Is face-guarding legal in the NBA?

[DazedAndConfused]

I noticed Battier employing a technique of putting his hand directly over Kobe's eyes whenever he shot. Is this legal in the NBA? I've certainly never seen anyone defend Kobe like that before.

[ChumpDumper]

NBA players are allowed to hold their hands up in the air, yes.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Yea it's legal.
Brad Miller does the same thing. I remember he pissed off KG in a SAC/MIN game doing that and KG was complaining about it just about everytime to the refs, but it's legal alright.

[DazedAndConfused]

No I'm talking about putting your hand directly in someone's face as they shoot nearly touching their eyes. I think this is an automatic technical foul in the NCAA, but am unsure what the rules are for the NBA.

[Purple & Gold]

Of course it's legal. Kobe does it all the time.

[ChumpDumper]

No I'm talking about putting your hand directly in someone's face as they shoot nearly touching their eyes.NBA players are allowed to hold their hands up in the air, yes.

[Purple & Gold]

No I'm talking about putting your hand directly in someone's face as they shoot nearly touching their eyes. I think this is an automatic technical foul in the NCAA, but am unsure what the rules are for the NBA.

As long as you don't touch them.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

No I'm talking about putting your hand directly in someone's face as they shoot nearly touching their eyes. I think this is an automatic technical foul in the NCAA, but am unsure what the rules are for the NBA.
Legal as well.

[DazedAndConfused]

Thanks bottomtooth, I was unsure if this was legal or not since I rarely see it used. Especially not on Kobe, damn it was effective though.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

The only people I've seen use the hand to the face defense to the closest it can be were Battier and Brad Miller. Other than those two, yes that's rare defense.

[JamStone]

It's also legal to move your feet laterally side to side to stay in front of a player. It's also legal to communicate with teammates on defense to tell them when picks and screens are coming from a blind side.

[lefty]

It's also legal to move your feet laterally side to side to stay in front of a player. It's also legal to communicate with teammates on defense to tell them when picks and screens are coming from a blind side.

:lmao

[DazedAndConfused]

It's also legal to move your feet laterally side to side to stay in front of a player. It's also legal to communicate with teammates on defense to tell them when picks and screens are coming from a blind side.

:), can you please tell this to the rest of the Lakers?

[Kriz-Maxima]

NBA players are allowed to hold their hands up in the air, yes.

[Dreamshake]

Well junior, if you just used some damn common sense before you posted.


Isn't everytime a defender jumping in the air with their hands up, some form of face guarding? LAWLS

[Findog]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7917328


"The Lakers failed to spread the floor and run the triangle offense all the way to a satisfactory conclusion. Instead, they depended far too much on letting Kobe go one-on-one against Shane Battier. Relentlessly hounded by Battier, Kobe was 11-for-33 — although it must be noted that Battier face-guarded Bryant on virtually every jumper. The last time I looked at the rule book, face-guarding was illegal."

[GuerillaBlack]

That guy is an idiot. This has been discussed at Clutchfans.

[Matchman]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7917328

so they are saying the refs miss the call on every possession?? i know kobe is one of the greatest baller now but can they stop riding on his cock once and give the credit to battier's good D?

[Purple & Gold]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7917328

Interesting.....

[Flopper]

Especially not on Kobe, damn it was effective though.

So is that the first time you see someone actually play defense on Kobe? It was pretty effective, yeah.

[bobbyjoe]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7917328

If true, this would be a pretty dang hard rule to enforce. Battier does get that really close to the face though.

[DazedAndConfused]

Yea that article made me wonder if this was legal or not. I remember when Kobe dropped 56 pts on Battier in 3 quarters, so I was wondering why he was able to D him up so good today. If that kind of face guarding is illegal then Battier got lucky it wasn't called.

[ChumpDumper]

I think it is a T in college (unsporstmanlike conduct), but that's kind of a tough one to judge shot-to-shot.

[Dreamshake]

Interesting.....


Stupid Lakers fan, wanting to believe craying lakers fan Journalist.


Here get to know this. It wasn't that hard to look up.

http://www.nba.com/media/rule_book_2006-07.pdf

And how terrible a job did this journalist do to not actually read the rule.


