Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Mavs Mar. 23

[timvp]

The game was ugly. The win probably deserved an injury asterisk. But nonetheless, the Spurs won and that’s the most important thing right now. They certainly didn’t take any steps towards proving they are a championship team in their victory over the Dallas Mavericks, however a W is a W at this point.

The Mavs are in a world of hurt right now, literally and figuratively. Dirk Nowitzki injured his leg in an awkward fall and preliminary reports have him missing at least two weeks. Jason Kidd looks old and is playing with no confidence. Avery Johnson is suddenly on the coaching hot seat. The role players seem to have all lost the confidence that has been their trademark over the last few years. That said, the Mavs still gave the Spurs all they could handle. It’s not a stretch to say the Mavs would have won the game if Nowitzki wouldn’t have gotten hurt. The Spurs had made their run before he went down, but Nowitzki has a funny way of taking a game over from the free throw line in the fourth quarter against the Spurs.

Besides the win, there weren’t many positives to take away from this game. In fact, it might have been a step backwards in the grand scheme of things. The Spurs got fortunate on free throws (23-for-24) and turnovers (5), not to mention Nowitzki’s injury, and still barely snuck away with a win. Basically, it was just a lucky win. The Spurs play as poorly as they did on Sunday in a game that matters during the playoffs and they lose 99 out of a 100 times.

Overall, there’s wasn’t much to be happy about – other than the win, of course.

-Tim Duncan was really bad in the first half. He ended up starting 1-for-11 from the field. His outside shot wasn’t falling and he was compounding issues by not taking it up strong around the basket. His defense all game was only about average. I’ll give him a little bit of credit defensively from guarding everyone from Kidd to Nowitzki but he also had a number of blown assignments. Late in the game, Duncan finally woke up and found his touch. He finished with 19 points and 13 rebounds, while shooting 7-for-21 from the field. Obviously, going forward the Spurs need Duncan to play much better than he did against the Mavs.

-Manu Ginobili was the brightest spot for the Spurs. In the second half, Ginobili played near flawless basketball. He was scoring, creating, defending and fearlessly leading the Spurs to victory. His second half was great. His first half? Not so much. But that one half of quality basketball was a godsend for the Spurs. Without Ginobili’s second half performance, the Spurs likely lose in embarrassing fashion. All told, Ginobili finished with 26 points, eight rebounds, six assists, one steal, one blocked shot and no turnovers. He went 6-for-15 from the field, including 3-for-8 from beyond the arc. Even though his shooting wasn’t great, his concentration and focus were very good. It was only his second game all season without a turnover, which was an amazing feat since he had the ball in his hand so much of the game.

-Tony Parker’s first half was sub par. He was only 4-for-12 from the field in the first two quarters, but to his credit his 13 points were helping the Spurs stay in the game. Parker’s second half was horrendous. In every phase of the game he was just pitiful. He was out of rhythm, hesitating with his shot and making a mass amount of mental mistakes. It was probably his worst half of basketball all season. For the game, Parker finished with 13 points, four rebounds and three steals, while shooting 4-for-21 from the field, including 0-for-9 in the second half. The only good thing I can say about him is he finished the game without a turnover. Other than that, this is a game to forget – instantly.

-Bruce Bowen did a good job of adjusting to whoever the Spurs needed him to guard. At different points in the game, he found himself defending Nowitzki, Josh Howard, Jason Terry and Jerry Stackhouse. It wasn’t a dominating defensive performance but he deserves some credit for all of Dallas’ perimeter players being held relatively in check. In a team-high 41 minutes, Bowen finished with five points and nine rebounds, while shooting 2-for-8 from the field. His shooting was poor but he did knock down a big three-pointer late in the game. Bowen’s nine rebounds were a season-high.

-Michael Finley started and was horrible. Mark Cuban’s money was well spent in this game. After two games in which Finley’s shot appeared to be on the way back, he laid an enormous egg against the Mavs. Hopefully Finley was just in the Easter spirit because otherwise Pop might have to start tinkering with the starting lineup again. The Spurs can’t win a championship with a starter who is prone to celebrating Easter on a semi-nightly basis. Finley finished with two points and five rebounds on 0-for-7 shooting from the field. Not only is he missing shots, he’s just not moving well at all.

-Fabricio Oberto didn’t play well. The Mavs were giving him room offensively and he didn’t take advantage of the situation. Defensively, Oberto was below average and only grabbed one defensive rebound in his 14 minutes of playing time. For the game, Oberto finished with four points and five rebounds, while shooting 2-for-6 from the floor. He played hard and with good energy in his first couple games after he was re-named the starters, but since then Oberto has fallen back into zombie mode.

-Ime Udoka played 30 minutes and I thought he played really well. I’ve been hard on him for looking for his shot too much but this game he did a good job of only shooting good shots. He was really active defensively and just did a solid job all the way around. Udoka’s pull up jumper late in the game when the Spurs needed a basket was also nice to see. Overall, Udoka finished with seven points, four rebounds, one steal and one block.

-Kurt Thomas continues to supply quality bigman minutes from off the bench. He already looks almost completely comfortable in the Spurs system, which would be the fastest bigman acclimation period in recent Spurs history. He’s not going to put up big stats with the Spurs but his workmanlike approach is a good addition to this team. Against the Mavs, Thomas finished with six points, five rebounds, one steal and one block.

-Jacque Vaughn once again played very well. In his stint in the second half, Vaughn was virtually flawless. With the way Parker struggled, the Spurs really needed a lift from Vaughn and he provided just that. In 11 minutes, Vaughn had six points, two assists and hit 3-of-4 shots from the field. Vaughn is currently playing the best basketball of his Spurs career.

-Damon Stoudamire, Matt Bonner and Robert Horry didn’t play. The good news regarding Horry is the MRI on his knee injury didn’t reveal any further damage, however he was non-committal about when he’d play again.

-Brent Barry re-signed with the Spurs on Sunday, which in itself deserves special mention. With the way Finley is playing, Barry can’t come back soon enough. Hopefully he’s healthy and ready to knock down some three-pointers to space the court.

-Pop did a good job. It was a crafty coaching move to put Duncan on Kidd and it worked out nicely. Kidd doesn’t want to shoot and can’t really finish anymore when he drives to the basket so Pop treated him like a total non-offensive threat. The Mavs were never able to exploit that matchup.

I was skeptical when Pop went to small ball so early in the game but it turned out to be the right call. No matter how much Spurs fans complain, it’s impossible for the Spurs to defend the Mavs when Nowitzki is moved to center without going to small ball. It’s just a fact of life that Spurs fans are going to have to deal with. Luckily, Udoka is proving to be a nice option as a small ball power forward.

Pop really can’t be too happy or sleep too soundly after watching the Spurs play on Sunday. The team played unbelievably bad for long stretches of the game. Forget championship, the Spurs wouldn’t be able to get out of the first round with the way they played against the Mavs.

The bottomline is the Spurs got the win. They can definitely improve their play and I think and trust that they’ll do just that. Against the Orlando Magic on Tuesday, the Spurs are going to have to go Orlando and play much better to get a victory.

Believe.

[Doctor J]

Thanks for your thought, timvp.

I don't think Mavs will be a threat in this year's playoffs. This was a dagger.

I really have started worrying about Finley.

[polandprzem]

Another tough game on Sunday noon time.
These games were never easy for the spurs, they always seem like they are sleeping most of the game..

Chump Dumper said in one thread that the spurs are having a good timing. I don't know if the spurs be max ready for the first round, but they have to.

All in all I'm more happy about that win then lj is, and btw where is his wife?

We have some nice tests ahead of us. Housto, Golden and Utah twice yeah nice

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I agree on most accounts. The Spurs played pretty darn bad. I don't think we're in that horrible a state that we won't make it past the first round though... I mean, considering Tony's not going to play like this every game of a 7 game series. Still, ugly win to be certain... nothing pretty about it.

By the way, props for not mentioning the incident with Stackhouse and Manu. It was blown the hell out of proportion to begin with. Considering what had just happened to their star player, and the way the Spur had just caught up with them, this sort of thing isn't unheard of. A hard foul, but not significant in the grand scheme of things.

[roycrikside]

I think you're being way too hard on them. The offense was bad for large stretches, but especially in the first half, the problem was guys missing open shots more than anything else. In the second half they put up 52 points, and that's with Tony and Fin's struggles. Not bad.

Also, just five turnovers. Can't complain about that. We basically took Dallas and Kidd out of their transition game, which is huge. And the free throw shooting was key. We don't win this game if we have a crappy 70% day at the stripe.

The defense meanwhile, I thought was quite good. They rotated well, communicated well, and Dallas had to settle for jumpers all day. Also, this might have been the best we rebounded all season. We just crushed them on the boards, at both ends. I was amazed at the job we did against Bass, Howard, and Dampier in this department. Bass has killed us before, but not today. All the smalls deserve credit for their board work, especially Bowen. Even Fin contributed here.

Really, I thought this was one of our better games, a trademark defensive Spurs game.
I was even impressed by Tony, because he was matched up against Dirk a couple times on a switch in the 3rd and he made him settle for fadeaway jumpers.

