Rockets winning streak is impressive

[DarrinS]

That said, Spurs still owe those bitches for 1995.

[duncan228]

It is impressive.
It's so impressive there's a 10 page thread on it in the NBA Forum.

[DAF86]

how awesome would be for the spurs to end this streak

[Jimcs50]

not as impressed when you look at their luck. they have played every contender when they were missing a key player, and tomorrow they get Boston on night after we play them..... Which we have to play Boston on St Patricks Day, for God's sake.

[DDS4]

Until they get out of the 1st round with TMac, who gives a shit.

[cheguevara]

Is it true only 9 of those teams are over 50%?

if true, it is not that impressive

[DazedAndConfused]

Until they get out of the 1st round with TMac, who gives a shit.

What he said.

[SenorSpur]

Damn impressive!

Sean Elliott was on First Take this morning and he commented also on how impressive this streak is. He went on to state that 22 in a row is impressive - at any level - much less the NBA level.

[whottt]

not as impressed when you look at their luck. they have played every contender when they were missing a key player, and tomorrow they get Boston on night after we play them..... Which we have to play Boston on St Patricks Day, for God's sake.


Bingo...


In particular the best Rockets best opponents have not only been injured...but in fact, missing their top bigman.


The most impressive wins in this steak are the wins@Dallas and @LA...the Mavs who just so happened to be missing Dirk Nowitzki, and the Lakers were missing their stating C and PF.


Just like the Hornets were missing David West.




Don't get me wrong...22 wins in a row is impressive and a tribute to bringing consistent effort night in and night out...but they have been catching some teams shorthanded. And the teams have been shorthanded in the areas that are clearly the Rockets weakness...interior D.



In particular they have entirely avoided the one team that will exploit their inexperience, age and lack of athleticism in the paint...the Phoenix Suns.


Here are the teams the Rockets will struggle against...both in continuing this streak, and in the post season:

The Jazz
The Lakers(when healthy)
The Spurs
The Suns







You know how many of those teams they have played in this streak? Only the Lakers, and they were missing their starting C and PF.


The Jazz were the last team to beat them in fact.



It's pretty much a proven fact that Adelman teams adjust to losing a player to injury extremely well...they also capitalize on the injuries of other teams unflailingly...

This overachievement mentality tends to lead to the belief by themselves that they are better than they actually are, which in turn leads to whining disbelief by Adelman and all his players and fans of his teams as they are getting eliminated from the post season by those mean old referees.

[DazedAndConfused]

Bingo...


In particular the best Rockets best opponents have not only been injured...but in fact, missing their top bigman.


The most impressive wins in this steak are the wins@Dallas and @LA...the Mavs who just so happened to be missing Dirk Nowitzki, and the Lakers were missing their stating C and PF.


Just like the Hornets were missing David West.




Don't get me wrong...22 wins in a row is impressive and a tribute to bringing consistent effort night in and night out...but they have been catching some teams shorthanded. And the teams have been shorthanded in the areas that are clearly the Rockets weakness...interior D.



In particular they have entirely avoided the one team that will exploit their inexperience, age and lack of athleticism in the paint...the Phoenix Suns.


Here are the teams the Rockets will struggle against...both in continuing this streak, and in the post season:

The Jazz
The Lakers(when healthy)
The Spurs
The Suns







You know how many of those teams they have played in this streak? Only the Lakers, and they were missing their starting C and PF.


The Jazz were the last team to beat them in fact.



It's pretty much a proven fact that Adelman teams adjust to losing a player to injury extremely well...they also capitalize on the injuries of other teams unflailingly...

This overachievement mentality tends to lead to the belief by themselves that they are better than they actually are, which in turn leads to whining disbelief by Adelman and all his players and fans of his teams as they are getting eliminated from the post season by those mean old referees.

We can't argue with their results. 22 wins in the NBA is impressive no matter how you get them. It still does not mean that they have a shot against any legitimate WC contender though, which is the saddest part of all.

HOU's fan base, their team, etc. are all in for the biggest disappointment when they receive another early 1st round exit.

[hsxvvd]

If they had any brains at all they'd trade Ming this off-season.

[whottt]

If they had any brains at all they'd trade Ming this off-season.



This is true also...Yao is a bad fit for Adelaman, and IMO TMac(and Scola)...


The problem is that they won't get equal value in return for Yao.



And the biggest problem of all of course is the fact that Yao's game is perfectly suited to winning championships in the post season...whereas the game of Adelman is not.

[FromWayDowntown]

The 30 of 33 part of their streak (or whatever it is) reminds me a lot of the 1999 Spurs at the end of that regular season. With that said, I agree that there seems to be some good fortune involved in at least a few games. Even with that luck, there's certainly something to be said for playing confidently and with a belief that you're going to win -- not just a hope that you might win.

After this 4-in-5 that they start tomorrow night, the Rockets' schedule is pretty soft the rest of the way, too. What we all hope will be a tough roadie for them in SA (but after 3 full days off) they get 4 straight on the West Coast but no playoff teams (SAC, PRT, SEA, LAC). They have a stretch of 3 in the last week that includes PNX at home and road games at DEN and UTH, too. But on the whole, they finish up pretty easily.

[whottt]

I think might dodge another bullet by catching the Celts without Ray Allen, not to mention on the second night of a back to back.....I hate Ray Allen as much as the next guy...but his shooting is a real bitch...he's a fantastic freaking shooter.


Still...Garnett is going to present a challenge for the Rockets they haven't really had to deal with.


I'll say if Allen is healthy the Celtics definitely end the Rockets streak...if he isn't it will probably continue.

[whottt]

The 30 of 33 part of their streak (or whatever it is) reminds me a lot of the 1999 Spurs at the end of that regular season. With that said, I agree that there seems to be some good fortune involved in at least a few games. Even with that luck, there's certainly something to be said for playing confidently and with a belief that you're going to win -- not just a hope that you might win.

After this 4-in-5 that they start tomorrow night, the Rockets' schedule is pretty soft the rest of the way, too. What we all hope will be a tough roadie for them in SA (but after 3 full days off) they get 4 straight on the West Coast but no playoff teams (SAC, PRT, SEA, LAC). They have a stretch of 3 in the last week that includes PNX at home and road games at DEN and UTH, too. But on the whole, they finish up pretty easily.



I could easily see the Rockets dropping 4 out of their next 7....to Boston, New Orleans, Phoenix and SA.


The only one of those teams they have beaten in this streak is New Orleans...and they've beaten them twice, but once they were missing David West.

[Solid D]

When is someone going to bring up Brent Barry and Luis Scola in this thread?

[Solid D]

Oh, I see (Scola) was added, good one!

[robbie380]

Just like the Hornets were missing David West.

just FYI the rockets beat the living crap out of the hornets when they did have west earlier in the streak.

also, we have been missing carl landry for the past 5 games. we have sorely been missing his energy, rebounding, and scoring but still continue to win. and he isn't just some random rookie we can live without. the guy has been phenomenal since he has started playing.

oh yeah and we are missing some chinese guy that we had won 16 in a row with when he was healthy.

anyhow...i am excited about the boston game tuesday. it will be a good measuring stick. i still believe the rockets will win but we need landry back because i am afraid scola will get in foul trouble too quickly against kg.

oh yeah and we need t-mac to quit being a bitch and act like he actually wants to be out on the court. that had to be the saddest thing i have ever watched at a basketball game. kobe was just embarrassing him and princess t-mac looked like he didn't give a damn. :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss

...moving on from my rant...my point is just that the rockets haven't lucked their way to 31-4 this year. it's been awhile but we actually have an entire team with good talent and heart (well one questionable heart).

