How High Can the Suns Go?

[Kori Ellis]

How High Can the Suns Go?
By Mike Tulumello
East Valley Tribune
Jan. 11, 2005

http://www.nba.com/suns/news/tribune_050111.html

Mike D’Antoni stared at the number written on a yellow legal pad and held right in front of his face, so he couldn’t pretend to say he didn’t see it. Then he cringed, and stepped back, as if he were a vampire in an old horror film confronted with a crucifix.

The number was 70.

The Suns coach knew the meaning — his club is on pace to become the second NBA team ever to win 70 games (the Chicago Bulls went 72-10 in 1995-96) — and he didn’t want to deal with it.

"No, no!" he said. "You’re not getting me on that one."

His reaction isn’t surprising.

Pro coaches and athletes are reluctant to say anything that could come back to bite them. Sometimes they sense too much loose talk could send some sort of hex or curse their way, so they often shy away from speculation of this sort.

Even Casey Jacobsen, who last month was one of the first Suns to openly discuss the possibility of winning 60 games, backed away from the thought.

"We don’t have Michael Jordan," Jacobsen said.

Beyond this, even one significant injury likely would shut down this possibility.

More realistic is the chance to become the most improved team in NBA history.

The record is a 36-game upswing by the 1997-98 San Antonio Spurs (the team Tim Duncan joined out of college). The Spurs improved from 20-62 the previous season to 56-26.


For more coverage of Phoenix sports,
be sure to visit eastvalleytribune.com
To top this, the Suns would need to win 66 games, a 37-game improvement from their 29-53 season a year ago.

On this subject, D’Antoni is at least willing to move his lips.

"I don’t think we can get there," he said. "I don’t want to limit this team, but that would be unbelievable. It would be hard enough to get into the 50s."

Steve Nash downplayed the Suns’ chances for 66 wins, too, saying, "It’s possible, but it would be pretty unlikely."

How so?

"Every team has a lull or a losing streak. Add that in the mix.

"And every team usually has an injury. Then the schedule usually bites you at some point.

"There are a lot of factors working against us getting to that level. But we’ll see."

Jacobsen took a more optimistic tone on the chance for 66, though he acknowledged more experienced players can see the pitfalls more clearly.

"The old vets know it’s too hard to do. I think, ‘Why not?’

"This team to me is so special. If we can keep our focus and stay away from injuries, I definitely think it’s possible."

Agreed Jake Voskuhl, "The bottom line is that we have a number of elite, phenomenal athletes.

"That’s what separates us from other teams and makes it a possibility for us to do it."

Quentin Richardson took a more traditional approach, punting the question entirely: "I’ve never been a guy to say we’ll win a certain number of games."

At the same time, "We’re playing well, and we’ll continue to play well. Anything can happen."

The consensus among the Suns is that this month’s schedule is the key.

The Suns (30-4) play 17 games this month, 11 on the road. So far, they’re 5-0, including 3-0 on the road.

"I think January will tell it," said D’Antoni, who has informally thrown out 13-4 as a goal. "If we can get through January, we will have a chance to win a lot of games."

For the rest of the season, they play 15 games that reasonably could be called their toughest challenges, games against San Antonio, Miami, Minnesota (a team that has given them big problems in recent years), Seattle, Sacramento and defending champion Detroit.

To get to 66, the Suns would need to go 8-7 in these games, while losing only five of the other 33 games on their schedule.

To get to 70, they would need to go 10-5 in these games, while losing only three of the other 33.

Now, here’s another possibility.

If the Suns went 11-4 in these toughest games and lost only one other game, they would end up with a 73-9 record, the best ever.

But this is a subject for another day, maybe, if everything breaks right for the Suns.

[Kori Ellis]

If the Suns went 11-4 in these toughest games and lost only one other game, they would end up with a 73-9 record, the best ever.

I can't believe they are even discussing stuff like this. One game at a time. It's not even the All-Star break.

[T Park]

More than likely.

there is alot of mediocre teams.

The only way they dont do it?

if they start hitting shooting slumps, or one of the starting 5 gets hurt.

Problem is, by the playoffs, the starting 5 might be worn out.

[boutons]

suns 40 - heat 25 at 1st qtr. Not a bad start.

[T Park]

they are the Dallas Mavericks of 2 years ago.

[jalbre6]

I can't believe they are even discussing stuff like this. One game at a time. It's not even the All-Star break.

I can. We discuss this shit all the time in here. Mike Tulumello probably got the inspiration from a Suns message board.

