McCain: Iran trains Al-Qaeda terrorists

[PixelPusher]

I'll be charitable and assume McCain simply mis-labeled them...and that he actually does know the difference between Shia and Sunni, al-Qaeda and Iran.

Perhaps it's the Bush Administration's penchant for labeling all insurgents in Iraq "Al-Qaeda" that crept into his speech patterns.


A McCain gaffe in Jordan (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/03/18/a_mccain_gaffe_in_jordan.html)
By Cameron W. Barr and Michael D. Shear
AMMAN, Jordan -- Sen. John McCain, traveling in the Middle East to promote his foreign policy expertise, misidentified in remarks Tuesday which broad category of Iraqi extremists are allegedly receiving support from Iran.

He said several times that Iran, a predominately Shiite country, was supplying the mostly Sunni militant group, al-Qaeda. In fact, officials have said they believe Iran is helping Shiite extremists in Iraq.

Speaking to reporters in Amman, the Jordanian capital, McCain said he and two Senate colleagues traveling with him continue to be concerned about Iranian operatives "taking al-Qaeda into Iran, training them and sending them back."

Pressed to elaborate, McCain said it was "common knowledge and has been reported in the media that al-Qaeda is going back into Iran and receiving training and are coming back into Iraq from Iran, that's well known. And it's unfortunate." A few moments later, Sen. Joseph Lieberman, standing just behind McCain, stepped forward and whispered in the presidential candidate's ear. McCain then said: "I'm sorry, the Iranians are training extremists, not al-Qaeda."
The mistake threatened to undermine McCain's argument that his decades of foreign policy experience make him the natural choice to lead a country at war with terrorists. In recent days, McCain has repeatedly said his intimate knowledge of foreign policy make him the best equipped to answer a phone ringing in the White House late at night.

McCain was in Jordan leading a week-long Congressional delegation and has stressed that the trip was not political, despite the decision to hold a fundraiser in London later this week.

But advisers said a side-benefit from the trip would be the image of McCain standing next to world leaders and showing his expertise on issues of war and terrorism.

The U.S. has long asserted that elements of the Iranian security forces have been training and supplying weapons to Iraq's Shiite militias. Iran is an overwhelmingly Shiite country whose government has applauded the emergence of a Shiite-led government in Iraq but has denied supporting Shiite militias inside Iraq.

Al-Qaeda in Iraq is a predominantly Sunni militant group which is blamed for deadly mass killings of Shiites, along with attacks on U.S. forces. Some extremist Sunni consider Shiites to be heretics and therefore legitimate targets of attack.

The schism between Islam's Sunni and Shiite sects grew out of a dispute over the leadership of the faithful following the death of the Prophet Muhammad in 632 AD.

Shear reported from Jerusalem

[101A]

If we had an electorate that had a clue, this could be a big deal.

[boutons_]

McCain is stupid and confused, even borderline senile, and can't think on his feet.

Where will his deteriorating brain be in 5 years after the pressure cooker of the WH?

Then there is the issue of his anger and hot-headendess. The fucker's got a short fuse.

And don't even mention his "vision thang", of which he has as much as either Poppy or dubya.

[PixelPusher]

If we had an electorate that had a clue, this could be a big deal.
And if Obama or Clinton had made this gaffe, the right wing media would never let us hear the end of it.

[JoeChalupa]

And if Obama or Clinton had made this gaffe, the right wing media would never let us hear the end of it.

Oh hell yeah.

[ChuckD]

al qaeda infinitum...these folks obviously never heard the one about the boy that cried wolf.

[Ignignokt]

what's the point in knowing the difference between terrorist if we're going to surrender to them.

[Ignignokt]

And if Obama or Clinton had made this gaffe, the right wing media would never let us hear the end of it.


Well in this case, the so called objective nonbiased Washington Post media is never letting us hear about it.

[Yonivore]

9/11 Commission Finds Ties Between al-Qaeda and Iran (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,664967,00.html)

[Yonivore]

Intercepts Show Senior Al Qaeda in Iran Played Role in Saudi Bombings (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,87778,00.html)

[Yonivore]

The enemy of my enemy and all that...

Sometimes, I don't think you people understand that it's Islamofascism against us before it's Shi'ite against Sunni.

[PixelPusher]

The enemy of my enemy and all that...

Sometimes, I don't think you people understand that it's Islamofascism against us before it's Shi'ite against Sunni.
Those were pre-Iraq war collusions, it's 2008 and Iran's place in the ME has changed. They're more interested in turning Iraq into a Shi'ite ally nation, hence they're training and arming Shi'ite militia, not al-Qaeda.

Try to keep up.