[whottt]

When is someone going to mention that the Rockets recent defensive surge is likely due to the fact that nearly every good team they have played has been devoid of it's top interior scoring threat.


I wouldn't expect a guy citing their excellent defense to bring that up...but I'd think someone would.

[Solid D]

Luck is not really much of a factor. The Rockets are fun to watch, as far as I'm concerned. They look like the Spurs look when they are hitting on all cylinders, offensively and defensively.

The Rockets' defense under Rick's direction is what is surprising people. Rick is more of an offensive mind but it looks like this team has kept the defensive intensity preached by Van Gundy in previous years.

[whottt]

Excuse


IF you'd ever seen Rick Adelman coach prior to this season you'd know none of that is really relevant. He squeezes offense out of bigmen like TMac squeezes choke out of a first round playoff series.


Not the same thing due to the nature of Adelman's teams.



We gave you credit for winning 22 in a row, but you seek credit for beating elite teams when they weren't elite. You aren't going to get it....now matter how many excuses you have.


You can't claim greatness on the grounds of your 22 game winning streak and then claim poor little us simultaneously.


Which is it...are you 22 wins in a row good, or are you beat up and vulnerable in the paint?

[DazedAndConfused]

When is someone going to mention that the Rockets recent defensive surge is likely due to the fact that nearly every good team they have played has been devoid of it's top interior scoring threat.


I wouldn't expect a guy citing their excellent defense to bring that up...but I'd think someone would.

They play great perimeter defense but their INTERIOR defense is horrid. If we had Bynum or Gasol we would have dominated their midget front court, owning them on the glass and with points in the paint. They are extremely lucky the Lakers were down the one piece they needed the most to exploit HOU.

[cherylsteele]

Remember though the Rockets are missing Yao a good part of this stretch too so even though other teams are missing one there stars, so are the Rockets.

[whottt]

Luck is not really much of a factor. The Rockets are fun to watch, as far as I'm concerned. They look like the Spurs look when they are hitting on all cylinders, offensively and defensively.

The Rockets' defense under Rick's direction is what is surprising people. Rick is more of an offensive mind but it looks like this team has kept the defensive intensity preached by Van Gundy in previous years.


Adelman has had some good defensive teams in the past, but what he coaches isn't fundamental defense...he's more of the hack and swipe school.


The Kings actually had 1 or 2 really good defensive teams...but ultimately, they weren't a true defensive team. And neither are the Rockets....as Mr. Duncan is going to prove.

[Indazone]

Still not Van Gundy's stodgy defense which relies on court spacing on offense to bring all the defensive players back at the same time because of the offensive spacing.

No, this is Rick's defense particularly the same principles that he had in Portland. But the Rockets do defense right. Force bad shots and players into position where they don't want to take their shots. Good help defense and double teams. Portland also had a very highly rated defense when Adleman was there.

[whottt]

Remember though the Rockets are missing Yao a good part of this stretch too so even though other teams are missing one there stars, so are the Rockets.


And some of us would say that actually helped the Rockets, because Yao doesn't really fit that team.


22 wins is impressive...but it doesn't make you a world beater.

[DazedAndConfused]

It's a catch 22 with Yao, he is needed for them to win in the post-season but he also hinders a lot of what they do. IMHO they are best off getting rid of him now while his value is high.

If you look at a guy like Rafer Alston, it's no coincidence he's having a career year now that Yao is out. When Yao is in the game, he is the focal point of the offense. Alston is needed to distribute the ball more and to score less. This really limits his strengths since he is not a good PG in that sense, he is a scoring PG much like Tony Parker.

[bobbyjoe]

When is someone going to mention that the Rockets recent defensive surge is likely due to the fact that nearly every good team they have played has been devoid of it's top interior scoring threat.


I wouldn't expect a guy citing their excellent defense to bring that up...but I'd think someone would.

How many teams nowadays have a great dominant big anyway?

And dont bring up Dirk or West. Both are jump shooting/turn and face big men. These arent the kind of guys who are going to dominate in the paint and take advantage of the undersized Houston PF's on the boards and in the post like Lamar Odom did yesterday.

The guys likely to exploit Houston are a Tim Duncan, Shaq type who are big and play big. There are just aren't too many of those in the league. Even KG is not a true dominant interior player.

It also must be noted that Carl Landry has been out for Houston for 5 games. if he comes back, that helps the interior issues in a major way.

I think you make some good points overall, but I would refrain from including the Jazz in that list. Carlos Boozer is a great PF, but Chuck Hayes defends him extremely well. Hayes is undersized, so he has no hope against a Duncan, Stoudemire (too athletic and quick), Shaq, Gasol but Boozer is also an undersized turn and face PF. Boozer cant necessarily overpower guys like Scola/Landry and Hayes down low.

Where was David West's impact when he was on the court against Houston on a back to back and the Hornets lost by 20 at home?

[DazedAndConfused]

How many teams nowadays have a great dominant big anyway?

And dont bring up Dirk or West. Both are jump shooting/turn and face big men. These arent the kind of guys who are going to dominate in the paint and take advantage of the undersized Houston PF's on the boards and in the post like Lamar Odom did yesterday.

The guys likely to exploit Houston are a Tim Duncan, Shaq type who are big and play big. There are just aren't too many of those in the league. Even KG is not a true dominant interior player.

It also must be noted that Carl Landry has been out for Houston for 5 games. if he comes back, that helps the interior issues in a major way.

I think you make some good points overall, but I would refrain from including the Jazz in that list. Carlos Boozer is a great PF, but Chuck Hayes defends him extremely well. Hayes is undersized, so he has no hope against a Duncan, Stoudemire (too athletic and quick), Shaq, Gasol but Boozer is also an undersized turn and face PF. Boozer cant necessarily overpower guys like Scola/Landry and Hayes down low.

Where was David West's impact when he was on the court against Houston on a back to back and the Hornets lost by 20 at home?

They had Yao Ming for that game. Change your team affiliation to HOU please, you ain't fooling anyone.

[bobbyjoe]

It's a catch 22 with Yao, he is needed for them to win in the post-season but he also hinders a lot of what they do. IMHO they are best off getting rid of him now while his value is high.

If you look at a guy like Rafer Alston, it's no coincidence he's having a career year now that Yao is out. When Yao is in the game, he is the focal point of the offense. Alston is needed to distribute the ball more and to score less. This really limits his strengths since he is not a good PG in that sense, he is a scoring PG much like Tony Parker.

You do realize that Rafer Alston was having a career year before Yao got hurt, right?

The guy (Alston) is purely a stand still 3 point shooter and you are arguing he improves in value when a 7'6" 22/10 guy who creates wide open shots for perimeter players is gone?

My, oh my. With Yao out, it's a helluva lot easier to stay at home on Alston/Battier/etc.

No team in the NBA will give up fair value for Yao Ming with his injury issues. He's going to be looked on as damaged goods if/until he proves he can stay healthy.

People need to realize that it's possible to turn it on for a few games with your main gun out due to grit/effort. But for the long haul, you'll get exposed.

It's only been 10 games for Houston without Yao. One hot game by Rafer doesnt mean he's becoming the 2nd coming because Yao is gone.

[whottt]

They had Yao Ming for that game. Change your team affiliation to HOU please, you ain't fooling anyone.


LOL...that's his first direct Rockets related post ever...all his other posts having been defending Hakeem under the guise of being an objective LakerFan..


Glad he finally gave up the ghost...and I'm glad someone else besides me finally saw him for the Rocket Fan he has always been :tu

[bobbyjoe]

They had Yao Ming for that game. Change your team affiliation to HOU please, you ain't fooling anyone.

Wait, I thought "Ewing theory: better without Yao"?

Which is it?

