Bowen's reputation on display once again!!

[Princess Pimp]

Is he the dirtiest player in the NBA or what??

I know the frustration of watching your team lose by 25 points and Popovich throwing the white flag with plenty of time in the game (4, 5 minutes left in the game) are signs of losers, these things sometimes make you do some horrible things but this has to be one of the most pathetic displays in the history of the NBA:

w8WXVJQ06Sk

[ss1986v2]

pot. kettle. black.

7V8ZukXsWmk

[xcoriate]

Paul grabbed his leg, bowen shook him off

Both teams played hard

Good basketball.

[Kori Ellis]

Get HD and watch close so you can see Paul being a not so clean himself.

[SAtown]

I figured a PHX fan would start this thread... :lmao

[SAtown]

pot. kettle. black.


:lmao

[Kori Ellis]

blahblahblahblah

Amare shouldn't have got off the bench.

[Xylus]

It looks like Paul does something pretty undesirable to Bowen, and Bowen retaliates in a not-so-subtle fashion. The league should review the tape and punish both players accordingly.

Oh, and if any of you actually believe that Bowen was trying to "break loose" of Paul, take off your silver-and-black glasses, please.

[Princess Pimp]

Get HD and watch close so you can see Paul being a not so clean himself.

Even if Paul held his leg, thats not a reason to kick him.

[Kori Ellis]

Even if Paul held his leg, thats not a reason to kick him.
Watch again.

[bobbyjoe]

Bowen has really mastered the "committ a dirty act" then put your hands up with the "Who, me?" crap?

He did this after he kicked Ray Allen too in the back. Pulled back and immediately did the "who, me?" routine.

An observant ref would blow a whistle on Bowen the second he gave you the look because he's basically telling you he just had his hand in the cookie jar.

[Kori Ellis]

Umm.. Chris Paul throws a semi-punch in that video. I'd imagine that the Hornets don't really want the league to take a closer look.

[Princess Pimp]

Watch again.

BTW Kori, it's kinda of ironic seeing Bowen making those "NBA Cares" commercials don't you think?

[Kori Ellis]

BTW Kori, it's kinda of ironic seeing Bowen making those "NBA Cares" commercials don't you think?

No, he's ideal for it. He does a lot for the community and has never been in trouble with the law.

[atxrocker]

Umm.. Chris Paul throws a semi-punch in that video. I'd imagine that the Hornets don't really want the league to take a closer look.


does he? perhaps after being provoked. i'd imagine the spurs don't want the league to take a closer look at the dirtiest player still playing the game. funny that spur fan still supports him. are they really that blinded?

[Duncanoypi]

^WTF!looks whose talking? a Queens fan........

[cly2tw]

Umm.. Chris Paul throws a semi-punch in that video. I'd imagine that the Hornets don't really want the league to take a closer look.

A semi-punch towards Bowen's which part? Legs? Did Paul not go for a kick towards Bowen's groin like Bowen knee-kicked Nash at? That sure justifies retaliation of beating the living hell out of a body lying on the ground. :clap

[atxrocker]

rofl... say what you will. i saw the highlights and his play looked dirty as fuck. what's new there? seriously? do people have that much of an issue accepting this? SERIOUSLY?

[Allanon]

If Bowen gets suspended over this, that could end up pretty costly against an already good Detroit team. That would suck.

[SAtown]

If Bowen gets suspended over this, that could end up pretty costly against an already good Detroit team. That would suck.

Philadelphia didn't have Bowen last night.

[Kori Ellis]

rofl... say what you will. i saw the highlights and his play looked dirty as fuck. what's new there? seriously? do people have that much of an issue accepting this? SERIOUSLY?

The play is pretty dirty/chippy/whatever you want to say on both sides.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol

The obsession continues.™

[atxrocker]

If Bowen gets suspended over this.


i'm guessing you're not familiar with bowen's work. this is what he does. on a regular basis. nothing will come of this. take my word.

[atxrocker]

The play is pretty dirty/chippy/whatever you want to say on both sides.


even if true, who has the HISTORY of being dirty? not paul, that's for sure.

[Princess Pimp]

Philadelphia didn't have Bowen last night.

:wtf

[SAtown]

I didn't think Kingfan would become the next whiney bitch on ST. I figured it would be a Lakerfan

[Allanon]

Philadelphia didn't have Bowen last night.

I'm not sure what you mean?

Ah, I think I know what you mean, the Philly game last night where they beat the Pistons?

What I'm saying if Bowen gets suspended, he won't be available when the Spurs play the Pistons on Friday.

[atxrocker]

I didn't think Kingfan would become the next whiney bitch on ST. I figured it would be a Lakerfan


oh noes.. does this mean i don't make your top 10? :pctoss

[bobbyjoe]

even if true, who has the HISTORY of being dirty? not paul, that's for sure.

Not in the pro's at least lol.

Deep inside, all Spurs fans know Bowen is flat out dirty. Most just wont admit it, but they know it.

[SAtown]

If Bowen gets suspended over this, that could end up pretty costly against an already good Detroit team. That would suck.


Philadelphia didn't have Bowen last night.


:wtf

It means that you don't need Bruce Bowen to beat the Pistons, dumbass.

[ss1986v2]

rofl... say what you will. i saw the highlights and his play looked dirty as fuck. what's new there? seriously? do people have that much of an issue accepting this? SERIOUSLY?
some spurs fans are very good at not seeing things they dont want to see. same of all fans. dont take it too seriously.

that said, bowen is dirty as sin. i know it, you know it, and the entire league knows it (hell, spurs players joke about it). and hes damn good at it (probably the best in about a decade or so).

but you tend to spin that as something i shouldnt like. well, i dont; i love it. if hes good enough to do it, and get away with it, hooray for him and the spurs. same goes for players like raja bell and matt harpring. when those guys play on your team, you love them. when you go against them, you hate them. and im fine with that.

[cly2tw]

Not in the pro's at least lol.

Deep inside, all Spurs fans know Bowen is flat out dirty. Most just wont admit it, but they know it.

They always find some excuse to comfort their own minds of siding with the devil. :ihit

Kneeing Nash into his groin, it's legitimate "clearing space" for the offensive player. Kicking Amare's heel at his dunk, well, that's sending a necessary message for the common good of the good guys called Spurs' team. What else is new?

[Duncanoypi]

even if true, who has the HISTORY of being dirty? not paul, that's for sure.

Ron Artest... :pctoss

[ss1986v2]

even if true, who has the HISTORY of being dirty? not paul, that's for sure.
julius hodge says "hello". in a voice two octaves higher than normal at that...

not that i care about this particular point (the dirt is on bowens hands, err... foot, on this one), but i had to bring it up.

[ChumpDumper]

They always find some excuse to comfort their own minds of siding with the devil. :ihit

Kneeing Nash into his groin, it's legitimate "clearing space" for the offensive player. Kicking Amare's heel at his dunk, well, that's sending a necessary message for the common good of the good guys called Spurs' team. What else is new?Stay near the bench.

That is my message for the common good of the Suns.

[cly2tw]

but you tend to spin that as something i shouldnt like. well, i dont; i love it. if hes good enough to do it, and get away with it, hooray for him and the spurs. same goes for players like raja bell and matt harpring. when those guys play on your team, you love them. when you go against them, you hate them. and im fine with that.

I commend you for being honest. However, Bowen dirty is not the same like Raja dirty or even Harpring dirty. Raja is kind of Stockton dirty, never going so far as hurting the other players. Harpring is more Malone dirty. Bowen has his own category of being the dirtist dirty!

[ChumpDumper]

Command?

[cly2tw]

Stay near the bench.

That is my message for the common good of the Suns.

Wow, Hawks fan sighting! You almost got Amare in the offseason, could have gotten CP3. My God, you guys would have rocked! Now, give us a lottery pick for the common good of the league, would you? :lol :clap

[Princess Pimp]

It means that you don't need Bruce Bowen to beat the Pistons, dumbass.

Bowen or not Bowen, the Pistons will kick your asses!

[atxrocker]

jesus cly2tw and the likes make horrible trolls and/or MUST be foreign fans from another country.

[Princess Pimp]

Stay near the bench.

That is my message for the common good of the Suns.

Weak!

[ChumpDumper]

Wow, Hawks fan sighting! You almost got Amare in the offseason, could have gotten CP3. My God, you guys would have rocked! Now, give us a lottery pick for the common good of the league, would you? :lol :clapYou are a heady veteran poster with a lot of experience and valuable insight.

[koriwhat]

They always find some excuse to comfort their own minds of siding with the devil. :ihit

Kneeing Nash into his groin, it's legitimate "clearing space" for the offensive player. Kicking Amare's heel at his dunk, well, that's sending a necessary message for the common good of the good guys called Spurs' team. What else is new?

talk about kicking. look what i found...

Scmx1z94WAI


3RDYD0EUBzY

[Duncanoypi]

oh noes.. does this mean i don't make your top 10? :pctoss

yes...coz your team will not even make it to the playoffs..... :hungry:

[ChumpDumper]

I'm a rocketfan posing as a sunfan on spurs board!

[cly2tw]

jesus cly2tw and the likes make horrible trolls and/or MUST be foreign fans from another country.

horrible because i'm from other countries? :nope

[K-State Spur]

Not in the pro's at least lol.

Deep inside, all Spurs fans know Bowen is flat out dirty. Most just wont admit it, but they know it.

and most fans of other teams have to blissfully ignore that bowen doesn't do much that a lot of other guys aren't doing, he's just under their microscope.

if bowen had nailed felton like nash did earlier this year, you'd all have been up in arms. but nash is just a "scrapper" not "dirty."

[Princess Pimp]

talk about kicking. look what i found...

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Scmx1z94WAI&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Scmx1z94WAI&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FhzVTB8ryQM&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FhzVTB8ryQM&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

cause and effect:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3RDYD0EUBzY&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3RDYD0EUBzY&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


EDIT: can a mod fix the links?

Fixed!

FhzVTB8ryQM&hl

[Princess Pimp]

I'm not a Rockets fan, but hell!!! they are playing better that the spurs, I sure would be proud to be a Rockets fan.

[cly2tw]

You are a heady veteran poster with a lot of experience and valuable insight.

Horford/Paculla/JoshSmith/JJ/CP3/JoshChildres/Sheldon

I think this team would win in the East ahead of Pistons and Celtics. Agree?

Or how about an Amare/JJ/Marvin core? :toast

[Kori Ellis]

Just so people know, this is how you post YouTube videos:

[ youtube ]3RDYD0EUBzY[ /youtube ]

Then take out the spaces.

[bobbyjoe]

That's absolutely absurd.

Bowen's habit of undercutting jumpshooters by sticking his foot underneath the area so they cant even go straight up and down without risking landing on his foot is one of the most despicable things I've ever seen on a basketball court. It's pitiful, shameful, and disgraceful.

A punch to the face is less dirty because Bowen's type of plays recklessly put players ankles and knees in jeopardy. It's not basketball. It's called being a coward.

And he's the only master of it. I have yet to see "a lot of other guys" do it.

Look at the Amare play of last year. No way is Bruce going to stop a bucket there. The only goal is to trip and injure. Easily can cause an achilles tear with bushleague "basketball" like that.

