The Admiral vs. Mr. Fundamental

[Brutalis]

Playing ball my whole life I know a 1 on 1 game goes to 11, with a 7-0 skunk, baskets are 1 point, three's are 2 points.
(for those that don't play ball a skunk means getting to 7 before the other player even scores, meaning skunk, game over.)

I know this is a difficult choice on who would win, except for duncan228 of course. But under those standard 1 on 1 rules, who wins?

I vote David. In his prime he was better defensively, shot blocking, and rebounding. And I think in his prime against Tim in his, defense would win.

11-8 Robinson.

[san antonio spurs]

Duncan in his prime had insane footwork on the block. I doubt The Admiral would ever get the ball back.
I say skunk :lol

[bdictjames]

David in his prime?

David wins, 11-5 IMO.

[duncan228]

Duncan in his prime had insane footwork on the block.

Duncan takes Robinson with both in their primes.

Surprised? :lmao

[Zarko]

One would only have to reference the 1995 playoffs when Hakeem school David in his MVP year. Tim would have the same effect with his footwork and solid fundamentals.

Despite all of his talents, David never had a go to offensive move. Tim would win probably 11-6, probably worse if make it take was in action.

[Brutalis]

David in his prime?

David wins, 11-5 IMO.
But you voted Duncan? :lol

[Brutalis]

One would only have to reference the 1995 playoffs when Hakeem school David in his MVP year. Tim would have the same effect with his footwork and solid fundamentals.

Despite all of his talents, David never had a go to offensive move. Tim would win probably 11-6, probably worse if make it take was in action.
Well, whoever scores first gets to call make it take it or switcharoo. But we're pretending it's switcharoo.

[bdictjames]

But you voted Duncan? :lol
Havent voted yet. :lol

[Brutalis]

Havent voted yet. :lol
Oh. Well I guess I'm the only DRob believer haha.

I bet half of the people that vote wasn't around for Dave's prime either. :rolleyes

[urunobili]

DRob made me a Spur... sorry Tim

[nkdlunch]

is this a joke. Duncan would obliterate Robinson.

[Brutalis]

is this a joke. Duncan would obliterate Robinson.
Puhhhleeeezeee

[bdictjames]

Oh. Well I guess I'm the only DRob believer haha.

I bet half of the people that vote wasn't around for Dave's prime either. :rolleyes
I wasn't too, but saw lot of Dave's videos, and that guy is an athletic freak. And Tim gets flustered by tall, long-armed, athletic, black guys haha. And who's footwork is better: Timmy's or Hakeem's?

There. voted for it.

[Brutalis]

I wasn't too, but saw lot of Dave's videos, and that guy is an athletic freak. And Tim gets flustered by tall, long-armed, athletic, black guys haha. And who's footwork is better: Timmy's or Hakeem's?

There. voted for it.
Easy, Hakeem. Can't be biased about that. Hakeem was a footwork god.

[dbreiden83080]

One on one you could go either way, i'll take Tim because of his polished low post game but they both would be getting games off eachother.

There really is no argument who is the better all time player though.

[TDfan2007]

I wasn't too, but saw lot of Dave's videos, and that guy is an athletic freak. And Tim gets flustered by tall, long-armed, athletic, black guys haha. And who's footwork is better: Timmy's or Hakeem's?

There. voted for it.

Do you guys remember what DRob said after training camp '97? Tim killed him and David realized that TIm was better offensively than he ever was (I'm more or less quoting him here).

Tim is too good and people underestimate how versatile he really is. He holds back a lot of his offensive game and for the good of the team he sticks to the post.

I say Tim wins, the score would be pretty close if they're going winners out, but if it's make it take it Tim will destroy DRob.

[duncan228]

There really is no argument who is the better all time player though.

:)

[ManuTastic]

There's a huge difference between a real game, where a low-post player can set up on the block and then get fed the ball, and a 1-on-1 game, where you have to get there yourself from the top of the key. It wouldn't be easy, and I loves me some Timmah, but I think Five-Oh has the edge in this fantasy scenario: he was longer, quicker, and a bit stronger, with insane hops. DRob could take more chances on D and recover more quickly, and get more rebounds with his length and quickness. And don't forget the 71-pt. game.
Fun to imagine, but I'm just glad they were both on our side.

Of course, in the context of real NBA ball games, Timmy is the better offensive player, and DRob said so himself more than once.

[ABE LINCOLN]

David Robinson (God rest his soul) was probably a better 1-on-1 player, but timmy won championships!

[BlackSwordsMan]

Ginobili > both

[whottt]

David.


Duncan couldn't have guarded David. David was faster than Dirk and Duncan can't guard Dirk. And David could have defended Duncan and lot better than Duncan could have defended him...


As for Hakeem, he didn't just do that to David, he did it to everyone, and he'd have done it to Duncan if Duncan had been around.


Plus...Hakeem didn't score as many points on David as Amare scored on Tim...


Watching Duncan guard Amare is a pretty good indicator of what it would have been like for Duncan to guard David...

Except for the fact that David is bigger, stronger, can jump higher, and dunk better than Amare.

Plus he's about one million times the defender Amare is.




That David didn't have go to offensive move is ludicrous, the man won a scoring title and dropped 71 points in a game. The only people that say he couldn't score are people that never saw him play. He could score. In fact he was one of the best scoring bigmen in NBA history.

He scored more points at a higher PCT than Duncan did through the first 7 years of his career.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

A young DRob would own a young Timmy in 1-on-1. No question.

[dbreiden83080]

Duncan couldn't have guarded David. David was faster than Dirk and Duncan can't guard Dirk. And David could have defended Duncan and lot better than Duncan could have defended him...


Like i said they would both do well off eachother but David is on record as saying that when Tim came up he could not guard him practically at all.

[whottt]

Like i said they would both do well off eachother but David is on record as saying that when Tim came up he could not guard him practically at all.


And Pop's on record as saying the first time David and Tim matched up, he regretted the fact that he hadn't drafted Keith Van Horne.



I don't know how anyone think Duncan is going to score on David like David is going to score on him...


Exactly how do guys propose Duncan defend a guy that has 3 inches of height on him, more reach, is faster, is stronger, and can jump higher?


Trip him?


David will dunk on Duncan all day long...Duncan better hope that bank is working as good as David's dunk is and it won't be.





I know I know...but Duncan is more talented than David...he has a much better, Tony(finals MVP) Parker and Manu(Manu!) Ginobili than David had on his best day.

[whottt]

Like i said they would both do well off eachother but David is on record as saying that when Tim came up he could not guard him practically at all.


David says a lot of things...which is why he was perennially on the All Interview team, he is humble and classy and self depreciative...


But he was also one of the most insane athletic freaks to ever step foot on an NBA court.


And his college entrance exam qualified him for Mensa...



Duncan does one thing better than David...and that's want to win championships. But in a game of one on one, there is nothing Duncan will be able to do to stop David.

[dbreiden83080]

And Pop's on record as saying the first time David and Tim matched up, he regretted the fact that he hadn't drafted Keith Van Horne.



I don't know how anyone think Duncan is going to score on David like David is going to score on him...


Exactly how do guys propose Duncan defend a guy that has 3 inches of height on him, more reach, is faster, is stronger, and can jump higher?


Trip him?


David will dunk on Duncan all day long...Duncan better hope that bank is working as good as David's dunk is and it won't be.





I know I know...but Duncan is more talented than David...he has a much better, Tony(finals MVP) Parker and Manu(Manu!) Ginobili than David had on his best day.


David dunks on one of best defenders ever all day long, get off David's nutsack will you. It just kills you that Tim is going down as the better player in history. I say it is close one on one and you say it is a blowout for David, no way in hell. David said flat out "He could not defend Tim" Tim could not have great success against him either that is why i said it was close.

[baseline bum]

I'm going to say David would win 7 out of 10 times or so. David's face-up game was better than Tim's, and he's got quicker hands. In 5 on 5 it's Tim in a no-brainer though.

[whottt]

How is Duncan going to stop it...no one else could.

S36g_AZX84M&feature=related

[baseline bum]

I love that alley-oop from AJ to David at about the 2:50 mark. :tu

[manufor3]

duncan. duncan proved he can win without d-rob, not vise-versa.

[whottt]

David dunks on one of best defenders ever all day long, get off David's nutsack will you.


Best defenders ever? You think Duncan was a better defender than Robinson?

You're wrong again.

And why don't you get off Duncan's nutsac fuckface?

It's okay for you to defend Duncan completely out of your ass but not okay for me to defend Robinson with pretty accurate comparisons to modern players?

Getting to see both of them?

Go fuck yourself.

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Period.




It just kills you that Tim is going down as the better player in history.

Duncan is going down as a better player because he won 4 championships...

It kills me that fucking bandwaggoning Spurs fans that barely saw David Robinson play shit all over him out of their ignorance.





I say it is close one on one and you say it is a blowout for David, no way in hell. David said flat out "He could not defend Tim" Tim could not have great success against him either that is why i said it was close.


Yeah well....Duncan's a great block scorer...but he'll still miss more bank shots than the Admiral will dunks.


And you want to bring up Hakeem...I am going to bring up Amare...Amare dropped 37PPG on Duncan...

No one remembers because Duncan's team won...

[whottt]

duncan. duncan proved he can win without d-rob, not vise-versa.


So you are saying Vinny Del Negro is a better shooting guard than Manu Ginobili?

[whottt]

And BTW, drbieden...that David Robinson that defended Duncan was a guy who had been defacto crippled by a hernia and back injuries...and was still a better defender than Duncan was. David Robinson was 32 years old when Duncan joined the Spurs. That's pretty old for a guy who's greatest attribute was his athleticism.

[dbreiden83080]

Best defenders ever? You think Duncan was a better defender than Robinson?

Man can't read or fucking write. I said he is one of the best defenders ever, i did not say he was better than David, lets see what else did you screw up???



"Go fuck yourself.

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Period."

Go fuck myself, now there is a compelling argument boy we are really getting somewhere now aren't we????





"Duncan is going down as a better player because he won 4 championships...

It kills me that fucking bandwaggoning Spurs fans that barely saw David Robinson play shit all over him out of their ignorance."

I saw Robinson play basically his whole career and he was a great player but he never even got his team to a finals in an era in the west that one team was not dominant. It was a new team getting in the finals every year. When did David's Spurs ever have to go up against MJ's Bulls like Ewings knicks and Millers pacers did year after year after year. For all his individual skill he did not get the most out of his teams, he needed TD to win those rings, if he had not showed up D-Rob would be in the same boat all time as Ewing.









"And you want to bring up Hakeem...I am going to bring up Amare...Amare dropped 37PPG on Duncan..."

Back to that reading problem of your's, i never said a word about Hakeem, have a nice day hooked on phonics right down the road.

[dbreiden83080]

And BTW, drbieden.

That is Dbreiden, MR. Robinson. :rolleyes

[whottt]

David dunks on one of best defenders ever all day long,


This is David dunking all over a two time DPOY:


Charlotte (111) @ San Antonio (124) 01/16/93


Charlotte (111)

POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF TP
Johnson,Larry F 42 6-16 5- 8 1- 3 1-14 4 1 0 3 2 18
Newman,Johnny F 14 1- 1 5- 6 0- 0 1- 1 0 0 0 0 4 7
Mourning,Alonzo C 32 9-20 6-10 0- 0 2- 5 0 0 4 2 5 24
Bogues,Muggsy G 34 3- 7 5- 6 0- 0 1- 6 7 0 0 3 2 11
Gill,Kendall G 40 6-16 4- 6 0- 0 1- 4 2 4 0 1 1 16
Gattison,Kenny 15 0- 1 1- 2 0- 0 0- 2 2 0 1 0 5 1
Wingate,David 21 3- 6 1- 2 0- 1 3- 3 0 2 1 1 0 7
Curry,Dell 26 7-12 0- 0 1- 1 0- 1 2 1 0 1 1 15
Bennett,Tony 14 4- 6 2- 3 2- 3 0- 0 2 1 0 0 2 12
Hammonds,Tom 2 0- 0 0- 0 0- 0 0- 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
TOTALS 240 39-85 29-43 4- 8 9-38 19 9 6 11 22 111

FG %: .459 FT %: .674 Three %: .500 Team Rebs: 17 Team TOs: 0


San Antonio (124)

POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF TP
Ellis,Dale F 38 9-17 0- 0 3- 6 2- 6 4 0 0 1 2 21
Carr,Antoine F 15 5- 6 2- 3 0- 0 0- 2 2 0 3 0 6 12
Robinson,David C 40 20-28 11-15 1- 2 3-14 3 0 7 2 3 52
Johnson,Avery G 32 2- 4 0- 0 0- 0 0- 0 12 1 0 1 4 4
Del Negro,Vinny G 36 6-14 2- 2 0- 1 2- 7 3 1 0 3 5 14
Reid,J.R. 24 0- 6 4- 4 0- 0 1-10 0 0 0 0 4 4
Daniels,Lloyd 17 1- 6 0- 0 1- 3 0- 0 5 0 0 1 2 3
Smith,Larry 14 1- 1 0- 0 0- 0 2- 3 1 0 0 0 3 2
Wood,David 11 1- 2 1- 2 0- 0 0- 1 1 0 1 2 2 3
Mack,Sam 13 3- 8 3- 4 0- 2 2- 4 0 0 0 1 1 9
TOTALS 240 48-92 23-30 5-14 12-47 31 2 11 11 32 124

FG %: .522 FT %: .767 Three %: .357 Team Rebs: 9 Team TOs: 1

Charlotte 21 28 23 39 -- 111
San Antonio 30 31 30 33 -- 124

Officials: JIM CAPERS, TOMMY NUNEZ, DAN CRAWFORD
Attendance: 16057 Time of Game: 2:08



I know it's surprising for you to see an offensive stiff with no move like David Robinson scoring 52 points in a game...but he did it on a few occasions, believe it or not...


For a guy that couldn't score...David sure could score...like as in he won a scoring title...I know...it was luck.


Seriously...you guys should apply for a job with ESPN...you'll fit right in.

[Texas_Ranger]

TD

[whottt]

Man can't read or fucking write. I said he is one of the best defenders ever, i did not say he was better than David, lets see what else did you screw up???



"Go fuck yourself.

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Period."

Go fuck myself, now there is a compelling argument boy we are really getting somewhere now aren't we????

It's as compelling as your argument that I should get off Robinson's nutsac.






"Duncan is going down as a better player because he won 4 championships...

It kills me that fucking bandwaggoning Spurs fans that barely saw David Robinson play shit all over him out of their ignorance."

I saw Robinson play basically his whole career and he was a great player but he never even got his team to a finals in an era in the west that one team was not dominant. It was a new team getting in the finals every year. When did David's Spurs ever have to go up against MJ's Bulls like Ewings knicks and Millers pacers did year after year after year. For all his individual skill he did not get the most out of his teams, he needed TD to win those rings, if he had not showed up D-Rob would be in the same boat all time as Ewing.