Are they better off without Yao, as you contend in half your posts?

Or are they going to exposed without Yao and wins they had with Yao dont mean much because the team is no longer built the same, as you contend in the other half?

P.S. You can be a fan without resorting to arrogance, showboatery, and chest beating as you do in your posts. You dont have to act like a royal ass to fans of other teams to prove your fanhood.

[whottt]

How many teams nowadays have a great dominant big anyway?

And dont bring up Dirk or West. Both are jump shooting/turn and face big men. These arent the kind of guys who are going to dominate in the paint and take advantage of the undersized Houston PF's on the boards and in the post like Lamar Odom did yesterday.

The guys likely to exploit Houston are a Tim Duncan, Shaq type who are big and play big. There are just aren't too many of those in the league. Even KG is not a true dominant interior player.

It also must be noted that Carl Landry has been out for Houston for 5 games. if he comes back, that helps the interior issues in a major way.

I think you make some good points overall, but I would refrain from including the Jazz in that list. Carlos Boozer is a great PF, but Chuck Hayes defends him extremely well. Hayes is undersized, so he has no hope against a Duncan, Stoudemire (too athletic and quick), Shaq, Gasol but Boozer is also an undersized turn and face PF. Boozer cant necessarily overpower guys like Scola/Landry and Hayes down low.

Where was David West's impact when he was on the court against Houston on a back to back and the Hornets lost by 20 at home?


I'm going to disagree with your opinion on Garnett and Dirk and the way they will match up against the Rockets...they most certainly are dominant enough...

Dirk is tricky because you guys have defended him estensively with TMac in the past and TMac does an excellent job of that...but I'm going to say Adelman won't want to do that this time around and Dirk will abuse the Scola/Mutombo front court.



I agree...Landry or Hayes, not Scola will be drawing any tough defensive asignments in the fourth...as they have been doing it in this 22 game streak as well.

[Solid D]

The players were already committed to defense and that has clearly helped this year's Rockets team. Rafer said in an interview during the midst of this streak that he can still hear Van Gundy's voice in his head about not letting guys get into the middle.

This team is more like the Sacramento Adelman though. Elston Turner and TR Dunn and Sikma have adapted their defensive schemes depending on their opponents.

[DazedAndConfused]

Wait, I thought "Ewing theory: better without Yao"?

Which is it?

Are they better off without Yao, as you contend in half your posts?

Or are they going to exposed without Yao and wins they had with Yao dont mean much because the team is no longer built the same, as you contend in the other half?

P.S. You can be a fan without resorting to arrogance, showboatery, and chest beating as you do in your posts. You dont have to act like a royal ass to fans of other teams to prove your fanhood.

You spend an inordinate amount of time defending the Rockets for someone that is a supposed Laker fan. In fact, that's all you do.

[robbie380]

And some of us would say that actually helped the Rockets, because Yao doesn't really fit that team.


22 wins is impressive...but it doesn't make you a world beater.


just dismiss that the rockets had won 16 straight with yao in the lineup (he was sick for the utah loss) before he got knocked out for the year again.

to your 2nd point i don't think any rockets fans care about this streak if we end up doing nothing in the post season. it's been fun as hell to watch but we know what matters. there is no doubt in my mind that this team SHOULD get out of the first round. this TEAM is talented enough to get out of the first round and the season is a failure if we don't after this amazing run.

[DazedAndConfused]

Shit bobbyjoe let's just crown the Rockets 2008 NBA champs since they are so invulnerable.

[whottt]

The players were already committed to defense and that has clearly helped this year's Rockets team. Rafer said in an interview during the midst of this streak that he can still hear Van Gundy's voice in his head about not letting guys get into the middle.

This team is more like the Sacramento Adelman though. Elston Turner and TR Dunn and Sikma have adapted their defensive schemes depending on their opponents.



They are commited to defense like Flip Saunders Pistons have been commited to Larry Brown's defense....it's there, but the same emphasis won't be.

[whottt]

just dismiss that the rockets had won 16 straight with yao in the lineup (he was sick for the utah loss) before he got knocked out for the year again.

16 in a row does not = 22.

I pretty much think you wouldn't have won 22 games if Yao hadn't got injured. I think his injury allowed Adelman to game plan more according to his style, so basically you guys changed in mid-streak.

I look at your interior players...even with a healthy Landry...and I'm not worried at all.




to your 2nd point i don't think any rockets fans care about this streak if we end up doing nothing in the post season. it's been fun as hell to watch but we know what matters. there is no doubt in my mind that this team SHOULD get out of the first round. this TEAM is talented enough to get out of the first round and the season is a failure if we don't after this amazing run.

You guys probably won't be eliminated in the first round...unless you're playing us. Hope to see ya soon, in just that scenario...there is an ugly wrong that needs to be righted.


So by all means...keep celebrating that winning streak and hoping for Spurs losses...it'll only lock in that first round matchup LOSS, for you :tu

[Solid D]

Shane Battier is certainly committed to defense. He has been since he was at Duke and he's gotten better at it every year. All you have to do is watch...at least that's all I have to do.

[whottt]

Shane Battier is certainly committed to defense. He has been since he was at Duke and he's gotten better at it every year. All you have to do is watch...at least that's all I have to do.


So was Ben Wallace...even after Larry Brown was gone. Didn't mean the Pistons still were.

[bobbyjoe]

Shit bobbyjoe let's just crown the Rockets 2008 NBA champs since they are so invulnerable.

Not really. I "spend time defending the streak" because I always think it's lame in sports when a great achievement is minimized for weak reasons.

I did the same thing when Kobe Bryant scored his 81 and all we heard was "yeah, but it was the Raptors".

Did you read my post in the other thread? I still have LAL getting to the NBA Finals. I would definitely not expect the Rockets to win the title without Yao Ming, as I've said many times.

I mean do people not think the Lakers in 70 or Bucks in 71 had several easy games in their streaks? Of course they did, so acting like having a lot of easy games in a long streak is something exclusive to Houston is silly.

Ditto for Bryant. Did you not think it was ridiculous to hear Bryant's 81 critiquted because it was the Raptors? It's still 81 freaking points in the NBA! If it were that easy, why would it be the 2nd biggest scoring output of all time.

Ditto for David Robinson's 71 points. "Yeah, but it was the Clippers" said many.

I dont really post on here much to be honest but obviously this streak has been an interesting topic for all NBA fans, so I chimed in with thoughts. If you think that makes me a Rockets fan, so be it.

[robbie380]

IF you'd ever seen Rick Adelman coach prior to this season you'd know none of that is really relevant. He squeezes offense out of bigmen like TMac squeezes choke out of a first round playoff series.


Not the same thing due to the nature of Adelman's teams.



We gave you credit for winning 22 in a row, but you seek credit for beating elite teams when they weren't elite. You aren't going to get it....now matter how many excuses you have.


You can't claim greatness on the grounds of your 22 game winning streak and then claim poor little us simultaneously.


Which is it...are you 22 wins in a row good, or are you beat up and vulnerable in the paint?


where did i give excuses? you were giving excuses for teams losing to the rockets. so if you want to give excuses for teams losing to us then i have to remind you that we are not 100%. it's a catch 22....they can do no right. that's fine.

and even though we have been dominating rebounding and points in the paint we are vulnerable to a low post scorer. that was very evident when deke and anyone else on the rockets was trying to defend okafor. but the obvious counter point is that there simply are not many good low post scorers that are too big for us to defend. there is shaq if his fat ass can stay healthy. there is duncan. there are the lakers with odom, bynum, and gasol who are all too long for us to defend without yao.

yes, i know there is boozer as well but he falls in love with his jumper too much. also, i feel that our power forward trio of scola, landry, and hayes can cancel him out.

and at no point did i claim greatness. i just stated that this TEAM is more talented than you would like to believe.

