Dallas 0-7 against winning teams since trade via ludden

[ducks]

Dallas 0-7 against winning teams since trade
By Johnny Ludden, Yahoo! Sports
9 hours, 28 minutes ago

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DALLAS – The Dallas Mavericks lost again Thursday, but give them credit. Unlike two nights earlier, Avery Johnson didn’t get cursed out in his office by Mark Cuban.

Cuban and Johnson each had reason to let a few expletives fly after their 94-90 loss to the Boston Celtics. Johnson, for one, stepped to the podium and immediately pointed to the 18-7 disparity in fourth-quarter free-throw attempts as “the difference.”

Some things never change with these Mavericks. They claim not to make excuses and then they make excuses.

But on Thursday, the Mavericks also made something else: progress. They played hard, they defended well and, in the end, they lost to a better team. The Mavericks didn’t give their owner and coach cause to yell at each other, and that’s good. For the next time Cuban and Johnson want to share a four-lettered vocabulary lesson, they would be wise to remember one thing:


This is on both of them.

Cuban and Johnson both wanted to trade for Jason Kidd. They both agreed to part with Devin Harris and DeSagana Diop, to change the core of a team that had grown together for four years. And they both decided to do this with only eight weeks left in the toughest Western Conference race ever.

So when the Mavericks lost Thursday by four points to the NBA’s best team? No one should have been angry – or surprised.

This is what happens when you import an aging point guard to guide your team through the season’s treacherous stretch run. After the Los Angeles Lakers traded for Pau Gasol and the Phoenix Suns brought in Shaquille O’Neal, the Mavericks felt they needed to make their own blockbuster splash. The difference: Neither Gasol nor O’Neal is being asked to direct their respective team’s offense.

“Point guard is the toughest change,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. “That changes everything for you offensively. Even if it’s the same type of player, he still doesn’t know your stuff. I’ve always thought that position changes everything: timing, when certain players get the ball.”

The Mavericks have realized as much. Harris often ran a one-man fastbreak while Dallas’ halfcourt offense was heavy on isolation sets. Kidd, though, is at his best when everyone’s running with him, and that was the case Thursday. Through three quarters, the Mavericks outscored the Celtics 22-4 in fastbreak points.

But when Boston slowed the game in the fourth with its numerous trips to the foul line, allowing time to set up its halfcourt defense? The Mavericks missed 12 of 18 shots, didn’t get a single basket in transition and committed six turnovers.

Kidd accounted for two of those misses, and he went just 1 for 8 for the game while totaling two points, nine assists and 11 rebounds. “I still think it’s not all natural to him yet,” said Dirk Nowitzki, who once rolled to the basket in the fourth quarter only to seem surprised when Kidd delivered a quick pass to him over the top of the defense.

Kidd also has had to get acclimated to Johnson directing the offense from the sideline.

“I try to execute what he calls, but my instinct is to try to get an easy basket,” Kidd said. “It’s just getting comfortable with these guys and understanding how easy the game can be if we can get out and run and get easy baskets.”

The next step, Kidd said, is convincing his new teammates they can run even after made baskets. You get the feeling he also needs to convince his new coach. Johnson was controlling as a player and he’s controlling now. When the Mavericks lost to the Spurs earlier this month, Johnson sat Kidd for the final, critical possessions, saying he preferred to have a better shooter on the floor.

Kidd was on the court in crunch time on Thursday, but the Mavericks are limited with what they can run until he gets more familiar with the offense.

“You almost have to give him freedom to try to figure it out,” Rivers said. “That’s difficult because, as a coach, you want to call something and you’re not sure if he knows it or not.”

Only time will cure that, and the Mavericks don’t have much of it. A guess: They will look smarter next season for making this trade.


“If we had our druthers,” Mavericks guard Jerry Stackhouse said, “we would have rather had the trade in December or January.”

Or July. After acquiring Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett during the summer, the Celtics now look like a well-oiled green machine. Down one with 33.8 seconds left, Boston walked out of a timeout and ran its play well enough to spring Allen open for the go-ahead 3-pointer.