Um...David's Spurs fucking owned the Jordan Bulls...but I shouldn't have to tell that to a guy who was..."watching him play for his entire career."



Duncan had new teams every couple of years? So did David...he also had a new coach just about every year.



And I'm sorry...but the Spurs were not as well run then as they are now, David Robinson was not surrounded by the talent Duncan has been for his entire career.





IF all we need is Duncan, then how come we don't win it every year?


You don't think Mario Elie's daggers mattered?
You don't think Robert Horry's game 5 mattered?


Well David Robinson didn't have Mario Elie or Robert Horry...Hakeem did.








[B]"And you want to bring up Hakeem...I am going to bring up Amare...Amare dropped 37PPG on Duncan..."

Back to that reading problem of your's, i never said a word about Hakeem, have a nice day hooked on phonics right down the road.


My bad...usually those talking out of their ass bring that up right off the bat...I give you props for your uniqueness among ass talkers.

[polandprzem]

When the cnversation turn into Admiral talk,I always hear that Dave was a pussy and no discussion you can lead from that statment.

This thing pissing me off as much as ppl (nba fans) wanting to hurt Bowen, wish him injury.


Back to the oryginal topic

whottt - it is one on one alone without all the team you like to add (like Amare comparison). How would Dave dunk on Tim? You talking about being posterized all the time?

It would be great matchup. Dave had great fade away, Tim got hooks in the arsenal. Dave can hit a J from every spot in the mid range, Tim got both bank angles and in front of a basket jumper nad many more which I won't bring up here cause I'm tired and the english launguage is so difficult right now it's insaine. I can't even write one correct sentence.
Ohh I will be tommorow in the discussion maybe.

good nighty spurs frickos

[J.T.]

Fuck them both, I take Shaq in his prime.

[whottt]

whottt - it is one on one alone without all the team you like to add (like Amare comparison). How would Dave dunk on Tim? You talking about being posterized all the time?




Duncan had more drive to win titles, he trusts his teamates more(an d they are more worthy of that trust) and utilizes them better...he's got more poise.

He also put more pressure on the Spurs to win championships than David did...

But people act like David Robinson couldn't win a game in his career....we won. we almost won a couple of championships, we came very close to winning a couple of championships...but those teams were not as good...and it isn't because Duncan is so much better than Robinson. It's because Duncan's teams are better coached and better constructed than David Robinsons.



One on one...I'm sorry, but there is no way Duncan could guard David Robinson...

Yes, David would literally dunk on him all day long.


Like I said...you watched Duncan guard Dirk and Amare? David was faster than they were...he was bigger, he was taller, he was stronger, he could jump higher.


Duncan wins a couple on him because he won't quit playing until he beats David, he never gives up and the Admiral decides he wants to go surf the internet or play the Sax...plus he wants Timmy to feel good about himself and god wouldn't want David to keep kicking poor Timmy's ass mercilessly.



That's exactly how it would go down.

[dbreiden83080]

Um...David's Spurs fucking owned the Jordan Bulls...but I shouldn't have to tell that to a guy who was..."watching him play for his entire career."



LOL, yeah that is right they owned them in the finals all those years right, oops no that never happened. They were too busy getting spanked down by worldbeaters like Malone and the Jazz, Hakeem and the Rockets, and Barkley and the Suns. Regular season success against the Bulls, GEEZ talk about a bullshit argument. So i guess if they got by the inferior teams they would have owned the best in the finals right pal??? :rolleyes :drunk


BTW i just checked, the Cavs owned us last year during the season. :drunk

[bigfundamental21]

It would be close, but Timmy would win. He is too competitive not to win.

[whottt]

LOL, yeah that is right they owned them in the finals all those years right, oops no that never happened. They were too busy getting spanked down by worldbeaters like Malone and the Jazz,


Tim Duncan never beat those Jazz...and the Jordan Bulls his kicked his ass.


Duncan was also dealt the worse asskicking in WCF playoff history.


And Karl Malone kicked his ass in the 2004 WCF as well.

Bring up Karl Malone...Duncan never beat him either. And he hasn't beaten Shaq since David retired. Which is understandable...since David was the guy guarding Shaq.

I know...Pop was stupid for not seeing Duncan was the superior defender over Robinson.





Hakeem and the Rockets, and Barkley and the Suns. Regular season success against the Bulls, GEEZ talk about a bullshit argument. So i guess if they got by the inferior teams they would have owned the best in the finals right pal??? :rolleyes :drunk


So essentially what you are saying is that you can't tell the difference between Tony Parker and Avery Johnson, and Manu Ginobili and Vinny Del Negro.

Or between Pop and Jerry Tarkanian?


Must suck to be that fucking stupid...maybe when Pop, Tony and Manu are in the HOF, your head will magically remove itself from your butt.





BTW i just checked, the Cavs owned us last year during the season. :drunk

Duncan didn't have anything to do with that...did you see him hoisting the finals MVP?


Your argument...not mine.

[dbreiden83080]

Duncan was also dealt the worse asskicking in WCF playoff history.


An ass kicking by a title tested Laker team that was legitmately great as opposed to the butt kicking the Spurs got by West teams not good enough to win it all when it was almost always a new team in the finals every year in D-Rob's day.

BTW Duncan bounced back in 2003 with D-Rob all but done, Manu all over the place, Tony young, raw, good one minute lousy the next, to dominate the playoffs beat the Championship Lakers, and win it all. That was all Timmy all the time big guy.

[Sec24Row7]

David.


Duncan couldn't have guarded David. David was faster than Dirk and Duncan can't guard Dirk. And David could have defended Duncan and lot better than Duncan could have defended him...


As for Hakeem, he didn't just do that to David, he did it to everyone, and he'd have done it to Duncan if Duncan had been around.


Plus...Hakeem didn't score as many points on David as Amare scored on Tim...


Watching Duncan guard Amare is a pretty good indicator of what it would have been like for Duncan to guard David...
Except for the fact that David is bigger, stronger, can jump higher, and dunk better than Amare.

Plus he's about one million times the defender Amare is.




That David didn't have go to offensive move is ludicrous, the man won a scoring title and dropped 71 points in a game. The only people that say he couldn't score are people that never saw him play. He could score. In fact he was one of the best scoring bigmen in NBA history.

He scored more points at a higher PCT than Duncan did through the first 7 years of his career.


Because Amare gets Soooo many points on Timmy iso on the block... please... Amare gets his points from kicks and cuts...

I have no idea who would win that matchup to start...but the more they played 1v1... the more Tim would win... I can almost assure you of that.

[whottt]

Because Amare gets Soooo many points on Timmy iso on the block... please... Amare gets his points from kicks and cuts...

What Amare does because of Steve Nash? David could do with no one. In fact he did...in his best season. In fact you could say he played both the Steve Nash and the Amare' roles in his best season.






I have no idea who would win that matchup to start...but the more they played 1v1... the more Tim would win... I can almost assure you of that.

I can't...I think if both wanted to win David would win about 95% of the time. The more Duncan beat Robinson...the more motivated David would be.

[timvp]

1-on-1? David probably wins it. He was bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic. Plus, his jumper was better and he'd be more of a threat to block a shot. Tim would have to rely on post moves to score, while David could just drive around Tim.

As for when they're primes were, David's was obviously at some point in '94 or '95. TD is harder to figure out. His post moves were best early in his career but his defense didn't become consistently good until later. I'd guess you'd have to say '03 but a lot of the aspects of his game are actually better today (passing, weakside defense, leadership).

The only reason David isn't considered a top ten player of all-time is just bad luck. First of all, he had horrible teammates during his prime. Everyone talks about KG having bad teammates but David's were consistently much worse. On top of that, David played in probably the most physical and slow paced era in the history of the NBA. If you move his career ten years sooner or ten years later and he'd be unguardable. David in his prime today with the no handchecking rules, charge circle and faster paced games would be unstoppable. He could average 32-34 points if he played today.

David gets bashed for not winning before 1999 but Duncan too would have had zero rings playing on all those teams David was on. The supporting cast and coaches on those teams were just not good enough. Put Tim on the 1995 team and that team probably has 10 less regular season wins and gets bounced in the second round.

The thing about TD is he's built for playoff basketball. Everything about his game fits in perfect for when the playoffs begin. TD can orchestrate an offense on the low block. He's competitive, consistent and never backs down. He's also great at adjusting during games and during series. If you want to build a prototype for a bigman that can excel in playoff basketball, the result would end up playing a lot like TD.

David was just more of an athletic freak of nature who happened to be a great basketball player. His game wasn't especially built for the playoffs but it wasn't like his level of play dipped in the playoffs. It was just the same domination he showed during the regular season. Give David two possible Hall of Famers at the guard positions and he too could have won championships.

History will show the Tim was a lot better than David but that just isn't true. David was unlucky and Tim was lucky ... and that was the biggest difference in their careers.

[whottt]

An ass kicking by a title tested Laker team that was legitmately great as opposed to the butt kicking the Spurs got by West teams not good enough to win it all when it was almost always a new team in the finals every year in D-Rob's day.

You mean like the Houston Rockets? You know..the defending champions...









BTW Duncan bounced back in 2003 with D-Rob all but done, Manu all over the place, Tony young, raw, good one minute lousy the next, to dominate the playoffs beat the Championship Lakers, and win it all. That was all Timmy all the time big guy.

Then how come they didn't beat them the next season?

I mean hey...they had Duncan, and Manu, and Parker...


And the Lakers added that pussy Karl Malone that could even beat a soft choker like David Robinson.



Your double standard is pathetic...as is your argument, and your concept of what wins a championship.


Just say it...Duncan is better because he has more championships, because that is what is you think...that is the depth of your insight into the game of basketball.

[whottt]

Just say it...Duncan is better because he has more championships, because that is what is you think...that is the depth of your insight into the game of basketball.

Nailed it...


The people that use the rings argument are consumed with rings...which means they probably weren't much of Spur fan prior to the Spurs winning one. Which also explains their lack of knowledge about why the earlier Spurs didn't win...


You are what you eat.......

[TheTruth]

duncan. duncan proved he can win without d-rob, not vise-versa.
Were you even a Spurs fan during David's prime? Dave never had anyone EVEN CLOSE to Manu or Tony around him. Jesus, some of these fans are fucking nuts.

[dbreiden83080]

Nailed it...


The people that use the rings argument are consumed with rings...which means they probably weren't much of Spur fan prior to the Spurs winning one. Which also explains their lack of knowledge about why the earlier Spurs didn't win...


You are what you eat.......

WTF, you are quoting yourself and patting yourself on the back, :rolleyes

Not having a very good saturday are we???? :drunk

[Nikos]

If a prime Admiral had Parker and Ginobili at their current abilities, they would be a superior regular season team for sure. Maybe a better playoff team because David wouldn't have all the pressure on him to score, and he would be a better defender than Duncan.

It seems Duncan has slipped a little bit the past 2-3 seasons, he has allowed Tony and Manu to become options 1B and 1C. Actually Ginobili and Parker probably see the ball a tad more than Duncan in terms of total possessions.

Duncan was awesome from 2002-2004 in regular season terms -- as good as Olajuwon and almost as good as Prime Drob.

But Prime Drob was on a Shaq 2000 /Jordan type of level of dominance.

I guess I would take prime Drob. But Duncan has had more luck and success in the playoffs, thats for sure. Hard to say if Duncan would matchup with Hakeem -- he certainly is a similar caliber player in terms of building a 50+ team around him.

[whottt]

WTF, you are quoting yourself and patting yourself on the back, :rolleyes

Not having a very good saturday are we???? :drunk


You kidding? I've been waiting all year for a good Drob/Hakeem or Drob/Duncan argument...


Unlike yourself...most everyone else knows better than to get me started on it :smokin

They've seen it all before...

[gospursgojas]

Who gets the ball first?

[whottt]

It seems Duncan has slipped a little bit the past 2-3 seasons, he has allowed Tony and Manu to become options 1B and 1C. Actually Ginobili and Parker probably see the ball a tad more than Duncan in terms of total possessions.



Duncan is doing the same thing for them that David Robinson did for him...he's stepping back and letting his younger teamates have their day in the Sun.

I hope Spur fans pay attention to that.



Duncan just wanted to win a championship more than David...he wanted it for different reasons, he wanted it in a different way, he approached getting it in a different way.


David wanted to win one...but it was because he felt it was his duty, thus his efforts were basically limited to what he did on the court with his talent...and what he did on the court was simply amazing. But once he was off the court, it was out of his mind. It wasn't a passion for him like it was with Duncan.

He carried worse teams than Duncan has ever had to carry...and he carried them well all things considered. He carried them better than just about any player in NBA history.



But if they lost? David would say, well, we did our best guys. Make sure you say your prayers and tell your mom's that you love them. IT doesn't define you.


Duncan's like: I am in Orlando if you don't put a championship team around me. I didn't come here to lose.


And the first title before Duncan started flexing his muscle wasn't luck either...it would have been a huge didappointment if the Duncan Robinson pairing hadn't lead to an NBA championship...it should have lead to more IMO.




But this argument is about one on one...and David's just too much of a physical freak, he always was. No one could guard him one on one. He would dunk on them. On all of them. Mercilessly.

[alamo50]

Seems like the younger Spurs fans have the upper hand up till now.

;)

[whottt]

In closing I'll just say...


Only two players in NBA history have won a scoring title and a DPOY award...David Robinson and Michael Jordan...Duncan hasn't done either.


Only one Center has scored more points in a game than David Robinson...and that's Wilt Chamberlain.

At the time of his back injury he was the all time leader in blocks per game.

That is versatility unmatched by any other bigman. By any other...since blocks were recorded.


You are asking a lot of Duncan...I don't doubt Duncan will hunger to win more...but that isn't going to make him faster, or a better jumper, or bigger, or longer, or stronger...


Duncan better hope that bank shot is working...


IF it makes you guys feel any better...DRob might be the last guy I'd ever pick as a GM or coach...and Duncan would be among the first(out of bigmen, I take him after I take Horry)

[bobbyjoe]

One would only have to reference the 1995 playoffs when Hakeem school David in his MVP year. Tim would have the same effect with his footwork and solid fundamentals.

Despite all of his talents, David never had a go to offensive move. Tim would win probably 11-6, probably worse if make it take was in action.

Except that Duncan struggles against bigs with length and athleticism. Just watch when he's facing a Rasheed Wallace, Yao Ming, Dalembert, Diop, etc. Even Horry gave TD a TON of trouble in the 2001 WCF.

Robinson has the exact build and style of a defender you would want to stop Duncan. I think he'd eat him up 1 on 1, but I'd easily take Duncan to start a franchise with.

Robinson-Olajuwon would have been the most fun 1 on 1 matchup to watch because of the athletic gifts each had.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Both in their prime? It's hard to tell, but I'm going with Duncan.

He has more post moves, better footwork, more range and fundamentals, and in my opinion fundamentals are more important than athleticism.