The shooting was ugly but we defended, rebounded, and got it done as a team. It reminds me a lot of the win at LA last year, when we played like crap on offense all day but somehow made it to OT and won on a buzzer beating Finley three. This was a huge win and I don't understand at all why you can't understand that.

Last I checked, playing defense, rebounding and not turning it over were signs of a good team.

I don't understand TimVP at all. It's like whenever I think he'll zig, he zags. I thought he'd be thrilled with the win and upset with the folks who go apeshit about Tony's shooting, ignoring the good things he did out there, and instead he's the one that's bitching about everything and downplaying the win, going so far as to call it an asterisk win.

Good grief.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Yes, we played poorly for 36-38 minutes of the game, but I think a little recognition should be given to the 14-0 run before Dirk went out, which eventually became 19-0. That was some really great ball, admittedly Ginobili-inspired, but there's nothing wrong with that because that's our team now. We saw a flash of what this team can do when they lock down on D and let the offense flow. There was also a short burst in the 4th quarter that was impressive.

All in all, a fortunate win, but also a window into what the team can do when they stop thinking too much and worrying about things and just play Spurs basketball.

Can they make that window into a game-long vista? We shall see during the next 12 games.

[gilmor]

I think you're being way too hard on them. The offense was bad for large stretches, but especially in the first half, the problem was guys missing open shots more than anything else. In the second half they put up 52 points, and that's with Tony and Fin's struggles. Not bad.

Also, just five turnovers. Can't complain about that. We basically took Dallas and Kidd out of their transition game, which is huge. And the free throw shooting was key. We don't win this game if we have a crappy 70% day at the stripe.

The defense meanwhile, I thought was quite good. They rotated well, communicated well, and Dallas had to settle for jumpers all day. Also, this might have been the best we rebounded all season. We just crushed them on the boards, at both ends. I was amazed at the job we did against Bass, Howard, and Dampier in this department. Bass has killed us before, but not today. All the smalls deserve credit for their board work, especially Bowen. Even Fin contributed here.

Really, I thought this was one of our better games, a trademark defensive Spurs game.
I was even impressed by Tony, because he was matched up against Dirk a couple times on a switch in the 3rd and he made him settle for fadeaway jumpers.

The shooting was ugly but we defended, rebounded, and got it done as a team. It reminds me a lot of the win at LA last year, when we played like crap on offense all day but somehow made it to OT and won on a buzzer beating Finley three. This was a huge win and I don't understand at all why you can't understand that.

Last I checked, playing defense, rebounding and not turning it over were signs of a good team.

I don't understand TimVP at all. It's like whenever I think he'll zig, he zags. I thought he'd be thrilled with the win and upset with the folks who go apeshit about Tony's shooting, ignoring the good things he did out there, and instead he's the one that's bitching about everything and downplaying the win, going so far as to call it an asterisk win.

Good grief.

The playoffs is near.. it doesn't pay to be 'just good enough;
these boys can play better
:fro

[timvp]

I think you're being way too hard on them.


We don't win this game if we have a crappy 70% day at the stripe.Exactly. If the Spurs didn't have a fluke night from the free throw line, the Spurs lose and Spurs Nation is having a simultaneous breakdown. Sneaking away with a win due largely to a perfect showing at the line against a short-handed team that is struggling massively is not my idea of a win to celebrate about.

And I can't really claim a defensive victory in a game where Nowitzki goes down in the third quarter. The Spurs should be able to shut down the Mavs if Nowitzki isn't in the game.

I agree it was a big win if only for standings sake at this point. But really, with the way the Mavs have been sucking against quality competition and Nowitzki playing less than three-quarters of the contest, I can't honestly say it was anything more than just a W in the record books.

[some_user86]

Exactly. If the Spurs didn't have a fluke night from the free throw line, the Spurs lose and Spurs Nation is having a simultaneous breakdown. Sneaking away with a win due largely to a perfect showing at the line against a short-handed team that is struggling massively is not my idea of a win to celebrate about.

And I can't really claim a defensive victory in a game where Nowitzki goes down in the third quarter. The Spurs should be able to shut down the Mavs if Nowitzki isn't in the game.

I agree it was a big win if only for standings sake at this point. But really, with the way the Mavs have been sucking against quality competition and Nowitzki playing less than three-quarters of the contest, I can't honestly say it was anything more than just a W in the record books.

But they were playing great defense even before Nowitzki went down.

[sabar]

I'm happy with the win but the team only looked good in stretches, not during the whole game. We had a lot of defensive lapses and if we didn't go near-perfect at the line, we would all be wondering why Terry got so many easy shots. Thankfully he went one-on-one a few times instead of letting the team get his shot and he bricked them. Josh Howard has been in a funk for a while, you can't say it was our defense.

Dirk really was the catalyst in this game. If Dirk is 4 for 13 you would hope you would have had that lead earlier and larger. Had he remained in the game he could of easily turned it up a notch just as Duncan does. A few shots here and there and we lose to a free-falling Mavs team. Not the best sign.

The good news is that we won despite shooting horrendously, although it can be argued that our FT shooting made up for that fact.

[GrandeDavid]

Yeah, its nice to see a victory under any circumstances. Most of us are still probably a little stunned by that recent downturn which culminated in the Spurs blowing that huge lead at home against the Celtics. At this point, I just want the Spurs to find a way to win a tough road game in Orlando, and I'm thinking we'll see some better offensive rhythm throughout most of the game. The Spurs just cannot play like they did against Dallas most of the game Sunday and end up getting slapped by the Magic. That would be worrisome and humiliating.

[timvp]

But they were playing great defense even before Nowitzki went down.The Mavs were shooting around 44% when Dirk went down. I don't consider that great defense. Good defense? Better than average defense? Sure.

The broadcast team was hyping it up as if the Spurs were playing suffocating defense. I saw more of the Mavs being unsure of themselves than I saw of the Spurs really dominating defensively.

[Bruno]

On the bright side, Spurs are doing a great job this year at rebounding against Mavs. It's noteworthy given Spurs past struggles in this area against Mavs.
They have allowed only 3 offensive rebounds yesterday and 25 over the 4 games this year against Mavs.

[whottt]

Bowen’s nine rebounds were a season-high.


Pretty sure that's either a career high for Bruce or it ties his career high.

[whottt]

As for the way the Spurs played...

As mentioned after the last Mav game...the worm has turned since the Kidd trade. Pre Kidd the Spurs could play great and still not beat the Mavs...now 2 games in a row the Spurs have played like crap and beaten them. The Spur killing Mavs are finito.



As for how the Spurs played part 2...


I just think they aren't that motiviated...I wasn't even motivated to watch this game. I knew they were going to win it. Plus, it's not like they've gotten 3 or 4 days off yet since that brutal stretch...they are still in it.


Wake me when the playoffs start...I don't care what their seed is, and I don't care what they are doing in the regular season. IMO, they've earned a free pass for substandard play in the regular season...it's just not that easy to get motivated for these regular season "big" games when you've played in as many big games as the Spurs have.

This is a side effect of retuning most of your championship core. Spurfan hasn't seen it before, because the Spurs haven't returned this much of their championship core before.


The less energy wasted on the regular season the better...

[Brutalis]

Mind you we made the run and took the lead before Dirk went down. Game don't deserve an injury asterisk that's just nonsense. We took the game back before injury and the drama happened and after the injury and drama Dallas looked fueled with anger and a will to win and that's when Dallas finally started scoring again.

Duncan is pissing me the hell off. How many times is he going to do this? If it's was a opinion before, it's now fact. Duncan is slower, timid, worse shot selection, and is soft. Not every single game, but it seems more often than not lately Duncan is playing like a teddy bear. I don't know if it's just cause he lost some quickness or what but I hope he turns it on for the playoffs.

[SouthernFried]

I think you're being way too hard on them. The offense was bad for large stretches, but especially in the first half, the problem was guys missing open shots more than anything else. In the second half they put up 52 points, and that's with Tony and Fin's struggles. Not bad.

Also, just five turnovers. Can't complain about that. We basically took Dallas and Kidd out of their transition game, which is huge. And the free throw shooting was key. We don't win this game if we have a crappy 70% day at the stripe.

The defense meanwhile, I thought was quite good. They rotated well, communicated well, and Dallas had to settle for jumpers all day. Also, this might have been the best we rebounded all season. We just crushed them on the boards, at both ends. I was amazed at the job we did against Bass, Howard, and Dampier in this department. Bass has killed us before, but not today. All the smalls deserve credit for their board work, especially Bowen. Even Fin contributed here.

Really, I thought this was one of our better games, a trademark defensive Spurs game.
I was even impressed by Tony, because he was matched up against Dirk a couple times on a switch in the 3rd and he made him settle for fadeaway jumpers.

The shooting was ugly but we defended, rebounded, and got it done as a team. It reminds me a lot of the win at LA last year, when we played like crap on offense all day but somehow made it to OT and won on a buzzer beating Finley three. This was a huge win and I don't understand at all why you can't understand that.

Last I checked, playing defense, rebounding and not turning it over were signs of a good team.

I don't understand TimVP at all. It's like whenever I think he'll zig, he zags. I thought he'd be thrilled with the win and upset with the folks who go apeshit about Tony's shooting, ignoring the good things he did out there, and instead he's the one that's bitching about everything and downplaying the win, going so far as to call it an asterisk win.

