D'antoni finally gives in, changes offense for Shaq

[Jeremy]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0321suns.html

And all the sudden we're on a 6-game winning streak. If only he had listened to all of us weeks ago...

[JMarkJohns]

In my opinion, he hasn't changed it enough. I'd like to see a little more halfcourt prep with the starting unit on the floor. It will benefit Shaq, keep defenses honest on Amare and keep Nash rested for spurts.

[JackArse]

i still think that he was willing to make the change the moment he got here, but needed to work on the offensive sets in practice first, so for the first few games they kept the normal sets just so the other guys weren't too confused.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

He probably still thinks in the back of his mind that the old way is better.

[JackArse]

they have more fast break points now than they did before.

[Mikhail]

I'ts not just D. It's Nash. People who argued "suns are done" based on a few games are and were idiots. Best PG since Stockton, um, you have to figure Nash would come to terms with the new addition in Shaq. It was just a matter of time. And he has, or is in the process of. Let this be a lesson for all Kobe nut hugging peeps with low b-ball IQ's. Kids, b-ball isn't just about dunking and flash.

Some have argued that Nash is the most creative passer in NBA history. I agree. How 'bout shooting?

From the Espy board:

"I was talking to my brother about this the other day. He pointed out that statistically Nash is doing things that have never, ever, been done in terms of EFG% from the field, volume of jump shots, combined with an extremely low assisted rate. There is no precedent for this sort of shooting.

Nash obviously has an extremely pure stroke, but he seems to have absolutely mastered it these days. It's not as if he's sitting in the corners waiting for his teammates to get him a wide open jump shot. This year Hollinger argued that he was now the greatest shooter in NBA history and Hollinger is a big Nash critic.

I think we all take his shooting for granted. This year he has struggled with consistent energy either due to age or perhaps mental fatigue (he has greatly improved since Shaq arrived) when compared to guys like Paul and Williams, yet I still think we take his shooting for granted.

Players with high EFG% on jump shots and their assisted rate :

Ray Allen: 51.6% (69% assisted)
Posey : 53.9% (90% )
Matt Carroll: 52.5% (85% )
Daniel Gibson: 61.% (76%)
Anthony Parker: 56.3% (79%)
Jason Kapono: 56% (83%)
S. Vujacic: 56.5% (91%)
K. Korver: 57% (94%)
Caldron: 56.6 (37%)
Barbosa: 51% (72%)
Nash: 60.4% (24%)

Nash is an anomaly. He's a ridiculously efficient shooter who doesn't sit in the corner and take wide open 3s (eg. Gibson) or take a low volume of threes like Calderon.

Gibson for example only makes 41.7% of his two point jump shots while Nash leads the entire NBA in that category.

For example, Gibson has taken 43.3% of his threes from the corners.

Kapono is at 53.1%.
Korver is at 56.5%
Anthony Parker is at 63.3%
Vujacic is at a low 28.3%
Ray Allen is at an impressive 26.6% ( which helps to explain his overall relatively inefficient shooting).
Nash?
6.6% !

He combines the shooting efficiency of an easy-look jump shooting specialist with the degree of difficulty of a low percentage volume bailout shooter . It's really quite remarkable. Those who understand what Nash does aren't surprised that Suns could win without Amare and now without Marion, yet seem to fall apart whenever Nash is out."

Watch out kids. Nash is on the hunt.

[mojorizen7]

D'Antoni HAD to adjust because if he wasn't willing to change it up, this IMO would have been(and still may be)his last year as HC.

[Findog]

I'ts not just D. It's Nash. People who argued "suns are done" based on a few games are and were idiots. Best PG since Stockton, um, you have to figure Nash would come to terms with the new addition in Shaq. It was just a matter of time. And he has, or is in the process of. Let this be a lesson for all Kobe nut hugging peeps with low b-ball IQ's. Kids, b-ball isn't just about dunking and flash.

Some have argued that Nash is the most creative passer in NBA history. I agree. How 'bout shooting?

From the Espy board:

"I was talking to my brother about this the other day. He pointed out that statistically Nash is doing things that have never, ever, been done in terms of EFG% from the field, volume of jump shots, combined with an extremely low assisted rate. There is no precedent for this sort of shooting.

Nash obviously has an extremely pure stroke, but he seems to have absolutely mastered it these days. It's not as if he's sitting in the corners waiting for his teammates to get him a wide open jump shot. This year Hollinger argued that he was now the greatest shooter in NBA history and Hollinger is a big Nash critic.