[Quasar]

IF it makes you guys feel any better...DRob might be the last guy I'd ever pick as a GM or coach...and Duncan would be among the first(out of bigmen, I take him after I take Horry)

Huh??? The LAST guy?? I agree with you all the way about David being the superior 1-1 player but... Horry? Horry only works if you have other good players to carry the team.

[whottt]

Huh??? The LAST guy?? I agree with you all the way about David being the superior 1-1 player but... Horry? Horry only works if you have other good players to carry the team.


I'm talking about General Mangager or coach...not 1 on 1.

I think Horry would make a good coach.


And I wouldn't pickl David for that because I really don't think he has the best instincts for that sort of thing.


On top of that...he damn sure couldn't teach anyone how to play the game, how do you teach being an athletic freak...and that's what he knows.

[mystargtr34]

And Pop's on record as saying the first time David and Tim matched up, he regretted the fact that he hadn't drafted Keith Van Horne.



I don't know how anyone think Duncan is going to score on David like David is going to score on him...


Exactly how do guys propose Duncan defend a guy that has 3 inches of height on him, more reach, is faster, is stronger, and can jump higher?


Trip him?


David will dunk on Duncan all day long...Duncan better hope that bank is working as good as David's dunk is and it won't be.





I know I know...but Duncan is more talented than David...he has a much better, Tony(finals MVP) Parker and Manu(Manu!) Ginobili than David had on his best day.

First of all.... i would argue Duncan is 'stronger' than D-Rob. Id say Tim would be harder to back down and box out of a rebound given his much wider base and bigger core. D Rob would win a weight lifting contest though.

In terms of length, even though D Rob had about.. 2 inches on Tim, i would say Tim had a higher standing reach... David had a very tall head (for lack of a better description) and a long neck which gave him the extra couple inches... if you look at photos of them... their shoulders were at about the same height... and i would say Tim definately had the longer arms.

Id say this is the biggest reason Tim doesnt foul nearly as much as other shot blocking big men.... Timmy would actually block shots WITHOUT leaving the ground.... he would get into position and maybe get up on his tip toes and reach up. it was ridiculous... obviously timing had a huge part to play with alot of his blocks also.

Duncan was a far better rebounder than D-Rob....especially in traffic and in a crowd... his game was just much more suited to a 5-on-5 game and and play off basketball. timvp says one was lucky and the other was unlucky...i say thats ridiculous. A back to the basket player will always be more effective than a big man who shoots 15 foot jumpers ... its much easier to dictate the terms of a game from passing and scoring and opening things up for others.

Thats the main reason Hakeem had alot more success in the play offs than D-Rob... his game was made for playoff basketball... D-Rob put up the better stats but i say you put Hakeem on those Spurs teams, they may not win more during the regular season.... but when it gets to grinding out touch playoff environment games with playoff calls...those Spurs team with Hakeem instead of D-Rob go a little further.

Now to the question of a one on one game... D Rob wins about 7 out of 10

[Sec24Row7]

I can't...I think if both wanted to win David would win about 95% of the time. The more Duncan beat Robinson...the more motivated David would be.


ROFL... David didn't even LIKE basketball...

I'm sorry dude... David wasn't the best player to ever play the game... I know you light candles, pull out the lotion and watch your recorded games from 1991 but the guy had nowhere near the competative spirit or killer instinct Timmy does.

OR Basektball IQ. Tim will find a weakness and destroy you. David while SMART enough to find the weakness... would probably get bored.

[whottt]

First of all.... i would argue Duncan is 'stronger' than D-Rob. Id say Tim would be harder to back down and box out of a rebound given his much wider base and bigger core. D Rob would win a weight lifting contest though.

In terms of length, even though D Rob had about.. 2 inches on Tim, i would say Tim had a higher standing reach... David had a very tall head (for lack of a better description) and a long neck which gave him the extra couple inches... if you look at photos of them... their shoulders were at about the same height... and i would say Tim definately had the longer arms.

Id say this is the biggest reason Tim doesnt foul nearly as much as other shot blocking big men.... Timmy would actually block shots WITHOUT leaving the ground.... he would get into position and maybe get up on his tip toes and reach up. it was ridiculous... obviously timing had a huge part to play with alot of his blocks also.

Duncan was a far better rebounder than D-Rob....especially in traffic and in a crowd... his game was just much more suited to a 5-on-5 game and and play off basketball. timvp says one was lucky and the other was unlucky...i say thats ridiculous. A back to the basket player will always be more effective than a big man who shoots 15 foot jumpers ... its much easier to dictate the terms of a game from passing and scoring and opening things up for others.

Thats the main reason Hakeem had alot more success in the play offs than D-Rob... his game was made for playoff basketball... D-Rob put up the better stats but i say you put Hakeem on those Spurs teams, they may not win more during the regular season.... but when it gets to grinding out touch playoff environment games with playoff calls...those Spurs team with Hakeem instead of D-Rob go a little further.

Now to the question of a one on one game... D Rob wins about 7 out of 10


Hey, put all the subjective and uknown factors that you have absolutely no information on in Duncan's favor that you want....

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.


But like I said...David was the guy that won the scoring titles and the DPOY awards...he's also the guy that lead the league in rebounding and blocks...




So let me just get this straight...


Robinson is the guy that lead the league in scoring, rebounds, blocks(in some cases multiple times), scored at a higher FG% than Duncan, both from the field and from the line he's the one with the DPOY award...


But Duncan is the guy that is the better shotblocker, scorer, defender rebounder etc?



Got it.



I guess David just was the best in the league at all those things because there were fewer great bigmen back then.


I mean Shaq of 2008 kicks the crap out of Shaq of 94...ZaZa Pachulia would have been a stud if he'd been going up against lightweights like Hakeem and Shaq in their primes.

[whottt]

ROFL... David didn't even LIKE basketball...


He played basketball near all year round, representing his country and his NBA team, until his body broke down. He played with a back condition that left him with no feeling in his legs at the end of his career, guarding fucking Shaq.


He played in more Team USA games than any player in history, much of it while he was playing for the Spurs.




And you can tell how much he hates the game by the fact that he is at nearly every home game and follows them on the road in the playoffs.



I'm sorry dude... David wasn't the best player to ever play the game... I know you light candles, pull out the lotion and watch your recorded games from 1991 but the guy had nowhere near the competative spirit or killer instinct Timmy does.


You mean like the killer instinct that leads him to say he'll never play FIBA again?

Or the killer instinct that gets him held to 5 points in a playoff game?


Or destroyed by the Lakers?

[dbreiden83080]

Hey, put all the subjective and uknown factors that you have absolutely no information on in Duncan's favor that you want....

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.


But like I said...David was the guy that won the scoring titles and the DPOY awards...he's also the guy that lead the league in rebounding and blocks...




So let me just get this straight...


Robinson is the guy that lead the league in scoring, rebounds, blocks(in some cases multiple times), scored at a higher FG% than Duncan, both from the field and from the line he's the one with the DPOY award...


But Duncan is the guy that is the better shotblocker, scorer, defender rebounder etc?



Got it.



I guess David just was the best in the league at all those things because there were fewer great bigmen back then.


I mean Shaq of 2008 kicks the crap out of Shaq of 94...ZaZa Pachulia would have been a stud if he'd been going up against lightweights like Hakeem and Shaq in their primes.

Dude, i do think that David is a better defender but stop overating it compared to Duncan's D. He could have easily won DPOY about 4 times in his career and if you are being at all fair you will concede to that. Duncan has made 1st team all D like a million times. You are coming off like D-Rob was a GOD on D and Duncan is average. And David was never i repeat NEVER the best in the league at his position. Was he better all time than Hakeem?? Hell no. Was he better at his position than Shaq?? Not in my opinion?? Ewing he was better than i''ll give him that. Duncan has been a better all time player than Shaq. He has won just as much at a younger age with less pieces. Give Duncan Kobe and they win the next 5 titles. It is wonderful that D-Rob was a stat stuffer, that did not get his team to the finals in his prime. That is why i rate him behind Duncan. He should have got one of those teams to the finals in his prime the way the west was back then. Like i said before MJ and the Bulls were not in his way every year, like Ewing and others had to deal with in the playoffs.

[timvp]

But once he was off the court, it was out of his mind. It wasn't a passion for David like it was with Duncan. I think you are shortchanging Robinson a bit here. I agree that early in his career he probably didn't look at basketball as anything more than a job. Even then, he gave everything he had and left it all out on the court. He played through all types of adversity, from coaching changes, to injuries to bad teammates.

However, late in Robinson's career, I think his passion for winning grew. By 1999, Robinson wanted to win probably as much as anyone on that team. By that time, he no longer cared about stats, personal success, playing with class or anything like that. He just wanted to win. By 2003, Robinson was almost Duncan-esque in his passion for winning. I think Robinson's injury in 1997 was some sort of wake up call for him that no matter what he did on the court and the class he showed while doing so, that it basically all comes down to winning championships. Earlier in his career, Robinson probably thought it was enough just to give 100% himself because that's all he could control.

But yeah, Duncan might be the most obsessed with winning bigman in NBA history. I don't think he cares about anything other than winning a championship. Anything less than a championship is a massive failure for him. Where as Robinson was loyal to the fanbase, teammates, owners, coaches and everyone else he came in contact with, Duncan's loyalty begins and ends with championships. If Duncan could trade Pop, Manu, Parker, his wife and the city of San Antonio for the next three championships, he'd ask where to sign to consummate the deal.

:hat

[dbreiden83080]

You mean like the killer instinct that leads him to say he'll never play FIBA again?

Or the killer instinct that gets him held to 5 points in a playoff game?


Or destroyed by the Lakers?

Or the killer instict to win 4 titles, 3 finals MVP's one of which he did on 2 bum ankles. :rolleyes

[ploto]

Scary day-- a thread where I agree with timvp and Whott. :D

I choose David. People forget just how amazingly athletic he was. He could run like a deer at that height and size.

[picnroll]

I think he's a bit past his prime but at his prime Duncan was a better low post player and broke down a defense by commanding a double team in the post, opening up the perimeter, better than DRob. That counts for a lot in playoff basketball and was a large part of all those Spurs' title banners hanging in the rafters, a reason the Nellie type small ball never worked against Duncan's Spurs but did against DRob's.

[whottt]

Or the killer instict to win 4 titles, 3 finals MVP's one of which he did on 2 bum ankles. :rolleyes


Well hey...I guess Chauncey Billups and Tony Parker have more killer instinct than Manu Ginobili...after all, Manu doesn't have a finals MVP.


Come to think of it...Kobe and LeBron have zero finals MVP's...so I guess that means a back court of Chauncy and Tony would kick the shit out of Kobe and LeBron.


Damn...I'm sorry, but it's actually painful to make myself that stupid...I'll leave it to you.

[whottt]

I think he's a bit past his prime but at his prime Duncan was a better low post player and broke down a defense by commanding a double team in the post, opening up the perimeter, better than DRob. That counts for a lot in playoff basketball and was a large part of all those Spurs' title banners hanging in the rafters, a reason the Nellie type small ball never worked against Duncan's Spurs but did against DRob's.



So, how about those Suns? I tell you...you sure can tell how a bigman impacts a team :tu

[dbreiden83080]

Well hey...I guess Chauncey Billups and Tony Parker have more killer instinct than Manu Ginobili...after all, Manu doesn't have a finals MVP.



Hell Robert Horry has zero finals MVP's...I guess he doesn't care about winning at all.

Now you are just being ridiculous, you are on one side then the other. First Duncan wants it more than anyone and now you act like "Nah maybe not" i'm done with this one, on to the Dallas game and shit that actually matters going forward.

Later.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Td

[dbreiden83080]

Damn...I'm sorry, but it's actually painful to make myself that stupid...I'll leave it to you.

You made yourself far stupider about 20 posts ago, take an Advil and go to bed before you need a doctor. :rolleyes

[whottt]

Now you are just being ridiculous, you are on one side then the other. First Duncan wants it more than anyone and now you act like "Nah maybe not" i'm done with this one, on to the Dallas game and shit that actually matters going forward.

Later.


You miss the point entirely...I'm not saying Duncan didn't want it more than DRob...


I'm saying that doesn't mean he'd beat him in a game of one on one. As you are trying to argue that it does...



Oh and I'm also saying that anyone that thinks David Robinson was some kind of liabilty that kept us from winning a title...is an idiot. David Robinson WAS good enough to win an NBA title and then some...it was the Spurs that weren't.

[bdictjames]

I thought we were only talking about one-on-one? If that's the case then David would have won.

But team basketball is a different story. I'd pick Tim.. and one would be an idiot to not pick the smarter one. He's the cornerstone of both offense and defense of the San Antonio Spurs.

[dbreiden83080]

I'm saying that doesn't mean he'd beat him in a game of one on one. As you are trying to argue that it does...

No i said that would be very close. They would both get games off eachother. If Duncan is locked in his low post game it is a nightmare to handle and he will win. If D-Rob is locked in he will use his strengths as an athlete and skill to win. I never said Duncan would dominate David one on one like you are saying David would over Tim.

[picnroll]

So, how about those Suns? I tell you...you sure can tell how a bigman impacts a team :tu
How about those 2000 Suns when Duncan was injured and missed the playoffs?

[dbreiden83080]

I thought we were only talking about one-on-one? If that's the case then David would have won.

But team basketball is a different story. I'd pick Tim.. and one would be an idiot to not pick the smarter one. He's the cornerstone of both offense and defense of the San Antonio Spurs.

Right but i think one on one it is close. In a team game i am taking Tim every single time.

[Brutalis]

This is David dunking all over a two time DPOY:


Charlotte (111) @ San Antonio (124) 01/16/93


Charlotte (111)

POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF TP
Johnson,Larry F 42 6-16 5- 8 1- 3 1-14 4 1 0 3 2 18
Newman,Johnny F 14 1- 1 5- 6 0- 0 1- 1 0 0 0 0 4 7
Mourning,Alonzo C 32 9-20 6-10 0- 0 2- 5 0 0 4 2 5 24
Bogues,Muggsy G 34 3- 7 5- 6 0- 0 1- 6 7 0 0 3 2 11
Gill,Kendall G 40 6-16 4- 6 0- 0 1- 4 2 4 0 1 1 16
Gattison,Kenny 15 0- 1 1- 2 0- 0 0- 2 2 0 1 0 5 1
Wingate,David 21 3- 6 1- 2 0- 1 3- 3 0 2 1 1 0 7
Curry,Dell 26 7-12 0- 0 1- 1 0- 1 2 1 0 1 1 15
Bennett,Tony 14 4- 6 2- 3 2- 3 0- 0 2 1 0 0 2 12
Hammonds,Tom 2 0- 0 0- 0 0- 0 0- 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
TOTALS 240 39-85 29-43 4- 8 9-38 19 9 6 11 22 111

FG %: .459 FT %: .674 Three %: .500 Team Rebs: 17 Team TOs: 0


San Antonio (124)

POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF TP
Ellis,Dale F 38 9-17 0- 0 3- 6 2- 6 4 0 0 1 2 21
Carr,Antoine F 15 5- 6 2- 3 0- 0 0- 2 2 0 3 0 6 12
Robinson,David C 40 20-28 11-15 1- 2 3-14 3 0 7 2 3 52
Johnson,Avery G 32 2- 4 0- 0 0- 0 0- 0 12 1 0 1 4 4
Del Negro,Vinny G 36 6-14 2- 2 0- 1 2- 7 3 1 0 3 5 14
Reid,J.R. 24 0- 6 4- 4 0- 0 1-10 0 0 0 0 4 4
Daniels,Lloyd 17 1- 6 0- 0 1- 3 0- 0 5 0 0 1 2 3
Smith,Larry 14 1- 1 0- 0 0- 0 2- 3 1 0 0 0 3 2
Wood,David 11 1- 2 1- 2 0- 0 0- 1 1 0 1 2 2 3
Mack,Sam 13 3- 8 3- 4 0- 2 2- 4 0 0 0 1 1 9
TOTALS 240 48-92 23-30 5-14 12-47 31 2 11 11 32 124

FG %: .522 FT %: .767 Three %: .357 Team Rebs: 9 Team TOs: 1

Charlotte 21 28 23 39 -- 111
San Antonio 30 31 30 33 -- 124

Officials: JIM CAPERS, TOMMY NUNEZ, DAN CRAWFORD
Attendance: 16057 Time of Game: 2:08



I know it's surprising for you to see an offensive stiff with no move like David Robinson scoring 52 points in a game...but he did it on a few occasions, believe it or not...


