Bordow: Why not Stoudemire for league MVP?

[ducks]

Bordow: Why not Stoudemire for league MVP?

Scott Bordow, Tribune Columnist

The chant, as it often does, began with a Phoenix Sun at the free-throw line. “MVP! MVP!” Only this time it wasn’t Steve Nash bathing in the cheers, it was Amaré Stoudemire.

Suns top Rockets, extend winning streak to 7

OK, so Suns fans aren’t exactly impartial observers when it comes to Stoudemire. And truth be told, Los Angeles’ Kobe Bryant and New Orleans’ Chris Paul are more deserving candidates.

But if Phoenix keeps winning — the Suns’ streak is up to seven after their 122-113 victory over Houston — and Stoudemire plays the final month of the regular season like he has the past month, he should at the very least be part of the MVP debate.

Stoudemire punished the Rockets on Saturday with 38 points, 13 rebounds and five blocked shots.

He also broke Paul Silas’ 37-year-old team record for consecutive free throws in a game by going 20-for-20 from the line.

Other than that, he didn’t do a whole lot.

“When he plays to his ability, he’s ridiculous,” Suns coach Mike D’Antoni said. “He just keeps getting better and working and he was awesome tonight.”

Upon arriving in Phoenix, Shaquille O’Neal said it was his mission to make Stoudemire the best power forward in the NBA.

“This is the Amaré Stoudemire project for me,” Shaq said.

Given Stoudemire’s play of late, perhaps O’Neal should have a new nickname: The Big Prophet.

In the 21 games since the Suns acquired O’Neal, Stoudemire is averaging 28.8 points, 9.8 rebounds and 2.05 blocks per game. He’s put up at least 30 points and 10 rebounds in seven of those contests.

“He’s playing MVP-like ball now,” O’Neal said. “I told him when I first got here that he should take it personal that they talk about Dwight Howard and Kevin Garnett before they talk about him.”

Stoudemire always had monster numbers in him. He’s still a freakish athlete, even after microfracture surgery.

But there’s a difference between stuffing the stat sheet and helping your team win.

Just last year Stoudemire was among the worst post defenders in the league. He was lazy — he played with his hands instead of his feet — and he had no clue how to play the pick-and-roll. He gave up as many points as he scored.

That’s all changed.

Stoudemire still isn’t going to get any votes for Defensive Player of the Year, but he’s infinitely better at that end of the floor than he was a year ago.

The reason?

He’s working at it.

“I think it’s helped him to be at a more natural position defensively and have Shaq around the basket,” Steve Nash said of Stoudemire’s move to power forward. “But it also takes discipline and maturity to focus and he’s doing that. ... I really appreciate him as a teammate.”

Those are substantial words, given that Nash has been Stoudemire’s harshest critic, both publicly and privately. There were nights when Nash wondered if Stoudemire would ever grow up and grow into his talent.

In that sense, Stoudemire won’t receive a higher compliment all season.

It’s probably too late for Stoudemire to make a serious run at the MVP award. Bryant, Paul and Garnett have too big of a head start. But if the Suns wind up with the best record in the Western Conference, Stoudemire will get some votes.

More importantly, he’ll have won over his locker room.

“I don’t think there’s any question this is the best he’s ever played,” general manager Steve Kerr said.

As Stoudemire hears what his teammates and bosses are saying about him, a smile crosses his face. Last week he wondered why he wasn’t being mentioned in MVP talk. Saturday, he wisely let others speak for him.

Including the fans who roared in appreciation when he broke Silas’ record.

“MVP! MVP!”

Not this year.

But soon.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/111971

[ChuckD]

Columnists in loser team cities write shit about whiney babies like Amare "being in the mix" for MVP. What a fucking column about nothing.

Oh, and Bordeaux is spelled like that, not Bordow.

[SAGambler]

Actually, I think Manu should be considered before Amare. He didn't really do jack shit until the past couple of weeks.

[O-Factor]

Dumbmare isn't even the MVP on his own team. Yeah the dude has put up stats, but thats what happens when Nash spoon feeds you.

[JMarkJohns]

Most dominating doesn't equal most valuable. Sorry, Amare. Love ya and I'm sure glad to have you still be a Sun - I still would have traded he and filler for Gasol and Miller, however... So, while this stretch has been amazing - and it really has with averages of 28+ ppg, 9+ rpg, 2 bpg on 57% shooting and almost 11 FT attempts per as a forward - I can't say you're any more valuable than Nash on these Suns, and, while the streak has meant a great deal to the Suns lately, Paul and Kobe have been their teams most dominating and valuable players for the entire season, not just a part.