The difference between Nash and Bowen? Nash has committed 1, maybe 2 dirty plays in his career. Bowen? Too many to count.

Outside of SA, no one thinks of Bowen as being other than one of the if not THE dirtiest players in the NBA. They all arent ignorant or blind. It's pretty damn obvious.

[ss1986v2]

I commend you for being honest. However, Bowen dirty is not the same like Raja dirty or even Harpring dirty. Raja is kind of Stockton dirty, never going so far as hurting the other players. Harpring is more Malone dirty. Bowen has his own category of being the dirtist dirty!
well then, as i said before:

hooray!

[ChumpDumper]

Horford/Paculla/JoshSmith/JJ/CP3/JoshChildres/Sheldon

I think this team would win in the East ahead of Pistons and Celtics. Agree?

Or how about an Amare/JJ/Marvin core? :toastAll in good time.

[Kori Ellis]

Look at the Amare play of last year. No way is Bruce going to stop a bucket there. The only goal is to trip and injure. Easily can cause an achilles tear with bushleague "basketball" like that.

:lmao

That was funny. The Amare "kick" was the most overblown thing ever. He tapped the bag of his heel. Bowen has done some dirty things before, but that wasn't one of them.

[atxrocker]

bruce bowen has really managed to get success out of his style of play. props to him for that. i'm just impressed that he's never really compromised on his gritty play and has yet to be called on it. ever. not once. he'll retire taking someone down and the masses will love him. that guy really has it made. :toast

[ChumpDumper]

yet to be called on it. ever. not once.
:lmao

[cly2tw]

and most fans of other teams have to blissfully ignore that bowen doesn't do much that a lot of other guys aren't doing, he's just under their microscope.

if bowen had nailed felton like nash did earlier this year, you'd all have been up in arms. but nash is just a "scrapper" not "dirty."

Reputation. Ever heard of this word? Nash doesn't have a reputation of trying to intimidate the offensive player with tunneling, kicking their heels, their groins, or the living hell out of them while lying on the floor.

[atxrocker]

has he ever taken any real heat for it?? after years of the same stunts, has any real attention ever been shifted his way?

[Kori Ellis]

has he ever taken any real heat for it?? after years of the same stunts, has any real attention ever been shifted his way?

:lol You must have missed out on the Ray Allen/Vince Carter whining that caused every media outlet in the country to be on his ass about it.

[ChumpDumper]

has he ever taken any real heat for it?? after years of the same stunts, has any real attention ever been shifted his way?You are seriously asking this question in the middle of a Bruce Bowen whine thread?

[bobbyjoe]

:lmao

That was funny. The Amare "kick" was the most overblown thing ever. He tapped the bag of his heel. Bowen has done some dirty things before, but that wasn't one of them.

You obviously dont know much about achilles tendon injuries. Amare fell awkwardly and was damn lucky to avoid a serious injury.

If Bowen tries that play on Amare 10 times, Amare probably ends up injured 30-40% of the time.

The point is obviously not the severity of the tap. The point is there is absolutely no logical reason, excuse, or explanation for a clean basketball player with any semblance of a conscience or integrity to stick his leg out like that. Only bad things will happen.

Kicking a man in the back like that just shows what a low-life coward you are. Sort of like when Bowen instead of confronting Ray Allen like a man kicked him in the back. It's a trend with Bruce. He's the master of subtle, but inherently dirty (or pitiful) extracurricular activity on the court.

Sticking a foot under a jumpshooter's space is also very subtle. You could even call it a "slight tap" like you did. It's also very dangerous and dirty. And perhaps the 100000th time you do it, you lose the right to call it an accident.

[ChumpDumper]

100000th timeWow. That's a lot of YouTubes!

[atxrocker]

:lol You must have missed out on the Ray Allen/Vince Carter whining that caused every media outlet in the country to be on his ass about it.


each season apparently is a new opportunity for bruce to try to outdue himself.

[Kori Ellis]

You obviously dont know much about achilles tendon injuries. Amare fell awkwardly and was damn lucky to avoid a serious injury.

If Bowen tries that play on Amare 10 times, Amare probably ends up injured 30-40% of the time.

The point is obviously not the severity of the tap. The point is there is absolutely no logical reason, excuse, or explanation for a clean basketball player with any semblance of a conscience or integrity to stick his leg out like that. Only bad things will happen.

Kicking a man in the back like that just shows what a low-life coward you are. Sort of like when Bowen instead of confronting Ray Allen like a man kicked him in the back. It's a trend with Bruce. He's the master of subtle, but inherently dirty (or pitiful) extracurricular activity on the court.

Sticking a foot under a jumpshooter's space is also very subtle. You could even call it a "slight tap" like you did. It's also very dangerous and dirty. And perhaps the 100000th time you do it, you lose the right to call it an accident.

Umm.. Amare didn't fall when Bowen "kicked him." He came down on his opposite foot and barely stumbled.

Bowen kicked Ray Allen in his back for holding onto his leg ... no one, even Bruce, would say that was a clean play.

Players get under the shooter all the time. Years ago, when the Bowen whining started with Ray and Vince, Manu came down on someone's foot on the same night as one of the Bowen whiners did. It's obviously sneaky and not clean, but Bowen isn't the only one who ever does it.

[bobbyjoe]

Sorry, I meant stumbled. The line between stumbling and your leg giving out and having a serious injury is very, very thin.

The reason for the stumble was pretty clearly the kick to the back of the heel. Amare dunks a lot and I've yet to ever see him lack explosion and stumble like he did on that play.

Try getting kicked in the back of the foot when you are jumping as high as you can and tell me it doesnt affect you when landing...

R.E. getting under shooters: The difference with Bowen is that he will come all the way underneath your airspace to the point where you sometimes can't even go straight up and down without landing on his foot.

Name me one other NBA player who has been involved in something like that on multiple occasions and warned to stop doing it by the NBA.

[cly2tw]

play.

Players get under the shooter all the time. Years ago, when the Bowen whining started with Ray and Vince, Manu came down on someone's foot on the same night as one of the Bowen whiners did. It's obviously sneaky and not clean, but Bowen isn't the only one who ever does it.

Don't bring on Manu. His acting on falling down on somebody's feet caused Barbosa to sit 3 months after Manu crashed into LB's knee. Manu would change direction in the air to lean on you that you can't really anticipate where his feet would land after his jump. He is a flopper and taking his flopper's chances.risk and successful.

[Kori Ellis]

R.E. getting under shooters: The difference with Bowen is that he will come all the way underneath your airspace to the point where you sometimes can't even go straight up and down without landing on his foot.

Name me one other NBA player who has been involved in something like that on multiple occasions and warned to stop doing it by the NBA.

There's not another player to name. Very few players crowd the opponent on D like Bowen does. As far as I recall, only three players (Carter/Allen/Francis) have called out Bowen for it (prompting the league's phone call after the Francis incident).

That's a very small percentage considering all his years in the league guarding all the top perimeter players. *shrug*

[Princess Pimp]

Can anobody talk about Ginobili's 11-point performance?

Is he injured? or is it another one of his usual streaky games?

IMO If Ginobili is not 100% the Spurs are in big trouble!!!

Simply because Ginobili is the Spurs MVP

[Kori Ellis]

Can anobody talk about Ginobili's 11-point performance?

Is he injured? or is it another one of his usual streaky games?

IMO If Ginobili is not 100% the Spurs are in big trouble!!!

Simply because Ginobili is the Spurs MVP

No NBA player is 100% at this time of year. He's not injured - he's banged up with a high hip/thigh bruise, but nothing major. He just wasn't that aggressive today.

[mikekim]

I love how everyone just sees whatever they want when it comes to Bruce. And whatever they want to see is an evil, despicable, no-good villain.

He might cross the line sometimes but like I've always said, his top priority has always been to make the play. Now, it may be argued that perhaps he doesn't care enough about the effects of his extremely diligent efforts on defense on the well-being of other players. But I seriously and completely doubt he is ever trying to hurt anyone with his defense.


Name me one other NBA player who has been involved in something like that on multiple occasions and warned to stop doing it by the NBA.

Name one other NBA player who plays defense half as hard as Bruce.

...But I think 99.9% of Bruce Bowen threads or discussions are pointless. No one is going to really change their minds after reading/posting/talking.

You're either objective about it...like most people in this thread who are seeing both sides, or you're going to be completely and thoroughly biased...like those who say Bruce is evil incarnate or those who say that he doesn't do anything that can be irksome or dangerous. (But I will always stand by my opinion that he is not a dirty player, because I believe dirtiness is an issue of character and intent to harm.)

Maybe the rules have to change to protect the offensive player more...but it hasn't, and i guess Bruce is the only one who is "taking advantage" by playing as hard a defense as the rules allow. Go back to tape of the 80's and 90's...that's when more than a handful of players actually played defense in the league. Then judge Bruce's defense by those standards...it's not a perfect way to broaden the perspective (hand check rules today...), but whatever...you're only going to see what you want to see anyway.

[bobbyjoe]

There's not another player to name. Very few players crowd the opponent on D like Bowen does. As far as I recall, only three players (Carter/Allen/Francis) have called out Bowen for it (prompting the league's phone call after the Francis incident).

That's a very small percentage considering all his years in the league guarding all the top perimeter players. *shrug*

You forgot Phil Jackson, Isiah Thomas, Amare Stoudemire, Jamaal Crawford, Michael Finley, Jason Terry, Steve Nash among others.

Guys like Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan, Joe Dumars, Ron Artest, and Reuben Patterson all played crowding, suffocating D.

Of course I dont remember one ankle-breaking incident.

Do you honestly think only 3 people have called out Bowen?

[Kori Ellis]

Isiah Thomas/Jamaal Crawford (both were the same incident), I forgot about.

Amare/Finley/Terry/Nash - didn't call out Bowen for undercutting jump shooters (that's what I'm talking about)

[mikekim]

Guys like Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan, Joe Dumars, Ron Artest, and Reuben Patterson all played crowding, suffocating D.

Of course I dont remember one ankle-breaking incident.


Go back and watch the tape. I also think part of it has to do with the fact that players just aren't used to working against a tough, in-your-face, physical defense in the NBA today. Guys are used to being allowed some more "personal space."

As for the tape, you can start with the Chris Paul tape at the beginning of this thread. I think it's pretty obvious that Paul is at least at just as much fault as Bruce for the scuffle/confrontation between the two.

I think Kori covered the other parts of what you just posted.

Edit: In regards to Artest and Patterson, who play in today's NBA (patterson sucks, by the way), they play an entirely different sort of defense than Bruce. Although they are all on the perimeter, Artest's defense is more reliant on his strength and size. Bruce isn't that big or strong, so his defense is more reliant on positioning, denying, and crowding -- which is a more difficult and exhausting defense to play...and also 10X more annoying.

[timvp]

Bowen plays defense like his life depends on you not scoring on him in this possession. He's bound to piss you off at some point.

Oh and Bowen knew exactly what he was doing against Paul. Paul is a hot head whose one major flaw is you can rattle him if you play him physically. Bowen knows this and tried to get Paul agitated and off of his game. He succeeded for the most part but the game was too far over to matter.

[timvp]

Crybaby fans act like Bowen does this (http://www.extremesportclips.com/video/1140/Chris-Paul-Punches-Julius-Hodge.html) on a nightly basis.

