Smart Growth MLK March/Petition Drive.

[MannyIsGod]

If you can’t join us at Erin's, plan on meeting up with us on the side of Martin Luther King Middle School that faces the Eastside Boys and Girls Club (3503 MLK) at 9:00.



We’ll be gathering signatures to send to mayoral and city council candidates to urge them to support renewable energy and energy efficiency instead of a polluting coal plant.



We will focus most of our attention on canvassing the crowd before and after the march. The march ends at Pittman-Sullivan Park, 1101 Iowa St. Upon arriving at the park, volunteers should meet next to the "Pittman-Sullivan Park" sign at the southeast corner of the park (the procession approaches this corner from Iowa St.) for a quick roundup before canvassing the people gathered for the events following the march. We will continue gathering signatures until???? (the event lasts until five), and carpool back to Erin's. Please give signed letters to Erin Zayko before leaving the march.



Also, please let me know you’ll be joining us, and provide me with a name and contact info ( cell phone # too if possible) so that we can keep connected and coordinate our efforts. If you are interested respond to [email protected]

[Guru of Nothing]

Manny, I see no relationship between San Antonio politicians and fucking coal. Am I missing something?

[MannyIsGod]

CPS has plans to build a new coal plant. I'll post the info.

[MannyIsGod]

Comment: Conservation a better option than CPS coal plant

Web Posted: 01/01/2005 12:00 AM CST

Erin Zayko
Special to the Express-News

City Public Service is about to spend $1 billion to build a new coal plant. In addition, the plant will burn $100 million in fuel each year for the next 30 years to fire its boilers. That adds up to $4 billion.

Not only will this plant cost a lot of money, it will unnecessarily emit a variety of harmful contaminants into our skies.

CPS says it is building one of the cleanest plants in the country while also reducing emissions at its existing coal plants, but let's look carefully at the facts.

The proposed plant would add a lot of pollution to our atmosphere: more than 6 million tons of carbon dioxide; 140 pounds of brain-damaging mercury; particles that trigger asthma and heart attacks; silica, which causes black lung disease; hydrochloric acid; sulfur dioxide; and nitrogen oxide. This pollution is dangerous and will affect citizens' health and the climate for the 30 to 50 years this plant is expected to run.

Carbon dioxide contributes to global warming. Almost every scientist who studies the problem agrees that the climate is changing and that the results will be bad for public health.

The impacts on Central Texas will be severe. We'll see more heat waves and droughts like we experienced in the late '90s, followed by torrential rains and floods. Far-fetched? Ask the flood control experts. They'll tell you we've had two 500-year floods and a 250-year flood in the past six years.

Almost every other industrialized country has agreed to limit their emissions of carbon dioxide. As a result, those limitations are now international law. Without U.S. compliance, trade sanctions may kick in, and we may end up paying $25 per ton for carbon emissions. Applied to all carbon dioxide emissions from this plant, this would add another $200 million a year to the cost of operating the facility.

Mercury causes brain damage. Less than one teaspoon of mercury can contaminate a 20-acre lake. The proposed plant would add up to 140 pounds of mercury to the air each year. If a pregnant woman eats mercury-contaminated fish, her child may suffer permanent brain damage, learning disabilities or attention deficits.

In economic terms, that means more taxes paid by the average citizen for programs for children with special needs. CPS says fish in the lake near the existing coal plants aren't contaminated, but fish in the San Antonio River have mercury levels that exceed EPA guidelines.

Silica causes black lung disease, and the proposed plant would emit five times more silica than the state standard, or effective screening level. Fine-particle pollution is known to trigger asthma and heart attacks. This plant would also expose people to levels of hydrochloric acid gas that exceed the state's effective screening level.

CPS will tell you these emissions would only exceed safe limits for a few hours each year, but such exposure can have serious health impacts.

This coal plant isn't needed. An internal CPS study has found that conservation measures could save 1.6 times more energy than this polluting plant will produce. Some energy conservation methods include tightening leaks, high performance windows and new high-tech lighting, appliances and air conditioners that use a third of the energy consumed by the systems most of us have in our homes today.

The choice that faces the city is simple. Would we be better off investing $1 billion into a polluting coal plant or investing that same money (or less) in making our homes and apartments cooler while reducing our electric bills?

That $1 billion divided by the 500,000 houses and apartments in the city is about $2,000 per home. That's a lot of efficiency.

Some say that San Antonians will never grasp energy conservation, but that's what they used to say about water conservation. San Antonio reduced water use by 30 percent and avoided spending billions of dollars to build an unneeded reservoir.

We don't need this plant. It will impact our health, and it will cost far more than energy efficiency.
Erin Zayko is a member of Smart Growth San Antonio.

[Duff McCartney]

But what can I do..I'm just....*looks around*....one man.

