Why are the Spurs Struggling?

[GSH]

I have read a lot of comments about the Spurs "Big 3" looking tired. Well, why wouldn't they be? Look at what the rest of the team is doing, particularly on nights when the Spurs lose. I pulled some numbers to illustrate.

The Spurs have 20 losses this season. Take out the 2 that we lost without Duncan on the floor - assume we know why we lost those games. That leaves 18 losses with Duncan on the floor. In those 18 losses a couple of things really leap from the stat sheets:

1. In 11 of the 18 losses, only 3 Spurs players scored in double figures.
2. In 3 of the remaining 7 losses, we managed to get a 4th player in double figures... barely: Thomas - 11, Finley - 11, and Bonner - 10. (Bonner scored his 9th & 10th in garbage time.)
3. In 3 of the other 4 losses, we had more than 3 players in double figures, but our 3-point shooting was: 5-23 (.217), 6-28 (.214), and 2-20 (.100). And with the exception of Bowen, our starting 5 are generally not where we get our 3-pointers. (In all 3 of those losses, Ginobili came off the bench.)

Bottom line... in 17 of their losses this year, the Spurs have had nobody but the Big 3 stepping up. (The same could also be said for a number of the Spurs' wins this season.) One of the beautiful things about the Spurs' teams of the past is that on any given night, someone would step up and have a big game. We've gotten used to seeing players like Finley, Barry, Horry, Bonner, etc. step in we needed some extra punch. On too many occasions this season, that just hasn't happened. On the nights when the Spurs play textbook defense, and the calls are fairly balanced, they can still win ugly with defense. But the lack of offensive production from the major role players leaves them vulnerable to most teams the rest of the time.

It's hard to look at the stats for the Spurs bench, because of Ginobili. But when you pull his numbers out, you see that in most of our losses this year the bench shot well under 40%... and in a fair number of games they shot under 35%. And in a quick glance at the box scores, I found a lot of games where the opponents' benches shot 45+% against us. [Ex.: In the loss to NOH, the Spurs bench shot 6-27 (.222) and the Hornets bench shot 11-19 (.579). In the last loss to Denver, the Spurs bench shot 6-27 (.222) , while the Nuggets bench shot 14-22 (.637).] It's bad enough when the other team's bench outscores ours. But when our bench shoots such a low percentage, we also give up a lot of points in transition.

I think it's just like the free throw shooting - after a while it gets into players' heads. There have been a number of occasions this season where it looked like none of the 5 players on the floor wanted to take a shot. Maybe if the rotations get settled down, and the role players all know exactly what their role is, they can step in and play loose for their allotted minutes. And for all those who knock Brent Barry, you have to admit it will be nice to have another guy who can come off the bench and score 15 on any given night.

We never knew which player was going to step up in those tough games, but we felt confident that someone would. I think that we need that back more than anything right now. Because I don't think there is any way we can go deep in the playoffs with a 3-man offense.

[BlackSwordsMan]

What has happened to stoudamire? The guy just vanished in terms of helping.

[BlackSwordsMan]

LeBron with the spurs next year.
Make it happen!

[BlackSwordsMan]

What has happened to stoudamire*? The guy just vanished in terms of helping.
To be fair
*Oberto,Horry,Finley

[ancestron]

You could've put this in one of the other 5 thousand "whats wrong with the Spurs" threads.

[JamStone]

Ok, I asked this question in a game blog a few games ago but didn't get a response. I'm just wondering what's up with Tim Duncan defensively this season. I don't recall another season where a Duncan anchored defense routinely allowed big performances from the opposing main threat on the low post. It's not all on Tim, but from the few games I've watched, I've seen him getting worked down low by guys that in previous seasons would never have a chance. I saw Brandon Bass score easily on him more than a couple times. I saw K-Mart get that offensive rebound and stuff back in the Timmy's face.

What do Spurs fan think? Is Timmy just coasting in the regular season and will amp it up in the playoffs? Is it Timmy's teammates that are putting him in tougher spots defensively? Does he have another injury no one is talking about? Or, has he really lost a little bit at the defensive side of the ball?

[ancestron]

Ok, I asked this question in a game blog a few games ago but didn't get a response. I'm just wondering what's up with Tim Duncan defensively this season. I don't recall another season where a Duncan anchored defense routinely allowed big performances from the opposing main threat on the low post. It's not all on Tim, but from the few games I've watched, I've seen him getting worked down low by guys that in previous seasons would never have a chance. I saw Brandon Bass score easily on him more than a couple times. I saw K-Mart get that offensive rebound and stuff back in the Timmy's face.

What do Spurs fan think? Is Timmy just coasting in the regular season and will amp it up in the playoffs? Is it Timmy's teammates that are putting him in tougher spots defensively? Does he have another injury no one is talking about? Or, has he really lost a little bit at the defensive side of the ball?

Often times Tim's defensive intensity is determined by his foul situation. Sometimes he just has to let his guy score, instead of risking piclking up a dumb foul. Other times are probably a combination of all the things you mentioned, except for injury (as far as we know).