I think we all take his shooting for granted. This year he has struggled with consistent energy either due to age or perhaps mental fatigue (he has greatly improved since Shaq arrived) when compared to guys like Paul and Williams, yet I still think we take his shooting for granted.

Players with high EFG% on jump shots and their assisted rate :

Ray Allen: 51.6% (69% assisted)
Posey : 53.9% (90% )
Matt Carroll: 52.5% (85% )
Daniel Gibson: 61.% (76%)
Anthony Parker: 56.3% (79%)
Jason Kapono: 56% (83%)
S. Vujacic: 56.5% (91%)
K. Korver: 57% (94%)
Caldron: 56.6 (37%)
Barbosa: 51% (72%)
Nash: 60.4% (24%)

Nash is an anomaly. He's a ridiculously efficient shooter who doesn't sit in the corner and take wide open 3s (eg. Gibson) or take a low volume of threes like Calderon.

Gibson for example only makes 41.7% of his two point jump shots while Nash leads the entire NBA in that category.

For example, Gibson has taken 43.3% of his threes from the corners.

Kapono is at 53.1%.
Korver is at 56.5%
Anthony Parker is at 63.3%
Vujacic is at a low 28.3%
Ray Allen is at an impressive 26.6% ( which helps to explain his overall relatively inefficient shooting).
Nash?
6.6% !

He combines the shooting efficiency of an easy-look jump shooting specialist with the degree of difficulty of a low percentage volume bailout shooter . It's really quite remarkable. Those who understand what Nash does aren't surprised that Suns could win without Amare and now without Marion, yet seem to fall apart whenever Nash is out."

Watch out kids. Nash is on the hunt.

That's great. Now tell me how a team like the Suns and their atrocious defense is going to beat the following teams in the playoffs:

Lakers, Jazz, Spurs, Hornets, Pistons and Celtics.

The Suns have as good a chance to win a title as the Mavericks, which is to say none.

[Indazone]

haha nice of you to say that the Mavericks have a chance.

They don't.

[Findog]

haha nice of you to say that the Mavericks have a chance.

They don't.

Did you read that post?

You know what they say, Three's Company, so there's room for the Rockets as well.

[Mikhail]

That's great. Now tell me how a team like the Suns and their atrocious defense is going to beat the following teams in the playoffs:

Lakers, Jazz, Spurs, Hornets, Pistons and Celtics.

I'm concerned about the Jazz and Pistons. The rest -- not. Suns would have taken the chip last year but for Stern-ish interference. In fact, if it weren't for injuries Suns would be a dynasty.

In any case, they are now better built to withstand the Bowen's of the league. Shouldn't be a problem. Lakers might win a few years from now, ditto Hornets. I don't see the Celts overcoming the Pistons; if they do, more's the luck. Suns can take Celts easy.

[JackArse]

lakers, spurs, hornets, detroit, and GS if we meet them in the first round is who i worry about, not necessarily in that order.

the spurs, if they play the way they are right now.. no issue, but if they pick it up like they usually do, then i'm worried, especially if they get the refs on their side.. as usual. hornets are just a buzzsaw right now as are the lakers. the lakers though.. i think will get easier in a series, since you can see their tendancies better.

[Findog]

I'm concerned about the Jazz and Pistons.

I think there's a few other teams you need to be worried about.


Suns would have taken the chip last year but for Stern-ish interference.

That's a pathetic cop-out. Steve Kerr would not have made the Shaq trade if he believed that. The Spurs went 3-2 against the Amare-fortified Suns. If Phoenix were a championship team, they would've won Game 6 when facing elimination.


In fact, if it weren't for injuries Suns would be a dynasty.

If the Suns had been a good defensive team, they would be a dynasty. It's real easy to roll up 120 points a game on the weak sisters of the league. That offense is really difficult to prepare for during the regular season. But good defensive teams have been able to bottle them up.


In any case, they are now better built to withstand the Bowen's of the league.

But that's not why you made the trade. The Suns were not a good rebounding team and they couldn't get stops inside. Shaq helps with that. What makes it a risky gamble is that Marion is such a great all-around defender who took turns spelling Nash and Raja when it came to guarding perimeter players.

[Findog]

Suns can take Celts easy.

