Kidd can't shoot?

[Findog]

He's hitting 57% from three-point land since he joined the Mavericks. Perhaps he gets more open looks when he's surrounded by Dirk, Stack, Jet and Josh?

[robbie380]

He's hitting 57% from three-point land since he joined the Mavericks. Perhaps he gets more open looks when he's surrounded by Dirk, Stack, Jet and Josh?


rafer was shooting well for a bit too.

[Findog]

rafer was shooting well for a bit too.

I've watched enough now to say with confidence that Kidd is a decent three-point shooter. It's his mid-range jumper that blows.

[Findog]

Also, Tyronn Lue was a hell of a pickup for us.

[robbie380]

I've watched enough now to say with confidence that Kidd is a decent three-point shooter. It's his mid-range jumper that blows.


33% is decent but nothing that really helps your team. and you have to expect kidd to hit a cold streak and fall back to that 31%-36% range for 3's. i learned this lesson after getting excited about rafer during the first 2/3's of the streak.

[Flight3107]

Tyronn Lue is the new NVE

[Findog]

33% is decent but nothing that really helps your team. and you have to expect kidd to hit a cold streak and fall back to that 31%-36% range for 3's. i learned this lesson after getting excited about rafer during the first 2/3's of the streak.

I don't expect him to keep hitting at 57%, but one thing I've noticed is that he never takes a bad shot. His shot selection is very good.

[Findog]

Here are some figures about what kind of impact Kidd is having:

Before
FG% 45.9

After
FG%48.0

Before
3% 33.3

After
3% 44.3

Dirk Before
FG% 47.0

Dirk After
FG% 53.0

Dirk Before
3% 28.7

Dirk After
3% 58.1

[Dirk Nowitzki]

He's hitting 57% from three-point land since he joined the Mavericks. Perhaps he gets more open looks when he's surrounded by Dirk, Stack, Jet and Josh?


:rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes at findog. Kidd is just trying to shoot some shots. Those shots he is shoot are lucky flukes! No surprises there findog. He is just pulling shots out of his ass like he is soposed to.

[mavsfan1000]

Kidd should've tried out for the 3 point competition. He is awesome there when his feet are set. He doesn't shoot well off the dribble so I say he should stop taking those shots.

[Matchman]

go to a hawks board and ask what they think about ty lue. this would be a typical response:
"a good shooter who shoots wayyyy too much and thinks he is kobe"

and also, i think the Mavs got themselves too many shooters, it would be logical to package them for a few post players...

[mavsfan1000]

go to a hawks board and ask what they think about ty lue. this would be a typical response:
"a good shooter who shoots wayyyy too much and thinks he is kobe"

and also, i think the Mavs got themselves too many shooters, it would be logical to package them for a few post players...
Nah the Mavs don't need a low post player and it would be a shock to the system to change the offense for a low post player. I feel this team works best on motion offense and running when they can with Kidd's passing. Lue shot 43% from 3 point range with the Hawks. That is a great percentage for a player that is "shooting too much". Dallas needs to surround Kidd with a lot of shooters to get the best out of Kidd. Without Kidd, the shooters don't get enough open shots and without the shooters Kidd's passing skills go to waste. Dallas has some role players in Dampier, Wright, Allen, and George that are good for defense.

[ludda]

i dont think tyrant avery will let Lue be a chucker. Good pickup for the Mavs, at least you don't have to rely on Barea when Kidd goes out. (I dont consider Terry a PG).

[dude1394]

i dont think tyrant avery will let Lue be a chucker. Good pickup for the Mavs, at least you don't have to rely on Barea when Kidd goes out. (I dont consider Terry a PG).

I also don't consider Terry a PG. It's shocking we've done as well as we have without one. He was terribly exposed against GS.

[Findog]

go to a hawks board and ask what they think about ty lue. this would be a typical response:
"a good shooter who shoots wayyyy too much and thinks he is kobe"

and also, i think the Mavs got themselves too many shooters, it would be logical to package them for a few post players...

Lue won't be taking shots over our big guns, his job is to knock down open threes when Dirk gets doubled.

[PhxDog]

Kidd has that wing 3pt set shot he's spent his entire career working on. If he's left wide open, he'll hit at a decent clip, not 57% for more than a few games, but good enough most of the time.

If teams manage to get a defender running at him, he's in trouble. He doesn't like to shoot the setter under duress, and as Findog says, his mid-range game is usually awful.

[DubMcDub]

go to a hawks board and ask what they think about ty lue. this would be a typical response:
"a good shooter who shoots wayyyy too much and thinks he is kobe"

and also, i think the Mavs got themselves too many shooters, it would be logical to package them for a few post players...

Ok, but you think maybe, just maybe, Lue is not going to "shoot too many shots" when he's playing on a team with 2 HoFers and a slew of other talented guys?

Him taking so many shots just might have had something to do with probably being the 3rd or 4th best Hawks player.

[SpursDynasty]

Since Dallas' game is jump shooting + bullshit calls + no defense + love from ESPN, Kidd should fit in just fine.

[DaDakota]

Findog,

Kidd is great for everyone else's shooting on the team, but what is the Mavs record with Kidd, and without him?

You guys have won 4 in a row against the weak sisters of the east at home.....I am still not sold on the trade, though I admire Cuban for taking the risk.
D
D

[mavs>spurs2]

Today, 04:01 AM #18
SpursDynasty
Believe.

Position: Dominant Center
Team: Golden State Warriors
vBookie Cash: $25
Post Count: 1,959

Default Re: Kidd can't shoot?
Since Dallas' game is jump shooting + bullshit calls + no defense + love from ESPN, Kidd should fit in just fine.


What the hell are you doing up at 4 in the morning? The school bus doesn't come around till like 7..

[Gino]

No...Kidd cannot shoot.