Face guarding is illegal. If you come from behind the player and put your hand around their head to guard their eyes. LOL.

Im sure he just read the glossary where it says

Face (eye) guarding. Listed under the Technicals section.

[Marklar MM]

I looked at the 06-07 rulebook. Face guarding is illegal if the opponent does not have possession of the basketball.

[ChumpDumper]

I believe it is a T to eye-guard a player who doesn't have the ball in the NBA.

Non pdf link:

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_12.html?nav=ArticleList

m. Eye guarding (placing a hand in front of the opponent's eyes when guard-ing from the rear) a player who does not have possession of the ball is illegal and an unsportsmanlike technical shall be assessed.

[JamStone]

Rosen is a dumb-ass.

What he is calling "face guarding" is illegal only when the player doesn't have possession of the ball and is trying to get the ball. It's for situations like a defender guarding the low post and then putting his hands over the guy trying to get position in the low post to receive a pass.

[Purple & Gold]

:blah :blah :blah :blah :blah

[Findog]

I just posted the link because somebody else had the same thought as DaC. I didn't watch the game.

[Findog]

so they are saying the refs miss the call on every possession?? i know kobe is one of the greatest baller now but can they stop riding on his cock once and give the credit to battier's good D?

Didn't watch the game, I just posted the link because Rosen echoed what DaC was complaining about.

[DazedAndConfused]

I gotta say Battier played the best D on Kobe of any player I've seen this season, including Bowen. He completely took away Kobe's outside game, and since Kobe wasn't getting calls when he took it to the rack he was completely ineffective all around.

[ChumpDumper]

The last time I looked at the rule book, face-guarding was illegalWhen was that, Charley? We should keep track to see if he acknowledges his dumbassery.

[Jeremy]

Well, the question now is:

WHY is it so rarely done??!

[Dreamshake]

in the almighty words of a very whiny lakers fan after some very sour grapes...


....interesting.

[DazedAndConfused]

Please STFU Dreamshake. When you beat us healthy then you can talk smack, until then enjoy your win against another undermanned team.

[Flopper]

Well, the question now is:

WHY is it so rarely done??!

b/c it's harder said than done...you could poke someone's eye out.

[Dreamshake]

Well, the question now is:

WHY is it so rarely done??!


I would think because to employ it the way battier does is almost impossible.

I can't imagine how on god green earth, chasing Kobe around screens, and curls that everytime kobe rose up battier was able to swing his hand right inbetween kobe's arm and under the ball just inches from his face. I don't know how he never once hit an arm, hit the face or anything. If I was Kobe I would of just stopped fading away and leaned into a couple of those drawing fouls...lol.

But then again, he might get hurt trying that.

[Dreamshake]

Please STFU Dreamshake. When you beat us healthy then you can talk smack, until then enjoy your win against another undermanned team.

We did..first game of the year. Moron. Oh in that game Bynum was a killer with 4 boards and 4 points.

[Matchman]

Well, the question now is:

WHY is it so rarely done??!

well players hate to play defense in general because...
A.) its not cool, swishing jumpers is cooler
B.) it takes a lot more energy to play D than outscoring ur opponents
C.) many players.coaches still think they can keep outscoring opponents (w/o any defense) to a championship
D.) most important: defense does NOT show on stat, so playing defense cant net a player a bigger contract.

as for the hand in the face D, its very hard to get a hand in the opponent's face without touching his head. the angle has to be just right so that your hand and arm goes thru between the opponent's shooting hands and his head.

[monosylab1k]

Next game against Houston, Kobe would be smart to just wear goggles and lean into Battier every chance he gets. He's fucking Kobe, he's gonna get that call, and Battier will quit with that technique or he'll foul out in about 30 seconds.

But that is some bad ass defensive strategy by Battier. That guy is a non-dirty Bruce Bowen.

[DazedAndConfused]

^^I agree Mono. Kobe will adjust if Battier tries this kind of defense again. And Kobe getting 4 free throws the entire game won't happen again, I can guarantee you that.