Good grief.

I sorta agree with this. I mean, when have the Spurs made 23 of 24 FT's? Calling it "fortunate" a "fluke"...is almost ESPN stuff. Duncan has been improving his FT's a lot lately. This isn't fortunate or a fluke...he's worked hard on his FT's, and worked harder to get to the line. No need to disparage the effort.

JV having one of his best games ever as a Spur...just when we needed it! Thomas looked like a man out there, Ginobli looking strong. Timmy making all but 1 of his FT's.

Yeah, TP and Fin looked terrible, yet we still have a 19-0 run while Dirks still in the game, TP's defense on Dirk always surprises me...and how the hell does he get caught defending him so much?

This was almost a trademark Spurs Defensive game...and a lot of good things to take from it.

I mean...even the Assistant coaches should get props for the way they handled the bench during the Manu/Stack hoedown.

Oh well. Great players, as well as great analysts...can ocassionally have a bad day ;)

And one more thing...not to our great analyst, but to some others in here. LAY THE FUCK OFF OF DUNCAN!

There is no bigger competitor in the league than Tim Duncan. If he's a little slower, not moving as well on rotations and defense...you bet there's a damn good reason.

Yeah, you can note he's not playing the best at times, but you fucking know it ain't because he's not trying. If you think so...you don't know shit about this team.

I've been saying he's looked a little banged up all year, seen him trying to hide a limp at times. He's giving us everything he has to give...and he always HAS. Night in and night out. Remember, Timmy was ALL we had in the middle for the majority of this season with Elson and Fab doing precious little to help him. He was basically alone, until we got KT (one of the best trades the Spurs have ever done, imho.)

You know Timmy will be there... 100% or no.

You can not ask for anything more. He'll not settle for anything less.

[T Park]

I thought they played pretty good defense and saying it was all lack of confidence on the Mavs part is a little on the myopic side.

[wildchild]

-Michael Finley started and was horrible. Mark Cuban’s money was well spent in this game. After two games in which Finley’s shot appeared to be on the way back, he laid an enormous egg against the Mavs. Hopefully Finley was just in the Easter spirit because otherwise Pop might have to start tinkering with the starting lineup again. The Spurs can’t win a championship with a starter who is prone to celebrating Easter on a semi-nightly basis. Finley finished with two points and five rebounds on 0-for-7 shooting from the field. Not only is he missing shots, he’s just not moving well at all.

Pop has more options for the perimeter with Brent this week. He can play immediatly or needs days to heal from his injury?


-Fabricio Oberto didn’t play well. The Mavs were giving him room offensively and he didn’t take advantage of the situation. Defensively, Oberto was below average and only grabbed one defensive rebound in his 14 minutes of playing time. For the game, Oberto finished with four points and five rebounds, while shooting 2-for-6 from the floor. He played hard and with good energy in his first couple games after he was re-named the starters, but since then Oberto has fallen back into zombie mode.

timvp have a look at play by play.

I watched the game and in 14 minutes Nowitzki finished with 0 points against Oberto.
12-7:27 first quarter=Dirk 0 points against Oberto.
12-5:39 second quarter=Dirk 0 points.
12-7:27 third quarter=Dirk 0 points.

It's true his offensive sucked yesterday, but defensively he did a perfect job.

[WalterBenitez]

Besides Manu's game, I'd like to point out the KT, JVG, IME, Bruce contribution, they were there when we need them!

[gospursgojas]

:clap

Leave it to Timvp 's game thoughts to be dark and dreary about a win against the Mavs. They were much more up lifting when we lost to Phoenix and Boston.

I guess it helps to keep the balance. So we don't go jumping off any ledges when we loose and we don't pop champangne when we win. :spin

:tu

[timmy21_4rings]

I am just happy that Spurs won. Otherwise, who knows, we would have given confidence to another team just like we did to Dallas.

[polandprzem]

:clap

Leave it to Timvp 's game thoughts to be dark and dreary about a win against the Mavs. They were much more up lifting when we lost to Phoenix and Boston.

I guess it helps to keep the balance. So we don't go jumping off any ledges when we loose and we don't pop champangne when we win. :spin

:tu

:wtf

timvp is our leader?


whottt what you said is the most strange thing I can't understand from spurs fans. wake me up when the playoffs begin ???
To me it's like saying: I don't care if they will be in the playoffs or not, if they will have an injury or not. I do care when they win a trophy then I am a fan.

uhhhh yea


Manu said that hey ghave still a long way to go to play the way they want to.
One thing is sure - they are recognizing where they are and what they want to do.

btw. I hate this all step in right direction, step in wrong direction. Every game they are going into wrong or right direction.

PS. I know what is all about Kori.

[kolko]

Pretty sure that's either a career high for Bruce or it ties his career high.
His career high is 11.

[Spurminator]

I'm just glad to see the Spurs win a Sunday afternoon game. I expect the worst whenever we have an ABC Sunday game, and we got it yesterday. Fortunately, the Mavs were even worse.

I don't have a huge problem with small ball against the Mavs but we have to play Udoka at the 4 instead of Finley. I can't say I've paid a lot of attention to Udoka's rebounding technique, but Finley never boxes out. Udoka is a better rebounder and defender, and while they're both listed at the same height, Udoka just plays bigger.

[whottt]

whottt what you said is the most strange thing I can't understand from spurs fans. wake me up when the playoffs begin ???
To me it's like saying: I don't care if they will be in the playoffs or not,


It may be "like" saying that, to you...but I'm not saying that. You are adding that to what I said.



if they will have an injury or not.


I don't see how you are drawing that conclusion.





I do care when they win a trophy then I am a fan.


It simply means these games meaningless to me right now.


I don't have a doubt they will make the playoffs...


To me what you are saying is like, you don't have faith in them to make the playoffs...you are silly.

[td4mvp21]

I liked our defense in the game. The offense was horrible but we missed a lot of shots we normally make. As for why the offense was horrible, it was because we weren't moving the ball that much. We need to keep the ball moving-that's what sparked the 19-0 run. The Spurs quit playing isolations and started moving the ball. Thankfully we got a bad offensive night out of the way with a win.

[JPB]

The Mavs are in a world of hurt right now, literally and figuratively. Dirk Nowitzki injured his leg in an awkward fall and preliminary reports have him missing at least two weeks. Jason Kidd looks old and is playing with no confidence. Avery Johnson is suddenly on the coaching hot seat. The role players seem to have all lost the confidence that has been their trademark over the last few years.

that's exactly what you could expect after the Kidd trade's meltdown (Devean "No way I'm giving my Bird's rights up" George + Jerry "I can't control my big mouth" Stackhouse).

People were wondering how chemistry would react to that. Well...

Add the fact that Kidd was Cuban's and not AJ's choice...

[1Parker1]

That one defensive set in the 3rd quarter when the Spurs were making their run, the one where JVG had ABC replay and claimed it was a thing of beauty that brought a tear to his eye, was amazing.

[Whisky Dog]

Is the Jason Kidd trade officially the most successful trade in Spurs history?

[viggenja37]

The Ason Kidd trade is the most successful trade in any Mavs opponent's history.

Those that refuse to study their history of failure are doomed to repeat that failure over and over again. There was many reasons the Mavs got rid of Ason Kidd the first time and at least that time, the Mavs got the better end of the deal.

[hater]

I completely disagree. Spurs showed championship caliber defense for the first time in the season. If they play the kind of defense they played in the 2nd half, we are a lock to win the title.

IMO they flipped the switch yesterday

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I was actually encouraged by this game by the Spurs. The defensive effort really impressed me. My observation, from watching the Spurs over the years, is that when the defensive intensity gets ramped up to playoff level the Spurs offense starts to find itself. With TD and Parker shooting 11 for 42 combined and the Spurs still winning says a lot. Dirk or no Dirk the Spurs win this game. In fact, I thought the loss of Dirk took a little bit of the edge off the Spurs and I got worried because it appeared that they relaxed just a bit. They did a nice job of getting re-focused and putting the game away.

Spurs hit a higher percentage and they would have won this game by 20. The Mavs misses were all contested while the Spurs were missing a lot of open looks.

When the Spurs find their offense they're going to be ready to make some post season noise.

[ECZ]

Is the Jason Kidd trade officially the most successful trade in Spurs history?

:clap

[Brutalis]

I am just happy that Spurs won. Otherwise, who knows, we would have given confidence to another team just like we did to Dallas.
ja mean feenix

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Like Ed, I took some encouragement from the defensive effort. To shoot 3.6% for the first half and not be looking at a triple digit deficit has to say something. And at the risk of sounding Spursdynastic one fluke washes the other. While I don't expect the Spurs to go crazy from the free throw line, I also don't expect to see them shoot that poorly ever again. They were just shooting some shots they were supposed to hit. No surprises there.

[tlongII]

The game was ugly. The win probably deserved an injury asterisk. Blah-Blah-Blah.

I agree with the asterisk part.

[polandprzem]

It may be "like" saying that, to you...but I'm not saying that. You are adding that to what I said.

I don't see how you are drawing that conclusion.

It simply means these games meaningless to me right now.

I don't have a doubt they will make the playoffs...

To me what you are saying is like, you don't have faith in them to make the playoffs...you are silly.

