A More Perfect Union

[MannyIsGod]

pWe7wTVbLUU


Brilliant.

[peewee's lovechild]

Wow.

I'm impressed.

He should run the world, it would be a much better place.

He's better than Jesus Christ.

[DarrinS]

pWe7wTVbLUU


Brilliant.


Sarcasm? Or, you really think it was brilliant?

[MannyIsGod]

Sarcasm? Or, you really think it was brilliant?Its by far the best speech any American politician has ever given on race relations. Has there ever been another American politician who's been as honest as he was there?

[E20]

Too bad he didn't write it. Good speech though.

[MannyIsGod]

Wow.

I'm impressed.

He should run the world, it would be a much better place.

He's better than Jesus Christ.He uses words that are too many syllables for your comprehension. Don't worry, I understand. I'm sure you watched all 40 minutes in that time frame though. Props.

This is where you can tell me how Hillary's trips to Bosnia with Sinbad make her more qualfied even if Barak gives great speeches. Go ahead.

[PixelPusher]

This is where you can tell me how Hillary's trips to Bosnia with Sinbad make her more qualfied even if Barak gives great speeches. Go ahead.
Typical misinformation from an Obama cultist; Hillary flew with Sinbad and Sheryl Crow.

[Kermit]

Too bad he didn't write it. Good speech though.


Obama wrote most of the speech himself, according to his campaign.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/18/obama.speech/index.html

[E20]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/18/obama.speech/index.html
That's according to his campagin and it even says most of the speech. I doubt any major politician has wrote his or her speeches for the past 50 years. Do they have the time to think of all those rhetorical devices and the words for a speech like that, run a campagin trail, make public appearances etc... Who knows? My history teacher told me that he thinks the last speech that a candiate actually wrote was JFK's inaguaration speech.

It's a good speech. I'm rooting for him.

[MannyIsGod]

That's according to his campagin and it even says most of the speech. I doubt any major politician has wrote his or her speeches for the past 50 years. Do they have the time to think of all those rhetorical devices and the words for a speech like that, run a campagin trail, make public appearances etc... Who knows? My history teacher told me that he thinks the last speech that a candiate actually wrote was JFK's inaguaration speech.

It's a good speech. I'm rooting for him.He writes large portions of ALL his speeches. This is well documented.

[E20]

He writes large portions of ALL his speeches. This is well documented.
Okay, not trying to rag on teh guy, but I didn't know that.

[MannyIsGod]

No worries dude. I understand the skepticism in regards to politicians who do speech writing. We have a president who can't even deliver the speeches others write for him so its shocking when people find politicians who write their own words. They are not the norm, but they are out there.

[boutons_]

That man has the balls to step up and play the game where his peronal stake couldn't be higher.

dubya by contrast is a chickenshit weasel misunderstanding the speeches handed to him.

and Hillary gets bitch-slapped as a passive by-stander. I wonder what slime and spin her reaction willl bring. You're finished and outclassed and outsmarted and outvoted, Hillary, GTFO.

I wonder how much play this will get from MSM beyond this evening?

[DarrinS]

dubya by contrast is a chickenshit weasel misunderstanding the speeches handed to him.


At least he doesn't misunderestimate the terrrrrrissss.

[MannyIsGod]

Do you realize how much I've wanted a candidate who would speak the truth to the people? Who would admit things that aren't politically feasible to admit and to tell the people the truth about how complex some problems we face are. This is not a man who will say "you are either with us or against us" but who will listen and understand that sometimes right/wrong is blurred and isn't the same base don perspective.

This speech is why words are important.

[Ignignokt]

Most overrated speaker of all time.

[DarrinS]

Do you realize how much I've wanted a candidate who would speak the truth to the people? Who would admit things that aren't politically feasible to admit and to tell the people the truth about how complex some problems we face are. This is not a man who will say "you are either with us or against us" but who will listen and understand that sometimes right/wrong is blurred and isn't the same base don perspective.

This speech is why words are important.


He's a very charismatic speaker and it has worked on you. He is very likeable, polished politician.

Hillary, on the other hand? Not so likeable.


Whoever wins the election (democrat or republican) is going to inherit a LOT of crap to deal with.

[Ignignokt]

Churchill, now that was a speaker.

Tony Blair, A contemporary great.

Reagan, and so on.

I've heard preachers give better speeches than him.

not impressed.

[clambake]

obama talks about issues that nobody else has the balls to address. i like this guy.

[Ignignokt]

obama talks about issues that nobody else has the balls to address. i like this guy.

if he was white, yeah i'd give it to you. but Bill Cosby is more outspoken than obama.

[MannyIsGod]

Its not even about charisma though. Look at some of the things he says.


A lack of economic opportunity among black men, and the shame and frustration that came from not being able to provide for one's family, contributed to the erosion of black families - a problem that welfare policies for many years may have worsened.

A democrat candidate for president admitting the welfare state is a good part of the problem?


That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician's own failings.

Talking about how politicians use rhetoric to rile up votes. So fucking true.


In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience - as far as they're concerned, no one's handed them anything, they've built it from scratch. They've worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they're told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

You're telling me thats a politicaly smart thing for a black candidate for president to say?

This speech goes so far beyond charisma. He didn't give it in front of a roaring crowd. This speech is so full of substance and truth its flat out amazing.

[MannyIsGod]

if he was white, yeah i'd give it to you. but Bill Cosby is more outspoken than obama.Wake me up when Cosby is a candidate for president.

[MannyIsGod]

I submit that if you do not realize how ballsy that speech was then you simply don't understand American politics.

[clambake]

I submit that if you do not realize how ballsy that speech was then you simply don't understand American politics.
this guy transcends bravery and truth. in reality, these two other candidates don't belong in the same race.

[DarrinS]

I submit that if you do not realize how ballsy that speech was then you simply don't understand American politics.


It's called damage control.

And, if I had to give him a grade on it, I'd give him a B.

[Ignignokt]

I submit that if you do not realize how ballsy that speech was then you simply don't understand American politics.


Obama has a blanck check to speak out about race. Yet, obama will not do anything about his talking points. it's all fools gold. All he did was point out the frustrations of both racial groups, but he is never going to be questioned on how to solve it.

Hey, wanna know something. The welfare system screws everyone. It's colorblind.

Outsourcing screws everyone. Outsourcing is colorblind. Maybe, if we were all colorblind, we'd fix the problems better.

Because all he did was point out the frustrations of both groups without making any bold statements on how to fix them.

You want to know what his bold statement is for fixing race relations.

It's this.

Elect me, I'm white enough for liberals, and black enough to appease the "community" and make america feel less guilty. Change... yeah that's it.


Obama is just artificial frosting.

Until he proposes a platform which actually deviates from hillary clinton. Then yeah, i'll believe his change.

[MannyIsGod]

It's called damage control.

And, if I had to give him a grade on it, I'd give him a B.Damage control would have been to let the comments fade not to keep them in more news cycles with this speech.

[Ignignokt]

this guy transcends bravery and truth. in reality, these two other candidates don't belong in the same race.


That's right. Being tortured and not giving in to the Vietcong pales in comparison to giving a superficial speech.

[Ignignokt]

Damage control would have been to let the comments fade not to keep them in more news cycles with this speech.

Thank GodisnotManny, you don't work for his campaign.

[clambake]

That's right. Being tortured and not giving in to the Vietcong pales in comparison to giving a superficial speech.
that songbird nickname must burn, deep down. but, i know who you support.

[Ignignokt]

that songbird nickname must burn, deep down. but, i know who you support.

you're an idiot.

[clambake]

you're an idiot.
i just think it's puzzling to hear people constantly reminiscing about his stay at the hilton and don't ask why his comrades gave him the nickname. the moment he walked off that plane he was gold.

[MannyIsGod]

Thank GodisnotManny, you don't work for his campaign.You should have left it without the edit.