For a guy that couldn't score...David sure could score...like as in he won a scoring title...I know...it was luck.


Seriously...you guys should apply for a job with ESPN...you'll fit right in.

That was the first ever game I watched of DRob whottt, how ironic.

[Brutalis]

1-on-1? David probably wins it. He was bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic. Plus, his jumper was better and he'd be more of a threat to block a shot. Tim would have to rely on post moves to score, while David could just drive around Tim.

As for when they're primes were, David's was obviously at some point in '94 or '95. TD is harder to figure out. His post moves were best early in his career but his defense didn't become consistently good until later. I'd guess you'd have to say '03 but a lot of the aspects of his game are actually better today (passing, weakside defense, leadership).

The only reason David isn't considered a top ten player of all-time is just bad luck. First of all, he had horrible teammates during his prime. Everyone talks about KG having bad teammates but David's were consistently much worse. On top of that, David played in probably the most physical and slow paced era in the history of the NBA. If you move his career ten years sooner or ten years later and he'd be unguardable. David in his prime today with the no handchecking rules, charge circle and faster paced games would be unstoppable. He could average 32-34 points if he played today.

David gets bashed for not winning before 1999 but Duncan too would have had zero rings playing on all those teams David was on. The supporting cast and coaches on those teams were just not good enough. Put Tim on the 1995 team and that team probably has 10 less regular season wins and gets bounced in the second round.

The thing about TD is he's built for playoff basketball. Everything about his game fits in perfect for when the playoffs begin. TD can orchestrate an offense on the low block. He's competitive, consistent and never backs down. He's also great at adjusting during games and during series. If you want to build a prototype for a bigman that can excel in playoff basketball, the result would end up playing a lot like TD.

David was just more of an athletic freak of nature who happened to be a great basketball player. His game wasn't especially built for the playoffs but it wasn't like his level of play dipped in the playoffs. It was just the same domination he showed during the regular season. Give David two possible Hall of Famers at the guard positions and he too could have won championships.

History will show the Tim was a lot better than David but that just isn't true. David was unlucky and Tim was lucky ... and that was the biggest difference in their careers.

That's my feelings exactly.

People here may be voting based on who's a better player, not a 1-1 matchup. I thought this might happen.

[whottt]

I thought we were only talking about one-on-one? If that's the case then David would have won.

But team basketball is a different story. I'd pick Tim.. and one would be an idiot to not pick the smarter one. He's the cornerstone of both offense and defense of the San Antonio Spurs.



David Robinson has a degree in mathematcis, qualified for MENSA on his college entrance exam, used to build TV's and stereos as a hobby, was the best chess player in the Naval Academy and once kept a running total of his mom's grocery store bill, when she won a shopping spree, in his head, including tax.


You guys do not know kind of man you are fucking with here...he is a freak.



Like I said...can you walk the length of a basketball court on your hands?


The dude is 7'1 and he could do that.

He also was the fastest guy from baseline to baseline in win sprints.


In the Navy, he graded out as the best gymnast in his class...and he was 6' fucking 7.


You think about all those gymnasts, those dude are 5'7 5'5...


David was an insanely gifted athlete, he was insanely gifted if he'd been 6 feet tall...but he was 7'1...and no one in the NBA was a match for him...not even Hakeem.


Duncan better eat his spinach.

[mavs>spurs2]

David.


Duncan couldn't have guarded David. David was faster than Dirk and Duncan can't guard Dirk. And David could have defended Duncan and lot better than Duncan could have defended him...


As for Hakeem, he didn't just do that to David, he did it to everyone, and he'd have done it to Duncan if Duncan had been around.


Plus...Hakeem didn't score as many points on David as Amare scored on Tim...


Watching Duncan guard Amare is a pretty good indicator of what it would have been like for Duncan to guard David...

Except for the fact that David is bigger, stronger, can jump higher, and dunk better than Amare.

Plus he's about one million times the defender Amare is.




That David didn't have go to offensive move is ludicrous, the man won a scoring title and dropped 71 points in a game. The only people that say he couldn't score are people that never saw him play. He could score. In fact he was one of the best scoring bigmen in NBA history.

He scored more points at a higher PCT than Duncan did through the first 7 years of his career.

Thank you for being 100% unbiased! :clap Hakeem is probably my favorite all time player and imo 2nd best all time, but I feel he rarely gets the recognition and credit he deserves. Hakeem could probably take anyone all time in a 1 on 1 game. I also think that Tim vs David could be a wash, but i'm leaning more towards David. It would be more about individual talents and skills than fundamentals and this is where Robinson has the advantage.

[Brutalis]

Who gets the ball first?
DRob

Age before beauty.

[Brutalis]

That was the first ever game I watched of DRob whottt, how ironic.
I think... it may not be the game.

I'm drunk and it's taking me forever to type but my drunken memory is doubting itself in its current state.

[Taijihu]

I don't know who will win.but i vote TD.
PS:1 on 1 is nonsense in basketball game

[whottt]

How about those 2000 Suns when Duncan was injured and missed the playoffs?


How about you get back to me when Duncan is 35...

[mystargtr34]

Hey, put all the subjective and uknown factors that you have absolutely no information on in Duncan's favor that you want....

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.


But like I said...David was the guy that won the scoring titles and the DPOY awards...he's also the guy that lead the league in rebounding and blocks...




So let me just get this straight...


Robinson is the guy that lead the league in scoring, rebounds, blocks(in some cases multiple times), scored at a higher FG% than Duncan, both from the field and from the line he's the one with the DPOY award...


But Duncan is the guy that is the better shotblocker, scorer, defender rebounder etc?



Got it.



I guess David just was the best in the league at all those things because there were fewer great bigmen back then.


I mean Shaq of 2008 kicks the crap out of Shaq of 94...ZaZa Pachulia would have been a stud if he'd been going up against lightweights like Hakeem and Shaq in their primes.

Duncan has been all first team defense every single year in the league.

In fact i believe he and D-Rob are the only two guys in league history to be named All NBA First and All NBA Defensive First teams in their first 7 seasons.... i think Tim held his streak for a bout 10 seasons. Do you honestly think Ron Artest or Marcus Camby impact a game on the defensive end more than Duncan ?

Tim Duncan averaged more blocks and rebounds per minute then Ben Wallace both times Wallace won DPOY in 05 and 06. Tim coud and probably should have multiple DPOY awards.

David Robinson will always be under rated in my opinion... but you cant hide his playoff failures... i dont wanna come on here and bash D-Rob in order to try and prove my point that Tim was greater but ill point out a few facts...

For whottt's assertion that D-Rob was such a greater score than Duncan, there were only two occassions in D-Robs career that he had a clear cut scoring advantage over Tim... 93/94 where he lifted his attempts to nearly 21 a game and the next season where he put up 27.6...

Duncan was a superior rebounder in nearly every season ... especially in traffic and in a crowd.

Having said that i dont think any one doubts that D-Rob put up better numbers than Duncan in the regular season... what sets them apart

D-Robs FG% drops from 52% to 48% in the playoffs
Points Per Game dropped from 21.8 to 18.1

Tim on the other hand
FG % remained exactly the same through
Points Per Game went from 21.7 to 23.8

[Phenomanul]

Thats the main reason Hakeem had alot more success in the play offs than D-Rob... his game was made for playoff basketball... D-Rob put up the better stats but i say you put Hakeem on those Spurs teams, they may not win more during the regular season.... but when it gets to grinding out touch playoff environment games with playoff calls...those Spurs team with Hakeem instead of D-Rob go a little further.




Wrong.

The main reason Hakeem had alot more success in the playoffs than D-Rob was because he had an assortment of some of the clutchest shooters and playoff performers of all time as teammates.

Wasn't it Cassell who shot the dagger against the Spurs just last week? And wasn't it Horry who almost pulled off the miracle tie? They're so clutch they can still do it at the age of 37. As cliché-esque as that may sound; you don't teach clutch... you either have it or you don't. Olajuwon was blessed to be surrounded by clutch players and won championships because they were on his side.

Olajuwon shouldered his team's scoring load during his playoff series... But he relied heavily on his shooters in the clutch.

Sam Cassell
Robert Horry
Mario Elie &
Kenny Smith

:reading
David had no such arsenal. To deny that would be to misrepresent history.

[Phenomanul]

D-Robs FG% drops from 52% to 48% in the playoffs
Points Per Game dropped from 21.8 to 18.1

Tim on the other hand
FG % remained exactly the same through
Points Per Game went from 21.7 to 23.8


That's a little unfair to David considering his waning years are in that mix... Duncan has yet to play them out.

[O.J. Mayonnaise]

Wow, why so many votes for Duncan? In a 1 on 1 game, so many of the things that make Duncan great don't matter, like playing help defense, directing the offense from the post, and passing out of double teams. There is absolutely no way Duncan could guard Robinson 1 on 1. Think of how Duncan gets lit up by Amare Stoudamire when he has to guard him 1 on 1. Robinson was just as fast and just as athletic as Amare, maybe moreso, but he was 7'1" on top of it. Robinson was probably a better athlete that Michael Jordan.

[whottt]

Duncan has been all first team defense every single year in the league.

In fact i believe he and D-Rob are the only two guys in league history to be named All NBA First and All NBA Defensive First teams in their first 7 seasons.... i think Tim held his streak for a bout 10 seasons. Do you honestly think Ron Artest or Marcus Camby impact a game on the defensive end more than Duncan ?

Tim Duncan averaged more blocks and rebounds per minute then Ben Wallace both times Wallace won DPOY in 05 and 06. Tim coud and probably should have multiple DPOY awards.

David Robinson will always be under rated in my opinion... but you cant hide his playoff failures... i dont wanna come on here and bash D-Rob in order to try and prove my point that Tim was greater but ill point out a few facts...

For whottt's assertion that D-Rob was such a greater score than Duncan, there were only two occassions in D-Robs career that he had a clear cut scoring advantage over Tim... 93/94 where he lifted his attempts to nearly 21 a game and the next season where he put up 27.6...

Duncan was a superior rebounder in nearly every season ... especially in traffic and in a crowd.

Having said that i dont think any one doubts that D-Rob put up better numbers than Duncan in the regular season... what sets them apart

D-Robs FG% drops from 52% to 48% in the playoffs
Points Per Game dropped from 21.8 to 18.1

Tim on the other hand
FG % remained exactly the same through
Points Per Game went from 21.7 to 23.8



Tim Duncan has hardly ever taken the toughest defensice asignment in his career...David Robinson hardly ever didn't take it.



On top of that...Drob had a PG that had no outside shot, the guy made 1 playoff 3 pointer in a 19 year career.....I mean, Nazr Mohammed has made 2 3 pointers.


The worst offensive player Duncan started with, Bruce, was a 3 point champiion...



Duncan didn't see more doubles than David...he's had guys like Robert Horry and Mario Elie...the same guys Hakeem had...and Shaq...DRob had freaking Vinny Del Negro and JR Reid.




That's why he has a nice FG%, go look at what David did when he had legitiate NBA caliber starting players on his team...he put up some numbers that put Duincan, Hakeem, Shaq, anyone else to shame just about.

When Duncan is doubled and his guys aren't hitting shots A. He doesn't shoot particularly well and B. He turns it over like a mofo.


And David is also one of only 2 players in NBA history to lead a post season in blocks and boards.



And you know guys...it's easier put up numbers over 20 games than it is over 82.


I'm sorry but Duncan was a not a better man defender...this is an entirely new argument that no one has even attemped before on his behalf....and yes, you are making that argument, because this about 1 on 1...team defense doesn't mean shit.



David Robinson was never lifted off any player because of an inaiblity to guard them...that's not true of Duncan. Michael Finley drew defensive asignments ahead of Duncan on some players.

[O.J. Mayonnaise]

Wow, I had forgotten how bad Robinson's supporting casts were. I'm trying to remember who the best teammate David had before Duncan. Was it Elliott?

[michaelwcho]

Fun question! Why all the hostility, I wonder--there are legitimate points on both sides.

When people say DRob was stronger, are they intimating that he could somehow bully Duncan? If so, that seems strange, given Robinson's reputation was not exactly an enforcer, and that Duncan has excelled in the playoffs, when the ability to fight physically is a top attribute. Therefore, I can't consider the strength to be a viable advantage.

The height is also somewhat questionable. As earlier pointed out, Duncan has high shoulders, long arms, and big hands. He also knows how to block out. I doubt Robinson would be reaching over his head to dunk in missed shots. That's an unrealistic expectation in a 1-on-1 game.

I think the main advantage would be the speed aspect. Duncan would not be able to move laterally enough to guard David's jumper at the key. Therefore, on days when that shot was falling, David would easily win.

David's size and quickness would bother Duncan's shot, too.

I say David takes 7/10. Just because he has the edge doesn't mean he'll dominate. And despite his gifts, he didn't seem to have the "flow" or natural instincts for the game, which Timmie has in spades. I know, very scientific...

[whottt]

Wow, I had forgotten how bad Robinson's supporting casts were. I'm trying to remember who the best teammate David had before Duncan. Was it Elliott?

Terry Cummings...followed by Dennis Rodman.


Not exactly two guys known for knocking down outside shots(although Rodman did try).

[O.J. Mayonnaise]

That's it? Cummings only had what, like 3 good years in San Antonio and those were at the beginning of Robinson's career. Rodman went nuts after like 2 years. Parker and Ginobili are way better than those guys. Both of them can carry an offense for extended periods of time. Did Robinson ever have a guy that could do that?