[mavs>spurs2]

Kidd can spot up when he's open, but he's no Reggie Miller or Ray Allen off the dribble or off a pick.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Since Dallas' game is jump shooting + bullshit calls + no defense + love from ESPN, Kidd should fit in just fine.

Why are you such an asshole?? :donkey

[dirk4mvp]

Today, 04:01 AM #18
SpursDynasty
Believe.

Position: Dominant Center
Team: Golden State Warriors
vBookie Cash: $25
Post Count: 1,959

Default Re: Kidd can't shoot?
Since Dallas' game is jump shooting + bullshit calls + no defense + love from ESPN, Kidd should fit in just fine.


What the hell are you doing up at 4 in the morning? The school bus doesn't come around till like 7..

He saw this thread last night and it kept him up all night trying to think of something to say.

[monosylab1k]

Meanwhile, Devin Harris is shooting a deadly 40% from the field and a bad ass 25% from 3 point land. Oh, and he's averaging LESS assists in New Jersey than he did in Dallas. That's cuz he's so awesome.

[mavs>spurs2]

We should have a GTG for the next Mav-Spurs game and invite Jeff..I'd love to hear his play by play while we watch the game.

*slams his drink down* GOD DAMNIT! THAT WAS A FUCKING FLUKE SHOT!!!!

[mavsfan1000]

Meanwhile, Devin Harris is shooting a deadly 40% from the field and a bad ass 25% from 3 point land. Oh, and he's averaging LESS assists in New Jersey than he did in Dallas. That's cuz he's so awesome.
Harris came off a bad ankle injury. It will be awhile before he plays at the level he did earlier this year. In particular, his level in January.

[mavsfan1000]

Findog,

Kidd is great for everyone else's shooting on the team, but what is the Mavs record with Kidd, and without him?

You guys have won 4 in a row against the weak sisters of the east at home.....I am still not sold on the trade, though I admire Cuban for taking the risk.
D
D
If you've watched the last 4 games, you would be impressed with Dallas but I'm sure it would be painful for you to admit since you hate Dallas. Winning 4 games in a row and blowing out 4 teams in a row are 2 different things. Dallas just totally destroyed them which is not an easy thing to do and something builds a lot of confidence. Especially that Dallas's bench is getting a ton of points and shooting an incredibly high percentage.

[T Park]

Not tough to guard that

run at him force a mid range, brick, grab the long rebound.

[mavsfan1000]

Not tough to guard that

run at him force a mid range, brick, grab the long rebound.
Yeah but Kidd can pass off the dribble as well. Running Kidd from the 3 point line could break down your defense unless you are really active.

[T Park]

Pass to another shooter whos already covered?

[mavsfan1000]

Pass to another shooter whos already covered?
Someone's got to rotate off their man to stop Kidd from an uncontested layup.

[dude1394]

Yeah...kidd's a pathetic player, I can't understand why the mavs would give up a HOF'er like Devin Harris for him. No matter that their star player is so happy he's almost jumping out of his skin and they've found someone, ANYONE who can throw both a pass into the post and one over the top.

Instead of having Avery yanking the chain all of the time the mavs'll have someone else controlling the pace.

I've watched every single game, been to all home games and when the dirkster found out about kidd coming he lit up like it was christmas.

No longer will have have to be the high scorer, the top rebounder and the teams assist guy all while scoring off the dribble all day long. Now he actually might get open shots in the flow of ball movement. He won't have to force it into the paint and take that pounding. He'll give it out to the kidd and they'll find something going.

I can't understand why dirk would be happy with that..It must be european.

[Findog]

Yeah...kidd's a pathetic player, I can't understand why the mavs would give up a HOF'er like Devin Harris for him. No matter that their star player is so happy he's almost jumping out of his skin and they've found someone, ANYONE who can throw both a pass into the post and one over the top.

Instead of having Avery yanking the chain all of the time the mavs'll have someone else controlling the pace.

I've watched every single game, been to all home games and when the dirkster found out about kidd coming he lit up like it was christmas.

No longer will have have to be the high scorer, the top rebounder and the teams assist guy all while scoring off the dribble all day long. Now he actually might get open shots in the flow of ball movement. He won't have to force it into the paint and take that pounding. He'll give it out to the kidd and they'll find something going.

I can't understand why dirk would be happy with that..It must be european.

First there was the Father and the Holy Ghost...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1316/576651641_bd704b31f1_m.jpghttp://farm2.static.flickr.com/1245/986451694_3cbdb1df88_m.jpg

Then came his only begotten sons...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/2311140387_2caa7227e0_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3240/2311140129_b277ec1d0e_m.jpg

[Obstructed_View]

Harris came off a bad ankle injury. It will be awhile before he plays at the level he did earlier this year. In particular, his level in January.

Yeah, he just held Deron Williams to 11 points on 11 shots while putting up 19 12 and 8. No wonder the Mavericks were so bad with him, and no wonder he and Dirk were such a terrible combination. I don't know why they didn't trade him for a 36 year old point guard years ago, when the difference would have been even more striking.

[mavsfan1000]

Yeah, he just held Deron Williams to 11 points on 11 shots while putting up 19 12 and 8. No wonder the Mavericks were so bad with him, and no wonder he and Dirk were such a terrible combination. I don't know why they didn't trade him for a 36 year old point guard years ago, when the difference would have been even more striking.
Yeah since 1 game is the deciding factor. Dallas would be better off without a point guard that passes. :rolleyes

[Findog]

Yeah, he just held Deron Williams to 11 points on 11 shots while putting up 19 12 and 8. No wonder the Mavericks were so bad with him, and no wonder he and Dirk were such a terrible combination. I don't know why they didn't trade him for a 36 year old point guard years ago, when the difference would have been even more striking.

Deron put 48 on him back in December.

[mavsfan1000]

Deron put 48 on him back in December.
Nah man. Spurs fans will only remember the games Harris shut down his defender. The games where he got torched are irrelevant. Kidd is the worst defender in the nba and Harris is the best defender. Learn.