The Celtics won despite shooting 34.5 percent, giving them victories in San Antonio, Houston and Dallas in the span of four days. Not since Sacramento in 2001 has a team swept through the Texas triangle.

“We don’t want to see Texas anymore,” Rivers said. “It’s a heck of a state, no taxes, and I don’t want to see any of those three teams anymore.”

The Mavericks don’t have that luxury. They live in the West, and their latest loss dropped them to 0-7 against teams with winning records since Kidd arrived. That’s a legitimate reason to be concerned. In the West only teams with winning records make the playoffs.

“We’re close and we’re getting closer,” Johnson said. “We just have to stay positive.”

That hasn’t been easy to do. Not with Harris playing well in New Jersey, having already led the Nets to victories over Cleveland and Utah. On Tuesday, the Mavericks came out flat, watched the Lakers roll to a 25-point lead and were booed off their own court at halftime.

Cuban turned up the volume after the game when he marched into Johnson’s office. The two reportedly had a heated exchange that Johnson didn’t deny Thursday.

“In my three years since I’ve been here,” Johnson said, “we’ve had fiery pep talks on the phone, at my house, at his house, at lunch.”

Johnson is right. This is nothing new for him and Cuban. There’s a reason why the Spurs used to call Johnson the Ghetto Preacher and there’s a reason why Sen. Herb Kohl of the Milwaukee Bucks gave Cuban his own nickname this week: Meddling Owner. That combination sometimes makes for a combustible relationship.

But Johnson and Cuban also need to remember they’re in this together. They already had a good team with Harris, one that was 10-3 against those same winning teams the Mavericks have since gone 0-7 against.

Instead of staying the course, the Ghetto Preacher and Meddling Owner gambled on Kidd and pushed all their chips to the middle of the table.

One month later everyone’s still waiting to see what hand they were dealt.

[ducks]

This is what happens when you import an aging point guard to guide your team through the season’s treacherous stretch run. After the Los Angeles Lakers traded for Pau Gasol and the Phoenix Suns brought in Shaquille O’Neal, the Mavericks felt they needed to make their own blockbuster splash. The difference: Neither Gasol nor O’Neal is being asked to direct their respective team’s offense.

“Point guard is the toughest change,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. “That changes everything for you offensively. Even if it’s the same type of player, he still doesn’t know your stuff. I’ve always thought that position changes everything: timing, when certain players get the ball.”

[Roxsfan]

0-7, wow thats bad

[SpursDynasty]

Well, you had a Dallas team that was already mediocre with Devin Harris. So if you add a player whose name sounds good on paper but in reality hasn't accomplished anything in the NBA (Jason Kidd), what do you expect?

Dallas has already surpassed their loss total from last season while sitting 23 games below their win total from last season.

[Shank]

Well, you had a Dallas team that was already mediocre with Devin Harris. So if you add a player whose name sounds good on paper but in reality hasn't accomplished anything in the NBA (Jason Kidd), what do you expect?

Dallas has already surpassed their loss total from last season while sitting 23 games below their win total from last season.

You mean they weren't going to go 67-15 or better this year? Shock of all shocks.

[DaDakota]

Ehem,........just as I said.......big mistake on the trade....I believe Dallas just shut their own window.

DD

[baseline bum]

Love to say I told you so.

[Indazone]

Dallas needs to fire Avery. But I hope they keep him. I really do lol

[bdictjames]

I miss Ludden. He writes the best articles.

[Indazone]

But you know something..this article totally exposes the Mavs as the pretenders that they are. It'll be funny when the Mav's drop out of the playoff picture completely and allows both Golden State and the Denver Nuggets back in. LOL

[Findog]

But you know something..this article totally exposes the Mavs as the pretenders that they are. It'll be funny when the Mav's drop out of the playoff picture completely and allows both Golden State and the Denver Nuggets back in. LOL

And the Rockets are the epitome of credibility. I hope we play you guys in the first round. BTW, the Warriors don't need to "get back in," they're currently the 8 seed.