The Celtics are a great defensive team, the Suns rely on just outscoring teams. There's not going to be anything easy about beating the Celtics. I'd give them the edge against Phoenix.

[Mikhail]

lakers, spurs, hornets, detroit, and GS if we meet them in the first round is who i worry about, not necessarily in that order.

Hornets present a matchup problem but we'll take 'em over 7. CP may have modeled his game after Nash (by his own admission) but he's a pale comparison. Fanboys think CP is all the rage: let's see how he pans out in the playoffs. Nash schools him in shooting, clutch and passing.

Spurs are old and done. Manu can flop to his little heart's content. Won't matter.

Lakers are a bunch of misfits led by an egoist rapist; to quote Barkley on Vince Carter: "Half man, half injured-all-the-time". They'll have their day in the Sun, unfortunately. But it won't be this year.

G.S. is a poor man's Suns.

Again we're left with Detroit and Utah.

[Mikhail]

The Celtics are a great defensive team, the Suns rely on just outscoring teams. There's not going to be anything easy about beating the Celtics. I'd give them the edge against Phoenix.

I'm not impressed with the Celtics. At All. Suns slapped 'em around with Shaq a game or two in. Amare OWNS Kevin. Suns in five, six at most.

[Mikhail]

That's a pathetic cop-out. Steve Kerr would not have made the Shaq trade if he believed that. The Spurs went 3-2 against the Amare-fortified Suns. If Phoenix were a championship team, they would've won Game 6 when facing elimination.

Suns need(ed) to play lights out to beat the Spurs small ball. Still would have clocked 'em but for the suspensions. Prior to to the hip check the Suns had the momentum. Stern completely changed that. Non-homerish fans recognize this. It's pretty obvious.


But that's not why you made the trade. The Suns were not a good rebounding team and they couldn't get stops inside. Shaq helps with that. What makes it a risky gamble is that Marion is such a great all-around defender who took turns spelling Nash and Raja when it came to guarding perimeter players.

Marion invariably dissappeared in the playoffs anyway. No big loss.

[Methusaleh]

Nash obviously has an extremely pure stroke, but he seems to have absolutely mastered it these days.

I found it highly interesting to hear Charles and the TNT gang claim Nash wasn't a "pure shooter" but rather a "streak shooter" during last month's all-star weekend.

Over the past several seasons, when Nash has felt good (as evidenced by the fluidity of movement on the floor) his shot has been gold. When he's been feeling the back/hamstring problem, the shot has noticeably faltered. Maybe this is what Charles and Kenny were trying to pick up on with their "expert" analysis?

[Mikhail]

I found it highly interesting to hear Charles and the TNT gang claim Nash wasn't a "pure shooter" but rather a "streak shooter" during last month's all-star weekend.

Couple of dolts. Six-year-old kids may take them seriously but for the rest they're comic relief and little more. Nash sucked balls in the 3 point contest but who gives a shit. He went down there to help build a house. It's what happens on the court that matters, and Nash is arguably the greatest shooter in the league. Don't get me started on his passing. I can't describe it without comparisons to high art.

Very few fans understand how special Nash is. They're impressed with windmill dunks and Kobe-ish 60 point games (plus 70 bricks). I mentioned art. Most great artists aren't appreciated until they're gone. So it may be with Nash.

[ElNono]

Spurs are old and done. Manu can flop to his little heart's content. Won't matter.

Wow, this from a homer whose team just traded for one of the oldest player in the league to take them to the next level.

I mean, didn't we hear this last year?

Suns homers are back! I wonder how long until da_suns_fan shows up again.

[JMarkJohns]

Suns homers are back! I wonder how long until da_suns_fan shows up again.

You stole my thunder. I was busy searching for the following...

http://blogs.tampabay.com/photos/uncategorized/poltergeist.jpg

*As a Suns fan, I reserve the right to be critical of both player and coach, management and message board fans. If this is a problem, then put me on ignore.

What is up with this whole "Jim Rome Smack Off" type of message board poster? It's OK to show intelligence as opposed to this "inpenetrable shield" type of post where you make a blanket, outlandish statement, become defined by said statement and your subsequent defense of statement and then become the hard-edged village idiot, strong in opinion but weak in support.

[mojorizen7]

Who's a Suns homer?

[Shred]

Suns = Dunzo.

Surely Johnny Ringo lurks around here somewhere, he'll back me up on this.

