D’Antoni a lot of credit. Since acquiring O’Neal, D’Antoni has implemented a new-look offense that is much more suited to playoff basketball. The run-and-gun Suns have been replaced by a team that uses pin downs, cross screens and point guard picks in the half court offense. I thought I was watching a Jerry Sloan coached team for a minute.

All that said, the Spurs had this game won late in the fourth quarter. Up by five points with just a little more than five minutes to go in the game, the Spurs suddenly went ice cold. They only made one more basket as the Suns ran away with a 94-87 victory. The 14-2 run to end the game was difficult to watch as a Spurs fan but it wasn’t shocking to see. The Spurs have been streaky offensively this season – and they hit a bad streak at the worst possible time.

Overall, I’m pretty disappointed by this turn of events. The Suns are no longer the soft, paper champions that they’ve been in the past. The Spurs aren’t playing championship basketball at all right now. I can’t remember the last time the Spurs came out and thoroughly played Spurs Basketball from tip to buzzer against a quality opponent.

-Tim Duncan was horrible, especially in the second half. He let O’Neal dominate him in the second half. Duncan either settled for a jumper or made a weak attempt to draw a foul when he had the ball in the second half. Defensively, his one-on-one defense was only average. His team defense was lacking and his overall energy just wasn’t there. For the game, Duncan finished with 17 points and 10 rebounds, while hitting 6-of-19 shots from the field. It was like he saw the Suns uniform and couldn’t figure out why he couldn’t easily dominate like he has since he’s been in the league. Note to Duncan: That big, sweaty guy who looked like Shaquille O’Neal was in fact Shaquille O’Neal. Remember, you actually have to try against him.

-Manu Ginobili wasn’t his regular superstar self against the Suns. In the first half, he played like a stubborn chucker. He wasn’t looking for the open man – he was just looking to score the ball. In the third quarter, he went the other extreme and wasn’t aggressive enough. In the fourth, he mixed a few poor shot attempts with a couple passive possessions. Coming off the bench again, Ginobili had 22 points, five rebounds, two assists and five turnovers, while shooting 7-for-19 from the floor. He was actually hitting shots from downtown, as he was 4-for-6. Although, that means he was just 3-for-13 on two-pointers. You can blame a lot of that on O'Neal clogging things in the middle.

-Tony Parker had a streaky game. In the first half, he looked like he was laboring yet again on his ankle. Luckily, he was hitting his outside shot in the first half and went a perfect 4-for-4 in the first two quarters. In the second half, Parker showed a burst of health in a few instances. Overall though, Parker just doesn’t look right – and that’s damn scary. His stats actually turned out decently as he scored 21 points, dished out five assists and hit 7-of-15 shot attempts. However, I’m not convinced that he’s 100% at the moment because Steve Nash was able to stay with him defensively. A healthy Parker would laugh at Nash while blowing by him to lay the ball up.

-Bruce Bowen played 38 minutes but I didn’t think he really did much of anything. Pop didn’t put him on Nash as much as he usually does. When Bowen was on Nash, Bowen didn’t do as good a job as he usually does. Offensively, Bowen went 1-for-5 from the field. It was a forgettable game for Bowen, to say the least.

-Kurt Thomas started yet again at center and played very well in the second half after struggling in the first half. He got abused by O’Neal in the first half but his defense, rebounding and shotmaking abilities were much better in the second half. He finished with 11 points, seven rebounds and went 4-for-9 from the field. All of his field goals were standstill jumpers from about 18-feet away. He even mixed in a stare down to the Suns bench after drilling back-to-back jumpers.

-Michael Finely started at shooting guard and sucked. He missed all six of his shots in his 23 minutes of action. His defense was bad on whoever he was defending. His only other contributions other than missing shots were his two rebounds. For Finley to keep starting, he’s going to have to snap out of this slump. If not, the Spurs have plenty of players who will be more than happy to take his minutes.

-Ime Udoka played 20 minutes off the bench and did reasonably well. He had eight points, six rebounds and two steals, while hitting 3-of-7 shots from the field. His defense was good for the most part and he was taking quality shots offensively. Udoka easily led the team in plus/minus with a +17. That said, I’m not convinced he has the mental aspect of Spurs Basketball down yet. He seems to get flustered too easily for my liking. Udoka needs to work on keeping his concentration throughout every minute he’s on the court.