[Hook Dem]

But what can I do..I'm just....*looks around*....one man.
You can help pollution Duff by holding your breath for 3 days! :lol God knows the population wouldn't miss your wisecracks for a while! :lol

[Useruser666]

I want a nuclear plant.

[Clandestino]

If you can’t join us at Erin's, plan on meeting up with us on the side of Martin Luther King Middle School that faces the Eastside Boys and Girls Club (3503 MLK) at 9:00.



We’ll be gathering signatures to send to mayoral and city council candidates to urge them to support renewable energy and energy efficiency instead of a polluting coal plant.



We will focus most of our attention on canvassing the crowd before and after the march. The march ends at Pittman-Sullivan Park, 1101 Iowa St. Upon arriving at the park, volunteers should meet next to the "Pittman-Sullivan Park" sign at the southeast corner of the park (the procession approaches this corner from Iowa St.) for a quick roundup before canvassing the people gathered for the events following the march. We will continue gathering signatures until???? (the event lasts until five), and carpool back to Erin's. Please give signed letters to Erin Zayko before leaving the march.



Also, please let me know you’ll be joining us, and provide me with a name and contact info ( cell phone # too if possible) so that we can keep connected and coordinate our efforts. If you are interested respond to [email protected]

actually i think this is pretty fucked up... the parade is about Martin Luther King Jr and you guys are hijacking it for your environmental bullshit... I think you and your group should show some respect and pick another day.

[MannyIsGod]

actually i think this is pretty fucked up... the parade is about Martin Luther King Jr and you guys are hijacking it for your environmental bullshit... I think you and your group should show some respect and pick another day.

I respect your opinion, and I disagree. MLK fought for equality in this country, and the fact is that those plants hurt area's which are large black neighborhoods. At the public meeting 12/17, there was a LARGE turnout of minority leaders.

You're welcome to feel that way, however.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, and it's a march, it's about making a political statement. It's not a damn parade.

[timvp]

Admit it. You are doing it that day because coal is black.

[SpursWoman]

D'oh! :lol :lol

[MannyIsGod]

Admit it. You are doing it that day because coal is black.

:lmao

Cladestino, have you ever even BEEN to one of the MLK marches? I'm hoping that if you're going to lecture me on what does/should go on there you've at least gone.

[Hook Dem]

:lmao

Cladestino, have you ever even BEEN to one of the MLK marches? I'm hoping that if you're going to lecture me on what does/should go on there you've at least gone.
Meaning no disrespect to MLK, is there anything you haven't dipped your political fingers into?

[GoldToe]

I'm down with MLK!!!!

[MannyIsGod]

Sure, whatever politics doesn't effect, I don't mess with.

[Hook Dem]

Sure, whatever politics doesn't effect, I don't mess with.
Thank you for a straight answer!

[Extra Stout]

There's no way TCEQ should agree to let CPS build an enormous new coal plant without first taking a look at many, many other alternatives. Coal is cheap, but it is nasty dirty shit, especially the lignite that's used down here. Cheap or not, lignite should be one of the last options, not the first. We have hundreds of years of lignite left, but there is much work to be done to innovate ways to use it cleanly.

Are CPS's other units even MACT-compliant yet? SA has little industrial development, so I'll bet most if not all the point-source emissions come from the CPS plants. They should be putting effort into reducing emissions as much as possible on existing units before they start asking for enormous increases in their permit.

Hell, uber-conservative Houston is phasing in energy conservation. My house is Energy Star-compliant. It rocks -- my power bill in August for a 2000 sq ft house was $130. Why can't San Antonio do that?

Why can't CPS build a wind plant a couple hundred miles to the west? Wind power is cheap too, and it's not as if West Texas desert land is unaffordable. Yeah, upgrading cables is expensive, but oh well, so is environmental mitigation from burning coal. It will also be expensive when San Antonio has development restrictions placed upon it because of federal air compliance problems and the job market dries up.

What kind of process is this coal plant going to run? Is it a conventional plant with the same old sucky 35% thermal efficiency? State-of-the-art units exceed 60% thermal efficiency, which means their raw material costs can be 70% higher and yet still make electricity more cheaply.

CPS needs to take a look at what other cities in Texas are doing. SA seems to be behaving like it's 1980 and they can do the same old thing they've always done.

This isn't tree-hugger enviro-freak stuff. There is a ton of technology out there for clean, efficient, affordable, well-engineered power generation and people just need to take advantage of it. It doesn't sound like CPS is.

[MannyIsGod]

Fucking EXACTLY!!!!

There were so many people speaking up at the 12/17 meeting and I can't begin to understand WHY other alternatives that are both cheaper and enviromentaly friendly weren't considered first!

CPS promises to lower the emissions from the other plants if they build this one, but WHY AREN"T THEY DOING THAT ALREADY?