If you think this speech was textbook political "damage control" then you are incredibly wrong. I don't know what more to say, but its pretty damn clear that this wasn't your run of the mill political speech. Its a 40 minute mesage on the racial situation in America that frames the origin of Wright's (and many others) comments and the outrage they brought out. It isn't a 1 sentence declaration of how horrible Wrights comments were. It was much much more.

[Ignignokt]

i just think it's puzzling to hear people constantly reminiscing about his stay at the hilton and don't ask why his comrades gave him the nickname. the moment he walked off that plane he was gold.

I don't like mccain. I voted thompson then romney.

But that's not the point. Since when did Clitbake conveniently start believing millitary people, it sure wasn't around the Swift boat Veteran 2004 barnstorm.

[Ignignokt]

You should have left it without the edit.



If you think this speech was textbook political "damage control" then you are incredibly wrong. I don't know what more to say, but its pretty damn clear that this wasn't your run of the mill political speech. Its a 40 minute mesage on the racial situation in America that frames the origin of Wright's (and many others) comments and the outrage they brought out. It isn't a 1 sentence declaration of how horrible Wrights comments were. It was much much more.


You mean to tell me that someone who throws a pastor under the bus in order to seek the highest office in the land has balls.

all he did was, "hey i'm not some well to do Uppity Black radical".

[clambake]

I don't like mccain. I voted thompson then romney.

But that's not the point. Since when did Clitbake conveniently start believing millitary people, it sure wasn't around the Swift boat Veteran 2004 barnstorm.
if they were straightup military after capture, then they wouldn't have had the guts to adorn him with that tag. use your head igy

[MannyIsGod]

You mean to tell me that someone who throws a pastor under the bus in order to seek the highest office in the land has balls.

all he did was, "hey i'm not some well to do Uppity Black radical".All you had to say was that you didn't listen to it or that you hadn't read it. Could have saved me some time.

[Ignignokt]

if they were straightup military after capture, then they wouldn't have had the guts to adorn him with that tag. use your head igy

So the swiftboat veterans are telling the truth aswell right?

[Ignignokt]

All you had to say was that you didn't listen to it or that you hadn't read it. Could have saved me some time.


I did listen to it. And actually, i wish i didn't. Could have saved me some time.

[Ignignokt]

People in combat are not ballsy like Obama.

[clambake]

So the swiftboat veterans are telling the truth aswell right?
gee, i don't know. let me step into my time machine and i'll get back to you.

or would you rather stay in 2008 and discuss the reasons as to why the other 2 candidates don't belong in obama's league?

[Ignignokt]

Manny do us all a favor.

When Obama actually delivers a platform different from hillary. THen you can crown him as the next political messiah ready to atone for our racial sins.

[Ignignokt]

gee, i don't know. let me step into my time machine and i'll get back to you.

or would you rather stay in 2008 and discuss the reasons as to why the other 2 candidates don't belong in obama's league?



But McCain existed back in time was there to see it and is running in 2008.

[clambake]

fear the bleks

[MannyIsGod]

I did listen to it. And actually, i wish i didn't. Could have saved me some time.Then your comprehension leaves a lot to be desired. In no way did he throw Wright under the bus - he did the opposite when the polticaly smart thing to do would have been to do just what you said.



And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions - the good and the bad - of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother

[MannyIsGod]

Manny do us all a favor.

When Obama actually delivers a platform different from hillary. THen you can crown him as the next political messiah ready to atone for our racial sins.I believe there is more to a candidate than their platform.

[xrayzebra]

You should have left it without the edit.



If you think this speech was textbook political "damage control" then you are incredibly wrong. I don't know what more to say, but its pretty damn clear that this wasn't your run of the mill political speech. Its a 40 minute mesage on the racial situation in America that frames the origin of Wright's (and many others) comments and the outrage they brought out. It isn't a 1 sentence declaration of how horrible Wrights comments were. It was much much more.

Manny all I got to say is what I posted in another
thread. They guy is what he is a political animal who
can read a speech off of prompters. But when he
doesn't have those prompters he sounds just like what
he is a bumbling idiot.

What I posted earlier:

Yeah he can deliver a speech. He can also throw his
Grandmother under the bus and love his minister. He
is going to bring us all together. I don't think so. He
is a friggin liar in the first degree. Remember he wasn't
there for any of his most wonderful minister's sermon's
but now he was but just didn't agree with them.

He wants to raise taxes
He wants to have national health
He wants to surrender in Iraq
He supports his "hate" America minister
His wife has only liked America, it was such a mean
place, until he ran for President

Yeah he is going to bring everyone together. Get a
gripe Obama supporters, he isn't trying to bring anyone
together except the haters and liberal's. He is what he
is a smooth talking politicians and you better
recognize it.

Unquote

Funny I didn't see the sky open, a choir singing in the
background and those heavenly sun beams shinning down
like you Manny. You are one dense individual.

[clambake]

becoming more and more irrelevant, ray.

[Ignignokt]

I believe there is more to a candidate than their platform.


Lets see;

Obama's experience............ X

Obama's stance on the issues ...........X, the same as hillary's.

......


You know what?


Even Bill Clinton practiced better third rail politics than obama.

What makes Obama the great uniter? anyway.

His speeking ablities?

[MannyIsGod]

Honestly dude, you don't believe in the guy, so why am I going to sit here wasting time arguing with you on the subject? Don't vote for him if you don't like him! Its fine. But don't say things that aren't true like you did above and then just ignore it when I point out how obviously wrong you are.

I believe in Obama because of what he says. Because of speeches like this. I can point to so many things in this speech that you'd be hard pressed to find equivalents for in any policy/speech/statement from any other modern American politician but there is no use pointing them out to you because you've already written it off.

[Ignignokt]

what issue does obama stray away from the dnc?

How is he different than hillary?

i want these awnsers.

[Ignignokt]

Honestly dude, you don't believe in the guy, so why am I going to sit here wasting time arguing with you on the subject? Don't vote for him if you don't like him! Its fine. But don't say things that aren't true like you did above and then just ignore it when I point out how obviously wrong you are.

I believe in Obama because of what he says. Because of speeches like this. I can point to so many things in this speech that you'd be hard pressed to find equivalents for in any policy/speech/statement from any other modern American politician but there is no use pointing them out to you because you've already written it off.


I don't care about his speech.

I unlike you am not surprised he's able to say these things. He has a free pass by the media. He won't get grilled on his stances and he's free to make grandiose statements.

I would believe in him to if he had a real platform.

bUt that's the difference between you and me. I believe in action, you believe in words.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't believe his platform is very different from Clinton's. There are minor differences but for the most part the policy positions are the same.

How is he different from Hilary? Seriously? You're honestly asking this? He's not the career politician that Hilary is. He didn't vote for the Iraq war the way Hilary did. He isn't the polarizing figure Hilary is. He's a milestone that I believe would mean an incredible amount to a generation of minorities who view the world as unfair to them. Hilary is not that.

[BonnerDynasty]

Talk is cheap.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't care about his speech.

I unlike you am not surprised he's able to say these things. He has a free pass by the media. He won't get grilled on his stances and he's free to make grandiose statements.

I would believe in him to if he had a real platform.

bUt that's the difference between you and me. I believe in action, you believe in words.I've never understood the free pass mentality. What exactly is he getting a free pass on? What isn't being scrutinized? What is a "real" platform and how does he lack it?

[Ignignokt]

I don't believe his platform is very different from Clinton's. There are minor differences but for the most part the policy positions are the same.

How is he different from Hilary? Seriously? You're honestly asking this? He's not the career politician that Hilary is. He didn't vote for the Iraq war the way Hilary did. He isn't the polarizing figure Hilary is. He's a milestone that I believe would mean an incredible amount to a generation of minorities who view the world as unfair to them. Hilary is not that.


He wasn't around to make the decision, he has the privelege to basically claim whatever he wants. ANd another thing while he was running for office, where was his balls then? He flip flopped on that issue, and was basically eye for eye saying the same thing that hillary was saying at the time.