-Fabricio Oberto played 10 minutes and did about as well as he’s going to do in limited time. He had four points and five rebounds and hit both of his shots from the field. However, I’m guessing when Oberto has nightmares, his nightmares feature Shaquille O’Neal. Literally every time Oberto goes against O’Neal, Oberto ends up bruised up, bloodied or injured. This time, it was Oberto’s lip that O’Neal busted open.

-Damon Stoudamire was on the court for ten minutes behind Parker at point guard. To put it bluntly, Stoudamire was putrid. Whatever Pop is telling him to do is not working. At. All. Pop wants Stoudamire to be a fearless gunner. The problem is that Stoudamire hasn’t been a fearless gunner since about 1996. Stoudamire these days is most valuable as a playmaker and a distributor. Hopefully he’s allowed to go back to that role. (I often wonder why Pop doesn’t find a point guard who is a fearless gunner instead of trying to force those characteristics into point guards. Like say, why not go after Earl Boykins? Boykins has never met a shot that he didn’t like and is a fearless gunner naturally. And Boykins was available when Stoudamire was signed. Just wondering …)

-Robert Horry played seven invisible minutes. The only reason why he was noticed was because Suns fans booed him whenever he got the ball. With the way Horry has shot this season, Suns fans should have actually been rooting for him to take more shots.

-Jacque Vaughn played a couple seconds. Vaughn better enjoy this vacation because with the way things are going, he’ll get his backup point guard job back pretty soon.

-Pop didn’t do anything too horrendous this game. I don’t think there was a magic button to push when the team couldn’t buy a bucket late in the game. The defense against the Suns was mostly solid – it was just a very poor offensive showing, even before the collapse.

With all the difficult games forthcoming on the schedule, the Spurs have to just be in survival mode at the moment. They need to put this loss behind them and move on. If they dwell on this two game losing streak, they could be looking at a five or six game losing streak before they know what hit ‘em.

The bottomline is the Spurs still have a ways to go before they can be considered playoff ready. Hopefully los killer instinct can be formed, los Duncan and Ginobili can stay healthy, los Parker can get 100% healthy, los defense can become more consistent and los offense can find the rhythm it had in los early season games. Until then, the Spurs need a win on Monday against the Denver Nuggets. The Nuggets beat the Spurs just a couple days ago. Revenge is a dish that is best served old.

Believe.

[Streakyshooter08]

I saw the game live and was really disappointed. My biggest concern is Tony right now. In the first half he was not really aggressive in the second half he was better but still far away from his normal form. Nash was able to guard him well and that is not good sign. Timmy also played really poor.

The only positive thing was the Spurs still had a chance to win this game:

- None of the big 3 had a good game
- they shoot only 35% from the field
- get outrebounded 52-44
- score one basket in the final minutes...

and still lose by only 7 points. This is the only bright spot I see. Kurt also played a good game.

One other thought: Maybe Pop should give Udoka the start if he wants to bring Gino off the bench. Finley seems to be much better if he is not starting...

[batboy]

I'd rather have a flustered Udoka than a comatose Finley

[whottt]

You left out that psychologically Shaq isn't intimidated by the Spurs at all...unlike all the other Spurs owned and operated Suns. That might be the biggest thing he gives them...that little change of chemistry.




It'll be good to have Brent Back when we play the Suns, because not only is he a Suns killer...he's also a Shaq killer.


IF you don't believe me go take a look at what he did against the Shaq Kobe Lakers...when his teams went 12-6 against them. You'll literally choke when you see some of the games he had against them.



Then take a look at what he's done against teams with Shaq on them in his Spurs career as well.


He'll play good against the Suns...so hopefully Pop will continue to give him minutes against them.

[whottt]

PS: I'd like to take this moment to drop a big FU on everyone who told me I was stupid for saying this was a good trade for the Suns, and they will match up better with us because of it...you know who you are.


Like I said...you go out there and take it into the paint on Shaq and then say he's a joke....it's not about his ability to come out on picnrolls and rotate on defense...it's about his ability to knock the living shit out of anyone coming into the paint, just by shrugging. Shawn Marion he aint...

[ShoogarBear]

Yep, the One-Game-I-Told-You-Sos are out in full force. :rolleyes

[whottt]

Yep, the One-Game-I-Told-You-Sos are out in full force. :rolleyes


Why not? The guys telling me I was wrong were doing it after one game..and it wasn't even against the Spurs.


This matchup went down exactly like I predicted...that's the thing...