[monosylab1k]

Yeah, he just held Deron Williams to 11 points on 11 shots while putting up 19 12 and 8. No wonder the Mavericks were so bad with him, and no wonder he and Dirk were such a terrible combination. I don't know why they didn't trade him for a 36 year old point guard years ago, when the difference would have been even more striking.
I guess if he could do that every game the Mavs wouldn't have traded him. If you had a clue about our team and knew what you were talking about, you'd know that this type of performance comes out of Devin Harris maybe twice a month. He's as maddeningly inconsistent as they get, and he's always been like that. Let's not forget him getting torched by Deron Williams earlier in the year, along with Chris Paul and Allen Iverson. Oh, but you didn't see those games, right?

I don't know shit about the Spurs, so I don't critique them constantly like I know what the hell I'm talking about. It's time you do the same with the Mavericks, cuz it's painfully obvious you haven't got a clue.

[DazedAndConfused]

Getting Jason Kidd was the right move for the Mavs. Keeping Avery was the wrong move.

[Findog]

Getting Jason Kidd was the right move for the Mavs. Keeping Avery was the wrong move.

You're probably right about both parts. Our only hope is that he lightens the fuck up like Tom Coughlin did.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Getting Jason Kidd was the right move for the Mavs. Keeping Avery was the wrong move.

I usually disagree with you but you were right on the money right there.

[spurms]

lol @ lue playing with two Hof, avery johnson is one, who is the other?

[dude1394]

lol @ lue playing with two Hof, avery johnson is one, who is the other?

Well if Avery is one then he's playing with three HOF'rs.

[Indazone]

Kidd sucks against teams that actually play good defense

Mar 06 vs. HOU L 98 - 113 30 3 - 6 shooting 1 - 1 3ptrs 6reb 6asts 7pts

Feb 28 @ SAS L 94 - 97 35 3 - 8 shooting 1 - 1 3ptrs 4 reb 4 asts 7 pts

Feb 25 vs. CHI W 102 - 94 40 5 - 7 shooting 1 - 1 3 ptrs 7reb 9asts 11 11 pts

[DaDakota]

The Mavs are not going anywhere, they blew their chance, and the fans know it, but can't admit it.

:D

DD

[The Nba Is Rigged]

The Mavs are not going anywhere, they blew their chance, and the fans know it, but can't admit it.

:D

DD
Yup and the Houston Rockets get out of the first round every year :lol

[mavsfan1000]

The Mavs are not going anywhere, they blew their chance, and the fans know it, but can't admit it.

:D

DD
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s117/ByrdManFly/n203100315_30076523_6756.jpg

[DaDakota]

Hey,

I don't think the Rockets are going to win this year, especially without Yao...and getting out of the first round without Yao would be a huge accomplishment.

So, not a big deal really....

Next year however, that is OUR year baby !!

The Mavs.....their year was the Miami series and last year.....they blew it...window shut.

Buh Bye !

:D

DD

[The Franchise]

He's hitting 57% from three-point land since he joined the Mavericks. Perhaps he gets more open looks when he's surrounded by Dirk, Stack, Jet and Josh?
He has Rafer Alston career numbers so i would look at his hot shooting as an anomaly.

[spurms]

best way to defend kid is give him the open shot, and take away his layups, teams are gonna employ that in the playoffs, kid cant shoot for his life, he's on a lucky streak which dont impress me as much as the rockets, and it will end against a playoff team.

[LB7]

lol @ lue playing with two Hof, avery johnson is one, who is the other?
stupid post

[Findog]

Hey,

I don't think the Rockets are going to win this year, especially without Yao...and getting out of the first round without Yao would be a huge accomplishment.

So, not a big deal really....

Next year however, that is OUR year baby !!

The Mavs.....their year was the Miami series and last year.....they blew it...window shut.

Buh Bye !

:D

DD

Yao Ming has Bill Walton feet and Tracy McGrady...well, let's not go there.

Dirk is 29, Josh is 27. We'll be around for the next few years.

[DaDakota]

Dirk is 29, Josh is 27. We'll be around for the next few years.

Fair enough, Dirk is great and so is Josh, actually I am glad Devin Harris is gone now too, he gave us fits.

And as for injuries, How are Dirk's ankles?

:D
DD

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah since 1 game is the deciding factor. Dallas would be better off without a point guard that passes. :rolleyes
We'll see how much better off they are two years from now when Jason Kidd is out of the league. How many games will Harris have to play to be a deciding factor then?

[Findog]

We'll see how much better off they are two years from now when Jason Kidd is out of the league. How many games will Harris have to play to be a deciding factor then?

The Mavs made the trade for this year and next. Duh Devin Harris is 10 years younger than Kidd.

[DaDakota]

The Mavs made the trade for this year and next. Duh Devin Harris is 10 years younger than Kidd.


So if the Mavs fail this year, as I think they will, will you then think the trade sucks?

DD

[Obstructed_View]

The Mavs made the trade for this year and next. Duh Devin Harris is 10 years younger than Kidd.
Hope it's worth it. Now you have to find someone new to blame when something goes wrong, but maybe nothing will.

[Findog]

So if the Mavs fail this year, as I think they will, will you then think the trade sucks?

DD


Well, that's why they play the games, right? Shit, why even hold the playoffs, since you know how it's gonna go down.

[Obstructed_View]

Well, that's why they play the games, right? Shit, why even hold the playoffs, since you know how it's gonna go down.
Way to answer the question.

[Findog]

Way to answer the question.

The team wasn't going to win a title as is, they hadn't done so with the same nucleus in place for three years. And Kidd is better than Harris, Harris' speed notwithstanding. It gives us a better chance for playoff success this year and next. Kidd's contract comes off the books after next year, so if he continues to play at a high level, then they can resign him to a more cap-friendly contract. If not, they can use the cap space to go after somebody else.