[JMarkJohns]

I've been one of the biggest critics of Kidd and his acquisition by Dallas, but not even I think this 0-fer streak vs. .500 or better teams will continue for the remainder of the season. I do think the Mavericks claim a playoff spot. However, I think they are first-round fodder regardless of their matchup. But maybe they'll get lucky and end up playing Houston, who, despite their 22-game win streak, is as equally likely for a first-round exit.

[SpursDynasty]

What's funny is, their big three are still intact....

The thing about big threes is if they're there, you usually assume the team is always going to be good no matter who's around them.

Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, and Jason Terry are still there. Yet they suck worse than they sucked before.

Oh well, Dallas was never a title contender to begin with, they just took a step down within the levels of sucking (since they already sucked before Kidd), so no big deal.

[Gino]

But you know something..this article totally exposes the Mavs as the pretenders that they are. It'll be funny when the Mav's drop out of the playoff picture completely and allows both Golden State and the Denver Nuggets back in. LOL

I wouldn't call them pretenders. They're still adapting to playing with Kidd, and most of that team has made it to the finals.

[Findog]

What's funny is, their big three are still intact....

The thing about big threes is if they're there, you usually assume the team is always going to be good no matter who's around them.

Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, and Jason Terry are still there. Yet they suck worse than they sucked before.

Oh well, Dallas was never a title contender to begin with, they just took a step down within the levels of sucking (since they already sucked before Kidd), so no big deal.


http://www.new-dream.de/image/wallpaper/musik/pink/pink-06.jpg

[Findog]

I wouldn't call them pretenders. They're still adapting to playing with Kidd, and most of that team has made it to the finals.

They're done for this year. Next year with a new coach and a training camp under their belts with Kidd, I expect a return to contention.

[Findog]

I wouldn't call them pretenders. They're still adapting to playing with Kidd, and most of that team has made it to the finals.

As an aside, it's funny to hear that from a Rockets fan. Oh well, guess it takes one to know one.

[Gino]

Man...how can you say that they're done when they're only a couple of games out of first and they just lost a victory to the Celtics that they probably should have won.

You can't win EVERY game. The Spurs aren't winning every game. The Suns aren't winning every game. The Lakers/Hornets/Jazz/Rockets don't win EVERY game.

I'll admit that you watch your team a hell of a lot more than I do, but I don't ever think "pretenders" when I watch the Mavs.

[GuerillaBlack]

They're done for this year. Next year with a new coach and a training camp under their belts with Kidd, I expect a return to contention.
You think Avery is gone after this year? Who is out there that you would want? JVG?

[Findog]

You think Avery is gone after this year? Who is out there that you would want? JVG?

I'm assuming the most likely candidates are Del Harris or Donnie to come down from the front office. There's Rick Carlisle and JVG. The problem with Cuban is that nobody has a neutral opinion of him. Does JVG like Cuban? A lot of people would be wary of going to work for him.

JVG is the guy who originally devised the defense that Miami and Golden State later used against Dirk. Nobody remembers that Nowitzki was far worse against the Rockets than the he was the Heat or Warriors because the Mavs eventually went on to win that series. I'm sure he has ideas for how to counter it or how the roster needs to be constructed in order to win.

[Findog]

Man...how can you say that they're done when they're only a couple of games out of first and they just lost a victory to the Celtics that they probably should have won.

You can't win EVERY game. The Spurs aren't winning every game. The Suns aren't winning every game. The Lakers/Hornets/Jazz/Rockets don't win EVERY game.

I'll admit that you watch your team a hell of a lot more than I do, but I don't ever think "pretenders" when I watch the Mavs.

It's good to hear that from an opposing fan, but 0-7 against good teams is a pretty damning indictment, isn't it? I was willing to defend them when they were 0-4 because Dirk was suspended for one of those games, another was Kidd's first game with the team, and against the Lakers and Spurs, they lost on their last possession. But something is just not right with this team, and I can't put my finger on it. When they put together a good defensive effort, they shoot 38% from the floor and lose 86-82. When they click on offense, they can't get stops and lose 112-108. And the stories about Avery are starting to come out, I think he's lost this team, and when the chemistry isn't right, if affects the execution out on the floor.