[Korny Earl]

bowen is by so far, not the only player who tests the limits mannnnnn at allll.
he knows wtf the refs do or wont do... the tendencies of the game or obvious to him.
why cant that be that?
he does not cheat... he plays, on a level people envy? I mean shit. if it wasnt bowen then who would it be?

[mikejones99]

that cunt is sill able to post in here? phx fans should be ashamed

[JamStone]

Back to the actual incident, I just wanted to add my opinion on what happened.

First, I like Bruce Bowen, but he definitely pushes the envelop when it comes to being dirty. But, that's part of his make-up and how he has made himself a good player in the league. I don't think a lot of what he does is much of a big deal. There are some, and I actually think this was one of those cases.

While it may look like Chris Paul hit Bowen in between the legs, I think it's debatable because the basketball was still around that area and Paul was trying to get it. But, it's also arguable the other way and he very well may have had made an attempt to hit Bowen in an inappropriate place.

However, with what Bruce did, there is no debate as to what he did. There was an intentional knee to Paul's upper body to push him back down to the floor. And, my biggest problem with it was that it was that it happened after the whistle was blown. Even if you want to argue that Bruce was just trying to get into Paul's head and get him to blow a fuse, I think it's unnecessary to do it in such a manner. Do it during the game, not after play is whistled dead. That's bush.

Now, people have already mentioned it, and we already know that Chris Paul is as competitive as they come, exemplified with him punching Julius Hodge in his balls in college. I actually don't think Paul has a problem with rough, physical play when it's about competition and winning games. But, I do think when the whistle blows, it's a different story.

Paul probably wasn't playing very cleanly either, but I think in this instance Bruce was more in the wrong for what he did.

[timvp]

I just watched the video from the first post. That's a bad angle to see what actually happened. In the Spurs broadcast, they showed a much better angle. When Paul violently goes back to the court at the end of the skirmish Bowen didn't really touch him. That was just Paul flopping to the ground after momentarily losing his cool and taking a swipe at Bowen. The angle shown in that video makes it look like Bowen kicked him to the ground ....... but that's not what really happened.

[mojorizen7]

some spurs fans are very good at not seeing things they dont want to see. same of all fans. dont take it too seriously.

that said, bowen is dirty as sin. i know it, you know it, and the entire league knows it (hell, spurs players joke about it). and hes damn good at it (probably the best in about a decade or so).

but you tend to spin that as something i shouldnt like. well, i dont; i love it. if hes good enough to do it, and get away with it, hooray for him and the spurs. same goes for players like raja bell and matt harpring. when those guys play on your team, you love them. when you go against them, you hate them. and im fine with that.

We have a winner.
Also, Bowen's behavior isn't shocking or anything. Like many other once talented guys, they get old,their skills erode, and they resort to cheap tactics in order to either
A) Gain an advantage or
B) Vent their frustrations over becoming basically old and ineffective otherwise.
Horry is prime example A
Ainge was that guy when he was a SUN.
To be fair...Shaq may become that guy too but like the above poster said...
As long as he's on my team and not taking shit from anybody it's cool.
It is what it is and it's pathetic looking from the outside in.

[Kori Ellis]

Oh my gosh, I just watched the video in slow-motion on our TV - Paul hits Bowen in the nuts twice! We are going to sleep right now, but timvp will clip/upload the slow-motion version when we wake up. It doesn't look like Bowen even kicks him - Paul just flails back.

[Shred]

Amare shouldn't have got off the bench.

*

[JamStone]

If Paul hits Bowen in the nuts, then Paul is definitely wrong.

But, I don't buy any argument that involves defending Bowen because his attempt at kneeing him didn't actually connect. It was still blatant that there was intent to make contact with the knee. Just like taking a swing at someone but not connecting would still be an assault.

[DarrinS]

Oh my gosh, I just watched the video in slow-motion on our TV - Paul hits Bowen in the nuts twice! We are going to sleep right now, but timvp will clip/upload the slow-motion version when we wake up. It doesn't look like Bowen even kicks him - Paul just flails back.


Reminds me of when JET was speed-bagging Finley.

[Kori Ellis]

If Paul hits Bowen in the nuts, then Paul is definitely wrong...


He clearly hits him in the nuts ... twice. There's not even any mistaking it. I thought I saw it when the game was playing. But we just looked in a clear, slow-motion version on our Slingbox. There's not a doubt.

[DarrinS]

He clearly hits him in the nuts ... twice. There's not even any mistaking it. I thought I saw it when the game was playing. But we just looked in a clear, slow-motion version on our Slingbox. There's not a doubt.


Was he just fighting for loose balls?

[JamStone]

Cool. Paul was definitely wrong in doing so.

Bowen is in the wrong for trying to knee Paul in the head.

[BonnerDynasty]

Welcome to the NBA young fella

[urunobili]

CP3 got what he deserved.. that's what Bruce is all about... a justifier presence... like it or hate it... who gives a shit? he plays on the edge but never suspended.. do you think he bribes Stu Jackson? :nope:

[RonMexico]

I think Duncan saw Bowen's knee come out b/c he stepped right in between the two pretty quickly.

[Don Quixote]

Who cares. They're all competitors, and the game was still close at the time.

I was there, and I didn't see what the big deal was. The Hornets fans got all upset though.

[DazedAndConfused]

Bowen is the dirtiest player in the NBA today.

That being said, CP3 is a hothead. He will throw elbows at you if he's mad and it's really easy to make him mad if you play pestering defense on him. Derek Fisher somehow managed to get under his skin and CP3 threw an elbow that clocked him right in the lip and caused him to start bleeding. Trust me, CP3 is NO angel.

On this particular play you can see CP3 taking a swipe at Bowen when he's on the floor. What Bowen does looks like it's retaliation IMHO, still doesn't make it right though. Especially because it was after the whistle. That being said, nothing should come of this because it's just not a big deal.

[DarrinS]

Bowen is the dirtiest player in the NBA today.

That being said, CP3 is a hothead. He will throw elbows at you if he's mad and it's really easy to make him mad if you play pestering defense on him. Derek Fisher somehow managed to get under his skin and CP3 threw an elbow that clocked him right in the lip and caused him to start bleeding. Trust me, CP3 is NO angel.

On this particular play you can see CP3 taking a swipe at Bowen when he's on the floor. What Bowen does looks like it's retaliation IMHO, still doesn't make it right though. Especially because it was after the whistle. That being said, nothing should come of this because it's just not a big deal.


I'm just glad Kobe is not "following through" on this jump shots like last season.

Sincerely,

Ginobili's Nose

[DazedAndConfused]

OK I just rewatched the play again, Bowen delivers a pretty hard love tap to CP3 right before he goes down in an attempt to steal the ball. CP3 takes some swipes at Bowen while going for the ball. Bowen CLEARLY knees him back in retaliation. What CP3 did can be construed as going for the ball, what Bowen did was clearly trying to knee a player after the whistle is blown.

[daslicer]

Who cares. They're all competitors, and the game was still close at the time.

I was there, and I didn't see what the big deal was. The Hornets fans got all upset though.

Actually Paul is a POS person in the mold of Jason Terry except he's much more talented. I live in NC so I got to watch him a lot while he played at wake forest and he did pretty much the same stuff he did to Bowen on a regualr basis when opposing teams played him physical. ITs exactly like what Timvp said which is he's a hothead and will get rattled when he goes up against an aggressive defender. The guy is cheap as hell I remember a game he played against NC.State in which he punched Julius Hodge right in the dick ala Jason Terry style. Just like JT he denied it but when it came on tape he acknowledged it. After he got suspsended he made up more lies about why he commited the act and stated the reason for the act was due to himbeing angry about State fans chanting they killed his grandpa which was more bs that was debunked. He's an elite PG but I hate that MOFO.

[samikeyp]

Sounds like he was going for Bowen's balls. :lol

I am not saying Bowen is innocent of anything but this kind of stuff goes on nightly in the NBA. If you can ever get a seat behind one of the baskets, watch what goes on....its crazy. I think its hilarious that the Spur-haters use this to proclaim that the ENTIRE team is dirty based on the actions of one player and that Bruce Bowen is the only player in the entire NBA that does stuff and they do it for the sole reason that they hate the Spurs.

[703 Spurz]

Is he the dirtiest player in the NBA or what??

I know the frustration of watching your team lose by 25 points and Popovich throwing the white flag with plenty of time in the game (4, 5 minutes left in the game) are signs of losers, these things sometimes make you do some horrible things but this has to be one of the most pathetic displays in the history of the NBA:

w8WXVJQ06Sk

Can we get some fucking bathroom spray in here, it constantly smells like shit. It's so biazarre

[ploto]

Even some people involved with the Spurs admit privately that Bowen crosses the line at times.

[ploto]

It is no coincidence that these "accidents" with Bowen somehow always involve the guy who is going off on the Spurs. He somehow never accidentally kicks or steps under a guy who is sucking that night.

[samikeyp]

Even some people involved with the Spurs admit privately that Bowen crosses the line at times.


No doubt. There are also some Spurs fans out there that if Bowen stabbed someone on the court, they would still yell "Good D!" :lol

My point is that as much as there are homers yelling for Bowen simply because he is a Spur, there are haters yelling against Bowen simply because he is a Spur.

[RonMexico]

I heard that Bowen was the one who shot Julius Hodge when he was a rookie.

So you decide which is worse: nut-punching or gun play?

[Doug Collins]

I heard that Bowen was the one who shot Julius Hodge when he was a rookie.

So you decide which is worse: nut-punching or gun play?

Technically, isn't nut-punching a form of gun play?

[samikeyp]

Technically, isn't nut-punching a form of gun play?


"This is my rifle, this is my gun, this is for pleasure and this is for fun!"

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/images/full-metal-jacket-ermey.jpg

:lol

[E20]

This is the main reason why I love Bowen. He's so edgy and controversial and pisses people off and doesn't give a fuck who he pisses off. He's not scared of anybody.

[endrity]

While people hate Bowen because he is on the Spurs, they would all love him if he was playing for them. You don't win a championship with nice guys, you need someone to give you an edge, someone who can get inside the heads of the opposition. That's how it's always been.

Spurs have Bowen; the Heat had Patyon, Zo, Posey; the Pistons had Chauncey, Ben, Sheed; the Bulls had Rodman and Horace Grant, and Jordan himself was no angel on the court.

Now, is Bowen dirty? You betcha, probably the Lambeer of this generation.

[samikeyp]

While people hate Bowen because he is on the Spurs, they would all love him if he was playing for them. You don't win a championship with nice guys, you need someone to give you an edge, someone who can get inside the heads of the opposition. That's how it's always been.

:tu

Although I would disagree with the Laimbeer comparison. Bruce is very subtle, Bill was very blatant and didn't care who saw! :lol

[hater]

Bowen's job is to come in and harrass ppl. That is the mission Pop has given him.

CP3, was acting like a little bitch. Job well done Bruce.

[Soul_Patch]

Bowen has been known to eat small children too...

[endrity]

Bowen's job is to come in and harrass ppl. That is the mission Pop has given him.

CP3, was acting like a little bitch. Job well done Bruce.