Shaq is big and intimidating...the idea of getting hit by him is intimidating. Shawn Marion is not intimidating...the idea of taking it into the paint on him is inviting...like Salma Hayek lying naked in your bed.


It's a different game when we play the Suns now...if only because psycholgically, Shaq is used to beating the Spurs.

[J.T.]

I'm starting to get tired of the [x member of Big 3] had an off game excuse. It's stupid to assume Manu will score 40 a game. It's stupid to assume Tony will be able to drive the lane all game long. And it's stupid to assume that even though he's been so consistent for us over the years, that Duncan will dominate each and every game. Teams get in funks, players go on shooting streaks all the time. I'm sure it was a reasonable assumption to say [x member of Phoenix] wasn't on their game during their recent skids, but you wouldn't know it if you read SpursTalk, since a lot of you said Phoenix was fucked and done.

If you have to make excuses, why don't you use one that's actually true, like how the Spurs have sucked on ABC afternoon games for longer than I care to remember.

[WalterBenitez]

We lost almost everything in last two 4q (DEN/SUNS) the ability to close games, to defend, to score easy shots and so on.

I'd like to see stats of las 5 minutes in latest games, we simply collapsed, it is not about a single palyer (Mike FInley would be my favorite); besides we look mentality tired, phisically exhausted.

Probably we are gonna step up at the end of the season a be even better in playoffs but right now, we are playing bad; I don't what are we doing during halftime, but we must change it.

[polandprzem]

1. Spurs had no energy at all, and when they found some it was used in wrong direction.
2. No offense at all. We saw some shots on screens against Shaq but that's not enough. The startegy was bad as it could be. TD should force O'neal to defend him down low and get some fouls. Early in the game. Run some, jeez when I was watching that game I missed Brent, not only he can provide a fast break he also is good in motioning the ofense which was not fluid that for one and was slow, so slow that every Suns player could defend to well. Mike looked lost, Pop looked lost. Suns did not hit 3ptrs good enough the game was close till the end.
3. Defense - spurs let Nash go of with his middle pickrolls, and Shaq executed well. Eliminating this we eliminate 40-50% of Suns O. I wonder why Shaq get so close to the basket, jeez where is Rasho? He did a good job of not letting Shaq get to close to the basket area. (Shaq had some 3sec violations, hehe he is not slow yea)

[Blue-Lightning]

I thought Manu played pretty well... he did force some shots, but it looked like he was trying to get at least something going while the other players looked lethargic.

BL

[DarrinS]

As poorly as they played, it was still a very winable game for the Spurs -- the type of game we've seen them win countless times. What usually gives the Spurs the edge in these kinds of games is their discipline and focus -- something they didn't have in the last minutes of the 4th quarter.


With all these young, althletic, and hungry teams in the West, the Spurs will be fighting for their playoff lives.


Tonight's game will be telling.

[wildchild]

-Fabricio Oberto played 10 minutes and did about as well as he’s going to do in limited time. He had four points and five rebounds and hit both of his shots from the field. However, I’m guessing when Oberto has nightmares, his nightmares feature Shaquille O’Neal. Literally every time Oberto goes against O’Neal, Oberto ends up bruised up, bloodied or injured. This time, it was Oberto’s lip that O’Neal busted open.

Strongly disagree.
How many of you said Oberto sucks against Shaq?
He did a hard job in only 10 minutes against him. Shaq didn't score over him in those minutes.
Maybe it isn't the best matchup for Oberto but he was able to rise to the occasion.
Good to see Oberto with his usual effort, defense and rebounds.
Unfortunately for him, Pop doesn't think the same.
Why? I don't sure. Even I guess his rebounds (Oberto finished with 5 rebounds in 10' and Thomas with 7 in 27') and defense on Shaq/Amare was good and better than Thomas in the first half game. I don't mean to discredit Thomas. I really like him in the second half especially his open shot.
I only thought Oberto deserved more minutes at the beginning of 4th quarter.
I can't explain that. When he plays well but Pop doesn't let him play more, in addition to defeat, I get into being a real fan of Oberto.
I think if he play only 10' per game maybe we would be lost a good player in playoffs.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

I am a little worried about Tony. His jumpers looked really good but he seemed a step slower and was less explosive.

[wildchild]

If you have to make excuses, why don't you use one that's actually true, like how the Spurs have sucked on ABC afternoon games for longer than I care to remember.

Not kidding dude.