They showed a lot of mettle and heart coming back to almost beat the Lakers, but what were they doing down by 25 in the first place? This team if it could play up to its full potential could beat anybody, but they haven't yet shown an ability to do so this year.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The point guard position is the toughest position on the court for someone to jump in and play. I'd say a team needs a good 2 or 3 months to gel with a new point guard in charge.

I'm not ready to write off the Mavs yet.
















(Although I would have never made that trade.)

[Findog]

I'm not ready to write off the Mavs yet.


I am...for this season, anyway. I think they come back strong next year with a full training camp with Kidd under their belts. A new coach is probably also in order.




(Although I would have never made that trade.)

I was opposed to the concept of acquiring Kidd, until it became clear that we were exchanging Harris and Diop for Kidd, Malik Allen and Antoine Wright. Harris is the kind of player who looks like an All Star one game and a total scrub the next, and he's injury-prone as well. Kidd's monster contract comes off the books next year, so Dallas can either resign him to a cap-friendly contract if he's still playing well, or use the cap space to go get somebody else.

I'm not sure if I favor us making the playoffs or not since we're not winning a title. For a team that has already had the humiliation of blowing a 2-0 Finals lead and getting ousted in historic fashion by an 8 seed, missing the playoffs altogether, even in the stacked West, might be another psychological blow. On the other hand, the pick we sent to Jersey is lottery-protected, and I bet we can get Kevin Love or Ty Lawson with the 14th or 15th pick in the draft.

[JamStone]

I say they would still be in the same position had they not made the trade, so does it really matter? The trade sure looks like it was made just for the sake of making the trade. But, unlike the Gasol trade, this trade didn't really make them better. Thing is, it didn't really make them worse either. The trade was basically a wash, for at least this year. Now, Devin Harris will play for another 8 or so years while Kidd is done in a year or two, but I'm betting the feeling with Cuban and Donnie is that Harris wasn't going to put the Mavs over the top either. They lose a couple first round picks, which might end up being the worse part of the deal for the Mavs. But, it still wasn't a bad trade for Dallas. It just wasn't good either.

[DaDakota]

The Mavs keep letting quality PGs go....if Cuban wasn't so danged bi-polar he would have already had his championship...or two...by just signing Steve Nash.

DD

[Findog]

The Mavs keep letting quality PGs go....if Cuban wasn't so danged bi-polar he would have already had his championship...or two...by just signing Steve Nash.

DD

False.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

False.


exactly, Steve Nash's superb play over the last couple of years has a lot more to do with him being in a completely different system in Phoenix (that obviously suits him a lot more) as oppose to what Dallas was running.


It's not like Steve Nash woke up and decided to play like an MVP for the hell of it

[GuerillaBlack]

False.
True.

I think Nash would have developed along well with Dirk and the cast that Dallas has now.

[Gino]

exactly, Steve Nash's superb play over the last couple of years has a lot more to do with him being in a completely different system in Phoenix (that obviously suits him a lot more) as oppose to what Dallas was running.


It's not like Steve Nash woke up and decided to play like an MVP for the hell of it

Co-sign.

[DaDakota]

False.

Yeah, you guys keep on thinking that letting the best PG in the last 50 years go was a good idea.

Nash would have done it for you, no doubt.

DD

[Gino]

Yeah, you guys keep on thinking that letting the best PG in the last 50 years go was a good idea.

Nash would have done it for you, no doubt.

DD

For whatever the reason, I think it was proven that Nellie/Nash/Dirk wasn't going to be the best in the league. I can't imagine Nash playing in Avery's system. Nash is better with a big finisher like Amare, anyway and Dirk has proven that he doesn't need Nash.

Im glad it happened, two great teams to watch instead of one.

[Findog]

Yeah, you guys keep on thinking that letting the best PG in the last 50 years go was a good idea.

Nash would have done it for you, no doubt.

DD

So Nash is better than Isiah, Magic, Oscar Robertson and John Stockton? Really?

[Findog]

True.

I think Nash would have developed along well with Dirk and the cast that Dallas has now.