[O-Factor]

Duncan is the best PF/C to "play the game" IMO. 1 on 1 Robinson in his prime would get the better of Tim. Too much athleticism from David for Tim to contend with.

That being said, in a "team game", Duncan is as savvy as we have ever seen in the NBA and a master in the paint on both ends of the floor.

[whottt]

Parker and Ginobili are way better than those guys. Both of them can carry an offense for extended periods of time. Did Robinson ever have a guy that could do that?


Sure...Tim Duncan, after David got injured in 1996-97 and DRob's awesome supporting cast puked up the worst record in team history(and 3rd worst in the NBA that season), for the biggest single season negative turnaround recordwise, in NBA history.

[picnroll]

Cummings had a better mid-range shot than any big Duncan has ever played with. Cummings at the level he played at with DRob pre- knee injury would be he best big man Duncan's had since DRob retired. Bag on Rodman but MJ was certainly able to get something out of him. And as I re-call a guy named Elliott was a pretty fair defender and could knock down an outside shot. Parker isn't exactly a stud at outside shooting. Apart from Ginobilli who's been with the Spurs half Duncan's career and a French kid who Duncan raised the Spurs have built a bunch of journeymen, over the hills and one hit wonders around Duncan like Kerr, Finley, Barry, Rasho, Nazr, Jackson, Nazr, Hedo, Speedy, Vaughn. etc., etc., etc.. Duncan's greatness has put those banners up. I'm not ragging on DRob, he was a great player but Duncan had/has more metal.

[O.J. Mayonnaise]

Well, I meant besides Tim Duncan. This team right now, without Duncan, would at least be decent.

[picnroll]

Well, I meant besides Tim Duncan. This team right now, without Duncan, would at least be decent.
No it wouldn't. Without Duncan it wouldn't come close to making the playoffs. Hell, this year even with Duncan it's having a fight to make the playoffs in the West. Without Duncan Parker and Ginobilli would be so gassed they'd be on life support.

[O.J. Mayonnaise]

I don't think they'd make the playoff in the west this year, but they would probably be around .500, not the 3rd worst team in the NBA.

[whottt]

Without Duncan this team ripped off a 15-6 record a couple of years ago and became the first team in NBA history to win back to back double OT games.


And btw pic...I notice you left Horry out of that equation....




TC was a stud I said so...but as Duncan and Robinson proved, you need outside shooting...


And Rodman was not an offensive player of any sort.


Jordan got something out of it?



Jordan's team nearly made the NBA finals without him, taking the eventual finalists to 7 games.


DRob's team posted the biggest negative single season turnarounde in NBA history.


And I'd have taken Scottie over Rodman or Cummings...or Vinny.


You really want to get into this pic, because I can easily tear this argument to shreds...about whose teams performed better without them....you will lose and you will lose badly.

[whottt]

I don't think there has ever been an NBA champion in NBA history that was not at least a playoff team without it's best player...and this includes any and all Spurs teams. I do not think it is possible for one player to turn a lottery team into an NBA champion...

[picnroll]

I don't think they'd make the playoff in the west this year, but they would probably be around .500, not the 3rd worst team in the NBA.
A big man rotation of Oberto, Horry, Bonner and Elson for the season. Good luck with that.

[whottt]

I hate to break it to you guys...


But Tony? He has a finals MVP.


Manu? Some people are saying he is the MVP this season. I mean he just kicked LeBron's ass off the court a few weeks ago.

Did Manu, or did Manu not, beat Tim Duncan in the Olympics a few years ago?






Not even close to AJ and Vinny...and it matters.


Like I said earlier...maybe some of you people will realize it when they are in the HOF...along with Pop.

[dbreiden83080]

The 2003 team was not likely to make the playoffs if Timmy did not post his MVP championship year. Tony, was all over the place, Manu was like an experiment who knew if he would work out, Jackson was good but inconsistant and D-Rob was on his last legs. Yes Duncan has had some better players but those players did not start doing much of anything until the title of 2005. Hell most people thought Tony finally earned his stripes just last year by finally playing well in the finals.

[whottt]

A big man rotation of Oberto, Horry, Bonner and Elson for the season. Good luck with that.



You mean Horry that put a ring on Duncan's finger and finals MVP in his hand with a game 5 in Detroit a couple of years ago?


The same Horry that has 7 rings?

I know you don't mean that Horry...he's good, just ask the coach of your team.


Hell ask Tim Duncan...he's only been here for 5 years.




Horry is so good, he held Amare Stoudamire and Boris Diaw scoreless...in the same game. It mattered...

[dbreiden83080]

I hate to break it to you guys...


But Tony? He has a finals MVP.


Manu? Some people are saying he is the MVP this season. I mean he just kicked LeBron's ass off the court a few weeks ago.

Did Manu, or did Manu not, beat Tim Duncan in the Olympics a few years ago?






Not even close to AJ and Vinny...and it matters.


Like I said earlier...maybe some of you people will realize it when they are in the HOF...along with Pop.

So just to put a final stamp on this, who is better all time for you Duncan or D-Rob?? About the Same, or does D-Rob mow Duncan down??

[picnroll]

And btw pic...I notice you left Horry out of that equation....


Horry has had to be nursed through every season. He was so burned out that the Lakers dumped him.

Go back and watch the Orlando - Magic series. It was Rodman controlling Shaq. Here's (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C04E4DE1039F933A15756C0A9609582 60) a little reminder in case you forgot. DRob couldn't get it out of Rodman but I'll bet Duncan could have.

[O.J. Mayonnaise]

These last 2 years, Manu and Tony have carried more of the offense than Duncan. During the rodeo trip, Manu carried the whole team while Parker was out. When Duncan went out, Manu scored 37 points in back to back games before he got injured. When you consider that Parker is just barely getting back to normal, this team would definitely be at least a .500 team without Duncan.

[SHAQOWNSDUNCAN]

Who Really Cares They Both Fing Sucked In The Nba

[dbreiden83080]

Who Really Cares They Both Fing Sucked In The Nba

BAN!!!!!! :pctoss

[dbreiden83080]

These last 2 years, Manu and Tony have carried more of the offense than Duncan. During the rodeo trip, Manu carried the whole team while Parker was out. When Duncan went out, Manu scored 37 points in back to back games before he got injured. When you consider that Parker is just barely getting back to normal, this team would definitely be at least a .500 team without Duncan.

They might be .500 now but back in say 2002 and 2003 they would have been garbage without Tim.

[SHAQOWNSDUNCAN]

Why Ban Me All My Posts Have Been Thought Through Carefully And There Is No Trolling At All In Them Stop Being Such A Fanboy

[picnroll]

You mean Horry that put a ring on Duncan's finger and finals MVP in his hand with a game 5 in Detroit a couple of years ago?


The same Horry that has 7 rings?

I know you don't mean that Horry...he's good, just ask the coach of your team.


Hell ask Tim Duncan...he's only been here for 5 years.




Horry is so good, he held Amare Stoudamire and Boris Diaw scoreless...in the same game. It mattered...
Yeah Horry's been tearing it up this year. He's been a role player in a big man rotation every year. He's had good games. He's hit clutch shots but don't insult us by saying his level of play was on par with what Cummings brought the first few years he was with the Spurs. It was DRob that gave him the opportunity to make clutch plays just like it was Hakeem's and Shaq's before Duncan.

[whottt]

Horry has had to be nursed through every season. He was so burned out that the Lakers dumped him.

I see...and how'd that turn out for the Lakers?







Go back and watch the Orlando - Magic series. It was Rodman controlling Shaq. Here's (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C04E4DE1039F933A15756C0A9609582 60) a little reminder in case you forgot. DRob couldn't get it out of Rodman but I'll bet Duncan could have.

Hmm...since Duncan's coach, is the guy who kicked Rodman's ass out of town...I doubt very seriously he'd have gotten the chance.





And I agree...it might have been nice to see Rodman get minutes on Hakeem...

Unfortunately that HOF Level ROOKIE coach DRob had...Bob Hill, didn't see fit to attempt that, and instead asked David Robinson to carry the offense and the defense, agaisnt the defending NBA champions...something Duncan has yet to have to do for anything other than spot minutes.

[dbreiden83080]

Why Ban Me All My Posts Have Been Thought Through Carefully And There Is No Trolling At All In Them Stop Being Such A Fanboy

Yeah thought through using the troll guidebook 101. :drunk

[picnroll]

These last 2 years, Manu and Tony have carried more of the offense than Duncan. During the rodeo trip, Manu carried the whole team while Parker was out. When Duncan went out, Manu scored 37 points in back to back games before he got injured. When you consider that Parker is just barely getting back to normal, this team would definitely be at least a .500 team without Duncan.
Manu can carry the team for about four games then he needs to go on a respirator for about three weeks.

[Fernando TD21]

I voted before reading all the posts and I voted as a fan, so I voted for Tim Duncan. But after reading all the arguments I have to recognize the fact that David would probably win most of the time in a 1 on 1 game.
But I would still take Duncan in a NBA game (and in video games :lol ).

That said, I think it's sad that some Spurs fans doesn't value everything that David Robinson represented to the Spurs and to the NBA. I didn't see him playing on his prime, but just by watching some videos I know how amazing he was.
And it's also a bad thing the fact that some people try to make it look like David was incredibly superior to Duncan and Duncan is just luckier in his career.

[dbreiden83080]

Manu can carry the team for about four games then he needs to go on a respirator for about three weeks.

LOL!! :toast

[dbreiden83080]

I voted before reading all the posts and I voted as a fan, so I voted for Tim Duncan. But after reading all the arguments I have to recognize the fact that David would probably win most of the time in a 1 on 1 game.
But I would still take Duncan in a NBA game (and in video games :lol ).

That said, I think it's sad that some Spurs fans doesn't value everything that David Robinson represented to the Spurs and to the NBA. I didn't see him playing on his prime, but just by watching some videos I know how amazing he was.
And it's also a bad thing the fact that some people try to make it look like David was incredibly superior to Duncan and Duncan is just luckier in his career.

I don't devalue David i think he was great just feel that Duncan is better is all. The dream would have been to see them both in their primes for a decade. They would have won probably 8 titles together easy, the league would have been all there's to own.

[O.J. Mayonnaise]

Manu carried the team for the entire month of February. The only time he's been exhausted this season was during that ridiculous 8 games in 11 days streak when the whole team was tired.

[whottt]

dbreiden...in answer to your question...greatness?


Tim Duncan is the greater basketball player...but not for reasons that would give him an edge in a one on one matchup...it's not as simple as you want it to be.


Championships matter when discussing greatness, as does public opinion and acclaim...


But from an individual standpoint David Robinson just might have been the greatest team carrier in NBA history..there is substantial evidence to indicate he was. I mean talking about carrying weak teams to the playoffs...not just in the NBA but in college as well...you could argue he did it the 88 Olympics as well.


David Robinson was an insanely difficult matchup for any C in the NBA one on one, including Hakeem and Shaq...and he was one of the best defensive C's in the history of the game....and I mean he is on the short list.



Like I said..the only 2 guys in NBA history to win a scoring title and a DPOY...are Michael Jordan..and David Robinson...


That's not too shabby for a guy that, "didn't even like the game".


I don't get into these things to rip Duncan...but dumbfucks need to stop ripping the Admiral...questioning his hear, or his commitment to the Spurs and San Antonio...they are fucking ignorant to do that. And David Robinson is going to get his due on Spursboards and from Spursfans if it is hte last thing I do.

I am used to ESPN and big media doing it...for they do it still to this day...

But when you constantly see them overlooking the Spurs and downplaying their achievements...that is exactly what was done to David Robinson as well...only to a much worse degree, and it is inexcusable for Spurfans to be a party to it...if you never saw him play in his prime, just say so.

[dbreiden83080]

Tim Duncan is the greater basketball player...but not for reasons that would give him an edge in a one on one matchup...it's not as simple as you want it to be.

How many times do you want me to say this?? I never said once that Timmy would own D-Rob in that area, i never said that. I said i think they would both do well off eachother. I might favor Tim slightly but i know damn well if they play 10 times David is going to get his games. He is too great a player not too. I as well feel Tim is the better player in the team game. I know D-Rob is one the best big men ever, he is far too accomplished to feel otherwise.

[whottt]

How many times do you want me to say this?? I never said once that Timmy would own D-Rob in that area, i never said that. I said i think they would both do well off eachother. I might favor Tim slightly but i know damn well if they play 10 times David is going to get his games. He is too great a player not too. I as well feel Tim is the better player in the team game. I know D-Rob is one the best big men ever, he is far too accomplished to feel otherwise.


Then our debate is over and my work here is done :tu



As you were...

[Brutalis]

72-72

dun dun dun!

[whottt]

And yes...winning championships were unquestionably more important to Tim Duncan than David Robinson, in fact one of the last statements uttered by David Robinson as a Spur was...Championships do not define you...he said as the Spurs were celebrating their 03 championship.


That doesn't mean Drob was the reason he didn't win more of them. You stick Manu fucking Ginobili on the 95 Spurs and it's hard for me to envision a scenario where they don't beat the Rockets that year...


And they'd have beaten the Magic if they had gotten by the Rockets....the Magic got swept...and Shaq was David's bitch then.

[whottt]

Speed Kills:

CKVqpXl3M18&feature=related


Be sure to check out how many blocks per game the Admiral was averaging...

[polandprzem]

whottt a thread !

Well first of all I want to say tjhat playing basketball is not an athletic contest, even one on one. That's why Wilt was losing to Bill's teams. Wilt was such an athletic freak that it was insaine. But you could write a failure on his jersey and it would suite. Well maybe I put too much color on it but I like Russells basketball better then Wilts.

One thing said - you can put failure on Dave as well. But there is more to it looking at the basketball as a game of many pieces.
That's why I put Duncan higher on basketball player standards in every way.

As for 1-1 it is still more a mind game then a body abilieties game.
Dave once said- when you win a video game against Tim you may be sure he will be back stronger , cause he will be practicing so hard and so long to figure out how to win, and he will (not excactly the phrase, but you know what does that mean).

So I think that TD would have much more chances to win then whott thinks. Taking away the aspect of the breaks in a team game (fucking computer dammmit :pctoss) [sorry for that]
many daves abilieties are taken away in one on one situation. Robbo would have to count on his fade aways, his jumpshot and faking TD and beating him with spead. Both guys have good ball handling but TD got better both hands. Daves 1-1 D was questioned and denied by Hakeem.

Okay hold on whott, that was only one series I know
Hold on 2 - Hakeem had a big load of 3pt shooters (I will bring the stats later)

INOMY Dave was better help defender then a 1-1 defender
Tim was a better team defender then 1-1 defender
Who was better 1-1 defender of them? It’s hard to tell IMO it is slight difference and even when you want to take that aspect on someone’s advantage in 1-1 game (not 1-1 situation) that will be hardly an edge you want consider to be superb in that 1-1 game.

So whottt I think it is not that clear that Dave would demolish TD.