[remingtonbo2001]

I'm starting to get tired of the [x member of Big 3] had an off game excuse. It's stupid to assume Manu will score 40 a game. It's stupid to assume Tony will be able to drive the lane all game long. And it's stupid to assume that even though he's been so consistent for us over the years, that Duncan will dominate each and every game. Teams get in funks, players go on shooting streaks all the time. I'm sure it was a reasonable assumption to say [x member of Phoenix] wasn't on their game during their recent skids, but you wouldn't know it if you read SpursTalk, since a lot of you said Phoenix was fucked and done.

If you have to make excuses, why don't you use one that's actually true, like how the Spurs have sucked on ABC afternoon games for longer than I care to remember.

I'd agree that the Spurs may be going through some sort of pre-playoff slump. However, if the Big 3 put up their respective averages, or 2 of the 3 play extremely well, the Spurs are nearly incredibily difficult to beat.

Can anyone pull up our ABC record during the Regular Season, in the Tim Duncan era?

[ManuTastic]

The time when Tony was penetrating well was early in the 3rd when Shaq was not on the floor defending the rim. Soon as Shaq checked back in, Tony got into the paint, saw Shaq's shadow, and brought it back out. Simple as that.
Gotta give Shaq big ups for this game. I thought he was done, and that this was a bad trade for PHx, but that game was all about Shaq-fu. OTOH, I don't think he can bring that kind of game more than once a week. I still like our chances against them in a 7-game series.

[wildchild]

I am a little worried about Tony. His jumpers looked really good but he seemed a step slower and was less explosive.

FT% wasn't good. Maybe his ankle is bothering him.

[samikeyp]

I am a little worried about Tony. His jumpers looked really good but he seemed a step slower and was less explosive.


I agree and his teardrop has been way off of late.

[41times]

I was absolutely shocked at the finish of the game yesterday.
The Spurs did their usual deal and had the Suns right where they wanted them with 4 minutes to go. They had held them to about 80 points with 4 minutes to go and it was all but over.......

But then the Suns pulled a Spurs and locked down defensively, got every big rebond and made the big shots and finished the game with a 14 - 2 run! are you kidding me?

That is exactly what the Spurs used to do to people in the 4th quarter, especially the Suns.

So either Shaq made the difference or the Spurs just got tired? Regardless, I was very surprised.

I think the Division race has a new look to it today and by the end of the month it could be a toss up.

[LEONARD]

I can't believe the Spurs lost this game... :)

[polandprzem]

Well as I said in other thread.
Spurs needed that loss more than other loses. Phsychology

I don't know how the spurs are scheudled but they need a day offffffff.

[Russ]

When shots aren't falling all other aspects of the game look different. You notice the rebounding problems, the defensive lapses, etc. If the Spurs hit a couple shots, everyone forgets about those deficiencies and we all think the win was ordained from the beginning.

Phoenix hit jumpers and the Spurs didn't at the end. Just the way it was in their playoff series last year, close all the way with the winner hitting the big shots.

Stoudamire did look clueless, though (running around without any purpose).

[Solid D]

I didn't get to see the game, yet. Thanks for the synopsis, timvp.

I wasn't surprised the Suns won this home game. Grant Hill did an excellent job defending (both) his man & doubling on Tim in their previous games this year. The addition of Shaq only exposes the Spurs outside shooting weakness more. As I mentioned in another thread, the Spurs aren't as good as they were this time last year because they don't have Brent's scoring and their baseline/weakside help is slow and soft. Any team that can clog the lane and play Timmy physical will force the Spurs to hit their outside shots. The offense is necessary because the defense cannot be relied upon to consistently get stops down the stretch,

[cash459]

Tony IS playing scared or with a serious lack of confidence. Plus, he tweaked his ankle again in the 3rd (i think) so hopefully that doesnt screw with his confidence anymroe.

Tim didnt play w/ as much drive and enthusiasm/want as we need him to. TWO easy shots blown, that is just unacceptable. Hell, dunk it if you have to.

Also, how the hell do the Spurs allow BOTH amare & shaq to play almost 6 minutes each in a huge 4th quarter with 5 fouls and not get at least one of them fouled out!?!? Run a pick 'n roll involving one of them, take it to the basket more consistenly, if not every time....but allowing them each to have 5 fouls for that long and not getting either one of them fouled out is beyond me..... They have to recognize potential weaknesses and attack them to give us an advantage. You know that if it were Tim or any of the other big 3, other teams would run the offense with getting them out of the game being the main objective.