[DazedAndConfused]

16 in a row does not = 22.

I pretty much think you wouldn't have won 22 games if Yao hadn't got injured. I think his injury allowed Adelman to game plan more according to his style, so basically you guys changed in mid-streak.

I look at your interior players...even with a healthy Landry...and I'm not worried at all.




You guys probably won't be eliminated in the first round...unless you're playing us. Hope to see ya soon, in just that scenario...there is an ugly wrong that needs to be righted.


So by all means...keep celebrating that winning streak and hoping for Spurs losses...it'll only lock in that first round matchup LOSS, for you :tu

How sweet would it be if the Rox held onto the #1-2 seed and the Spurs bitchslapped them in the playoffs. It would be a 4-0 sweep nightmare for them. Another 1st round exit, I don't think T-Mac would recover.

[whottt]

How sweet would it be if the Rox held onto the #1-2 seed and the Spurs bitchslapped them in the playoffs. It would be a 4-0 sweep nightmare for them. Another 1st round exit, I don't think T-Mac would recover.

It's what I want...


It'll shut the Scola fans the fuck up too. In fact it's the only thing that will.

[bobbyjoe]

16 in a row does not = 22.

I pretty much think you wouldn't have won 22 games if Yao hadn't got injured. I think his injury allowed Adelman to game plan more according to his style, so basically you guys changed in mid-streak.

I look at your interior players...even with a healthy Landry...and I'm not worried at all.




You guys probably won't be eliminated in the first round...unless you're playing us. Hope to see ya soon, in just that scenario...there is an ugly wrong that needs to be righted.


So by all means...keep celebrating that winning streak and hoping for Spurs losses...it'll only lock in that first round matchup LOSS, for you :tu

A Spurs-Rockets matchup with Houston as a top seed and SA as a bottom seed might be the first in NBA history where the lower seed is actually favored. Ditto if LAL drops to a lower seed due to Gasol's injury.

Then again, that might not be such a bold statement given that the West teams 1-8 basically have the same record.

I havent watched a ton of Spurs games lately. But I know about the 1-5 in the last 6. What has been the problem in your opinion?

[Allanon]

The Rockets 22 win streak is very impressive no matter how you cut it. Watching them on Sunday, I'd say their defense and hot 3 point shooting is the key to it. They trotted out 4 3 point shooters at once and smacked the Lakers in the 4th quarter yesterday.

That's a live or die situation but it worked extremely well for them.

[DazedAndConfused]

where did i give excuses? you were giving excuses for teams losing to the rockets. so if you want to give excuses for teams losing to us then i have to remind you that we are not 100%. it's a catch 22....they can do no right. that's fine.

and even though we have been dominating rebounding and points in the paint we are vulnerable to a low post scorer. that was very evident when deke and anyone else on the rockets was trying to defend okafor. but the obvious counter point is that there simply are not many good low post scorers that are too big for us to defend. there is shaq if his fat ass can stay healthy. there is duncan. there are the lakers with odom, bynum, and gasol who are all too long for us to defend without yao.

yes, i know there is boozer as well but he falls in love with his jumper too much. also, i feel that our power forward trio of scola, landry, and hayes can cancel him out.

and at no point did i claim greatness. i just stated that this TEAM is more talented than you would like to believe.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. The Rockets are not as good as their streak would indicate, but they are certainly not as terrible as people are making them out to be.

Jumpshooting teams almost never do well in the post season, we're talking about a best of 7 game series.....the shots won't be falling every night and you need to get your scoring from elsewhere besides the 3pt line. The Rockets just don't have this without Yao.

[whottt]

I havent watched a ton of Spurs games lately. But I know about the 1-5 in the last 6. What has been the problem in your opinion?


When you are carrying around a lot of these:


http://bp1.blogger.com/_dEvE42H9ToY/RmcLdySN5TI/AAAAAAAAAGw/TEy2dneSmEI/s1600/nba_trophy.jpghttp://bp1.blogger.com/_dEvE42H9ToY/RmcLdySN5TI/AAAAAAAAAGw/TEy2dneSmEI/s1600/nba_trophy.jpghttp://bp1.blogger.com/_dEvE42H9ToY/RmcLdySN5TI/AAAAAAAAAGw/TEy2dneSmEI/s1600/nba_trophy.jpghttp://bp1.blogger.com/_dEvE42H9ToY/RmcLdySN5TI/AAAAAAAAAGw/TEy2dneSmEI/s1600/nba_trophy.jpg


They drain a lot of energy you would otherwise be using to win typical regular season games.


Not to mention they tend to motivate the opponents.


These games just aren't that big of a deal to the Spurs...even if they make a conscious effort, at the subconscious level they know these games just aren't that important.


Me? I've fallen a sleep in a couple of these games and I've only actually watched 2 entire games during the stretch.

And both the games I've seen the Spurs looked good to me...


I'm glad the Spurs aren't wasting their energy on games that ultimately will do nothing to aid their quest to repeat. Sure I'd like to see wins...


But I've seen the Spurs go into the playoffs as the hottest team in the league during a repeat year and get owned badly....I'd rather them have that energy then than now.

Only champions can take this frame of mind and it's not even an intentional thing...it's just that there's no substitute for :


http://bp1.blogger.com/_dEvE42H9ToY/RmcLdySN5TI/AAAAAAAAAGw/TEy2dneSmEI/s1600/nba_trophy.jpg

...because only they have had success that exceeds mere regular season big games.



This team knows what it takes to win championships...and there is no substitute for that experience, but it does have it's side effects.

[bobbyjoe]

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. The Rockets are not as good as their streak would indicate, but they are certainly not as terrible as people are making them out to be.

Jumpshooting teams almost never do well in the post season, we're talking about a best of 7 game series.....the shots won't be falling every night and you need to get your scoring from elsewhere besides the 3pt line. The Rockets just don't have this without Yao.

Agreed, with one important counterargument.

Jumpshooting teams throughout the course of NBA history have almost always been run and gun teams who didnt play a lick of D.

Think the 90's Warriors, the Suns of Nash, the Mavs of Dirk-Terry-Stack, the Warriors of Baron-SJax.

It's a rare combination to have a team that is strong defensively but offensively relies on outside shooting. Most great defensive teams have power post games like the Spurs do or the 3peat Lakers.

At the end of the day, Defense is the single most important component of basketball in terms of winning in today's NBA. You can get by easier on off-shooting nights as a perimeter team if D/rebounding are constants.

And even though I pick LAL to win the West, this is the one problem I see for LAL. The Defense has to be shored up a little bit. Bynum would be a tremendous part of this, but the more time goes by and the more the timeframe for a return gets prolonged, the more I question what exactly his role is for the 2008 postseason.

[DazedAndConfused]

Agreed, with one important counterargument.

Jumpshooting teams throughout the course of NBA history have almost always been run and gun teams who didnt play a lick of D.

Think the 90's Warriors, the Suns of Nash, the Mavs of Dirk-Terry-Stack, the Warriors of Baron-SJax.

It's a rare combination to have a team that is strong defensively but offensively relies on outside shooting. Most great defensive teams have power post games like the Spurs do or the 3peat Lakers.

At the end of the day, Defense is the single most important component of basketball in terms of winning in today's NBA. You can get by easier on off-shooting nights as a perimeter team if D/rebounding are constants.

And even though I pick LAL to win the West, this is the one problem I see for LAL. The Defense has to be shored up a little bit. Bynum would be a tremendous part of this, but the more time goes by and the more the timeframe for a return gets prolonged, the more I question what exactly his role is for the 2008 postseason.