[GSH]

Ok, I asked this question in a game blog a few games ago but didn't get a response. I'm just wondering what's up with Tim Duncan defensively this season. I don't recall another season where a Duncan anchored defense routinely allowed big performances from the opposing main threat on the low post. It's not all on Tim, but from the few games I've watched, I've seen him getting worked down low by guys that in previous seasons would never have a chance. I saw Brandon Bass score easily on him more than a couple times. I saw K-Mart get that offensive rebound and stuff back in the Timmy's face.

What do Spurs fan think? Is Timmy just coasting in the regular season and will amp it up in the playoffs? Is it Timmy's teammates that are putting him in tougher spots defensively? Does he have another injury no one is talking about? Or, has he really lost a little bit at the defensive side of the ball?

The guys are young and good. It's the NBA. You can't judge so much from individual plays like that. The Spurs are giving up the 3rd fewest points in the league, and I'll take my chances with what Duncan is doing this season.

On the offensive end, the Spurs are the 7th worst in the league. The only team worse than them that might make the playoffs is the Nets. Meanwhile, almost all the other top teams in the league are scoring a lot more points per game, compared to last year.

You can really see the difference when you look at the differential between points scored and points given up. Last season the Spurs were #1 in the league, with a differential of +8.4 points. This year the Spurs are #7, with a differential of +4.6 points. That's a HUGE difference, especially if you want to be counted as one of the elite teams in the league. They're about a point worse on defense this year, but most of the difference is on the offensive end.

It's not Duncan's defense that is letting the Spurs down this year. The young guys are going to have their highlight reel plays. It still scores 2 points, just like a 10-footer off the glass.

[bdictjames]

Thanks, Jim.

I said it once, they get two blowout games in a row, good team or not, this team will be pacing itself for the playoffs.

[JamStone]

The guys are young and good. It's the NBA. You can't judge so much from individual plays like that. The Spurs are giving up the 3rd fewest points in the league, and I'll take my chances with what Duncan is doing this season.

It's not Duncan's defense that is letting the Spurs down this year. The young guys are going to have their highlight reel plays. It still scores 2 points, just like a 10-footer off the glass.


I used a couple plays as examples but not for the reason of my comments. Duncan and the Spurs have been lit up by opposing big men a lot this season, at least more so than in previous seasons that I can remember.

-Al Jefferson: 28 points on 11-for-19 FG shooting
-Carlos Boozer: 23 points on 10-for18 FG shooting
-David West: 32 points on 15-for-19 FG shooting
-Al Jefferson: 24 points on 10-for-18 FG shooting
-Zydrunas Ilgauskas: 17 points on 7-for-11 FG shooting
-Rasheed Wallace: 23 points on 9-for-15 FG shooting
-Pau Gasol: 22 points on 8-for-16 FG shooting

Yes, it's the NBA and talent is talent and players get up to play the Spurs. But, maybe I just have a perception in past seasons that Tim Duncan and the Spurs did not get scored on by big men so efficiently and effectively. If this has been the case in previous seasons, then I guess my perception is inaccurate. I was just looking for a Spurs fan perspective as to if they saw this as well, that the interior defense has not been what it used to be, and Duncan has not completely owned the paint defensively as he has in previous seasons. Was just asking. I know what he has been capable of in the past.

[T Park]

The 32 point game, Duncan wasn't guarding West one bit that night.

[loveforthegame]

It's all Finley's fault. We have enough threads dedicated to him saying so. He's sucking so bad it's spread all over the bench. Thankfully it hasn't reached the big 3 yet.

[Jayem]

i think the spurs reign has finally ended. it was fun though, thank you guys for all the good years. 4 rings is pretty damn good. GO SPURS GO 4 EVER!

[JamStone]

The 32 point game, Duncan wasn't guarding West one bit that night.

Ok, that helps explain that in part. But why not? Shouldn't he have been?

[batboy]

I used a couple plays as examples but not for the reason of my comments. Duncan and the Spurs have been lit up by opposing big men a lot this season, at least more so than in previous seasons that I can remember.

-Al Jefferson: 28 points on 11-for-19 FG shooting
-Carlos Boozer: 23 points on 10-for18 FG shooting
-David West: 32 points on 15-for-19 FG shooting
-Al Jefferson: 24 points on 10-for-18 FG shooting
-Zydrunas Ilgauskas: 17 points on 7-for-11 FG shooting
-Rasheed Wallace: 23 points on 9-for-15 FG shooting
-Pau Gasol: 22 points on 8-for-16 FG shooting

Yes, it's the NBA and talent is talent and players get up to play the Spurs. But, maybe I just have a perception in past seasons that Tim Duncan and the Spurs did not get scored on by big men so efficiently and effectively. If this has been the case in previous seasons, then I guess my perception is inaccurate. I was just looking for a Spurs fan perspective as to if they saw this as well, that the interior defense has not been what it used to be, and Duncan has not completely owned the paint defensively as he has in previous seasons. Was just asking. I know what he has been capable of in the past.

