Difference between the rockets defense and the spurs defense.

[spurms]

Shane battier could shut down peja, all bowen does is whine, houston collectively outrebounds opponents by 4.5, spurs done a lakers and allowed the hornets to manhandle them.

[Roxsfan]

The hornets suck.

[The Franchise]

About 10 years. :p:

[Indazone]

The NBA Power Differential Stat is the biggest difference. The Rockets keep beating down opponents but the Spurs barely win over the same ones or lose to contenders like the Hornets.

[Obstructed_View]

The Rockets are certainly playing better ball right now.

[Findog]

I don't think Houston can sustain this for the next three months. There's a danger that they could be peaking right now.

[Roxsfan]

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/3526/espnroxns2.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/5975/cnnsiroxah5.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9919/nbaroxuo5.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8797/sportingnewsroxlm7.jpg

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1373/msnbcroxwr6.jpg

[arcticjoe]

the rockets winning 20 is pretty incredible but there could be some negatives to this by putting unwanted pressure on the team in the future.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't think Houston can sustain this for the next three months. There's a danger that they could be peaking right now.
This is all really good for the Rockets, but it's window dressing until the playoffs. They've got a history of one and done, and a higher seed just elevates the pressure on a guy who doesn't have a track record of responding well to pressure.

[Findog]

This is all really good for the Rockets, but it's window dressing until the playoffs. They've got a history of one and done, and a higher seed just elevates the pressure on a guy who doesn't have a track record of responding well to pressure.

I'm trying to think of what would be their most favorable matchup. Golden State? Denver if they can get in? Maaayybe Dallas.

[Roxsfan]

This is all really good for the Rockets, but it's window dressing until the playoffs. They've got a history of one and done, and a higher seed just elevates the pressure on a guy who doesn't have a track record of responding well to pressure.


The streak is great, but all that matters is the postseason matchups. If you can get a favorable matchup in the first round and win, anything is possible after that.

But honestly, I think next year is the rox's year IF tmac, yao and company can stay healthy.

[Findog]

The streak is great, but all that matters is the postseason matchups. If you can get a favorable matchup in the first round and win, anything is possible after that.

But honestly, I think next year is the rox's year IF tmac, yao and company can stay healthy.

Yao is awesome, but his foot troubles are starting to remind me of Bill Walton. I wonder what the Rockets training staff can do to put him less at risk for reinjuring it.

[Indazone]

We will get a healthy Stevie Franchise back next year too :D

[wireonfire]

Yao is awesome, but his foot troubles are starting to remind me of Bill Walton. I wonder what the Rockets training staff can do to put him less at risk for reinjuring it.

Before this injury (stress fracture), all his foot/leg injuries were accidents, kicked by Okur or rammed into by two big bodies (Tim Thomas and Chucky Hayes) together.

[bobbyjoe]

This is all really good for the Rockets, but it's window dressing until the playoffs. They've got a history of one and done, and a higher seed just elevates the pressure on a guy who doesn't have a track record of responding well to pressure.

So losing Yao Ming in the midst of the most tightly bunched and contested Western Conference in recent memory with Houston on the borderline of the playoff picture (at the time 10 times ago) doesnt put a lot of pressure of Tracy McGrady?

Then, what does? If the guy reponds so poorly to pressure, why have they gone 9-0 without Yao Ming in playoff-jockeying time given the modest roster Houston has around their 2 stars?

Expecting Houston to have a deep playoff run in a loaded West without their best or 2nd best player is a ridiculously high bar. 20 straight is great, but in the playoffs perimter oriented teams (which is what Houston is without Yao) just typically dont win it all.

Even if Houston wins 40 straight, they still have matchup problems in the playoffs without a big man if they have to face a Duncan, Amare, Pau Gasol, or dare I say a Shaq?

[Obstructed_View]

So losing Yao Ming in the midst of the most tightly bunched and contested Western Conference in recent memory with Houston on the borderline of the playoff picture (at the time 10 times ago) doesnt put a lot of pressure of Tracy McGrady?