[Guru of Nothing]

The Suns are playing excellent ball, but even if they end up 73-9, I think the Spurs win the matchups in a best of seven playoff.

[boutons]

The Suns haven't gotten into the suicidcal funks and walkabouts that the Spurs get into. I get the impression that the Suns really like to play basketball every night.

Mid 3rd qtr, Suns +22. gameover. Spotting the Suns +15 after the 1st qtr in their arena, you're only hope is that the Suns collapse. This season, the Suns just haven't given away any games.

[ducks]

they should rest their starters and not go for the record

that record would mean nothing if they lose in the first round of the playoffs

[samikeyp]

if they can keep this up into March, I will be impressed.

[SirChaz]

they are the Dallas Mavericks of 2 years ago.


......with the inside game of Stoudemire.


Mavs never had a guy finish inside and/or get to the line like Amare.

[boutons]

This was a classic suns blowout, all starters in 14+ points and 4 of the starters with 40+ minutes, the 5th starter Nash had 33 minutes.

Now go tell the Heat how lack of depth is killing the Suns, who somehow seem to have tons of energy while playing tons more minutes than the Spurs.

[ducks]

make them play 82 games and then playoffs

that is when it will catch up

[samikeyp]

Mavs never had a guy finish inside and/or get to the line like Amare.

although Dirk can get to the line, the inside presence of Stoudemire is something Dallas lacked then and still does.

[Rummpd]

I guess the 21st will really be a statement game - only the Spurs have embarrased them and/or even beat them recently (Sonics played them close as well). (By the way, the Heat are now I believe 7 and 8 vs. West and unless, the Suns are really that impossibly good & and I an't buying it yet, their D did not show up tonight. This game may tonight more of an indication of a slipping Heat team - time will tell.)

Prediction - Spurs get motivated and get that game by 8 through strong D but most importantly, a strong offensive outing. For all their recent "ails", big 3 all near or at 20+ last 3-4 games + a Bowen, Barry or perhaps, Pop in a CIA move turning back to Brown with another scorer = win again.

I had the Suns at 61 earlier but now they only have to win 30 more out of 47 to get to that level. This team will win more than 30/47 = probably 34/47 = 65.

In other words Spurs have to play some incredible ball to catch them one seed - plausible still a lot can happen.

Spurs have had 37 and 5 ends to seasons or the like in past and may well need another one. I have Spurs at 63 (still would love to be wrong on upside), and I could see them getting a little higher or Suns falling back to 62/63 = perhaps, a tie broken by head to head?

MadDoc

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I saw some highlights of this one, Miami looked lost defensively.

Defense 101: if all else fails man up, don't leave 3 guys wide open.

[milkyway21]

:nope [QUOTE=Kori Ellis]How High Can the Suns Go?
By Mike Tulumello
East Valley Tribune
Jan. 11, 2005

http://www.nba.com/suns/news/tribune_050111.html

Mike D’Antoni stared at the number written on a yellow legal pad and held right in front of his face, so he couldn’t pretend to say he didn’t see it. Then he cringed, and stepped back, as if he were a vampire in an old horror film confronted with a crucifix.

The number was 70.

The Suns coach knew the meaning — his club is on pace to become the second NBA team ever to win 70 games (the Chicago Bulls went 72-10 in 1995-96) — and he didn’t want to deal with it.

QUOTE] :nope :nope :nope
deja vu of 2002-2003 (Dallas) & 2003-2004(Lakers)? Both failed to reach the top at the end of the season... :lol

[SirChaz]

I don't know how many games they can win but 60+ is certainly attainable.

They collapsed against Cleveland on the road and lost in ot.

Lost close games to Sac and Min at home and got killed by the Spurs on the road.

They won close games against the Lakers, Sonics, and Nuggets.

Besides that they have beat everyone pretty soundly. This month is probably the toughest with back-to-back games and long road trips. So far they are undefeated for the month.

Yea I would say the game against the Spurs is pretty big for the Suns if for no other reason than to show the rest of the league they can beat them.

[Sense]

Suns will get the wins, but face it...the only team that knows how to beat them well is the spurs. The 30+ lead proved it.

No one else worthy of a championship has beatean them, they didnt just beat them, the spurs raped them.

The suns are just a team that proves to the league that the spurs are the best, since no one can stop them except the champions.

Suns are not that good...and the Spurs proved it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What good do the wins do them now if they are out of gas come playoff time?

The five Suns starters combined played all but 40 minutes of the game tonight.

[SirChaz]

Suns are not that good...and the Spurs proved it.