We let big men have their game quite often actually. See for example Stoudamire, Amare. Duncan's strength is in help defense against the pick and roll and various other penetration plays. Pop usually doesn't even assign him to ace big men for foul reasons. It's a gambit that usually pays off. The problem is that CP3 is no Steve Nash and can run up the scoreboard all by himself if need be.

If Bynum comes back healthy, I imagine we put Duncan on Gasol and let Bynum have his fun while trying to contain Kobe.

[[email protected]]

they are nervous...
GO SPURS GO :clap :clap

[Agloco]

Like Ive said, we need Bones back. This sad slump started about the time he went down in December.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Like Ive said, we need Bones back. This sad slump started about the time he went down in December.



yeah, that 11 game win streak had a lot to do with Bones :rolleyes

[SpursDynasty]

When the Spurs lose it's because they aren't trying to win.

If it was a different story and the Spurs were losing while putting out a good effort, then we're in trouble.

But I'm honestly and completely not concerned about the Spurs.

Let the Hornets and Rockets go out and make some lucky shots and get 60 wins, the Spurs are focused on staying healthy for the playoffs.

[Indazone]

The reason the Spurs are struggling is because everyone else in the West went out and bought expensive weapons while the Spurs essentially stayed the same. In the arms race of the West, the fact is, the Spurs have lagged the rest. The only upgrade was K. Thomas who has yet to mesh with the Spurs fully.

D. Stoudamire gets an F for his play.

[SpursDynasty]

Dallas and Phoenix got Kidd and Shaq and look how they slumped. They went from 62+ winning teams to being on pace for 50 wins.
The Lakers got Gasol but what about when Bynum comes back. Lots of adjusting to do there.

[Indazone]

Well the Kidd trade will be a bust. The Shaq trade will eventually help the Suns. I think it takes about 3 weeks for them to get used to Shaq and vice versa. You can see they are gelling with the last game they had against the Spurs.

[Indazone]

Guarantee that had the Rockets not gotten a slimmed down healthy Bonzi, Landry, and Scola and gone to war with what they had last year, there is no way the Rockets would have gotten as far as they have with the streak. In fact there would be no streak.

The West is insanely strong and in a world where the rules are survival of the fittest, it's those who are the deepest and strongest of teams that will make it in the end. What the Spurs should have done is make a deal for a Marion type player or bitten the bullet and paid the money for R. Lewis.

[ChumpDumper]

or bitten the bullet and paid the money for R. Lewis.please stay in the realm of that which is actually possible.

[Indazone]

Look all the Spurs have to do is what the Rockets did. Be willing to go over the cap. See who pans out and then trade or cut everyone that's not performing. Fill out the roster with D-leaguers and go back under the cap.

[ChumpDumper]

Look all the Spurs have to do is what the Rockets did. Be willing to go over the cap.The Spurs have been over the cap for years.
See who pans out and then trade or cut everyone that's not performing.The Spurs traded Butler and Udrih
Fill out the roster with D-leaguers and go back under the cap.The Rockets are not under the cap.

With the exception of everything you wrote, that post was spot-on.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

What has happened to stoudamire? The guy just vanished in terms of helping.
He's probably going to be a Nick Van Exel in the PO...

Jacque Vaughn is going to retain his spot it seems.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

You guys should really look at Gerald Green, He's a youth and Pop should be able to develop him nicely. But I guess that's up to spurs management...

[Indazone]

Gerald Green is a headcase. Lack of work effort. Rockets are willing to cut Green and bring in Mike Harris from China. Tells you what they think of Green.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Gerald Green is a headcase. Lack of work effort. Rockets are willing to cut Green and bring in Mike Harris from China. Tells you what they think of Green.

That's Exactly why he should be brought to pop, I don't watch to many spurs games but I know that there have been many people with issues, headcases, and lack of talent that pop has rejuvenated. Think of people like Avery Johnson or Stephen Jackson, Avery was a little guard with not much skill but he was very quick and had a high bball Iq, and Stephen Jackson always acted like a thug but in San Antonio he was a very good player under Pop. There is no reason why Pop won't be able to do the same thing for green.

[BonnerDynasty]

Because they lack heart in repeat years?

They've got the pieces this year. No excuses.

[ChumpDumper]

Green is a summer league project. No one is touching (paying) him now.

[Indazone]

Maybe so, Green has a bad rep as a talented but lazy player who was a thug in high school. No work ethic and expects things to be handed to him on a silver platter. Maybe Pop could work his magic with this kid but I also think he'd be better served by being humbled and playing for a college team or relegated to the D-League to make him prove his worth. He definately needs to be humbled to light a fire under his ass.

[Brutalis]

http://forums.pepipoo.com/style_emoticons/default/duplicate.jpg

[jag]

i think the spurs reign has finally ended. it was fun though, thank you guys for all the good years. 4 rings is pretty damn good. GO SPURS GO 4 EVER!

We're 3rd in the West in the most competitive NBA conference this decade and this means the "reign has finally ended"?

[Brutalis]

We're 3rd in the West in the most competitive NBA conference this decade and this means the "reign has finally ended"?
I didn't want to find out like this.

:depressed