Then, what does? If the guy reponds so poorly to pressure, why have they gone 9-0 without Yao Ming in playoff-jockeying time given the modest roster Houston has around their 2 stars?

Expecting Houston to have a deep playoff run in a loaded West without their best or 2nd best player is a ridiculously high bar. 20 straight is great, but in the playoffs perimter oriented teams (which is what Houston is without Yao) just typically dont win it all.

Even if Houston wins 40 straight, they still have matchup problems in the playoffs without a big man if they have to face a Duncan, Amare, Pau Gasol, or dare I say a Shaq?

I'm sorry, I thought the goal was a championship, not a regular season winning streak. Tracy McGrady's had some heroic performances in the regular season, even a couple in the playoffs, but the fact remains that he's never been to the second round. The nice thing for him is that he's got a built in excuse for losing this year, and plenty of folks only too happy to offer them up for him. It's a great streak, but it doesn't mean shit if they can't make noise in the playoffs, and McGrady would be the first one to tell you that.

[bobbyjoe]

So if Duncan gets hurt tomorrow and misses the playoffs, is that a "built-in excuse" for not repeating or basically something that's pretty damn self-evident?

Can you name me one team in NBA History which has won a title after their best player got hurt and missed the playoffs entirely? Better yet, name one that made the Finals.

Some of this Tmac Hate is laughable. His team loses it's best player in a yr in which 50 wins may not make the playoffs in the West and the bar is still winning an NBA Championship?

Define "making noise". You cant seriously expect Houston to win a championship without Yao over teams like SA, LAL, DET, BOS. Is Noise getting to the WCF? Or merely just "getting out of the first round"?

[bobbyjoe]

We will get a healthy Stevie Franchise back next year too :D

Stevie "Franchise" is a scrub.

[Findog]

So if Duncan gets hurt tomorrow and misses the playoffs, is that a "built-in excuse" for not repeating or basically something that's pretty damn self-evident?

Can you name me one team in NBA History which has won a title after their best player got hurt and missed the playoffs entirely? Better yet, name one that made the Finals.

Some of this Tmac Hate is laughable. His team loses it's best player in a yr in which 50 wins may not make the playoffs in the West and the bar is still winning an NBA Championship?

Define "making noise". You cant seriously expect Houston to win a championship without Yao over teams like SA, LAL, DET, BOS. Is Noise getting to the WCF? Or merely just "getting out of the first round"?

Winning a title is unrealistic for the Rockets at this point, unless they show they can beat the Spurs, Lakers, Pistons and Celtics. I know they host the Lakers on Sunday, but I haven't looked at their remaining sched to see if those other teams are still on it.

I think McGrady has to win a playoff series to shut his critics up. It's not unreasonable for the Rockets to have HCA and end up playing the Suns, Warriors or Nuggets in the first round. Those are advantageous matchups.

TMac gets criticized because he's been up 2-0 twice and 3-1 and failed to advance. And you can't put him in the same category as LeBron and Kobe because he hasn't been able to stay healthy. When he's on, he is close to them, but he hasn't been able to demonstrate consistency.

[Indazone]

So losing Yao Ming in the midst of the most tightly bunched and contested Western Conference in recent memory with Houston on the borderline of the playoff picture (at the time 10 times ago) doesnt put a lot of pressure of Tracy McGrady?

Then, what does? If the guy reponds so poorly to pressure, why have they gone 9-0 without Yao Ming in playoff-jockeying time given the modest roster Houston has around their 2 stars?

Expecting Houston to have a deep playoff run in a loaded West without their best or 2nd best player is a ridiculously high bar. 20 straight is great, but in the playoffs perimter oriented teams (which is what Houston is without Yao) just typically dont win it all.

Even if Houston wins 40 straight, they still have matchup problems in the playoffs without a big man if they have to face a Duncan, Amare, Pau Gasol, or dare I say a Shaq?