[Matchman]

^^I agree Mono. Kobe will adjust if Battier tries this kind of defense again. And Kobe getting 4 free throws the entire game won't happen again, I can guarantee you that.

thats the number of FTs Kobe will get if he keeps jacking up contested jumpers against an elite defender. how about flying into the paint DWade style? im sure he will get as many FTs as DWade gets

[MrChug]

I noticed Battier employing a technique of putting his hand directly over Kobe's eyes whenever he shot. Is this legal in the NBA? I've certainly never seen anyone defend Kobe like that before.


Is face-guarding legal in the NBA?

I can see your name is fitting, you know nothing about basketball. The fact is that that's the BEST defense against shooters.

I used to practice with my coach putting a broom in my face on every jumpshot. Made me hell of a shooter. I never faced anyone with a hand the size of broom.

[MrChug]

Damn! Do you guys know that's how 5-0 and Rodman defended almost every shooter?

[Findog]

Damn! Do you guys know that's how 5-0 and Rodman defended almost every shooter?

I was a little confused about the term "face-guarding." I thought surely he wasn't referring to getting your hands up to contest shots. It seems like if a defender were to do what DAC is talking about, all you have to do is lean in to draw the foul.

[Kriz-Maxima]

Yes but leaning in to a hand in front of your eyes is potentially dangerous.

[Findog]

Yes but leaning in to a hand in front of your eyes is potentially dangerous.

Why don't more guys do what Battier did? Is there a youtube up? I want to see this.

[Kriz-Maxima]

Guys do it, just not as effective.

[monosylab1k]

Yes but leaning in to a hand in front of your eyes is potentially dangerous.
Yeah. I don't see why Kobe didn't find a pair of goggles at halftime, looked at Battier and said "try it now MFer."

[Indazone]

They taught when I played JV basketball when you defend, to put your hand up in the guys face, just don't touch him. Anything to make the shot difficult.

[baseline bum]

I would think because to employ it the way battier does is almost impossible.

I can't imagine how on god green earth, chasing Kobe around screens, and curls that everytime kobe rose up battier was able to swing his hand right inbetween kobe's arm and under the ball just inches from his face. I don't know how he never once hit an arm, hit the face or anything. If I was Kobe I would of just stopped fading away and leaned into a couple of those drawing fouls...lol.

But then again, he might get hurt trying that.

That was impressive as hell. Battier's got my vote for DPOY this year.

[kingmalaki]

Please STFU Dreamshake. When you beat us healthy then you can talk smack, until then enjoy your win against another undermanned team.

Hmm, so if you guys had Gasol and beat us....would that have qualified as beating an undermanned team since we were missing Yao and Landry? Didn't your lone victory over us this season come when T-Mac got hurt in the game? Wouldn't you consider that an undermanned team? I guess no team should appreciate a win against us for the rest of the season since we don't have Yao, right?

So I guess your title in 87/88 shouldn't be appreciated...considering the Pistons weren't healthy when you beat them (remember the Isiah injury). I guess the title in 99/00 shouldn't be appreciated since Duncan missed the playoffs, right (defending champs). Or that year Derek Anderson got hurt and you beat the Spurs without him?

Need I go on??

[MrChug]

They taught when I played JV basketball when you defend, to put your hand up in the guys face, just don't touch him. Anything to make the shot difficult.

Exactly.

[GetNashty]

Why don't more guys do what Battier did? Is there a youtube up? I want to see this.
Raja Bell gets all up on him and puts hands in his faces like this. Battier did the best job one can hope for against this beast. Battier does the same great job everytime he plays Kobe, just sometimes Kobe will drop 40 anyway and make it seem futile. They've just gotta D him as well as possible and hope for the best.

I mean, even the 24pts tonight is misleading, because it's a Chuck-melo, 11/33. It's about as bad as Kobe's nights get.

[timvp]

"The Lakers failed to spread the floor and run the triangle offense all the way to a satisfactory conclusion. Instead, they depended far too much on letting Kobe go one-on-one against Shane Battier. Relentlessly hounded by Battier, Kobe was 11-for-33 — although it must be noted that Battier face-guarded Bryant on virtually every jumper. The last time I looked at the rule book, face-guarding was illegal. By the way David Robinson was a fvcking scrub. I hated that motherfvcker!!!!"Fixed.