Who's guarding Tim Duncan on that team? The Mavs would've never beaten the Spurs with the same team they had.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Can people stop talking about us letting steve nash go? We were a couple of questionable calls away from winning a championship. http://youtube.com/watch?v=fydhtOSlfW0
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5y8nI1PPYOk

[Findog]

If the Mavs had resigned Steve Nash, they would not have been getting the player that won two MVP awards in Phoenix. Nash ran the Suns offense by getting Marion and Amare easy layups and dunks in transition. In Dallas, he would've continued to play pick and pop and the two-man game with Dirk and the other jumpshooters on the roster. Phoenix and D'Antoni's offense has been a much better fit for Nash's skills than Dallas ever was. It's the same lazy assumptions about how the Bulls made a huge mistake by getting rid of Tyson Chandler. Of course Chandler has more of an offensive impact and looks so much better when his point guard is Chris Paul instead of Kirk Hinrich. Look at how much better Dampier looks with Kidd as opposed to Jason Terry and Devin Harris. Nor have the Suns ultimately been able to overcome Nash's poor defense in the playoffs.

Erick Dampier was signed with Nash's salary slot. He is obscenely overpaid, but it was the right principle, getting size and defense in the middle. Would you rather have Steve Nash or Erick Dampier guarding Tim Duncan or Shaq? How do you explain the Mavs losing Nash and getting better?

This is also overlooking that the fact that if Nash had stayed, Nellie would have as well, and the Mavs would've continued to come up short against San Antonio in the playoffs every year. He quit on the team when his mancrush went to the desert to play for the Suns. It worked out for Nash and it worked out for the Mavericks. I have yet to hear anybody explain how a team with Dirk, Nash and Shawn Bradley at center would've gone on to win a title, since that team wouldn't be able to get stops in the playoffs.

[Findog]

exactly, Steve Nash's superb play over the last couple of years has a lot more to do with him being in a completely different system in Phoenix (that obviously suits him a lot more) as oppose to what Dallas was running.


It's not like Steve Nash woke up and decided to play like an MVP for the hell of it

Nash's MVP awards are kind of a joke. He had a better claim to the second one when he kept the Suns together during the Amare-less year, but the dude cannot keep his man in front of him. He certainly deserved to be in the conversation of MVP talk, but there were others more deserving.

[Findog]

What hurt the most about losing Nash is not that they left a championship or two on the floor by allowing him to walk, which they didn't, but that they had no control over his destination and he strengthened a fellow conference team into an elite rival.

[monosylab1k]

Yeah, you guys keep on thinking that letting the best PG in the last 50 years go was a good idea.

Nash would have done it for you, no doubt.

DD
Oh, more ignorant bullshit from the know-it-all Rocket Fan cunt.

This guy should be taken about as seriously as SpursDynasty, expecially after a post like this.

[Findog]

Nash isn't better than Mark Price in his prime. He's been on a team that scores 130 points a game against the Grizzlies and Hawks in the regular season and literally gets physically ousted out of the playoffs every year. Maybe Shaq solves that problem but Nash has become ridiculously overrated.

[monosylab1k]

Dallas has as good a shot as Phoenix come playoff time. And Dallas has no shot.

[GuerillaBlack]

Dallas has as good a shot as Phoenix come playoff time. And Dallas has no shot.
Another "know-it-all" Mav fan. You should be taken as seriously as SpursDynasty with this post.

[Findog]

Another "know-it-all" Mav fan. You should be taken as seriously as SpursDynasty with this post.


So Phoenix and its atrocious defense is going to beat LA, San Antonio, Utah, New Orleans, Boston or Detroit should they face them.

[GuerillaBlack]

So Phoenix and its atrocious defense is going to beat LA, San Antonio, Utah, New Orleans, Boston or Detroit should they face them.
I can see Phoenix beating New Orleans, but I'm on the line with Utah and LA.

[Findog]

I think the Suns can and will beat any team besides the ones I listed. Don't know how they won't run into one of them in the playoffs.

[JMarkJohns]

The teams I don't want to face as as follows, and probably in order...

Detroit
New Orleans
Los Angeles
Golden State

After those three teams, I think the Suns have a coinflip's chance or better vs. teams like Utah, San Antonio, Boston... and are very likely to beat team's like Houston, Dallas, Denver and Cleveland or Orlando, should either luck into a Finals appearance.