:lol

Keep telling yourself that. You might just start to believe it. :elephant

It was one game, granted the Spurs dominated after the first qtr but the real scary part is the Suns are improving every week. Pistons are the champs but the Spurs are the best team right now. Once the Suns beat the Spurs in Phoenix, the Suns become the best team and validate their record.

Suns need to tighten up the defense, force the Spurs to shoot from the outside and don't worry about Duncan so much that they let others get to the rim.

Duncan will get his points but if the Suns play their game the Spurs won't be able to shoot well enough to keep up.

[milkyway21]

Suns are not that good...Steve Kerr said that too, only the other way around :lol . Beware Stevie won't like it :blah :blah :blah

[milkyway21]

The Suns is a good team, but some analysts can't decide if they are for real, if they are the best, BECAUSE OF THAT BLOW-OUT game against the Spurs. 30+ advantage? come on!

[SirChaz]

The Suns is a good team, but some analysts can't decide if they are for real, if they are the best, BECAUSE OF THAT BLOW-OUT game against the Spurs. 30+ advantage? come on!


Are the Suns 40+ better than the Pacers or 20+ better than Miami?

For one game they were.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Keep telling yourself that. You might just start to believe it.

It was one game, granted the Spurs dominated after the first qtr but the real scary part is the Suns are improving every week.

Dude, even Rasho got out and ran with Amare. As long as that's happening, Phoenix has no chance.

[SirChaz]

Dude, even Rasho got out and ran with Amare. As long as that's happening, Phoenix has no chance.


Spurs have some Suns kryptonite or something? No chance huh?

Amare scored what, only 37 that game? Rasho sure had a big impact on Amare. :rolleyes

[milkyway21]

Are the Suns 40+ better than the Pacers or 20+ better than Miami?

For one game they were.okay, let's put it this way: Suns beat the Spurs in Phoenix 30+, I might reconsider that they're the best right now.

I just wonder :angel if HOW this team fares if Nash gets injured? Can Amare maintain his "dominance"? :angel

[Frenchise player]

This team remembers me more the Timberwolves of last year.
They add two great players, a point guard (Cassel/Nash) and a scorer (Spreewell/Q Rich). The both have a player running for MVP award (KG/Amare) and I think both are going to take the first seed and manage to go to WCF.
But in the same way Twolves have lost to the lakers, the suns will lose against the Spurs. Suns are as inexperienced as Twolves were last year, they don't have bench, they don't have defense and unless playoff type of game is going to change tremendously, they just can't go through the Spurs.
I don't care that Phoenix has the first seed if San antonio win 2 of their 3 games.

[Jimcs50]

The only problen that I see for the Suns is their lack of bench minutes. The starters will tire out by March if they do not get some rest. Otherwise, this team can win 66 + games.

[BigVee]

None of all this back and forth means anything now. One isolated game during the season means little. Wait until the playoffs. If the Suns have home court on everyone they will be very hard to beat. Spurs need to get the number one seed.

[Sportcamper]

Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion and Joe Johnson are great players but it is Steve Nash that has taken the Suns to the next plateau....Nash makes his teammates better players...

To me the Suns look fragile...One Steve Nash away from being a 2nd round elimination team....

[samikeyp]

Amare scored what, only 37 that game? Rasho sure had a big impact on Amare.

That's right! He held Amare under 40! :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

you guys are whistling in the dark thinking Phoenix starters will be too tired to play up to potential in the playoffs...assuming they are healthy the spacing of playoff games plays right into the hands of teams with short benches...no back to back games, long TV timeouts, getting rest after closing out a series early etc...virtually all teams shorten their playoff rotations for this reason...

[boutons]

There's no doubt that the Suns have had the best season so far. They have the best overall record, the very telling best road record (Spurs suck on the road), have given away no games to lesser teams (a Spurs speciality), and have the game-to-game consistency (vs box-of-chocolates Spurs).

It's silly to wish or hope that the Suns collapse or tire out. (It's just as silly to excuse the Spurs' 6 giveaway losses.) Suns have a top-flight coach, and the team doesn't seem to have any headcases or lockerroom problems. The Suns also have plenty of playoff experience, esp against the Spurs. I think the only thing that can slow down the Suns is injury, esp to Steve or Amare.

Friday 21 Jan will be a statement game. The Suns will be playing for payback and for bragging rights to be considered champion-favorite team to go along with their best record. Both teams will have a day's rest, and both will have been at home that week.

[SirChaz]

okay, let's put it this way: Suns beat the Spurs in Phoenix 30+, I might reconsider that they're the best right now.