Ok, see this is the other side of the coin. What was CP3 doing that was making him a bitch???? Winning a game???

Some dude just wrote that Spurs fans would say "Good D" even if Bowen stabbed someone, and you are one of them. Can't you admit that Bowen is dirty to a certain extent.

[LEONARD]

Bowen is dirty as all hell, but a good guy off the court...

Any fan would want him on their team, but hate him when he's playing against their team...

[Phenomanul]

It is no coincidence that these "accidents" with Bowen somehow always involve the guy who is going off on the Spurs. He somehow never accidentally kicks or steps under a guy who is sucking that night.


well duh..... Bowen always guards the opposition's best perimeter player.

:reading

Everybody knows this...

[endrity]

:tu

Although I would disagree with the Laimbeer comparison. Bruce is very subtle, Bill was very blatant and didn't care who saw! :lol

True, Bill was very blatant. but it was a different era, when that kind of roughness was expected to a certain extent. Now everyone is trying to be nice, trying to get some of the corporate money with endorsments, so no one does it in the open.

But Bruce is still the best at getting in the opposition's head in the league right now. He sometimes takes it a little too far, with Ray Allen for example, when he stick his foot underneath. That should be punishable to the greatest degree.

[Obstructed_View]

If someone punched me in the nuts while I was standing over him I'd kick his ass away from me, too. If anyone's going to get suspended, it's Paul.

[endrity]

If someone punched me in the nuts while I was standing over him I'd kick his ass away from me, too. If anyone's going to get suspended, it's Paul.

of course, Bruce is the victim. :rolleyes

[hater]

Ok, see this is the other side of the coin. What was CP3 doing that was making him a bitch???? Winning a game???

Some dude just wrote that Spurs fans would say "Good D" even if Bowen stabbed someone, and you are one of them. Can't you admit that Bowen is dirty to a certain extent.

CP3 kept crying to the refs while game was in play. Spur players wait at least until game is stopped to complain :D

yeah you and the world can keep saying Bowen is dirty. Truth is, everyone would love Bowen in their team. So we love Bowen. end of story.

[Obstructed_View]

of course, Bruce is the victim. :rolleyes
Look at the video. He got punched. I know as a Mavericks fan, you think that's a perfectly valid way to deal with a scamble for the ball, but the rulebook says otherwise.

[Holt's Cat]

even if true, who has the HISTORY of being dirty? not paul, that's for sure.

Go hit a few lines, cokehead.

[Obstructed_View]

Some dude just wrote that Spurs fans would say "Good D" even if Bowen stabbed someone, and you are one of them. Can't you admit that Bowen is dirty to a certain extent.
So did Bowen deserve to get punched?

[ambchang]

Bowen has really mastered the "committ a dirty act" then put your hands up with the "Who, me?" crap?

He did this after he kicked Ray Allen too in the back. Pulled back and immediately did the "who, me?" routine.

An observant ref would blow a whistle on Bowen the second he gave you the look because he's basically telling you he just had his hand in the cookie jar.

Bullshit

MLgHeeOZJFI

[CarefreeAZ]

CP3 kept crying to the refs while game was in play. Spur players wait at least until game is stopped to complain :D

yeah you and the world can keep saying Bowen is dirty. Truth is, everyone would love Bowen in their team. So we love Bowen. end of story.

Um No. Bowen is like Barry Bonds. He's only liked by San Antonio fans. Try that crap in the Playoffs and someone is going to use that smoothly shaved penis head as a bowling ball.

[Obstructed_View]

Um No. Bowen is like Barry Bonds. He's only liked by San Antonio fans. Try that crap in the Playoffs and someone is going to use that smoothly shaved penis head as a bowling ball.
The tough talk from the bottle-throwers is always good for a laugh.

[Obstructed_View]

He sometimes takes it a little too far, with Ray Allen for example, when he stick his foot underneath. That should be punishable to the greatest degree.
Since they changed the rules because of him, yet he's never been called for it, it sounds like yet more bitter hysteria from those who don't like Bruce shutting down their superstars.


Like the OP said, it's Bowen's "reputation" on display, not his actual behavior or history.

[endrity]

Look at the video. He got punched. I know as a Mavericks fan, you think that's a perfectly valid way to deal with a scamble for the ball, but the rulebook says otherwise.

I really don't think he was trying to punch bowen other than scramble for the ball, bowen wasn't being delicate either

And for anything a Mav might have done on the court, Bowen has surpassed them.

Look i don't care that he is dirty, I said it that every team needs guys like these if they are going to win, but it is irritating when people in here say that he is only playing good d.

[Obstructed_View]

I really don't think he was trying to punch bowen other than scramble for the ball, bowen wasn't being delicate either
So Chris Paul, who has actually punched someone on the court before, deserves benefit of the doubt (despite video evidence to the contrary) yet Bowen doesn't get a pass for retaliating because he wasn't being "delicate". Gotcha.


And for anything a Mav might have done on the court, Bowen has surpassed them.
Defensively? Yes. Big game performance? Yes. Dirty play? Not even close. Dirk just served a game suspension for a flagrant 2. Bowen never has.


Look i don't care that he is dirty, I said it that every team needs guys like these if they are going to win, but it is irritating when people in here say that he is only playing good d.
Since you keep trying to make him out to be dirty, despite evidence to the contrary, you obviously care. When there's some evidence that he does something other than play good D then I'll be there to criticize him for it.

[Allanon]

Bowen is obviously a dirty player. He gets away with it, that's his talent. But to say he is not dirty?

Bowen has too many "coincidences" where the other team's player gets taken out with Bowen guarding him.

aFvk4qHkT10

[DazedAndConfused]

^Clearly something is obstructing your view when watching Bruce Bowen. He is THE dirtiest player in the NBA today, it isn't even close at this point.

[endrity]

I don't need to make a case after that video.

[atxrocker]

Go hit a few lines, cokehead.


so are you denying that bruce has a long history of being notoriously dirty?

[Obstructed_View]

^Clearly something is obstructing your view when watching Bruce Bowen. He is THE dirtiest player in the NBA today, it isn't even close at this point.
And that's why Bowen has more suspensions that Kobe Bryant does for dirty play. Oh wait, he doesn't. It isn't even close at this point... :lol

[Obstructed_View]

so are you denying that bruce has a long history of being notoriously dirty?
Show me the history. He has a reputation. He's notorious. There's no fact there. You could put together a video of people getting hurt when anyone was defending them and make them look bad. Nobody bothers to for anyone else because they aren't as good a defender as Bowen. It's easier to live with your good players getting their asses shut down when you think he has to cheat to do it. That he doesn't get suspensions, technical fouls, flagrants or even disqualifications despite that reputation means he's probably not doing anything illegal.

[samikeyp]

I really don't think he was trying to punch bowen other than scramble for the ball, bowen wasn't being delicate either

And for anything a Mav might have done on the court, Bowen has surpassed them.

Look i don't care that he is dirty, I said it that every team needs guys like these if they are going to win, but it is irritating when people in here say that he is only playing good d.


I don't know....I would put Jason Terry's nut shot in the 06 playoffs up there too. ;)

You are right IMO about the good D part. He does play good D but everything he does is not good defense. I don't think Bowen is dirty because that implies premeditation. I seriously doubt that he sits in the locker room before a game and thinks "Hmm...we are playing Dallas tonight...I need to go for Dirk's knees". Of course I can't prove that...and neither can anyone on this board. What I think happens is that he goes for anyway to get in an opponents head and will go outside the structure of the rules to do it...as do a lot of players. I don't think he wants to or purposely tries to injure players but I also think he does what he can get away with.

[samikeyp]

^Clearly something is obstructing your view when watching Bruce Bowen. He is THE dirtiest player in the NBA today, it isn't even close at this point.


opinion, not fact.

[VaSpursFan]

who cares about dirt...if you can get away with it use it to your advantage. stockton did for years.

[samikeyp]

who cares about dirt...if you can get away with it use it to your advantage. stockton did for years.


True as did many players and as many still do. endrity had a good point when he mentioned that. I think its funny when non-Spurs fans come to a Spurs board to diss Bowen then act incredulous when some Spurs fans stick up for him. Hell, there are still people in Utah who think Malone's elbow to DRob's head was unintentional. :)

[DDS4]

Bruce does play dirty from time to time, doesn't make him a dirty player.

I find it hypocritical that someone started this thread with Raja Bell on their favorite team. At least Bruce hasn't clotheslined someone (yet).

[sa_kid20]

If anybody has a video of this from the Spurs broadcast could they please post it so we can put this issue to bed.

[samikeyp]

If anybody has a video of this from the Spurs broadcast could they please post it so we can put this issue to bed.

It might for this particular incident but the Spur haters won't let it go until he retires...and maybe even not then.

[JamStone]

To summarize:

Bruce is dirty. Spurs fan love Bruce because he's tough and does the little things to help the Spurs win. Some Spurs fans refuse to accept how dirty Bruce can be and will defend what he does til their faces turn blue. The majority of fans of other teams like to hate on Bruce but would love that type of player on their team. Bruce is not the only dirty player in the NBA.

[polandprzem]

To summarize:

Bruce is dirty. Spurs fan love Bruce because he's tough and does the little things to help the Spurs win. Some Spurs fans refuse to accept how dirty Bruce can be and will defend what he does til their faces turn blue. The majority of fans of other teams like to hate on Bruce but would love that type of player on their team. Bruce is not the only dirty player in the NBA.

Try to write once again

[crc21209]

For all your people who swear he's the dirtiest person on the planet, shut the fuck up, grow up, and watch some fucking chess on tv instead of basketball then. ANY team/player/fan would LOVE to have Bruce Bowen on their team, he's a hard worker and not a crybaby thug like most of the NBA players. He doesnt bitch about not getting the ball, the spotlight, or whatever, he does what is asked of him, and does it the best, thats get in the opponents head and play shutdown D and spot up for a 3 ball here and there. A guy who wasnt even drafted who had to work his way to where hes at, and also a class act with the people in the community. Is Bruce being committed of murder/DUI/rape/assault..etc.? No, so shut up and worry about your own damn team.

[Xylus]

Bruce does play dirty from time to time, doesn't make him a dirty player.

I find it hypocritical that someone started this thread with Raja Bell on their favorite team. At least Bruce hasn't clotheslined someone (yet).
Raja Bell doesn't have a reputation as being a dirty player. He's a skilled flopper, a bulldog of a defender, but he's never been known for trying to hurt players consistently. A single clothesline doesn't make you a dirty player.

[magui86770]

I see this discussion and video has reached True Hoop on espn.com

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-31-43/Watch-Chris-Paul-Fouling-Bruce-Bowen.html?post=true

[Xylus]

Oh, and other than you Laker fans, most of you have to admit that you felt some amount of satisfaction when this happened: :lol

TEG4F84Odtc

[Obstructed_View]

Raja Bell doesn't have a reputation as being a dirty player. He's a skilled flopper, a bulldog of a defender, but he's never been known for trying to hurt players consistently. A single clothesline doesn't make you a dirty player.
A single clothesline (and a neglected-to-mention kick to Andrea Bargnani) doesn't make you a dirty player, but apparently zero suspensions does. :lol

[bobbyjoe]

Crybaby fans act like Bowen does this (http://www.extremesportclips.com/video/1140/Chris-Paul-Punches-Julius-Hodge.html) on a nightly basis.