[Yonivore]

Those were pre-Iraq war collusions, it's 2008 and Iran's place in the ME has changed. They're more interested in turning Iraq into a Shi'ite ally nation, hence they're training and arming Shi'ite militia, not al-Qaeda.

Try to keep up.
Well, at least you admit that, at one time, Iran cooperated with al Qaeda. That's more than some on this board.

As far as is known, by us anyway, Iran hasn't recently been training al Qaeda terrorists, but if that's true, it is only because they haven't needed it, not because of some supposed inability of Sunni and Shia terrorists to cooperate in attacking the United States and its interests. The media who solemnly assure us Shia/Sunni collaboration is impossible, notwithstanding that it is a documented fact, are the direct descendants of those who thought that fascists and communists were irreconcilable foes, only to be stunned by the Nazi-Soviet Pact. In fact, one group of thugs is very much like another, and thugs have never hesitated to find allies where they can, when it suits their interests.

[PixelPusher]

Well, at least you admit that, at one time, Iran cooperated with al Qaeda. That's more than some on this board.

Now if only I could get you to admit that al-Qaeda isn't the sum of all the problems in Iraq...

...aw, who am I kidding?

[PixelPusher]

As far as is known, by us anyway, Iran hasn't recently been training al Qaeda terrorists, but if that's true, it is only because they haven't needed it, not because of some supposed inability of Sunni and Shia terrorists to cooperate in attacking the United States and its interests. The media who solemnly assure us Shia/Sunni collaboration is impossible, notwithstanding that it is a documented fact, are the direct descendants of those who thought that fascists and communists were irreconcilable foes, only to be stunned by the Nazi-Soviet Pact. In fact, one group of thugs is very much like another, and thugs have never hesitated to find allies where they can, when it suits their interests.
Sounds about right, I'd only add that Iran's previous co-operation with al-Qaeda was more about momentary convenience than some "thug-sympatico" shared among terrorists. They certainly don't need al-Qaeda right now.

[Yonivore]

Now if only I could get you to admit that al-Qaeda isn't the sum of all the problems in Iraq...

...aw, who am I kidding?
Muqtada al Sadr isn't al Qaeda. But, alas, he is an Iranian proxy.

[Yonivore]

Sounds about right, I'd only add that Iran's previous co-operation with al-Qaeda was more about momentary convenience than some "thug-sympatico" shared among terrorists.
If they've done it once, they're certainly capable of doing it again.


They certainly don't need al-Qaeda right now.
How do you know that? And, maybe their cooperation isn't based on need but expediency.

[clambake]

Muqtada al Sadr isn't al Qaeda. But, alas, he is an Iranian proxy.
then why is your govt. paying him?

[PixelPusher]

Muqtada al Sadr isn't al Qaeda. But, alas, he is an Iranian proxy.
Soon to be joined by the rest of the Shia dominated Iraqi Central Government.
http://media.farsnews.com/Media/8506/ImageReports/8506210412/14_8506210412_L600.jpg

[clambake]

red carpet no less

[boutons_]

"it's Islamofascism against us before it's Shi'ite against Sunni."

It's from yoni, it's total bullshit from Repug/neo-cunts talking points.

The Iraqi Sunnis want to regain Saddam-like control over the oil and over the Shiites they had before dubya invaded and destablized and destroyed Iraq.

The Saudis and other Sunni countries have said they will intervene in Iraq if the Sunnis get screwed.

The Shiites are trying to exploit the opportunity to control oil that presented by dubya's removals of Sunnis from power.

The Iraqi Shiites may accept help from Shiite Iran until the Shiities get Iraq under their cotntrl, but they don't want Iran to run Iraq.

A transnational Islamofascist caliphate is a bullshit boogey man created by the neo-cunts to justify their pre-emptive imperialistic militarimsm. A unified caliphate is in direct conflict with the strong nationalism of the supposed particpating countries. The Muslims fight among themselves more than they fight against non-Muslim forces.

Like WMD, the Saddam-AQ link has total bullshit, as the recent US Army report confirmed.

If AQ was such a threat, dubya dropped the ball by starving his Afghan effort to feed the Iraq war. AQ and Taleban are still thriving in Afghanstan and FATAs.

No WMD, no AQ link, Iraq is all about the oil.

[PixelPusher]

Muqtada al Sadr...
coming soon: Ayatollah (http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2373952) Muqtada al Sadr. It'll be the Nightline 80's all over again.

[Yonivore]

then why is your govt. paying him?
You got me. I wasn't at that meeting.

[Mavtek]

If McCain is running on his supreme intelligence regarding the Middle East then I have to say he won't be getting my vote. Fuck the Middle East, we got our own fucking problems here.