[Extra Stout]

CPS is asking for 140 pounds of mercury out of one brand-new plant when EPA is aiming for a nationwide 15-ton cap by 2018? Huh?

[Extra Stout]

Fucking EXACTLY!!!!

There were so many people speaking up at the 12/17 meeting and I can't begin to understand WHY other alternatives that are both cheaper and enviromentaly friendly weren't considered first!

CPS promises to lower the emissions from the other plants if they build this one, but WHY AREN"T THEY DOING THAT ALREADY?I think what CPS is trying to do is get this permit pushed through the state agency before EPA finishes up its new rules on coal-fired power plants. They'll be passing either a MACT or a cap-and-trade program on mercury.

That's why they want it now rather than in 20 years.

Don't put up with that crap.

[Useruser666]

Wind generated power is NOT cheap. It also requires tons of land. Land is not cheap. We already have coal plants in the area and that's probably why we are going for another one. Any new plant built will be VERY clean burning compared to the current ones in operation in the area. I wish nuclear was an option here or atleast in the area.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't know the specefics of how much Wind Generated power would cost compared to the coal, but the figures that CPS uses signify that coal is cheaper.

However, htere were some questions brought into account how these figures are calculated , I just don't have the info here. I need to see if I cna get copies of that.

Anyhow, what IS cheaper is focusing on conservation, and that is something CPS has completely written off.

[Hook Dem]

All kidding aside Manny, I think this is a good thing you are involved in. Good luck with it. P.S. if you got a petition, I'll sign it.

[Useruser666]

I don't know the specefics of how much Wind Generated power would cost compared to the coal, but the figures that CPS uses signify that coal is cheaper.

However, htere were some questions brought into account how these figures are calculated , I just don't have the info here. I need to see if I cna get copies of that.

Anyhow, what IS cheaper is focusing on conservation, and that is something CPS has completely written off.

Was it last year or the year before they had all those commercials about turning lights off and stuff? Kind of like those SAWS "Water Saver" things. I think getting a new plant may have to do with the huge growth of SA in the North/Northwest area. Toyota and the PGA stuff also are things to consider with the timing of this.

[Hook Dem]

One more thing Manny, have you ever driven out west on I-10 near Ft. Stockton. They have an unbelievable amount of wind generators on top of those mesas. Don't know if we would have enough wind here for that. I asked one man what they do when the wind isn't blowing and he said the wind always blows.

[Useruser666]

We should put a windmill on the political forum. Just think of the all the electricity we could be generating! :lol

[Hook Dem]

We should put a windmill on the political forum. Just think of the all the electricity we could be generating! :lol
Damn good idea 666 :lol

[Extra Stout]

Wind generated power is NOT cheap. It also requires tons of land. Land is not cheap. The Chihuahan Desert does not have expensive land, nor does West Central Texas. They don't even have to buy the land outright -- when phone companies build cell towers, they pay a lease to the landowners. You can still raise cattle and crops on wind farms. It just sucks for the birds who come flying through.

Wind costs are down below $0.04/kWh for large-scale farms. What's the unit cost on your latest CPS bill?


We already have coal plants in the area and that's probably why we are going for another one.CPS apparently is trying to maintain a balanced energy portfolio. Three years ago everybody and their grandma was building combined-cycle gas turbine units, which is why gas prices are now so high and so volatile. Pulverized coal looks like the cheapest option right now, so whaddya know, that's what the managers want to build.


Any new plant built will be VERY clean burning compared to the current ones in operation in the area.That's not good enough. CPS should have to complete its NOx, SO2, and particulate reduction projects on existing facilities before it can build this new unit. Their permit also should require them to meet the new restrictive mercury rules which they are trying to avoid.


I wish nuclear was an option here or atleast in the area.Why isn't it?

[Extra Stout]

One more thing Manny, have you ever driven out west on I-10 near Ft. Stockton. They have an unbelievable amount of wind generators on top of those mesas. Don't know if we would have enough wind here for that. I asked one man what they do when the wind isn't blowing and he said the wind always blows.Cities far from West Texas use that power. I bet SA already buys some of it. We have a statewide power grid.

The Panhandle is similarly windy.

Wind power is certainly not the only option, and I'm not some wind power freak, but this one technology illustrates that CPS needs to prove why they need to use coal, and a slide showing the lowest operating costs based upon today's market prices is not sufficient.

[Useruser666]

Why isn't it?

3-mile island ring a bell? I think nuclear is the way to go for energy production. Fussion is a ways off. Wind is much more expensive than coal, gas, or oil. Tidal generation is another alternative.

[Useruser666]

Cities far from West Texas use that power. I bet SA already buys some of it. We have a statewide power grid.

The Panhandle is similarly windy.