[polandprzem]

Half of a text went out cause of this shitty comp :pctoss

[polandprzem]

In the 1994 season Ellis was shooting 39.5% (131/332) what was not bad, and he made 1.7 basket from 3 pt land. Next one was the famous Del Negro with 0.2 basket a game!
Same year in the playoffs Ellis was 5 of 17, spurs played 4 games and they made 12 of 39 shots (30.8%) - thay made 3 3point shots per game

Additional the rebounds:
Cummings 6.3 – playoff - (5.0 regular)
Reid 3.0reb/game – playoff (3.1 regular)


Houston 1994 playoff
Shooters:
Maxwell 45/138
Horry 34/89
Smith 34/76
Cassell 17/45
Ellie 10/32

Together : 140/380 36.8%
6 3pt shots made a game



1995

Rebounds (other then Rodman):
Playoff Reid 2.8 , Cummings 2.1
Regular 4.9 oraz 5.0 respectivly

Shooters (regular):
Elliott 136/333 40,8%
Del Negro 66/162 40,7%
Person 172/445 38,7%

In playoff 59/166 (35.5%) they made 3.9 basket a game.
Rodman 0/5 , Rob 1/5, rest 0/3

Houston same year (playoff):
Drexler 30/99
Horry 44/110
Cassell 24/60
Smith 46/104
Elie 28/65
Chillcut  14/36

All shooters 186/474 39,2%

Houston made 8.5 triple a game !

[Jimcs50]

this poll is not fair, half the fans in here never saw DRob play when he was in his prime.

[polandprzem]

this poll is not fair, half the fans in here never saw DRob play when he was in his prime.
So?

You want to do the tests? (who watched and who didn't?)

[Jimcs50]

So?

You want to do the tests? (who watched and who didn't?)

the point is, if you did not watch them both in their primes night in night out, then you whould not have a valid opinion on this matter....

[polandprzem]

the point is, if you did not watch them both in their primes night in night out, then you whould not have a valid opinion on this matter....

People got their opinions.
IMO all the polls are not right.

For excample on that one. How much games do you want people to see in Admirals prime?
I haven't seen much of those games I must say, but Am I making worse opinions (arguments) then those who saw Dave play and still thinks he is a big pussy cause he never lead his team to sucess, his stats were droping in the playoffs and he was destroyed by The Dream.
Even on the facts people got their own standards.

[Sec24Row7]

The only thing that ever gets accomplished on a Tim vs David thread is a +80 to Whottt's post count and +40 to his HDL Cholesterol.

[Indazone]

Sorry but Duncan is better than D-Rob. Duncan is quicker.

[Killakobe81]

Though duncan is the better PLAYER ...especially post moves wise ...Admiral would win he has way more athelticisim ...than Timmy ever had was a better shot-blocker, stealer of teh ball ..and those would come in to play more often 1 on 1 every extra possession could mean a basket for Robinson ...and as far as the comments about what Dream did to the Admiral in the WCF Duncan is HOF but he aint no Olajawon ...1 on1 Hakeem shakes em both ...

[AFE7FATMAN]

One would only have to reference the 1995 playoffs when Hakeem school David in his MVP year. Tim would have the same effect with his footwork and solid fundamentals.

Despite all of his talents, David never had a go to offensive move. Tim would win probably 11-6, probably worse if make it take was in action.

Lets not forget David has back problems during those games against Hakeem
however I agree Tim would take him because DR never really had "A Shot" and
all you had to do against David was play him physically

[Sec24Row7]

Whottt.... you know I disagree with you about most of this but I got this...


Sorry but Duncan is better than D-Rob. Duncan is quicker.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH breath...


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHA

[polandprzem]

Lets not forget David has back problems during those games against Hakeem
however I agree Tim would take him because DR never really had "A Shot" and
all you had to do against David was play him physically

I disagree. Dave had a good shot.
He could hit from every angle front basket baseline shots, bankers, fade aways was superb. He could only be afected by phisical defense.

[theroc5]

Duncan 7-0

[jcrod]

THe only thing that kept David down was his teammates. He never had any. Come on, he took a team of Avery, Del Negro, Elliot, Rodman to 62 wins and a Rodman fuck up from the finals (where they would've beaten Orlando).

You give Drob, Parker, Manu, Bowen. THe team wins 70+ every yr. Duncan has a better offensive low post game. But Drob was a freak who never had a decent team around him.

[ECZ]

this one is TOUGH.....but i gotta go with Tim

11-9

[Jimcs50]

Sorry but Duncan is better than D-Rob. Duncan is quicker.



:rollin

[fyatuk]

That's it? Cummings only had what, like 3 good years in San Antonio and those were at the beginning of Robinson's career. Rodman went nuts after like 2 years. Parker and Ginobili are way better than those guys. Both of them can carry an offense for extended periods of time. Did Robinson ever have a guy that could do that?

Not reliably. Once in a blue moon, Sean Eliot, Willie Anderson (before the calf problems), or Rod Strickland could go off. I don't think DRob ever played with anyone else who was even a threat to carry a team, and none of those was too serious a threat.

For the original topic. DRob wins. Probably very close, since in Tim's younger days he had pretty dang good lateral movement (remember, he would be asked to guard point guards at times in his first few years and could stay in front of them), and it's really only the last 3-4 that he's developped foot problems and slowed down. I still think David's athleticism wins out in 1-on-1.

[howbouthemspurs]

This is one of the more stupid debates. It's not even a debate. Robinson would destroy Duncan in his prime for sure!. Who do you think taught Duncan half of what he knows?.. Remember, Robinson was as fundamental as he was athletic. And he was one of the most physically fit athletes the game has ever seen! Duncan wouldn't stand a chance. All you haters don't give D-Rob enough credit, which is sad. He's the one that single handedly saved the entire franchise! Show some respect!

[jcrod]

Not reliably. Once in a blue moon, Sean Eliot, Willie Anderson (before the calf problems), or Rod Strickland could go off. I don't think DRob ever played with anyone else who was even a threat to carry a team, and none of those was too serious a threat.

For the original topic. DRob wins. Probably very close, since in Tim's younger days he had pretty dang good lateral movement (remember, he would be asked to guard point guards at times in his first few years and could stay in front of them), and it's really only the last 3-4 that he's developped foot problems and slowed down. I still think David's athleticism wins out in 1-on-1.


Duncan never had lateral quickness.

The pg you're referencing was Mark Jackson (Kid yesterday). All Mark would do was post up the PG because he was big, but nothing else. So Pop put TD on him knowing he couldn't post him up or drive by him because he also was slow.

[dogzofwar]

This one is easy to ask but cannot be answered in this format.

I do not have the time to read all 150 posts going back and forth but from what I gathered all Duncan fans are comparing Duncan in his prime to Rob late in his career and all the DRob fans comparing the young DRob to the Duncan now. Funny how that works. Let's take care of that and put them both at the same peak in their careers.

Now for the second issue...I keep hearing about who was the better player...what on earth does the better player in a 5 on 5 sport have anything to do with how a 1 on 1 game would pan out? So we should dismiss anything and everything that has to do with championships or how that player makes the team better.

So that leaves just the facts....You want two of the most dominating players of their time to play against each other and sees what happens. Well seeing as no one, at any time, could guard either one of these gentlemen one on one. DRob with his pure athletic ability would do freakish things (complimented with a very nice fade away). And TDs footwork, IQ, and shooting arsenal (TD does have a sneaky hook shot, flawless bank shot, and a dunk when he wants to) makes him an impossible guard for any one man. Both players made anyone guarding them look foolish and I believe that they would make themselves look like fools just the same if they had to guard each other.

Based on this I would give the following prediction:

Game to 11 would be one 11 - 10 with whoever took the ball out first winning.
Make it Take it would be a skunk for whoever had the ball first.

Anyone remember that old Coke commercial where Bird and Jordan were playing horse??? Same thing.

[Jimcs50]

Lets not forget David has back problems during those games against Hakeem
however I agree Tim would take him because DR never really had "A Shot" and
all you had to do against David was play him physically


He did not have "a shot", he had many many shots. You do not lead the league in scoring without have shots.

There is no way that TD could beat DRob one on one when both players were at the tops of their games.


DRob was much quicker and had more range on his shot, and could out jump TD by at least a foot.

[jcrod]

You know we have a shit load of newbie Spurs fan if they don't give Drob his due.

DROB was once in a lifetime Freak. Only if he had the supporting cast.

[fyatuk]

This is one of the more stupid debates. It's not even a debate. Robinson would destroy Duncan in his prime for sure!. Who do you think taught Duncan half of what he knows?.. Remember, Robinson was as fundamental as he was athletic. And he was one of the most physically fit athletes the game has ever seen! Duncan wouldn't stand a chance. All you haters don't give D-Rob enough credit, which is sad. He's the one that single handedly saved the entire franchise! Show some respect!

Hey now. There's a difference between respect and worship. While I agree Robinson would win, he wouldn't "destroy" Tim. You're forgetting how quick Tim was side to side a few years ago, and that David wasn't exactly a beast at keeping people from backing him down in the post.

It'd be fun to watch.

[fyatuk]

Duncan never had lateral quickness.

The pg you're referencing was Mark Jackson (Kid yesterday). All Mark would do was post up the PG because he was big, but nothing else. So Pop put TD on him knowing he couldn't post him up or drive by him because he also was slow.

It was more than just him. It happened with a few PGs, and Tim's first 2 seasons he often ended up guarding 2 and 3s as well. He certainly wasn't as quick as David/Amare/etc, but he could move really well for a big man his first several years.

[Brutalis]

Sorry but Duncan is better than D-Rob. Duncan is quicker.
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/funny-pictures-lol-squid.jpg

[jcrod]

It was more than just him. It happened with a few PGs, and Tim's first 2 seasons he often ended up guarding 2 and 3s as well. He certainly wasn't as quick as David/Amare/etc, but he could move really well for a big man his first several years.


Uhh, no. name them.

[Supergirl]

Wow, the poll is really neck-and-neck.

[101A]

Duncan got destroyed his rookie season in a All-Star weekend 1-1 match up with Keith Van Horn (yes, there was a "rivalry" for a season in some people's minds)!

No contest in a 1-1 match, really: none.

Robinson wins every one.

Check ball....dribble, step, jump.....dunk.

Repeat.

[Spurminator]

On top of that, David played in probably the most physical and slow paced era in the history of the NBA. If you move his career ten years sooner or ten years later and he'd be unguardable. David in his prime today with the no handchecking rules, charge circle and faster paced games would be unstoppable. He could average 32-34 points if he played today.

While I agree with this, I think Duncan would dominate regardless of the era.

[timvp]

Duncan got destroyed his rookie season in a All-Star weekend 1-1 match up with Keith Van Horn (yes, there was a "rivalry" for a season in some people's minds)!Uh, no. You got that backwards. Duncan beat KVH.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Damn. 92-91 in favor of David.

[50 cent]

Wow....

93 all.

[TampaDude]

DRob made me a Spur... sorry Tim

+1 Duncan is the man now, but DRob is the reason my wife and I are Spurs fans... :toast

[TampaDude]

Wow...94-94...let's just call it a tie...

[mystargtr34]

Though duncan is the better PLAYER ...especially post moves wise ...Admiral would win he has way more athelticisim ...than Timmy ever had was a better shot-blocker, stealer of teh ball ..and those would come in to play more often 1 on 1 every extra possession could mean a basket for Robinson ...and as far as the comments about what Dream did to the Admiral in the WCF Duncan is HOF but he aint no Olajawon ...1 on1 Hakeem shakes em both ...

Hakeem had just as much trouble guarding D-Rob one-on-one as vice versa ... thats a fact.David saw constant double teams in that 95 series and even triple teams on occasions.

[mystargtr34]

Uh, no. You got that backwards. Duncan beat KVH.

Whats this one-on-one game we speak of?

[jcrod]

Wow...94-94...let's just call it a tie...


I would like to know how many newbies we have who didn't see DROB in prime. I would bet the ones who did, voted for Drob over Duncan.

[CharlieMac]

I don't think people remember what an athletic freak DRob was.

[Louae]

Easy, Hakeem. Can't be biased about that. Hakeem was a footwork god.

It didn't hurt that the refs let him change his pivot foot or let him lift it off the ground to get further away on that fade away jumper of his.

[Louae]

Like i said they would both do well off eachother but David is on record as saying that when Tim came up he could not guard him practically at all.

When Tim came up, David was recovering from a bad back.

[ambchang]

The poll results indicate that roughly 50% of Spurs fans have not seen DRob in his prime.

One on one big man, I would put DRob in the same sentence as Hakeem and Wilt, nobody else could even come close.

[101A]

Uh, no. You got that backwards. Duncan beat KVH.Damn, not how I remember it; oh well - wife was 8 months pregnant with #2; maybe that had something to do with it (gonna look it up, however, 'cause I really thought that was how it went)

[Admiral]

Just catching up on old threads and wanted to bump this one. There were some great arguments made all around.

One thing that I find disturbing is the number of Spurs fans who think DRob was just some athletic seven footer who had no skills. You guys do realize that you can't lead the NBA - the most talented basketball league on the planet - in scoring simply by being a good athlete, right? Just because DRob doesn't have the back-to-the-basket game to suit some of you does not mean that he simply ran around everyone. He had a really good jumper, a great first step, good ball handling skills, and some excellent fakes and moves. The athletes in the NBA are way too good for one man to average in the mid-high 20's for 7 seasons simply because he's an "athletic freak." Give the man some credit for being a very gifted basketball player too.

[Solid D]

True, Admiral. Do y'all remember for almost 20 years, the NBA had a Pivotal Player award? It started out being the Schick Pivotal Player Award and then changed sponsors and became the IBM Award. The following mathematical formula was used to determine the winners:

Player pts + reb + ast + stl + bl - pf - to + (team wins X 10) X 250
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Team pts - fga + reb + ast + stl + bl - pf - to

A player's total points, plus rebounds, plus assists, plus steals, plus blocks, minus personal fouls, minus turnovers, plus 10 times the number of his team's wins, times 250. Then divided by the team's total points, plus field goal attempts, plus assists, plus steals, plus blocks, minus personal fouls, minus turnovers.

The award ended just as Tim Duncan was coming into his prime in 2001, so Timmy won the last IBM Award.

Here are the award winners.

Season Player Team
2001-02 Tim Duncan. . . . .San Antonio
2000-01 Shaquille O'Neal. .L.A. Lakers
1999-00 Shaquille O'Neal. .L.A. Lakers
1998-99 Dikembe Mutombo. . Atlanta
1997-98 Karl Malone. . . . Utah
1996-97 Grant Hill. . . . .Detroit
1995-96 David Robinson. . .San Antonio
1994-95 David Robinson. . .San Antonio
1993-94 David Robinson. . .San Antonio
1992-93 Hakeem Olajuwon. . Houston
1991-92 Dennis Rodman. . . Detroit
1990-91 David Robinson. . .San Antonio
1989-90 David Robinson. . .San Antonio
1988-89 Michael Jordan. . .Chicago
1987-88 Charles Barkley. . Philadelphia
1986-87 Charles Barkley. . Philadelphia
1985-86 Charles Barkley. . Philadelphia
1984-85 Michael Jordan. . .Chicago
1983-84 Magic Johnson. . . L.A. Lakers

[koriwhat]

playing skunk is for pussies! you play until you win outright. and i always played up to 12 or 15 in a 1 on 1 scenario.