Bowen never delivers a cheapshot to the balls.

Signed,

Steve Nash

He only tries to injure your knees, ankles, achilles,

Signed,

Rest of the NBA outside of San Antonio.

[Obstructed_View]

Bowen never delivers a cheapshot to the balls.

Signed,

Steve Nash.

So he clears a guy out, gets called for an offensive foul, and that's not good enough for you?


He only tries to injure your knees, ankles, achilles,

Signed,

Rest of the NBA outside of San Antonio.
Then he's frightfully bad at injuring people if he tries so hard to do it. Ginobili, Duncan and even Vince Carter have put people out for longer than Bowen has.

[Spuradicator]

Bowen never delivers a cheapshot to the balls.

Signed,

Steve Nash

He only tries to injure your knees, ankles, achilles,

Signed,

Rest of the NBA outside of San Antonio.


Steve Nash sold it. It was bullshit.

If you want to make excuses for every loss the suns have against the Spurs then you are a pretty sorry fan.

[Spuradicator]

If you want dirty, check this link out.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Y6FOsBjD3ik&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Y6FOsBjD3ik&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[pad300]

Oh my gosh, I just watched the video in slow-motion on our TV - Paul hits Bowen in the nuts twice! We are going to sleep right now, but timvp will clip/upload the slow-motion version when we wake up. It doesn't look like Bowen even kicks him - Paul just flails back.


Hey Kori/TiMVP, have you woken up yet? I think these clips would actually add significantly to the discussion; and it would be nice to see these linked too on Truehoop (this has become a topic their too).

[Kori Ellis]

Hey Kori/TiMVP, have you woken up yet? I think these clips would actually add significantly to the discussion; and it would be nice to see these linked too on Truehoop (this has become a topic their too).

timvp should be able to do it in a little while.

[Holt's Cat]

so are you denying that bruce has a long history of being notoriously dirty?

I don't really care. He plays defense aggressively, you do blow and then drive blitzed. Which one is worth a federal case?

[ClingingMars]

Princess Pimp is a faggot troll who has nothing better to do than continue his or her obsession with the imaginary asterisk. It eats at your soul, doesn't it?

-Mars

[ClingingMars]

Kicking Amare's heel at his dunk, well, that's sending a necessary message for the common good of the good guys called Spurs' team. What else is new?

Gotta love Suns fans making up dirty Bowen plays.

Hard work, NO EXCUSES.


Outside of SA, no one thinks of Bowen as being other than one of the if not THE dirtiest players in the NBA. They all arent ignorant or blind. It's pretty damn obvious.

I live in Virginia.

Eat it, you whiny son of a bitch.

-Mars

[Xylus]

I live in Virginia.

Eat it, you whiny son of a bitch.

-Mars
You are an angry person.

[ClingingMars]

You are an angry person.

awww, boo hoo, I pwned him by proving that there ARE people outside of San Antonio who see Bowen for who he is: a hard working defensive oriented small forward who plays defense like every game is his last.

this incessant bitching of other teams just shows how much SAS is in the heads of other fans.

-Mars

[pad300]

timvp should be able to do it in a little while.

Are you going to do it in this thread, or are you going to start a new one?

[Xylus]

awww, boo hoo, I pwned him by proving that there ARE people outside of San Antonio who see Bowen for who he is: a hard working defensive oriented small forward who plays defense like every game is his last.

this incessant bitching of other teams just shows how much SAS is in the heads of other fans.

-Mars
I'm pretty sure he meant outside of SA fans, rather than outside of San Antonio the city.

[Kori Ellis]

People need to learn how to argue sports without calling each other "faggot" and the like. It's obnoxious.

[Xylus]

People need to learn how to argue sports without calling each other "faggot" and the like. It's obnoxious.
But how else are they going to assert their masculinity?

[RonMexico]

People need to learn how to argue sports without calling each other "faggot" and the like. It's obnoxious.

I don't know very many other words to describe Mav fans.

[samikeyp]

Outside of SA, no one thinks of Bowen as being other than one of the if not THE dirtiest players in the NBA. They all arent ignorant or blind. It's pretty damn obvious.

I live in Lansing Michigan and I don't think that. I think he gets away with a lot of shit that is not within the letter of the rules as do most players. I think he does things than can potentially injure other players as do a lot of other players. I explained in an earlier post why I don't believe he is dirty but I will repost it. Dirty implies premeditation, IMO. I do not think Bowen sits in the locker room before a game and says "Hmm...we have Dallas tonight...I need to go for Dirk's ankles" I don't know that for sure....and no one else on this board does either. I do think he does things in the heat of battle that are dangerous and illegal, again, as a lot of players do. I do not believe he sets out to intentionally injure, again...just an opinion...no one but Bowen knows for sure, no matter what some here post and believe. While there is no accurate stat to record whether a player is dirty or how dirty they are (so you can't accurately know who is #1..you can only speculate and offer an opinion) I would think that some of Bowen's peers would be of the opinion he is dirty. Some, like Kobe, have no problem with him.

[ClingingMars]

I don't know very many other words to describe Mav fans.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

best post by Suns fans I've seen ever.

-Mars

[JamStone]

A single clothesline (and a neglected-to-mention kick to Andrea Bargnani) doesn't make you a dirty player, but apparently zero suspensions does. :lol

Does having zero speeding tickets mean a person never speeds?

[samikeyp]

I'm pretty sure he meant outside of SA fans, rather than outside of San Antonio the city.

I doubt it...he is probably one of those that believes there are no Spurs fans outside SA. :)

If he meant fans though, fair enough. :toast

[ClingingMars]

I doubt it...he is probably one of those that believes there are no Spurs fans outside SA. :)

If he meant fans though, fair enough. :toast

Indeed, but don't worry samikeyp, he'll just claim he meant fans...but we do exist!

-Mars

[samikeyp]

Indeed, but don't worry samikeyp, he'll just claim he meant fans...but we do exist!

-Mars


Cool, to be fair though bobbyjoe is usually pretty knowlegeable about the sport at least based on past posts....despite an avowed hatred for the Spurs. ;)

:smokin

(i keed, i keed)

[RonMexico]

Who is Bruce Bowen? I don't know this kid.

[ClingingMars]

Cool, to be fair though bobbyjoe is usually pretty knowlegeable about the sport at least based on past posts....despite an avowed hatred for the Spurs. ;)

:smokin

(i keed, i keed)

pass that shit you smokin' man

:spin

-Mars

[bobbyjoe]

I live in Lansing Michigan and I don't think that. I think he gets away with a lot of shit that is not within the letter of the rules as do most players. I think he does things than can potentially injure other players as do a lot of other players. I explained in an earlier post why I don't believe he is dirty but I will repost it. Dirty implies premeditation, IMO. I do not think Bowen sits in the locker room before a game and says "Hmm...we have Dallas tonight...I need to go for Dirk's ankles" I don't know that for sure....and no one else on this board does either. I do think he does things in the heat of battle that are dangerous and illegal, again, as a lot of players do. I do not believe he sets out to intentionally injure, again...just an opinion...no one but Bowen knows for sure, no matter what some here post and believe. While there is no accurate stat to record whether a player is dirty or how dirty they are (so you can't accurately know who is #1..you can only speculate and offer an opinion) I would think that some of Bowen's peers would be of the opinion he is dirty. Some, like Kobe, have no problem with him.

I guess Kermit Washington's punch that nearly killed Tomjanovich wasnt' dirty because it wasn't premeditated.

Nor Karl Malone's elbows to Isiah, Nash, or David Robinson. After all, he didnt plan it out beforehand in the locker room.

All you do is lose credibility by arguing the obvious. Arguing Bowen is not dirty is like arguing OJ was innocent. The overwhelming preponderance of evidence to leads to a logical conclusion that he is absolutely dirty and probably the dirtiest player in today's NBA. Unless you just to ignore it out of pure bias, which is obviously the case with some (but definitely not all) Spurs fans.

Deep inside, every fair minded Spurs fan knows Bowen is dirty. Very dirty.

[ClingingMars]

Who is Bruce Bowen? I don't know this kid.

he came from some small college in California, like California State or somethin'...

I think. that came from wikipedia, so you never really know...

-Mars

[bobbyjoe]

Cool, to be fair though bobbyjoe is usually pretty knowlegeable about the sport at least based on past posts....despite an avowed hatred for the Spurs. ;)

:smokin

(i keed, i keed)

I dont hate the Spurs, but I definitely hate Bruce Bowen.

Didnt you hate Karl Malone and John Stockton in the 90's? It's no different...

[ClingingMars]

I guess Kermit Washington's punch that nearly killed Tomjanovich wasnt' dirty because it wasn't premeditated.

Nor Karl Malone's elbows to Isiah, Nash, or David Robinson. After all, he didnt plan it out beforehand in the locker room.

All you do is lose credibility by arguing the obvious. Arguing Bowen is not dirty is like arguing OJ was innocent. The overwhelming preponderance of evidence to leads to a logical conclusion that he is absolutely dirty and probably the dirtiest player in today's NBA. Unless you just to ignore it out of pure bias, which is obviously the case with some (but definitely not all) Spurs fans.

Deep inside, every fair minded Spurs fan knows Bowen is dirty. Very dirty.

just keep on whining please...it's great entertainment.

-Mars

[hater]

deep inside Lakers fans know they are rooting for a rapist.

[E20]

Cal State Fullerton.

[ClingingMars]

Cal State Fullerton.

it was sarcasm ;)

-Mars

[samikeyp]

I guess Kermit Washington's punch that nearly killed Tomjanovich wasnt' dirty because it wasn't premeditated.

Nor Karl Malone's elbows to Isiah, Nash, or David Robinson. After all, he didnt plan it out beforehand in the locker room.

All you do is lose credibility by arguing the obvious. Arguing Bowen is not dirty is like arguing OJ was innocent. The overwhelming preponderance of evidence to leads to a logical conclusion that he is absolutely dirty and probably the dirtiest player in today's NBA. Unless you just to ignore it out of pure bias, which is obviously the case with some (but definitely not all) Spurs fans.

Deep inside, every fair minded Spurs fan knows Bowen is dirty. Very dirty.

Lose credibility to whom? I am just one person on one message board expressing one opinion. It honestly doesn't bother me if people here think I am credible or not. Its not going to keep me from posting. Just because you think Bowen is dirty doesn't make it so, just like if someone says he is not doesn't make it so. Doesn't make either one wrong, just of differing opinions.


Deep inside, every fair minded Spurs fan knows Bowen is dirty. Very dirty

opinion, not fact.

[samikeyp]

I dont hate the Spurs, but I definitely hate Bruce Bowen.

Didnt you hate Karl Malone and John Stockton in the 90's? It's no different...


No I didn't. But I was in the minority because of how I feel about hate. I don't believe it has a place in sport because at the end of the day, at least to me, its just a game and while I enjoy sports and root like hell for my teams, its not the most important thing in my life.

Again, one person's opinion not a suggested course of action.

[Harry Callahan]

A punch to the face is less dirty because Bowen's type of plays recklessly put players ankles and knees in jeopardy. It's not basketball. It's called being a coward.