Their interior defense is actually quite poor. I've never seen Odom post up that easily before in my life, it's a shame the Lakers didn't keep going to that strategy (but expected since Odom is so unassertive). They have yet to go up against an elite contender that wasn't missing their interior scorers (and yes Dirk would qualify for that over any other Maverick player).

[bobbyjoe]

The interior D is not poor when Dikembe Mutombo is in the game. he alters shots and blocks shots on penetration.

Where the D is definitely weak is individual post D against 6-10/7 foot bigs. As you said, Odom looked unusually dominant yesterday. However, as I said in a previous post, who will exploit this besides: LAL (Pau, Bynum, Odom), SAS (Duncan), and PHO (Shaq, Amare).

Dirk I think is just silly. The guy is soft and a perimeter player. He's never been a post up player in the paint. He's a post up at the elbow and shoot a fadeaway guy, which just doesnt exploit the current weaknesses without Yao.

Have you watched many Spurs Mavs games? There are games when Popovich will have all PnR's switched to deny open 3's to Dallas and Tony Parker ends up on Dirk. Dirk will not take it to the basket, however, against a guy a foot shorter than him. He will take acouple dribbles and shoot a 15-18 foot fadeaway.

Dirk cant be considered an interior scorer when he probablly gets over 70% of his points outside of the paint. I get your point about the key players being out but Dirk is not the guy who's going to pound inside.

And yes, it was stupid not to keep going to Odom inside. The way he was dominating, either he was going to score or get doubled and then kick out to an open shooter. Odom though, has been on a tear since the Gasol trade. It wasnt just yesterday.

[DazedAndConfused]

We all know Odom's problem. He's not a 2nd option, and he will never fill in that role for the Lakers. As a 3rd wheel I can't imagine a better fit for our team though, if only we can convince him to resign for less money he's a keeper all the way IMHO.

More than anything I just want to see what this Laker team can do with our roster fully healthy. It may not happen this season, but I hope they trot out that starting 5 at least once at some point. Thankfully the news today is that Gasol's ankle is much better, Ariza's boot was taken off, and Bynum experienced no setbacks from the treadmill work he did last week.

[Solid D]

I just know what I see and that is a very good defensive team, one who is certainly one of the top 4 or 5 teams in the NBA in that department. Statistically, it cannot be argued otherwise. The Celts are clearly the best defense without question. But sixty some-odd games into the season and the Rockets are 2nd to Boston in OPP FG%, 4th in Points Allowed, 4th in Assists Allowed. They are slightly better statistically than the Spurs defensively and we will probably see more evidence on the court when they play each other again.

[bobbyjoe]

I really thought Odom would be a Superstar coming out of college. He's got an incredible skill set and a very diverse skill set.

I think people get down on him a bit much. Maybe he's a bit of an underachiever, but he's a great talent and he's really stepped up his game of late.

The fact that he's stepped up after the Gasol trade tells me maybe he does feel some relief (from pressure as the #2) and is eager to use his skills to blend in around the improved talent as a very productive role player.

When you have an Odom playing with energy, hitting the boards around a Kobe and Gasol, that's going to be a load for any team, esp with a Bynum around as an interior defensive presence. Matchup hell for anyone. The key to making it work is that Odom is so versatile that he will be hard to exploit on the defensive end with a quicker SF.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I just know what I see and that is a very good defensive team, one who is certainly one of the top 4 or 5 teams in the NBA in that department. Statistically, it cannot be argued otherwise. The Celts are clearly the best defense without question. But sixty some-odd games into the season and the Rockets are 2nd to Boston in OPP FG%, 4th in Points Allowed, 4th in Assists Allowed. They are slightly better statistically than the Spurs defensively and we will probably see more evidence on the court when they play each other again.

The more I watch Houston play the more I'm impressed.

Defensive fg % defense is predicated on energy play, and that's what I see when I've watched the Rockets is a lot of guys playing with a ton of intensity on the floor, making quick rotations, fighting through screens and staying with their man. I haven't seen too many open looks for people against Houston.

It's pretty impressive considering that RA is not considered a defensive style coach.

I like the role players the Rockets have assembled. If matchups go their way I could see them making a nice playoff run.

[DazedAndConfused]

I really thought Odom would be a Superstar coming out of college. He's got an incredible skill set and a very diverse skill set.

I think people get down on him a bit much. Maybe he's a bit of an underachiever, but he's a great talent and he's really stepped up his game of late.

The fact that he's stepped up after the Gasol trade tells me maybe he does feel some relief (from pressure as the #2) and is eager to use his skills to blend in around the improved talent as a very productive role player.

When you have an Odom playing with energy, hitting the boards around a Kobe and Gasol, that's going to be a load for any team, esp with a Bynum around as an interior defensive presence. Matchup hell for anyone. The key to making it work is that Odom is so versatile that he will be hard to exploit on the defensive end with a quicker SF.

Bynum will be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the other teams. A good rebounding team can deal with Gasol and Odom down in the paint, but when you throw Bynum in the mix (who is one of the best rebounders in the league) it is going to be a nightmare for them to contain. I can't wait.

[whottt]

is predicated on energy play, .


With all due respect your spamship...

The Rockets defensive FG % is predicated on

A. A 7'5 behemoth(who is no longer in the lineup)

and

B. Injuries to the top interior scoring threats of virtually every good team team they have played in this streak.


If their streak is still going when they play the Spurs...it will end that night.

That is something that will get the Spurs excited.

[kingmalaki]

Please stop griping about the teams that we are playing. Against LA we trotted out a lineup of:

Mutombo (41 yr old center who is a complete liability on offense)
Scola (rookie who half you say is worse than Bonner)
Battier
T-Mac
Alston
Hayes (another liability on offense)
Harris (dude we picked up on a 10 day contract)
Head
B.Jackson

The majority of lineups look better than that one, including the Laker lineup that we just beat (Kobe is better than T-Mac, Odom better than Battier, continued down the roster). We are missing arguably the best center in basketball (at worse the #2 center), so please spare me the garbage about other teams being without their top players.

I don't see any Rockets fans expecting us to do much damage in the playoffs or get out of the first round at that with this undermanned team. We are just appreciating the streak. But since you want to look at the schedule (I/m going from when we got hot around January), when we were at full strength we beat:

Orlando, SA, GS, Cleveland twice and NO (blowout). We lost by 2 to Utah when Yao was sick, and at that time they were the hottest team in the league.

Since Yao has been out we have beaten the following teams that had just as much talent as our squad:

Denver (AI, Carmelo, Camby, K-Mart)..and we held them to 89 points...a team that just put up 160 the other night
Dallas (Kidd, Howard, Stackhouse, J.Terry, Dampier)
NO (Paul, Peja, Chandler)
New Jersey (Jefferson, Carter, Harris)
ATL (Joe Johnson, Bibby, Horford, J.Smith)
LA (Kobe, Odom, Fisher)

So again, please spare me this garbage about us beating undermanned teams. We are trotting out a dude that we just signed to a 10 day....

[Solid D]

With all due respect your spamship...

The Rockets defensive FG % is predicated on

A. A 7'5 behemoth(who is no longer in the lineup)

and

B. Injuries to the top interior scoring threats of virtually every good team team they have played in this streak.


If their streak is still going when they play the Spurs...it will end that night.

That is something that will get the Spurs excited.

Well, point A. isn't supported since the Rockets have held their opponents to 324-830 (.390) without Yao during the streak.

[whottt]

Well, point A. isn't supported since the Rockets have held their opponents to 324-830 (.390) without Yao during the streak.


Point A is supported by the last 5-6 seasons of Rockets Def FG% since Yao joined the team.


He's 7'5...he blocks shots. S'not hard to see how he has an impact.