Wind power is certainly not the only option, and I'm not some wind power freak, but this one technology illustrates that CPS needs to prove why they need to use coal, and a slide showing the lowest operating costs based upon today's market prices is not suffici.ent

That is why they are using coal. Coal is much cheaper than anything else. Nuclear is much better but people just don't want a plant near them. It's also VERY expensive.

[Clandestino]

Oh, and it's a march, it's about making a political statement. It's not a damn parade.

march, parade..whatever.. it is people walking in the street... and you and your group are hijacking MLK Day for you own agenda.

[MannyIsGod]

How many march's again? Zero? So you don't know what the march is about? Just what you THINK it's about? What did MLK stand for?

Give me a break, I'll take you seriously should you decide to actually go to a march, THEN tell me we're doing something that goes against the spirit of the day. Also, check the initial post to see if we're going to be canvasing during the march.

[Extra Stout]

Wind is much more expensive than coal, gas, or oil. You can keep saying that, but I quoted you a price. $0.04/kWh. What are you paying now?


That is why they are using coal. Coal is much cheaper than anything else.Yeah, but three years ago everyone said the same thing about gas. Gas was the way to go. What happened?

They're forgetting the hidden costs. They draw a box around just CPS operations and pretend there is no surrounding community. Their calculations ignore the costs to San Antonio if it fails to meet SIP standards. In that case, all development citywide would be restricted. The city would lose all federal highway funding. They might limit how many days a week you could drive your car. How would that affect you? Would you want to live in San Antonio if that happened? What would happen to the economy?

The area has to meet ALL priority pollutant requirements, which would be much more difficult with additional unncessary power generation capacity grandfathered in to avoid new mercury regulations.

CPS does a song and dance on its website about how somehow they don't affect area pollution, despite contributing something like 30% of the NOx for the entire metropolitan area. They are trying to get over on you with this.


Nuclear is much better but people just don't want a plant near them. It's also VERY expensive.Nuclear is pretty cheap, actually. But everyone is afraid of it.

[MannyIsGod]

If the French can do it, we should be able to. You'd think those fuckers would be glowing.

[Useruser666]

You can keep saying that, but I quoted you a price. $0.04/kWh. What are you paying now?

Yeah, but three years ago everyone said the same thing about gas. Gas was the way to go. What happened?

They're forgetting the hidden costs. They draw a box around just CPS operations and pretend there is no surrounding community. Their calculations ignore the costs to San Antonio if it fails to meet SIP standards. In that case, all development citywide would be restricted. The city would lose all federal highway funding. They might limit how many days a week you could drive your car. How would that affect you? Would you want to live in San Antonio if that happened? What would happen to the economy?

The area has to meet ALL priority pollutant requirements, which would be much more difficult with additional unncessary power generation capacity grandfathered in to avoid new mercury regulations.

CPS does a song and dance on its website about how somehow they don't affect area pollution, despite contributing something like 30% of the NOx for the entire metropolitan area. They are trying to get over on you with this.

Nuclear is pretty cheap, actually. But everyone is afraid of it.


Coal was and still is cheaper than gas. Gas was going to be an alternate means but now it's price is out of control.

Your price for wind power is cost to generate, or cost to the consumer? And scale is a huge factor with wind power. We simply can not build enough wind mills to supply the demand. The start up costs of wind power are also more than that of fossil fuel systems. It has to be some of each source of energy, each used in their most efficient means.

[Spurminator]

I don't know much about all of this, but I don know that when we switched from TXU Energy to Green Mountain (wind-based), our bills were cheaper.

[Hook Dem]

I don't know much about all of this, but I don know that when we switched from TXU Energy to Green Mountain (wind-based), our bills were cheaper.
Where was that Spurm?

[Clandestino]

How many march's again? Zero? So you don't know what the march is about? Just what you THINK it's about? What did MLK stand for?

Give me a break, I'll take you seriously should you decide to actually go to a march, THEN tell me we're doing something that goes against the spirit of the day. Also, check the initial post to see if we're going to be canvasing during the march.

how long have you served in the military? zero days right...but in your posts you act like you know everything about it. basically, i don't have to go to an MLK march to know what it is SUPPOSED to be about.

MLK was a civil rights activist. i don't remember him having sit ins about coal plants.

[Spurminator]

Metroplex.

[Shelly]

One more thing Manny, have you ever driven out west on I-10 near Ft. Stockton. They have an unbelievable amount of wind generators on top of those mesas. Don't know if we would have enough wind here for that. I asked one man what they do when the wind isn't blowing and he said the wind always blows.

Speak of the devil...I took a picture of some on our way out to CA. Apolgies for the big picture. I'm too lazy to resize it.

http://tinypic.com/18jfj8

[Shelly]

If the French can do it, we should be able to. You'd think those fuckers would be glowing.

:lol I'm picturing Chevy Chase in Modern Problems.