Here we are all bitching becuase america always votes for the candidate with the best superficial and surface qualities. And what does Manny do?

he tells us to vote for a candidate because he has better superficial qualities than the shebitch. Nevermind his policies won't bring change, they're the same as clintons. and Universal healthcare has already been proposed. WHat new things is Obama proposing.



silence....

[MannyIsGod]

He wasn't around to make the decision, he has the privelege to basically claim whatever he wants. ANd another thing while he was running for office, where was his balls then? He flip flopped on that issue, and was basically eye for eye saying the same thing that hillary was saying at the time.


Here we are all bitching becuase america always votes for the candidate with the best superficial and surface qualities. And what does Manny do?

he tells us to vote for a candidate because he has better superficial qualities than the shebitch. Nevermind his policies won't bring change, they're the same as clintons. and Universal healthcare has already been proposed. WHat new things is Obama proposing.



silence....You're focusing on one issue, not his entire platform of issues. This is ridiculous and pretty much why I quite posting a large amount here. If you want to analyze Obama and critique him as a candidate then do it. Go down his platform and look at each issue but to say he's not for change because he and Clinton both want universal HC is so disingenous.

[Ignignokt]

I've never understood the free pass mentality. What exactly is he getting a free pass on? What isn't being scrutinized? What is a "real" platform and how does he lack it?



The guy is recieving the most favorable news coverage of all time. Is not getting questioned about the real differences between him and hillary.

ANd his platform is all DNC and no independent thinking. He's adopted all off the Democrat party splinter groups platforms, and he's claiming he's for change.

Why isn't the media bring up that fact.

I mean if the media can manufacture fake national guard memo's and go the length with them, but they won't touch Rezko's connections with obama, which had not the greedy clintons brought it up. THat story would have never seen the time of day.

[Ignignokt]

You're focusing on one issue, not his entire platform of issues. This is ridiculous and pretty much why I quite posting a large amount here. If you want to analyze Obama and critique him as a candidate then do it. Go down his platform and look at each issue but to say he's not for change because he and Clinton both want universal HC is so disingenous.


If by one issue, you mean his platform. Yeah, newsflash!! that is a whole bunch of issues.

I only used UHC as an example because that's the only real change that would come out of this, which was hillary's baby to begin with. So if anything Hillary is the real change candidate.

but i don't give a fuck.

Between bama and shitlary, i'd vote for obama bin unsubstantive.

[Spurminator]

Since when has the media ever given a shit about politicians' stances on issues? We reap what we sow. Maybe if we weren't so obsessed with juicy scandal when it comes to our public figures we'd hear more about the things we should actually care about.

[MannyIsGod]

The guy is recieving the most favorable news coverage of all time. Is not getting questioned about the real differences between him and hillary.

ANd his platform is all DNC and no independent thinking. He's adopted all off the Democrat party splinter groups platforms, and he's claiming he's for change.

Why isn't the media bring up that fact.

I mean if the media can manufacture fake national guard memo's and go the length with them, but they won't touch Rezko's connections with obama, which had not the greedy clintons brought it up. THat story would have never seen the time of day.Anecdotal. Examples or GTFO. I know its shocking that a democrat has a platform simillar to other democrats but god damn. I understand your bitter about the National Guard stuff but they aren't talking about the Rezko stuff because there is nothing there.

I don't know why you're acting as though the media doesn't have an agenda anyway. Eh, w/e man. This shit gets old fast.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol You honestly want them to report that his platform is a democrats platform?

:lmao

Yeah - that'd be some great news there. I can't imagine why CNN and MSNBC aren't all over that one.

[clambake]

Obama speech: incredibly moving with fearless honesty.

McCain statement on Iraq: he had to be corrected by joe in the middle of it.

[Ignignokt]

Anecdotal. Examples or GTFO. I know its shocking that a democrat has a platform simillar to other democrats but god damn. I understand your bitter about the National Guard stuff but they aren't talking about the Rezko stuff because there is nothing there.

I don't know why you're acting as though the media doesn't have an agenda anyway. Eh, w/e man. This shit gets old fast.

How can one be bitter about the National Guard blooper when it cost your jackass presidential an election, and caused dan rather to resign. If anything i'm exstatic.

I did give you examples of the media going soft on obama, Rezko, and his claims on being for change being one.

Maybe your naive mind can't comprehend. If he's running against hillary and he's saying "vote for me, im for change". one would think that his platform is more current and different from the one his adversary is proposing? Right.

But no, we have to believe he's for change because of his oratorial skills?

give me a break.

I brought the issue.

Is Obama for change?

PRove it.

[clambake]

i guess we could vote for someone that proved today that they still have no idea about the complexities of the Iraqi population.

[MannyIsGod]

Obviously you're not understanding what he's saying change from if you think its from Hilary. He's not running for change in comparison to Hilary. If that was his stance he probably wouldn't be saying in debates that there isn't much difference in their platforms.

How can I have a discussion with you when you when your fundamental arguments are based in fantasy?

[Ignignokt]

:lol You honestly want them to report that his platform is a democrats platform?

:lmao


No, just want the media to question how adopting the same Washington style democrat politics is actually considered change.


Yeah - that'd be some great news there. I can't imagine why CNN and MSNBC aren't all over that one.


Me neither.

[Ignignokt]

Obviously you're not understanding what he's saying change from if you think its from Hilary. He's not running for change in comparison to Hilary. If that was his stance he probably wouldn't be saying in debates that there isn't much difference in their platforms.

How can I have a discussion with you when you when your fundamental arguments are based in fantasy?


obviously manny didn't watch the DNC debates when obama was actually saying he's the candidate for change.

I mean if all the democrats were for change, he'd have said, we're the candidates for change. But that wasn't the case.

So how can i ever discuss with you the merits of a good presidiential candidate when your expectations of those merits are based on fantasy?

[MannyIsGod]

If there was anything to the rezko situation the media would be all over it. They LOVE scandals. The simple truth is there is nothing there newsworthy. Thats not taking it easy on anything. Thats just the way it is.

[MannyIsGod]

obviously manny didn't watch the DNC debates when obama was actually saying he's the candidate for change.

I mean if all the democrats were for change, he'd have said, we're the candidates for change. But that wasn't the case.

So how can i ever discuss with you the merits of a good presidiential candidate when your expectations of those merits are based on fantasy?You obviously have missed the context of his statements or simply continue to ignore them.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm done now - this thread is sufficiently derailed.

[Ignignokt]

If there was anything to the rezko situation the media would be all over it. They LOVE scandals. The simple truth is there is nothing there newsworthy. Thats not taking it easy on anything. Thats just the way it is.


Okay, if you must have that much faith in the media.

[Ignignokt]

You obviously have missed the context of his statements or simply continue to ignore them.

SO did hillary and edwards.

[Ignignokt]

bring back the great society.

Yeah that's change.

Obama supporters are the biggest batches of douches.

Obama's message is not about change, but his platform is just pandering to the left of his party. His policies are a return to the age of Carter, Mondale, and Johnshon.

His message is not of change, but of a "retrospective" rekindling of proggressive politics.

Actual change politicians were Ross Perot in 92. Nader in 00.

Yet none of these guys were great speakers. therefore they never fit the criteria of change for gullible people like MannyisallboutWords.

[clambake]

being able to listen, yet not hear is something people should not put on their resume.

[Ignignokt]

hell bush deviated farther from the republican party on his first run for governor and president than obama has ever done from his party.

[DarrinS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzIhurEubco&feature=related

[PixelPusher]

I don't care about his speech.

bUt that's the difference between you and me. I believe in action, you believe in words.



I voted Thompson then Romney.

[Ignignokt]

Romney did bring change for Massachussets, brought it out of the red, brought healthcare to the state.

THanx for proving my point. Are you that idiotic?

[PixelPusher]

Romney did bring change for Massachussets, brought it out of the red, brought healthcare to the state.

THanx for proving my point. Are you that idiotic?
You whine about Obama's lack of substance, then you tell everyone you voted first for the lazy actor, then the robo-politician who radically tansformed himself from "liberal enough to get elected in Massachusetts" to "Limbaugh approved arch-conservative".