They need to make some changes or spend more time in the gym or something....i know that we are aging, but we cannot allow this to be something looming over our heads. And come playoff time, we are going to need to win some games on the road.

[samikeyp]

Tony IS playing scared or with a serious lack of confidence.

I think its the latter. I think because of that, he is tentative at times.

[Rick Von Braun]

I am very concerned about some Spurs' player, and in particular, Pop's stubbornness to continue giving them minutes:

Michael Finley: He has had some good stretches during the regular season, but he has been consistently bad this year. I mean really bad player. He is well below the replacement value of an average player in the league... in other words, he has been consistently worse than an average player in the league. While some defensive specialists (e.g. Bowen, Bell, etc.) also suffer in their value since many of their contributions are not registered in the boxscore and some other charts that most scouts use, I would not consider defense (neither one-on-one nor help) one of Finley's forte. Right now, he is hurting the starting lineup, but Pop is very stubborn about him.

Robert Horry: I've seen a couple of games where he looks fresh, in particular on the defensive end, but other than that, he looks very slow, out of place, with no rhythm, and with his shot not falling. In other words, he is looking very old.

The last two games have clearly shown us that against playoff quality opposition (Denver and Phoenix), Finley produces a negative impact on the team. He was definitely a significant contributor to the Spurs' debacle in the third quarter against Denver (mainly lack of D) and in both first and third quarter against Phoenix (mainly, lack of everything!).

I believe these players may contribute spot minutes here and there during the playoffs, but I don't want Pop giving them any consistent minutes. I don't think they will magically flip the switch and become consistent contributors. I would rather them playing when everything else has failed and/or when someone is in foul trouble. I want Pop to learn from his mistakes and prevent another NVE II episode... we all have seen this movie and we know how it ends.

[picnroll]

PS: I'd like to take this moment to drop a big FU on everyone who told me I was stupid for saying this was a good trade for the Suns, and they will match up better with us because of it...you know who you are.


Like I said...you go out there and take it into the paint on Shaq and then say he's a joke....it's not about his ability to come out on picnrolls and rotate on defense...it's about his ability to knock the living shit out of anyone coming into the paint, just by shrugging. Shawn Marion he aint...
Shaq had a good game against the Spurs. Duncan who for all his accomplishments has never developed a near reliable mid-range shot and is not as mobile as most offensive big men is a set-up for a slow, in the paint Shaq. That ain't going to work against most other teams that can put bigs on the floor willing to take and abloe to hit a 16 foot outsiede shot. So whottt pray the Suns matchup with the Spurs so they have any shot at all of getting out of round one and making you look like you know what you're talking about.

On another note I think Duncan as a player is sliding and I've been thinking that all season.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

I didn't get to see the game, yet. Thanks for the synopsis, timvp.

I wasn't surprised the Suns won this home game. Grant Hill did an excellent job defending (both) his man & doubling on Tim in their previous games this year. The addition of Shaq only exposes the Spurs outside shooting weakness more. As I mentioned in another thread, the Spurs aren't as good as they were this time last year because they don't have Brent's scoring and their baseline/weakside help is slow and soft. Any team that can clog the lane and play Timmy physical will force the Spurs to hit their outside shots. The offense is necessary because the defense cannot be relied upon to consistently get stops down the stretch,


I guess that is why the spurs were going after korver. Maybe POP felt the team needed more outside shooting.

[1Parker1]

Korver would have been a great addition to the Spurs :depressed

[Bruno]

Pop is a fucking genius when he let Vaughn and Bonner on the bench to play Horry and Stoudamire. :rolleyes

[ManuTastic]

Stoudamire did look clueless, though (running around without any purpose).

Very true. Whatever Pop told him lately, he should go back and erase it from his mind.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Our big 3 has to be hitting on all cylinders for this team to win. I don't think Tony is quite there yet. The last two games he hasn't appeared to be moving as quickly as he normally does.

[1Parker1]

Spurs have become over-reliant on the Big 3 to carry the load on offense. It used to be that the Spurs could hurt you with the Big 3 penetrating and kicking out to the open shooter or playing pick and roll basketball. But with Finley, Horry, Oberto, Vaughn/Stoudamire all pretty much useless on offense, it's getting hard. And Bowen hasn't been as consistent with his corner 3 point shot as he's been in the past either.