[JMarkJohns]

Who's a Suns homer?

Have you read Mikhail's posts in this thread? Then there's the ever excitable, never lowercased SHAQOWNSDUNCAN and his capitalized gibberish. Look, I'm not saying every Suns fans who posts is automatically a homer because they defend or hype the Suns. I do as well. But it doesn't disqualify you, either, if you happen to be critical. I wouldn't say I agree entirely with Barkley and Smith when they say Nash is a streak shooter, but I certainly am not ready to say he's the greatest PG of the last 50 years like one Suns fan claimed in this, or another thread. I think Nash takes some terrible shots. His fall-away, wrong-footed leaners drive me bonkers. He takes at least three or four of these a game. Steve Nash has made a career off of perfecting wrong. It's why he's so good because you can't expect right from him. His shot selection is questionable. How he shoots is sometimes "cover your eyes" atrocious. He goes airborn to pass, but sometimes shoots flat-footed. He over-penetrates. He takes too many chances when passing into traffic. It works for him, but such is also cause for criticism.

I think Nash is more of a rhythm shooter than streak shooter. If he can get a rhythm he's going to stroke it from whereever, whenever... if he can't, and I've seen plenty of games where he can't, his shot stays off all game long. His bad games are maybe one or two in ten, but I can see why Barkley and Smith would say "streak shooter" therefore I don't agree with the criticism of their opinions.

[Findog]

Suns need(ed) to play lights out to beat the Spurs small ball. Still would have clocked 'em but for the suspensions. Prior to to the hip check the Suns had the momentum. Stern completely changed that. Non-homerish fans recognize this. It's pretty obvious.

:lmao

What non-homerish fans recognize is that the Amare/Marion/Nash team was physically owned by the Spurs. A championship team would've won that Game Six in San Antonio when facing elimination, that's what championship teams do, they win when they absolutely have to. Your team was hip-checked the fuck out of the playoffs. You can cling to that fiction if you want.

[Findog]

Also, the leave the bench rule has been drilled into every player and coach incessantly. There's no excuse for Amare and Diaw not to be aware of it. That's why Iavaroni was frantically trying to pull Amare back. If they don't have the poise and presence of mind to remember something as basic as that, it doesn't bode well for how they would handle the pressure of a Game 7 against the Spurs. No matter though, a title team would've beaten San Antonio in Game 6, and they couldn't do it. Nothing is more laughable than the idea that David Stern stole a title from Phoenix by upholding a rule that everybody in the league knows about. The suspensions made it harder for Phoenix to win the series, but it didn't by any means change the ultimate outcome.

[majinkoola]

I hate these people who say, "Oh, a championship team would have overcome that." I don't remember the Spurs overcoming the type of injuries the Suns had in 04-05 and 05-06 to win the championship. I don't remember Duncan and Oberto not playing in a game during a tough series. If the suspensions didn't happen, I don't know who would have won, but it would have likely gone 7. And had Duncan and Oberto been suspended for Game 6 and Amare and Diaw had not been for Game 5, the Suns would have won the series. When did the Spurs win a game 6 on the road to prolong a series? I don't remember it happening. So by your criteria, they're not a championship team.

There are very few teams in history who could have overcome what the Suns have had to go through the last few years. The Spurs are not one of them.

[JMarkJohns]

You need to check your baggage at the door. This board is past last year. Please don't reopen those wounds. There was a time for whining and a time for excuses, but believe me when I say that crap got old real fast, for even non Spurs fans on this board. The idiots that posted then killed last year to the point where it's automatically a bad taste and a terrible way to start of one's posting tenure at this site. If you have an opinion on last year, go to one of the many Suns homer boards like PHXsuns.net or AZSportsFan.com and vent. You'll be in welcome company. If you want to discuss this year here, then I'm sure you'll be welcomed.

But for so, soooo many reasons, leave last year as part of last year. It literally has no bearing on this season. And, since many now commenting weren't even here then, there doesn't seem to be any good reason to litter the boards and drudge the disgust back up.

[Findog]

I hate these people who say, "Oh, a championship team would have overcome that."

Championship teams win when facing elimination. The Suns didn't do that.



When did the Spurs win a game 6 on the road to prolong a series? I don't remember it happening. So by your criteria, they're not a championship team.

Their 03 title team clinched ALL FOUR SERIES on the road. Championship teams win on the road. The 07 Suns were not a championship team.