[JMarkJohns]

So Nash is better than Isiah, Magic, Oscar Robertson and John Stockton? Really?

I think he meant to say 15, but since they sound so close in one's head, typed 50...

As for whether or not the Mavericks with Nash/Dirk/Nellie had run their course, I think this is a gross over statement. In 2002-03 they were possibly one Dirk ankle injury away from getting to the Finals, where they likely would have defeated the Nets. Had Cuban not gone ape shit and acquired both Jamison and Walker that next offseason, completely screwing up the previous team's chemistry, then it's quite possible they'd have remained just as competative that 2003-04 season, instead of failing miserably, then having a fire sale, ousting Nash in favor of Dampier, Walker in favor of Terry and Jamison in favor of Stackhouse, Laettner and the #5 overall (Harris).

But, let's just say they still made the trades on the 2003 offseason, still failed, then still made every move in the 2004 offseason, save for signing Dampier over Nash.

Now, instead of needing Harris at #5, they can select a big man, likely Biedrins, though Jefferson went late lottery as well. They could still have traded a future 1st for that 2004 Denver 1st, but instead of taking Podkolzine, they could have selected Anderson Varejao.

They'd still likely have landed Diop, as they were the only team interested.

PG: Nash... Terry
SG: Stackhouse... Terry
SF: Howard... veteran filler
PF: Dirk... Varejao, Laettner
C: Biedrins... Diop

Sure, Nash's defense would have still been suspect, but with Diop, Biedrins and Varejao, you have three active and athletic big men to roam the middle and contest shots. They'd have been a very good rebounding team and, with the right veteran role players (like a Buckner or Griffin), they'd have been a very tough out as their shooting would be better than currently, with not much else actually being worse.

Maybe they don't win a Title. Maybe they don't even make the Finals. But point is we just don't know what twists and turns would have been taken had they resigned Nash, therefore we can't say for certain that it wouldn't have worked.

[Findog]

I think he meant to say 15, but since they sound so close in one's head, typed 50...

So Nash is better than Gary Payton, Mark Price, Baron Davis, Chris Paul, Deron Williams and John Stockton?




As for whether or not the Mavericks with Nash/Dirk/Nellie had run their course, I think this is a gross over statement. In 2002-03 they were possibly one Dirk ankle injury away from getting to the Finals, where they likely would have defeated the Nets.

They were never going to beat the Spurs with that nucleus.


Had Cuban not gone ape shit and acquired both Jamison and Walker that next offseason,

Cuban doesn't initiate player personnel decisions. And what was "apeshit" about that? They bought low and sold high on Van Exel, he never again did anything in this league, and Walker had two seasons left on his deal. That's why they got him - his expiring contract was valuable and they wanted to get out from under the horrendous contract they had given the Raefist.



completely screwing up the previous team's chemistry,

The only chemistry that was screwed up was between Cuban and Nellie, over a dispute on Dirk playing in the 03 Conference Finals.




Now, instead of needing Harris at #5,

Harris and Nash were both Mavericks for two weeks. Harris was specifically acquired to be Nash's understudy and spell him for 15 minutes a game. They wanted to keep Nash, but they were not going to pay big, big bucks for somebody who had broken down in the playoffs every year and who they only planned to play 30 minutes a game. There's no taking Biedrins over Harris because that was never the plan.






PG: Nash... Terry

There were no plans to acquire Terry until Nash left and they needed a veteran guard, since they didn't want to immediately turn the reigns over to Harris as a rookie.



SG: Stackhouse... Terry

Michael Finley and his pre-amnesty contract weren't going anywhere.



SF: Howard... veteran filler
PF: Dirk... Varejao, Laettner
C: Biedrins... Diop

Huh?



Sure, Nash's defense would have still been suspect,

Which is a big reason why Phoenix goes home every year



but with Diop, Biedrins and Varejao, you have three active and athletic big men to roam the middle and contest shots.