There's no question they shortened their window. As wide open as the West is, they have as good a shot as anybody.

[mavsfan1000]

Kidd is looking really good. Stackhouse actually looks older than Kidd to me when it comes to the movement on the court.

[Holmes_Fans]

We don't even make the playoffs if we don't make this trade. We would of lost the games we did with Kidd during the adjustment, and probably fall against Charlotte or Miami.

[monosylab1k]

There's no question they shortened their window.
Actually they lengthened it by two years. The team as constructed with Devin Harris had no shot at a title. Now they've got a shot.

[monosylab1k]

So if the Mavs fail this year, as I think they will, will you then think the trade sucks?

DD
We'll have to wait another 10 years to see if The Great And Most Holy Devin Harris wins a title with New Jersey before we know the answer.

[Findog]

Actually they lengthened it by two years. The team as constructed with Devin Harris had no shot at a title. Now they've got a shot.

Good point. I have no idea where people get this idea that Devin Harris > Jason Kidd, or that Kidd can't defend. Go check out the Rockets/Lakers game blog.

[DaDakota]

No, the point was that he was good enough to play on a team that got to the NBA finals and should have beaten the heat, then last year they won 67 games with him as a key contributor.

If anything, the Rockets streak should prove how important chemistry etc is to winning.

Josh Howard and he were best friends...that hurts their chemistry.

And you don't make major trades when your team won SIXTY SEVEN games and just had one bad matchup in the first round.

Well, you do if you are panicking I guess.

DD

[monosylab1k]

Good point. I have no idea where people get this idea that Devin Harris > Jason Kidd, or that Kidd can't defend. Go check out the Rockets/Lakers game blog.
It's these arrogant Spurs fans who think that just because they root for the best team of the past decade, that that suddenly gives them omnipotence regarding the rest of the teams in the NBA as well.

In Spur Fan world, their team winning titles = obviously they know more about the Mavericks than people who, um, root for and watch the Mavericks.

[monosylab1k]

No, the point was that he was good enough to play on a team that got to the NBA finals and should have beaten the heat, then last year they won 67 games with him as a key contributor.

If anything, the Rockets streak should prove how important chemistry etc is to winning.

Josh Howard and he were best friends...that hurts their chemistry.

And you don't make major trades when your team won SIXTY SEVEN games and just had one bad matchup in the first round.

Well, you do if you are panicking I guess.

DD

Oh, now a 22 game winning streak means you have omnipotence as well, right?

I don't go claiming to know more about the Rockets than you do, so don't be a fucking prick and act like you know more about the Mavericks than Findog or I, or anybody who actually follows the Mavericks.

The Mavericks with Devin Harris were not going to win a title. If you watched all the games this season the way MAVERICKS FANS did, then you'd have seen that. Dirk's body language and attitude has been complete shit all year, because he knew this team needed a shakeup. After the trade, he's played with a fire and enthusiasm that I haven't seen in over a year. And this team, regardless of who is the point guard, lives and dies with the performance of Dirk. Bottom Line. If Dirk ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

Enjoy your 22+ game winning streak, but don't be so fucking arrogant about it that suddenly you think you're an expert on a team that you don't even follow, even more of an expert than diehard fans of that team.

[Findog]

No, the point was that he was good enough to play on a team that got to the NBA finals and should have beaten the heat, then last year they won 67 games with him as a key contributor.

If anything, the Rockets streak should prove how important chemistry etc is to winning.

Josh Howard and he were best friends...that hurts their chemistry.

And you don't make major trades when your team won SIXTY SEVEN games and just had one bad matchup in the first round.

Well, you do if you are panicking I guess.

DD

67 wins was last year, and as was shown, ultimately meaningless if you can't win a title. And we ultimately didn't get it done in the last two series. Josh is a professional, he's healthy again and starting to click with Kidd. He didn't become a complete basketcase when we traded his boy Quis to Indiana and it won't happen now.

When the game slows down late in the 4th quarter of a playoff game, you need to be able to get Dirk easy looks instead of having him work his ass off all game long to get good looks.

[monosylab1k]

I'd love Rocket Fan to find me some hard evidence that Josh Howard & Devin Harris are best friends. Because the Dallas Morning News said that Harris was his best friend ON THE TEAM. That's it. Best friend on the team. It was tough for Josh but he got over it.

[Findog]

It's these arrogant Spurs fans who think that just because they root for the best team of the past decade, that that suddenly gives them omnipotence regarding the rest of the teams in the NBA as well.

In Spur Fan world, their team winning titles = obviously they know more about the Mavericks than people who, um, root for and watch the Mavericks.

I think I know who you're specifically referring to, somebody who embodies these traits more than the rest of them: OV.

[Findog]

Oh, now a 22 game winning streak means you have omnipotence as well, right?

I don't go claiming to know more about the Rockets than you do, so don't be a fucking prick and act like you know more about the Mavericks than Findog or I, or anybody who actually follows the Mavericks.

The Mavericks with Devin Harris were not going to win a title. If you watched all the games this season the way MAVERICKS FANS did, then you'd have seen that. Dirk's body language and attitude has been complete shit all year, because he knew this team needed a shakeup. After the trade, he's played with a fire and enthusiasm that I haven't seen in over a year. And this team, regardless of who is the point guard, lives and dies with the performance of Dirk. Bottom Line. If Dirk ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

Enjoy your 22+ game winning streak, but don't be so fucking arrogant about it that suddenly you think you're an expert on a team that you don't even follow, even more of an expert than diehard fans of that team.

These numbers are worth posting again, pre-Miami game:


Before
FG% 45.9

After
FG%48.0

Before
3% 33.3

After
3% 44.3

Dirk Before
FG% 47.0

Dirk After
FG% 53.0

Dirk Before
3% 28.7

Dirk After
3% 58.1

[Findog]

I'd love Rocket Fan to find me some hard evidence that Josh Howard & Devin Harris are best friends. Because the Dallas Morning News said that Harris was his best friend ON THE TEAM. That's it. Best friend on the team. It was tough for Josh but he got over it.

