The Spurs look like the Hakeem Rockets at the end of their run

[DaDakota]

When I watch the Spurs these days I see a team that is very skilled, but a lot of the players look very old.

It kind of reminds me of when my team the Rockets won with Hakeem and tried to milk another championship or two out of the team by bringing in Pippen, or Barkley etc...

It was veteran's city back then, and it never quite panned out due to younger more athletic teams taking it to them.

The Spurs seem to be doing a similar thing.

Yes, Parker and Ginobli are still relatively young, and Duncan is no dinosaur, but the rest of the team is looking ancient.

Stoudamire, Bowen, Finley, Horry, Thomas....

It just looks all too familiar...

I still think you guys are the team to beat, but the margin for the Spurs has shrunk considerably.

You guys need some quality youth to re-energize the big 3.

DD

[Findog]

Almost all of those old guys come off their books this summer. The Spurs cap situation is great and their Big Three will keep them in title contention for another 3 years.

[DaDakota]

Just because they come off the books does not mean they will be able to replace their talent with equal or near equal younger guys.

I do think them owning the Austin Toros is a big benefit, but they need to get younger and more athletic surrounding the big three, or their run is going to end fairly fast.

It may already be over, and we just don't know it yet.

DD

[BonnerDynasty]

Keep in mind Duncan still holds back a lot until the playoffs.

[duncan228]

Keep in mind Duncan still holds back a lot until the playoffs.

Maybe not a lot, but he's a different animal when the Playoffs start.

[ChumpDumper]

Why do newbie rocketfans feel the need to give us advice here?

I'll tell them what they look like to me:

frontrunners

[michaelwcho]

It kind of reminds me of when my team the Rockets won with Hakeem and tried to milk another championship or two out of the team by bringing in Pippen, or Barkley etc...

DD

It reminds you of the days when the Rockets core was extremely old although our core is still in their prime and only our role players are old?

[Russ]

When I watch the Spurs these days I see a team that is very skilled, but a lot of the players look very old.
The average of the Spurs' core is younger than the average age of the Rockets' core at the time you're referring to. That's what counts, not the age of the add-on players. Why? Because old add-on guys usually overperform in the playoffs compared to younger role players.

Hit the "save" feature on your post and let it age like a fine wine. About 4-5 years should do. :)

[FromWayDowntown]

It reminds you of the days when the Rockets core was extremely old although our core is still in their prime and only our role players are old?

That's my thought -- it's not at all like the Hakeem Rockets at the end of their run, if only because the Spurs' best players are all still in their relative primes (at least). The Rockets declined in that era because their best players were old and because they surrounded their great old players with other old good players (and Matt Maloney).

[DaDakota]

Hakeem was not that much Older than Duncan, maybe 1 or 2 years....and the Rockets did still reach the WC finals..but they never could quite get back to the top due to age.

I see you guys saying Duncan will pick it up, and he certainly has, I just see a team that is beginning to show it's age, and wear and tear from all those playoff games...etc.

DD

[T Park]

Hakeem was not that much Older than Duncan, maybe 1 or 2 years....and the Rockets did still reach the WC finals..but they never could quite get back to the top due to age.

I see you guys saying Duncan will pick it up, and he certainly has, I just see a team that is beginning to show it's age, and wear and tear from all those playoff games...etc.

DD


Hakeem relied alot on athleticism on some of his moves

the dream shake, up and unders.

Duncan doesn't

Another huge difference.

[T Park]

BTW Duncan is 30 or 31 and I believe Olajuwon was 35 or 36 at the time your indicating.

So once again, way off.

[Russ]

Hakeem was not that much Older than Duncan, maybe 1 or 2 years....
Duncan and Hakeem play entirely differrent types of games in the post. When you think back on how Hakeem aged, think Shaq. Similar type big men -- big boned but athletic and powerful. Quick moves imposed on a big frame over years of work. Barkley, too.

When you think Duncan, remember Abdul-Jabbar -- same smooth, graceful, efficient game. Not quick power moves like Hakeem or Shaq. Longer shelf life.

[majinkoola]

BTW Duncan is 30 or 31 and I believe Olajuwon was 35 or 36 at the time your indicating.

So once again, way off.

Duncan is 31 and will be 32 in a month. Let's not exaggerate mmmmk?

[DazedAndConfused]

I think there is some truth to what this Rocket fan is saying. If the Spurs can barely survive a grueling March, how on earth are they going to make it out of potential 7 game series in every round till the Finals? The Spurs are no longer the front runners in the WC.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think there is some truth to what this Rocket fan is saying. If the Spurs can barely survive a grueling March, how on earth are they going to make it out of potential 7 game series in every round till the Finals? The Spurs are no longer the front runners in the WC.