[whottt]

Please stop griping about the teams that we are playing. Against LA we trotted out a lineup of:

Mutombo (41 yr old center who is a complete liability on offense)
Scola (rookie who half you say is worse than Bonner)
Hayes (another liability on offense)
Harris (dude we picked up on a 10 day contract)


We are missing arguably the best center in basketball (at worse the #2 center), so please spare me the garbage about other teams being without their top players.

I don't see any Rockets fans expecting us to do much damage in the playoffs or get out of the first round at that with this undermanned team. We are just appreciating the streak. But since you want to look at the schedule (I/m going from when we got hot around January), when we were at full strength we beat:



Exactly...you guys aren't that good. Could not agree more.


And I agree you deserve props for winning 22 in a row :tu

[Solid D]

Point A is supported by the last 5 seasons of Def FG% since Yao joined the team.


He's 7'5...he blocks shots. S'not hard to see how he has an impact.

The last 5 seasons is not relative to the argument regarding this season under Adelman. Remember your own premise and stick with it please.

[whottt]

The last 5 seasons is not relative to the argument regarding this season under Adelman. Remember your own premise and stick with it please.


My premise this season is that Yao is still 7'5 and a shotblocker, no matter who is coaching.


And as for this season, or more recently this stretch...saying Bynum, Gasol, Dirk, etc. being out isn't a factor in the Rockets ability to hold teams to 39%...is ludicrous.

For those guys get theirs even against good defensive teams.

[whottt]

Do the Rockets have a healthy guy over 6'10 other than Dikembe?



And you don't think it going to be a problem against LA, the Suns etc? It's going to be a huge problem for them.

[Solid D]

Your circular reasoning that only acts as a continuation of a thread does little against the facts of the matter. I am just here to remind you of it even though I'm doing it with one eye watching the Spurs game...which is enough in this case.

[whottt]

Your circular reasoning that only acts as a continuation of a thread does little against the facts of the matter. I just here to remind you of it even though I'm doing it with one eye while watching the Spurs game...which is enough in this case.


There's nothing circular about my premise at all...


Defense won't be as much of an emphasis from the team perspective under Adelman as it was under Van Gundy.

That doesn't mean Yao won't still be a defensive presence and a defense loving player won't still be loving defense.

But the demand for it from the coach isn't going to be there...it's really not that complicated.


It's exactly like what happened with the Pistons when Flip took over. Yao may still be a presence, Battier may still like playing D...but Adelman isn't going to be ripping them or benching them based on a defensive criteria like Van Gundy did....like Pop would...so the major impetus to focus on D is gone.


And...Gasol, Odom and Dirk being out does make it easier to beat their teams.

[Dreamshake]

They are commited to defense like Flip Saunders Pistons have been commited to Larry Brown's defense....it's there, but the same emphasis won't be.

This is where shit talking non knowledgeable idiots get exposed.


Please tell me the Rockets Defensive team rankings were last year, and please tell me what they are this year. I guess almost 70 games into this season it is truely "not the same"

Ill help you out. Right in the same place. This year they are first in the conference in opp fg% and second in the conference in opp ppg. Last year same places. Looks like you are an internet liar.

You know, if your just going to spout out any bullshit in the name of stupidity, then at least put a foreword to your ramble...here something like this.


Hi my name is whottt. I like to make up bullshit, post lies that are supposed to be fact and overall try to impress with my loud talk and rambling mess of lies in order to gain some kind of percieved notion of having some basketball knowledge. Furthermore, I understand that this makes me look as if I am a complete johnson to those who know better, but Im really just hoping the drones who don't know any better except me for a knowledgeable person. Thank you and have a good day.

[whottt]

This is where shit talking non knowledgeable idiots get exposed.


Please tell me the Rockets Defensive team rankings were last year, and please tell me what they are this year. I guess almost 70 games into this season it is truely "not the same"

Ill help you out. Right in the same place. This year they are first in the conference in opp fg% and second in the conference in opp ppg. Last year same places. Looks like you are an internet liar.

You know, if your just going to spout out any bullshit in the name of stupidity, then at least put a foreword to your ramble...here something like this.


Hi my name is whottt. I like to make up bullshit, post lies that are supposed to be fact and overall try to impress with my loud talk and rambling mess of lies in order to gain some kind of percieved notion of having some basketball knowledge. Furthermore, I understand that this makes me look as if I am a complete johnson to those who know better, but Im really just hoping the drones who don't know any better except me for a knowledgeable person. Thank you and have a good day.



Good lord...you are fucking stupid. Seriously...can you read at all?


Shut up..read, then post. Don't come in here making an ass of youself because you have no clue what anyone else is agruing about.


Shut up...read...then apologize.

[Solid D]

16 in a row does not = 22.

I pretty much think you wouldn't have won 22 games if Yao hadn't got injured.


The Kings actually had 1 or 2 really good defensive teams...but ultimately, they weren't a true defensive team. And neither are the Rockets....


The Rockets defensive FG % is predicated on

A. A 7'5 behemoth

[whottt]

What is so hard to understand?


Van Gundy forced them to play D Adelman doesn't...this doesn't mean they aren't a good defensive team, after all they had a coach drilling it into their heads for the past 5 seasons...they also have some good defensive personnel.


But Adelman isn't going to substitute or bench based on defensive play like Van Gundy would. It's not a case of play D or die...


So ultimately, they won't play D or die...like a true defensive team would.



I mean seriously...some of those guys would not even be in the rotation if Van Gundy was the coach.


And that's exactly what happened to the Pistons...they were still a good defensive team, in fact I think they were statistically better...but ultimately they weren't as committed to defense under Saunders as they were under Brown.

[Dreamshake]

Ok check. Did that and I found this


They are commited to defense like Flip Saunders Pistons have been commited to Larry Brown's defense....it's there, but the same emphasis won't be

Then I found this


Defense won't be as much of an emphasis from the team perspective under Adelman as it was under Van Gundy.

To which has been pointed out to your already that the Rockets sit in the exact same place in Defense as they did last year under Gundy. How is that "not the same emphasis"???? Sounds like fuzzy math to me man.

Then you say something stupid like this


The Rockets defensive FG % is predicated on

A. A 7'5 behemoth(who is no longer in the lineup)

To which someone embarrassed you with this


Well, point A. isn't supported since the Rockets have held their opponents to 324-830 (.390) without Yao during the streak.

Which you try to deflect away as being a product of not having some tool like Bynum in a lineup. Ok once again...they are at the same rank as last year, and are actually playing better team D this year then last.

Do you always make it this easy?

[Dreamshake]

What is so hard to understand?


Van Gundy forced them to play D Adelman doesn't...this doesn't mean they aren't a good defensive team, after all they had a coach drilling it into their heads for the past 5 seasons...they also have some good defensive personnel.

Adelman has had several great defensive teams. Go learn the history of this game chump.



But Adelman isn't going to substitute or bench based on defensive play like Van Gundy would. It's not a case of play D or die...

Oh you mean when during a free throw time out he substitued the 10 day contract Mike Harris in for regular rotation player Luther Head to add size and strength to defend against the substitution Phil had just made....idiot. You seriously just make shit up.



So ultimately, they won't play D or die...like a true defensive team would.


Once again, the Rox are a better team defensively this year then they were last year. Whats so hard for you to figure out that this isn't a 10 game stretch. Its damn near the entire season.




I mean seriously...some of those guys would not even be in the rotation if Van Gundy was the coach.

Which is basically why he lost his job. He couldn't relent on his doghouse or rotations to help the team win. And Van Gundy never had the Rockets in first place in the tough ass WC either.


This really is getting to be way too easy.