[TDMVPDPOY]

next time when battier does that, why dont just jump into his hands and make it a defensive foul

[endrity]

I don't know why this is such a big deal. I see it all the times. Actually one of the best to do it was Marbury. He did against Kobe in that epic 2001 All Star game every time down the stretch.

People try to do it against Dirk all the time as well, since blocking his shot is damn near impossible.

The reason why more people don't do it is because:

1) Many more try to go for the block, or believe that it affects a shooter more if he has to adjust his arch on the shot.

2) It is very very easy to get fouls. Considering how close Battier was doing it on Kobe I am surprised he didn't adjust. All you have to do is fake a shot and make the defender react by trying to slip his arms in between yours, and then swing your arms so that they touch a defender's arm. Once there is contact, throw some acting for good measures, and it's a foul every single time. It's how Dirk generates most of the contact on him. Maybe Kobe was trying to prove a point, that he can score on Battier anytime. It might seem silly but Kobe is known to take challenges like these personally. I bet next time they meet he adjusts.

[spurspf]

Check out JV for the Spurs. He never tries for the block, I always just see his hand going for the shooters eyes. He doesn't touch them, though.

[travis2]

Read the rule again.

Putting your hand up in someone's face to contest the shot is NOT face-guarding.

Face-guarding is putting your hand in front of the opponent's eyes while guarding from the rear.

[JamStone]

Why don't more guys do what Battier did? Is there a youtube up? I want to see this.

I think there are a couple reasons. First of all, there are very few players that have the quickness, length, and commitment to do that to Kobe for consistently for over 40 minutes in a game. To do it a couple times in a game is one thing. Battier was committed to doing it every defensive possession. Secondly, as people have mentioned, it's not very easy to do that without getting some fouls. I have a feeling had Battier gotten a couple cheap fouls, he wouldn't have done it so aggressively the entire game. Lastly, when Kobe attacked the basket, he appeared frustrated because he didn't get several fouls he thought he should have gotten when he was bumped on his drives. That forced Kobe into being much more of a jump shooter yesterday. When a defender can play Kobe for his jumper instead of worrying about both that and his drives, you can play him closer and get up into his body to contest his jumpers more frequently. All of that said, it still takes a considerable amount of determination and commitment to do what Battier did consistently for well over 40 minutes to the most prolific scorer in the league.

[RonMexico]

I noticed Battier employing a technique of putting his hand directly over Kobe's eyes whenever he shot. Is this legal in the NBA? I've certainly never seen anyone defend Kobe like that before.

Everyone defends Kobe like that. This was just the only game where it seemed to affect his shot.

[hater]

jacque vaughn does this all the time. and Bowen also. Udoka and TP sometimes.

[The Franchise]

Please STFU Dreamshake. When you beat us healthy then you can talk smack, until then enjoy your win against another undermanned team.
I will say the same to you. :)

[m33p0]

Please STFU Dreamshake. When you beat us healthy then you can talk smack, until then enjoy your win against another undermanned team.
insert "Yao has a broken foot" comment here.

[DazedAndConfused]

I will say the same to you. :)

I really hope we play the Rockets in the post season.

[DazedAndConfused]

insert "Yao has a broken foot" comment here.

The difference is Yao isn't coming back this season, makes no sense to talk about him. David West, Dirk Nowitzki, Bynum, and Gasol ARE coming back.

[Indazone]

I really hope we play the Rockets in the post season.

I really hope we play the Lakers. Bring it on!

[Fabbs]

If all you making light of OP Dazed and Fuseds' question, then why is not hand guarding done to shooters by defenders all the time?

[endrity]

If all you making light of OP Dazed and Fuseds' question, then why is not hand guarding done to shooters by defenders all the time?

Seriously, try to read what people have written. There are 4-5 good posts that explain this in detail. It is very easy go get fouls on.

[remingtonbo2001]

The only people I've seen use the hand to the face defense to the closest it can be were Battier and Brad Miller. Other than those two, yes that's rare defense.

I believe you can catch Bowen doing it on occassion.