They weren't the front runners in the West in March of 2007, either.

[ChumpDumper]

Duncan is 31 and will be 32 in a month. Let's not exaggerate mmmmk?It wasn't exaggerating. Let's not be a douchebag.

[DaDakota]

I still see the Spurs as the front runner, most experience, and Manu, Parker and Duncan, I am just saying from the outside it looks like age is creeping up on them.

Duncan no longer requires a double team each game, and that is a big sign.

DD

[ChumpDumper]

I think there is some truth to what this Rocket fan is saying. If the Spurs can barely survive a grueling March, how on earth are they going to make it out of potential 7 game series in every round till the Finals? The Spurs are no longer the front runners in the WC.Fans of other teams are the frontrunners.

[T Park]

I think there is some truth to what this Rocket fan is saying. If the Spurs can barely survive a grueling March, how on earth are they going to make it out of potential 7 game series in every round till the Finals? The Spurs are no longer the front runners in the WC.


Be gone already.

[FromWayDowntown]

Duncan is 31 and will be 32 in a month. Let's not exaggerate mmmmk?

Sure, but Olajuwon was 34 during the Rockets' last deep playoff run. You can't tell me that there's no difference between a 34-year old big man who relies on athleticism and a barely 32-year old big man who's game has very little to do with athleticism.

[T Park]

Duncan no longer requires a double team each game, and that is a big sign.

Your on crack :lol

[ChumpDumper]

I still see the Spurs as the front runner, most experience, and Manu, Parker and Duncan, I am just saying from the outside it looks like age is creeping up on them.

Duncan no longer requires a double team each game, and that is a big sign.

DDWe hear the same shit every year.

It's a big sign.

[T Park]

Kurt Thomas is doing fine. Finley is prob the only one and Horry that I'd say is showing their age. Although Horry's game last night suggests otherwise.

[DaDakota]

We hear the same shit every year.

It's a big sign.

Yes, true, people have been waiting on the Spurs to start showing their age, and they continue to just march on.....

However, for some reason, this year seems different to me....I live in Austin and watch a ton of their games, and I just don't see them having the same dominance as in years past, and other teams are able to single cover Duncan.....

Manu and Parker are the 2 guys playing at their peak, Duncan is great, but seems to take a back seat, kinda like how Robinson did when Duncan was younger...

I just think that for the first time, the Spurs are vulnerable.....

DD

[jag]

Almost all of those old guys come off their books this summer. The Spurs cap situation is great and their Big Three will keep them in title contention for another 3 years.

I also expect Splitter and Mahinmi to be on the roster next year. We will still have vets, but we'll have young talent around them for the first time in awhile.

[Harry Callahan]

The bigs will get considerably younger and more athletic next year with the two 2 1st rounders coming in.

A quick, young point guard would be a good addition. A quality 3 would help. One spot via the draft and one via free agency would be helpful.

Houston's core was older by a couple of years when you talk about the 1995 playoff run. Young guys like Maxwell, Cassell and Horry along with a tough guy like Ellie gave the Rockets a big lift at that time.

Regardless of what happens this year, SA will have a couple of runs left in them. I don't disagree that some youth is needed here.

By the way, I was wondering if some of the posters for other teams (such as the one 200 miles due east of San Antonio) could tell me what is like to have an off decade as opposed to an off year.

[DazedAndConfused]

I think Spurs are running out of excuses to explain the performance of their team. First it was because TP was out, then it was the whole SPAM thing, and now their saving their energy for the playoffs? Something doesn't seem right with the Spurs, last season at this point they were a finely tuned machine ripping through the rest of the league.

[Harry Callahan]

Duncan and Hakeem play entirely differrent types of games in the post. When you think back on how Hakeem aged, think Shaq. Similar type big men -- big boned but athletic and powerful. Quick moves imposed on a big frame over years of work. Barkley, too.

When you think Duncan, remember Abdul-Jabbar -- same smooth, graceful, efficient game. Not quick power moves like Hakeem or Shaq. Longer shelf life.

On the money. :)

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, true, people have been waiting on the Spurs to start showing their age, and they continue to just march on.....

However, for some reason, this year seems different to me....I live in Austin and watch a ton of their games, and I just don't see them having the same dominance as in years past, and other teams are able to single cover Duncan.....

Manu and Parker are the 2 guys playing at their peak, Duncan is great, but seems to take a back seat, kinda like how Robinson did when Duncan was younger...

I just think that for the first time, the Spurs are vulnerable.....