Yeah? So what would you call the Detroit Pistons? Pussy Pushovers?

[bobbyjoe]

the rockets winning 20 is pretty incredible but there could be some negatives to this by putting unwanted pressure on the team in the future.

Houston is basically just building a foundation for next year.

Winning 20 is awesome but man, anyone who thinks they have enough to win the West is just crazy.

They cant matchup with SA or LA without Yao. Too much of a misatch in the frontcourt.

It all comes down to matchups in the playoffs, period.

[DazedAndConfused]

If I were a Rox fan I would be cautiously optimistic. Sit back and enjoy the ride and try not to get too caught up in the hype.

[bobbyjoe]

Winning a title is unrealistic for the Rockets at this point, unless they show they can beat the Spurs, Lakers, Pistons and Celtics. I know they host the Lakers on Sunday, but I haven't looked at their remaining sched to see if those other teams are still on it.

I think McGrady has to win a playoff series to shut his critics up. It's not unreasonable for the Rockets to have HCA and end up playing the Suns, Warriors or Nuggets in the first round. Those are advantageous matchups.

TMac gets criticized because he's been up 2-0 twice and 3-1 and failed to advance. And you can't put him in the same category as LeBron and Kobe because he hasn't been able to stay healthy. When he's on, he is close to them, but he hasn't been able to demonstrate consistency.

Nuggets, yes. If Houston gets matched up with Nuggets and lose, TMac deserves to be ripped.

Suns, I completely disagree. Houston has SERIOUS matchup issues with Phoenix. Without Yao, who in the hec will guard Shaq for Houston? They have Dikembe who can give you 15-20 mins a game if you are lucky. The rest of their front court is so undersized. Scola on Shaq? Lol.

Then you have Amare Stoudemire who is not a good matchup for Scola who lakcs the lateral quickness to stay with him.

Warriors? This is a tough one. Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson are terrific clutch playoff tested guards. I would favor Houston in that series, but it hardly would seem like an epic upset if they lost.

The thing that always baffles me about the "Tmac cant get out of the first round" argument is that it's as if the caliber of his play in those series doesnt even matter.

Your avatar says you are a Mavs fan. Can you seriously deny that Tracy McGrady was clearly the best player on the court in that series 2 yrs ago, even though the Mavs won the series? What did he average: 31, 8, and 8?
And then he completely shut down Dirk at the other end.

There needs to be a clear distinction made between star players who's teams don't advance despite their playing very well individually in the playoffs (Dan Marino, Charles Barkley, Tracy McGrady) and guys who dont bring their A games in the playoffs which contributes much moreso than the previous group to the inability of their teams to win the big prize (Barry Bonds, the Killer B's of the Houston Astros, Karl Malone, Peyton Manning is arguably in this group even with 1 ring given how much talent his teams have had).

What playoff series did you think TMac didnt play well enough for his team to advance in?

Is KG also a choker because his light loaded teams couldnt beat clearly superior teams in the playoffs? TMac's and KG's career are essentially mirror images of each other.

You can bring your A game in the playoffs and have it still not be enough for your team to win. See Tim Duncan in the 2006 series against the Mavs. Clearly the best player on the court in that great series but his team did not advance.

[Indazone]

Houston is good enough this year to win it all. We get Yao and Francis back next year, we'll be just that more dominant.

[Matchman]

Nuggets, yes. If Houston gets matched up with Nuggets and lose, TMac deserves to be ripped.

Suns, I completely disagree. Houston has SERIOUS matchup issues with Phoenix. Without Yao, who in the hec will guard Shaq for Houston? They have Dikembe who can give you 15-20 mins a game if you are lucky. The rest of their front court is so undersized. Scola on Shaq? Lol.

Then you have Amare Stoudemire who is not a good matchup for Scola who lakcs the lateral quickness to stay with him.