If Josh Howard were that weak, he'd be slitting his wrists over Quisy going to the Pacers. That was his boy.

[monosylab1k]

I have an opinion of every team in the NBA, but I'm not going to be arrogant enough to think I know more about them than the actual fans of the team.

You won't see me arguing the impact of Ime Udoka cuz I don't follow the Spurs closely enough to know his full impact, and frankly, I don't give a shit. I'm not going to act like I'm a bigger source of knowlege regarding Ime Udoka than any Spurs fans.

So where the hell do they get off thinking they know more about Devin Harris & the mentality of the Mavericks than Mavs fans?

Oh yeah, forgot, FOUR RINGS BITCH!

[Findog]

I have an opinion of every team in the NBA, but I'm not going to be arrogant enough to think I know more about them that the actual fans of the team.

You won't see me arguing the impact of Ime Udoka cuz I don't follow the Spurs closely enough to know his full impact, and frankly, I don't give a shit. I'm not going to act like I'm a bigger source of knowlege regarding Ime Udoka than any Spurs fans.

So where the hell do they get off thinking they know more about Devin Harris & the mentality of the Mavericks than Mavs fans?

Oh yeah, forgot, FOUR RINGS BITCH!

I agree, I have opinions too, but I might watch 7 or 8 Rockets games all year long...so I'll defer to DaDakota about Bobby Jackson's ability to fit in and contribute to Houston's rotation because that's a little too inside baseball for me when it comes to other teams.

[DaDakota]

So where the hell do they get off thinking they know more about Devin Harris & the mentality of the Mavericks than Mavs fans?



You have got to be kidding me....lol

I mean, how could anyone know anything about your team but you.......COME ON.....

I mean, I see you guys talking about Houston. Don't get so testy......just because I have a different opinion than you.

And I would ask FinDog to bet, but we all know how that would end up...right finny?

SHEESH !

DD

[endrity]

What is even more arrogant from the Spurs fans is that in a year where there are 9 teams who have a possible chance of winning the West they judge the Mavs trade by how it matches up with them. Giveb how much the Spurs are sucking lately, it's even more silly that the Mavs should worry exclusively about the Spurs.

And again, from what I saw in the previous game, Kidd or no Kidd a Mavs-Spurs game will always be close. Every matchup problem the Spurs have with us starts with Dirk, and he is playing as good as ever right now.

It would be just as silly of me to say that the K.Thomas trade is worthless cause he isn't gonna cover Dirk (which is true by the way) when I clearely can see that he was brought here to handle the other big froncurts of the west: Bynum/Gasol, Amare/Shaq, Chandler/West/, Boozer/Okur, Camby/Martin (who seems fully healthy by the way). It's a huge burden to ask Duncan to do this all the time, and Oberto isn't the best of defenders anyway.

[monosylab1k]

You have got to be kidding me....lol

I mean, how could anyone know anything about your team but you.......COME ON.....

I mean, I see you guys talking about Houston. Don't get so testy......just because I have a different opinion than you.

And I would ask FinDog to bet, but we all know how that would end up...right finny?

SHEESH !

DD
There's a difference between having an opinion and being a dick who thinks he knows more about a team than the actual fans of the team.

I have opinions on the Rockets, I state those opinions, but I don't go off acting as if I know more about possible playoff rotations and how many minutes Carl Landry should get than any Rockets fan.

You can have your opinion, but your air of superiority due to your team's 21 game regular season winning streak is retarded.

[DaDakota]

When did I say I know more than him?

I believe the Kidd trade was a mistake and listed my reasons....you are just being a tad bit oversensitive.

And, I also was commenting on their fans saying it was done for this year, so I still have not gotten an answer from them that if it FAILS this year...as I think it will....then does that mean they believe the trade was a mistake.

I don't have any air of superiority, wtf are you talking about.....I am enjoying the streak fo-sure....but what does that have to do with me thinking the Kidd trade was a bad one?

Kids...SHEESH !!

DD

[endrity]

When did I say I know more than him?

I believe the Kidd trade was a mistake and listed my reasons....you are just being a tad bit oversensitive.

And, I also was commenting on their fans saying it was done for this year, so I still have not gotten an answer from them that if it FAILS this year...as I think it will....then does that mean they believe the trade was a mistake.

I don't have any air of superiority, wtf are you talking about.....I am enjoying the streak fo-sure....but what does that have to do with me thinking the Kidd trade was a bad one?

Kids...SHEESH !!

DD

It is a failure only if we would win with Harris. It seemed like we weren't going to, obviously we will never know for sure, and it seems like we are playing better. On those basis, it's hard to say it's even close to a failure. It might turn to be a success IF we actually make a huge run this year, which I am really starting to believe we will.

[DaDakota]

It is a failure only if we would win with Harris. It seemed like we weren't going to, obviously we will never know for sure, and it seems like we are playing better. On those basis, it's hard to say it's even close to a failure. It might turn to be a success IF we actually make a huge run this year, which I am really starting to believe we will.

Endrity,

I just think that Cuban over reacted to one playoff loss to a hot team. The Mavs were in the finals 2 years ago, and won 67 games last year, why screw that chemistry up?

And honestly Devin Harris gave fits to a lot of WC teams because of his quickness and defense on the perimeter, when is the last time you saw Jason Kidd draw a charge?

The Mavs were contenders before the trade, and are still good now, but I just don't think they needed to make that move, they were already one of the favorites to win it all IMHO.

I think it was a massive risk......I am not saying that Harris is better than Kidd, I am saying the team was better with Harris and Diop than with Kidd....at least IMHO.

DD

[Shank]

Endrity,

I just think that Cuban over reacted to one playoff loss to a hot team. The Mavs were in the finals 2 years ago, and won 67 games last year, why screw that chemistry up?