There's a plant at San Onofre (http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=647) State Beach right by San Clemente. It's one of the most popular surfing areas in south Orange County. Maybe that's why the waves are good.

[scott]

We should build an bunker oil and petcoke plant.

[MannyIsGod]

how long have you served in the military? zero days right...but in your posts you act like you know everything about it. basically, i don't have to go to an MLK march to know what it is SUPPOSED to be about.



Go back and find a post where I act like I know everything about serving in the military.

[Useruser666]

I'm not saying that wind power is a bad idea in some areas, but there are a lot of things to consider.

[Extra Stout]

Here's a suggestion:

Delay any action on the permit for 18 months. Force CPS to demonstrate the need for additional capacity, which they have failed to do so far. If they are not going to cross the threshhold where they need the plant to ensure reliability until 2014, then don't grant the permit until 2009. An energy conservation program to reduce demand should be implemented before any capacity increase is approved.

We aren't just talking about environmental concerns here; since CPS is a regulated municipal utility, they are talking about a $750 million capital investment out of YOUR pockets -- if it's not truly justified, you should not assent to it. We're talking about a $500 hit per customer, even though that hit would be over several years. The later the plant is built, the better the state of the art will be, and the more the customer is going to get for that money. If the plant is operational before its capacity is needed, then its fixed costs just sit there and jack up the unit cost of your power.

Ensure that commissioning of the new unit cannot occur until ALL SO2, NOx, and particulate reduction projects at existing units and at the coal yard are completed and proven.

If for some reason the EPA has failed to promulgate the new mercury standards by whenever the permit is being processed, place mercury restrictions in the permit anyway, with either a cap-and-trade or a MACT requirement on CPS's total mercury emissions.

How does that sound?

[Useruser666]

How does that sound?

I don't really have a problem with what your saying and am usually on the eco side of things. The one thing about this is the huge growth we have going on in SA right now. The fight over those transmission lines is related to this as well. The Toyota plant and PGA resort will push demand really high before your purposel would come to fruition and that may be the problem. The costs between building the plant now and buying outside power have to be weighed.

On an interesting side note:

How many people know of SMI in Seguin? They are a steel mill/recycler located there. I went on a tour there once and picked up a few interesting facts. They use electricty to melt scrap steel and recast it into rebar and other raw steel goods. I was told they buy power from CPS here in SA. They use so much power that their electrical bill can reach $300,000 a month! During summer months CPS will ask them to shut down because there is not enough power to supply the increased demands of everyone running their a/c systems. They then get credits to use power during off peak hours. I think there is a definate need for more sources of power in this region, especially with the growth we are experiencing now.

[Extra Stout]

I don't really have a problem with what your saying and am usually on the eco side of things. The one thing about this is the huge growth we have going on in SA right now. The fight over those transmission lines is related to this as well. The Toyota plant and PGA resort will push demand really high before your purposel would come to fruition and that may be the problem. The costs between building the plant now and buying outside power have to be weighed.

On an interesting side note:

How many people know of SMI in Seguin? They are a steel mill/recycler located there. I went on a tour there once and picked up a few interesting facts. They use electricty to melt scrap steel and recast it into rebar and other raw steel goods. I was told they buy power from CPS here in SA. They use so much power that their electrical bill can reach $300,000 a month! During summer months CPS will ask them to shut down because there is not enough power to supply the increased demands of everyone running their a/c systems. They then get credits to use power during off peak hours. I think there is a definate need for more sources of power in this region, especially with the growth we are experiencing now.$300,000 a month and that is supposed to be huge? A chemical plant in Houston can have a bill of $5-$10 million a month and the Houston area has dozens of those. Then again, Houston is deregulated and independent power generators have built so much capacity in the area, all with brand-new, state-of-the-art, low-emissions units that comply with the SIP, that the conventional units from the old regulated utility are being shut down because they aren't economical. The plant I work at had a third-party company build a 800 MW plant nearby for our needs, and saved massive amounts of money compared to the way it was under regulation. It's more reliable power, too.

I guaran-damn-tee you it didn't cost any $750 million to build that unit, either.

Even in the old days, Houston had distributed generation all over town, not this cluster of capacity in one place like SA has.

If CPS is asking them to shut down, that means they are on an interruptible power contract, and in return get lower rates. Similarly, they get a price break by using off-peak electricity. If they needed firm power, they would be paying the higher price for it. It must work for them. Reprocessing scrap metal is a batch process, right? With a flexible production schedule, if I ran that business, I would want interruptible and off-peak power, too.

[Useruser666]

I'm sorry I was incorrect on the scale of what I said. It was $300,000 a day on peak days. Some months can be 5-7 million $.

[Extra Stout]

I'm sorry I was incorrect on the scale of what I said. It was $300,000 a day on peak days. Some months can be 5-7 million $.With that scale of usage, they are throwing away money with CPS. They probably are the single largest user in Texas still buying power from a public utility, and thus are hemorrhaging tens of millions per year.