The main reason I posted what I posted is that many fans are not with the team in the season. They don't care about ups and downs and they don't follow the team. That's why the "injury conclusion".

That post was not directed just towards you.
And realy I can't question your fanbase. I've been here long enough. And yea most people forgetting for how long I've been here even if there is this first spurs under my username.

[Spurs Brazil]

On the bright side, Spurs are doing a great job this year at rebounding against Mavs. It's noteworthy given Spurs past struggles in this area against Mavs.
They have allowed only 3 offensive rebounds yesterday and 25 over the 4 games this year against Mavs.

Good note. Mavs usually kill us on the boards

[timvp]

I liked the Spurs' defense in that run in the third quarter. That was very good defense. However, outside of when the Spurs made that third quarter run, the Mavs shot 50% from the field the rest of the game. I fail to see where all this supposedly great defense was played.

That five or six minute stretch in the third was nice defense. The rest of the game was either average or bad defense. Allowing the Mavs to shoot 50% for a vast majority of the game isn't a good sign, in my opinion. Especially with all the adversity the Mavs are going through right now.

That 19-0 run was nice and was definitely Spurs Basketball. But the Spurs can't play 42 minutes of average to bad defense and six minutes of great defense and expect to beat quality teams.

I honestly thought the Spurs played better for longer in recent losses against the Celtics, Pistons and Suns. But yeah, Spurs hit their free throws against the Mavs and came away with the W ... so apparently it's all good.

[Solid D]

One of the positive strategies Pop employed in that 3rd quarter run was putting Tim on Kidd and TP on Dirk and then switching the screens. It worked amazingly well, but would never have worked with Devin Harris. Kidd isn't as fast as he used be (not "Harris" quick). Once Dirk went out, the Spurs trapped the 2 scorers on the floor and left Kidd open. They also sagged on the hand-off slashes, typically leaving the wings open. It worked and Dallas could not recover.

Major bench contributions from Ime Udoka, Jacque Vaughn, Kurt Thomas. Ime was especially good on help defense.

Ginobili was so focused and agressive in the 2nd half, he even went over the back fouling teammate Ime Udoka to snag a rebound.

Questions:
1. Does Mike Finley do anything full speed any more?
2. Will Udoka ever be able to be trusted inbounding on the side out-of-bounds?
3. Will TP and Kurt ever get in sync on the high screen/roll?

[The Truth #6]

Good analysis Solid D. Tim on Kidd and Tony on Dirk seemed to either take away their pick n roll or it forced them into isolation basketball which possibly took away their offensive movement. Or, they just missed a lot of wide open jumpers.

I think Finley is basically done with perhaps one, maybe two good playoffs games left in him. He's a great guy but shouldn't be back next season. He makes about 20 million a year so I don't feel too bad in saying they guy had a great career but he has nothing left and should retire. Same for Horry. Same for Damon. Bones might have one year left.

Even if we win a title this year, next year will be interesting.

Let's hope the team continues to work hard and luck keeps helping us out. Injuries to the Lakers, Rockets, and Mavs have put us in a better position than them. Our threats: Hornets, Jazz, and Nuggets (only because they play dirty and could take one our stars out.) The Suns I'm not too worried about. I think we would be favored. Shaq only has 3 games to offer in a 7 game series.

Sorry for the tangents...

[ShoogarBear]

:lol

I also agree that this wasn't as "bad" a win as timvp is making it out to be, just like I've been disagreeing with all the "good loss" analyses.

I thought the fact that it was a good sign that the Spurs were able to stay within 10 in the first half despite shooting about 25%. Uglification of the game when they aren't playing well is classic Spurs Basketball of yore. The dilettante three-point shooting Spurs of recent times would have been down by 20, but these Spurs compensated for crappy shooting by getting to the line. I hope they remember that lesson in the playoffs.

The 19-0 stretch was caused by a pickup in defensive intensity that made me believe for the first time all year that they might actually be able to flip a switch come playoff time. I'm not totally convinced yet, but there was finally a sign.

Having said that I do agree that the Mavs are playing like crap and so it's hard to say if the Spurs can replicate what they did against sombody like Orlando. But the Mavs, like the Rockets, are always going to play the Spurs tight no matter how off they happen to be at the time.

[timvp]

I thought the fact that it was a good sign that the Spurs were able to stay within 10 in the first half despite shooting about 25%. Uglification of the game when they aren't playing well is classic Spurs Basketball of yore. The dilettante three-point shooting Spurs of recent times would have been down by 20, but these Spurs compensated for crappy shooting by getting to the line. I hope they remember that lesson in the playoffs. ROFL. You should go back to the drawing board with this take. The Spurs shot the same number of three-pointers and the same number of free throws that they've averaged all season. Actually, they would have shot less free throws if the Mavs weren't intentionally fouling at the end of the game. In that 19-0 run, the Spurs just basically got hot from three-point land. Their only free throw attempts were and-1's.

If the Spurs would have shot their normal free throw percentage and lost, you'd be in here calling out the "dilettante" Spurs. But because the Spurs hit their free throws and Dirk didn't get to shoot his customary dozen fourth quarter free throws against the Spurs, suddenly timvp is being too mean to the team :rolleyes

[ShoogarBear]

The 24 FTA they had for the game was actually what they averaged during their BEST year of the last 3-4 years.

And in the first half, they had 13 FTA, which projects to 26 FTA/game, which is way above their season average, and above any average in the last 5 years.

Apology accepted.

[polandprzem]

hehe

FT is the same piece of a win cake as the defense and offense, picks whateva

[timvp]

The 24 FTA they had for the game was actually what they averaged during their BEST year of the last 3-4 years.

And in the first half, they had 13 FTA, which projects to 26 FTA/game, which is way above their season average, and above any average in the last 5 years.

Apology accepted.The Spurs average 11 FTA per half this season. So they shot two more free throws in the first half than the "dilettante" Spurs you've been complaining about? Alert the trophy inscribers :jack

And in that second half that made you believe, the Spurs shot 11 three-pointers and seven free throws. That's "worse" in both areas.

If the Spurs would have played exactly the same but instead shot their average from the line and lost, would you be as happy? You complain about me saying some losses aren't the end of the world yet you are here satisfied in a game where the Spurs played well for about six or eight minutes. The rest of the game the Spurs let the Mavs shoot 50% from the floor.

I don't get the Spurs fans who can be depressed when the team plays 30-35 quality minutes against a team like the quality Celtics or Pistons and lose, but then are satisfied when the Spurs play 6-8 good minutes against a team in disarray like the Mavs and win. It makes no sense to me. The Spurs play like they did against the Celtics and they win more than half the time in the playoffs. The Spurs play like they did against the Mavs and they lose 99% of the time in the playoffs. Yet I'm supposed to be happier with the Mavs game than the Celtics game?

The "Spurs win? Yeah! Spurs lose? Boo!" philosophy only kicks in for me during the playoffs. The regular season, I'm happier if the Spurs play 47 great minutes and lose than if the Spurs play 1 great minute and win. It's all about what is and isn't transferable to the playoffs and against the Mavs, I only saw about six or eight minutes of transferable play.

[hater]

Spurs abused the mavs like in the old days. they did not need to play full blast defense for the rest of the game. everyone saw the mavs were folding after Dirk went down and the 2 technicals.

ugly wins with stretches of great defense , that's been classis spurs ball for the last few years.

once playoffs come, if spurs bring that defense they played in the 3rd quarter, we'll be allright.

[smeagol]

LJ - shoog debates are entertaining reads

[ShoogarBear]

The Spurs average 11 FTA per half this season. So they shot two more free throws in the first half than the "dilettante" Spurs you've been complaining about? Alert the trophy inscribers :jack MIF: The Spurs' 11 FTA per half ranks 27th in the league. 13 FTA per half would rank them 11th in the league.


And in that second half that made you believe, the Spurs shot 11 three-pointers and seven free throws. That's "worse" in both areas. RIF: I didn't say the second half made me believe. I said the stretch in the third quarter. Once Dirk went out, it was bizzaro land with nothing interpretable from it.

[whottt]

The main reason I posted what I posted is that many fans are not with the team in the season. They don't care about ups and downs and they don't follow the team. That's why the "injury conclusion".

That post was not directed just towards you.
And realy I can't question your fanbase. I've been here long enough. And yea most people forgetting for how long I've been here even if there is this first spurs under my username.



I'm just not putting much weight into the regular season...


It's not the playoffs, and they know it.


Yes, if they fall out of the playoff picture I'll be more worried about it...


However, they haven't fallen out of the playoff picture, and I don't anticipate that is going to happen.

[whottt]

Poland...if you want to be get worked up about regular seasons losses, by all means do so...I just don't see good reasons for doing so.

[timvp]

MIF: The Spurs' 11 FTA per half ranks 27th in the league. 13 FTA per half would rank them 11th in the league.So if the Spurs had one less trip to the free throw line in the first half, then you would have called out the team for being dilettante?


RIF: I didn't say the second half made me believe. I said the stretch in the third quarter.Alright, since you are so into extrapolating, let's extrapolate out that 19-0 run. That run last 4:30. During that time, the Spurs shot five three-pointers and two free throws. That extrapolates out to 53 three-pointers per game and 21 free throws per game.