DD:lol The Spurs have been vulnerable every year. It's just the first time your team was doing well enough for you to start a thread about the "old Spurs" on their message board.

The very essence of the frontrunning fan.

[ChumpDumper]

I think Spurs are running out of excuses to explain the performance of their team. First it was because TP was out, then it was the whole SPAM thing, and now their saving their energy for the playoffs? Something doesn't seem right with the Spurs, last season at this point they were a finely tuned machine ripping through the rest of the league.You didn't watch the games last season.

[word]

teH sKyz aRe fAlLinG !!

Same shit, different year.

[DazedAndConfused]

The Spurs closed out the season 20-3 last season right? I'm pretty sure they weren't losing 4 out of 5 games.

[Harry Callahan]

I think Spurs are running out of excuses to explain the performance of their team. First it was because TP was out, then it was the whole SPAM thing, and now their saving their energy for the playoffs? Something doesn't seem right with the Spurs, last season at this point they were a finely tuned machine ripping through the rest of the league.

I don't think Parker's situation is an excuse. It's a fact - he has not been right most of the year with the ankle. Even when he's been on the floor, it's not the same player as the 2005 and 2006 seasons. With a 100% Parker for 60 games so far this year, we would not be talking about any of this because the Spurs would be up 3-4 games in the WC.

All I know is, no team is going to want to face this team in a seven game series this year. They know what to do when it's money time. No other team in the WC can say that right now.

[duncan228]

:lol The Spurs have been vulnerable every year.

March 20, 2005.
Duncan goes down in Detroit.
Misses a ton of games.
He went down again in Seattle.
Everyone counted us out that year. :)

[ChumpDumper]

The Lakers are doing well enough for my balls to drop so I can post on a Spurs board!

[DazedAndConfused]

LOL we are without Bynum, Gasol, Mihm, and Ariza. We are in worse shape than you at this point.

[DaDakota]

By the way, I was wondering if some of the posters for other teams (such as the one 200 miles due east of San Antonio) could tell me what is like to have an off decade as opposed to an off year.

It freakin sucks...but it happens to everyone, once the run is over for a great team, like the Rockets of Hakeem or the Spurs of Duncan...it is inevitable that they will have to rebuild.

It is painful, but it happens.

DD

[ChumpDumper]

LOL we are without Bynum, Gasol, Mihm, and Ariza. We are in worse shape than you at this point.Good to know you have your excuses at the ready.

[T Park]

LOL we are without Bynum, Gasol, Mihm, and Ariza. We are in worse shape than you at this point.


No Udoka Barry, a hobbled Ginobili and a returning Parker?

GMAFB with Chris Mihm.

[ChumpDumper]

It freakin sucks...but it happens to everyone, once the run is over for a great team, like the Rockets of Hakeem or the Spurs of Duncan...it is inevitable that they will have to rebuild.

It is painful, but it happens.

DDThey aren't going to get rid of the big three, so it's not really rebuilding.

It won't be painful at all.

[T Park]

The bigs will get considerably younger and more athletic next year with the two 2 1st rounders coming in.



Yeah everyone forgets that

with a first rounder AND Tiago Splitter coming in, this team is gonna get younger quicker that way.

I think Marcus Williams gets another shot and who knows, he may take the 4th or 5th swingman spot.

They will have the MLE to work with to go get a James Jones or someone like that.

This offseason is gonna be fun.

[E20]

Yeah everyone forgets that

with a first rounder AND Tiago Splitter coming in, this team is gonna get younger quicker that way.

I think Marcus Williams gets another shot and who knows, he may take the 4th or 5th swingman spot.

They will have the MLE to work with to go get a James Jones or someone like that.

This offseason is gonna be fun.
The Spurs traded their 1st round pick.

[DaDakota]

But at some point all the pounding that Manu and Parker take by going to the paint so hard will cause their bodies to break down......

And Duncan looks a lot older already, at least to me, he is not nearly as explosive as he used to be and his averages across the board are going down...

I just think the Spurs are on the downward side of their era....they may still get a championship - lord knows they should still be the favorites, but when the decline happens, it usually happens very fast.

DD

[ChumpDumper]

The Spurs traded their 1st round pick.not the 08 pick.

[E20]

The reason Duncan's averages are going down is because of Manu and Tony playing so well, similar thing happening in Boston with KG's numbers. Duncan doesn't really rely too much on jumping, he doesn't really dunk or explode to the basket. IMO Spurs will be fine this year.

[E20]

not the 08 pick.
Okay then nevermind.

[ChumpDumper]

But at some point all the pounding that Manu and Parker take by going to the paint so hard will cause their bodies to break down......And Yao, and TMac and every NBA player ever.