[whottt]

Idiot...you don't have any clue what this argument is about...you are just arguing.

You know how the dog pushes back whenever you push against him...that's what you are doing fool...without having a fucking clue what point I am making.



I just want to make sure you are on record:


1. You are saying Adelman is as much of a defense oriented coach as JVG.
2. You are saying Yao isn't a defensive presence(after stupidly proving my point that he was without even realizing it).

3. You don't think the Lakers starting PF and C being out, nor the MVP being out, are factors in your teams defense since Yao went down.



That is what you are saying if you are arguing against me...fucking idiot.


Don't jump into arguments when you don't what you or anyone else is talking about...idiot.


Just shut up.





Stop wasting my time.

[Nasir_Jones]

Idiot...you don't have any clue what this argument is about...you are just arguing.

You know how the dog pushes back whenever you push against him...that's what you are doing fool...without having a fucking clue what point I am making.



I just want to make sure you are on record:


1. You are saying Adelman is as much of a defense oriented coach as JVG.
2. You are saying Yao isn't a defensive presence(after stupidly proving my point that he was without even realizing it).

3. You don't think the Lakers starting PF and C being out, nor the MVP being out, are factors in your teams defense since Yao went down.



That is what you are saying if you are arguing against me...fucking idiot.


Don't jump into arguments when you don't what you or anyone else is talking about...idiot.


Just shut up.





Stop wasting my time.

Hahaha.... well..

I just read every post in this thread.. and reading this post was the last straw... I just had to register.

If it was someone on a Wizards forum spewin this nonsense (I know, there really aren't any good wizards forums.. one of the reasons I'm here), then I would be embarrassed for the image of my team's fans, and tell him to STFU.

But,, this is a Spurs forum... so I'll just go ahead and let one person ruin my opinion of the knowledge of Spurs fans

:clap

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I kinda give a fine shit about the rockets' winning streak

[DazedAndConfused]

After watching the Celts just rip the heart out of the Spurs I don't think any of this shit matters. The Celtics are winning the NBA championship this year.

[Nasir_Jones]

After watching the Celts just rip the heart out of the Spurs I don't think any of this shit matters. The Celtics are winning the NBA championship this year.

haha.. wow... talk about overreacting because of one game.

[whottt]

Hahaha.... well..

I just read every post in this thread.. and reading this post was the last straw... I just had to register.

Shit...how did we survive this long without you?





If it was someone on a Wizards forum spewin this nonsense (I know, there really aren't any good wizards forums.. one of the reasons I'm here), then I would be embarrassed for the image of my team's fans, and tell him to STFU.


And I'd say that makes you an idiot that tends to generalize...possibly with some codependence issues.



But,, this is a Spurs forum... so I'll just go ahead and let one person ruin my opinion of the knowledge of Spurs fans

:clap


Hey...by all means, live stupid :tu

[Solid D]

So whottt, in summary, the Rockets are a good defensive team but not a true defensive team, and the Rockets would not have won 22 straight with Yao, a 7'4" interior defender, but since they didn't have Yao for all the games, they won 22 straight, but shouldn't have, although you give them credit, but really no real credit because the opponents had missing players. Rick Adelman has had some good defensive teams, although not true defensive teams because they hack and swat, but good defensive teams and this one is not going to win because it doesn't have a good interior defense without Yao but this Adelman team is not suited for Yao or T-Mac(or Scola).

I think that makes this thread a very compelling one.

[Nasir_Jones]

Shit...how did we survive this long without you?






And I'd say that makes you an idiot that tends to generalize...possibly with some codependence issues.



Hey...by all means, live stupid :tu

Dear whottt

my response (http://youtube.com/watch?v=6PDKcX0Ji90)

[whottt]

So whottt, in summary, the Rockets are a good defensive team but not a true defensive team,


Yes, because the guy ultimately pulling the strings is not a true defensive coach. He's knows how to coach defense, he's a good coach, but he's definitely on the D'antoni side of the ball before he's on the Pop side of it. He's an offensive coach. And while this team remembers JVG's disciplining and emphasis, it's not being enforced to the same degree by the current head coach.







and the Rockets would not have won 22 straight with Yao, a 7'4" interior defender, but since they didn't have Yao for all the games, they won 22 straight.

Pretty much yeah...everyone thought they were going to drop off with Yao out and underestimated them, but really Adelman got the chance to make this team run in a way he's more used to.


Adelman's teams always do this, they always do it. They used to do it when Webber or Peja would go down. Hell they did it to us in the first round of the playoffs 2 years ago.




Rick Adelman has had some good defensive teams, although not true defensive teams because they hack and swat,

Yeah...like the 02 Kings in particular. He's really good at coaching that style, but no, it doesn't make them a true defensive team.





this one is not going to win because it doesn't have a good interior defense without Yao

I think it'll be the weakness of they team, they lost a 7'4 shotblocker.





but this Adelman team is not suited for Yao or T-Mac(or Scola).


Yao is not suited for this team...but Yao is better suited for the playoffs.



[quote]
I think that makes this thread a very compelling one.



And I think you think a team starting a 41 year old C, and physically limited PF, with no one else over the height of 6'10 healthy in their rotation, is a defensive powerhouse.


I think you're being ridiculous...equally so if you attempt to claim a team can replace JVG with Rick Adelman and not lose any focus on the defensive side of the ball.


The 06 Pistons only gave up a half a point more than the 05 Pistons...and they had a much better record, they weren't as good of a playoff team though, and neither will be the Rockets for similar reasons.

[Nasir_Jones]

The Rockets interior defense has arguable gotten better with Mutombo in the game, blocking as many shots as he has and affecting even more, just as Yao was.

And whom might I ask are you describing as physically limited?? Scola? Landry? Hayes? This is one of the top PF tandems in the league right now.

The Rockets have been a great defensive team for going on four years now. Their defense has been even better with Adelman this year. You're gonna go nowhere with the whole "they're not a true defensive team" argument. You talk as if teams can't focus on offense AND defense... because that is EXACTLY what the Rockets have been doing.

On a more nitpicky note... I also find it amusing how you refer to Yao as 7'4".. when the shortest he has ever been listed since entering the league is 7'5", and although I think he really is 7'5", most people refer to him as 7'6" because it just sounds better.

Your hatred for the Rockets is painfully obvious.

[Solid D]

Well, I do think the Rockets are a true defensive team or they wouldn't be keeping teams in the low 90s and holding teams to 42% from the field (2nd to the Celtics). They are doing it in a Western Division that is the most laden with talent in history, born-out by the fact 8 teams have >.600 winning pct..

The 22 games streak is impressive and should not be minimized. This team gets stops and plays the right way. Boston is better, and no team has all the matchup advantages but the Rockets are for real.

[Indazone]

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=30

PORTLAND
Here ya go Whott since you obviously haven't done any research prior to posting. As you can see, Adleman is no stranger to having highly ranked defensive teams. 1990-1993 as his best years as coach of the Portland Trailblazers.

Year Coach Off Def Wins
1987-88 Mike Schuler 4 9 53
1989-90 Rick Adelman 8 3 59
Avg. 1990-93 Rick Adelman 7 2 55
1993-94 Rick Adelman 8 12 47
1994-95 P.J. Carlesimo 6 7 44

Adelman's strong Portland teams won more with defense than with offense. His Sacramento teams featured terrific offenses, but were very good defensively as well. The Kings actually took more of a hit on defense than offense last year following Adelman's departure, which runs counter to conventional wisdom. Van Gundy's teams have been so consistently outstanding defensively, even when they have lacked elite individual talent on defense, that a drop-off at that end of the court is inevitable. Don't expect the Rockets to fall too far, however, especially since there are great defenders on the roster (most notably the perennially underrated Shane Battier, whom I picked First Team All-Defense a year ago).