And honestly Devin Harris gave fits to a lot of WC teams because of his quickness and defense on the perimeter, when is the last time you saw Jason Kidd draw a charge?

The Mavs were contenders before the trade, and are still good now, but I just don't think they needed to make that move, they were already one of the favorites to win it all IMHO.

I think it was a massive risk......I am not saying that Harris is better than Kidd, I am saying the team was better with Harris and Diop than with Kidd....at least IMHO.

DD

They also received some good, serviceable pieces in Allen and Wright. Now, Magloire is terrible right now, but the pick-up of Lue seems to been working out nicely. None of these pieces would have come together if it weren't for the trade. As it stands, the bench and the 2nd lineup is stronger than it was (Lue, Terry, Bass, Wright/George and Allen). The team as a whole got stronger, especially mentally, after this move was made. For any big trade, you have to give it a couple years to see how things pan out, but as it stands it's been good so far.

[Findog]

Kidd, Lue, Allen and Wright > Harris and Diop.

Mavs are better.

[Shank]

Also, would a team of:

Harris
Terry
Dirk
Howard
Dampier
w/bench of Bass, Stack, Diop, George and Hassell

Beat:
Kidd
Stack
Howard
Dirk
Dampier
w/ bench of Lue, Bass, Wright/George and Allen?

Likely not, especially if you factor into how much better Dirk-B has become now that Kidd is on his team.

[endrity]

First of all, I am happy you admit it was one bad matchup that had been following us for two years even before the playoffs.

The talent of the team was unquestionable, but the body language wasn't there. All you have to do is look at how Dirk is playing. Those guys were starting to tune out Avery as well, so the future wasn't looking that bright.

Kidd doesn't draw charges, but the man has his hand on any ball within the painted area. He steals, deflects, and starts the fast break in a way Harris couldn't. Harris was a bit better as a defender on fast guards, Kidd is better on the big guards. But Kidd is a much better team defender. And this team is playing great defense right now.

Many people have agreed that losing Diop hurts. Not because he was better than Damp, only silly Spurs fans say that. Damp is one of the best post defenders/rebounders in the leauge. But it hurts our depth. Hopefully the new additions can make up for it.

It was a risk, but it seems like it's paying off. We have the same winning percentage now that we did before the trade. It's hard to say that the team was better with Harris. All signs point out, to this current team being better with Kidd.

Again, only the playoffs will say that for sure.

[Findog]

It seems the main rationale against the trade is that Harris is 10 years younger, is a better defender against quicker guards Dallas is likely to see in the playoffs, and the Mavs gave up valuable interior defense with Diop at a time when the West frontlines got bigger.

Harris is younger -- Dallas is going for a title this year and next, they're not worried about what Devin is going to be doing 5 years from now. Given the cap space they'll be getting when Kidd's contract comes off the books, they'll have the funds to either resign him at a lower price or get his replacement.

Harris is a better defender against quicker guards -- Harris has been lit up just as bad by Parker, Paul and Williams as Kidd. His defensive skills have been wildly overrated.

Diop only played 10 minutes a game anyways. They can make up what he gave them with a center by committee of Dampier, Allen, Bass and Dirk.

[dude1394]

Endrity,

I just think that Cuban over reacted to one playoff loss to a hot team. The Mavs were in the finals 2 years ago, and won 67 games last year, why screw that chemistry up?

And honestly Devin Harris gave fits to a lot of WC teams because of his quickness and defense on the perimeter, when is the last time you saw Jason Kidd draw a charge?

The Mavs were contenders before the trade, and are still good now, but I just don't think they needed to make that move, they were already one of the favorites to win it all IMHO.

I think it was a massive risk......I am not saying that Harris is better than Kidd, I am saying the team was better with Harris and Diop than with Kidd....at least IMHO.

DD
I understand this is what you think but it's wrong. It wasn't even that massive a risk imo. Harris does not appear to be the point guard that we needed to get us out of an isolation mode offense. His playmaking just was not good enough to do so. The benefit that the Spurs had was ginobbli who could make plays with the ball as well. They also DID have a low-post threat to throw it to in Duncan, the mavs do not and will not. Dirk can play in the low-post, as well as josh, kidd...but they weren't going to make their living there.

We needed a lot more ball movement and we needed a captain of the team, that is not what devin was going to provide.

The "easy" thing to do was nothing while saying that we won 67 games last year. We won that in spite of atrocious point guard play. Dirk was just that good for the last two years. Even though just about every basket was contested he still made them.

The draft picks are fodder, diop was a benefit but he was only getting mop-up minutes behind bass and hassell/ager were junk.

We got:
- HOF point guard who already runs the team. And will probably not be hurt again this year unlike (imo) devin will be. Knock on wood for both.
- Two better bench players in Malik Allen (offensively vs diop) and Wright (anything versus Trenton Hassell)
- A backup point in Lue who we wouldn't have gotten without Kidd in the lineup.

At the end of the games we won't be just tossing the ball to dirk and saying he there big fella win it for us willya'. It will be dirk AND kidd's team. Dirk's been shouldering this thing long enough imo.

Let's say that the spurs could trade parker and duncans' shooting percentage and interest level would go up 10points. Assuming they've never won a championship?? Would you do it? Probably...

Again the EASY thing to do is nothing, the ballsy thing to do was this trade.

[Findog]

I don't know why Dallas' regular-season record from a year ago is relevant at all. Yeah, it was a fun ride while it was going on, but it meant jack shit after losing to Golden State, and Dirk would be the first person to tell you that. Their record this year isn't as good, because teams are copying the approach that the Warriors took. When the League has figured you out, you either execute better or get different personnel.

[DaDakota]

I appreciate the tone of the last few posts, it is a reasonable discussion and that is all I ever want.

I can see how you guys believe it was a good trade, and how it opened up room for Lue etc.....