And Duncan looks a lot older already, at least to me, he is not nearly as explosive as he used to be and his averages across the board are going down...Welcome to the last five years.


I just think the Spurs are on the downward side of their era....they may still get a championship - lord knows they should still be the favorites, but when the decline happens, it usually happens very fast.

DDThanks for saying the exact same thing in every post.

Spurs are old.

We get it.

[remingtonbo2001]

Just because they come off the books does not mean they will be able to replace their talent with equal or near equal younger guys.

I do think them owning the Austin Toros is a big benefit, but they need to get younger and more athletic surrounding the big three, or their run is going to end fairly fast.

It may already be over, and we just don't know it yet.

DD

What are you talking about?!?

Spliter will be coming over next season. Same with Mahnimi. Tiago is 23. Ian is 21. Both play the post position. Bonner is reletively young. Tim isn't acient by any means. Oberto is getting up there. Thomas would be nice as a good veteran. That should shore up the front court.

Yes, the backcourt is in need of a youth injection. It would be nice if Marcus Williams continues his progress, but I won't hold my breath.
That being said, either Barry or Finley will be back next season. I'd imagine Vaughn will return too. That leaves about 3 spots which need to be filled. We have enough wiggle room to sign a decent contributor, then a couple of fillers, maybe prospects.

Personally, I'd be more concerned if I were Houston. Unfortunately for the Rockets, they have had a history of injuries.

[T Park]

But at some point all the pounding that Manu and Parker take by going to the paint so hard will cause their bodies to break down......

And Duncan looks a lot older already, at least to me, he is not nearly as explosive as he used to be and his averages across the board are going down...

I just think the Spurs are on the downward side of their era....they may still get a championship - lord knows they should still be the favorites, but when the decline happens, it usually happens very fast.

DD

When was Duncan ever explosive?

His averages are down, due to Parker and Ginobili's averages being up.

Theres only one basketball stat kid.

[Mr. Body]

The Lakers ended the same way. Most dynasties do. It just gets harder and harder to replenish the role players with very low draft picks, salaries filling up the luxury tax, and no one wanting to deal with you. Houston added Barkley and Pippen; Los Angeles added Malone and Payton.

In the second case, it almost worked. But even with Kobe and Shaq still in their primes, it was the decaying roster around them. We sure look like the 2003 Lakers right now, with Slava Medvedenko and Brian Cook out there, except ours are graceless old farts.

This was always the issue. We knew this team had to be retooled in a significant way LAST year, but managed to win the championship, anyway. Then this summer was pegged as the reload, since so many contracts come off the books (although we don't clear any cap space), and we'd cross our fingers and hope savvy and willpower would get us a back-to-back. It's looking bleak at the moment, but hopefully we can turn it around.

Meanwhile, the future... Splitter and Mahinmi will have very little seasoning next year, and we can't expect big returns for them until another two or three years down the line. Any rookies we might draft and, conceivably, are any good at all, will take just as long, unless we draft a good domestic player, which has never happened before. We can sign James Jones and tinker with the roster, but I expect many of the pieces we're depending on this season to still be in place. In short, there are no quick fixes. I'd expect them to go for V-Span, simply because there is no better option, although apparently he's an ass. Otherwise, we'll grind another year with too many old players and a small passel of way-too-young players.

[T Park]

What are you talking about?!?

Spliter will be coming over next season. Same with Mahnimi. Tiago is 23. Ian is 21. Both play the post position. Bonner is reletively young. Tim isn't acient by any means. Oberto is getting up there. Thomas would be nice as a good veteran. That should shore up the front court.

Yes, the backcourt is in need of a youth injection. It would be nice if Marcus Williams continues his progress, but I won't hold my breath.
That being said, either Barry or Finley will be back next season. I'd imagine Vaughn will return too. That leaves about 3 spots which need to be filled. We have enough wiggle room to sign a decent contributor, then a couple of fillers, maybe prospects.

Personally, I'd be more concerned if I were Houston. Unfortunately for the Rockets, they have had a history of injuries.

I'd say this is Finley's last year, and Barry will return.

They will have the MLE wich they will use to go after guys like Jones, Moon, guys of that ilk. Maybe try and beg Maggette to take the MLE for two years for promises of rings and a later payday (pie in the sky thinking sure, but gotta start somewhere)

[T Park]

Splitter and Mahinmi will have very little seasoning next year

Mahinmi yes. Splitter, no.

[ChumpDumper]

I think Splitter's contribution will be pretty significant right off the bat. Ian might shift between SA and Austin throughout the season.

[T Park]

Agreed, Splitter is better than people think he is.