[peacemaker885]

Props to Kurt Thomas. I think he showed a fairly solid game against his former team..something that I couldn't remember any player traded to the Spurs did (except maybe Michael Finley during the playoffs of 2006)

[thebigchill]

They look TIRED! Physically and even more so, mentally. And it ain't gettin any easier any time soon. I still think they're leaving quite a bit in the tank for when it REALLY counts. They're just not pulling out all the stops right now. i.e. Shaq crowd surfing. Suns wanted and NEEDED this one more. It just worries me how close the west is and how tough our upcoming schedule is. I just hope they do have something left in the tank when the 2nd season begins. That's assuming we have a second season. I'm still very confident and have no doubt that we're the team to beat. But right now we look more beat up than anything.

[SenorSpur]

Spurs have become over-reliant on the Big 3 to carry the load on offense. It used to be that the Spurs could hurt you with the Big 3 penetrating and kicking out to the open shooter or playing pick and roll basketball. But with Finley, Horry, Oberto, Vaughn/Stoudamire all pretty much useless on offense, it's getting hard. And Bowen hasn't been as consistent with his corner 3 point shot as he's been in the past either.

Well said. And that over-reliance manifest itself by way of the Big Three looking only for each other when they are on the court together. At times when the Spurs are in trouble and trying to overcome a deficit, the big 3 often seem to play amongst themselves, no matter who else is on the court.

It doesn't appear to be anything deliberate, in fact I'm not even sure they ae conscious of it. During these moments, the passing isn't crisp, the cuts and movements aren't there and the overall teamwork and cohesion tends to suffer. That's not Spurs basketball.

[loveforthegame]

Spurs have become over-reliant on the Big 3 to carry the load on offense. It used to be that the Spurs could hurt you with the Big 3 penetrating and kicking out to the open shooter or playing pick and roll basketball. But with Finley, Horry, Oberto, Vaughn/Stoudamire all pretty much useless on offense, it's getting hard. And Bowen hasn't been as consistent with his corner 3 point shot as he's been in the past either.

I mentioned this in another thread. When Parker and Ginobli are attacking the rim they're either scoring, getting to the ft line, or missing some gimmies. They're not kicking out to the open man be it Finley, Bowen, Horry, Stoudamire. I'm not blaming them as they make a lot of things happen for this team obviously but those guys normally taking the open shots are being forced to dribble and make something happen instead. It's ugly and guys are struggling. The only player I've seen get open looks is Udoka but even he is faking the shot and taking a step inside and shooting or passing out.

I wish I was as confident as everyone else that Barry will come back and be healthy. I wish we had an update on his possible return because he's going to need time to get back into game shape as well.

[SenorSpur]

I mentioned this in another thread. When Parker and Ginobli are attacking the rim they're either scoring, getting to the ft line, or missing some gimmies. They're not kicking out to the open man be it Finley, Bowen, Horry, Stoudamire. I'm not blaming them as they make a lot of things happen for this team obviously but those guys normally taking the open shots are being forced to dribble and make something happen instead. It's ugly and guys are struggling. The only player I've seen get open looks is Udoka but even he is faking the shot and taking a step inside and shooting or passing out.

I wish I was as confident as everyone else that Barry will come back and be healthy. I wish we had an update on his possible return because he's going to need time to get back into game shape as well.

When a team is struggling, it's quite common for great players to "take it upon themselves" to will their teams back into contention. That's a quality that makes great players great. It can be a blessing and a curse. True superstars can recognize how to affect the game and beat the opposition in other ways, when the opposition focuses on taking away their strengths.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Props to Kurt Thomas. I think he showed a fairly solid game against his former team..something that I couldn't remember any player traded to the Spurs did (except maybe Michael Finley during the playoffs of 2006)
:tu I think Kurt Thomas had the exact sort of game the Spurs are going to need from him if they want to win a playoff series against the Suns, particularly in the second half. He was knocking down those midrange jumpers that Shaq can never be bothered to rotate over for. What really surprised me were the drives that he took straight into Amare's chest in the second to send STAT to the bench with foul trouble.

And I echo the sentiments of those puzzled/concerned by Parker's play. It was no accident that during the stretch where he was able to attack the rim and make some things happen that things started looking up for the Spurs in the third.

All things considered this was a game I think the Spurs probably should have lost a lot worse than they did. Aside from not being able to buy a bucket down the stretch, their interior D looked suspect at times and I don't expect to see the Suns miss that many open threes again. I still believe we're headed for a repeat, but damn this was not fun to watch.