Amare's not even in my top-5... I still have Nash ahead of him on the Suns, as well.

[Matchman]

sorry amare but dominating against the crappy houston frontcourt was nothing special

[ludda]

Damn Uhmare is whiny.

[1Parker1]

Why not Stoudemire for league MVP?

HMM, let me count the ways...

1) It was bad enough that the MVP had previously been given twice to the same player who doesn't play a lick of defense. Now, they think giving it to Stoudamire too?

2) He's not even the MVP of his own Team, forget about the league. Let's see how far Stoudamire takes the Suns without Steve Nash dishing him the easy baskets and dunks.

3) He doesn't make his team or teamates better, he's not even the leader on that team!

Lame arguments from the writer of this article...

[Amuseddaysleeper]

If amare was to win the MVP, I would consider him the most one dimensional "MVP" in NBA History.


I would also stop watching the NBA

[ludda]

Uhmare makes the Suns unbearable to me, definition of ego and stat-padder.

[RonMexico]

This article was just to give him an ego boost. If that's what it takes to get him working hard, then it sounds good.

However, if he doesn't get a few MVP votes this year, then hopefully it motivates him.

[Kriz-Maxima]

Damon Stoudamire?

[Xylus]

In the 21 games since the Suns acquired O’Neal, Stoudemire is averaging 28.8 points, 9.8 rebounds and 2.05 blocks per game.
Jesus Christ.

I agree that Nash is slightly more valuable to this team, but the team can't win a championship without Amare. He's become an unguardable player--there's not a player in the league who can stop him. He can take you off the dribble, shoot the 18-foot jumper with amazing consistency, he shoots 80% from the line, and is a beast in the paint. Offensively, he's the best big man in the game. He's not as bad of a defender as Spurs fans will have you believe, but his defense will always be slightly subpar because the coaching staff doesn't preach defense. If his defense improves, he'll win multiple MVP's.

[Xylus]

If amare was to win the MVP, I would consider him the most one dimensional "MVP" in NBA History.


I would also stop watching the NBA
He has the most complete offensive repertoire of any big man in the league. How does that make him any less dimensional than, say, Steve Nash or Dirk Nowitzki, two subpar defenders?

[Allanon]

He has the most complete offensive repertoire of any big man in the league. How does that make him any less dimensional than, say, Steve Nash or Dirk Nowitzki, two subpar defenders?

Steve Nash is a worse defender than Amare but Nash makes his teammates better. Nash carries the team with his penetration giving Amare easier shots. Amare's talented but he wouldn't be a winner without Nash. Anybody have Amare's win/loss stats with Nash out of the lineup?

Dirk's as good an offensive player as Amare with better defense.

You can't be MVP when there's another guy who's better than you on the same team. Who would Sun fans rather have this year, Nash or Amare. I know in the future, Nash will be old but right now, which player is more valuable to the Suns?

Now if Nash gets hurt (god forbid) but if he does and Amare still carries his team playing .700 ball, then he certainly should be a strong contender for MVP.

[Xylus]

Steve Nash is a worse defender than Amare but Nash makes his teammates better. Nash carries the team with his penetration giving Amare easier shots. Amare's talented but he wouldn't be a winner without Nash. Anybody have Amare's win/loss stats with Nash out of the lineup?

Dirk's as good an offensive player as Amare with better defense.

You can't be MVP when there's another guy who's better than you on the same team.

Now if Nash gets hurt (god forbid) but if he does and Amare still carries his team playing .700 ball, then he certainly should be a strong contender for MVP.
I never said Amare was more important to the team than Nash. Nash runs the offense 80% of the time, which is why the Suns play poorly without him. I think if Nash went down for the season, the Suns would eventually adjust and become a winning team--not a contender, but a solid, winning team.

On the other side of the token, the Suns without Amare are not a contender, either. If you'll remember, the Suns lost to the Mavs in 2006 without Amare, after just squeaking by the relatively weak Lakers and the even weaker Clippers. Just like the Spurs aren't a serious contender without Manu Ginobili, or the Mavs aren't a serious contender without Josh Howard, the Suns wouldn't play .700 ball without Amare Stoudemire.

[JMarkJohns]

At one point, even as early as last year, Nash was 75% of the Suns. This year it has certainly decreased, but I still give him the nod to a majority. If it was a toss up twixt Nash or Amare, I'd say the Suns are 60/40 Nash/Amare.

[Xylus]

At one point, even as early as last year, Nash was 75% of the Suns. This year it has certainly decreased, but I still give him the nod to a majority. If it was a toss up twixt Nash or Amare, I'd say the Suns are 60/40 Nash/Amare.
I'd say it's more like 59/41. :lol

[JMarkJohns]

Could very well be. :)

Since Shaq has played alongside Amare, however, his rebounding has been a little inconsistant. If he's only getting 9-per alongside Shaq, that's fine, but the 5/6 rebound games need to go. Even if Shaq gobbles up 10+ per, Amare should still net 8-10. If Shaq has 12+, Amare should still be right around 8-9.

I mean it. I think rebounding is as important as defense to winning a Title. I think the Suns can get by with their 45% offense, 35% rebounding, 20% defense formula. Though, I wouldn't mind if you trimmed a few offensive points and added them to the defensive end. 40/35/25? It's doable.

[Methusaleh]

You can't be MVP when there's another guy who's better than you on the same team.
That didn't stop the Mailman from winning it... twice.


Dirk's as good an offensive player as Amare with better defense.
*gag*


Anyway, Amare has played brilliantly lately but has no chance of winning MVP this year, or even finishing top-3. So why are we talking about this now?

[JMarkJohns]

Malone winning those were a joke. Stockton was that team's MVP and Jordan the League's. It's really not even a debate like the Nash pair. It was just silly.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

He has the most complete offensive repertoire of any big man in the league. How does that make him any less dimensional than, say, Steve Nash or Dirk Nowitzki, two subpar defenders?


Because Amare can't create his own shot. Simple as that.


Without Nash, Amare is a solid bigman, but by no means is he even close to an MVP candidate.

Steve Nash improves his teammates, is an excellent passer, and a very efficient shooter.

Dirk is a very efficient shooter, can be a dependable go to guy down the stretch (yes, despite his overblown "Dirk chokes" rants, whereas Amare misses FT's in crunch time all the time) and Amare is a HORRIFIC defender for a guy his size.

Nash is a brutal defender, but he at least can somewhat negate that with all the other tangibles he brings for his team. Amare is the type of player who, if his shots aren't falling, he isn't gonna do much else for you aside from pulling a few boards, because he hardly can stay on the floor since he's always in foul trouble.


This isn't to say Amare sucks (far from it), just that he isn't well rounded, and I don't really see much in his "repertoire". Al Jefferson, now that's a dude with a repertoire on offense, especially in the post. Amare has a nice jumper that he's worked on, but really, a guy that reliant on athleticism, just makes him a slightly better Dwight Howard on offense, but a very poor defender for a PF of his status.

[JMarkJohns]

He's actually improved his offense without Nash pretty significantly, but you're right overall. Without Nash, Amare would be a 25ppg scorer, on 45-to-50% shooting instead of the 28 ppg scorer on 55-to-60% shooting. It's this efficiency that allows Amare to dominate without becoming a detriment. That's due to Nash.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

He's actually improved his offense without Nash pretty significantly, but you're right overall. Without Nash, Amare would be a 25ppg scorer, on 45-to-50% shooting instead of the 28 ppg scorer on 55-to-60% shooting. It's this efficiency that allows Amare to dominate without becoming a detriment. That's due to Nash.

:tu


I will say that Amare has been on an tear lately since Shaq has returned, and he is a threat on the offensive end.


I just can't see this guy being mentioned in MVP talks.

If anything, Shaq should be ahead of Amare in that list for re-energizing him.

[MrChug]

Dumbmare isn't even the MVP on his own team. Yeah the dude has put up stats, but thats what happens when Nash spoon feeds you.

Perfectly said. Close thread.

(that rhymed :spin )

[RonMexico]

Amare needs to improve his back-to-the basket game. If he develops a greater skill set instead of just trying to use his pure athletic ability all the time, then he'll be even more dominant and won't have to expend as much energy.

Duncan is able to save energy offensively because you have to respect his drive, so he can pump fake and then bank in the 19 foot jumper. Amare needs to develop a few more of these "slowed down" bread and butter plays, which in turn will limit some of his offensive fouls and keep him on the floor longer. However, his play of late has been 2005 WCF caliber and his jumper improves constantly. Still, he's getting a lot of open looks that come from screen and rolls or Nash/Shaq distractions. Once he develops more, can receive the ball on the low block and use fadeaways or jump hooks, then he'll be unstoppable. Jordan developed a backdown game, which was then emulated by Jason Kidd and Gary Payton. Present-day, Rasheed is nearly unguardable on his fadeaway shots. If Amare can emulate these skills, then his athletic ability puts him way over the top.

[Xylus]

Because Amare can't create his own shot. Simple as that.
I can't wait until we play you guys again. :toast

[JackArse]

amare can make his own shot, but.. he doesn't HAVE to most of the time. he's done it more often lately though due to the offensive play changes.

he i think should get some votes for mvp, strictly for stats, BUT.. should not be even in the top 5.

kobe and paul should be the top 2, they are just heads above most everyone else right now.

[Matchman]

He has the most complete offensive repertoire of any big man in the league. How does that make him any less dimensional than, say, Steve Nash or Dirk Nowitzki, two subpar defenders?

Dear Xylus,
:lol Laugh Out Loud :lol

signed,
Yao Ming

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I can't wait until we play you guys again. :toast


It'll be a hell of a series, as always

:toast

[Gino]

Dear Xylus,
:lol Laugh Out Loud :lol

signed,
Yao Ming

LMAO at Yao Ming.

[himat]

Dwight>Amare. If Dwight had Nash in the pick and roll :dizzy :spless:

[Xylus]

Yao Ming?
Dwight Howard?

Give me a fucking break. Amare completely outclasses both players offensively.

[Shred]

Suns = No Shot.

No defense, no interior presence, no rebounding, no toughness, and can't create their own shots. No chance.

[ludda]

Nash runs the team and until perceived otherwise, Amare will not win MVP not being the most important player on his own team. Amare will also not win MVP unless the Suns led by Amare gets first seed in an incredibly tough West. Amare will have to do more than have great stats, he needs to carry his team as the first option deep in the playoffs, like the finals. Until then, he will not be in MVP considerations, especially not when teams like the Lakers, Hornets and Jazz are emerging with their respective leaders of Kobe, Paul and Williams.

[JMarkJohns]

Yao Ming?
Dwight Howard?

Give me a fucking break. Amare completely outclasses both players offensively.

Absolutely correct. As of now, there is no big man who has the offensive skills that Amare possesses. Dwight can't hit the 15-to-20 foot jumper with 50% regularity. He can't take a defender off the dribble, either. Ming can hit the jumper, but I don't think he can dribble drive, nor does he have the lift and strength to finish around the rim the way Amare does.

I wouldn't fault anyone for rather having Howard or Ming. I wouldn't fault them if they wanted Bosh or Boozer. But in this instance, we're not saying Amare is the all-around big man. We were stricktly discussing his offensive ability. No big man can match it right now. Not even Dirk.

If you disagree, then clearly you haven't seen Amare in the last two months. And again, it's no longer just Nash. Nash helps. He does. But Amare can dominate for stretches without the pic-n-roll now. You can simply give him the ball at either elbow and he'll take his man to the hoop if he's playing to close, or take the open jumper if the defender slacks off.

[himat]

Yao Ming?
Dwight Howard?

Give me a fucking break. Amare completely outclasses both players offensively.

Not as an all around player though.

Orlando's offense is retarded too. They never get the ball into Dwight. I remember watching a Spurs game where he got the ball once or twice in a quarter.

Amare doesn't only have Nash he has freaking Shaq. Give Dwight those players and he would make Amare look like a fool in a game.

[The Franchise]

Absolutely correct. As of now, there is no big man who has the offensive skills that Amare possesses. Dwight can't hit the 15-to-20 foot jumper with 50% regularity. He can't take a defender off the dribble, either. Ming can hit the jumper, but I don't think he can dribble drive, nor does he have the lift and strength to finish around the rim the way Amare does.

I wouldn't fault anyone for rather having Howard or Ming. I wouldn't fault them if they wanted Bosh or Boozer. But in this instance, we're not saying Amare is the all-around big man. We were stricktly discussing his offensive ability. No big man can match it right now. Not even Dirk.

If you disagree, then clearly you haven't seen Amare in the last two months. And again, it's no longer just Nash. Nash helps. He does. But Amare can dominate for stretches without the pic-n-roll now. You can simply give him the ball at either elbow and he'll take his man to the hoop if he's playing to close, or take the open jumper if the defender slacks off.
Would you be a better team with Amare or Yao Ming? If you say Amare then 2+2=6. :dizzy

[himat]

Would you be a better team with Amare or Yao Ming? If you say Amare then 2+2=6. :dizzy

Yao and Shaq nuff' said. I think Dwight and Shaq would be even better though.

[TheNextGen]

not this year...but soon.

LOL!

[JMarkJohns]

Would you be a better team with Amare or Yao Ming? If you say Amare then 2+2=6. :dizzy

We're splitting hairs as far as who's the better player or talent. Thing is, offensively, Amare is the perfect complement to Nash. Ming can't do the things on offense that Amare does, therefore I do not think Nash and Ming would be anywhere near as good together offensively as Nash and Amare are. Same with Howard. Nash would only be able to pic-n-roll, but with Amare he can pick-n-pop. Neither Howard (who is the better talent), nor Ming (who's the better all-around player) is the complement that Amare, therefore neither can be as good with Nash.

Ming averages 6 FT attempts per game for his career.
Amare averages 8 FT attempts per game.

Ming has shot 52% from the field for his career.
Amare has shot 54% from the field.

Again, Amare can go off the dribble, take jumper after jumper, and has an improving lane-game that, though not a true low-post game, is very effective at getting him a quality shot or to the FT line.

This season Amare has done even better than his career FT attempts per game, getting to the line 8.5+ times per game, shooting 80% from the stripe.

Here's each's career lines...

20.8 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 1.3 apg, 2.5 topg, .9 spg, 1.6 bpg, 54% FG, 74% FT
19.0 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 1.6 apg, 2.8 topg, .4 spg, 1.8 bpg, 52% FG, 82% FT

If you can look at those CAREER numbers and tell me I'm crazy for selecting Amare over Yao, then you're clearly the one adding 2 and 2 and equaling 6.

At best, it's a toss up. And don't give me the Nash argument either because pre-Nash Amare was a 21-ppg, 9-rpg, 48% FG player. That was his injury riddled second year.

Howard would be imposing. This can't be debated. But I don't think Nash could get out of Howard what he gets out of Amare. Not off the dribble. Not spotting up. Not in getting to the FT line and hitting 80% a clip.

[ChumpDumper]

Amare won't get MVP because he personally lobbies for it.

[himat]

[QUOTE=JMarkJohnsHoward would be imposing. This can't be debated. But I don't think Nash could get out of Howard what he gets out of Amare. Not off the dribble. Not spotting up. Not in getting to the FT line and hitting 80% a clip.[/QUOTE]

You should remember when Amare could only dunk. He was a beast at doing it, but that was all he could do. Dwight is still in his 3rd year.

[JMarkJohns]

Isn't think Dwight's fourth year? If we want to be technical, this is like Amare's sixth year instead of seventh, and he missed one-third of his second season, and probably spend another half a season playing through injury/rehab. All told, this is only Amare's fourth full season.

Also, I do remember Nash feeding Amare in that 04-05 season. The Suns were amazing, but Amare was too one-dimensional and it was exposed to perfection by the Spurs, letting Amare dominate the lane off roll pass after roll pass, but it kept the rest of the Suns out of the game. Now, believe it or not, Amare doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. he can still dominate as the safety on a play as his jumper allows him to spread the floor and wait. He can let other teammates get their offense going and still get his.

[Jeremy]

Isn't think Dwight's fourth year? If we want to be technical, this is like Amare's sixth year instead of seventh, and he missed one-third of his second season, and probably spend another half a season playing through injury/rehab. All told, this is only Amare's fourth full season.

Also, I do remember Nash feeding Amare in that 04-05 season. The Suns were amazing, but Amare was too one-dimensional and it was exposed to perfection by the Spurs, letting Amare dominate the lane off roll pass after roll pass, but it kept the rest of the Suns out of the game. Now, believe it or not, Amare doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. he can still dominate as the safety on a play as his jumper allows him to spread the floor and wait. He can let other teammates get their offense going and still get his.

Actually, Amare was drafted in 2002, so he hasn't even been in the league for six years. This is his fifth season, without including '05-'06. If he had been a red-shirt 5th-year College Senior like Alando Tucker, he would be a rookie this year, right along with Tucker! (He's only about a year older than Tucker.)

[JMarkJohns]

2002-03
2003-04* missed 27 games
2004-05
2005-06* missed 79 games
2006-07
2007-08

Again, Howard is in his fourth full season. As Jeremy accurately pointed out, Amare is in just his fifth. The difference between Howard's offense and Amare's offense is about as great as the difference between Amare's rebounding and Howard's rebounding: pretty significant.

[genomefreak13]

[QUOTE=ducks]Bordow: Why not Stoudemire for league MVP? [QUOTE]

Why not NOT Stoudamire?

He isn't the franchise player in Phoenix. Steve Nash has that distinction. He showed it when he was out with an injury the past few seasons. The same story goes this season.

He isn't as dominant as Lebron James or Kobe Bryant. He's numbers would say it all. Compared to the two earlier mentioned, he's way behind.

Phoenix's winning streak isn't the greatest streak this season. Houston has 22 game winning streak. SA has 10, Portland had 13 , and several others have also done it. So no fuzz with their streak (which is now over).

His teams isn't dominating the league. So we can't say that he had an MVP season this year.

These are the reasons, why Stoudamire should NOT be considered as the MVP. So stop IT!