So in actuality, the Spurs becoming exceedingly more dilettante is what led you to believe. I guess you only don't like three-pointers when the Spurs aren't making them. You also don't mind the Spurs shooting less free throws as long as the Spurs are making threes.

Got it.

[slayermin]

I wish the Spurs would force Jason Terry left off the screen and roll. He is money going to the right with that little pull up of his. You take that away and the Mavs lose by double digits on Sunday.

[bigfundamental21]

And one more thing...not to our great analyst, but to some others in here. LAY THE FUCK OFF OF DUNCAN!

There is no bigger competitor in the league than Tim Duncan. If he's a little slower, not moving as well on rotations and defense...you bet there's a damn good reason.

Yeah, you can note he's not playing the best at times, but you fucking know it ain't because he's not trying. If you think so...you don't know shit about this team.

I've been saying he's looked a little banged up all year, seen him trying to hide a limp at times. He's giving us everything he has to give...and he always HAS. Night in and night out. Remember, Timmy was ALL we had in the middle for the majority of this season with Elson and Fab doing precious little to help him. He was basically alone, until we got KT (one of the best trades the Spurs have ever done, imho.)

You know Timmy will be there... 100% or no.

You can not ask for anything more. He'll not settle for anything less.
True that :blah !

Timmy may be slacking off a little, but we all know he will deliver when it matters most.

And to timvp, thanks for the honest game thoughts. It's hard not to get too giddy when the Spurs win and think that everything is great. You have a great way of analyzing the game from a perspective that it honest and realistic. You set the standard for game analysis. Yeah, people disagree because we won, but you are right about the team having to show what they've got now. The playoffs are coming and we have to be battle-ready. This year will be the toughest just to get out of the West. I believe our Spurs will be ready and I know that we will fight to keep our title!:ihit

BELIEVE

[polandprzem]

Poland...if you want to be get worked up about regular seasons losses, by all means do so...I just don't see good reasons for doing so.

Frankly on most ocasions it was as you said, but I got more matured in the being spursfan process and I'm not getting worked up as much as I used.

I just don't like the phrase "I don't care about regular season, I don't care if they win or lose".
It's like when you look at your kid, you want him to achive some goals, you watch him and try to help in some situations. You want to know where is he on his way achiving this goals.


The next topic:
It was Sunday noon (not spurs time for playing ball)
The spurs were struggling
FT stats don't mean shit, (the points are affecting the play)
They are old, so they will be trying to get all the energy in the last week before PO and the PO itself

[TampaDude]

A win is a win...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

now 2 games in a row the Spurs have played like crap and beaten them.
.............................................exact ly :smokin


this guy gets it.

[wildbill2u]

It's very hard to tell much from the game because the Spurs shot like shit and Dirk got hurt.

On the plus side, theSpurs really started palying good hard defense in the second half.

On the negative side the shooting by the entire squad was the worst I've ever seen. Part of the problem was they were passing up open shots when they got the ball, hesitating and then taking the same shot when the defense caught up. If they catch and shoot and rely on their reflexes they probably shoot better.

[grjr]

Questions:
1.
2. Will Udoka ever be able to be trusted inbounding on the side out-of-bounds?
3.

Whereas normally players get an actual 6 to 7 seconds to inbound the ball (because the refs count slowly), Ime got an actual 4 seconds on that play. That's the first time I've ever seen a count that short in all my years of watching basketball.

[Obstructed_View]

Worst game thoughts ever. After a slow start to a noon game, which the Spurs are notoriously bad at, they buckled down and played spectacular defense and it changed the way they play. They erased a double digit deficit with Nowitzki in the game. They fought for rebounds, went to the bucket aggressively, hustled and passed the ball effectively. If they'd actually shot some of their jumpers in rhythm they'd have run away with the game much earlier. That they didn't suffer any letdown whatsoever without Dirk on the floor speaks volumes for the mindset of this team. Say what you will about the Mavericks, but this was a big game for both teams and two weeks ago this is a game the Spurs lose.

That said, it was one of the worst officiated games I've ever seen. It was really strange to see Timmy get hammered with no call and then see the officials call a BS travelling call on the Mavericks on the next trip down. I'm embarassed for NBA officials at that performance. That crew on Sunday should be at Pauley calling Bruins games.

[timvp]

That they didn't suffer any letdown whatsoever without Dirk on the floor speaks volumes for the mindset of this team.ROFL. Biggest homer take ever.


That said, it was one of the worst officiated games I've ever seen.Actually, that might have been the best officiated Spurs vs. Mavs games I've seen in the last three years.


It was really strange to see Timmy get hammered with no call and then see the officials call a BS travelling call on the Mavericks on the next trip down. You've never seen a makeup call in the NBA?

[lefty]

The game was ugly. The win probably deserved an injury asterisk. But nonetheless, the Spurs won and that’s the most important thing right now. They certainly didn’t take any steps towards proving they are a championship team in their victory over the Dallas Mavericks, however a W is a W at this point.

The Mavs are in a world of hurt right now, literally and figuratively. Dirk Nowitzki injured his leg in an awkward fall and preliminary reports have him missing at least two weeks. Jason Kidd looks old and is playing with no confidence. Avery Johnson is suddenly on the coaching hot seat. The role players seem to have all lost the confidence that has been their trademark over the last few years. That said, the Mavs still gave the Spurs all they could handle. It’s not a stretch to say the Mavs would have won the game if Nowitzki wouldn’t have gotten hurt. The Spurs had made their run before he went down, but Nowitzki has a funny way of taking a game over from the free throw line in the fourth quarter against the Spurs.

Besides the win, there weren’t many positives to take away from this game. In fact, it might have been a step backwards in the grand scheme of things. The Spurs got fortunate on free throws (23-for-24) and turnovers (5), not to mention Nowitzki’s injury, and still barely snuck away with a win. Basically, it was just a lucky win. The Spurs play as poorly as they did on Sunday in a game that matters during the playoffs and they lose 99 out of a 100 times.

Overall, there’s wasn’t much to be happy about – other than the win, of course.

-Tim Duncan was really bad in the first half. He ended up starting 1-for-11 from the field. His outside shot wasn’t falling and he was compounding issues by not taking it up strong around the basket. His defense all game was only about average. I’ll give him a little bit of credit defensively from guarding everyone from Kidd to Nowitzki but he also had a number of blown assignments. Late in the game, Duncan finally woke up and found his touch. He finished with 19 points and 13 rebounds, while shooting 7-for-21 from the field. Obviously, going forward the Spurs need Duncan to play much better than he did against the Mavs.

-Manu Ginobili was the brightest spot for the Spurs. In the second half, Ginobili played near flawless basketball. He was scoring, creating, defending and fearlessly leading the Spurs to victory. His second half was great. His first half? Not so much. But that one half of quality basketball was a godsend for the Spurs. Without Ginobili’s second half performance, the Spurs likely lose in embarrassing fashion. All told, Ginobili finished with 26 points, eight rebounds, six assists, one steal, one blocked shot and no turnovers. He went 6-for-15 from the field, including 3-for-8 from beyond the arc. Even though his shooting wasn’t great, his concentration and focus were very good. It was only his second game all season without a turnover, which was an amazing feat since he had the ball in his hand so much of the game.

-Tony Parker’s first half was sub par. He was only 4-for-12 from the field in the first two quarters, but to his credit his 13 points were helping the Spurs stay in the game. Parker’s second half was horrendous. In every phase of the game he was just pitiful. He was out of rhythm, hesitating with his shot and making a mass amount of mental mistakes. It was probably his worst half of basketball all season. For the game, Parker finished with 13 points, four rebounds and three steals, while shooting 4-for-21 from the field, including 0-for-9 in the second half. The only good thing I can say about him is he finished the game without a turnover. Other than that, this is a game to forget – instantly.

-Bruce Bowen did a good job of adjusting to whoever the Spurs needed him to guard. At different points in the game, he found himself defending Nowitzki, Josh Howard, Jason Terry and Jerry Stackhouse. It wasn’t a dominating defensive performance but he deserves some credit for all of Dallas’ perimeter players being held relatively in check. In a team-high 41 minutes, Bowen finished with five points and nine rebounds, while shooting 2-for-8 from the field. His shooting was poor but he did knock down a big three-pointer late in the game. Bowen’s nine rebounds were a season-high.

-Michael Finley started and was horrible. Mark Cuban’s money was well spent in this game. After two games in which Finley’s shot appeared to be on the way back, he laid an enormous egg against the Mavs. Hopefully Finley was just in the Easter spirit because otherwise Pop might have to start tinkering with the starting lineup again. The Spurs can’t win a championship with a starter who is prone to celebrating Easter on a semi-nightly basis. Finley finished with two points and five rebounds on 0-for-7 shooting from the field. Not only is he missing shots, he’s just not moving well at all.

-Fabricio Oberto didn’t play well. The Mavs were giving him room offensively and he didn’t take advantage of the situation. Defensively, Oberto was below average and only grabbed one defensive rebound in his 14 minutes of playing time. For the game, Oberto finished with four points and five rebounds, while shooting 2-for-6 from the floor. He played hard and with good energy in his first couple games after he was re-named the starters, but since then Oberto has fallen back into zombie mode.

-Ime Udoka played 30 minutes and I thought he played really well. I’ve been hard on him for looking for his shot too much but this game he did a good job of only shooting good shots. He was really active defensively and just did a solid job all the way around. Udoka’s pull up jumper late in the game when the Spurs needed a basket was also nice to see. Overall, Udoka finished with seven points, four rebounds, one steal and one block.

-Kurt Thomas continues to supply quality bigman minutes from off the bench. He already looks almost completely comfortable in the Spurs system, which would be the fastest bigman acclimation period in recent Spurs history. He’s not going to put up big stats with the Spurs but his workmanlike approach is a good addition to this team. Against the Mavs, Thomas finished with six points, five rebounds, one steal and one block.

-Jacque Vaughn once again played very well. In his stint in the second half, Vaughn was virtually flawless. With the way Parker struggled, the Spurs really needed a lift from Vaughn and he provided just that. In 11 minutes, Vaughn had six points, two assists and hit 3-of-4 shots from the field. Vaughn is currently playing the best basketball of his Spurs career.

-Damon Stoudamire, Matt Bonner and Robert Horry didn’t play. The good news regarding Horry is the MRI on his knee injury didn’t reveal any further damage, however he was non-committal about when he’d play again.

-Brent Barry re-signed with the Spurs on Sunday, which in itself deserves special mention. With the way Finley is playing, Barry can’t come back soon enough. Hopefully he’s healthy and ready to knock down some three-pointers to space the court.

-Pop did a good job. It was a crafty coaching move to put Duncan on Kidd and it worked out nicely. Kidd doesn’t want to shoot and can’t really finish anymore when he drives to the basket so Pop treated him like a total non-offensive threat. The Mavs were never able to exploit that matchup.

I was skeptical when Pop went to small ball so early in the game but it turned out to be the right call. No matter how much Spurs fans complain, it’s impossible for the Spurs to defend the Mavs when Nowitzki is moved to center without going to small ball. It’s just a fact of life that Spurs fans are going to have to deal with. Luckily, Udoka is proving to be a nice option as a small ball power forward.

Pop really can’t be too happy or sleep too soundly after watching the Spurs play on Sunday. The team played unbelievably bad for long stretches of the game. Forget championship, the Spurs wouldn’t be able to get out of the first round with the way they played against the Mavs.

The bottomline is the Spurs got the win. They can definitely improve their play and I think and trust that they’ll do just that. Against the Orlando Magic on Tuesday, the Spurs are going to have to go Orlando and play much better to get a victory.

Believe.

We had a 19-0 run before Dirk's injury

[Manu_Ginobili]

The game was ugly. The win probably deserved an injury asterisk. But nonetheless, the Spurs won and that’s the most important thing right now. They certainly didn’t take any steps towards proving they are a championship team in their victory over the Dallas Mavericks, however a W is a W at this point.

The Mavs are in a world of hurt right now, literally and figuratively. Dirk Nowitzki injured his leg in an awkward fall and preliminary reports have him missing at least two weeks. Jason Kidd looks old and is playing with no confidence. Avery Johnson is suddenly on the coaching hot seat. The role players seem to have all lost the confidence that has been their trademark over the last few years. That said, the Mavs still gave the Spurs all they could handle. It’s not a stretch to say the Mavs would have won the game if Nowitzki wouldn’t have gotten hurt. The Spurs had made their run before he went down, but Nowitzki has a funny way of taking a game over from the free throw line in the fourth quarter against the Spurs.

Besides the win, there weren’t many positives to take away from this game. In fact, it might have been a step backwards in the grand scheme of things. The Spurs got fortunate on free throws (23-for-24) and turnovers (5), not to mention Nowitzki’s injury, and still barely snuck away with a win. Basically, it was just a lucky win. The Spurs play as poorly as they did on Sunday in a game that matters during the playoffs and they lose 99 out of a 100 times.

Believe.

All bunch of non-sense posting for today's game - you watched the game with your behind...This is NBA! 2 players got injured but then R. Lewis and Doolly stpped up and had MONSTER game...Timmy blocked Howard 3 times, he was very solid in "D", the Spurs picked up when needed, midway 3rd quarter and in the last 5 minutes of the game when we allowed just 4 pts before the reserves took over...WELL Played game, WELL deserved Victory against a TOP team in the East with 23-14 at home...We should be happy Finley scored 24 pts, besides Tony P, everyone else played SOLID and well...STOP with the NON-SENSE...No way this game-victory deserves asterisk...You need that in the game...Last year Horry did what he did...you had that Game 5-asterisk WIN, an ugly one, BUT WHO CARES??? WE WON THE TITLE AFTERWARDS... :nope :nope :nope

[duncan228]

All bunch of non-sense posting for today's game - you watched the game with your behind...This is NBA! 2 players got injured but then R. Lewis and Doolly stpped up and had MONSTER game...Timmy blocked Howard 3 times, he was very solid in "D", the Spurs picked up when needed, midway 3rd quarter and in the last 5 minutes of the game when we allowed just 4 pts before the reserves took over...WELL Played game, WELL deserved Victory against a TOP team in the East with 23-14 at home...We should be happy Finley scored 24 pts, besides Tony P, everyone else played SOLID and well...STOP with the NON-SENSE...No way this game-victory deserves asterisk...You need that in the game...Last year Horry did what he did...you had that Game 5-asterisk WIN, an ugly one, BUT WHO CARES??? WE WON THE TITLE AFTERWARDS... :nope :nope :nope

Pay attention.

This thread is about the Mavs game, not the Magic game.

And Horry's game 5 heroics were in '05, not last year.

[timvp]

All bunch of non-sense posting for today's game - you watched the game with your behind...This is NBA! 2 players got injured but then R. Lewis and Doolly stpped up and had MONSTER game...Timmy blocked Howard 3 times, he was very solid in "D", the Spurs picked up when needed, midway 3rd quarter and in the last 5 minutes of the game when we allowed just 4 pts before the reserves took over...WELL Played game, WELL deserved Victory against a TOP team in the East with 23-14 at home...We should be happy Finley scored 24 pts, besides Tony P, everyone else played SOLID and well...STOP with the NON-SENSE...No way this game-victory deserves asterisk...You need that in the game...Last year Horry did what he did...you had that Game 5-asterisk WIN, an ugly one, BUT WHO CARES??? WE WON THE TITLE AFTERWARDS... :nope :nope :nopeI'll give you credit. There were some damn weak replies in this thread but this one actually was pretty solid. I mean, really, it was like I almost watched the wrong game. I apologize.

[duncan228]

I'll give you credit. There were some damn weak replies in this thread but this one actually was pretty solid. I mean, really, it was like I almost watched the wrong game. I apologize.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[anakha]

How stupid does one have to be to forget to read the damn subject header? :lmao

[duncan228]

How stupid does one have to be to forget to read the damn subject header? :lmao

And how do you miss the Mavericks team name and players names and coaches name in the opening paragraph of the recap?

[ShoogarBear]

So in actuality, the Spurs becoming exceedingly more dilettante is what led you to believe. I guess you only don't like three-pointers when the Spurs aren't making them. You also don't mind the Spurs shooting less free throws as long as the Spurs are making threes.

Got it.RIF #2:


The 19-0 stretch was caused by a pickup in defensive intensity that made me believe for the first time all year that they might actually be able to flip a switch come playoff time. I'm not totally convinced yet, but there was finally a sign.
I do hope you bring your A game for the next game thoughts.

[timvp]

RIF #2:


I do hope you bring your A game for the next game thoughts.Hey, it only took you 27 hours to come up with this gem. And props for cherry picking in a way to avoid all questions posed :clap

I quoted what I was replying to, which wasn't your original post in the thread. And as you've said recently, you are more worried about the offense than the defense. Why would good defense make you believe when the offense was supposedly the problem?

And yeah, I'll be sure to use Shoog's "Spurs Win? Yeah! Spurs Lose? Boo!" © technique for the forthcoming thoughts.

:smokin

[ShoogarBear]

Hey, it only took you 27 hours to come up with this gem. And props for cherry picking in a way to avoid all questions posed :clap

I quoted what I was replying to, which wasn't your original post in the thread. And as you've said recently, you are more worried about the offense than the defense. Why would good defense make you believe when the offense was supposedly the problem? Um, no. What I said was I was worried that the Spurs wouldn't be able to come up with the defensive play of old, and thus would be held hostage to how their offense performed to win games. This game was old-time Spurs-winning-even-though-offense-sucked.


And yeah, I'll be sure to use Shoog's "Spurs Win? Yeah! Spurs Lose? Boo!" © technique for the forthcoming thoughts.

:smokinIt will meld well with your usual "make up stuff Shoog didn't say" technique.

:smokin

[Obstructed_View]

ROFL. Biggest homer take ever.

I know you are angry that there was actually a post that didn't drool all over you in gratitude for your takes, but the Spurs have been playing like dogshit the last month, and that they didn't just completely stop trying once Dirk got hurt means something and you know it. Then again, you didn't recognize that they played good defense or crashed the boards. Or maybe you are just trying to be an asskiss to the Mavs fans around here who are probably in low spirits because Dirk got hurt.


Actually, that might have been the best officiated Spurs vs. Mavs games I've seen in the last three years.