[Sec24Row7]

There is really no long term incentive to doing windmills in west texas.

They look like great ideas in the short term and the government pays you big subsidies for them.

But they kill birds, and the actual death of the birds isn't a big deal, it's that in order for the windmills to work properly and efficiently, they have to be clean.

So what ends up happening? They clean the windmills, with detergent and chemicals.

No thanks, as a former owner of a lot of land in West Texas, I'm just not interested in getting a bunch of money up front and then having the same people that encouraged me to build windmills take that same money away from me or my family 50 years later because the ridge where my wind bank was now is a chemical waste dump.

[Useruser666]

With that scale of usage, they are throwing away money with CPS. They probably are the single largest user in Texas still buying power from a public utility, and thus are hemorrhaging tens of millions per year.

That figure was for PEAK output. It was much less on a regular basis. Call them and ask for current figures if you would like to.

The neat part of the recycling proccess involves lowering large steel elctrodes into these huge cauldrons filled with scrap metal. The elctrodes glow like a huge arc welder. The elctrodes are like 12 feet long or so by a little more than a foot in diameter and are melted as they liquify the scrap metal in the pots. It's a very hot, loud, and noisey thing to witness. It's interesting to watch the molten steel boil and bubble as it is heated and trace elements are added.

[Extra Stout]

That figure was for PEAK output. It was much less on a regular basis. Call them and ask for current figures if you would like to. Oh. In that case, yeah, they're running their business the right way.

[JoeChalupa]

Martin Luther King, Jr. was a great man.

[Clandestino]

Martin Luther King, Jr. was a great man.

and manny plans to use his day to try to get support for his cause..very respectful.

[MannyIsGod]

Heh, yes, because a BETTER way to honor an activist would be to ignore the issues important to me. I'm sure that's what King would have wanted.

[Marcus Garvey]

Before King there was me, the real king.

[Hook Dem]

Be careful Manny! This could happen to you Walking through the woods, a man comes up to another man hugging a tree with his ear firmly against the tree. Seeing this he inquires, "Just out of curiosity, what the heck are you doing?" "I'm listening to the music of the tree." "You gotta be kiddin' me." "No, would you like to give it a try?" "Well, OK..." So he wraps his arms around the tree and presses his ear up against the tree. With this the other guy slaps a set of hand cuffs on him, takes his wallet, jewelry, car keys, then strips him bare ass naked and leaves.
Two hours later another nature lover strolls by, sees this guy
handcuffed to the tree, bare ass naked, and asked, "What the heck happened to you?" He tells the guy the whole story about how he got there. While he was telling his story, the other guy shakes his head in sympathy, walks around behind him, kisses him behind the ear and says..."Ya know sweetheart, this just ain't your day."

[Clandestino]

Heh, yes, because a BETTER way to honor an activist would be to ignore the issues important to me. I'm sure that's what King would have wanted.

i never knew MLK jr was a big environmentalist. i'm sure he'd think you were a schmuck for using his day of rememberance to fight for something other than he died for....

[MannyIsGod]

Yes, because the man who's words below would not think this was something worth fighting for.



Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

Our nettlesome task is to discover how to organize our strength into compelling power.

A man who won't die for something is not fit to live.

There is nothing more dangerous than to build a society, with a large segment of people in that society, who feel that they have no stake in it; who feel that they have nothing to lose. People who have a stake in their society, protect that society, but when they don't have it, they unconsciously want to destroy it.


The more you post, the more it becomes obvious that you have very little idea what ideals King stood for outside of the context of racial equality.

It's not about enviromentalism, it's about standing up for something believed in.

[Useruser666]

Yes, because the man who's words below would not think this was something worth fighting for.



The more you post, the more it becomes obvious that you have very little idea what ideals King stood for outside of the context of racial equality.

It's not about enviromentalism, it's about standing up for something believed in.

I have nothing against your message, but I find the day you're choosing to spread it puzzling for two reasons. I just don't know how many of the other people who will marching/celebrating will accept you and your group spreading a message that is not quite in the same spirit as the holiday was orignally envisioned. I also question your picking that for the simple reason that the statement you're trying to make will most likely get lost in the much bigger festivities that will be going on. It would be akin to whispering at a Spurs game after a Rasho dunk.

[MannyIsGod]

Once again, you guys need to actually go to an MLK march. There's a reason this day is being selected.

[MannyIsGod]

And I'm not being an asshole, but since I don't expect any of you to be out there in a few hours, here's some enlightenment.



King's mission is remembered

Web Posted: 01/17/2005 12:00 AM CST

Simone Sebastian
Express-News Staff Writer

On the day of the week once deemed America's most segregated, people from an array of religions, races and political persuasions gathered in San Antonio churches and on street corners Sunday to prepare for a common dream.