Ever heard of Kermit Washington? He (as a member of the lakerturds) punched someone in the face and just about KILLED HIM. Remember your former coach Rudy T - that's who he punched? Look it up because it was the most brutal act ever done on a basketball court.

The only good thing I'll say about Princess drama queen Kobe is he understands what Bowen does on the floor and does not cry like others (Gay Allen, the Phoenix Suns, others).

[Allanon]

deep inside Lakers fans know they are rooting for a rapist.

I think deep inside, everybody knows Kobe ISN'T a rapist. We all know he cheated on his wife and likes white girls.

But c'mon, if I was a chick and had a chance to make easy cash by sleeping with Kobe, I'd do it. The girl had spew from SEVERAL other guys she slept with at the same time she went in for an examination.

You don't think she actually went to his room just for an "autograph" do you?

[samikeyp]

I think deep inside, everybody knows Kobe ISN'T a rapist. We all know he cheated on his wife and likes white girls.

But c'mon, if I was a chick and had a chance to make easy cash by sleeping with Kobe, I'd do it. The girl had spew from SEVERAL other guys she slept with at the same time she went in for an examination.

You don't think she actually went to his room just for an "autograph" do you?


Yeah she did....the trouble started when she told Kobe what she wanted autographed! :lol

[hater]

I think deep inside, everybody knows Kobe ISN'T a rapist. We all know he cheated on his wife and likes white girls.

But c'mon, if I was a chick and had a chance to make easy cash by sleeping with Kobe, I'd do it. The girl had spew from SEVERAL other guys she slept with at the same time she went in for an examination.

You don't think she actually went to his room just for an "autograph" do you?

there you go. You really don't think Kobe is a rapist. well, we really don't think Bowen is dirty either. get it?

BTW, I would not bet $ that Kobe is not a rapist. Just like you would not bet $ that Bowen is not dirty. :smokin

[samikeyp]

In some ways, Kobe and Bruce are in the same boat. Both guys could run into a burning building, save a family of 5, three dogs, two cats and an old man in a wheel chair, have a signed letter from God himself saying that they are not what they are accused of being and there would still be some people who call Kobe a rapist and Bruce dirty solely based on the color of their uniforms.

[41times]

The last time the Spurs and Mavs played i Tivo'd the game and went back and watched it twice. I took a sheet of paper out and put a tick mark down for every potential foul on Bowen. Both times i had over 70 tick marks. And that was what i could see from the TV cameras.

He is the dirtiest player in the league and gets away with 90% of it.

[DazedAndConfused]

I love how this thread has turned into a Kobe rapist thread. It's almost like any thread on ST that is over 5 pages long will invariably turn into one of the following:

1.) Kobe vs. Lebron argument
2.) Kobe vs. Jordan argument
3.) Kobe is a rapist

[Kori Ellis]

I love how this thread has turned into a Kobe rapist thread. It's almost like any thread on ST that is over 5 pages long will invariably turn into one of the following:

1.) Kobe vs. Lebron argument
2.) Kobe vs. Jordan argument
3.) Kobe is a rapist
Maybe in the NBA forum, but not usually in the Spurs forum. No one really cares about Kobe that much.

[hater]

The last time the Spurs and Mavs played i Tivo'd the game and went back and watched it twice. I took a sheet of paper out and put a tick mark down for every potential foul on Bowen. Both times i had over 70 tick marks. And that was what i could see from the TV cameras.

He is the dirtiest player in the league and gets away with 90% of it.

I could do the same shit looking at Stackhouse and would end up with 70 tick marks too :rolleyes

[samikeyp]

The last time the Spurs and Mavs played i Tivo'd the game and went back and watched it twice. I took a sheet of paper out and put a tick mark down for every potential foul on Bowen. Both times i had over 70 tick marks. And that was what i could see from the TV cameras.

He is the dirtiest player in the league and gets away with 90% of it.


and of course you were totally unbiased. :lol

[Brutalis]

I wonder why this princess slut hasn't been booted yet, when in the past much smaller trolls were.

[Kori Ellis]

The last time the Spurs and Mavs played i Tivo'd the game and went back and watched it twice. I took a sheet of paper out and put a tick mark down for every potential foul on Bowen. Both times i had over 70 tick marks. And that was what i could see from the TV cameras.

He is the dirtiest player in the league and gets away with 90% of it.

What's funny is that you can do that with any player that plays hard on D.

I don't doubt that Bowen is sneaky/crafty/dirty sometimes. I also don't think his intent is to injure players.

But what's funny is that everyone keeps bringing up how he "gets away" with it. Why do you think that is? Is he such a big name with great marketability that the league protects him? :lol Is it a conspiracy to keep the small market Spurs winning? :lol It just doesn't make sense.

As a Spur, Bowen has never been suspended. He's never been ejected. But all the opponents' fans think he's the "dirtiest player in the league." That doesn't make sense either. He doesn't even average very many fouls.

He crowds players. He works them. He gets under their skin. They get frustrated. There's oftentimes contact. But he's not going out every game punching and kicking like some people make it out to be.

Last night, he was probably wrong to react to Paul hitting him the nuts. But hey, if I was a guy and got hit in the nuts twice in a matter of seconds ... I'd probably react too.

[Kori Ellis]

I wonder why this princess slut hasn't been booted yet, when in the past much smaller trolls were.

Been booted over and over and over under various screen names and IPs. If someone is that freakin' desperate to post at SpursTalk, then hey, maybe we should let them. Maybe this is all the life they have.

[Findog]

and of course you were totally unbiased. :lol


That's not biased, that's being realistic. Bowen is a dirty player. There's no great debate here.

[samikeyp]

That's not biased, that's being realistic. Bowen is a dirty player. There's no great debate here.


I was referring to the 70 tics. :)

[hater]

Maybe this is all the life they have.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Findog]

I was referring to the 70 tics. :)

Well, that may be a bit of hyperbole, but other than that, it amazes me that some Spurs fans will deny it.

[Brutalis]

Been booted over and over and over under various screen names and IPs. If someone is that freakin' desperate to post at SpursTalk, then hey, maybe we should let them. Maybe this is all the life they have.
You should tag them, sort of like the Spur under names. That way people know when they're talking to a troll so they don't waste their time thinking it's an actual discussion.

:hungry: I want my own troll to feast on :hungry:

[samikeyp]

Well, that may be a bit of hyperbole, but other than that, it amazes me that some Spurs fans will deny it.

To each there own.

I think that is the biggest problem a lot (not all) of fans have. They seem to think that because they think a certain way, everybody else has to think the same way or they are wrong. As I said earlier, there are some Spurs fans who could watch Bowen stab someone in the eye and they would still call it clean. I don't agree with that and I do think Bowen, like most NBA players, does a lot of stuff that is technically not within the rules and sees how far he can go. But if someone wants to think Bruce is clean, that is their right, doesn't mean I have to agree but it also doesn't mean I have the right to judge them because we don't agree.

[samikeyp]

You should tag them, sort of like the Spur under names. That way people know when they're talking to a troll so they don't waste their time thinking it's an actual discussion.

:hungry: I want my own troll to feast on :hungry:


Feed Brut the Trolls! :hungry:


:lol

[Brutalis]

Feed Brut the Trolls! :hungry:


:lol
http://enigma.dune.net/~eric/Do-not-feed-the-troll.PNG

I'm posting that on every pee princess thread I see, if I can catch them fast enough. See if Spur fans can limit themselves.

[samikeyp]

I'm posting that on every pee princess thread I see, if I can catch them fast enough. See if Spur fans can limit themselves.


I don't know dude....the way we have beaten this dead horse...not much hope! :lol

[rAm]

Any videos of the alternate angle yet?

[samikeyp]

Any videos of the alternate angle yet?

Back, and to the left.
Back, and to the left.

Back...and to the left.

:)

[RonMexico]

What's funny is that you can do that with any player that plays hard on D.

I don't doubt that Bowen is sneaky/crafty/dirty sometimes. I also don't think his intent is to injure players.

But what's funny is that everyone keeps bringing up how he "gets away" with it. Why do you think that is? Is he such a big name with great marketability that the league protects him? :lol Is it a conspiracy to keep the small market Spurs winning? :lol It just doesn't make sense.

As a Spur, Bowen has never been suspended. He's never been ejected. But all the opponents' fans think he's the "dirtiest player in the league." That doesn't make sense either. He doesn't even average very many fouls.

He crowds players. He works them. He gets under their skin. They get frustrated. There's oftentimes contact. But he's not going out every game punching and kicking like some people make it out to be.

Last night, he was probably wrong to react to Paul hitting him the nuts. But hey, if I was a guy and got hit in the nuts twice in a matter of seconds ... I'd probably react too.

Basically Bruce Bowen is Ron Artest, but he hasn't abused dogs, run into the stands after a fan, demanded a trade, or beat his wife.

It seems like in the NBA unless you are a high profile star (i.e. Kobe "following through on his shot") or a high profile nutcase (i.e. SJax, Artest, David Harrison, pretty much everyone who has worn a Pacer uniform), then you don't get suspended for (relatively) minor on-the-court activity.

I mean, compare Artest elbowing Manu 2 years ago to Raja Bell clotheslining Kobe and tell me those both deserved a 1 game suspension? Bell's would probably have been at least 2 in the regular season. Also, thanks to Bell's move on Kobe, he was a target for Stu and Co. so he got a 1-gamer for hitting Bargnani in the nuts last year (a play that I didn't even see in real time during the game... and one the broadcast team in Toronto didn't replay).

Now if Bowen finally gets convicted of shooting Julius Hodge 3 years ago...

[koriwhat]

The last time the Spurs and Mavs played i Tivo'd the game and went back and watched it twice. I took a sheet of paper out and put a tick mark down for every potential foul on Bowen. Both times i had over 70 tick marks. And that was what i could see from the TV cameras.

He is the dirtiest player in the league and gets away with 90% of it.


you sir have no life outside of your 4 walls.

who the fuck does this kind of bs? i mean really....?

"i am going to mark down every foul that bowen may have committed in this game and then try and shove the results in the spurs fans faces on a spurs forum"

you are a loser and i think we can all attest to that more so then we can to the validity of bowen being a dirty player.

i love the fact that you are jotting down what could possibly be considered a foul here and there when you have no credentials to do so in the first place. then you act like we should care what some douche has to say who watches the same game in front of his tv and not from the court wearing a zebra shirt.

[koriwhat]

Been booted over and over and over under various screen names and IPs. If someone is that freakin' desperate to post at SpursTalk, then hey, maybe we should let them. Maybe this is all the life they have.

why you gotta cut on me so much kori? hahahaha.... :p:

i just can't get enough ST!

[koriwhat]

It is no coincidence that these "accidents" with Bowen somehow always involve the guy who is going off on the Spurs. He somehow never accidentally kicks or steps under a guy who is sucking that night.

as stated before... bowen defends the oppositions best not their shittiest player. MESSAGE!

[timvp]

hZNwSC_6H90

Paul gets in a couple "Hodges" and then does a Steve Nash flop to top it off.

[Kori Ellis]

Watch the slow-motion part.

[Findog]

hZNwSC_6H90

Paul gets in a couple "Hodges" and then does a Steve Nash flop to top it off.