Warriors? This is a tough one. Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson are terrific clutch playoff tested guards. I would favor Houston in that series, but it hardly would seem like an epic upset if they lost.

The thing that always baffles me about the "Tmac cant get out of the first round" argument is that it's as if the caliber of his play in those series doesnt even matter.

Your avatar says you are a Mavs fan. Can you seriously deny that Tracy McGrady was clearly the best player on the court in that series 2 yrs ago, even though the Mavs won the series? What did he average: 31, 8, and 8?
And then he completely shut down Dirk at the other end.

There needs to be a clear distinction made between star players who's teams don't advance despite their playing very well individually in the playoffs (Dan Marino, Charles Barkley, Tracy McGrady) and guys who dont bring their A games in the playoffs which contributes much moreso than the previous group to the inability of their teams to win the big prize (Barry Bonds, the Killer B's of the Houston Astros, Karl Malone, Peyton Manning is arguably in this group even with 1 ring given how much talent his teams have had).

What playoff series did you think TMac didnt play well enough for his team to advance in?

Is KG also a choker because his light loaded teams couldnt beat clearly superior teams in the playoffs? TMac's and KG's career are essentially mirror images of each other.

You can bring your A game in the playoffs and have it still not be enough for your team to win. See Tim Duncan in the 2006 series against the Mavs. Clearly the best player on the court in that great series but his team did not advance.

the most knowledgable Lakers Fan of SpursTalk :king

[DazedAndConfused]

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m233/lakerfan01/tmacvirgin.jpg

[Matchman]

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m233/lakerfan01/tmacvirgin.jpg

I guess the phrase is right...
"Better Late than Never"
GO ROCKETS~!

[Obstructed_View]

So if Duncan gets hurt tomorrow and misses the playoffs, is that a "built-in excuse" for not repeating or basically something that's pretty damn self-evident?

Can you name me one team in NBA History which has won a title after their best player got hurt and missed the playoffs entirely? Better yet, name one that made the Finals.

Some of this Tmac Hate is laughable. His team loses it's best player in a yr in which 50 wins may not make the playoffs in the West and the bar is still winning an NBA Championship?

Define "making noise". You cant seriously expect Houston to win a championship without Yao over teams like SA, LAL, DET, BOS. Is Noise getting to the WCF? Or merely just "getting out of the first round"?

Okay, so you're saying that the win streak, even the games they've won without Yao, are just a fluke. I've seen a team that's playing great basketball on both ends of the floor with contributions from everyone, which is why they didn't miss a beat without Yao. Are they at a disadvantage? Yes. But if they end up with home court in the first round in the western conference based on their play AFTER Yao was out then there's really not any excuse for failing to get to the second round.

[Indazone]

I"d like to see the Spurs lose Duncan and keep winning.

[Obstructed_View]

I"d like to see the Spurs lose Duncan and keep winning.
Only if they had Scola.

[rAm]

I"d like to see the Spurs lose Duncan and keep winning.

I don't think Yao is to the Rockets what Duncan is to the Spurs. That and maybe not having Yao in there is actually a good thing for the Rockets?

[spurms]

I don't think Yao is to the Rockets what Duncan is to the Spurs. That and maybe not having Yao in there is actually a good thing for the Rockets?

lets see rockets with yao blew out the hornets by 20 points, sans yao by 10, hornets blew out the spurs with their big 3 by 25, lets face it, rockets are the main threat in the west, i did rather the spurs face any other teams then the rockets in the playoffs.

[hater]

LMAO at the Rockets hype. it reminds me of last years mavs hype and 2 years ago Detroit hype.

I will bet anything to any Houston fan that Houston will NOT get past the 2nd round of the playoffs.

[Obstructed_View]

Rockets win a bajillion games in a row without Yao.

Rockets fan: We're the best team in the league!

Someone points out that they need to get to the second round of the playoffs.

Rockets fan: But Yao is hurt!

[robbie380]

Rockets win a bajillion games in a row without Yao.