Oh and by the way, love what they said about Scola :lol

How good is Scola?

Does "real good" cover it?

Considered for years as the best NBA prospect in Europe, Scola served further notice of his talent over the summer in the FIBA Americas Championship. All Scola did for an Argentinean squad playing without NBA vets Manu Ginobili and Andres Nocioni was average 19.5 points and 7.5 rebounds on 55.7% shooting, leading Argentina to a runner-up finish and winning MVP honors in the process. A preseason visit by the Rockets to KeyArena offered me a first-person look at Scola, and I came away as impressed as ever. Scola put up 10 points and nine boards in 23 minutes, and showed an innate feel for the game. I loved the way he ran a pick-and-roll with McGrady, slipping to the basket, taking the feed and finding Yao all alone for a dunk when the help defense came.

Sonics Head Coach P.J. Carlesimo, familiar with Scola from when the Spurs owned his rights, raved about the rookie-in-name-only after the game.

"You do see him, because he fills up the stat sheet," Carlesimo said, "but he makes so many plays you don't even see--he makes a little pass, he comes up with a loose ball, he tips a ball out--he's a basketball player. He does stuff that helps the other guys on the team. It's a great knack. He's going to help them unbelievably. It's scary how much better I think they can be--not that they were bad to begin with."

Scola is far and away the most complete power forward the Rockets have had next to Yao. Van Gundy felt comfortable with Howard, but his game had atrophied and his inability to finish in the paint meant opposing teams did not always pay for double-teaming Yao with a second post player. Scola can score inside and out and will protect Yao, to some extent, from that defense. The Rockets were +11.5 points per 100 possessions with Hayes on the floor last season, just +2.3 with Howard. Scola should produce a figure much closer to Hayes' mark this season, and that will be an enormous boost for Houston.

[whottt]

Well, I do think the Rockets are a true defensive team or they wouldn't be keeping teams in the low 90s and holding teams to 42% from the field (2nd to the Celtics). They are doing it in a Western Division that is the most laden with talent in history, born-out by the fact 8 teams have >.600 winning pct..

I don't think you can be a true defensive team without having a true defensive coach.





The 22 games streak is impressive and should not be minimized. This team gets stops and plays the right way. Boston is better, and no team has all the matchup advantages but the Rockets are for real.


You again fail to see that Yao is not there...and I think you'll find that their def FG% has been in roughly the same ball park since the day they drafted him.

I know you will point out their success since he went out...and I will point out that they haven't faced a dominant inside team that was healthy since that happened...in fact they faced some exceptionally weakened inside teams in some cases missing as many as 2 starters.


You can't win 22 in a row without bringing it every night...but I don't think they have the interior defensive personnel to win a championship without Yao(And yes I still think he's a bad fit for Adelman's style).

[whottt]

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=30

PORTLAND
Here ya go Whott since you obviously haven't done any research prior to posting. As you can see, Adleman is no stranger to having highly ranked defensive teams. 1990-1993 as his best years as coach of the Portland Trailblazers.

Year Coach Off Def Wins
1987-88 Mike Schuler 4 9 53
1989-90 Rick Adelman 8 3 59
Avg. 1990-93 Rick Adelman 7 2 55
1993-94 Rick Adelman 8 12 47
1994-95 P.J. Carlesimo 6 7 44

Adelman's strong Portland teams won more with defense than with offense.

Yeah those were some good defensive teams, but they were also extremely talented teams period...and they weren't true defensive teams IMO.



His Sacramento teams featured terrific offenses, but were very good defensively as well.

False...they were really only good for one season...and they still weren't truly a defensive team.




The Kings actually took more of a hit on defense than offense last year following Adelman's departure, which runs counter to conventional wisdom.

Doesn't surprise me...





Van Gundy's teams have been so consistently outstanding defensively, even when they have lacked elite individual talent on defense, that a drop-off at that end of the court is inevitable.

Exactly my point...plus you no longer have Yao...the primary(on court) reason the Rockets defense has been where it's at for the last few years.


He's 7'5...he blocks shots. It matters.




Don't expect the Rockets to fall too far, however, especially since there are great defenders on the roster (most notably the perennially underrated Shane Battier, whom I picked First Team All-Defense a year ago).


You're starting a 41 year old Center dude and a rookie PF, being backed up by a rookie, and those are the good players in that rotation....you think about that for a second.

[whottt]

My bad...Scola's not a rookie...he's got an extensive history of choking in Euroleague finals :tu

Forgot about that.

[Roxsfan]

not as impressed when you look at their luck. they have played every contender when they were missing a key player, and tomorrow they get Boston on night after we play them..... Which we have to play Boston on St Patricks Day, for God's sake.

Yeah, I'm glad we have Yao down low to take advantage of all the opponent's hurt players being out :rolleyes

[whottt]

*poof*

[whottt]

*crickets chirping*


:lmao


Damn that feels good.

[whottt]

Rocketfan = Buffalo on the Range

[Indazone]

haha Whott, you deserve your day in the sun. The streak had to end sometime and if it's to the best team in the NBA then so be it. It was still fun to watch and anyway you cut it, 22 games in a row is still really impressive. Made them fun to watch.

[[email protected]]

haha Whott, you deserve your day in the sun. The streak had to end sometime and if it's to the best team in the NBA then so be it. It was still fun to watch and anyway you cut it, 22 games in a row is still really impressive. Made them fun to watch.
That was a good run by the rockets :clap :clap.
All the nba team should give the rockets a standing o.... :clap :clap :toast :toast

[whottt]

haha Whott, you deserve your day in the sun. The streak had to end sometime and if it's to the best team in the NBA then so be it. It was still fun to watch and anyway you cut it, 22 games in a row is still really impressive. Made them fun to watch.


Man...I sat and here and told you guys that you hadn't gone up against a strong interior team since Yao went out...and I got told I didn't know what the fuck I am talking about...damn right I'm here to say I told you so.


I told you so.

[ducks]

rockets got their asses handed to them
now what will their confidence be like
or do they think they accomplished what they needed to with that long streak and choke the rest of the way?

[Solid D]

Boston is better than the Rockets. Nothing new has changed there from my perspective, since last night's game.

[1Parker1]

Boston is the better than any team in the league right now. I can't see anyone being able to beat them 4 games out of 7. You can call their so called playoff inexperience, but that's a little overinflated. And you can say their bench isn't that great, but they added Cassell and that's a bench in and of itself. They have several go to clutch type players and so KG's constant aversion in big moments won't be such a factor. They can play any style of basketball. Rondo is a very underrated point guard. Pierce, Allen, House, Cassell, and KG they're always going to have scoring.

No doubt, unless the Spurs seriously put it all together, Boston is the team to beat.

[whottt]

Boston is better than the Rockets. Nothing new has changed there from my perspective, since last night's game.



Hmm...


I could easily see the Rockets dropping 4 out of their next 7....to Boston, New Orleans, Phoenix and SA.


The only one of those teams they have beaten in this streak is New Orleans...and they've beaten them twice, but once they were missing David West.



Mine hasn't either...

[whottt]

Do the Rockets have a healthy guy over 6'10 other than Dikembe?



And you don't think it going to be a problem against LA, the Suns etc? It's going to be a huge problem for them.




I could easily see the Rockets dropping 4 out of their next 7....to Boston, New Orleans, Phoenix and SA.


Damn...I was pretty Solid in this thread.



Can we can get some thoughts about that mighty Rockets defensive frontline holding players to 39% FG?

[whottt]

bump...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Dikembe blocked the absolute shit out of Fat Shaq Deisel, whottt i thought you were saying houston sucked?