IMO he will start off as the primary big off the bench, but pushes and maybe passes Thomas (hopefully hes brought back) for the starting spot.

[DazedAndConfused]

The Spurs will always be a good team as long as the Big 3 are out there on the floor. But I think we've seen the last of their title runs.

There is a changing of the guard happening in the WC and teams like LAL, HOU, NOR, POR, and UTAH are starting to emerge while PHX/DAL/SAS are on the decline.

[T Park]

blah blah blah blah, the kids left me out of playing on the playground again so im sitting here with no life on the forum blah blah blah.

[DazedAndConfused]

The Lakers ended the same way. Most dynasties do. It just gets harder and harder to replenish the role players with very low draft picks, salaries filling up the luxury tax, and no one wanting to deal with you. Houston added Barkley and Pippen; Los Angeles added Malone and Payton.

In the second case, it almost worked. But even with Kobe and Shaq still in their primes, it was the decaying roster around them. We sure look like the 2003 Lakers right now, with Slava Medvedenko and Brian Cook out there, except ours are graceless old farts.

This was always the issue. We knew this team had to be retooled in a significant way LAST year, but managed to win the championship, anyway. Then this summer was pegged as the reload, since so many contracts come off the books (although we don't clear any cap space), and we'd cross our fingers and hope savvy and willpower would get us a back-to-back. It's looking bleak at the moment, but hopefully we can turn it around.

Meanwhile, the future... Splitter and Mahinmi will have very little seasoning next year, and we can't expect big returns for them until another two or three years down the line. Any rookies we might draft and, conceivably, are any good at all, will take just as long, unless we draft a good domestic player, which has never happened before. We can sign James Jones and tinker with the roster, but I expect many of the pieces we're depending on this season to still be in place. In short, there are no quick fixes. I'd expect them to go for V-Span, simply because there is no better option, although apparently he's an ass. Otherwise, we'll grind another year with too many old players and a small passel of way-too-young players.

^what he said. it's impossible to keep dynasties up forever.

[ChumpDumper]

Why are rocketfans and lakerfans posting here?

[DazedAndConfused]

Well apparently we are hitting a nerve here, Spurs fans don't want to admit the truth of the situation.

[T Park]

Why are rocketfans and lakerfans posting here?


Because their parents don't hug them enough?

[ChumpDumper]

Well apparently we are hitting a nerve here, Spurs fans don't want to admit the truth of the situation.It could very well be true -- it is something I accepted long ago when DRob retired -- but that doesn't answer my question

[majinkoola]

Sure, but Olajuwon was 34 during the Rockets' last deep playoff run. You can't tell me that there's no difference between a 34-year old big man who relies on athleticism and a barely 32-year old big man who's game has very little to do with athleticism.

I'm not saying that. I just hate it when homers exaggerate the numbers a bit to prove their point. Use the actual numbers. For instance, being a Suns fan, I could say the Suns aren't that old! They have a 33 or 34 year old point guard in Nash, a 30 or 31 year old shooting guard in Bell, a 35 or 36 year old center in Shaq, and guys like Diaw, Amare, and Barbosa that are around 24!

Or with stats. When people try to downgrade Nash they always say he averaged like 18 and 10 his MVP year. Generally 18.8 would be rounded up, but no, change the statistics a bit to help your cause. Dumb.

[T Park]

I'm not saying that. I just hate it when homers exaggerate the numbers a bit to prove their point. Use the actual numbers. For instance, being a Suns fan, I could say the Suns aren't that old! They have a 33 or 34 year old point guard in Nash, a 30 or 31 year old shooting guard in Bell, a 35 or 36 year old center in Shaq, and guys like Diaw, Amare, and Barbosa that are around 24!

Or with stats. When people try to downgrade Nash they always say he averaged like 18 and 10 his MVP year. Generally 18.8 would be rounded up, but no, change the statistics a bit to help your cause. Dumb.


God, wheres the billy madison you tube clip...

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not saying that. I just hate it when homers exaggerate the numbers a bit to prove their point.He said 30 or 31. He simply wasn't sure.

Turns out he's 31.

Please get over yourself.

[DaDakota]

Guys, I am not trolling here, I just wanted a legitimate conversation.

Body,

If you guys sign V-Span it would be a HUGE move for the Spurs, that guy got screwed over worse than any Houston Rocket I can ever remember. He got caught in a power struggle between the coach (who didn't like Euros) and the GM (who saw the direction the league was heading), and he basically became a punching bag for JVG.

Very sad, the guy can flat out play...especially from the PnR stand point, he is an attacking PG/SG....and plays excellent defense on the perimeter.