I guess we shall have to wait and see, we had Lue in Houston, and we unloaded him a couple of years ago, he was not that impressive, but it could have been another JVG situation, where he just did not fit into his role in Houston.

I think the Mavs are still in the race, but my whole thing is that they were already in the race before the trade....

However, if you guys are saying that the team is turning on Avery and that Kidd was brought in to help mend the fences, then I concede it might have been worth the risk.

I guess time will tell, but IMHO, it was a panic move.

DD

[Agloco]

He's hitting 57% from three-point land since he joined the Mavericks. Perhaps he gets more open looks when he's surrounded by Dirk, Stack, Jet and Josh?


And over his entire career? You're saying he simply wasn't surrounded by the right pieces eh? Misunderstood so to speak......

Perhaps at this pace we'll get a peek at him on both Saturday and Sunday at next years All-Star extravaganza. :lol

[Findog]

And over his entire career? You're saying he simply wasn't surrounded by the right pieces eh? Misunderstood so to speak......

Perhaps at this pace we'll get a peek at him on both Saturday and Sunday at next years All-Star extravaganza. :lol

I haven't seen him take a bad shot yet. His shot selection is excellent, he knows he's not the greatest jumpshooter and he picks his spots carefully. As stated earlier, his 3-point shot from the wings is pretty reliable. He tends to brick anything mid-range though.

[monosylab1k]

I don't know why Dallas' regular-season record from a year ago is relevant at all.
All I heard last year was "all those wins don't mean shit unless you win it all". All I hear this year is "you won 67 games last year, why trade them away!"

It's one or the other, Spur Fan & Rocket Fan can't have it both ways when talking about Dallas. The Mavericks with Devin Harris failed, bottom line, and would have continued to fail. A shakeup was necessary. Will it work? Nobody knows, and honestly I have my doubts. But the trade had to happen.

[dude1394]

Something else on this line from a local writer of sport. David Lord..
http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=334


The biggest plus is that Kidd has brought the leadership intangibles this team has needed. Harris may continue for many years to be an effective scoring guard who handles the ball, but we must recognize that he - while sometimes electric and a very fine player - was a long ways away from becoming a floor general. Those PER stats that so many touted to dis this trade can measure a player's offensive impact, but what has this Mavs team needed most, one more scorer, or a leader? Kidd's that leader, and we feel that's the biggest reason why his impact has been and will continue to be transcendent on this Mavs group.

Second, while we acknowledge that Kidd is older, in the next few years can we say with any certainty that Harris will play more games? No. In the last few seasons, it is the older Kidd rather than the younger Harris who has been more reliable. And in our estimation, now that the Mavs have him, aren't they likely to keep Kidd for multiple years rather than one or two? If the Mavs can end up with 4 or 5 years of this sort of play from Kidd, then no matter what Harris does, it will be seen as a great trade for Dallas. And we like the odds on that outcome.

Third, while Harris may be the more effective scorer, Kidd is an impact player who changes the whole dynamic of the game. His ability to see and make passes to players away from the ball makes the defense defend all five players, not just the one or two closest to the ball. With Kidd the Mavs gained something they've wanted for several years: the ability to score in the paint, given his ability to find the open man near the basket.

How about losing pieces like Diop and the draft picks? We hated to see Diop go, but we have to admit that in Avery's pecking order, he wasn't going to be a factor anyhow. The same applies to the picks: hate to lose them. But to go from Harris to Kidd, from a scorer to an impact player who can provide leadership, it was worth it.

[monosylab1k]

I appreciate the tone of the last few posts, it is a reasonable discussion and that is all I ever want.

oh really? cuz I saw a bunch of bullshit and untrue claims...


The Mavs.....their year was the Miami series and last year.....they blew it...window shut.

Buh Bye !


Josh Howard and he were best friends...that hurts their chemistry.


And I would ask FinDog to bet, but we all know how that would end up...right finny?

But I do appreciate the tone of your posts after I called you out.

[Bruno]

Kidd >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harris.

To me, it makes no doubt that Dallas is a way better team after the trade than before it. The loss of Harris and Diop will hurt Mavs in certain matchups but Kidd's talent could overcome that.

Another downside of this trade is that it reduced Mavs Championship window. In 2009, Mavs will have a big hole at the PG spot. They will have to find a starting quality PG with only the MLE available or hope that a 37 years old Kidd can still be efficient enough to be a starting PG.

[DaDakota]

oh really? cuz I saw a bunch of bullshit and untrue claims...

But I do appreciate the tone of your posts after I called you out.
Those are just opinions and fairly tame as well.

But they are all 100% accurate.

;)

I keeed...I keeed.

DD

[Obstructed_View]

Kidd, Lue, Allen and Wright > Harris and Diop.

Mavs are better.
Truthfully, one of the best parts of that trade seems to be the combination of getting Kidd and getting rid of Diop, because I've never seen Dampier play better without wearing a Warriors jersey.

Dirk and Harris were a great combination, but the way things were heading it looks like Harris was destined for Beno status as long as AJ was the coach, and judging by the revisionist history from the people that supposedly know the most about the Mavs (some of those singing Harris' praises since the 2006 playoffs), it looks like the fans were turning on him anyway. Barea made a good case early to be the point guard of the future, and he can learn more from Kidd than he would have from Harris. Since the Mavericks were dominant for the year and a half that Harris was healthy, I'm not sure how he deserves all the blame for two embarassing playoff failures.

I contend that Kidd isn't much of a step up, but he's been shooting great and his team defense has been very good, and the infusion of energy while getting rid of someone everyone was starting to hate makes it a great trade. Harris wasn't part of the nucleus of the Mavs, and adding a healthy Kidd to a Mavs team with some confidence can be dangerous in the playoffs.