[SenorSpur]

I certainly agree with the Stoudamire assessment. He seemed to thrive must more when he was playing the role of playmaker, facilitator, setup man and shooter. Once Pop gave him the instructions to be gunner, he's not been the same player.

[peacemaker885]

Playmaker + Gunner => Brent Barry :-)

[Blue-Lightning]

^ Manu and Thomas did their best to get the two to foul out...

[dbreiden83080]

PS: I'd like to take this moment to drop a big FU on everyone who told me I was stupid for saying this was a good trade for the Suns, and they will match up better with us because of it...you know who you are.


Like I said...you go out there and take it into the paint on Shaq and then say he's a joke....it's not about his ability to come out on picnrolls and rotate on defense...it's about his ability to knock the living shit out of anyone coming into the paint, just by shrugging. Shawn Marion he aint...

Suns were playing like dogshit heading into this game and there is no indication they won't go right back to playing BAD now that it is over. Spurs did not play well at all and were up in this game with 5 min to play. If the big 3 stepped it up down the stretch, Suns fans would still be crying that Kerr ruined their team.

[roycrikside]

PS: I'd like to take this moment to drop a big FU on everyone who told me I was stupid for saying this was a good trade for the Suns, and they will match up better with us because of it...you know who you are.


Like I said...you go out there and take it into the paint on Shaq and then say he's a joke....it's not about his ability to come out on picnrolls and rotate on defense...it's about his ability to knock the living shit out of anyone coming into the paint, just by shrugging. Shawn Marion he aint...

You miss the point, Whott. It makes them match-up a little better against us, but a lot worse against everyone else. They won't have a chance to beat us in the playoffs unless they see us in the 1st round because whoever they play will knock them out. They're cutting their nose to spite their face. Most other teams have a good tall small forward (Odom, McGrady, Kirilenko, Jackson, Peja) who will take advantage of Marion's absence. We don't have that guy. The Suns defense had been giving up 113 with Shaq before this game.

[SouthernFried]

This game was a HUGE learning experience. Things we learned?

- Kurt Thomas is gonna be WIDE open every time on those pick and rolls. As close to money in the bank as you gonna get.

- Manu stated at halfime "When I drive, I need to kick it out more." Well...?? Do it. TP too. They were exhausted trying to bust into the middle so much and getting beat around. Kick the damn thing out and quit trying to force it. That means you need shooters on the perimeter to take advantage. Bowen, Finley, Barry, Manu, Kurt, mebbe even Ime, can all have field days. It's what's there...take what's there.

- PHX interior defense is now much, much better...their perimeter defense is now much, much worse. Uh....

- Dunno why Parker was trying to do the Manu thing so much in the 4th quarter...when you actually have Manu right there on your team. Mebbe Manu got worn out trying to take it inside. Kinda laughed when Tony was almost begging Manu to come get the ball from him...ended up running over to Manu and just handing the ball off to him. :D

PHX is now an easier team to beat, imho. But not the way the Spurs tried to beat 'em. Pops a pretty smart guy, methinks he's looking at some tape (do they even use tape anymore?)...and salivating. I would be.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Just a point on Manu - I think the rest of the team is expecting him to do whatever is necessary to get a bucket and that isn't really spurs basketball. It has never been since 2003. People should only shoot what they are supposed to shoot and that's how the spurs dominate teams but without ball movement that's very difficult to do. I saw in the last play of the 2nd quarter I believe when vaughn had the ball with 20 secs or so, waited for about 10 or 12 to give it to Manu and then expected manu to create something with 6 secs left. If you are going to do that, you need to give it to manu earlier and let him create something with enough time - the suns D was already set and it was a dead play. That's some stupid shit that needs to be looked at.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

This game was a HUGE learning experience. Things we learned?

- Kurt Thomas is gonna be WIDE open every time on those pick and rolls. As close to money in the bank as you gonna get.

- Manu stated at halfime "When I drive, I need to kick it out more." Well...?? Do it. TP too. They were exhausted trying to bust into the middle so much and getting beat around. Kick the damn thing out and quit trying to force it. That means you need shooters on the perimeter to take advantage. Bowen, Finley, Barry, Manu, Kurt, mebbe even Ime, can all have field days. It's what's there...take what's there.

- PHX interior defense is now much, much better...their perimeter defense is now much, much worse. Uh....