Suspend them both then.

[koriwhat]

doesnt even look like bowen did anything except try to get the ball and then get out of the way. thanks for the vid timvp/kori.

[Spuradicator]

I love how this thread has turned into a Kobe rapist thread. It's almost like any thread on ST that is over 5 pages long will invariably turn into one of the following:

1.) Kobe vs. Lebron argument
2.) Kobe vs. Jordan argument
3.) Kobe is a rapist

Fuck it, lets go all the way then since you brought it up.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/obedg/kobe_raped.jpg

[Kori Ellis]

doesnt even look like bowen did anything except try to get the ball and then get out of the way. thanks for the vid timvp/kori.

Exactly. Bowen does stuff wrong on occasion, but when you watch it slowed down, I'm not sure he even did anything here. But Paul definitely hits him the groin.

[koriwhat]

that avatar is freaking awesome! who made that for you?

[Spuradicator]

:lol I like how paul just throws himself back on the ground at the end. Reminded me of how Nash sold the Horry hip check.

All I see is two guys playing hard. Paul being sneaky trying to hit Bowens nuts :lol

Anyone who claims this as "another" Bowen cheap shot is not being objective and just hates the Spurs.

[myhc]

for those who haven't seen the aforementioned paul punching julius hodges' balls in college, here's the link. chris paul has picked up some bad habits it seems. :rolleyes

http://www.extremesportclips.com/video/1140/Chris-Paul-Punches-Julius-Hodge.html

[PM5K]

OH MY GOD.

The two videos are so totally different you'd almost believe TIMVP did some kind of CIA POP editing.

Crazy shit...

[Kori Ellis]

OH MY GOD.

The two videos are so totally different you'd almost believe TIMVP did some kind of CIA POP editing.

Crazy shit...

What a difference the angle makes. Live, I thought he hit him in the nuts but the slow motion, there's no doubt. I posted a link to the video on ESPN True Hoop because they have been hanging Bowen there all day.

[Kori Ellis]

that avatar is freaking awesome! who made that for you?

My avatar? I think Pistons<Spurs made it. It is in the spork thread. I just changed the date to 2008.

[PM5K]

What a difference the angle makes. Live, I thought he hit him in the nuts but the slow motion, there's no doubt. I posted a link to the video on ESPN Full Hoop because they have been hanging Bowen there all day.

Yeah, Chris Paul, intentional or not, totally sold Bowen kicking him from the first angle, even the announcer bought it.

[koriwhat]

My avatar? I think Pistons<Spurs made it. It is in the spork thread. I just changed the date to 2008.

yeah that shit is funny.

[cornbread]

The last time the Spurs and Mavs played i Tivo'd the game and went back and watched it twice. I took a sheet of paper out and put a tick mark down for every potential foul on Bowen. Both times i had over 70 tick marks. And that was what i could see from the TV cameras.

:dramaquee

[RonMexico]

All that video shows me is that Bowen shouldn't wear nuts next game.

[sa_kid20]

Wow no Bowen haters since the other angle was posted.

[Kamnik]

hZNwSC_6H90

Paul gets in a couple "Hodges" and then does a Steve Nash flop to top it off.

Ok CP just lost some respect in my eyes...

You dont go hitting a guy in the nuts.

I dont get what he is thinking, cameras everywhere today...

[RonMexico]

Wow no Bowen haters since the other angle was posted.

I still hate him for other reasons.

He still pulled the "kick him while he's down, then pull my hands back" move.

Even though nothing CP3 did is justified. That is all.

[Obstructed_View]

Does having zero speeding tickets mean a person never speeds?
That's not the question. If the cops set up a speed trap to watch you because all your neighbors have been complaining about your driving for 12 years, having zero speeding tickets is fairly convincing evidence when someone accuses you of being the worst speeder in the history of traffic.

[Obstructed_View]

Basically Bruce Bowen is Ron Artest, but he hasn't abused dogs, run into the stands after a fan, demanded a trade, or beat his wife.
And he's never been suspended.


It seems like in the NBA unless you are a high profile star (i.e. Kobe "following through on his shot") or a high profile nutcase (i.e. SJax, Artest, David Harrison, pretty much everyone who has worn a Pacer uniform), then you don't get suspended for (relatively) minor on-the-court activity.
You've figured it out. The NBA wants to unfairly suspend its biggest stars who draw fans to every city they play in, and they do this so they can protect a guy who scores 4 points per game in the league's smallest market.


I mean, compare Artest elbowing Manu 2 years ago...
and Tim Duncan, and Tony Parker. All in the same game, a game in which he was hit in the mouth on the first play of the game. If Manu had hit anyone else in that game he'd have gotten a suspension.


to Raja Bell clotheslining Kobe and tell me those both deserved a 1 game suspension? Bell's would probably have been at least 2 in the regular season. Also, thanks to Bell's move on Kobe, he was a target for Stu and Co. so he got a 1-gamer for hitting Bargnani in the nuts last year (a play that I didn't even see in real time during the game... and one the broadcast team in Toronto didn't replay).
So the league was watching Raja which is why they dropped the hammer on him for kicking Bargnani, but they've never suspended Bowen even though they've been watching him for 12 years. Hell, even the one time the League called Bowen and gave him a warning his coach came to his defense and they ran away with their tail between their legs.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Bowen did nothing wrong, over acting by CP3, plus he grabbed onto Bowen

[RonMexico]

You've figured it out. The NBA wants to unfairly suspend its biggest stars who draw fans to every city they play in, and they do this so they can protect a guy who scores 4 points per game in the league's smallest market.

I'm not saying Stu Jackson is intelligent at all when it comes to describing Kobe's actions as "unnatural" and suspending him from a game in Madison Square Garden.

Also, what Bell did to Bargnani isn't much different than when Bowen kneed Nash in the groin... except Bowen had the ball. Bell didn't even get called for a foul on the play. Bowen kneeing Ray Allen in the back was a worse play (I'm going to assume you never saw the Bell play because then you wouldn't speak like that)

It's a lot easier for the league to suspend an on-and-off court multiple offender (Artest) in the playoffs for intentional plays, or suspend players based on the "letter of the law" (Diaw and Stoudemire), than it is to interpret a knee to the groin by Bowen.

You think they would have suspended Kobe for his move on Manu if it happened in the playoffs? I highly doubt it - the uproar from Zen Master would have make the Earth rattle. I think a similar uproar from Pop would have occurred if they dropped the hammer on Bowen, since Pop already did complain once during the regular season, causing the league to cower like one of Artest's dogs.

[Obstructed_View]

Suspend them both then.
That's as close as you're ever likely to get to an admission that Bowen was retaliating. I'm fine with suspending both of them because at least it gets out that Bowen got punched BEFORE he did anything wrong. Bowen should know better than to retaliate, because he's never going to get cut any slack. Every bad-attitude loser that has to face him uses the "hold and grab" line, despite Bowen almost never being in foul trouble. Their fans continue to buy it and perpetuate it, so it persists.

[RonMexico]

despite Bowen almost never being in foul trouble. Their fans continue to buy it and perpetuate it, so it persists.

Remember, these are the same officials that let Amare Stoudemire and Shaquille O'Neal stay on the court with 5 fouls each.

Even though the Suns won, I won't support the judgment of officiating crews.

[ClingingMars]

That's not biased, that's being realistic. Bowen is a dirty player. There's no great debate here.

obviously THERE IS A FUCKING DEBATE BECAUSE THERE'S 9 PAGES ABOUT IT.

gotta love people who are so obsessed that just want to end it in their favor.

-Mars

[Obstructed_View]

I'm not saying Stu Jackson is intelligent at all when it comes to describing Kobe's actions as "unnatural" and suspending him from a game in Madison Square Garden.
But Kobe hit two different guys in the face flailing in an attempt to draw a foul. He deserved the suspensions. He should have been suspended for hitting Korver as well but the league was afraid of the reaction from the Kobe fans and probably didn't want to have to lose that much more ticket revenue.


Also, what Bell did to Bargnani isn't much different than when Bowen kneed Nash in the groin... except Bowen had the ball. Bell didn't even get called for a foul on the play. Bowen kneeing Ray Allen in the back was a worse play (I'm going to assume you never saw the Bell play because then you wouldn't speak like that)
Since Bowen had the ball, he was clearing out. It happens all the time in basketball, but the defender doesn't usually fall down and roll around for two minutes. Bowen was incorrectly called for an offensive foul. I'm not sure how that calls for a suspension. I guess since Bowen never clotheslined anyone in his career, the league overlooked it. I guess if Bowen were actually a DIRTY player he'd have gotten rung up for it. If Raja Bell did the same move to someone and did NOT have the ball, I don't see how anyone could try to defend the action with a straight face.

And unless you are referring to something else, Bowen didn't knee Allen in the back, he kicked him with his foot while they were both on the floor.


It's a lot easier for the league to suspend an on-and-off court multiple offender (Artest) in the playoffs for intentional plays, or suspend players based on the "letter of the law" (Diaw and Stoudemire), than it is to interpret a knee to the groin by Bowen.
Since it was called an offensive foul, rather than what it was, a pathetic flop by a player that showed a pattern of getting himself hurt playing defense, Suns fans should probably just be happy with the turnover.


You think they would have suspended Kobe for his move on Manu if it happened in the playoffs? I highly doubt it - the uproar from Zen Master would have make the Earth rattle. I think a similar uproar from Pop would have occurred if they dropped the hammer on Bowen, since Pop already did complain once during the regular season, causing the league to cower like one of Artest's dogs.
Frankly, I'm surprised they suspended Kobe at all. The shot on Manu looked inadvertent to me. Once he hit Giricek on the exact same type of play it no longer passed the smell test. When they gave him a pass the next game for elbowing Korver in what I thought was an intentional hit, I figured they just gave up.

That said, your attempts to equate Bowen's value with Kobe's is downright laughable.

[JamStone]

That's not the question. If the cops set up a speed trap to watch you because all your neighbors have been complaining about your driving for 12 years, having zero speeding tickets is fairly convincing evidence when someone accuses you of being the worst speeder in the history of traffic.


And, if you knew where the speed traps were or had a good idea where to watch out for speed traps, you could still avoid getting speeding tickets.

My comparison is right to the point of what you've argued.

You've been implying that Bowen can't be as dirty as players that have actually been caught and suspended for being dirty.

Problem is that Bowen has worked hard to perfect a way where the dirty things that he does are hard to catch. And, he's built a reputation as a defender where officials and even the NBA gives him the benefit of the doubt. I mean, how did he not get suspended for kicking Ray Allen in the back? The majority of players in the league would have been. He's kicked a player in the face not once, but at least two times that I've seen documented. It's multiple players in the league that claim he slides his foot under their feet on jumpers. And, video evidence supports it. Suspensions are not the only gauge of whether a player is dirty or not. Suspensions aren't even a main or primary factor in determining whether a player is dirty or not.

[Obstructed_View]

Remember, these are the same officials that let Amare Stoudemire and Shaquille O'Neal stay on the court with 5 fouls each.

Even though the Suns won, I won't support the judgment of officiating crews.
So because of your example of a questionable few minutes by one officiating crew, that means that Bowen's years of not being in foul trouble, despite his reputation as a dirty player, is because of bad officiating?