[clambake]

You got me. I wasn't at that meeting.
you've been absent, intellectually. Al-sadr will never take the back row. we're paying all factions to make nice. at some point we obviously requested that he stop giving US troops orders. did you forget that?

we are a 3 trillion dollar cork in the bottle.

[inconvertible]

If we had an electorate that had a clue, this could be a big deal.


lol. the sheeple are dumb.

[Yonivore]

you've been absent, intellectually. Al-sadr will never take the back row. we're paying all factions to make nice. at some point we obviously requested that he stop giving US troops orders. did you forget that?

we are a 3 trillion dollar cork in the bottle.
I learned a long time ago that when a person uses the words "never" and "always" what they believe is a statement of fact, they're an idiot and not to be given any credence.

[clambake]

I learned a long time ago that when a person uses the words "never" and "always" what they believe is a statement of fact, they're an idiot and not to be given any credence.
fair enough.

oh, happy 5th anniverary of our country's unmatched, arrogant stupidity :elephant

you look good as a pink cheerleader.

[xrayzebra]

Could it be that maybe McCain knows something he isn't
suppose to be talking about? Hmmmmmmmmmmm

[clambake]

could it be he doesn't know what he's talking about?

[ChumpDumper]

Could it be that maybe McCain knows something he isn't
suppose to be talking about? HmmmmmmmmmmmSo you're calling him a senile blabbermouth? Hmmmmmmmmmmm

[xrayzebra]

So you're calling him a senile blabbermouth? Hmmmmmmmmmmm

No but you fit the bill pretty well....
:lol

[smeagol]

Could it be that maybe McCain knows something he isn't
suppose to be talking about? Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Enlighten us with your theory of what McCain knows or does not know . . .

[PixelPusher]

Could it be that maybe McCain knows something he isn't
suppose to be talking about? Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Ok, out with it Ray. If the U.S. found out that Iran was resuming it's al-Qaeda patronage, why would they keep it a secret?

[boutons_]

Petraeus is doing money-for-peace bribery because the extreme violence of the surge failed and was pissing off and radicalizing Iraqis, while costing too many American lives. He's now paying 80K Sunnis bribes of $300/month to stay cool, and arming them.

Anybody believe that Shiite Iran is really helping Sunni AQ, against the interests of Iraqi Shiites?

[ChumpDumper]

Bribery is an effective counterinsurgency tactic. The only real issue in Iraq is the political process -- Petraeus isn't bullish about the progress on that front.

[fyatuk]

Those were pre-Iraq war collusions, it's 2008 and Iran's place in the ME has changed. They're more interested in turning Iraq into a Shi'ite ally nation, hence they're training and arming Shi'ite militia, not al-Qaeda.

Try to keep up.

Quite true. At the moment Iran is most interested in turning itself into a regional power of a wide Shiite belt than anything else.

Iran would have no problems training al-Qaeda, but not at the expense of Shi'ite's losing power.

McCain just stupidly said the wrong thing. Everybody does now and then, but that really is disturbingly bad. Wouldn't have bothered me too much if he said Sunni instead of Shi'ite, but the fact he was using al-Qaeda is a bit stupifying given the current situation in the ME.

[xrayzebra]

Enlighten us with your theory of what McCain knows or does not know . . .
[QUOTE=PixelPusher]
Ok, out with it Ray. If the U.S. found out that Iran was resuming it's al-Qaeda patronage, why would they keep it a secret?[/UNQUOTE]

I have no theory. Simply interjecting a random thought.
Many folks make slips, especially after many briefings, which
I am sure he had on his trip. I certainly don't know one
way or the other. But I ask: is it possible? You tell me.

As for as Iran openly revealing their support. I don't
think it is such a secret that they support most terrorist groups. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It is well
known that they do support terrorist with money and arms.

[ChumpDumper]

As for as Iran openly revealing their support. I don't
think it is such a secret that they support most terrorist groups. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It is well
known that they do support terrorist with money and arms.But Iran's friend is the current Iraqi government.

Here's what it looks like when the president of Iran visits Iraq:
http://media.farsnews.com/Media/8506/ImageReports/8506210412/14_8506210412_L600.jpg

Here's what it looks like when a nominee for president of the United States visits Iraq:

http://www.democracycellproject.net/blog/archives/mccain_baghdad_market.jpg

[xrayzebra]

But Iran's friend is the current Iraqi government.

