Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Hornets Mar. 12

[timvp]

That one wasn’t fun to watch. It probably was less fun to play – for the Spurs at least. The New Orleans Hornets demolished the Spurs 100-75 and looked like the superior team. The Spurs kept it close for part of the game but the Hornets thoroughly dominated the second half and danced their way to victory.

Hopefully the Spurs can avoid the Hornets in the playoffs. Besides being a damn good team, New Orleans is just a horrible matchup for San Antonio. They’re like a better version of the 2006 Dallas Mavericks. Paul is playing as well as any point guard has played in the last 20 years. David West is starting to turn into a Dirk Nowtizki-level problem for the Spurs. Tyson Chandler has the exact attributes that bother Duncan (long, athletic and active). Peja Stojakovic is deadly against any Spurs defender not named Bruce. And I won't even talk about notorious Spurs killer Bonzi Wells.

While the offense for the Spurs was ugly on Wednesday night, it was their defense which let the team down the most. The Hornets shot a blistering 58.7% from the field, as they got any shot they wanted all night long. It was like an open bar on Bourbon Street – with the Spurs footing the bill, of course. Paul orchestrated the offense beautifully and the Spurs had to basically rely on luck for the Hornets not to score on every trip up the court.

As a team, the Spurs shot 42.9% from the field. However, take out the production from the Big Three and that number plummets to 22.9%. As a team, the Spurs were 2-of-18 from beyond the three-point line. Subtract Tony Parker’s shooting and the team was 0-for-15 from downtown. You know it’s a poor all-around game when those numbers look so pathetic yet weren’t actually the worst part of the game for the Spurs.

Overall, it’s tough to say much other than the Hornets are the better team at this point in the season. New Orleans has now handed San Antonio its two worst losses of the season. The Spurs aren’t playing anything close to championship level basketball at this point and with games against the three hottest teams in the Eastern Conference coming up on their schedule, it could get uglier before the Spurs are able to regroup.

-Offensively, I thought Tim Duncan played very well. The Hornets were focusing in on him yet Duncan responded with impressive shot after impressive shot. He finished with 24 points, 11 rebounds, three assists and no turnovers, while connecting on 10-of-16 shots from the field. Defensively, his pick-and-roll defense was atrocious. Paul abused his fellow Wake Forest product repeatedly and Duncan was often left out of place. Duncan’s individual defense actually wasn’t that bad but it was overshadowed by his pitiful showing in the pick-and-rolls. The positive you can take away for Duncan is that he played as well offensively as he has since the game against the Mavericks a couple weeks ago.

-Manu Ginobili is running on fumes at this point. He has short spurts of energy but overall it’s obvious that he just doesn’t have the legs right now. All those minutes from the last month are now coming back to haunt. Ginobili asked out of the game early in the fourth quarter, which is a rather scary sign for Spurs fans. Being the competitor that Ginobili is, he wouldn’t ask out of a game unless he just physically couldn’t play any longer. Needless to say, hopefully Ginobili can refuel at some point over the next five weeks before the playoffs start. While he was on the court against the Hornets, Ginobili was decent. He finished with 11 points, four assists, three rebounds and three steals in 31 minutes. Ginobili didn’t get the ball as much as usual but then again, he didn’t appear to have the gas to do much more than he did. Defensively is where his lack of energy showed up the most as Ginobili wasn’t nearly as active as he usually is on that end of the court.

-The Hornets were daring Tony Parker to carry the Spurs offensively and Parker did a decent job of doing just that. He competed offensively and along with Duncan helped keep the Spurs in the game by scoring early and often. Parker finished with 24 points, four assists and one turnover, while shooting 10-for-16 from the field and 2-for-3 from beyond the arc. Parker looked healthy for the most part, which is one of the few positives to take out of this game. His free throw shooting (2-for-8) was simply embarrassing. Defensively, while it was part of the game plan to force Paul to shoot, Parker played very softly. He displayed absolutely no fire or urgency – even with Paul destroying the Spurs almost every trip up the court.

-Bruce Bowen’s offense was a big part of the problem for the Spurs in terms of scoring the ball. The Hornets weren’t paying much attention to him and Bowen responded by knocking down only one of his five field goal attempts. The Spurs needed Bowen to knock down a few more of those shots to help space the court. Defensively, Bowen was the only Spur who showed up tonight. He defended Stojakovic a majority of the game and Stojakovic failed to even score a point with Bowen guarding him. However, it was Bowen’s defense against Paul that was probably the highlight of the game for the Spurs. Bowen harassed Paul and infuriated the third-year point guard repeatedly. Bowen single-handedly showed more fight defensively than the rest of the team combined. Bowen on Paul is a strategy that Pop will have to use if the Spurs and Hornets do meet in the playoffs.

-Kurt Thomas had a few good defensive possessions against West but West ended up getting the upper hand by the end of the night. Thomas was saddled with foul trouble for much of the game and overall he had a sub par performance. In 22 minutes, Thomas had two points, five rebounds and three turnovers, while hitting 1-of-3 shots from the field. This was the first game in which Thomas was matched up against a perimeter oriented bigman and the results are mostly mixed. West adjusted well and by the end of the night seemed to have figured out Thomas.

-Robert Horry led the bench in minutes played with 18. He didn’t have a good game at all but comparatively speaking, Horry was in the same boat heading down the same river as virtually everyone else on the team. He had four points, one rebound, three steals and no paddles, while going 2-for-6 from the field. A couple weeks ago, it appeared that Horry had begun to find his rhythm. That rhythm is once again eluding him.

-As the season has gotten more serious, I’m losing confidence in Ime Udoka more and more by the game. The thing I’m most disappointed with is his tendency to lose composure. When things start to go bad, Udoka has recently made things spiral out of control. He’ll force a shot or turn the ball over at the most inopportune times. It’s likely due to Udoka still learning the ins and outs of Spurs Basketball but he really needs to improve in this area for the Spurs to be able to trust him in the playoffs. On the night, Udoka had two points and a steal in 17 minutes of action.

-Michael Finley began the night by hitting his first attempt from the field. It was down hill from there. Finley missed his final five field goal attempts and had another very poor game. His offense is bad. His defense is worse. Not that long ago, Finley was playing well and supplying consistent scoring on a nightly basis. Now he’s hurting the team much more than he’s helping. Somewhere Mark Cuban is happily writing a check.

-As bad as everyone else was, Fabricio Oberto might have been the worst of the bunch. His effort defensively was an abomination. He turned Melvin Ely into Wilt Chamberlain with cornrows the few times he tried to defend him. Oberto against West? Ha. I can live with players hitting tough shots but Oberto let his man go wherever they wanted. I’ve seen traffic cones give more effort than Oberto gave tonight.

-Daque Vaudamire again played backup point guard tonight. Pop may want to play Jamon Staughn a bit more because Daque Vaudamire sucked.

-Pop deserves a good portion of the blame tonight. The Spurs beat the Hornets the last time the two teams played because they surprised the Hornets with a gimmick defense that forced Paul to look to shoot more than he usually does. Pop trotted out the same gimmick defense to begin the game as if Paul hadn’t spent the whole day focused on how to shove that look down the Spurs throats.

With Paul and the Hornets, you have to keep them guessing or else your defense will be demolished. If I were Pop, I would have started off with regular defensive sets and then save any gimmicks for later in the game. Maybe throw a few zones early at the Hornets to keep them off balance. The Spurs played predictably and the Hornets were ready to make the Spurs pay.

Pop also deserves blame for Ginobili running out of gas. If Ginobili isn’t able to find his energy before the playoffs begin, the downfall of the 2007-08 Spurs will be traced back to when Pop foolishly overworked Ginobili in the middle of the season.

Offensively, there wasn’t much Pop could have done. Pop had a pretty good jumper in his day but he couldn’t go out there and shoot for the team. The Spurs going 0-for-15 on three-pointers (outside of Parker) was the main reason why the offense struggled. The Big Three actually played well enough offensively for the Spurs to win – or at least make it a ballgame.

The bottomline is the Spurs are in trouble. There is time to turn it around but March is typically the month the Spurs start putting the final pieces on their playoff cake. Instead, the Spurs need to go back and start their baking from scratch. Can the Spurs turn this ship around in time?

They have to. It starts Friday in Detroit.

Believe.

[SpursFanFirst]

I can't say I'm sorry I missed this game. It sounded dreadful. :depressed

Thanks for the game thoughts, timvp

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Every word the truth. And your funniest effort yet. :tu

What will happen next? I have no idea. But I am leaving the Manumaniac quote as my sig because a lot of people could be jumping off cliffs during the next 10 games unless something changes drastically.

[whottt]

-As bad as everyone else was, Fabricio Oberto might have been the worst of the bunch. His effort defensively was an abomination. He turned Melvin Ely into Wilt Chamberlain with cornrows the few times he tried to defend him. Oberto against West? Ha. I can live with players hitting tough shots but Oberto let his man go wherever they wanted. I’ve seen traffic cones give more effort than Oberto gave tonight.


Wasn't it just a week ago that Oberto did a fantastic job on West?


In any case....Thomas and Stoudamire don't appear to be doing much for this club yet.

[TMTTRIO]

Great recap. Thanks. That's one of my biggest concerns with Manu. He's been playing huge minutes for a while now and even though he's doing well with them he's been getting pretty banged up (like the hip injury he went out with the other night) in just the last few games. I just hope he can stay healthy for the playoffs.

[romsho]

Pop also deserves blame for Ginobili running out of gas. If Ginobili isn’t able to find his energy before the playoffs begin, the downfall of the 2007-08 Spurs will be traced back to when Pop foolishly overworked Ginobili in the middle of the season.
Believe.
True, but as you also mentioned earlier in the season, Pop put alot of minutes on Manu and Tim out of desperation. You could argue both sides...Overplay the horses, suffer late in the season when trying to get ready for the playoffs. Make minutes the priority, even if it costs you a couple of losses... you could play yourself out of the playoff mix altogether. There is no room to give up games. It's just that tight. Pop more than anyone understands the balance- he has been forced to go with the the live for today mentality, and just hope everything works out at the end.

[DarrinS]

Besides being a damn good team, New Orleans is just a horrible matchup for San Antonio. They’re like a better version of the 2006 Dallas Mavericks.


So true.

[DarrinS]

And Manu looked like Manu from 2006. I don't know what it is, but something was not right with him last night. I hope he is able to recharge his batteries, because it is not going to get any easier.

[xtremesteven33]

And Manu looked like Manu from 2006. I don't know what it is, but something was not right with him last night. I hope he is able to recharge his batteries, because it is not going to get any easier.


Manu needs to play 20-25 minutes MAX.....were gonna have to suffer with Udoka and Finleys playing right now while Manus battery gets recharged.

I firmly believe that the Spurs had thier worst game last night and the Hornets had an UNBELIEVABLE game last night....i dont think this reflects anything worse that we didnt know already about the Spurs flaws.

-theyre aging
-manus tired
-udoka sucks

but i know theyll pick it up.....and im not just saying that. Theyre champions. theyve been thru these slumps before....

"Dont ever underestimate the heart of a champion"

[wildchild]

Wasn't it just a week ago that Oberto did a fantastic job on West?


In any case....Thomas and Stoudamire don't appear to be doing much for this club yet.

I agree.

Spurs @Hornets (Oberto as starter)

game 1 West 15 points 4 rebounds
Oberto 13 points 4 rebounds

game 3 West 16 points 6 rebounds
Oberto 8 points 9 rebounds

Spurs@Hornets (Oberto coming off the bench)
game 2-4 West 29 points 10 rebounds
Oberto 0 points 3 rebounds


Oberto against West is a good machup for him while he as starter.
Coming off the bench, his confidence isn't on the stratosphere right now.

[DarrinS]

Manu needs to play 20-25 minutes MAX.....were gonna have to suffer with Udoka and Finleys playing right now while Manus battery gets recharged.


We have too many players that are LIABILITIES on both ends of the court.


I can live with Bruce's streaky (at best) offense, because he's such a good dender, but these players are liabilities on both ends of the floor:


Finley
Udoka
Horry
Vaughn (good defense at times)
Stoudemire (yikes, WTF did we get a shittier van Exel?)


It's sad that we have to rely on KT for a reliable mid-range jumper.

This bench is pretty sad folks.

[urunobili]

i have been bitching about minutes since the very beginning of the season.. we all know he didn;t play for argentina this summer.. but i think Pop abused on that issue way too much... scary loss... but somehow i have the feeling that if we meet this team on the playoffs.. West won;t be as effective and Bowen will be on Paul's head all the time... Peja will have to beat us out of the court...

[ShoogarBear]

There is time to turn it around but March is typically the month the Spurs start putting the final pieces on their playoff cake. Instead, the Spurs need to go back and start their baking from scratch. Can the Spurs turn this ship around in time?

I think the Metaphor Police just put out an APB.

[wildchild]

Great recap. Thanks. That's one of my biggest concerns with Manu. He's been playing huge minutes for a while now and even though he's doing well with them he's been getting pretty banged up (like the hip injury he went out with the other night) in just the last few games. I just hope he can stay healthy for the playoffs.

I agree about Manu need to rest. Maybe Finley'll improve in the starting line up and Manu could rest more

[BonnerDynasty]

Didn't get to watch this game b/c I went to bed at 7:30 but Horry is taking Bonner's minutes and doing shit with them.

No biggie though, it's only March.

[pku47]

Great Recap again Timvp

If Spurs had played like this when Brent mading his decision :lol, even worse than suns in a spurs fan's view

We are in trouble, but not that bad.

Give more time to Bonner and forget Horry...

[41times]

The Spurs have always had someone to compliment the Big 3.

Well the Big 3 scored 59 pionts and shot 59% last night.

The rest of the team scored 16 pionts and shot 22% last night.

You can't win a title coming out of the West if your bench and or secondary players don't produce. period.

[mexicanjunior]

I think it's unfair to blame Popovich for overusing Manu the last few months, he has had to in order to stay competitive and try to win "must win" games. It's not like sitting him out a game or 2 doesn't matter. This year in the West, every game is a crucial to just stay in the playoff hunt. Had he used Manu sparingly during the stretch without Parker, we would be playing for the 7th or 8th seed instead of trying to hold into 1st...

[wildbill2u]

Believe.That's what it comes down to. A Prayer. BEIEVE we can win another championship despite what the facts about this season tell you. The Spurs haven't played well against teams that are over .500. And God knows there are a ton of them in the West this year.

A New Orleans coach said at halftime that the Spurs were an old team and their strategy was to run them off the court with they young legs of the NO players. Did it work?

Yes it did. Gotta have legs to shoot jumpers. The old vets (Horry Stoudamireare, Finley,) simply aren't cutting it. And it's gonna get worse with the schedule the Spurs are playing.

So we're gonna make the playoffs, but this year we probably won't have a confidence building surge at the end.

For the playoffs, the Spurs are going to have to BELIEVE their veterans can step up in playoff series---not believing in their eroding skills, but simply because they've been there before and can handle the pressure better than some of the younger teams. It worked last year, but those young teams keep getting more experienced and are confident they can beat us.

Ironically, this may be our last best chance at a championship for a while.
Because we've sold our future by bringing in more old players like Udoka and Thomas, and Stoudamire to add to old players like Horry, Finley, Bowen, Vaughn, and Oberto. And we're praying for the return of another old guy, Barry to liven the group up.

Think about it. Outside of Bonner, we have virtually NO players with a little experience who are ready to step in when the mass exodus to Great Memories Retirement Village occurs.

So fans better BELIEVE things will get better next year with the addition of some younger players. We need some good free agents with a couple of years experience and rookies who can pick up the NBA game fast. That's where my prayers are going. BELIEVE.

[Extra Stout]

I think it's unfair to blame Popovich for overusing Manu the last few months, he has had to in order to stay competitive and try to win "must win" games. It's not like sitting him out a game or 2 doesn't matter. This year in the West, every game is a crucial to just stay in the playoff hunt. Had he used Manu sparingly during the stretch without Parker, we would be playing for the 7th or 8th seed instead of trying to hold into 1st...
That was indeed the issue. If the Spurs had kept languishing in February, right now they'd be fighting to stay out of the lottery.

As it is now, they are six games in the loss column out of the lottery, so there's a little breathing room unless Phoenix, Dallas, Golden State, and Denver all get so hot that 53-29 becomes the threshold to make the playoffs.

If Manu Ginobili is too gassed to be Manu Ginobili in the postseason, then the Spurs have no chance.

[ducks]

Pop also deserves blame for Ginobili running out of gas. If Ginobili isn’t able to find his energy before the playoffs begin, the downfall of the 2007-08 Spurs will be traced back to when Pop foolishly overworked Ginobili in the middle of the season.
this is what was bad with barry getting hute
and ime still learning the system

[some_user86]

Pop also deserves blame for Ginobili running out of gas. If Ginobili isn’t able to find his energy before the playoffs begin, the downfall of the 2007-08 Spurs will be traced back to when Pop foolishly overworked Ginobili in the middle of the season.
this is what was bad with barry getting hute
and ime still learning the system

So what's the exact date that Barry can be back?

[timaios]

The Spurs were tired.
Hornets had 3 days of rest, Spurs only 1 before that game.
Spurs played 2 very tough games on a back to back before that game.

That explain a lot.

Except Parker, Spurs were 0-15 at 3pts.
With a record of 5-15, a "normal" shooting % for the spurs (33%), that's 15 more points for the spurs and we're still in that game.

Besides, the Hornets played a great game with big intensity. They're not going to shoot at 59% in a 7 games serie.

Damon Stoudamire and Robert Horry are playing against the Spurs.
Vaughn is a better defender than Damon AND shoot better TOO !!!
Robert Horry has nothing left in the tank. Pop need to accept it and Robert too.

Manu is human finally and need a little rest... i am not worry about him, he will be huge in the playoffs.

Michael Finley & Ime Udoka... I don't know what to think.

This season is really tough this year and the age of spurs players is a problem. The schedule is crazy and i don't know how Pop is going to do to give some rest to his players...

In april, maybe we'll need to give up some places in standings.
A rested team is more important than HCA.

Believe.

[deadratsam]

"Daque Vaudamire" sounds like a badass name.

[some_user86]

The Spurs were tired.
Hornets had 3 days of rest, Spurs only 1 before that game.
Spurs played 2 very tough games on a back to back before that game.

That explain a lot.

Except Parker, Spurs were 0-15 at 3pts.
With a record of 5-15, a "normal" shooting % for the spurs (33%), that's 15 more points for the spurs and we're still in that game.

Besides, the Hornets played a great game with big intensity. They're not going to shoot at 59% in a 7 games serie.

Damon Stoudamire and Robert Horry are playing against the Spurs.
Vaughn is a better defender than Damon AND shoot better TOO !!!
Robert Horry has nothing left in the tank. Pop need to accept it and Robert too.

Manu is human finally and need a little rest... i am not worry about him, he will be huge in the playoffs.

Michael Finley & Ime Udoka... I don't know what to think.

This season is really tough this year and the age of spurs players is a problem. The schedule is crazy and i don't know how Pop is going to do to give some rest to his players...

In april, maybe we'll need to give up some places in standings.
A rested team is more important than HCA.

Believe.

I think this year Robert Horry will become the 2006 version of NVE: a player that is well beyond his peak, but one that Pop keeps playing above the younger counterpart in hopes that his higher IQ will give the team an edge.

[ancestron]

Spurs are a mess right now

[Zarko's Ghost]

Although the Spurs haven't been very sharp the last couple of weeks, I don't think this game tells us much about how they will fare in the playoffs. Although New Orleans is a tough matchup with all of their good mid-range jump shooters, the game looked like one between a well- rested team and a tired team. Also, I don't think I've seen a team all year that hit more fadeaway jumpers than the Hornets did tonight.
I wouldn't mind avoiding the Hornets in the playoffs, but I don't think Spurs fans need to panic if we were are matched up with them.

[Budkin]

Your analysis usually makes me feel better about losses. This one made me feel worse about our chances to repeat than I have all season. It's hard to keep the faith in this team but of course I will. I believe.

[LEONARD]

believe!!!!
believe!!!!
believe!!!!
believe!!!!
believe!!!!
believe!!!!
believe!!!!

[thousandth]

New rotation didn't work out well in the end on last six games we lost three. Mike, Udoka, Oberto were playing their worst game with the new rotation. Surely Pop won't make further changes at this state of the season but we should return to Rodeo starting lineup. We ended up with a very good record.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

I think the Spurs are fine in the playoffs if they're able to get homecourt advantage in every round. They won't be able to bite the bullet come playoff time if they've dropped so low that they would not have homecourt advantage in every round.

[remingtonbo2001]

I think we need to re-insert Oberto into the starting lineup and consistantly bring Gino off the bench.

[Obstructed_View]

New rotation didn't work out well in the end on last six games we lost three. Mike, Udoka, Oberto were playing their worst game with the new rotation. Surely Pop won't make further changes at this state of the season but we should return to Rodeo starting lineup. We ended up with a very good record.
Manu and Finley starting with Tony Parker watching from home?

[SpurYank]

Sorry, but I can't go along with this "Manu is tired" bit. Tim, Bruce, Tony, all play similar minutes. There was nothing in Manu's performance last night that caused the loss. It's a team concept, and there are 10 or 11 other members who also have to contribute. It was mostly the terrific shooting from the Hornets, our defense, and our offense. I watched the Suns do something quite similar on a Sunday on national TV recently. The Pistons did it last night. The Celtics don't do it because that team is hungry as hell. They've been dry for a long, long time.

Hopefully it's a waker upper.

[1Parker1]

I also blame Pop for Damon's downfall.

Stoudamire was actually playing decently, knowing when to distribue, how to run the offense, etc, before Pop went out and told him he needs to shoot more. Since then, all Damon does is look for his shot instead of running the Spurs offense which should be his primary goal.

[Obstructed_View]

I also blame Pop for Damon's downfall.

Stoudamire was actually playing decently, knowing when to distribue, how to run the offense, etc, before Pop went out and told him he needs to shoot more. Since then, all Damon does is look for his shot instead of running the Spurs offense which should be his primary goal.
I agree with that. MM was doing a pretty good job within the offense and then the whole train started to derail about the time he started jacking up shots.

[thousandth]

Manu and Finley starting with Tony Parker watching from home?

Not. Seriously, Mike're so bad coming off the bench. Oberto, too. Even Udoka plays bad with the new rotation. 3 of 6 so bad.

[phxspurfan]

Tired Spurs = Spurs loss. I blame this one on the schedule.

[Obstructed_View]

Not. Seriously, Mike're so bad coming off the bench. Oberto, too. Even Udoka plays bad with the new rotation. 3 of 6 so bad.
So the fuck what? They need to learn how to contribute. Shitty play shouldn't earn you a starting spot. :lol

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Thanks for the great analysis Timvp! :tu




18 games. That what the Spurs have left to right the ship. 18 games.

[carina_gino20]

Sorry, but I can't go along with this "Manu is tired" bit. Tim, Bruce, Tony, all play similar minutes. There was nothing in Manu's performance last night that caused the loss. It's a team concept, and there are 10 or 11 other members who also have to contribute.

There was a long stretch when Tony was out that Manu played very extended minutes from his usual playing time. For years, Pop has done a good job pacing Manu, because Manu doesn't know how to. He plays with only one speed. This year, because of the way the West is playing and with TP's injury, Pop has been forced to play Manu more to salvage some games.

Manu may not have cost them the game last night. But it was obvious that he couldn't contribute much because he is tired. He already said it after the Denver game. He needs to rest.

In addition, Pop needs to make a decision about that starting lineup. Soon.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

And Manu looked like Manu from 2006. I don't know what it is, but something was not right with him last night. I hope he is able to recharge his batteries, because it is not going to get any easier.
I think Manu's both tired and a liar and he downplayed his contusion.
It reminded me of when he got immobilized after getting Banged up in game 3 of the pistons. Which is why he missed his jumpers; no legs.

He said was tired for the Denver game, but he still played sharply. In this game he was completely stiff when running. Hopefully tomorrow he'll show signs of life against his favorite defense. If he still sucks against the Pistons then he needs to take the Chicago and Sacramento games off next week.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

We have too many players that are LIABILITIES on both ends of the court.


I can live with Bruce's streaky (at best) offense, because he's such a good dender, but these players are liabilities on both ends of the floor:


Finley
Udoka
Horry
Vaughn (good defense at times)
Stoudemire (yikes, WTF did we get a shittier van Exel?)


It's sad that we have to rely on KT for a reliable mid-range jumper.

This bench is pretty sad folks.

I don't agree that these guys are generally a liability on both ends, but there are all certainly a liability at one end or the other, and that in itself causes enough problems.

As I've said since the slump, if only we could COMBINE these guys (and Bonner) into one player, we'd be unbeatable!

Imagine Tim, Tony, Manu, Bruce, Brent and KT playing beside UdoFin, Borry and Stoudevaughn. Killah!

[1Parker1]

Here's what I don't understand about Robert Horry;
In years past, even if his shot wasn't falling, his off the charts basketball IQ usually helped the team in terms of +- which made him worthwhile to have on the court. Whether it would be a smart defensive play, rebound, charge, etc. His basketball IQ from all his years of experience in playoff and big game moments was most obvious.

However, this season, it's like he's playing like a Rookie out there. He's just laughing it up, being lazy, and just all over the place defensively and on offense. I don't understand how this has happened to a player like Horry. He looks like a joke out there.

I know Timvp has also always appreciated his Basketball IQ, anyone else see this?

[SAGambler]

I think it's unfair to blame Popovich for overusing Manu the last few months, he has had to in order to stay competitive and try to win "must win" games. It's not like sitting him out a game or 2 doesn't matter. This year in the West, every game is a crucial to just stay in the playoff hunt. Had he used Manu sparingly during the stretch without Parker, we would be playing for the 7th or 8th seed instead of trying to hold into 1st...

Aha. Someone finally figured out that those Nov. Dec. Jan. Feb Regular Season games actually do count for something.

But if someone says something about Dec, Jan, Feb losses, they are accussed of jumping off the Spurs bandwagon and don't understand it's just an early RS loss and besides, don't you know, Spurs don't start to play till March.

Well, here's a fucking hint......It's March. So when is the allmighty SPAM going to begin?

[T Park]

t's March. So when is the allmighty SPAM going to begin?


Seeing as it stands for AFTER March.

Theres your fucking hint.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I am so pissed off right now about this loss still. Basically the age of our team is a liability when we're faced with a season in which we have to play every game like its a must win.

Ginobili looks so gassed right now, its depressing. Parker is nowhere NEAR the level we need him to be (in other words the level he was before ankle troubles).

[T Park]

So Parker's 28 wasn't good last night?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

So Parker's 28 wasn't good last night?



Points aren't everything. His footwork is slow, he has not been able to bumrush to the rack on one man fast breaks like he used to, and he's ending up on his ass more than ever now.

He's just begging to get injured.

[whottt]

Here's what I don't understand about Robert Horry;
In years past, even if his shot wasn't falling, his off the charts basketball IQ usually helped the team in terms of +- which made him worthwhile to have on the court. Whether it would be a smart defensive play, rebound, charge, etc. His basketball IQ from all his years of experience in playoff and big game moments was most obvious.

However, this season, it's like he's playing like a Rookie out there. He's just laughing it up, being lazy, and just all over the place defensively and on offense. I don't understand how this has happened to a player like Horry. He looks like a joke out there.

I know Timvp has also always appreciated his Basketball IQ, anyone else see this?



Minutes matter. Horry is trying to stay on the court and thus he's not playing like Horry. He's having his worst season? He's also getting probably the fewest minutes ever as well.

Since Horry doesn't rely a whole lot on physical ability, I'm saying his off season is probably due more to a lack of PT than a steep decline.



But since he's not a getting a great deal of minutes...he cannot be held responsible for our current ineffective play.

Neither can Brent Barry.

Neither can Jacque Vaughn.

Neither can Matt Bonner.


And neither can infamous board whipping boy Francisco Elson.



The guys that can be held accountable are the guys getting the minutes and not having a noticable impact either in the stat column or in the W-L column.



What I want to know...are we better off with Damon Stoudamire, Kurt Thomas and Udoka, than Vaughn, Elson and Barry?


No. We aren't.



I hope Spur fans keep that in mind when they are ripping guys not getting minutes...

[timvp]

The Spurs are losing because they traded Francisco Elson

[whottt]

PS: Would have been nice if the addition of Kurt Thomas had lead to a win over the Suns...pretty much the entire reason he was brought here.

[T Park]

We are better off with Kurt Thomas than Elson, that cannot be debated one bit.

[timvp]

I hate Kurt Thomas

I love Kurt Thomas

I hate Kurt Thomas

[whottt]

Elson will pay for that owning he gave me, even if it means getting blown out by every elite team in the Western Conference.

[T Park]

Would have been nice if the addition of Kurt Thomas had lead to a win over the Suns...pretty much the entire reason he was brought here.


He can't keep Manu from shooting stupid threes, nor guard Nash at the perimiter.

[timvp]

Too bad that owning only lasted one game of his Spurs career. I would have gladly been owned if it meant David Robinson, Jr. joined the club.

[ShoogarBear]

But since he's not a getting a great deal of minutes...he cannot be held responsible for our current ineffective play.
Holy crap. Did whottt just use the Beno Excuse to defend Robert Horry?

[whottt]

Ahhh so it's Manu and an inability to guard Nash that is the problem now....excuse me for not noticing that being the major issue the last two times we have beaten them in the post season, and the 7 or 8 times we've beaten them during the last two regular seasons.



So in summary, we can't beat the Suns because:

1. Manu
2. We can't guard Steve Nash.

[whottt]

It's the guys not playing and that are no longer here causing us to lose games, not their replacements



I get it...I just don't like it. :td

[T Park]

Ahhh so it's Manu and an inability to guard Nash that is the problem now....excuse me for not noticing that being the major issue the last two times we have beaten them in the post season, and the 7 or 8 times we've beaten them during the last two regular seasons.



So in summary, we can't beat the Suns because:

1. Manu
2. We can't guard Steve Nash.


That was the reason at the end of the last game.

Don't let your childish hatred of Kurt Thomas get in the way though.

[T Park]

You've said he sucked before too mr high and mighty

[whottt]

Yeah but I'm not the one saying he sucks when he's not getting minutes to suck...



And I know you value rebounds per/48 over actual wins...but I don't see any value there.

[whottt]

Holy shit...I can't believe I'm actually taking the time to argue with someone that considers Finley's post season last year as being clutch.

[T Park]

No I value stats like 13 against Denver

and 8 and whatever against Phoenix

[whottt]

We're not as good this year(edit - with Thomas and Stoudamire) as we were at this time last year(edit - with Elson, Vaughn and Barry).


Argue with him.............

[T Park]

:lol

Talk about pulling things out of nowhere.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Here's what I don't understand about Robert Horry;
In years past, even if his shot wasn't falling, his off the charts basketball IQ usually helped the team in terms of +- which made him worthwhile to have on the court. Whether it would be a smart defensive play, rebound, charge, etc. His basketball IQ from all his years of experience in playoff and big game moments was most obvious.

However, this season, it's like he's playing like a Rookie out there. He's just laughing it up, being lazy, and just all over the place defensively and on offense. I don't understand how this has happened to a player like Horry. He looks like a joke out there.

I know Timvp has also always appreciated his Basketball IQ, anyone else see this?

Yup. Actually, I said the very same thing on January 30 in a thread I started called "change is in the air". I said he looked a step slow, that his ballas IQ wasn't helping him any more, and that he was done. I then got shouted down by T Park amongst others claiming that I was wrong and that it was just his regular season malaise as usual (T Park didn't use the word "malaise", though). I responded that I knew about his regular season malaise, and that it didn't look like what I'd been seeing - he just looked to slow and out of sorts to be playing in the NBA.

Horry then went on a stretch up to the ASB when he played okay and looked more like himself, but since the ASB he has been atrocious again.

I don't think the team can rely on him for anything any more and I think he should be dropped from the rotation. He looks like Elliot Spitzer and a $5K hooker to me - ALL OVER.

...none of which decreases my respect for his incredible career in any way. You still rock, Rob, just time to hang up the boots.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Points aren't everything. His footwork is slow, he has not been able to bumrush to the rack on one man fast breaks like he used to, and he's ending up on his ass more than ever now.

He's just begging to get injured.

That's not what I saw at all. He got to the rack for layups 5 or 6 times, and had at least 2 one-man fast-breaks. His jumper even looked good, although his FTs were horrible.

Parker was not the problem last night, the entire role rotation was the problem.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

His jumper did not look great at all. Yes he made them, but he was making jumpers before the arrival of chip engelland too you know. He was barely even jumping high for his jumpers, and his three ball was very flat, hardly any arc.

It's becoming very apparent to me that parker's jumpshot has regressed this season, more than likely because of the time off he has had. That does not bode well for consistent playoff jumpers.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

why all the whottt hate on K Thomas? He's had some sub par games, but for the most part I've been pretty happy with him.


It's very nice to have a big man outside of TD who has a solid 18 footer.

[timvp]

Regarding my point on Ginobili's minutes, I don't think that Pop giving Manu around ten extra minutes per game from the end of January to the end of February was the difference between the Spurs making and not making the playoffs. Sure, if Manu's minutes were held more in check, the Spurs probably would have lost three or four more games. But now the Spurs are losing games they'd likely win if Manu were at 100%.

The way I see it, Pop basically delayed losses by wearing Ginobili out and risking his postseason performance. I would have much rather drop some games in February and even fall a bit in the standings if it meant keeping Ginobili healthy and rested. The West is good but it's not so good that the Spurs would actually miss the playoffs ... even if they had dug themselves a hole. A rested Ginobili along with Duncan and Parker would have been able to make up any ground that would have been lost.

Now the Spurs have a dead tired Ginobili and before this week is over, they'll probably give back whatever progress they made by playing him big minutes last month. Spurs fans now have to hope that Ginobili finds a second wind between now and the playoffs. Manu freakin' asked out of a game in the fourth quarter due to fatigue ... something I've never seen him do. Usually Manu is begging to play as many minutes as possible.

[Streakyshooter08]

Regarding my point on Ginobili's minutes, I don't think that Pop giving Manu around ten extra minutes per game from the end of January to the end of February was the difference between the Spurs making and not making the playoffs. Sure, if Manu's minutes were held more in check, the Spurs probably would have lost three or four more games. But now the Spurs are losing games they'd likely win if Manu were at 100%.

The way I see it, Pop basically delayed losses by wearing Ginobili out and risking his postseason performance. I would have much rather drop some games in February and even fall a bit in the standings if it meant keeping Ginobili healthy and rested. The West is good but it's not so good that the Spurs would actually miss the playoffs ... even if they had dug themselves a hole. A rested Ginobili along with Duncan and Parker would have been able to make up any ground that would have been lost.



Well, I am split on that one. I agree that Manu played a lot. But if you substract 4 or 5 wins the Spurs would not even be in the POs at this point or tied with the Warriors for the 7th and 8th spot. To win games in this though West it is not easy to get wins and to rest your players at the same time. In additon to that TP (and even Barry) was hurt for 3 weeks which made it even more difficult to rest players.

The good thing is that the schedule eases up a bit in April. So we have to hope that the Spurs find a way to maybe sit Manu a couple of games and get him ready for the playoffs.

[polandprzem]

Yup. Actually, I said the very same thing on January 30 in a thread I started called "change is in the air". I said he looked a step slow, that his ballas IQ wasn't helping him any more, and that he was done. I then got shouted down by T Park amongst others claiming that I was wrong and that it was just his regular season malaise as usual (T Park didn't use the word "malaise", though). I responded that I knew about his regular season malaise, and that it didn't look like what I'd been seeing - he just looked to slow and out of sorts to be playing in the NBA.

Horry then went on a stretch up to the ASB when he played okay and looked more like himself, but since the ASB he has been atrocious again.

I don't think the team can rely on him for anything any more and I think he should be dropped from the rotation. He looks like Elliot Spitzer and a $5K hooker to me - ALL OVER.

...none of which decreases my respect for his incredible career in any way. You still rock, Rob, just time to hang up the boots.

Ah yea and timvp was leading the charge that Horry is still Horry of 2005 or 2006 ...