Kidd's age means they have to win now to make the trade worth it, even if Devin Harris doesn't continue to develop

[sribb43]

Mavs needed a heart transplant, and thats what J-Kidd was...he brought new life to what was a dead team

[Obstructed_View]

Mavs needed a heart transplant, and thats what J-Kidd was...he brought new life to what was a dead team
The implication that Devin Harris is the reason the team had no heart. I'm sure Dirk, Josh, Jerry, Jason and Avery are all relieved that they got their slates wiped clean with one trade.

[Agloco]

All I heard last year was "all those wins don't mean shit unless you win it all". All I hear this year is "you won 67 games last year, why trade them away!"

It's one or the other, Spur Fan & Rocket Fan can't have it both ways when talking about Dallas. The Mavericks with Devin Harris failed, bottom line, and would have continued to fail. A shakeup was necessary. Will it work? Nobody knows, and honestly I have my doubts. But the trade had to happen.

Its definitely a matter of perspective. Ask the Timberwolves or the Bobcats if going to the Finals and following up with a 67 win season is failure.

I think the expectations were a bit unreasonable here. Time is what was needed, not haste. The world will never know though......

[Findog]

The implication that Devin Harris is the reason the team had no heart. I'm sure Dirk, Josh, Jerry, Jason and Avery are all relieved that they got their slates wiped clean with one trade.

I don't think Devin is being made the scapegoat for the entire team's problems. Truth be told, they wanted Kidd for what he brought. They were alternately willing to part with Jerry Stackhouse and Devean George as opposed to Trenton Hassell and Keith Van Horn's expiring to get him here. Putting aside salaries and what New Jersey wanted/needed in return, I would've parted with Terry and paired Harris with Kidd as a starting backcourt in an ideal world.

[ludda]

The implication that Devin Harris is the reason the team had no heart. I'm sure Dirk, Josh, Jerry, Jason and Avery are all relieved that they got their slates wiped clean with one trade.

I think Scribb is just saying the Mavs needed a new approach, especially since they had two consecutive historic playoff failures.

IMO, for the Mavs, the real loss is Diop, not Harris. Kidd IMO is a big upgrade over Harris OVERALL. (But then again, I've always liked Kidd's game and never got the hype over the Flopper).

[mavsfan1000]

I think Scribb is just saying the Mavs needed a new approach, especially since they had two consecutive historic playoff failures.

IMO, for the Mavs, the real loss is Diop, not Harris. Kidd IMO is a big upgrade over Harris OVERALL. (But then again, I've always liked Kidd's game and never got the hype over the Flopper).
Diop is not that big of loss. Malik Allen has been as equally effective as Diop overall. He brings hard fouls, rebounding, and a mid range shot. He is like what Kurt Thomas does for the Spurs. Lue does a lot of things Harris does in case we need that speedy guard out there.

[ludda]

Diop was great defensively. I've never watched Allen so I don't know, but he doesn't he lack Diop's size? If so, that could hurt in certain matchups, esp in the West. And the Mavs are still relying on the play of Erica for the most part...

[mavsfan1000]

Diop was great defensively. I've never watched Allen so I don't know, but he doesn't he lack Diop's size? If so, that could hurt in certain matchups, esp in the West. And the Mavs are still relying on the play of Erica for the most part...
Erick Dampier has been awesome. He is clearly better than Diop ever was. Diop is a foul machine and can't score on the other end. With Allen out there, we get much better spacing in the halfcourt and he is a solid defender. He is 6'10 btw so not really undersized.

[Findog]

Allen for 10 minutes a game versus Diop for 10 minutes a game is pretty much a wash. It's not going to be the difference between winning and losing a game, much less a series.

[mavsfan1000]

Seriously those that think that Allen is a liability is going to be surprised. He is a much better defender and shooter than I thought. He can drive against slow centers as well. He is a positional defender while Diop tries to block everything and gets a bunch of fouls. He is much better than Bass as a defender.

[Obstructed_View]

The improvement in Damp makes up for any possible downside from losing Diop. It opens the window pretty wide if he can keep it up through the playoffs.

[dude1394]

The implication that Devin Harris is the reason the team had no heart. I'm sure Dirk, Josh, Jerry, Jason and Avery are all relieved that they got their slates wiped clean with one trade.

Well I disagree with the heart transplant, they needed a head transplant from what I saw. They needed someone who would make the right basketball play at the end of games. Devin will make a great drive to the hoop and force it into duncan for example ...OR...finish...or not..

But he didn't necessarily make the right basketball decisions for the team, he had one speed...fast.... And that's good. He also had plenty of stones, in fact I thought he was pretty unflappable and courageous.

But avery was calling way too many plays when devin was running the team, and he needed to it seemed. When he didn't they struggled. Kidd is going to run the team...period. He'll also usually make the right basketball decision and not the same one every time.

The team has had plenty of "heart" but not a lot of smarts from what I saw and really lacked the ability to take advantage of someone throwing something different at them.

[dude1394]

Diop is not that big of loss. Malik Allen has been as equally effective as Diop overall. He brings hard fouls, rebounding, and a mid range shot. He is like what Kurt Thomas does for the Spurs. Lue does a lot of things Harris does in case we need that speedy guard out there.

Maybe...I like Malik because he's certainly a big who can shoot and that's always pretty good to have. He does seem pretty rejuvenated. I like him and bass on the second unit with jason, lue, (devean/wright). That group will get after it a little bit (except possibly jet) and they can score.

But guarding the bucket..and getting the tough rebound...I'm not so sure about Malik. We'll see. I like him better as a center than Bass, but I liked having Diop in there when needed, we'll miss him I think.

[dude1394]

Seriously those that think that Allen is a liability is going to be surprised. He is a much better defender and shooter than I thought. He can drive against slow centers as well. He is a positional defender while Diop tries to block everything and gets a bunch of fouls. He is much better than Bass as a defender.

Well I haven't seen him put it on the floor at all, but that's okay. He's really a good spot-up shooter. So if he can play some decent center minutes (if you think small-center) he's a good.