I just wonder :angel if HOW this team fares if Nash gets injured? Can Amare maintain his "dominance"? :angel

I think the Spurs are the best right now. Their main advantage is their experience and depth. They also have Duncan, who is probably the best player in the world. The Suns don't really have anyone to matchup with him.

Sure Nash could get injured but how good would the Spurs be if Duncan or Parker were injured? It is a possibility for any team. Take one of the two best players off any team and they will most likely struggle.

Suns could be competetive without Nash but nowhere near 31-4.



This team remembers me more the Timberwolves of last year.
They add two great players, a point guard (Cassel/Nash) and a scorer (Spreewell/Q Rich). The both have a player running for MVP award (KG/Amare) and I think both are going to take the first seed and manage to go to WCF.
But in the same way Twolves have lost to the lakers, the suns will lose against the Spurs. Suns are as inexperienced as Twolves were last year, they don't have bench, they don't have defense and unless playoff type of game is going to change tremendously, they just can't go through the Spurs.
I don't care that Phoenix has the first seed if San antonio win 2 of their 3 games.

Interesting. So then Szczerbiak=Marion and Hassell=Johnson? No contest there, advantage Suns.

Hoiberg = Jacobsen?
Hunter + Voskuhl = Olowokandi and Johnson?
Barbosa = Hudson?
Pretty close to a wash in production but maybe a slight advantage T-wolves.

T-wolves had a big three, the Suns have a big 5. However just like the 'Wolves not one of those "bigs" is a real center.


Also just because Phoenix doesn't play the bench as much doesn't mean they don't have one. They have an unproven bench. I don't think anyone could argue that the Suns don't have talent in Hunter, Lampe, Barbosa, even Jacobsen. We have yet to see Lampe even play much. Once he learns to play defense he could be a serious x-factor with his shooting. My only problem with the Suns is I wish they would play the bench more just to get them some minutes to develop. Of course when the team is 31-4 it is hard to argue with what the coach is doing.


I understand people not wanting to admit the Suns are for real. Most Phoenix fans are still a little stunned with disbelief right now. All I know is this season is much more fun than last. I plan to enjoy every minute of it no matter how many games are won and how far they go in the playoffs.

[samikeyp]

I think their record is legit....my question is can they sustain it into the playoffs?

[Sportcamper]

Cosmic- I respect your BB knowledge but the Suns better hope that they DO NOT meet the LAKERS in Round ONE of the Playoffs...Because I have it on very high authority that the Lakers will NOT be eliminated until Round 2!

[samikeyp]

You should listen to Sportscamper. I know I do. Just like the little voices tell me to do. :)

[Extra Stout]

The Mavericks started 31-5 two years ago. They didn't even end up with the top seed in the conference.

Sustaining this kind of play over an entire season is very, very difficult, and the Suns are racking up a ton of miles on their starters. Even though most of them are young, it catches up with them.

I'm just really concerned about how much gas they will have left in the tank at the end of the year, and how well their style of play will translate in the playoffs.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Spurs have some Suns kryptonite or something? No chance huh?

Amare scored what, only 37 that game? Rasho sure had a big impact on Amare

It's called scoreboard. Amare could have scored 80, point is you still lost.

My point on Rasho was that he had one of his better games of the year against you guys. He's basically our weak link in the starting five, so if he's playing well you're screwed.

[boutons]

"The Mavericks started 31-5 two years ago"

What a co-incidence! Who was Mav's PG then? :)

82 games is 82 games. Whether you win or lose them, the wear and tear is basically the same. ie, it's no more physical effort to play 60-22 than 22-60. I say winning is psychologically easier, and provide positive, free-flowing energy that builds the team up, where the stress and onus of losing tears the team down. Your confidence grows with wins. And having confidence make the games/wins easier.

[SirChaz]

It's called scoreboard. Amare could have scored 80, point is you still lost.

My point on Rasho was that he had one of his better games of the year against you guys. He's basically our weak link in the starting five, so if he's playing well you're screwed.


Get over yourself, it was one game. Congratulations! You have scoreboard. The Spurs are the best team, seriously. Happy now?

I thought you guys had all this great depth? You are worried about your starting center, the weak link on your team, when he couldn't stop a 6'10" PF playing out of position?

Suns defense lost that last game not their offense. How often do the Spurs score 115? Rasho will get some opportunities against the Suns with his size. But then when has Rasho ever been the deciding factor in anything? What the Suns need to be concerned about is letting Parker and Ginobili score uncontested layups. The Spurs are a tough matchup for anyone but the are not unbeatable, even for the 'undersized' Suns.