Rockets fan: We're the best team in the league!

Someone points out that they need to get to the second round of the playoffs.

Rockets fan: But Yao is hurt!


maybe i am blind but.....show me a rockets fan that believes this team won't make it out of the first round. i know it's fun to make stuff up in your head but no fan who actually thinks this team is good (like me) believes we will get knocked out in the first round.

[Obstructed_View]

maybe i am blind but.....show me a rockets fan that believes this team won't make it out of the first round. i know it's fun to make stuff up in your head but no fan who actually thinks this team is good (like me) believes we will get knocked out in the first round.
Good. Then there won't be any excuses if they do get knocked out in the first round.

[Indazone]

Well..the original thread about the difference between the Spurs defense and the Rockets defense? Rockets actually play some lol.

[bobbyjoe]

Okay, so you're saying that the win streak, even the games they've won without Yao, are just a fluke. I've seen a team that's playing great basketball on both ends of the floor with contributions from everyone, which is why they didn't miss a beat without Yao. Are they at a disadvantage? Yes. But if they end up with home court in the first round in the western conference based on their play AFTER Yao was out then there's really not any excuse for failing to get to the second round.

The HCA is overstated in a 7 game series. It really only comes into play if there's a Game 7.

While not a fluke, the Houston win streak has really been a result if you watch them of outworking and hustling opponents.

The problem is in the playoffs everyone plays balls out, you cant just win by outhustling and outworking opponents.

Like I said, if they lose to the Nuggets and maybe throw the Warriors in there, it's just a choke. But a loss to the Suns, Mavs, Hornets, or Jazz shouldnt surprise anyone.

Winning streaks are great, but they just dont help you in the playoffs when it starts at 0-0. Matchups come into play and I'm sorry but a Dikembe Mutombo, Luis Scola frontcourt against Duncan, Stoudemire/Shaq, Boozer/Okur, D. West, etc is just not going to cut it.

[bobbyjoe]

I don't think Yao is to the Rockets what Duncan is to the Spurs. That and maybe not having Yao in there is actually a good thing for the Rockets?

He's not that far off. He's a 22/10 guy who's a big changer defensively due to length.

If the Spurs lost Duncan for the yr, they could probably suck it up for a short stretch and manage, but long term they'd be screwed.

Like I said, name me one team in NBA history which has lost it's best or 2nd best player and still won a title or advanced to the NBA Finals. It just doesnt happen. And of all years, this is the wrong one to try that in a loaded WC.

Gotta have an inside presence to win in the postseason. Perimeter teams dont make it unless led by MJ.

[FromWayDowntown]

I don't know that it has particular application to this thread, but there's an observation that has bugged me of late, so I'll add it here:

Spurs fans have become way too obsessed with definining individual greatness by team accomplishments. There was a time when Spurs fans argued vociferously that David Robinson was a great, great player despite the fact that his teams were generally playoff failures. Now, those same sorts of arguments about similar players get shouted down around here by a fanbase that has only recently come to understand the accomplishment that a title represents. I'm not saying that McGrady's career record doesn't deserve some skepticism, but defining whether he's a quality player or not by how his teams have performed at playoff time seems a bit absurd. Does McGrady's historical luster suffer in comparison to guys whose teams have won titles or been deep in the playoffs routinely? Sure. But does defining McGrady as a player depend entirely on what his teams do in the playoffs? I don't think it should -- after all, Spurs fans made those same arguments about David.

[Flopper]

I don't know that it has particular application to this thread, but there's an observation that has bugged me of late, so I'll add it here:

Spurs fans have become way too obsessed with definining individual greatness by team accomplishments. There was a time when Spurs fans argued vociferously that David Robinson was a great, great player despite the fact that his teams were generally playoff failures. Now, those same sorts of arguments about similar players get shouted down around here by a fanbase that has only recently come to understand the accomplishment that a title represents. I'm not saying that McGrady's career record doesn't deserve some skepticism, but defining whether he's a quality player or not by how his teams have performed at playoff time seems a bit absurd. Does McGrady's historical luster suffer in comparison to guys whose teams have won titles or been deep in the playoffs routinely? Sure. But does defining McGrady as a player depend entirely on what his teams do in the playoffs? I don't think it should -- after all, Spurs fans made those same arguments about David.


some of the fans probably became fans after duncan join.