Personally, it's the most effective defense, but takes a lot of concentration and quick reflexes (to avoid fouling)

[Indazone]

Ya, and you forgot to mention that covering up the shooters eyes usually doesn't work. Makes it a bit more difficult but usually by the time you get your hand in the guys face, he's already got the basket imprinted in his mind, his body is going through the shooting motion and he's already got the release timed and typically he swishes the ball. So it's not something that affects really good shooters that much. Reggie Miller had a hand in his face for a lot of his shots but drilled most of them.

[JamStone]

If all you making light of OP Dazed and Fuseds' question, then why is not hand guarding done to shooters by defenders all the time?


In general, NBA players are lazy on defense.

In general, NBA perimeter players aren't capable of hanging 80 on a team.

Shane Battier is not lazy on defense, and Kobe is capable of hanging 80 on a team.

[Fabbs]

Seriously, try to read what people have written. There are 4-5 good posts that explain this in detail. It is very easy go get fouls on.
Seriously, I'd rather hear from some actual refs or those who have access to them for an accurate explaination vs speculation.
Looks likes its just as easy to not get fouls called as Battier demonstrated vs Kome. I don't buy the foul risk is the reason most NBA defenders do not utilise the hand face.

[DarrinS]

All defensive moves should be illegal.


Sincerely,


M. D'Antoni

[RonMexico]

Stupid Lakers fan, wanting to believe craying lakers fan Journalist.


Here get to know this. It wasn't that hard to look up.

http://www.nba.com/media/rule_book_2006-07.pdf

And how terrible a job did this journalist do to not actually read the rule.


Face guarding is illegal. If you come from behind the player and put your hand around their head to guard their eyes. LOL.

Im sure he just read the glossary where it says

Face (eye) guarding. Listed under the Technicals section.

Well, the author (Charley Rosen) rarely checks facts because he is an egomaniac. He also has copious errors in each article he writes which somehow gets past his "editors."

Probably the most important point is that he's big friends with Tex Winter, Phil Jackson and Jim Cleamons. He's also writing a book called "The pivotal season — How the 1971-72 L.A. Lakers changed the NBA." I don't think we should be surprised when the title team in his book has it's all-time winning streak on the line.

[Agloco]

Read the rule again.

Putting your hand up in someone's face to contest the shot is NOT face-guarding.

Face-guarding is putting your hand in front of the opponent's eyes while guarding from the rear.


Sounds more like a man-love rule to me.......

[endrity]

Seriously, I'd rather hear from some actual refs or those who have access to them for an accurate explaination vs speculation.
Looks likes its just as easy to not get fouls called as Battier demonstrated vs Kome. I don't buy the foul risk is the reason most NBA defenders do not utilise the hand face.

If you wanna hear it from the refs why do you post it here than, and not even read what others have said.

Yes, it's easy to get fouls. Dirk, Kobe, TMac, even Manu get a lot of calls by getting people to bait on their shot attemps.

The other thing is that, as I said, some people believe going for the block is better since it forces the shooter to change the arch on the shot.

[bobbyjoe]

In general, NBA players are lazy on defense.

In general, NBA perimeter players aren't capable of hanging 80 on a team.

Shane Battier is not lazy on defense, and Kobe is capable of hanging 80 on a team.

Doesnt Rip Hamilton extensively use the "hand right in your grill" defense like Shane Battier does?

I seem to remember one or 2 other NBA players who use it a lot, and for some reason I want to say Rip is one of them...

[RonMexico]

Doesnt Rip Hamilton extensively use the "hand right in your grill" defense like Shane Battier does?

I seem to remember one or 2 other NBA players who use it a lot, and for some reason I want to say Rip is one of them...

Tons of players use it: Rip, Nash, Bell...

[dallaskd]

NBA players are allowed to hold their hands up in the air, yes.

:lol

[Indazone]

Face Guarding is not illegal.

Now this is illegal defense!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4636212404926063161&q=reggie+evans+grabs+kamans+nuts&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[sickdsm]

I noticed Battier employing a technique of putting his hand directly over Kobe's eyes whenever he shot. Is this legal in the NBA? I've certainly never seen anyone defend Kobe like that before.


Basketball 101.


What do you think "get a hand in his face" means?
:rolleyes

[The Nba Is Rigged]

What a useless thread, you should just have asked "is playing defense legal in the nba"? Wow this was really silly.