You've never seen a makeup call in the NBA?
The above combined with your game thoughts leads me to believe you didn't actually watch that game.

[timvp]

And as you've said recently, you are more worried about the offense than the defense. Why would good defense make you believe when the offense was supposedly the problem?
Um, no. What I said was I was worried that the Spurs wouldn't be able to come up with the defensive play of old, and thus would be held hostage to how their offense performed to win games. This game was old-time Spurs-winning-even-though-offense-sucked. Really?


Well, obviously I don't think the Spurs are just fine. There are some issues which actually have been brewing at least since last season, but they caught a break since they ended up not having to face Dallas or Detroit in the playoffs. (No problem with that, it makes up for the bad breaks of 04 and 06).

On defense, the troubles have been discussed ad nausium. They're older, and the decision to rely on corporate knowledge rather than some new young legs has hurt them there. In the playoffs, I actually anticipate that they'll do a bit better, if only for the fact that everyone tightens up in shooting.

Offense is a bigger concern. The Spurs are more reliant on the 3-pointer and jump shots than any time in their history. And correspondingly doing less in the paint than at any time in the TD era

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2334824&postcount=81


Apology Accepted.



It will meld well with your usual "make up stuff Shoog didn't say" technique.

:smokinIs this technique related to Shoog's "I said it but hopefully timvp can't find it" technique?

:smokin

[timvp]

I know you are angry that there was actually a post that didn't drool all over you in gratitude for your takesROFL @ me caring what anyone thinks about what I post.


but the Spurs have been playing like dogshit the last month, and that they didn't just completely stop trying once Dirk got hurt means something and you know it.I still don't understand how this is something the Spurs should be proud of. You seriously thought the Mavs minus Dirk were going to beat the Spurs? Maybe pre-Jason Kidd trade but not these Mavs.


Then again, you didn't recognize that they played good defense or crashed the boards.Did you not read the thread? I've given them props on both of those categories. But again, outside of that 4:30 run in the third quarter, the Spurs allowed the Mavs to shoot 50% the rest of the game. How is that good defense? Seriously, I want to know.


Or maybe you are just trying to be an asskiss to the Mavs fans around here who are probably in low spirits because Dirk got hurt.Wait, sit back and just think about you said. You accuse me of asskissing the Mav Fans when this entire thread I've been bashing the Mavs the whole time? You either didn't read the thread or need to read it again. I've repeatedly said the Mavs are so bad now that there's no way the Spurs should have needed a run in the third quarter and a perfect showing at the line to beat them. Explain to me how that is asskissing Mav Fan. If anything, that's the opposite.


The above combined with your game thoughts leads me to believe you didn't actually watch that game.Link to anyone else complaining about the refs other than you? You are shocked at a makeup call in the NBA. Those happen multiple times in every game.

[ShoogarBear]

Really?



Apology Accepted.


Is this technique related to Shoog's "I said it but hopefully timvp can't find it" technique?

:smokinTalk about cherry picking. Not to mention circular argument. You just completely ignored the part about the Spurs not getting to the line, which OF COURSE is the original point of this thread, the fact that the Spurs were able to keep close in the first half by getting FTs.

[gilmor]

Fuck.. how come TiMVP spent his time doing up Game Thots and still get all these flacks.. I don't even think you guys appreciate what immense benefits SpursTalk has brought to foreign fans like us..

[Kori Ellis]

Fuck.. how come TiMVP spent his time doing up Game Thots and still get all these flacks.. I don't even think you guys appreciate what immense benefits SpursTalk has brought to foreign fans like us..

Don't worry - timvp likes arguing about sports. :lol

[timvp]

Talk about cherry picking. Not to mention circular argument. You just completely ignored the part about the Spurs not getting to the line, which OF COURSE is the original point of this thread, the fact that the Spurs were able to keep close in the first half by getting FTs.:lol I didn't need to quote the whole post to point out that you actually did say offense was the bigger concern. Why would I quote the whole five paragraphs about free throws? You just said you were talking about the defense in the third quarter. So now the Spurs shooting two more free throws in the first half than normal made you believe? Pick a side of the fence, please.

So is offense now not your bigger concern? That changed in three days?

[timvp]

Fuck.. how come TiMVP spent his time doing up Game Thots and still get all these flacks.. I don't even think you guys appreciate what immense benefits SpursTalk has brought to foreign fans like us..It's all good. I enjoy holding my position against bad takes. Spurs fans were giddy for less than five good minutes of basketball against a bad team. That is unacceptable for both the Spurs and Spurs fans who support such play.

[Nikos]

Honestly I will take any Spurs win at this point. Too many good teams that will have an edge in homecourt if the Spurs don't win EVERY GAME from here on out. I don't care how it gets done, but I just want the Spurs to win every game possible, whether by 1 or 20 points. It would be nice if they squashed every team, but I will take the wins even if they look bad in the process. Their have been many seasons, namely when they were scorching going into the playoffs and have lost in the first game of the playoffs or lost 4 in a row against LA in 2004 for me to care at this point.

Homecourt is all that matters because all the other matchups are going to be really tough, and having that homecourt will make all the difference if they are in a Game 7 -- plus I think their psyche won't be too fragile if they know they don't have to play on the road to start a series. And since they are good enough to win and compete on the road, its only natural they want Game 7 in their house. Less pressure.

If they can get homecourt in the West atleast they should have a good sense of confidence going in.

[ShoogarBear]

:lol I didn't need to quote the whole post to point out that you actually did say offense was the bigger concern. Why would I quote the whole five paragraphs about free throws? You just said you were talking about the defense in the third quarter. So now the Spurs shooting two more free throws in the first half than normal made you believe? Pick a side of the fence, please.

So is offense now not your bigger concern? That changed in three days?:lol You're tohe one who keeps flipping the argument when it suits your purpose.

I said I didn't like the trend in the way the Spurs offense wasn't getting to the FT line. Then I said I did like the way they got to the FT line in the first half, and how it kept them in the game. If they hadn't gotten to the line, the game would have been over in the first half.

If the Spurs can continue to get to the line, this is good. If they don't, then it is a big concern.

I also said I liked the way the defensive intensity picked up in the second half. Am I only allowed to comment either offense or defense, but not both?

Geez, I thought only New Age Spur fans forgot how the Spurs used to win.

[Nikos]

It's all good. I enjoy holding my position against bad takes. Spurs fans were giddy for less than five good minutes of basketball against a bad team. That is unacceptable for both the Spurs and Spurs fans who support such play.

This is true. But for me a win is a win. To me even if the Spurs finish 59-23 the regular season was still a failure for the most part. I mean this team is too experienced and hasn't suffered any serious injuries to be this bad. Yeah the West is as solid as ever, but it wasn't exactly horrible in 2003 of 2004. And they did pretty well as a less experienced team where Parker and Ginobili weren't even nearly as good as they are now.

Its all about getting homecourt in the West and just figuring it out in the playoffs. Just forget the regular season when its done. Get into the Western Playoffs with homecourt and they have a solid chance to making it to the NBA finals against probably a better team in Boston (likely to be them). But at least they will have momentum moreso than any other playoff and will be battle tested. Their confidence would be way higher then ever.

Honestly can the Spurs even do anything impressive to end this regular season that will make you feel they can beat everyone? Even if they lay an egg and finish 54-28, they still have the same core and experience.

Just finish the season on Top of the West should be the most important thing. No game 7's on the road in the West would be the ideal situation. Winning the rest of these games is just a small intangible to cover up for the fact that the team has underachieved in a major way this regular season.

[timvp]

:lol You're tohe one who keeps flipping the argument when it suits your purpose.You keep ignoring 90% of my questions. Again, is offense or defense the bigger concern? Your first take was offense. Now it's defense. Which is it?


I said I didn't like the trend in the way the Spurs offense wasn't getting to the FT line. Then I said I did like the way they got to the FT line in the first half, and how it kept them in the game. If they hadn't gotten to the line, the game would have been over in the first half. :lol They had one more trip to the line in the first half than they've averaged for the season. That one extra trip to the line wasn't the difference between the game being over at the half. Even *shudder* two less trips to the line and the Spurs would have been right there at the half.

The Spurs were in the game mostly because the Mavs suck right now.


If the Spurs can continue to get to the line, this is good. If they don't, then it is a big concern.I don't disagree with that. However, you do realize that the Spurs won the game in the second half when they shot less free throws than normal, right?


I also said I liked the way the defensive intensity picked up in the second half. Am I only allowed to comment either offense or defense, but not both?

Geez, I thought only New Age Spur fans forgot how the Spurs used to win.The Spurs win by letting the other team shoot 50% for 43:30 of the game and then shut them down for 4:30? You're talking about the San Antonio Spurs, right? The team that wins by playing solid defense all game long and slowly be surely wearing teams down until they crack? That's the Spurs I know.

Not the let's-turn-it-on-for-a-few-minutes Spurs. Again, would you prefer a regular season loss in which the Spurs played great for 47 minutes or a regular season win in which the Spurs played great for 1 minute? I know you'll ignore this question yet again but you can't blame me trying . . .

:hat

[timvp]

Honestly can the Spurs even do anything impressive to end this regular season that will make you feel they can beat everyone?Yeah, they can actually. If they put together a string of games where the team plays solid defense all game long and adds in a consistently executing offense, my level of confidence would rise. Right now I think they can do that eventually but I'd like to actually see it happen.