[bobbyjoe]

I don't know that it has particular application to this thread, but there's an observation that has bugged me of late, so I'll add it here:

Spurs fans have become way too obsessed with definining individual greatness by team accomplishments. There was a time when Spurs fans argued vociferously that David Robinson was a great, great player despite the fact that his teams were generally playoff failures. Now, those same sorts of arguments about similar players get shouted down around here by a fanbase that has only recently come to understand the accomplishment that a title represents. I'm not saying that McGrady's career record doesn't deserve some skepticism, but defining whether he's a quality player or not by how his teams have performed at playoff time seems a bit absurd. Does McGrady's historical luster suffer in comparison to guys whose teams have won titles or been deep in the playoffs routinely? Sure. But does defining McGrady as a player depend entirely on what his teams do in the playoffs? I don't think it should -- after all, Spurs fans made those same arguments about David.

Very fair minded and on-spot post.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't know that it has particular application to this thread, but there's an observation that has bugged me of late, so I'll add it here:

Spurs fans have become way too obsessed with definining individual greatness by team accomplishments. There was a time when Spurs fans argued vociferously that David Robinson was a great, great player despite the fact that his teams were generally playoff failures. Now, those same sorts of arguments about similar players get shouted down around here by a fanbase that has only recently come to understand the accomplishment that a title represents. I'm not saying that McGrady's career record doesn't deserve some skepticism, but defining whether he's a quality player or not by how his teams have performed at playoff time seems a bit absurd. Does McGrady's historical luster suffer in comparison to guys whose teams have won titles or been deep in the playoffs routinely? Sure. But does defining McGrady as a player depend entirely on what his teams do in the playoffs? I don't think it should -- after all, Spurs fans made those same arguments about David.

David and Sean were playoff under-achievers, bordering on outright playoff chokers. Regular season streaks don't mean shit if you can't win in the playoffs. Regular season records don't mean shit if you can't win in the playoffs. I say this and I believe it precisely because I lived and died with the Spurs' playoff failures in the 90s. Is McGrady a hall of famer? Without question. Is he one of the two or three best players I've ever seen live? Yep. He's an amazing amazing player, and a great talent, but you cannot talk about how great this streak is if we're going to give him a pass for failing in the playoffs again. The Rockets are either one of the best teams in the league or they aren't. Period. While I'm sympathetic to their having lost Yao, history doesn't care any more than the other 15 teams that qualify for the playoffs.

[The Franchise]

David and Sean were playoff under-achievers, bordering on outright playoff chokers. Regular season streaks don't mean shit if you can't win in the playoffs. Regular season records don't mean shit if you can't win in the playoffs. I say this and I believe it precisely because I lived and died with the Spurs' playoff failures in the 90s. Is McGrady a hall of famer? Without question. Is he one of the two or three best players I've ever seen live? Yep. He's an amazing amazing player, and a great talent, but you cannot talk about how great this streak is if we're going to give him a pass for failing in the playoffs again. The Rockets are either one of the best teams in the league or they aren't. Period. While I'm sympathetic to their having lost Yao, history doesn't care any more than the other 15 teams that qualify for the playoffs.
I totally agree with you. When the playoffs get here there are no excuses. I do think we are one of the best teams in the league, and after next week a lot of other skeptics will also. I will honestly say before Yao got hurt I felt we could beat any team in the league in a seven game series. After this 8 game streak without Yao I still do, but it also think it will be much more difficult. Alas, we have 18 more games before any of this matters. I can't wait!!! :hungry: