US economy is no longer the world's largest.

[RandomGuy]

I actually saw this coming a few months ago, from an intersting bit in the business press, but here it is official:

Source article at yahoo.com (orig Reuters) (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080314/ts_nm/economy_world_biggest_dc)

PARIS (Reuters) - The U.S. economy lost the title of "world's biggest" to the euro zone this week as the value of the dollar slumped in currency markets.


Taking the gross domestic product of both economies in 2007, the combined GDP of the 15 countries which use the euro overtook that of the United States when the European currency surged to a record high of more than $1.56 per euro.

"The curious outcome of breaching this latest milestone is that the size of the euro zone's annual output has now exceeded that of the U.S.," the economics department of Goldman Sachs, the Wall Street investment bank, said in a note to clients.

Taking official estimates of 2007 GDP -- $13,843,800 billion for the United States and 8,847,889.1 billion euros for the euro zone -- the economy of the latter passed the United States once converted into dollars, shortly after the euro topped $1.56.

The dollar sank to $1.5688 per euro late in European trading hours on Friday, at which rate the euro zone's 2007 GDP equates to $13,880,568.4 billion.

The 2007 GDP estimates are as published by the U.S. Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis and provided to Reuters on request for the euro zone by Eurostat, the European Union's statistics office.

(Writing by Brian Love; editing by Stephen Nisbet)

[RandomGuy]

The REAL funny thing for conservadrones in the US, is that they LOOOVE to talk about how socialist europe means lower standards of living and the big figure used for this are the mean income figures.

"Look", they say, "if you lived in Europe, you would on average only be earning X, below the US level of Y."

I wonder what the current exchange rate has done to that statement.

[Phil Hellmuth]

Purchasing power reigns supreme.

[RandomGuy]

Purchasing power reigns supreme.

The purchasing power of the 1 euro coin in my jar at home got bigger over the last year or so, heh.

I present this bit merely because people don't normally think about these things.

I am not trying to say "EU rules, US sucks", as I am sure some conservatives here will try and pretend.

That the EU is growing faster than the US, and likely will going into the future, if only because of the admission of a few more member states, is something to consider.

Think about what that means for manufacturers and others.

US standards in terms of things like fire safety and a whole host of other things have led simply because if you want to sell in the US market, it is better to have a US version first then modify it to sell in the EU.

That changes once people realize that the common EU market is larger.

This seachange in attitudes and business calculations will have profound effects in the coming decades.

I say:

Think of it what you will, but deal with the reality.

[RandomGuy]

Maybe we will finally get around to getting rid of the shitty system of weights and measures we have now and go metric.

[Yonivore]

Taking the gross domestic product of both economies in 2007, the combined GDP of the 15 countries which use the euro overtook that of the United States when the European currency surged to a record high of more than $1.56 per euro.
Well, hell, it took 15 countries to do it!

[JoeChalupa]

We will bounce back.

[fyatuk]

The REAL funny thing for conservadrones in the US, is that they LOOOVE to talk about how socialist europe means lower standards of living and the big figure used for this are the mean income figures.

"Look", they say, "if you lived in Europe, you would on average only be earning X, below the US level of Y."

I wonder what the current exchange rate has done to that statement.

Depends on where you are in the EU. The western european countries, in which the movement towards socialism is newer, are carrying the EU economy. 2/3rd of the GDP comes from less than 1/5th of the countries.

Socialism means less fluctuations. They won't have huge gains or huge losses like we do in the US. A slight change here can send our economy surging, or plummeting.

The bigger concern about the EU is unemployment. They've improved recently, but in many EU member states unemployment is close to twice what the US's is, and many people think the US's is high. The one's with the lowest unemployment are countries that have crappy standards of living (aka cheaper labor).

EU should enjoy it while it lasts. It'll likely only last a year or two at most.

[Extra Stout]

I was going to panic about the weak dollar, but apparently it's been weaker before.

[Yonivore]

I was going to panic about the weak dollar, but apparently it's been weaker before.
It has.

[JoeChalupa]

Erin Burnett is hot.

[Wild Cobra]

The REAL funny thing for conservadrones in the US, is that they LOOOVE to talk about how socialist europe means lower standards of living and the big figure used for this are the mean income figures.

Show soome evidence your statement is correct.

Consider this. We are sitting at about 300 million people. The EU has almost 500 million. They finally passed us...

What does that tell you about their standard of living?

I'd say it roughly puts us at 60% better per person average.

[Clandestino]

The REAL funny thing for conservadrones in the US, is that they LOOOVE to talk about how socialist europe means lower standards of living and the big figure used for this are the mean income figures.

"Look", they say, "if you lived in Europe, you would on average only be earning X, below the US level of Y."

I wonder what the current exchange rate has done to that statement.

If you like giving half of your income away move to Europe.

[inconvertible]

dumbfucks.

USA = one country.

EU=12938402348102398443324 counties.

[smeagol]

Who cares?

Seriously . . .

[Yonivore]

Who cares?

Seriously . . .
Apparently, RandomGuy.

[Wild Cobra]

Who cares?

Seriously . . .
Apparently, RandomGuy.
Well, the premise of his point was that socialism provided for a higher quality of life over capitalism. It doesn't matter how many countries were involved. He simply made the mistake of looking at a gross number without seeing how it works out per person. I'll bet one of those propaganda sites provided the data, and he became a willing lemming among their liberal ranks to repeat the propaganda.

[DarkReign]

Well, the premise of his point was that socialism provided for a higher quality of life over capitalism.

....and in one quick sentence, you proved your perceived lack of reading comprehension.

Better to be thought a fool....

[Nbadan]

the premise of his point was that socialism provided for a higher quality of life over capitalism.

I can't speak for RG, he does a well enough job of that on his own anyway, but I hardly think his point was that 'socialist' Europe :rolleyes has a higher 'quality of life', whatever the hell that means, than those in the U.S....

[Wild Cobra]

....and in one quick sentence, you proved your perceived lack of reading comprehension.

Better to be thought a fool....
Really?

Please explain. I must need some teaching in reading comprehension. Random directly address the European social system, connecting it to the GDP. I showed the total doesn't matter, but the average per person. Simple math. More people per dollar equal less dollars per person.

What did I do wrong? If it is not lower, then it is equal or higher, right? How can it not be lower when there are so many more people?

Please... I'm waiting to see you comprehend this more than I.

[DarrinS]

So, an entire CONTINENT has a larger economy than the US?


Ok.

[Ignignokt]

The REAL funny thing for conservadrones in the US, is that they LOOOVE to talk about how socialist europe means lower standards of living and the big figure used for this are the mean income figures.

"Look", they say, "if you lived in Europe, you would on average only be earning X, below the US level of Y."

I wonder what the current exchange rate has done to that statement.




....and in one quick sentence, you proved your perceived lack of reading comprehension.

Better to be thought a fool....



indeed.

[Ignignokt]

I can't speak for RG, he does a well enough job of that on his own anyway, but I hardly think his point was that 'socialist' Europe :rolleyes has a higher 'quality of life', whatever the hell that means, than those in the U.S....




....and in one quick sentence, you proved your perceived lack of reading comprehension.

Better to be thought a fool....


obvioulsy cutting and pasting does not boost reading comprehension.

man liberals are their own worst enemy.

[RandomGuy]

Really?

Please explain. I must need some teaching in reading comprehension. Random directly address the European social system, connecting it to the GDP. I showed the total doesn't matter, but the average per person. Simple math. More people per dollar equal less dollars per person.

What did I do wrong? If it is not lower, then it is equal or higher, right? How can it not be lower when there are so many more people?

Please... I'm waiting to see you comprehend this more than I.

Actually, I didn't really say anything good/bad about socialism, nor did I really say that socialism makes for better standards of living.

What I did say is that I find it amusing that simple currency fluctuations will take some wind out of the "look at their average earnings compared to ours" arguments.

I always find it amusing when people get their worldviews challenged. Hell it even happens to me on occasion. :lol

[RandomGuy]

Well, the premise of his point was that socialism provided for a higher quality of life over capitalism. It doesn't matter how many countries were involved. He simply made the mistake of looking at a gross number without seeing how it works out per person. I'll bet one of those propaganda sites provided the data, and he became a willing lemming among their liberal ranks to repeat the propaganda.

Yahoo financial news. Via Reuters.

Total commie propaganda. :lol

It was an interesting sniglet of news, nothing more.

As I have said repeatedly, I find it simply to be a "gee whiz" bit, and not really something that says one is good/bad or better/worse than the other.

Over the coming years, it will have a profound effect on a lot of things that aren't clear now, but for now it is what it is.

[Nbadan]

Well, hell, it took 15 countries to do it!

Last I checked it was the United States of America...how many states are there again?....besides, it's not the size of the user, it's the value of the currency...

[Extra Stout]

Last I checked it was the United States of America...how many states are there again?....besides, it's not the size of the user, it's the value of the currency...
OMG! We're 50 separate countries!

You're such a dumbass.

[fyatuk]

Last I checked it was the United States of America...how many states are there again?....besides, it's not the size of the user, it's the value of the currency...

We haven't been individual States since Lincoln tore up the 10th Amendment.

But number of countries is irrelevant. Money (put into common demonination), # of people, and # of companies, plus distribution of said money is the important thing.

It's not like it matters much anyway. Like you rightly point out, fluctuation of the dollar is the explanation. Once we reduce debt spending and let the value of the dollar improve, the US will be #1 again. Then again, if we don't start managing a surplus by the time the SS trust needs to be cashed in, the dollar will get a whole lot worse.

[Nbadan]

OMG! We're 50 separate countries!

You're such a dumbass.

It's important because some states of the larger economies than some countries in the EU, and we all trade in dollars.......

[MannyIsGod]

OMG! We're 50 separate countries!

You're such a dumbass.Well you can compare the member states of the EU to the states in the US in economic terms in certain ways. While its not exactly the same the comparison of Europe as a whole to the United States is not something we can just throw away because "we're one country and they're 15".

[smeagol]

Aside from an ego persepctive, why is this important?

[MannyIsGod]

Aside from an ego persepctive, why is this important?Cause we're bored?

[velik_m]

Show soome evidence your statement is correct.

Consider this. We are sitting at about 300 million people. The EU has almost 500 million. They finally passed us...

What does that tell you about their standard of living?

I'd say it roughly puts us at 60% better per person average.

Eurozone is not the same as EU.

Currently there are 15 member states with over 320 million people in the Eurozone.

[smeagol]

Cause we're bored?

:tu

Good point!

[fyatuk]

Aside from an ego persepctive, why is this important?

There's a lot of ramifications related to foreign investments that MIGHT occur (shifting to probably if the trend continues over the next decade). Our large economy has bailed us out of recessions and such often due to foreign investments and loans to make sure the dollar doesn't plummett down to peso, or worse pre-adjustment lira levels.

If the trend continues, as well as other factors such as how much business companies do in the areas, foreign investments could shift into Euro instead of USD and we won't have the security blanket bailouts if needed.

[smeagol]

China's economy will be larger than the US' in the coming years.

Think about that for a moment . . .

(I think ray is already scared)

[fyatuk]

China's economy will be larger than the US' in the coming years.

Think about that for a moment . . .

(I think ray is already scared)

They're also primarily an exporter. They don't "matter" as much on a global sense because of that. US and EU are both insane heavy importers, especially the US which runs with a massive trade deficit.

It's not likely anyone is going to shift many investments into renminbi, or whatever the heck it is.

Logically speaking, China and India SHOULD have the largest economies, being the only countries with over 1 billion people living there. And China has actually lightened up their market controls. They still have a structured market, but it's much more free than it was 20 years ago.

[xrayzebra]

China's economy will be larger than the US' in the coming years.

Think about that for a moment . . .

(I think ray is already scared)

Isn't that what you said about Japan? Or was it that
the Japs would buy up all the U.S.? I cant remember.

By the way, when are you returning to this no good
country?
:p:

[Extra Stout]

It's important because some states of the larger economies than some countries in the EU, and we all trade in dollars.......
Are you channeling ducks here?

[Extra Stout]

Cause we're bored?
The slide of the dollar has consequences. It used to be that during a recession, investors would turn to the dollar as a store of value, since T-bills were a better bet than volatile developing economies. But that has changed. Now investors have plenty of options around the world.

The upshot is that the dollar will sag until we come into trade balance. On the one hand it means that jobs to produce goods could return. On the other hand, it means our standard of living is going to take a substantial hit, because foreign goods will be unaffordable, and a significant portion of our output will be heading overseas.

[Clandestino]

on that note. us exports are at an all time high

[Wild Cobra]

Eurozone is not the same as EU.

Currently there are 15 member states with over 320 million people in the Eurozone.
This is true. I find it funny it took so long for someone to challenge what I left out.

Good job.

Still, if the population of those Euro zone members are counted, the population is still larger than the USA. Not as bad as I implied with my intentional misleading facts.

[RandomGuy]

on that note. us exports are at an all time high


As a percentage of the US economy?

[smeagol]

Isn't that what you said about Japan? Or was it that
the Japs would buy up all the U.S.? I cant remember.

Never said that of the Japs



By the way, when are you returning to this no good
country?
:p:

I'm in NY one week of every month (at a minimum).

I need two more years and I will qualify for citizenship. I will probably apply for it then and weigh my options of what to do.

[Wild Cobra]

As a percentage of the US economy?
I don't recall the reported numbers, but exports are up substantially. I doubt it's an all time high, but it's the highest percentage in a long time. It's due to US goods becoming cheaper on the world market as the dollar drops.

[Gino]

So the EU is controlled by one government?

[RandomGuy]

China's economy will be larger than the US' in the coming years.

Think about that for a moment . . .

(I think ray is already scared)

That will probably not happen for decades. (40-50 years)

[RandomGuy]

I don't recall the reported numbers, but exports are up substantially. I doubt it's an all time high, but it's the highest percentage in a long time. It's due to US goods becoming cheaper on the world market as the dollar drops.

See here is the thing about "all time highs".

They are kinda meaningless without context.

US exports at all time highs simply means that they grew by some percentage.

If exports grew at .0001% from the last "all time high" that is a new all time high, and if the economy, in the same period grew 3%, then exports have actually shrank compared to the overall economy.

[Wild Cobra]

If exports grew at .0001% from the last "all time high" that is a new all time high, and if the economy, in the same period grew 3%, then exports have actually shrank compared to the overall economy.
Yes, some of us do realize that. It is a substantial increase. I just don't remember the numbers, but it is a high percentage wise. The increase fom last year is double digets.

[nkdlunch]

that's not fair. Europe is run by intelligent people