[dbreiden83080]

When Tim came up, David was recovering from a bad back.

And Duncan was a raw Rookie who had yet to even play an NBA game. Not even close to the powerhouse of dominance he was in his prime year of say 2003.

[century]

This is really stupid. Robinson is a pussy, Duncan is not.

[dbreiden83080]

This is really stupid. Robinson is a pussy, Duncan is not.

:rolleyes

[remingtonbo2001]

David, 11-5.

David was a superior 1 on 1 defender than Duncan ever will be.

I remember David getting burned in the post, still to block the opposition's shot from behind.

David was so quick on his feet, he could block a shot 3-4 times in one possesion.

I think it's safe to say, David was the most athletic center of all-time. In a game of 1 on 1, athleticism wins.

[slayermin]

Since there is no shot clock, TD could just take his time and back Dave down to the low post each time he has the ball. But Dave could just use his superior athleticism and blow by TD unless TD just decides to give him the outside shot.

I think it would be a lot closer than some people think here.

In the end, I will go with the Admiral.

[dbreiden83080]

Since there is no shot clock, TD could just take his time and back Dave down to the low post each time he has the ball. But Dave could just use his superior athleticism and blow by TD unless TD just decides to give him the outside shot.

I think it would be a lot closer than some people think here.

In the end, I will go with the Admiral.

I'm sure they would both get games off eachother. On days Timmy had his jumpshot down and his footwork tight, he'd likely get the better of it. On days where Timmy was a bit off, i'm sure David would use his physical advantages to give Timmy fits. I don't see this as a blowout either way but i do see Timmy as overall being the better basketball player.

[ulosturedge]

Theres too many people here not qualified to answer. If you didn't see David in his prime then you lack information.

It annoys me to no end seeing the same arguments being made in Timmys favor. You can automatically tell alot of them never saw David in his prime.

Quit bringing up the ring argument...

The supporting cast Duncan had compared to Robinson don't compare. Not only that but how about the Coaching? The groundwork and defensive philosphies were already laid out when Duncan joined the team. Robinson went through what like 6 or 7 coaches in his career? Who all had different ideas of how to try and make a championship. The winning recipe for the Spurs took Davids entire career with Pop finally finding something that worked. David was like the guinea pig while Duncan came in and sealed the deal. This man on man defense then playing zone, dump the ball inside then back out, and mixing things up; all this wasn't perfected until near the end of Robinsons career. The way Duncan watches double teams and finds the open man.. do you think he thought of that all himself? Naw it was from years of Pop watching Robinson getting double teamed to death when Pop figured out things needed to be changed up. Thats when Pop tells Tim this is what I want you to do for us.

Also anyone ever think maybe the first Championship is the hardest? After that you just repeat the same philosophies and hope they hold up for the most part. And now you have complete mentality change. From people who have never won a championship(David's career) to people who know what it takes to win and have experience(Tim's career). Two totally different worlds.

I'm 31 and I saw David's entire career as well as Tim's. They both are amazing players. David did things that Tim can't do and Tim does things David can't do. David is no doubt the better athlete while Tim is the more versatile. David has the better defense and dunking power hands down. Tim has the better all around game and a killer instinct in his play.

All I know if you younger guys had the pleasure of seeing DRob play in his prime you would have seen how much of a beast he was. You guys know how people say Spurs are boring to watch with Mr.Fundamental blah blah blah... well that wasn't the case in David's era. The dude was tearing down rims, blocking shots, and just punishing people night after night. I'm glad I had the pleasure to witness it.

I'm just tired of people writing David off. He helped pave the way for the Spurs franchise and he was every bit as good as Tim Duncan as a basketball player. No doubt.

[jack sommerset]

Timmay would win. Can't believe how close the vote is

[urunobili]

If we take both at age 27 at their prime.. i think the Admiral would have lunch on Tim.. he'd win 11-7 probably or something...

[Slippy]

This is a debate i would avoid like the plague. Both guys are special in their own right. One thing we can't ignore. If Dave had teammates like Tony and Manu in his prime, the spurs would have more rings to show-off.

[spursjustice]

I've watched Robinson play from the beginning to the end of his career. Seen Duncan play from his 3rd season at Wake Forest to now. I am comparing both players during their prime.

Duncan had the better fundamental skill set, footwork, superior back-to-the-basket game, ball handling abilities. David had the better face up game (he had the ability to run down the floor, catch a pass and pull up for a jumpshot), his post moves were not as abundant as Duncan's, but he had that beautiful baseline turnaround jumpshot which was more than useful. Then there's his freakish athletic ability... I think, David is the better scorer which is due to his superior athletic ability but, Duncan is the better offensive player because of his polished post moves. Duncan could have probably averaged as many points as David if he wanted too... but we all know that's not his style and this is besides the point...

Defensively, Duncan uses his high basketball IQ and guards to lane. He usually plays the percentages and uses his exceptional timing to block and defend shots. Robinson too guards the lane. He also has a high bball IQ. However, I've seen him guard a PG in isolation sets that resulted in a steal or block to David on numerous occasions. This basically mean, David not only had the size and length to disrupt Tim's post moves, but the quickness, speed and strength to stay in front of Tim after some fancy footwork. Duncan on the other hand doesn't really have the quickness to stay with Dave. I am guessing that he would probably play the percentages and give Dave some space. In which Dave would probably exploit.

It's a tough one but I think Dave wins 11-9...

[Brutalis]

This is really stupid. Robinson is a pussy, Duncan is not.

:rollin



David was so quick on his feet, he could block a shot 3-4 times in one possesion.

Saw him do that several times. The energy you have to muster to get up over and over was amazing.

[Brutalis]

Considering D-Rob taught Duncan half of everything he probably knows, I am reminded of Obi Wan and Anakin.

And nevermind!

[Kobe24Forever]

One would only have to reference the 1995 playoffs when Hakeem school David in his MVP year. Tim would have the same effect with his footwork and solid fundamentals.

Despite all of his talents, David never had a go to offensive move. Tim would win probably 11-6, probably worse if make it take was in action.

Tim is Mr Fundamental, pretty much what Robinson was, but Robinson is more athletic, they play equally good defense in some ways, Hakeem would take Duncan to school just like he did to Robinson simply because he has a jumper, and a wider repertoire of offensive moves than both combined, you can't call Hakeem Fundamental because he's not, he's unpredictable and don't rely on bank shots. :blah

[mrspurs]

Timmy would only dream of being as quick as Drob. Drob was a better scorer, rebounder, shot blocker. Drob is also twice as smart. Timmy is lucky to have played next to Drob. Now in todays NBA, Timmy could really use someone like Drob. Timmy doesnt play well when left alone like these past couple of seasons. Having Fab and Kurt=playing alone.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Timmy is lucky to have played next to Drob. Now in todays NBA, Timmy could really use someone like Drob.

Who wouldn't?

[Admidave50]

Damn I missed this poll that was really closed.

I would have voted for my man The Admiral for sure!

[21+20+9=50]

Did you guys forget what Hakeem did to David Robinson in the playoffs, Duncan in his prime was kind of like that, so i would say Duncan over DROB both being in their prime...

[Rynospursfan]

Damn I missed this poll that was really closed.

I would have voted for my man The Admiral for sure!

Me too. Tim would have to resort to packing it in and giving Dave the mid range shot, he might even have to start jacking up some twos to catch up. David is the better one on one player. Tim is the better team player.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

There's a huge difference between a real game, where a low-post player can set up on the block and then get fed the ball, and a 1-on-1 game, where you have to get there yourself from the top of the key. It wouldn't be easy, and I loves me some Timmah, but I think Five-Oh has the edge in this fantasy scenario: he was longer, quicker, and a bit stronger, with insane hops. DRob could take more chances on D and recover more quickly, and get more rebounds with his length and quickness. And don't forget the 71-pt. game.
Fun to imagine, but I'm just glad they were both on our side.

Of course, in the context of real NBA ball games, Timmy is the better offensive player, and DRob said so himself more than once.


David.

Duncan couldn't have guarded David. David was faster than Dirk and Duncan can't guard Dirk. And David could have defended Duncan and lot better than Duncan could have defended him...

As for Hakeem, he didn't just do that to David, he did it to everyone, and he'd have done it to Duncan if Duncan had been around.

Plus...Hakeem didn't score as many points on David as Amare scored on Tim...

Watching Duncan guard Amare is a pretty good indicator of what it would have been like for Duncan to guard David...

Except for the fact that David is bigger, stronger, can jump higher, and dunk better than Amare.

Plus he's about one million times the defender Amare is.

That David didn't have go to offensive move is ludicrous, the man won a scoring title and dropped 71 points in a game. The only people that say he couldn't score are people that never saw him play. He could score. In fact he was one of the best scoring bigmen in NBA history.

He scored more points at a higher PCT than Duncan did through the first 7 years of his career.


I've watched Robinson play from the beginning to the end of his career. Seen Duncan play from his 3rd season at Wake Forest to now. I am comparing both players during their prime.

Duncan had the better fundamental skill set, footwork, superior back-to-the-basket game, ball handling abilities. David had the better face up game (he had the ability to run down the floor, catch a pass and pull up for a jumpshot), his post moves were not as abundant as Duncan's, but he had that beautiful baseline turnaround jumpshot which was more than useful. Then there's his freakish athletic ability... I think, David is the better scorer which is due to his superior athletic ability but, Duncan is the better offensive player because of his polished post moves. Duncan could have probably averaged as many points as David if he wanted too... but we all know that's not his style and this is besides the point...

Defensively, Duncan uses his high basketball IQ and guards to lane. He usually plays the percentages and uses his exceptional timing to block and defend shots. Robinson too guards the lane. He also has a high bball IQ. However, I've seen him guard a PG in isolation sets that resulted in a steal or block to David on numerous occasions. This basically mean, David not only had the size and length to disrupt Tim's post moves, but the quickness, speed and strength to stay in front of Tim after some fancy footwork. Duncan on the other hand doesn't really have the quickness to stay with Dave. I am guessing that he would probably play the percentages and give Dave some space. In which Dave would probably exploit.

It's a tough one but I think Dave wins 11-9...

Now those were three great posts. :toast

I say TD 15-14 - he is a cleaner ball handler than David ever was, and that's crucial in 1-on-1. Sadly, I think Hakeem might do them both, but only in epic matches. Add Shaq and Patrick as the whipping boys, and that would be one helluva 1-on-1 tourney! :tu :D

BTW, I think some of your are forgetting just how quick and athletic the young, pre-serious injury Timmy D was. Go back and watch his first 4 seasons.

[Phenomanul]

Did you guys forget what Hakeem did to David Robinson in the playoffs, Duncan in his prime was kind of like that, so i would say Duncan over DROB both being in their prime...


One series does not define their caliber.

I guess many people forget that Robinson had his share of dunks over Hakeem in that series; only reason that tidbit of history is forgotten is that the Spurs lost the series.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Tim is Mr Fundamental, pretty much what Robinson was, but Robinson is more athletic, they play equally good defense in some ways, Hakeem would take Duncan to school just like he did to Robinson simply because he has a jumper, and a wider repertoire of offensive moves than both combined, you can't call Hakeem Fundamental because he's not, he's unpredictable and don't rely on bank shots. :blah

i dont think duncan would get schooled like drob

duncan doesnt jump on every pumpfake like drob does...

[duncan228]

BTW, I think some of your are forgetting just how quick and athletic the young, pre-serious injury Timmy D was. Go back and watch his first 4 seasons.

Thanks Ruff. I agree that lots of people aren't giving Robinson the credit he's due, but the flip of that is that some are forgetting how outstanding Duncan was in his prime. His back-to-back MVP seasons alone shouldn't be discounted. He did something incredible in '03, with his second regular season MVP, the Championship, and the Finals MVP. It was an amazing year.

And re-watching Duncan in his prime is always a good idea. :)

[duncan228]

Oh, and a minor correction. It's not Mr. Fundamental, it's The Big Fundamental. :)

[Brutalis]

Oh, and a minor correction. It's not Mr. Fundamental, it's The Big Fundamental. :)

D-Rob called him Mr. Fundamental in a post game interview in 2003. I forget what game but it was on ESPN.

Oh and since this is my poll and thread, I officially make the results 105-105 because of the two posters above. :D

[HarlemHeat37]

Robinson is probably the most underrated superstar player in NBA history..definitely underappreciated..

talent-wise? I'll go with Robinson..I don't think there are many big men that have been more talented than David Robinson..he's probably a top 5 defensive player of all-time as well..unbelievable build and athleticism, underrated jump shot, great team player..

who I would take on my team? Tim Duncan..I know a lot of Spurs fans don't like to admit this, but Dave was a choker..it's sad, but he WAS when you compare him to the other greats..looking at his playoff numbers compared to his regular season numbers, David Robinson had many playoff moments where he choked..he had many games IN HIS PRIME where he didn't come up big for our team..

don't give me the supporting cast argument..that doesn't explain Tim's killer instinct..it appears that many people see the names "Parker and Ginobili" and forget how good they actually were in 2003..not very good..Duncan led an average supporting cast(in comparison to other championship teams) to a title..the rest of the team shot around 41%(IIRC) in the playoffs, while Tim led our team in PPG, RPG, APG, BPG and 2nd in FG%..the guy absolutely carried a team with NO other player that was even NEARLY all-star caliber and he won us a title..he had one of the most dominant finals of all-time..that's Tim's killer instinct right there..that's Duncan at his finest..that's why we trust him..

[Slippy]

don't give me the supporting cast argument..that doesn't explain Tim's killer instinct..it appears that many people see the names "Parker and Ginobili" and forget how good they actually were in 2003..not very good..Duncan led an average supporting cast(in comparison to other championship teams) to a title..the rest of the team shot around 41%(IIRC) in the playoffs, while Tim led our team in PPG, RPG, APG, BPG and 2nd in FG%..the guy absolutely carried a team with NO other player that was even NEARLY all-star caliber and he won us a title..he had one of the most dominant finals of all-time..that's Tim's killer instinct right there..that's Duncan at his finest..that's why we trust him..

Not downplaying Duncan's contribution in 03 just that you're the one forgetting how good that team was. We have seen a number of centers tried out since then and none of them have come close to replacing the DROB of 03. SJax and Bruce Bowen are certainly not your average players and Speedy claxton to this day is the best back-up PG the Spurs have had in backing up Parker. Then look at the list of other back-ups Danny Ferry, Steve Smith, Steve Kerr, Kevin Willis and Malik Rose. You want veteran leadership, shooting ability or energy it was all covered. Of all the championship teams the 03 team was the best.

[baseline bum]

Wow. How the hell is this poll close? Duncan by a mile.