- Dunno why Parker was trying to do the Manu thing so much in the 4th quarter...when you actually have Manu right there on your team. Mebbe Manu got worn out trying to take it inside. Kinda laughed when Tony was almost begging Manu to come get the ball from him...ended up running over to Manu and just handing the ball off to him. :D

PHX is now an easier team to beat, imho. But not the way the Spurs tried to beat 'em. Pops a pretty smart guy, methinks he's looking at some tape (do they even use tape anymore?)...and salivating. I would be.

Agree with this. The 3pt advantage the Suns had over every other team in the league for the past 4 years is gone completely - now they are a totally diferent team and the old recipes won't work anymore. Pop will have to come up with a different game plan to beat these guys.

[Gino]

Korver would have been a great addition to the Spurs :depressed

Korver would have been a great addition for everyone.

[wildbill2u]

Spurs played stupid. They had both Shaq and Amare with five fouls with lots of time left in the game. Did they try to take advantage and get them fouled out? NO! They played perimeter basketball and didn't challenge them hardly at all.

Shaq got away with a lot. Remember that time that Ginobilli was called for a foul when he was down on the ground and Shaq fell over him?

The reason Manu was on the ground was that Shaq cuffed him with that big hand and arm over the neck and shoulders and literally bashed him to the ground. Refs should have seen it.

[Xylus]

Spurs played stupid. They had both Shaq and Amare with five fouls with lots of time left in the game. Did they try to take advantage and get them fouled out? NO! They played perimeter basketball and didn't challenge them hardly at all.

Shaq got away with a lot. Remember that time that Ginobilli was called for a foul when he was down on the ground and Shaq fell over him?

The reason Manu was on the ground was that Shaq cuffed him with that big hand and arm over the neck and shoulders and literally bashed him to the ground. Refs should have seen it.
Blaming the refs? That's fucking lame.

[41times]

I am very concerned about some Spurs' player, and in particular, Pop's stubbornness to continue giving them minutes:

Michael Finley: He has had some good stretches during the regular season, but he has been consistently bad this year. I mean really bad player. He is well below the replacement value of an average player in the league... in other words, he has been consistently worse than an average player in the league. While some defensive specialists (e.g. Bowen, Bell, etc.) also suffer in their value since many of their contributions are not registered in the boxscore and some other charts that most scouts use, I would not consider defense (neither one-on-one nor help) one of Finley's forte. Right now, he is hurting the starting lineup, but Pop is very stubborn about him.

Robert Horry: I've seen a couple of games where he looks fresh, in particular on the defensive end, but other than that, he looks very slow, out of place, with no rhythm, and with his shot not falling. In other words, he is looking very old.

.

Old and Older. you decide which one is first.

Both guys can stand out there and hit an open 15-20 footer. But if you ask them to do much else, you might be asking too much.

[T Park]

Sounds like Jason Kidd.

[timmy21_4rings]

Spurs made Suns to smell the playoffs and a possible defeat by Suns in playoffs. Last time similar thing happened to Mavs when Mavs had a chance to eliminate Golden State in the final weeks.

[timvp]

Shaq had a good game against the Spurs. Duncan who for all his accomplishments has never developed a near reliable mid-range shot and is not as mobile as most offensive big men is a set-up for a slow, in the paint Shaq. That ain't going to work against most other teams that can put bigs on the floor willing to take and abloe to hit a 16 foot outsiede shot. So whottt pray the Suns matchup with the Spurs so they have any shot at all of getting out of round one and making you look like you know what you're talking about.

On another note I think Duncan as a player is sliding and I've been thinking that all season.LMAOFLOL. All your Shaq bashing backfires on you so you throw Duncan under the bus?

Classic.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I unfortunately missed the first half of the game, so take this for what its worth..

I am damn proud of Duncan taking it straight to Shaq in the possessions I watched. Yes, he missed every single layup attempt, but you guys make it sound like he shot nothing but jumpers. I saw him take it straight to Shaq at least 3 times out of 5 touches in the 2nd half. That is not an old strategy. Duncan normally always takes the off balance fadeaway, or passes when guarded by Shaq. I like the aggressiveness Duncan showed, seriously doubt he'll miss point blank layups every game, and want to see him keep up that aggressiveness next time we play the Suns.

[RonMexico]

LMAOFLOL. All your Shaq bashing backfires on you so you throw Duncan under the bus?

Classic.

Yeah, picnroll appears to flip-flop just as much on his Spurs' takes as he does on those for other teams.