And again, I was just pointing out that it seems the Spurs are finally vulnerable......and I am under no illusions, even though we have won 21 in a row, it would be monumental to succeed in the playoffs without Yao.

I am hoping this is setting us up and building confidence for next year.

DD

[Brutalis]

No, they don't.

It's easy to say shit like that at times like these when we don't look 100%. In reality this stuff doesn't even enter the brain when we win does it?

Course not.

[ChumpDumper]

Spurs are old!

[DaDakota]

When was Duncan ever explosive?

His averages are down, due to Parker and Ginobili's averages being up.

Theres only one basketball stat kid.

Ginobli and Parker effect his FG% and rebounding averages too?

DD

[T Park]

Ginobli and Parker effect his FG% and rebounding averages too?

DD

Yup.

[E20]

Ginobli and Parker effect his FG% and rebounding averages too?

DD
Ginobili and Parker are having career highs in rebounding this season.

[DaDakota]

Ginobili and Parker are having career highs in rebounding this season.

Fair enough.

So that is why you guys think TD's rebounding numbers are down is because Ginobli and Parker are taking some away?

Or is it the flip side, where they have to get them because TD can't do it anymore?

;)

JKidding.

DD

[ChumpDumper]

Fair enough.

So that is why you guys think TD's rebounding numbers are down is because Ginobli and Parker are taking some away?

Or is it the flip side, where they have to get them because TD can't do it anymore?

;)

JKidding.

DDDuncan's rebounding is up this season.

Why do you have to lie?

[ChumpDumper]

Fair enough.

So that is why you guys think TD's rebounding numbers are his best since the 03-04 season is because Ginobli and Parker are taking some away?
That's better.

[E20]

KG is old.

[T Park]

Ya know I just realized, Rocket fan saying our team is really old when they have the 89 year old Mutombo on their team and management asking him to comeback and play again next year.

[Mr. Body]

Ya know I just realized, Rocket fan saying our team is really old when they have the 89 year old Mutombo on their team and management asking him to comeback and play again next year.

1. He's still effective.

2. Perimeter players age faster.

3. He's not as big a part of their team is as our greybeards are to ours.

4. Mutombo is ageless. He is timeless. Mutombo is the universe and life itself.

[DaDakota]

Duncan's rebounding is up this season.

Why do you have to lie?
He is having his 7th best rebounding season out of 11 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=215)

And his 10th best scoring season out of 11....

It is a slight decline if you ask me.

DD

[ChumpDumper]

I lied.

[T Park]

1. He's still effective.

2. Perimeter players age faster.

3. He's not as big a part of their team is as our greybeards are to ours.

4. Mutombo is ageless. He is timeless. Mutombo is the universe and life itself.

hes not a big part?

Hes taken most of Yao's minutes WTF.

[DaDakota]

He is having his 7th best rebounding season out of 11 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=215)

And his 10th best scoring season out of 11....

It is a slight decline if you ask me.

DD


Still not as drastic as I thought, but he is declining.

DD

[DazedAndConfused]

^^Do your research TPark. He doesn't play more than 20 mpg.

And Duncan is the least of the Spurs worries, he will be effective all the way into his late 30s barring injuries. Parker is still young, and Manu is having his best season ever. Their big 3 will be OK for the next few years, it's a matter of restocking role players that will be challenging.

[ChumpDumper]

Still not as drastic as I attempted to portray when I lied.

DD

[DaDakota]

Chump are you always so cheery? DD

[E20]

Even though ChumpDumper's posts aren't directed towards me they are making me mad/annoyed. :pctoss

[ChumpDumper]

Chump are you always so cheery? It is all good, people never want to face the truth.

DDEspecially liars like you.

[DaDakota]

Especially liars like you.

Pure class, just without the first 2 letters.

If you don't want to discuss my thoughts on the Spurs, fine, no need to be rude.

And I did say that SA was still the favorite.

DD

[ChumpDumper]

Pure class, just without the first 2 letters.You wound me, sir.

Nevertheless, I'm not the one who lied.

[703 Spurz]

I think there is some truth to what this Rocket fan is saying. If the Spurs can barely survive a grueling March, how on earth are they going to make it out of potential 7 game series in every round till the Finals? The Spurs are no longer the front runners in the WC.

There are no fucking frontrunners. The 1 seed and the 9 seed are seperated by 5 fucking games.

[DaDakota]

You wound me, sir.

Nevertheless, I'm not the one who lied.

No lying at all, it is all a matter of perspective, if you think that him going up over one of his worst years ever is actually doing better, then fine.

I see a decline over the course of his career and him leaving his prime, just a different way of looking at it.