[Ignignokt]

You whine about Obama's lack of substance, then you tell everyone you voted first for the lazy actor, then the robo-politician who radically tansformed himself from "liberal enough to get elected in Massachusetts" to "Limbaugh approved arch-conservative".

i voted for their platforms, and not because of some silly slogan. so your point is moot.

Both Romney and Thompson have had more experience than Obama btw.

funny how calling someone lazy while ignoring the 100 no votes no show record in illinoise as someone who is productive.

name one accomplishment of obama.

if not shut up.

[PixelPusher]

i voted for their platforms, and not because of some silly slogan. so your point is moot.

Did you vote for Bush in 2000 based on his platform? You know, things like "We gotta cut government spending!" and "We are not in the business of nation building".

But you go right ahead and mark up your platform checklist.

[Ignignokt]

Did you vote for Bush in 2000 based on his platform? You know, things like "We gotta cut government spending!" and "We are not in the business of nation building".

But you go right ahead and mark up your platform checklist.

Yes, and he failed to accomplish what he did. But 911 changed him. had 911 not happened, i think he could have balanced the budget better, and followed on what he promised. Bill Clinton didn't follow through on everything either, nor every other president before him.

But, it's rather wise to vote on platform issues rather than personality, would be a general principle.

Unless this is a Highschool Student president election.

[Ignignokt]

anymore cut and paste witty moveon.org statements you have to make Pixel Pusher. Or are you gonna get to address on how Obama actually stands for change.


Pointless Iraq war banter in 3...2.....1......

[PixelPusher]

Both Romney and Thompson have had more experience than Obama btw.
Really? Did either of these guys serve in previous white house administrations? What extra "experience" does Thompson have besides being a Senator for 7 years? What super secret Federal Government training program did State Governor Romney undergo to make him more qualified to be President?


funny how calling someone lazy while ignoring the 100 no votes no show record in illinoise as someone who is productive.

Voting "present" is not a "no show", it requires him to be "present" on the floor to vote "present"...hence the term, "present".

And this is a common practice, part of wheeling and dealing amongst state senators to craft legistlation.

[PixelPusher]

Yes, and he failed to accomplish what he did. But 911 changed him. had 911 not happened, i think he could have balanced the budget better, and followed on what he promised. Bill Clinton didn't follow through on everything either, nor every other president before him.
Ah, the old "9/11 changed everything" dodge. Yep, Ted Stevens needed a bridge to nowhere because 9/11 changed everything. Indiana needed millions in Homeland Security money to protect flea markets and bowling alleys from al-Qaeda because 9/11 changed everything.


But, it's rather wise to vote on platform issues rather than personality, would be a general principle.

Unless this is a Highschool Student president election.
What's the point of voting for someone's platform if the candidate doesn't follow through on it? Personality is superficial, but character & judgement isn't.

[PixelPusher]

anymore cut and paste witty moveon.org statements you have to make Pixel Pusher. Or are you gonna get to address on how Obama actually stands for change.

I'd run into the same problem Manny had, since you've already decided that Obama is disingenuous in what he's said and what he's written. I take him at his word, you don't.

I think tone and nuance matters, you prefer a platform checklist.

What more is there to say?

[Ignignokt]

Ah, the old "9/11 changed everything" dodge. Yep, Ted Stevens needed a bridge to nowhere because 9/11 changed everything. Indiana needed millions in Homeland Security money to protect flea markets and bowling alleys from al-Qaeda because 9/11 changed everything.


You're sad. Did ted stevens ever make that claim?


What's the point of voting for someone's platform if the candidate doesn't follow through on it? Personality is superficial, but character & judgement isn't.

Just not the type of voter who votes for likeability.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I'm done now - this thread is sufficiently derailed.it was derailed when you tied "a more perfect union" to a racial "clearing up" speech by the man that will, God help us, run this country in january.

ok let me get this straight. he says he can't distance himself from his pastor just like he can't distance himself to his white grandmother. ok.
20 years. man, all of that time and this guy's pastor has no influence on him? i don't buy it. hello socialism. hello "global warming" tax. God bless these next 4 years. No candidate does it for me. none.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I don't believe his platform is very different from Clinton's. There are minor differences but for the most part the policy positions are the same.

How is he different from Hilary? Seriously? You're honestly asking this? He's not the career politician that Hilary is. He didn't vote for the Iraq war the way Hilary did. He isn't the polarizing figure Hilary is. He's a milestone that I believe would mean an incredible amount to a generation of minorities who view the world as unfair to them. Hilary is not that.



Manny and Ignigokt are picture perfect examples of Obama supporters and voters without a top choice, respectively. I've talked in person with people who have basically said the same exact things that Ignignokt has said. The truth is that they voice a valid concern. There are many many moderate-to-right-leaning voters out there who want to see Obama make himself unique and stand apart in a way other than his bad ass speeches. They want him to tell them "Okay, this is how I am going to do it..." Ignigokt said himself that once Obama explains his proposed mechanisms for change, he'd vote for the guy. He and many others like him are maybe even secretly hoping that Obama will begin to flesh out some real mechanisms of change. But for the here and now, he is Hillary with an awesome personality.

I actually agree with gtown, about Obama only being able to make this speech because of who he is, yadda yadda, but I don't see that as a bad thing. If this is the guy it will take to further America down the road towards some ideal known as racial and social equality, then I'll gladly vote for him.


Also, Manny, I don't think you realize how the developments of the past month or so have effectively made Barack Obama more and more of a polarizing figure himself. I don't want to go into whether or not any of his staff are anti-semetic, because that's semantics, what matters is that there are a fuckton of jews in this country, they always vote in high numbers, and the second they sense a politician possibly criticizing our Israel policy, they act. And that's not even to get into the Hillary-fanatic-woman-voter bloc who will never vote for a man who has defeated their idol.

[Mr. Peabody]

Manny and Ignigokt are picture perfect examples of Obama supporters and voters without a top choice, respectively. I've talked in person with people who have basically said the same exact things that Ignignokt has said. The truth is that they voice a valid concern. There are many many moderate-to-right-leaning voters out there who want to see Obama make himself unique and stand apart in a way other than his bad ass speeches. They want him to tell them "Okay, this is how I am going to do it..." Ignigokt said himself that once Obama explains his proposed mechanisms for change, he'd vote for the guy. He and many others like him are maybe even secretly hoping that Obama will begin to flesh out some real mechanisms of change. But for the here and now, he is Hillary with an awesome personality.



I think some people don't understand the type of change that Obama supporters are hoping to see. It's not necessarily a change in platform from Hillary. Let's face it, both Hillary and Obama have similar progressive agendas. The whole notion of "change" that Obama supporters are rallying around is a change to our approach on government.

Look at his campaign. Obama has a record-setting donor base and record-setting fundraising. He's raised money from over a million people donating an average of $120 each. It's a grassroots funded campaign. That's a change from recent elections. That's a change from the DNC-McAuliffe style of campaigning where you hit up big donors. Look at Obama's recent disclosure of earmarks. The whole point of releasing such information is to get more elected officials to do the same and this is a change to the way our politicians usually operate. Look at yesterday's speech. Obama took on an issue that most people are uncomfortable talking about (this country's latent racism). Now the issue of racism is at the forefront of our conversation and being discussed with a new-found candor.

On the day of the primary here in Texas, I was interviewed by the BBC. The reporter asked me why I support Obama. My response was that I supported him for his approach to politics. I said I was tired of hearing about how Republicans are evil from Democrats I spoke to and Democratic candidates. I said I have many friends and family that are Republicans and they want the same things I do out of life. I said I didn't want to hear about how we are going to "Fight the Republicans" from my candidate because that's not going to accomplish anything except for create more disharmony. I acknowledged that I'm not naive about the differences in the party, but I do think our country is not as polarized as people say it is.