Inside the doors of Trinity Baptist Church, traditional Sikh turbans rose above the pews alongside the colorful, ornate hats common in black churches during an annual interfaith sermon celebrating the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

Elsewhere, activists painted signs and people reaffirmed their convictions for equal rights in preparation for San Antonio's annual march down Martin Luther King Drive today.

As many as 70,000 people are expected to join the Martin Luther King Jr. Day parade for civil rights and social issues, the holiday's largest march in the United States.

The Rev. Claude Black rejoiced in the Trinity Baptist congregation's diversity during the 18th annual interfaith service, held in King's honor. He also recalled the San Antonio of the 1960s, when he entered the Majestic Theatre through its back door and avoided Alamo Heights after dark, fearing retaliation from police.

Though things have changed, he said, people must still be reminded to look beyond differences to discover common goals.

"We have these celebrations, we talk about Martin Luther's dreams, we talk about everything Martin Luther King ever did," Black preached to a standing ovation. "We've used that dream up. It's time for us to do some of our own dreaming."

Huddling beneath fleece blankets outside the Eastside Boys & Girls Club later Sunday night, those who only know King's convictions through history books traded ideas by candlelight on how to keep the civil rights leader's mission alive.

"You shouldn't judge people by their race," 10-year-old Montranique Peralta said.

At the Esperanza Peace and Justice Center, volunteers sat around a long table topped with buckets of markers and paint and large sheets of poster board, imagining new ways to declare the organization's anti-war cause through signs at today's march.

Executive Director Graciela Sánchez said the march's meaning, like King's social impact, stretches beyond the issues that the famed civil rights leader is best known for.

"Martin Luther King was an anti-war activist. This is where he was going in his last years," she said as volunteers considered a sign that read, in thin black letters, "Negotiate Don't Bomb!"




Changing MLK March still biggest

Web Posted: 01/16/2005 12:00 AM CST

Lisa Marie Gómez
San Antonio Express-News

The route has changed and its purpose has widened, but the stature of San Antonio's MLK March remains the same — the largest in the nation.

Almost 70,000 people are expected to gather Monday for the annual march honoring the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., the civil rights leader and proponent of nonviolence who was gunned down by an assassin in Memphis, Tenn., in 1968.

Although the focus of the march will be on King and his championing of the civil rights movement, it has come to embrace an array of ideas and causes — labor rights, affirmative action, peace, and greater equality for minorities, gays and lesbians.

The march is set to begin at 10 a.m. from the Eastside Boys & Girls Club/MLK Freedom Bridge at 3500 MLK Drive.

But this year, instead of ending at MLK Plaza, where a wreath has traditionally been placed at the foot of the statue commemorating King, the march will end at Pittman-Sullivan Park on Iowa Street, where an award-winning gospel quartet will fill the air with foot-stomping harmonic tunes.

For the first time since it began 18 years ago, the MLK Commission changed the 3-mile route to accommodate more people at the end and to avoid any problems from ongoing construction on Houston Street. The commission also wanted to open up the streets so EMS vehicles could get in and out more quickly if necessary.

The march has come a long way from its humble beginnings, local activists said. But how did it get to be the largest in the nation, despite the African American population here only being about 6 percent?

Cities with larger African American populations, such as Memphis, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Washington and Detroit, have celebrations to honor King, but none draws more than the march in San Antonio.

Denver, which claims to have "one of the nation's largest MLK Day marches," drew an estimated 30,000 people last year.

"The march is large because it basically struck a chord in San Antonio," said Morris A. Stribling, a former chairman of the MLK March and a former commissioner of the MLK Commission.

Susan Ives, a peace advocate who is a staff member at the Peace Center and a columnist on the opinion page of the San Antonio Express-News, credits the MLK Commission for welcoming and inviting various groups to join the march.

"I suspect that other cities are more turf-oriented and perhaps view it as an exclusively African American event," she said.

Richard Lewis, 50, who grew up in San Antonio and remembers when King led the 1963 march in Washington that ended with his famous "I Have a Dream" speech, said the local march has been broadened to allow groups that are striving for elements of the American dream.

San Antonio, he said, should be a model for other cities.

"I hate to sound like a homer, but San Antonio is a very, very unique place as a city," said Lewis, an associate professor of sociology and special assistant to the president of the University of Texas at San Antonio.

"When you look at the embodiment in civil rights in general, especially ethnic, racial and gender issues related to civil rights, what better place than San Antonio to exemplify the dream?" he said.

The march, which Lewis calls a "walking history pictorial for young people," is about inclusiveness that everyone has a right to pursue.

And that includes the gay and lesbian community, which isn't always welcome in some civil rights circles.

Lewis said, "The civil rights movement was a lightning rod for several groups that have historically been locked out," but not everyone agrees.