Here's what it looks like when the president of Iran visits Iraq:
http://media.farsnews.com/Media/8506/ImageReports/8506210412/14_8506210412_L600.jpg

Here's what it looks like when a nominee for president of the United States visits Iraq:

http://bp0.blogger.com/_QcKrEpPRAow/Rl4PSv96pJI/AAAAAAAAAWQ/bB3DAM5Lqcc/s1600-h/AMERICAblogTV-LiebermanSeesProgressInIraq750.mp4.jpg


Sure they are! You bet! But how much would you bet?

[ChumpDumper]

Sure they are! You bet! But how much would you bet?How much would I bet Iran would side with the Shiite dominated Iraqi government over Sunni insurgents?

Quite a bit actually.

[xrayzebra]

How much would I bet Iran would side with the Shiite dominated Iraqi government over Sunni insurgents?

Quite a bit actually.

Why? Iran is Persian.

[ChumpDumper]

Why? Iran is Persian.Both groups at odds with each other in Iraq are Arab, so that argument makes little sense.

[xrayzebra]

Both groups at odds with each other in Iraq are Arab, so that argument makes little sense.


I thought we were discussing Iran.

[ChumpDumper]

See how confusing it gets?

[xrayzebra]

^^Not for me.

[Nbadan]

Bribery is an effective counterinsurgency tactic. The only real issue in Iraq is the political process -- Petraeus isn't bullish about the progress on that front.


It's only a effective strategary for as long as the money last, but then what? You got a bunch of loonies running around with cash, weapons, and training....

...that's what led to the creation of 'Al-Queda' type groups in the first place, hmmm...I wonder what type of groups the occupation of Iraq will foster in the future?

[fyatuk]

It's only a effective strategary for as long as the money last, but then what? You got a bunch of loonies running around with cash, weapons, and training....

...that's what led to the creation of 'Al-Queda' type groups in the first place, hmmm...I wonder what type of groups the occupation of Iraq will foster in the future?

The same type as al-Qaeda if we leave too early, or stay too long. Part of the al-Qaeda hatred is we didn't help enough back in the day.

It was stupid to go into Iraq when we did, but we cannot leave until the area is better than it was when we invaded, or else we will create a whole new batch of extremists, more than we are by staying.

[Nbadan]

The same type as al-Qaeda if we leave too early, or stay too long. Part of the al-Qaeda [QUOTE]hatred is we didn't help enough back in the day.

That would be true if we were back in 03, but a lot has happened in 5 years that has hurt the credibility of the U.S. in Iraq and in the region, i don't think any of the leaders in Iraq really trust American politicians anymore...and won't for some time...so we can try and stay and calm the region, waste billions, maybe another trillion dollars and thousand more Iraq and American lives and actually have it work against us in the long run.....it other words, it's a cluster-fuck....


....better to withdrawal our troops, recope, retrain, rearm and refund than throw good money down a worthless hole....

[ChumpDumper]

^^Not for me.You admitted you didn't know what was being talked about.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Yoni, Al-Sadr is a vehement Iraqi nationalist, and I think calling him an "Iranian proxy" is simply not true.

[fyatuk]

Yoni, Al-Sadr is a vehement Iraqi nationalist, and I think calling him an "Iranian proxy" is simply not true.

It's a valid argument. al-Sadr recently spent a significant amount of time in Iran, according to about half the news sources (with the other half focusing on Iran denying al-Sadr was there). He wants to be a ligitimate Shi'ite leader, and is a rival to al-Sistani, who has had strong backing from Iran, so it'd be natural for al-Sadr to seek to draw Iranian support from Iran as well.

His army is the exact type of people Iran has been supporting as well (according to intelligence reports), so it's also not out of reach that they'd try to work with him as well.

As far as I know, there's no proof, but it certainly is beyond the realm of "simply not true."

[ChumpDumper]

Sadr is quite powerful without the aid of Iran. "Proxy" is a simplistic and rather stupid characterization.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Sadr would be insulted if he knew people seriously considered him an Iranian "proxy". The notion is ludicrous, you do realize the man was alive during the eighties, right?

[fyatuk]

Sadr would be insulted if he knew people seriously considered him an Iranian "proxy". The notion is ludicrous, you do realize the man was alive during the eighties, right?

Certainly he'd be offended at being called a "proxy" for anyone. However, there is hard evidence that he has visited Iran many times to meet with hardline Shi'ite leaders, and there is hard evidence that he has received endorsement and assistance from those hardliners.

[clambake]

I learned a long time ago that when a person uses the words "never" and "always" what they believe is a statement of fact, they're an idiot and not to be given any credence.
geez, look at the time! I've been waiting for you to plagiarize the meaning of "never" when referring to Al-Sadr.

Nothing out there?

Here, this ones on me.

Al-Sadr will make a move within months. Don't say I "never" gave you anything.