My thing was that I finally had a candidate that spoke as candidly as politicians can nowadays and I appreciated that. I remember when Obama caught a lot of grief from dyed-in-the-wool liberals for daring to recognize that Ronald Reagan did more for his party than Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter did for theirs'. But that's how polarized and ridiculous this nation has become. You can't acknowledge the accomplishments of "the other side" without being raked over the coals by your own party.

I was impressed with those comments, because Obama actually said what he thought as opposed to repeating the party line. On the Daily Kos, people exploded in anger that he didn't mention any Democrats as "transformative figures" in that discussion, but again, why should he have to? That whole conversation reminded me of when Mike Brown said Lebron James was the most talented player he ever coached and the Spurs forum went apeshit with comments like "Why didn't he acknowledge Tim Duncan?". That's the level our political discourse has been at recently.

And don't get me wrong. I don't think he's perfect candidate or the Messiah, as the meme goes. I've said on this board a few times that I expect to be disappointed once he takes office. I sincerely hope he sticks to his word and implements changes such as a more open government and more citizen invovlement once he takes office. I do. But at the very least, if he can at least get some of his agenda through, a progressive agenda, that's more than Hillary would have been able to do and that's all the "change" I need right now.

[101A]

Honestly dude, you don't believe in the guy, so why am I going to sit here wasting time arguing with you on the subject? Don't vote for him if you don't like him! Its fine. But don't say things that aren't true like you did above and then just ignore it when I point out how obviously wrong you are.

I believe in Obama because of what he says. Because of speeches like this. I can point to so many things in this speech that you'd be hard pressed to find equivalents for in any policy/speech/statement from any other modern American politician but there is no use pointing them out to you because you've already written it off.
Frankly, you're right Manny. Those passages from the speach you posted ARE things I've never heard a Democrat politician say. I have, however, heard Republican politicians say them...and they are usually called racist for it. Those aren't new ideas; they are truisms. Welfare hurt black (sic. poor) people? Absolutely! Just look at the illegitimacy rate since the "War on Poverty" began! I've posted the same things ON THIS FORUM!!! Vote for me!!

But, you know what? It IS refreshing to hear Obama SAY it...it's a good dialogue to have, and one that simply doesn't get started by a Converative saying it; the media/lberals/YOU won't listen.

THAT said; Barrack Obama is an United States Senator!!! He doesn't need to just SAY it...he is in the very unique position of DOING something about these issues he so "bravely" brought up in his SPEECH!!

Has he?

Has he sponsored legislation to reform welfare, to fix problems with it? Not that I've heard. What about any of the other "brave" issues he talked about in his speech? Any legislation from his office? Any talks on the floor of the Senate? Anything at all? Or will he only reveal the implementation of his brave words if we anoin....er....elect him President?

Actions >>>>>>> Words.

He is a United States Senator.

[peewee's lovechild]

Will Manny vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination?

I'm curious.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Obama: Fire Imus
Obama First White House Contender to Call for Imus' Firing Over Racial Slur
By JAKE TAPPER

April 11, 2007—

In an interview with ABC News Wednesday afternoon, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., called for the firing of talk radio host Don Imus. Obama said he would never again appear on Imus' show, which is broadcast on CBS Radio and MSNBC television.

"I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus," Obama told ABC News, "but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude."

Obama said he appeared once on Imus' show two years ago, and "I have no intention of returning."

Racial Slur Stirs Trouble for Shock Jock

Last week, Imus referred to the Rutgers University women's basketball team, most of whom are African-American, as "nappy-headed hos." He has since apologized for his remarks, and CBS and MSNBC suspended his show for two weeks.

"He didn't just cross the line," Obama said. "He fed into some of the worst stereotypes that my two young daughters are having to deal with today in America. The notions that as young African-American women -- who I hope will be athletes -- that that somehow makes them less beautiful or less important. It was a degrading comment. It's one that I'm not interested in supporting."

Though every major presidential candidate has decried the racist remarks, Obama is the first one to say Imus should lose his job for them.

His proclamation was the latest in an ever-expanding list of bad news for Imus.

Sponsors, including American Express Co., General Motors Corp., Procter & Gamble Co., and Staples Inc. -- have announced they are pulling advertisements from the show for the indefinite future.

Tuesday, the basketball team held a press conference.

"I think that this has scarred me for life," said Matee Ajavon. "We grew up in a world where racism exists, and there's nothing we can do to change that."

"What we've been seeing around this country is this constant ratcheting up of a coarsening of the culture that all of have to think about," Obama said.

"Insults, humor that degrades women, humor that is based in racism and racial stereotypes isn't fun," the senator told ABC News.

"And the notion that somehow it's cute or amusing, or a useful diversion, I think, is something that all of us have to recognize is just not the case. We all have First Amendment rights. And I am a constitutional lawyer and strongly believe in free speech, but as a culture, we really have to do some soul-searching to think about what kind of toxic information are we feeding our kids," he concluded.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3031317&page=1

[peewee's lovechild]

"And the notion that somehow it's cute or amusing, or a useful diversion, I think, is something that all of us have to recognize is just not the case. We all have First Amendment rights. And I am a constitutional lawyer and strongly believe in free speech, but as a culture, we really have to do some soul-searching to think about what kind of toxic information are we feeding our kids," he concluded.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3031317&page=1

I'm just curious, has he blasted the rap industry for using such words in their rap lyrics?

I wonder where he stands on this.

[xrayzebra]

Obama: Fire Imus
Obama First White House Contender to Call for Imus' Firing Over Racial Slur
By JAKE TAPPER

April 11, 2007—

In an interview with ABC News Wednesday afternoon, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., called for the firing of talk radio host Don Imus. Obama said he would never again appear on Imus' show, which is broadcast on CBS Radio and MSNBC television.

"I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus," Obama told ABC News, "but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude."

Obama said he appeared once on Imus' show two years ago, and "I have no intention of returning."

Racial Slur Stirs Trouble for Shock Jock

Last week, Imus referred to the Rutgers University women's basketball team, most of whom are African-American, as "nappy-headed hos." He has since apologized for his remarks, and CBS and MSNBC suspended his show for two weeks.

"He didn't just cross the line," Obama said. "He fed into some of the worst stereotypes that my two young daughters are having to deal with today in America. The notions that as young African-American women -- who I hope will be athletes -- that that somehow makes them less beautiful or less important. It was a degrading comment. It's one that I'm not interested in supporting."

Though every major presidential candidate has decried the racist remarks, Obama is the first one to say Imus should lose his job for them.

His proclamation was the latest in an ever-expanding list of bad news for Imus.

Sponsors, including American Express Co., General Motors Corp., Procter & Gamble Co., and Staples Inc. -- have announced they are pulling advertisements from the show for the indefinite future.

Tuesday, the basketball team held a press conference.

"I think that this has scarred me for life," said Matee Ajavon. "We grew up in a world where racism exists, and there's nothing we can do to change that."

"What we've been seeing around this country is this constant ratcheting up of a coarsening of the culture that all of have to think about," Obama said.

"Insults, humor that degrades women, humor that is based in racism and racial stereotypes isn't fun," the senator told ABC News.

"And the notion that somehow it's cute or amusing, or a useful diversion, I think, is something that all of us have to recognize is just not the case. We all have First Amendment rights. And I am a constitutional lawyer and strongly believe in free speech, but as a culture, we really have to do some soul-searching to think about what kind of toxic information are we feeding our kids," he concluded.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3031317&page=1


Oh my, now what is manny going to say. First Imus and
then his Grandmother. But he still has the crazy uncle
who he just cant give up. Oh, I forgot both of them,
Imus and his Grandmother are white and prejudice.
His crazy uncle is just.......well........you know........
had the black experience. :spin

[Extra Stout]

Obama: Fire Imus
Obama First White House Contender to Call for Imus' Firing Over Racial Slur
By JAKE TAPPER

April 11, 2007—

In an interview with ABC News Wednesday afternoon, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., called for the firing of talk radio host Don Imus. Obama said he would never again appear on Imus' show, which is broadcast on CBS Radio and MSNBC television.

"I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus," Obama told ABC News, "but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude."