DD

[ChumpDumper]

If you don't want to discuss my thoughts on the Spurs, fine, no need to be rude.Your thoughts on the Spurs included a lie about Duncan's rebounding. I'm all for discussing that.

[ChumpDumper]

11.6 < 10.6!

[703 Spurz]

I think Spurs are running out of excuses to explain the performance of their team. First it was because TP was out, then it was the whole SPAM thing, and now their saving their energy for the playoffs? Something doesn't seem right with the Spurs, last season at this point they were a finely tuned machine ripping through the rest of the league.

Even if the Spurs were starting to fade, you act like you're going to dryhump everyone on this board.

What exactly is your beef with the Spurs and why do you feel the need to try and prove they're fading to Spurs fans?

[703 Spurz]

The Spurs will always be a good team as long as the Big 3 are out there on the floor. But I think we've seen the last of their title runs.

There is a changing of the guard happening in the WC and teams like LAL, HOU, NOR, POR, and UTAH are starting to emerge while PHX/DAL/SAS are on the decline.

And if the Lakers were .500 this year I bet we'd never hear this dildo attempt to talk shit. Amazing how that works.

The Lakers are a game up on the Spurs and only 6 on the 9th seeded team yet it's the Spurs who are on the decline.

Hell if being on the decline has you 1 game out of the best record, sign me up.

[DaDakota]

Duncan's career averages versus this year.

Career vs, This year
11.9 rpg 11.6 rpg
21.7 ppg 19.8 ppg
.508 FG% .501 FG%

While not all that much it is still off his career averages and thus in decline......the truth will set you free.

DD

[E20]

Duncan's career averages versus this year.

Career vs, This year
11.9 rpg 11.6 rpg
21.7 ppg 19.8 ppg
.508 FG% .501 FG%

While not all that much it is still off his career averages and thus in decline......the truth will set you free.

DD
Tim Duncan can still improve his season averages.

[ChumpDumper]

OMG! TMac's scoring is down over 30% compared to 02-03!

Decline!

[DaDakota]

OMG! TMac's scoring is down over 30% compared to 02-03!

Decline!

I would agree with that, he is not the player he was then.....


Tim Duncan can still improve his season averages.

A very good point.

DD

[Ronaldo McDonald]

LOL at Lakers fans trying to convince themselves that the Spurs are done with.

After 4 losses.

[ChumpDumper]

I would agree with that, he is not the player he was then.....

DDIt means he's done!

Accept it!

[T Park]

:lol

The Rockets are clearly an old team in decline also.

[remingtonbo2001]

Guys, I am not trolling here, I just wanted a legitimate conversation.

DD

I gave you one. You apparently missed it. It was on page 2.

End of conversation.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Great teams have bad stretches, too, guys.

There's one thing don't understand: If a bad team wins four games in a row agaisnt teams that they shouldn't have beat, they're STILL a bad team, but with a lot of luck. On the other hand, if a good team loses against four teams they should have beat, it's time blow the team up.

[DaDakota]

What are you talking about?!?

Spliter will be coming over next season. Same with Mahnimi. Tiago is 23. Ian is 21. Both play the post position. Bonner is reletively young. Tim isn't acient by any means. Oberto is getting up there. Thomas would be nice as a good veteran. That should shore up the front court.

Yes, the backcourt is in need of a youth injection. It would be nice if Marcus Williams continues his progress, but I won't hold my breath.
That being said, either Barry or Finley will be back next season. I'd imagine Vaughn will return too. That leaves about 3 spots which need to be filled. We have enough wiggle room to sign a decent contributor, then a couple of fillers, maybe prospects.

Personally, I'd be more concerned if I were Houston. Unfortunately for the Rockets, they have had a history of injuries.

Sorry I missed this excellent retort.

No doubt the Rockets have been injured, especially Yao and Tmac.

DO you really think Splitter is going to be that good? I have season tickets to the Toros and see Mahini a lot, not all that impressed honestly.

I just look at the Spurs bench and it used to be stocked with quality players in their primes, now it looks like a geriatric factory.

Stoudamire, Finley, Barry, Thomas, Horry....

So many old guys.....

DD

[DazedAndConfused]

Like I said before as long as the big 3 are playing out there the Spurs will never miss the playoffs. They will always be a good team. But there is a difference between being a good team and a legitimate contender.

As another Spurs fan pointed out, it becomes harder and harder to replace the role players as the years go by. This is the problem with the Spurs this year, the role players aren't stepping up. And now that you have young teams like LAL, POR, UTA, and HOU on the rise it's going to be even tougher for the Spurs to make more title runs with what they have. The WC is downright disgusting in terms of talent.