EDIT: My bad, didn't see this was for a 1 on 1 game.

[ambchang]

Just because Duncan was great in the playoffs doesn't mean Robinson choked in the playoffs.
I really don't want to pull out all the numbers in his supposedly choked playoffs out and let you know that it was strictly against the Jazz and Rockets, where they had a very different way of defending the Spurs, that Robinson's numbers declined.

[HarlemHeat37]

Not downplaying Duncan's contribution in 03 just that you're the one forgetting how good that team was. We have seen a number of centers tried out since then and none of them have come close to replacing the DROB of 03. SJax and Bruce Bowen are certainly not your average players and Speedy claxton to this day is the best back-up PG the Spurs have had in backing up Parker. Then look at the list of other back-ups Danny Ferry, Steve Smith, Steve Kerr, Kevin Willis and Malik Rose. You want veteran leadership, shooting ability or energy it was all covered. Of all the championship teams the 03 team was the best.

the team was full of great ROLE PLAYERS..but how many teams in NBA history have won titles without a 2nd all-star caliber player? not many..the only one's that have in the 90's and 2000's were Hakeem's 1st, and Duncan's 2003 team..that speaks volumes on how much Tim carried this team..

it's IMPOSSIBLE to win a title with a poor supporting cast, or even average..I'm comparing it to OTHER title teams, where Duncan's supporting cast clearly pales in comparison..

just look at the playoff numbers..out of the guys that played over 100 minutes in the playoffs..

Tony Parker: 40% FG
Stephen Jackson: 41% FG
Manu Ginobili: 38.5% FG
Malik Rose: 42% FG
Bruce Bowen: 37% FG
Speedy Claxton: 44% FG
Danny Ferry: 29% FG

David Robinson was the only one with a great FG%, and he even missed a game in these playoffs..

Tim played 9 minutes per game more than any other player on the team..he averaged 10 more PPG than any other player..he averaged 9 more RPG than any other player..he averaged 2 more APG than any other player..he averaged around 2 more BPG than any other player..

this is a guy that was the focus of the defense every game, with no 2nd option to relieve pressure in most of the games..Tim was being double teamed and still dominated, and that's where his teammates contributions kicked in..

just some random Tim games in those playoffs..

game 1 of the NBA finals: 32 PTS, 20 REBS, 7 BLKS, 6 ASTS, 3 STLS, 11-17
game 6 NBA finals: 21 PTS, 20 REBS, 10 ASTS, 8 BLKS
game 1 vs. Dallas: 40 PTS, 15 REBS, 7 ASTS, 14-20
game 2 vs. Dallas: 32 PTS, 15 REBS, 5 ASTS, 3 BLKS
game 3 vs. Dallas: 34 PTS, 24 REBS, 6 ASTS, 6 BLKS, 2 STLS
game 4 vs. Dallas: 21 PTS, 20 REBS, 7 ASTS, 4 BLKS
game 4 vs. LA: 36 PTS, 9 REBS, 5 ASTS, 16-20 FT
game 6 vs. LA: 37 PTS, 16 REBS, 4 ASTS, 2 BLKS
game 5 vs. Phoenix: 23 PTS, 17 REBS, 6 ASTS, 5 BLKS
game 6 vs. Phoenix: 15 PTS, 20 REBS, 10 ASTS, 5 BLKS

these are just the completely dominant games, where he dominated every part of the game..not counting the great games he had, just the dominance..people forget how dominant Tim was in his prime..this was a time where he didn't have anybody else that could consistently create for themselves..where he completely dominated every team on both sides of the floor, drew double teams and got his teammates involved..he did absolutely everything on the floor at an elite level..

the difference between Tim and David, is that Tim in his prime was always reliable in the playoffs..

[Slippy]

the team was full of great ROLE PLAYERS..but how many teams in NBA history have won titles without a 2nd all-star caliber player? not many..the only one's that have in the 90's and 2000's were Hakeem's 1st, and Duncan's 2003 team..that speaks volumes on how much Tim carried this team..

it's IMPOSSIBLE to win a title with a poor supporting cast, or even average..I'm comparing it to OTHER title teams, where Duncan's supporting cast clearly pales in comparison..

just look at the playoff numbers..out of the guys that played over 100 minutes in the playoffs..

Tony Parker: 40% FG
Stephen Jackson: 41% FG
Manu Ginobili: 38.5% FG
Malik Rose: 42% FG
Bruce Bowen: 37% FG
Speedy Claxton: 44% FG
Danny Ferry: 29% FG

David Robinson was the only one with a great FG%, and he even missed a game in these playoffs..

Tim played 9 minutes per game more than any other player on the team..he averaged 10 more PPG than any other player..he averaged 9 more RPG than any other player..he averaged 2 more APG than any other player..he averaged around 2 more BPG than any other player..

this is a guy that was the focus of the defense every game, with no 2nd option to relieve pressure in most of the games..Tim was being double teamed and still dominated, and that's where his teammates contributions kicked in..

just some random Tim games in those playoffs..

game 1 of the NBA finals: 32 PTS, 20 REBS, 7 BLKS, 6 ASTS, 3 STLS, 11-17
game 6 NBA finals: 21 PTS, 20 REBS, 10 ASTS, 8 BLKS
game 1 vs. Dallas: 40 PTS, 15 REBS, 7 ASTS, 14-20
game 2 vs. Dallas: 32 PTS, 15 REBS, 5 ASTS, 3 BLKS
game 3 vs. Dallas: 34 PTS, 24 REBS, 6 ASTS, 6 BLKS, 2 STLS
game 4 vs. Dallas: 21 PTS, 20 REBS, 7 ASTS, 4 BLKS
game 4 vs. LA: 36 PTS, 9 REBS, 5 ASTS, 16-20 FT
game 6 vs. LA: 37 PTS, 16 REBS, 4 ASTS, 2 BLKS
game 5 vs. Phoenix: 23 PTS, 17 REBS, 6 ASTS, 5 BLKS
game 6 vs. Phoenix: 15 PTS, 20 REBS, 10 ASTS, 5 BLKS

these are just the completely dominant games, where he dominated every part of the game..not counting the great games he had, just the dominance..people forget how dominant Tim was in his prime..this was a time where he didn't have anybody else that could consistently create for themselves..where he completely dominated every team on both sides of the floor, drew double teams and got his teammates involved..he did absolutely everything on the floor at an elite level..

the difference between Tim and David, is that Tim in his prime was always reliable in the playoffs..

Not disputing Tim's dominance just the burden he took on compared to other championship teams. FG percentages and role playing aren't indicitive of how deep and talented that 03 team was. They all stepped up when it mattered.

Tim, had other scorers in SJax, Parker and Manu to share the load. He had shooters knock down big shots giving him the space and freedom to dominate with single coverage. On the defensive end he had Dave anchoring the middle guarding key bigs, in turn helping him avoid foul trouble and flourish as a help defender. Can't discount the presense of Bruce Bowen on the perimeter either. To top it off, the team had energy guys in Speedy, Manu and Malik all have key moments to pick up the pace.

These aspects are contributions that have been missing in recent failures. Individually the stats may not back it up but as a collective whole the 03 team just beat you down.

[Phenomanul]

the team was full of great ROLE PLAYERS..but how many teams in NBA history have won titles without a 2nd all-star caliber player? not many..the only one's that have in the 90's and 2000's were Hakeem's 1st, and Duncan's 2003 team..that speaks volumes on how much Tim carried this team..

it's IMPOSSIBLE to win a title with a poor supporting cast, or even average..I'm comparing it to OTHER title teams, where Duncan's supporting cast clearly pales in comparison..

just look at the playoff numbers..out of the guys that played over 100 minutes in the playoffs..

Tony Parker: 40% FG
Stephen Jackson: 41% FG
Manu Ginobili: 38.5% FG
Malik Rose: 42% FG
Bruce Bowen: 37% FG
Speedy Claxton: 44% FG
Danny Ferry: 29% FG

David Robinson was the only one with a great FG%, and he even missed a game in these playoffs..

Tim played 9 minutes per game more than any other player on the team..he averaged 10 more PPG than any other player..he averaged 9 more RPG than any other player..he averaged 2 more APG than any other player..he averaged around 2 more BPG than any other player..

this is a guy that was the focus of the defense every game, with no 2nd option to relieve pressure in most of the games..Tim was being double teamed and still dominated, and that's where his teammates contributions kicked in..

just some random Tim games in those playoffs..

game 1 of the NBA finals: 32 PTS, 20 REBS, 7 BLKS, 6 ASTS, 3 STLS, 11-17
game 6 NBA finals: 21 PTS, 20 REBS, 10 ASTS, 8 BLKS
game 1 vs. Dallas: 40 PTS, 15 REBS, 7 ASTS, 14-20
game 2 vs. Dallas: 32 PTS, 15 REBS, 5 ASTS, 3 BLKS
game 3 vs. Dallas: 34 PTS, 24 REBS, 6 ASTS, 6 BLKS, 2 STLS
game 4 vs. Dallas: 21 PTS, 20 REBS, 7 ASTS, 4 BLKS
game 4 vs. LA: 36 PTS, 9 REBS, 5 ASTS, 16-20 FT
game 6 vs. LA: 37 PTS, 16 REBS, 4 ASTS, 2 BLKS
game 5 vs. Phoenix: 23 PTS, 17 REBS, 6 ASTS, 5 BLKS
game 6 vs. Phoenix: 15 PTS, 20 REBS, 10 ASTS, 5 BLKS

these are just the completely dominant games, where he dominated every part of the game..not counting the great games he had, just the dominance..people forget how dominant Tim was in his prime..this was a time where he didn't have anybody else that could consistently create for themselves..where he completely dominated every team on both sides of the floor, drew double teams and got his teammates involved..he did absolutely everything on the floor at an elite level..

the difference between Tim and David, is that Tim in his prime was always reliable in the playoffs..

Great summary....

All I have to say is that the Spurs probably don't get that ring if SJax doesn't hit clutch threes in the Dallas series... or how about that gem from Steve Kerr in the clincher of that same series... Or Ginobili's game turning steal/breakaway dunk/dagger 3 against the Nets in the Finals. Or even Robinson's 13 point, 17 rebound, 2 block performance in the Finals clincher. Tim's teammates stepped up when it mattered. David's never did.

If David didn't have better playoff statistics it's only because none of his teammates could ever open up the floor to keep the defense honest.... especially in the clutch. His playoff failures don't define his true caliber as a player.

I love Tim to death... but in a one on one, both in their primes constest, David would beat Tim. There's no doubt in my mind that this would be the outcome.

Having said that; "It's all speculative anyways..."

[SpurSupremacist]

IF it makes you guys feel any better...DRob might be the last guy I'd ever pick as a GM or coach...and Duncan would be among the first(out of bigmen, I take him after I take Horry)

I regret to inform you that your credibility has been foreclosed.

[Manufan909]

Just to prevent you from getting raped by whottt, he meant to COACH OR MANAGE. not if he was coach or gm, and was looking for players.

[Brutalis]

Not disputing Tim's dominance just the burden he took on compared to other championship teams. FG percentages and role playing aren't indicitive of how deep and talented that 03 team was. They all stepped up when it mattered.

Tim, had other scorers in SJax, Parker and Manu to share the load. He had shooters knock down big shots giving him the space and freedom to dominate with single coverage. On the defensive end he had Dave anchoring the middle guarding key bigs, in turn helping him avoid foul trouble and flourish as a help defender. Can't discount the presense of Bruce Bowen on the perimeter either. To top it off, the team had energy guys in Speedy, Manu and Malik all have key moments to pick up the pace.

These aspects are contributions that have been missing in recent failures. Individually the stats may not back it up but as a collective whole the 03 team just beat you down.

My thoughts exactly.

[SpurSupremacist]

It's Duncan, hands down.

Blah blah blah, Robinson didn't have the teammates. Neither did Allen Iverson. He gets traded to the Nuggets, they're sure to win now! Right? Yeah. Cry me a river, man. He didn't have what it takes. Tim does.

In 2003, he took a bunch of rookies to a championship, against one of the biggest powerhouses in NBA history... and he dominated them. Robinson? He got absolutely obliterated by Hakeem and was shown who the real MVP was.

And don't give the bullshit excuse that Robinson didn't care, and he was such a great guy. If he was, he would never have tried to score 70 to win the scoring title. You think Duncan would have done that? Hardly. You know why? Duncan has rings, he doesn't care(or NEED TO CARE) about the regular season. D-Rob had no 'next level' in the playoffs. Sorry, but that's where names are made... in the playoffs. If you ask who is a better quarterback all-time Marino or Montana, 90% of people would say Montana. Why? Because 1A in sports greatness is how many championships you've won.

Bottom line, 11-9. Duncan. I calculated the score by how many more rings Duncan has than Robinson. I could have increased it by 1, on the count of coat-tailing, but decided not to.

[SpurSupremacist]

Just to prevent you from getting raped by whottt, he meant to COACH OR MANAGE. not if he was coach or gm, and was looking for players.

I realize that. Have you not heard Horry speak? His IQ is probably somewhere in the range of 70 or 75.

[kingmalaki]

I think Robinson wins in a game of 1-1. He is just too quick for Duncan. Not to mention Robinson was a better defender, so I can see him stopping Tim more than Tim could stop him.

Now if we are talking about who I would rather have leading my team, then it's clearly Duncan. Robinson was a stat-filler, but he kinda reminds me of KG in that his back-to-the basket game wasn't elite, and that really showed in the postseason where he wasn't the same effective scorer. Duncan has a history of stepping up when it matters most (individually...since everyone keeps noting the teammate difference). Robinson doesn't. Robinson had a lot of bad postseason games, and I can only recall one series where he went ape-sh&% on the opposition...against the Suns in 96:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1996.html

Duncan and Hakeem went bonkers on the opposition quite often.....

[ambchang]

It's Duncan, hands down.

Blah blah blah, Robinson didn't have the teammates. Neither did Allen Iverson. He gets traded to the Nuggets, they're sure to win now! Right? Yeah. Cry me a river, man. He didn't have what it takes. Tim does.

In 2003, he took a bunch of rookies to a championship, against one of the biggest powerhouses in NBA history... and he dominated them. Robinson? He got absolutely obliterated by Hakeem and was shown who the real MVP was.

And don't give the bullshit excuse that Robinson didn't care, and he was such a great guy. If he was, he would never have tried to score 70 to win the scoring title. You think Duncan would have done that? Hardly. You know why? Duncan has rings, he doesn't care(or NEED TO CARE) about the regular season. D-Rob had no 'next level' in the playoffs. Sorry, but that's where names are made... in the playoffs. If you ask who is a better quarterback all-time Marino or Montana, 90% of people would say Montana. Why? Because 1A in sports greatness is how many championships you've won.

Bottom line, 11-9. Duncan. I calculated the score by how many more rings Duncan has than Robinson. I could have increased it by 1, on the count of coat-tailing, but decided not to.

Proof that some Spurs fans are idiots too.