Obama said he appeared once on Imus' show two years ago, and "I have no intention of returning."

Racial Slur Stirs Trouble for Shock Jock

Last week, Imus referred to the Rutgers University women's basketball team, most of whom are African-American, as "nappy-headed hos." He has since apologized for his remarks, and CBS and MSNBC suspended his show for two weeks.

"He didn't just cross the line," Obama said. "He fed into some of the worst stereotypes that my two young daughters are having to deal with today in America. The notions that as young African-American women -- who I hope will be athletes -- that that somehow makes them less beautiful or less important. It was a degrading comment. It's one that I'm not interested in supporting."

Though every major presidential candidate has decried the racist remarks, Obama is the first one to say Imus should lose his job for them.

His proclamation was the latest in an ever-expanding list of bad news for Imus.

Sponsors, including American Express Co., General Motors Corp., Procter & Gamble Co., and Staples Inc. -- have announced they are pulling advertisements from the show for the indefinite future.

Tuesday, the basketball team held a press conference.

"I think that this has scarred me for life," said Matee Ajavon. "We grew up in a world where racism exists, and there's nothing we can do to change that."

"What we've been seeing around this country is this constant ratcheting up of a coarsening of the culture that all of have to think about," Obama said.

"Insults, humor that degrades women, humor that is based in racism and racial stereotypes isn't fun," the senator told ABC News.

"And the notion that somehow it's cute or amusing, or a useful diversion, I think, is something that all of us have to recognize is just not the case. We all have First Amendment rights. And I am a constitutional lawyer and strongly believe in free speech, but as a culture, we really have to do some soul-searching to think about what kind of toxic information are we feeding our kids," he concluded.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3031317&page=1
And that, ladies and gentlemen, will be the next news cycle...

[smeagol]

Will Manny vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination?

I'm curious.

You won't vote for Obama if he wins . . .

[xrayzebra]

Dr Thomas Sowell take on Obama's speech.



Jewish World Review March 19, 2008 / 12 Adar II 5768

Obama's speech

By Thomas Sowell




http://www.JewishWorldReview.com


Did Senator Barack Obama's speech in Philadelphia convince people that he is still a viable candidate to be President of the United States, despite the adverse reactions to statements by his pastor, Jeremiah Wright?


The polls and the primaries will answer that question. The great unasked question for Senator Obama is the question that was asked about President Nixon during the Watergate scandal; What did he know and when did he know it?


Although Senator Obama would now have us believe that he is shocked, shocked, at what Jeremiah Wright said, that he was not in the church when pastor Wright said those things from the pulpit, this still leaves the question of why he disinvited Wright from the event at which he announced his candidacy for the Democratic Party's presidential nomination a year ago.


Either Barack Obama or his staff must have known then that Jeremiah Wright was not someone whom they wanted to expose to the media and to the media scrutiny to which that could lead.


Why not, if it is only now that Senator Obama is learning for the first time, to his surprise, what kinds of things Jeremiah Wright has been saying and doing?


No one had to be in church the day Wright made his inflammatory and obscene remarks to know about them.


The cable news journalists who are playing the tapes of those sermons were not there. The tapes were on sale in the church itself. Obama knew that because he had bought one or more of those tapes.


But even if there were no tapes, and even if Obama never heard from other members of the church what their pastor was saying, he spent 20 years in that church, not just as an ordinary member but also as someone who once donated $20,000 to the church.


There was no way that he didn't know about Jeremiah Wright's anti-American and racist diatribes from the pulpit.


Someone once said that a con man's job is not to convince skeptics but to enable people to continue to believe what they already want to believe.


Accordingly, Obama's Philadelphia speech — a theatrical masterpiece — will probably reassure most Democrats and some other Obama supporters. They will undoubtedly say that we should now "move on," even though many Democrats have still not yet moved on from George W. Bush's 2000 election victory.


Like the Soviet show trials during their 1930s purges, Obama's speech was not supposed to convince critics but to reassure supporters and fellow-travelers, in order to keep the "useful idiots" useful.


Best-selling author Shelby Steele's recent book on Barack Obama ("A Bound Man") has valuable insights into both the man and the circumstances facing many other blacks — especially those who were never part of the black ghetto culture but who feel a need to identify with it for either personal, political or financial reasons.


Like religious converts who become more Catholic than the Pope, such people often become blacker-than-thou. For whatever reason, Barack Obama chose a black extremist church decades ago — even though there was no shortage of very different churches, both black and white — in Chicago.


Some say that he was trying to earn credibility on the ghetto streets, to facilitate his work as a community activist or for his political career. We may never know why.


But now that Barack Obama is running for a presidential nomination, he is doing so on a radically different basis, as a post-racial candidate uniquely prepared to bring us all together.


Yet the past continues to follow him, despite his attempts to bury it and the mainstream media's attempts to ignore it or apologize for it.


Shelby Steele depicts Barack Obama as a man without real convictions, "an iconic figure who neglected to become himself."


Senator Obama has been at his best as an icon, able with his command of words to meet other people's psychic needs, including a need to dispel white guilt by supporting his candidacy.


But President of the United States, in a time of national danger, under a looming threat of nuclear terrorism? No.

[peewee's lovechild]

You won't vote for Obama if he wins . . .

That's because I stand behind my choice.

I can't be bashing Obama and then vote for him with a clear conscience.

I'm just wondering if Manny will do the same.

[peewee's lovechild]

The cable news journalists who are playing the tapes of those sermons were not there. The tapes were on sale in the church itself. Obama knew that because he had bought one or more of those tapes.

If there is proof of this, it will prove to be extremely damaging to Obama's credibility.

He would be caught in a lie.
He would be exposed as just another politician, the type of politician he says he is not.

[JoeChalupa]

I prefer to have my own take on Obama's speech. No offense to Thomas Sowell. You can find positive takes on his speech as well as negative.
I'm still supporting Barack Obama.

[JoeChalupa]

That's because I stand behind my choice.

I can't be bashing Obama and then vote for him with a clear conscience.

I'm just wondering if Manny will do the same.

If Hillary wins the nomination I may vote for McCain.

[peewee's lovechild]

If Hillary wins the nomination I may vote for McCain.

McCain and Obama's platforms are extremely different.
How can you vote for McCain?

Is this proof that you're just being swept up in the Obamamentum?

[smeagol]

I can't be bashing Obama and then vote for him with a clear conscience.



If Hillary wins the nomination I may vote for McCain.

:rolleyes

More evidence Democrats don't deserve to win in November . . .

[peewee's lovechild]

:rolleyes

More evidence Democrats don't deserve to win in November . . .

I don't know how else to get it through to that pea brain of yours.

I'm not a Democrat.

Why would I vote for someone I don't believe in?

JoeChalupa voting for McCain if Obama doesn't get the nomination doesn't make sense. However, me not voting for someone I don't believe in makes all the sense in the world.

[JoeChalupa]

I don't know how else to get it through to that pea brain of yours.

I'm not a Democrat.

Why would I vote for someone I don't believe in?

JoeChalupa voting for McCain if Obama doesn't get the nomination doesn't make sense. However, me not voting for someone I don't believe in makes all the sense in the world.

Your not voting at all doesn't make any sense to me. The not voting for someone you don't believe does, but simply not voting doesn't.

I've had said many times that I like John McCain and could see me voting for him. And I do believe in John McCain as an honorable man. Much more so than President Bush.

Think outside the box.

[JoeChalupa]

:rolleyes

More evidence Democrats don't deserve to win in November . . .

The best candidate deserves to win.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!

[peewee's lovechild]

Your not voting at all doesn't make any sense to me. The not voting for someone you don't believe does, but simply not voting doesn't.

I've had said many times that I like John McCain and could see me voting for him. And I do believe in John McCain as an honorable man. Much more so than President Bush.

Think outside the box.

So, you're saying that I should vote for someone that I don't believe in just for the sake of voting?

That makes no sense at all.

[JoeChalupa]

McCain and Obama's platforms are extremely different.
How can you vote for McCain?