[Agloco]

Is he the dirtiest player in the NBA or what??

I know the frustration of watching your team lose by 25 points and Popovich throwing the white flag with plenty of time in the game (4, 5 minutes left in the game) are signs of losers, these things sometimes make you do some horrible things but this has to be one of the most pathetic displays in the history of the NBA:

w8WXVJQ06Sk


Being a Phoenix fan you should plenty of experience with this. Thanks for coming in to render your expert opinion on how to lose graciously. Well said.

[btimsah]

I'm sure a San Antonio fan will see nothing wrong with this, because compared to Bowen's past dirty deed's it is rather weak.

Here's a good compilation of Bowen, and how he represents San Antonio;

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[JamStone]

hZNwSC_6H90

Paul gets in a couple "Hodges" and then does a Steve Nash flop to top it off.


Sorry, even at that angle, it doesn't seem clear at all. First, I only saw one time that Paul actually hit him in between the legs. And, that one time, the basketball was still right there by Paul's hand as he was trying to gain possession of it. Not saying Paul didn't do it on purpose, but in that scrum for the basketball, there's at least an argument that he was just trying to get the basketball. I didn't see any other "Hodge" in the video.

I'm being as objective as possible. I like both players. I have no rooted interest in either team or defending either player. Paul probably hit him there on purpose, and he would be wrong for it. But, it's not clear as some of you are making it. Bowen's attempt to knee Paul, even if it didn't connect, can't be construed any other way but intentionally trying to knee him.

[ClingingMars]

Remember, these are the same officials that let Amare Stoudemire and Shaquille O'Neal stay on the court with 5 fouls each.

Even though the Suns won, I won't support the judgment of officiating crews.

No but if it his play was EXTREMELY bad, with his "reputation", don't you think he would AT LEAST foul out occasionally? i need to find his average fouls per game, pretty sure it's very low.

-Mars

[Kori Ellis]

Sorry, even at that angle, it doesn't seem clear at all.

40 second mark
46 second mark - very very clear

Pretty damn clear and this isn't even high-def.

I don't even see Bowen trying to "knee" Paul in his head. I just seeing him pulling his leg away and Paul flopping back.

[Obstructed_View]

And, if you knew where the speed traps were or had a good idea where to watch out for speed traps, you could still avoid getting speeding tickets.

The league has every minute of Bowen's court time on video. Are you saying Bowen does all these things when the cameras aren't on him? If he's that good at avoiding evidence of his nefarious intent, then he's superhuman.


You've been implying that Bowen can't be as dirty as players that have actually been caught and suspended for being dirty.

Problem is that Bowen has worked hard to perfect a way where the dirty things that he does are hard to catch.
Again, if all these things he does are on video, how is it that nobody catches him?

And do you happen to have some evidence of him working hard to perfect a way to do dirty things and get away with it? I presume you wouldn't declare something so damning without absolute evidence to support it. Until you do, I suggest that your opinions are clouding your judgment.


And, he's built a reputation as a defender where officials and even the NBA gives him the benefit of the doubt.
But I thought he'd built a reputation as one of the dirtiest players in the league, and it's common knowledge that he intentionally slides his feet under defenders in an attempt to cause them serious injury. Why would the NBA give him benefit of the doubt? I don't know either, but keep throwing it out there; perhaps nobody else will question your logic.


I mean, how did he not get suspended for kicking Ray Allen in the back? The majority of players in the league would have been. He retaliated to Allen jumping into him, everybody on the floor knew that's what he did, and it wasn't much of a kick. It was stupid, and he got fined for it, but you need to watch the play and then attempt to come in here and suggest with any conviction that Bowen was trying to hurt Allen. Implying that the league is somehow overlooking the rules of the game for Bowen's benefitis completely ludicrous.


He's kicked a player in the face not once, but at least two times that I've seen documented. It's multiple players in the league that claim he slides his foot under their feet on jumpers. And, video evidence supports it. Suspensions are not the only gauge of whether a player is dirty or not. Suspensions aren't even a main or primary factor in determining whether a player is dirty or not.
So everybody says he does it, but the league has yet to do anything about it. They make a new rule and a point of emphasis for sliding your feet under shooters, but he's never been called for it. He intentionally sets out to injure players, but he's never really injured anybody. Suspensions aren't the gaugue of whether he's dirty because he's never been suspended. Fouls aren't the gauge of whether he's dirty because he doesn't get in foul trouble. He does all these terrible things but he's so good at doing them that you can't even see them on videotape.

Are you listening to yourself? Really?

[Obstructed_View]

Sorry, even at that angle, it doesn't seem clear at all. First, I only saw one time that Paul actually hit him in between the legs. And, that one time, the basketball was still right there by Paul's hand as he was trying to gain possession of it. Not saying Paul didn't do it on purpose, but in that scrum for the basketball, there's at least an argument that he was just trying to get the basketball. I didn't see any other "Hodge" in the video.

I'm being as objective as possible. I like both players. I have no rooted interest in either team or defending either player. Paul probably hit him there on purpose, and he would be wrong for it. But, it's not clear as some of you are making it. Bowen's attempt to knee Paul, even if it didn't connect, can't be construed any other way but intentionally trying to knee him.

:lmao

[Obstructed_View]

I still hate him for other reasons.

He still pulled the "kick him while he's down, then pull my hands back" move.

Even though nothing CP3 did is justified. That is all.
I find it interesting that Bowen had his hands up, which usually means he knows he did something, and Paul had his hands clasped behind his back, which is typically a sign of guilt.

[koriwhat]

Problem is that Bowen has worked hard to perfect a way where the dirty things that he does are hard to catch.

so where's all the suspensions and such before he perfected this so called dirty style you speak of?

[JamStone]

The league has every minute of Bowen's court time on video. Are you saying Bowen does all these things when the cameras aren't on him? If he's that good at avoiding evidence of his nefarious intent, then he's superhuman.

Again, if all these things he does are on video, how is it that nobody catches him?

No, they have the dirty things he does on video. Which is why it's hard to believe why he hasn't been suspended several times already. Bruce always has his hands up in the air with an innocent expression to his face any time he does anything.



And do you happen to have some evidence of him working hard to perfect a way to do dirty things and get away with it? I presume you wouldn't declare something so damning without absolute evidence to support it. Until you do, I suggest that your opinions are clouding your judgment.

No, not really. But, I personally haven't seen any videotapes of Tim Duncan working on his free throws, but I assume he does. I assume players work on their game. One aspect of Bruce's game is to be physical on defense and get away with what he can get away with. Keeping his hands up and showing his palms is one thing, he even mentioned in that NBA commercial a couple years ago, that he does to try to show referees that he's not clutching and grabbing or doing other anything else dirty. My opinion is that Bruce Bowen is a very smart and physical defender that uses every advantage he can that he can get away with. Do you disagree with any of that?



But I thought he'd built a reputation as one of the dirtiest players in the league, and it's common knowledge that he intentionally slides his feet under defenders in an attempt to cause them serious injury. Why would the NBA give him benefit of the doubt? I don't know either, but keep throwing it out there; perhaps nobody else will question your logic.

Do you not understand the difference between players, officials, and the NBA? His reputation among "players" is that he's one of the dirtiest players in the league. His reputation among "officials" and the "NBA" is that he's a great defender that apparently gets the benefit of the doubt. I don't know why that is because of all the complaints against him. But, that's what it appears to be with the NBA.



He retaliated to Allen jumping into him, everybody on the floor knew that's what he did, and it wasn't much of a kick. It was stupid, and he got fined for it, but you need to watch the play and then attempt to come in here and suggest with any conviction that Bowen was trying to hurt Allen. Implying that the league is somehow overlooking the rules of the game for Bowen's benefitis completely ludicrous.

First of all, jump shooters do that all the time. It by no means excuses or justifies Bowen kicking Allen in his back. And, I didn't say he was trying to hurt Allen. I do believe he should have gotten suspended for that though.



So everybody says he does it, but the league has yet to do anything about it. They make a new rule and a point of emphasis for sliding your feet under shooters, but he's never been called for it. He intentionally sets out to injure players, but he's never really injured anybody. Suspensions aren't the gaugue of whether he's dirty because he's never been suspended. Fouls aren't the gauge of whether he's dirty because he doesn't get in foul trouble. He does all these terrible things but he's so good at doing them that you can't even see them on videotape.

Hard to explain, isn't it?



Are you listening to yourself? Really?

I read what I wrote. Your stance is as incredulous to me as mine is to you.

[JamStone]

:lmao


I have no rooting interest in either player or either team.

I gave my objective opinion.

Would appear to me that your opinion of my opinion is based on your own bias.

[JamStone]

40 second mark
46 second mark - very very clear

Pretty damn clear and this isn't even high-def.

I don't even see Bowen trying to "knee" Paul in his head. I just seeing him pulling his leg away and Paul flopping back.

40 second mark... not very clear at all, especially if contact was supposed to be made while David West was blocking the view.

46 mark... clear that he hit him. I mentioned that already. Not clear that it was intentional as the basketball was right there as he was trying to grab and gain possession of it. I did say Paul probably did do it on purpose, but it's arguable that he did not and was just scrambling for the basketball.

As for Bowen's knee. He wasn't "pulling" his leg away. You don't kick your knee up and towards something if you're "pulling it away." It definitely looks like Paul flopped and there was no contact. That doesn't refute the idea of what Bowen was trying to do.

[Obstructed_View]

No, they have the dirty things he does on video. Which is why it's hard to believe why he hasn't been suspended several times already. Bruce always has his hands up in the air with an innocent expression to his face any time he does anything.
Yet he has never been suspended. I guess because standing with your hands in the air and an innocent expression on your face isn't a rule violation.


No, not really.
Yeah, that's what I thought.


My opinion is that Bruce Bowen is a very smart and physical defender that uses every advantage he can that he can get away with. Do you disagree with any of that?
No, that's my opinion completely. It does, however, fly in the face of your earlier claims that he's spent countless hours working on ways to perfect getting away with dirty play so that even people looking for it on videotape can't see it, or that he intentionally slides his feet under jump shooters.


First of all, jump shooters do that all the time.
But jump shooters land on defenders' feet all the time, but that's not important to you for the purposes of this discussion, nor is the fact that Ray Allen throws more elbows and punches at Bowen than he's ever gotten. To use your words, "It by no means excuses or justifies Bowen kicking Allen in his back." Was it stupid? Yep. Do I understand why Bowen finally got frustrated? Yep.

Out of curiosity, why do Ray Allen and Chris Paul get endless benefit of the doubt from you, despite their reputations, but Bowen doesn't get any because of his?


Hard to explain, isn't it?

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Kriz-Maxima]

I didnt see a knee nor a kick. I saw two players trying to gain posesion of the ball and the legs of one getting tangled.

[Findog]

To summarize:

Bruce is dirty. Spurs fan love Bruce because he's tough and does the little things to help the Spurs win. Some Spurs fans refuse to accept how dirty Bruce can be and will defend what he does til their faces turn blue. The majority of fans of other teams like to hate on Bruce but would love that type of player on their team. Bruce is not the only dirty player in the NBA.

We have a winner here. Why is this thread still going on? This pretty much sums it up.