We'd have only one of those guys, and he never played more than 15 minutes a game because of his stamina and durability. He never played in Cleveland, and he weighed about 80 pounds more in Cleveland than he did in Dallas. He could never play big minutes consistently, and the other two were never going to be Mavericks.



Maybe they don't win a Title.

No, they wouldn't have.


Maybe they don't even make the Finals.

No, they wouldn't have.


But point is we just don't know what twists and turns would have been taken had they resigned Nash,

So why are we speculating about implausibilities here?


therefore we can't say for certain that it wouldn't have worked.

We can say with relative certainty, at least those of us familiar with the roster at the time, what was going on in the front office, what kind of team we already had here in Dallas, how Nash played with the personnel he was surrounded with here as opposed to Phoenix, that Dallas DID NOT leave a title on the floor by letting him walk to Phoenix. Again, how does a lineup of Dirk, Nash, Finley and Shawn Bradley stop anybody? We'd already seen that play out. What hurt the worst about it was that he signed with a fellow West team and strengthened them into a contender, as opposed to signing with an Eastern team.

[Indazone]

Avery Johnson for coach of the year!!

Kidd for MVP!! Whoo hooo NBA "I'm Lovin it"

[Findog]

Avery Johnson for coach of the year!!

Kidd for MVP!! Whoo hooo NBA "I'm Lovin it"

lol, Houston Rockets.

[JMarkJohns]

Fin... I'll agree it was a longshot. In the long run, I actually liked their team pre-Harris trade. It had already defeated that Spurs nucleus and had made the Finals, where they really should have won. In fact, I liked their team very much. Diop and Harris made them much better defensively. But we've already gone over this.

I agree that had they kept Nash, it would have been a longshot, but had they, there were many options to take advantage of and that roster I gave isn't such a stretch since most of the trades happened anyways and since Biedrins is playing very well under Nellie now.

I guess I just take issue to speaking in absolutes where nothing is certain since said scenerios never played themselves out. I get on Suns fans for claiming a Title is guaranteed, or was guaranteed had only... I think we both agree that their first post-Nash plan was a very good one, and one that should have, and still could have worked had they only let it. Maybe your not yet of the same opinion regarding Kidd, and I'm probably a little too caught up on "what ifs" to see why you state in absolutes, but Overall I think we're prtty close on both the Suns and Mavs.

And, in theory the trades for Walker and Jamison were good. Maybe had they done one or the other, things would have worked out better. But I watched plenty of that seasons Mavs - though not as much as you, I'm guessing - and do feel they had way too many players who need the ball in their hands to be effective. That's why they bombed... that, and the absolutely zero defense. On paper, selling high on Van Exel and getting Jamison was good. On paper, getting rid of LaFrentz's contract for a productive player with a much shorter contract was good. But each together and with that team just failed. Whether it was Cuban or Nellie or whomever your GM is, that doesn't matter... it was just too many similar players for one team to succeed with. Whether or not is was an overreaction to losing, I may have overstated. I don't know. Cuban is good for a big trade every year or two.

[Findog]

Fin... I'll agree it was a longshot. In the long run, I actually liked their team pre-Harris trade. It had already defeated that Spurs nucleus and had made the Finals, where they really should have won. In fact, I liked their team very much. Diop and Harris made them much better defensively. But we've already gone over this.

I liked that team too, and I was opposed in principle to trading Harris for Kidd, because I felt the team's nucleus had earned the right to play one more time for a title. I wanted to be wrong about the trade if it meant my team succeeded. But Kidd doesn't appear to be the right point guard for a team that doesn't like to run, isn't that athletic, and relies heavily on iso sets in half court play. But Dirk was apparently bigtime in favor of this, so that's hard to argue against. And there was a feeling among club insiders that the current team had gone as far as it could and a change needed to be made. Harris' inconsistency and fragility when it comes to injuries did not work in his favor in terms of staying.

They can go in one of two directions: They can deal Kidd in the offseason since his expiring contract would be attractive to a number of teams. Or they can try to build a team around him and Dirk that complements their talents. Kidd is of course more effective in that Princeton offense that New Jersey runs. The half-court sets Dallas uses and the plodding players they have don't complement him well.

[TampaDude]

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