Is this proof that you're just being swept up in the Obamamentum?

No, but I have been swept up by the fact that as an American I have the right to vote for which ever candidate I choose to and don't have to explain myself to you or anyone else.


But I find myself doing it on message boards all the time. :smokin

[JoeChalupa]

So, you're saying that I should vote for someone that I don't believe in just for the sake of voting?

That makes no sense at all.

Does this?

A write-in candidate is a candidate in an election whose name does not appear on the ballot, but for whom voters may vote nonetheless by writing in the person's name.

[peewee's lovechild]

No, but I have been swept up by the fact that as an American I have the right to vote for which ever candidate I choose to and don't have to explain myself to you or anyone else.


But I find myself doing it on message boards all the time. :smokin

:lol :lol :lol

That was funny.

You're right, everyone has that right.
But, I also have the right to not to vote for someone I don't believe in.

[JoeChalupa]

:lol :lol :lol

That was funny.

You're right, everyone has that right.
But, I also have the right to not to vote for someone I don't believe in.

I concur. :tu I've just never missed a predidential election since I turned of voting age. That is all.

[peewee's lovechild]

Does this?

A write-in candidate is a candidate in an election whose name does not appear on the ballot, but for whom voters may vote nonetheless by writing in the person's name.

If my candidate doesn't get the nomination, there's no point to write her name in.

It's a pointless gesture, akin to using a spoon to take the water out of a sinking ship.

[peewee's lovechild]

I concur. :tu I've just never missed a predidential election since I turned of voting age. That is all.

This would be my first.

[xrayzebra]

Your not voting at all doesn't make any sense to me. The not voting for someone you don't believe does, but simply not voting doesn't.

I've had said many times that I like John McCain and could see me voting for him. And I do believe in John McCain as an honorable man. Much more so than President Bush.

Think outside the box.


Joe, you consider Obama an honorable man? How is he
honorable? Explain this to me.

[RandomGuy]

Typical misinformation from an Obama cultist; Hillary flew with Sinbad and Sheryl Crow.

(nods) I see. Maybe Sheryl will be her running mate. :lol

[RandomGuy]

It's called damage control.

And, if I had to give him a grade on it, I'd give him a B.

Heh, the pundits seem to disagree.

Although the BBC guy I read this morning seemed to think that his honesty will "kill" his campaign.

Actually, I saw much of the speech and thought it was pretty darn brilliant as well.

Quite frankly, it completely erased any lingering doubts I had about supporting him.

[xrayzebra]

Heh, the pundits seem to disagree.

Although the BBC guy I read this morning seemed to think that his honesty will "kill" his campaign.

Actually, I saw much of the speech and thought it was pretty darn brilliant as well.

Quite frankly, it completely erased any lingering doubts I had about supporting him.

Yep one more. I watched. But didn't really listen to
what he really said. He was brilliant. The birds sang
louder and the world was just a nicer place to live in
since he spoke. Yeah, you bet. Wonder how his
old racist Grandmother feels, who loved him so much.
Obviously all white folks are racist.

[RandomGuy]

Joe, you consider Obama an honorable man? How is he
honorable? Explain this to me.

Well for one thing, he didn't completely throw the preacher in question "under the bus".

That would have made me really leery.

He did say what he thought about what the guy said, in an honest, thoughtful way.

(shrugs)

We all have our crazy uncles, and although I don't agree with Uncle Buster that "they are rustlin' up them crazy cows from Mexica through the valley, I know 'cuz I SEEN 'em", I still love the old coot.

He could have easily simply totally thrown the guy under the bus in order to get elected. That would have been what a lot of critics said should have happened, but would lack, in my opinion, integrity.

He proved that he is willing to take the hits for not totally abondoning a guy he has known for 20 years.

This and several other incidents have reinforced his words (and I am paraphrasing here) "I will not do ANYTHING to win this election, I will win it on my terms and in a way to be proud of."

Good gawd, he is the first guy in a long time that might actually mean what he says.

[Mr. Peabody]

Huckabee chimes in on the Wright controversy on Morning Joe (via Daily Kos)


HUCKABEE: [Obama] made the point, and I think it's a valid one, that you can't hold the candidate responsible for everything that people around him may say or do. You just can't. Whether it's me, whether it's Obama...anybody else. But he did distance himself from the very vitriolic statements.

Now, the second story. It's interesting to me that there are some people on the left who are having to be very uncomfortable with what Louis Wright said, when they all were all over a Jerry Falwell, or anyone on the right who said things that they found very awkward and uncomfortable years ago. Many times those were statements lifted out of the context of a larger sermon. Sermons, after all, are rarely written word for word by pastors like Reverend Wright, who are delivering them extemporaneously, and caught up in the emotion of the moment. There are things that sometimes get said, that if you put them on paper and looked at them in print, you'd say "Well, I didn't mean to say it quite like that."

JOE SCARBOROUGH: But, but, you never came close to saying five days after September 11th, that America deserved what it got. Or that the American government invented AIDS...

HUCKABEE: Not defending his statements.

JOE SCARBOROUGH: Oh, I know you're not. I know you're not. I'm just wondering though, for a lot of people...Would you not guess that there are a lot of Independent voters in Arkansas that vote for Democrats sometimes, and vote for Republicans sometimes, that are sitting here wondering how Barack Obama's spiritual mentor would call the United States the USKKK?

HUCKABEE: I mean, those were outrageous statements, and nobody can defend the content of them.

JOE SCARBOROUGH: But what's the impact on voters in Arkansas? Swing voters.

HUCKABEE: I don't think we know. If this were October, I think it would have a dramatic impact. But it's not October. It's March. And I don't believe that by the time we get to October, this is gonna be the defining issue of the campaign, and the reason that people vote.

And one other thing I think we've gotta remember. As easy as it is for those of us who are white, to look back and say "That's a terrible statement!"...I grew up in a very segregated south. And I think that you have to cut some slack -- and I'm gonna be probably the only Conservative in America who's gonna say something like this, but I'm just tellin' you -- we've gotta cut some slack to people who grew up being called names, being told "you have to sit in the balcony when you go to the movie. You have to go to the back door to go into the restaurant. And you can't sit out there with everyone else. There's a separate waiting room in the doctor's office. Here's where you sit on the bus..." And you know what? Sometimes people do have a chip on their shoulder and resentment. And you have to just say, I probably would too. I probably would too. In fact, I may have had more of a chip on my shoulder had it been me.

MIKA: I agree with that. I really do.

JOE SCARBOROUGH: It's the Atticus Finch line about walking a mile in somebody else's shoes. I remember when Ronald Reagan got shot in 1981. There were some black students in my school that started applauding and said they hoped that he died. And you just sat there and of course you were angry at first, and then you walked out and started scratching your head going "boy, there is some deep resentment there."

[xrayzebra]

Well for one thing, he didn't completely throw the preacher in question "under the bus".

That would have made me really leery.

He did say what he thought about what the guy said, in an honest, thoughtful way.

(shrugs)

We all have our crazy uncles, and although I don't agree with Uncle Buster that "they are rustlin' up them crazy cows from Mexica through the valley, I know 'cuz I SEEN 'em", I still love the old coot.

He could have easily simply totally thrown the guy under the bus in order to get elected. That would have been what a lot of critics said should have happened, but would lack, in my opinion, integrity.

He proved that he is willing to take the hits for not totally abondoning a guy he has known for 20 years.

This and several other incidents have reinforced his words (and I am paraphrasing here) "I will not do ANYTHING to win this election, I will win it on my terms and in a way to be proud of."

Good gawd, he is the first guy in a long time that might actually mean what he says.

Yeah isn't he wonderful. He keeps the old guy who hates
white folks, but throws his loving grandmother under the
bus. What a guy.

[RandomGuy]

Yep one more. I watched. But didn't really listen to
what he really said. He was brilliant. The birds sang
louder and the world was just a nicer place to live in
since he spoke. Yeah, you bet. Wonder how his
old racist Grandmother feels, who loved him so much.
Obviously all white folks are racist.