Some feel the movement for racial equality led by King is sometimes "hijacked" by certain groups to further their own causes.

"In the minds of most African Americans, the gay and lesbian movement has really no relationship to the civil rights movement because they believe that gays and lesbians actually have a choice as to which sexual orientation they choose," said Stribling, who said he also believes this to be true.

"But if you were African American and born in this country, you didn't have very many choices, as far as where you could live, what kind of income you could achieve and what kind of wealth you could accumulate."

Nevertheless, if gays and lesbians show up to march, no one will object, he said.

"If you are a minority of any fashion, whatever that might be, you just kind of relate to the civil rights movement and you'll march for whatever rights you think you deserve."

Look, you guys are entitled to your opinions and there is no right or wrong in whether or not you believe this is hijacking his day. It's simply an opinion.

But I'm almost positive that people who think that, won't be out there. I KNOW Cladestino won't be marching, and I'm pretty sure you won't be out there Chris.

There's are several reasons for doing this, but most importantly because the majority of the people who show up to these events are people who CARE. People who care about issues, and people who show an interest beyond throwing around opinions on a forum on the web. It's the same people I see at meetings, protests, and in the general activist community. These are the people who will actually take a stand on issues the way MLK believed in doing.

I simply figured maybe some of the people in here might be interested in that. If you're not, that's fine. But honestly, before telling me that it's a hijacking, you should know what the event and the people who are putting on the event stand for. You should also know what MLK stood for outside of the 3 paragraphs that were in your high school history book.

[Useruser666]

And I'm not being an asshole, but since I don't expect any of you to be out there in a few hours, here's some enlightenment.





Look, you guys are entitled to your opinions and there is no right or wrong in whether or not you believe this is hijacking his day. It's simply an opinion.

But I'm almost positive that people who think that, won't be out there. I KNOW Cladestino won't be marching, and I'm pretty sure you won't be out there Chris.

There's are several reasons for doing this, but most importantly because the majority of the people who show up to these events are people who CARE. People who care about issues, and people who show an interest beyond throwing around opinions on a forum on the web. It's the same people I see at meetings, protests, and in the general activist community. These are the people who will actually take a stand on issues the way MLK believed in doing.

I simply figured maybe some of the people in here might be interested in that. If you're not, that's fine. But honestly, before telling me that it's a hijacking, you should know what the event and the people who are putting on the event stand for. You should also know what MLK stood for outside of the 3 paragraphs that were in your high school history book.

Yeah you're freaken right I won't be out there. But you know why that is? I don't have a day off from work to be there. My company doesn't allow for this holiday. So I don't have the free time to participate.

I don't believe you are hijacking the event, but for the reasons I stated earlier, your intentions are good. I do not like being lectured to and told I'm ignorant of something from someone who has no idea how much knowledge I have on a subject. Does the truly righteous chastize the ignorant? I don't think King's message was you're dumb if you don't come to my parade.

[MannyIsGod]

And thats not what I meant. Don't take it that way. My intentions of that last post werne't to put anone on the defensive.

[Hook Dem]

And thats not what I meant. Don't take it that way. My intentions of that last post werne't to put anone on the defensive.
It sure sounded that way to me!

[JoeChalupa]

I too had to work today but my kids and wife are marching.

[JoeChalupa]

Percent of employers who give all or most workers a paid holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr.: 26

[MannyIsGod]

The march was spectacular. We got a great response, as well as all of the other groups there. Great freaking march.

[violentkitten]

fuck yeah fuck the white man

[Useruser666]

Exactly what march did you go to again Manny? :lol

http://img84.exs.cx/img84/6199/mannyiskkk9xi.jpg

[Shelly]

:lol

[Duff McCartney]

Classic pic.... :lol

[Useruser666]

oh, shit.... :lmao



-SW

[Hook Dem]

Exactly what march did you go to again Manny? :lol

http://img84.exs.cx/img84/6199/mannyiskkk9xi.jpg
That is some funny shit! :lol

[JoeChalupa]

D'oh!

[Brodels]

Percent of employers who give all or most workers a paid holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr.: 26

I'm just not in favor of the holiday. It shouldn't exist. If you start giving holidays to civil rights leaders, you've got to consider some others that were as influential as King was. And if you consider civil rights leaders, haven't you got to consider women's suffrage leaders? And who else?

As great as King was, it's certainly valid to argue that several other Americans were just as great. And while the holiday may really celebrate what King stood for and the success of the civil rights movement, it doesn't make it any more important than some other movements of the past.

I have nothing against King, but if you start giving out holidays to people other than those that directly did extraordinary things for the nation as leaders of all the people, you've got to celebrate many other people and things.

It may be unpopular, but I'm against the holiday.

[bigzak25]

i'm for it. i wish we got the day off too, but i'm keeping hope alive.