[Jimcs50]

Only as high as Nash can take them, apparently.

[T Park]

How often do the Spurs score 115?

When they play defensively inept teams like the Suns.

Problem is, in the playoffs, defense is priority 1, and offense is priority 2.



Suns, cant play defense, and there out of position forward, needs to improve defensively, before Phoenix is taken seriously.

[pjjrfan]

You beat me to it, that would be my observation also. But I would add only as far as a "healthy Nash" can take them.

[wildbill2u]

Funny how things can change in a week in the NBA. I heard tonihgt that the Spurs are only 1/2 game back of the Suns for the best record in the league after tonight's win and their loss.

By playoff time, the Sours will be ahead and have home court advantage all the way through the playoffs. Western conference: Spurs beat Suns in 6

[boutons]

Western Conference standings (WC conference games only)

Phoenix 18-4
Seattle 15-4
San Antonio 16-7
Minnesota 14-7
Sacramento 13-9
Houston 13-9
Dallas 23 5-4
LA Lakers 13-11
Memphis 11-11
Utah 13 3-3
LA Clippers 9-15
Portland 5-12
Denver 15 1-5
Golden State 5-18
New Orleans 4-17

[SirChaz]

Suns, cant play defense, and there out of position forward, needs to improve defensively, before Phoenix is taken seriously.

First part I disagree with, the second I agree completely.

[Brodels]

When they play defensively inept teams like the Suns.

Problem is, in the playoffs, defense is priority 1, and offense is priority 2.



Suns, cant play defense, and there out of position forward, needs to improve defensively, before Phoenix is taken seriously.

How are the Suns 'defensively inept?' As far as opponents field goal percentage goes, they are in the middle of the league.

They are an average defensive team. They aren't 'inept.'

What makes you think that they are?

They give up a lot of points, but they score a lot and run a lot so they'll certainly allow the opponent more possessions. That's a given. But as far as holding teams to a decent shooting percentage, they do a decent job. They are in the middle of the pack in steals and near the top in rebounding.

That having been said, they could use a little bit more size. If they can get one decent banger to play some solid minutes off the bench, they'll be dangerous.

[td4mvp21]

^the only reason they are average in opp. fg percentage is because by their scoring they force ppl to take shots they wouldn't normally settle for adn of course, they will miss. thats not defense.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Bumptastic.

After the Spurs first victory of the year over the Suns, the now defunct user Sense made the following statement: Suns are not that good...and the Spurs proved it.

This is SirChaz's response:


:lol

Keep telling yourself that. You might just start to believe it. :elephant

It was one game, granted the Spurs dominated after the first qtr but the real scary part is the Suns are improving every week. Pistons are the champs but the Spurs are the best team right now. Once the Suns beat the Spurs in Phoenix, the Suns become the best team and validate their record.

Suns need to tighten up the defense, force the Spurs to shoot from the outside and don't worry about Duncan so much that they let others get to the rim.

Duncan will get his points but if the Suns play their game the Spurs won't be able to shoot well enough to keep up.

Sir Chaz, in the three games this year in which Duncan played, including yesterday, the Suns tried exactly what you suggested and got beat by an average score of 121-110.

In these games, Duncan has gotten his points and, the Suns have played their game, and the Spurs have not only shot well enough to keep up, but they've run the Suns out of their own building twice.

Any thoughts?

[TMSKILZ]

SirChaz you've been 0wned!

[SirChaz]

Bumptastic.

After the Spurs first victory of the year over the Suns, the now defunct user Sense made the following statement: Suns are not that good...and the Spurs proved it.

This is SirChaz's response:



Sir Chaz, in the three games this year in which Duncan played, including yesterday, the Suns tried exactly what you suggested and got beat by an average score of 121-110.

In these games, Duncan has gotten his points and, the Suns have played their game, and the Spurs have not only shot well enough to keep up, but they've run the Suns out of their own building twice.

Any thoughts?


Too many points in the paint and Berry has killed us in both games. I wonder were he was the other games they played. If he can shoot like that for 3 more games the Spurs will be in great shape.

We'll see if the Spurs can keep it up. We'll see what happens on Tuesday.

I said someplace the Suns can't really afford Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan all going off. Any 2 of the three and the Suns will be ok. Spurs had all three and Barry at 20 points or more. While the Suns were missing JJ. Not excuses just the way it is.

If they want to be champions like the Spurs then they need to step up.