That isn't what he said, and on some level you know that.

Ray, you're a good egg. I like ya.

But when it comes to Dems or Republicans you simply have too much confirmation bias to be credible when it comes to analysing these things, no offense.

Dems, no matter who they are, can do/say no right, and Republicans, no matter who they are, can do no wrong.

That kind of thing is the very definition of confirmation bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias).

[xrayzebra]

That isn't what he said, and on some level you know that.

Ray, you're a good egg. I like ya.

But when it comes to Dems or Republicans you simply have too much confirmation bias to be credible when it comes to analysing these things, no offense.

Dems, no matter who they are, can do/say no right, and Republicans, no matter who they are, can do no wrong.



That kind of thing is the very definition of confirmation bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias).

No RG, you know what I noticed more than anything,
not that he threw his Grandmother under the bus, but
that he acknowledged she loved him and help raise him
and made him cringe.........but not once, not one damn
time did he acknowledge he loved her or respected her.

That is something I noticed. Did you?

[RandomGuy]

Yeah isn't he wonderful. He keeps the old guy who hates
white folks, but throws his loving grandmother under the
bus. What a guy.

He didn't throw his grandmother under the bus either. He had the nuts to talk about her as if she were (gasp) human.

He simply pointed out the contradictions and problems that remain in race relations in the country, even to this day, even in people he loves deeply.

[JoeChalupa]

Joe, you consider Obama an honorable man? How is he
honorable? Explain this to me.

I would get blue in the face trying to explain it and you know as well as I do you've made up your mind. In my book you don't have to wear a pin on your lapel to be a man of honor.
I don't need your approval to find honor in someone.
Obama has had his say and it is time to move on.

[RandomGuy]

No RG, you know what I noticed more than anything,
not that he threw his Grandmother under the bus, but
that he acknowledged she loved him and help raise him
and made him cringe.........but not once, not one damn
time did he acknowledge he loved her or respected her.

That is something I noticed. Did you?


(shrugs)
His feelings for his grandmother are quite plain in his book. His love for her wasn't the point that he was trying to make. I don't read anything into it, as I already have sufficient data to know what the guy thinks.

[SA210]

pWe7wTVbLUU


Brilliant.
:sleep

[xrayzebra]

I would get blue in the face trying to explain it and you know as well as I do you've made up your mind. In my book you don't have to wear a pin on your lapel to be a man of honor.
I don't need your approval to find honor in someone.
Obama has had his say and it is time to move on.

Joe you are absolutely correct. You don't need my approval
for anything, as well as I don't need yours.

Again you are correct. I would not vote for Hillary or Obama if they were the only ones running.

But I find neither of them honorable. You say Obama
says it is time to move on. What is he moving on to?
More of the same old programs? He has offered nothing
new. Nothing.

[xrayzebra]

(shrugs)
His feelings for his grandmother are quite plain in his book. His love for her wasn't the point that he was trying to make. I don't read anything into it, as I already have sufficient data to know what the guy thinks.

What was his point in bringing her up then. That she was
white and racist?

[JoeChalupa]

What was his point in bringing her up then. That she was
white and racist?

I don't think so. That she has the same stereotypes as others do. Not one of us is innocent of having racial stereotypes, while not necessarrily being a racist, from time to time. It happens and to ignore that fact is ignorance.

[Holt's Cat]

What was his point in bringing her up then. That she was
white and racist?


Why can't he write a book about his life and mention his grandmother?

[Extra Stout]

I'm a sad, bitter little bitch because I know John Edwards could never pull off a speech like that.

[PixelPusher]

:sleep
Poor thing...all tuckered out from spending all night cross referencing Obama's speech with anything John Edwards ever uttered.

[Ignignokt]

We stood then like Moses, infront of the dead sea....., seeing a sea divided so that a certain generation of people could pass through to escape strife, poverty, and slavery....... But now we have made progress!

We are on higher ground.....

and it is time to seal that division for which we through faith walked for so many years in the desert looking for our souls.

Because with a sea no longer divided......

but with a sea now in unity...

can we wash away the enemy and put them behind us once and for all......

[Ignignokt]

see, i too can make corny allegories and speak about race matters.

I too am an agent of change.....



.....PFFFFFFFFTT!!!

blow me!

[Extra Stout]

see, i too can make corny allegories and speak about race matters.

I too am an agent of change.....



.....PFFFFFFFFTT!!!

blow me!
Your M.Div. diploma is in the mail.

[JoeChalupa]

see, i too can make corny allegories and speak about race matters.

I too am an agent of change.....



.....PFFFFFFFFTT!!!

blow me!

:lmao :lmao

[MannyIsGod]

I really doubt I would for for Clinton should she win PeeWee. I'm not sure I'd vote for McCain either. I'm not sure who I'd vote for.

My vote for president usually comes down to more than platforms on social programs because that is the place where presidents usually have the least control. The ability of congress to come together enough to pass universal healthcare in a form that either candidate lays out is seriously in question at any point. They can both lay out grand plans in that regard but they probably will not be able to get things done. They may get a program or 2 but huge reform is something that is very difficult for me to see happening.

The ability to lead a country however, is something the president will have to do. What choices they will make in regards to our foreign policies and military involvements are much more important to me, and I believe Obama has a leg up on both of the others.

You realize that this is moot, because regardless of what is being reported for ratings sake, Obama has for all intents and purposes won the the nomination.

[smeagol]

This would be my first.


I would have never guessed it . . .

[JoeChalupa]

I really doubt I would for for Clinton should she win PeeWee. I'm not sure I'd vote for McCain either. I'm not sure who I'd vote for.

My vote for president usually comes down to more than platforms on social programs because that is the place where presidents usually have the least control. The ability of congress to come together enough to pass universal healthcare in a form that either candidate lays out is seriously in question at any point. They can both lay out grand plans in that regard but they probably will not be able to get things done. They may get a program or 2 but huge reform is something that is very difficult for me to see happening.

The ability to lead a country however, is something the president will have to do. What choices they will make in regards to our foreign policies and military involvements are much more important to me, and I believe Obama has a leg up on both of the others.

You realize that this is moot, because regardless of what is being reported for ratings sake, Obama has for all intents and purposes won the the nomination.

Good points. I concur. Obama is in position to win the nomination. It is truly up to the Super Delegates and if they will stand with Obama or bail to the "more electable" argument that Hillary will no doubt be pushing.

[peewee's lovechild]

I really doubt I would for for Clinton should she win PeeWee. I'm not sure I'd vote for McCain either. I'm not sure who I'd vote for.

My vote for president usually comes down to more than platforms on social programs because that is the place where presidents usually have the least control. The ability of congress to come together enough to pass universal healthcare in a form that either candidate lays out is seriously in question at any point. They can both lay out grand plans in that regard but they probably will not be able to get things done. They may get a program or 2 but huge reform is something that is very difficult for me to see happening.

The ability to lead a country however, is something the president will have to do. What choices they will make in regards to our foreign policies and military involvements are much more important to me, and I believe Obama has a leg up on both of the others.

You realize that this is moot, because regardless of what is being reported for ratings sake, Obama has for all intents and purposes won the the nomination.

I can respect what you're saying here, though I doubt Obama is as genuine as he portrays himself.

But, I respect where you're coming from.

As for Obama winning the nomination, it's not over yet . . . really.

If both candidates don't reach the required number of elected delegates to win the nomination, and it all point to that happening, it's all up to the Super Delegates.

[peewee's lovechild]

I would have never guessed it . . .

This would be the first presidential election where I don't vote if my candidate isn't nominated.

Where's the joke in that?

[Don Quixote]

The ability to lead a country however, is something the president will have to do. What choices they will make in regards to our foreign policies and military involvements are much more important to me, and I believe Obama has a leg up on both of the others.

How so? I think it's pretty much agreed that Obama is the most gifted public speaker in a generation (in politics anyway). But in what ways would Obama support our domestic and foreign interests better than would Hillary or McCain?