[Indazone]

Wanna know what makes the Suns so dangerous during this next playoff run? Also for that matter the Spurs? Count below how many times Shaq or Duncan have been a key cog in their respective championship teams.

Last 10 years

1998 Bulls - 7'2" Luc Longly
1999 Spurs - D. Robinson and T. Duncan
2000 Lakers - Shaq
2001 Lakers - Shaq
2002 Lakers - Shaq
2003 Spurs - Duncan
2004 Pistons - B. Wallace
2005 Spurs - Duncan
2006 Heat - Shaq
2007 Spurs - Duncan

[Findog]

Wanna know what makes the Suns so dangerous during this next playoff run? Also for that matter the Spurs? Count below how many times Shaq or Duncan have been a key cog in their respective championship teams.

Last 10 years

1998 Bulls - 7'2" Luc Longly
1999 Spurs - D. Robinson and T. Duncan
2000 Lakers - Shaq
2001 Lakers - Shaq
2002 Lakers - Shaq
2003 Spurs - Duncan
2004 Pistons - B. Wallace
2005 Spurs - Duncan
2006 Heat - Shaq
2007 Spurs - Duncan

How many times has Shaq been a key component on a title team? Once in the past five years, and he's even further removed from that skill level.

[Purple & Gold]

D'Antoni is still an idiot. Can't believe it took him this long to recognize his style won't ever win a Ring.

[hater]

yeah shaq is your saviour :rolleyes

[majinkoola]

You need to check your baggage at the door. This board is past last year. Please don't reopen those wounds. There was a time for whining and a time for excuses, but believe me when I say that crap got old real fast, for even non Spurs fans on this board. The idiots that posted then killed last year to the point where it's automatically a bad taste and a terrible way to start of one's posting tenure at this site. If you have an opinion on last year, go to one of the many Suns homer boards like PHXsuns.net or AZSportsFan.com and vent. You'll be in welcome company. If you want to discuss this year here, then I'm sure you'll be welcomed.

But for so, soooo many reasons, leave last year as part of last year. It literally has no bearing on this season. And, since many now commenting weren't even here then, there doesn't seem to be any good reason to litter the boards and drudge the disgust back up.

I wasn't the one who brought up last year here. But if I hear a false, or at the very least controversial statement like the Suns had no chance last year, I'm not going sit there and not post something about it. Also, you say nobody mentions the past? Isn't that brought up repeatedly in regard to a possible matchup between the Spurs and Suns?

You know what gets old? Thread police. Are you a moderator of this board? Didn't think so. Mind your own business.

And that was really cool when the Spurs won an elimination game on the road during one of their championship runs. Oh wait, it never happened.

[JMarkJohns]

I wasn't the one who brought up last year here. But if I hear a false, or at the very least controversial statement like the Suns had no chance last year, I'm not going sit there and not post something about it. Also, you say nobody mentions the past? Isn't that brought up repeatedly in regard to a possible matchup between the Spurs and Suns?

You know what gets old? Thread police. Are you a moderator of this board? Didn't think so. Mind your own business.

And that was really cool when the Spurs won an elimination game on the road during one of their championship runs. Oh wait, it never happened.

My post was a blanket cry out to the new Suns posters to check last season's baggage. It won't bring anything but disdain to your posts. Right or wrong doesn't exist. Only what did and did not happen. You weren't here. You wouldn't know the shit the good Suns fans had to wade through whilest homer trolls were littering this board with whiny baby posts. It sucked. I'm begging you not to be a part of a new wave of this. There's no good that can come from it. Nothing said can change what happened, and nothing you say will change the opinions of those here. It was what it was and that's that.

You can take this as moderation, which it's not, or both a plead and warning that no good will come from sticking your name flag into that heaping pile. It will only bring you scorn and frustration.

Do I think it was a shitty ruling? Sure. Was it the rule. Yes. That's that. It sucked. It sucked and I lost my damn mind. If you let it, it will consume your every post here. Once certain posters know it gets your goat, they'll follow you poking and a prodding just cause. Since nothing you say can change their mind, and since you'll only appear as a last year obsessed Suns troll littering a Spurs board with posts belittling the Spurs, you'll have you name tied with the likes of da_suns_fan__, youcheatinheart and Danny B. They were a plague.

I'm really trying to do you a service. Take it or leave it...