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry I missed this excellent retort.

No doubt the Rockets have been injured, especially Yao and Tmac.Yao is always injured and TMac is 30% worse!

Decline!


DO you really think Splitter is going to be that good?Yes.
I have season tickets to the Toros and see Mahini a lot, not all that impressed honestly.I would not expect you to be -- it doesn't fit your agenda.


I just look at the Spurs bench and it used to be stocked with quality players in their primes, now it looks like a geriatric factory.

Stoudamire, Finley, Barry, Thomas, Horry....

So many old guys.....

DDWell, at least you are trying to change the subject after lying about Duncan's rebounds.

It's the same bench as last season -- they weren't in their primes then either.

[DazedAndConfused]

Yao is always injured and TMac is 30% worse!

Decline!

Yes.I would not expect you to be -- it doesn't fit your agenda.

Well, at least you are trying to change the subject after lying about Duncan's rebounds.

Are you a Republican by any chance? Because you sure argue like one, taking the nuances of someone's post and focusing all your attention there instead of on the main gist of the post.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm still on a Spurs board!

[ChumpDumper]

Are you a Republican by any chance? Because you sure argue like one, taking the nuances of someone's post and focusing all your attention there instead of on the main gist of the post.Why are you here?

[DazedAndConfused]

I voted for George Bush....twice

[E20]

I'm gonna hand it to CD, his posts would fuckign make me mad. Good thing he's on my side and I never fuck with him.

[DazedAndConfused]

I think CD is hilarious even though he seems to hate my guts.

[ChumpDumper]

Are you a Republican by any chance? Because you sure argue like one, taking the nuances of someone's post and focusing all your attention there instead of on the main gist of the post.False premise.

You guys are incapable of nuance.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Like I said before as long as the big 3 are playing out there the Spurs will never miss the playoffs. They will always be a good team. But there is a difference between being a good team and a legitimate contender.

As another Spurs fan pointed out, it becomes harder and harder to replace the role players as the years go by. This is the problem with the Spurs this year, the role players aren't stepping up. And now that you have young teams like LAL, POR, UTA, and HOU on the rise it's going to be even tougher for the Spurs to make more title runs with what they have. The WC is downright disgusting in terms of talent.

I extremely confident in the Spurs, no matter how difficult it is in the West.

Know why?

We have The best player in the league and The best coach/general manager in the league.

[DazedAndConfused]

^^That's nice.

[T Park]

Usually helps.

[timmy21_4rings]

he's a different animal when the Playoffs start.

nothing is guaranteed. Everyone thought Spurs will be okay after Rodeo trip. Look what is happening.

The only animal that is different from last year is west which is way better than last year. The margin of error is very less.

[T Park]

nothing is guaranteed. Everyone thought Spurs will be okay after Rodeo trip. Look what is happening.

The only animal that is different from last year is west which is way better than last year. The margin of error is very less.


:lol

Yeah Tim Duncan won't pick up his level play in the playoffs.

BTW, rodeo roady then on they won 11 in a row.

Just cause you lose a few after that doesn't mean you haven't improved.

[duncan228]

nothing is guaranteed.

I guarantee you, barring injury, Duncan will rise in the Playoffs.
He always has, he always will.
Set your clock by it.

[vander]

are people even watching the Spurs? TP and Manu aren't attacking the basket as much, or playing nearly as aggressive as they can, and will come playoff time. when we have to win, those guys will be getting to the bucket AND 1!!! right now they are just playing within the offense, taking the easy shots, biding their time...

[manufor3]

I still see the Spurs as the front runner, most experience, and Manu, Parker and Duncan, I am just saying from the outside it looks like age is creeping up on them.

Duncan no longer requires a double team each game, and that is a big sign.

DD
ya they may be 2-teaming manu or tp...

[Capt Bringdown]

The OP's comparison is not perfect, but he does have a point. I recall from those last Hakeem/Rocket years there was a lot of same noise from the fans. Always hoping the next game, season milestone, player returning from injury, etc, would be the switch that would return the team to championship form. When this didn't pan out, everyone put their hopes in players magically turning the switch on in the playoffs.

[DaDakota]

The OP's comparison is not perfect, but he does have a point. I recall from those last Hakeem/Rocket years there was a lot of same noise from the fans. Always hoping the next game, season milestone, player returning from injury, etc, would be the switch that would return the team to championship form. When this didn't pan out, everyone put their hopes in players magically turning the switch on in the playoffs.

Thank you !

I could be wrong, but the Spurs do not look the same this year...Bowen in particular just doesn't dominate defensively anymore and he has been a major key to the Spurs success.

DD