Again, if the Spurs play like they did against the Mavs in a game in the playoffs, they lose 99% of the time in the playoffs. Average to bad defense for 90% of the game against a struggling team is unacceptable to me. But obviously, as long as the Spurs won, it appears as if most Spurs fans are fine with however they play. While I will take the win, it was far from impressive.

[Manudona]

Yeah, they can actually. If they put together a string of games where the team plays solid defense all game long and adds in a consistently executing offense, my level of confidence would rise. Right now I think they can do that eventually but I'd like to actually see it happen.

Again, if the Spurs play like they did against the Mavs in a game in the playoffs, they lose 99% of the time in the playoffs. Average to bad defense for 90% of the game against a struggling team is unacceptable to me. But obviously, as long as the Spurs won, it appears as if most Spurs fans are fine with however they play. While I will take the win, it was far from impressive.

For the tone of this post, and the lack of the "Believe" signature, it seems you lost faith in this team :p:

{Edit} Oh I see the original post had the signature after all :)

[polandprzem]

Again, if the Spurs play like they did against the Mavs in a game in the playoffs, they lose 99% of the time in the playoffs. Average to bad defense for 90% of the game against a struggling team is unacceptable to me. But obviously, as long as the Spurs won, it appears as if most Spurs fans are fine with however they play. While I will take the win, it was far from impressive.

Now if you would argue with timvp he would question those numbers proving that they are incorrect :wakeup

[polandprzem]

Fuck.. how come TiMVP spent his time doing up Game Thots and still get all these flacks.. I don't even think you guys appreciate what immense benefits SpursTalk has brought to foreign fans like us..

I like that he is accepting what I post. He never argued with me.


:smokin

[Obstructed_View]

Fuck.. how come TiMVP spent his time doing up Game Thots and still get all these flacks.. I don't even think you guys appreciate what immense benefits SpursTalk has brought to foreign fans like us..
Because it's an internet discussion board. He's not going to stop posting them because someone disagrees with him.

[Obstructed_View]

I still don't understand how this is something the Spurs should be proud of. You seriously thought the Mavs minus Dirk were going to beat the Spurs? Maybe pre-Jason Kidd trade but not these Mavs..
"These" Mavs almost beat the Spurs in San Antonio during the 11 game streak. That they eventually showed up for a noon game is nothing the Spurs should be proud of either. When a team's been playing gutless basketball for a stretch, any sign of heart is better than none.


Did you not read the thread? I've given them props on both of those categories. But again, outside of that 4:30 run in the third quarter, the Spurs allowed the Mavs to shoot 50% the rest of the game. How is that good defense? Seriously, I want to know.
I guess it isn't. We'll just look at the shooting percentages of the other team and figure that's the mark of whether or not the Spurs played good defense. You don't even have to watch the games. The Spurs have never been in a situation in previous years where they didn't play particularly well for a stretch and then went on a run to blow the game open at some point. Nah, that's never happened. Since this is the first 5 minutes of championship defense the Spurs have played since the first quarter of the season, it's worth noting. I'd llike the Spurs to play 48 minutes of shut-down basketball too, but when they've been playing zero, I'll celebrate a few minutes at a time as a sign of good things to come.


Wait, sit back and just think about you said. You accuse me of asskissing the Mav Fans when this entire thread I've been bashing the Mavs the whole time? You either didn't read the thread or need to read it again. I've repeatedly said the Mavs are so bad now that there's no way the Spurs should have needed a run in the third quarter and a perfect showing at the line to beat them. Explain to me how that is asskissing Mav Fan. If anything, that's the opposite.
Since Duncan's putback on the very play that Dirk got injured gave them the lead from being down by double digits minutes before, it's disingenuous to suggest that the game deserves an injury asterisk. Combined with your suggestion that the Spurs got "lucky" for taking care of the ball or for getting to the line, suggesting that you're placating the Mavs fans who like to accuse every Spurs team that beats them of being undeserving of the win is if nothing else logically defensible.


Link to anyone else complaining about the refs other than you? You are shocked at a makeup call in the NBA. Those happen multiple times in every game.
You took one of my examples and immediately concluded that they were make up calls, somehow to imply that I don't know enough about basketball to know the difference. A make-up call is to even out the game for an accidental whistle or a questionable call. They made incorrect calls all day long, and there was no rhyme or reason to it because there's no way they could have kept track of who was ahead or behind enough to even it out. If that's what you meant when you suggested that the Spurs were lucky to have only five or six turnovers, then I'd agree with you. Since you've taken the public position that I'm somehow "complaining" about the officiating when I was simply pointing out how bad the crew was, I presume that's not what you meant.

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs win by letting the other team shoot 50% for 43:30 of the game and then shut them down for 4:30? You're talking about the San Antonio Spurs, right? The team that wins by playing solid defense all game long and slowly be surely wearing teams down until they crack? That's the Spurs I know.
:lmao Yeah be sure to let us know when they show up, because basketball teams just suddenly turn it on when they've been playing like crap for the majority of the season, and showing signs of coming out of the funk just isn't enough. Hell, it's hardly worthy of acknowledgement.

[temujin]

The Spurs defense showed up when it was needed, in the third quarter and beyond.
Expecting a ferocious defense for 40' rom >30 years old chaps for 82 games is less absurd than insane.
Spurs played a better than average deensive game overall against an excellent team, that was hitting difficult shots in the first half.
Very good game by Duncan and Finley. The latter finally looking better on defense. Solid games by Bowen Udoka and Vaughn.
Oberto and Thomas caused no harm.
I thought Parker was so-so untill I realized how well the team did point-wise when he was on the floor. That's the KEY statistic for a point guard.
Manu is to the point when you notice that he has forced and missed a few shots, and he still got 28 with >50% FGP. I actually disagree with TIMVP that Manu overlooked Duncan late. Howard was actually playing very good gambling defense.

Overall, Spurs are back on track. I would say, a little improvement in Parker outside shot, Barry and Horry back, and the rest of the crew is going to be there on time.

[timvp]

"These" Mavs almost beat the Spurs in San Antonio during the 11 game streak. That they eventually showed up for a noon game is nothing the Spurs should be proud of either. When a team's been playing gutless basketball for a stretch, any sign of heart is better than none. The Mavs were playing worse coming into this most recent game. Kidd had regressed and AJ is under fire. The Mavs were ripe for the picking and the Spurs barely picked them. It was nice to get the win but that was about all that was nice about the game.


I guess it isn't. We'll just look at the shooting percentages of the other team and figure that's the mark of whether or not the Spurs played good defense. You don't even have to watch the games. The Spurs have never been in a situation in previous years where they didn't play particularly well for a stretch and then went on a run to blow the game open at some point. Nah, that's never happened. Since this is the first 5 minutes of championship defense the Spurs have played since the first quarter of the season, it's worth noting. I'd llike the Spurs to play 48 minutes of shut-down basketball too, but when they've been playing zero, I'll celebrate a few minutes at a time as a sign of good things to come.The Spurs played better defense for longer in losses against the Pistons and Celtics. The Spurs happened to lose those games so fans started imploding and wondering whether the Spurs could be lucky enough to draft Michael Beasley. The Spurs played less championship basketball against the Mavs but thankfully the Mavs suck too much to take advantage of the 43 and a half minutes where the Spurs didn't play that good. If we should praise championship play, more praise should have been given after the Pistons and Celtics games.


Since Duncan's putback on the very play that Dirk got injured gave them the lead from being down by double digits minutes before, it's disingenuous to suggest that the game deserves an injury asterisk. Combined with your suggestion that the Spurs got "lucky" for taking care of the ball or for getting to the line, suggesting that you're placating the Mavs fans who like to accuse every Spurs team that beats them of being undeserving of the win is if nothing else logically defensible.First of all, a game isn't over because the Spurs went up by two points in the third quarter. I've seen too many Dirk free throw line parades to think that the Spurs going up two against the Mavs in the third quarter at a game in Dallas is an automatic win.

Second of all, I said the Spurs were lucky to hit 96% or whatever it was from the line. I didn't say they were lucky by getting to the line. RIF.

And asterisk smack shouldn't really faze Spurs fans anymore. I've learned to embrace asterisk smack. I'll take asterisk number five this year, thankyaverymush.


You took one of my examples and immediately concluded that they were make up calls, somehow to imply that I don't know enough about basketball to know the difference. A make-up call is to even out the game for an accidental whistle or a questionable call. They made incorrect calls all day long, and there was no rhyme or reason to it because there's no way they could have kept track of who was ahead or behind enough to even it out. If that's what you meant when you suggested that the Spurs were lucky to have only five or six turnovers, then I'd agree with you. Since you've taken the public position that I'm somehow "complaining" about the officiating when I was simply pointing out how bad the crew was, I presume that's not what you meant.Other than that one makeup call you pointed out, what other plays did you have a problem with? This was the first Mavs vs. Spurs game in a long time that neither team's fanbase had a problem with the refereeing ... other than you. But perhaps you saw stuff nobody else saw ... that's why I ask.


Yeah be sure to let us know when they show up, because basketball teams just suddenly turn it on when they've been playing like crap for the majority of the season, and showing signs of coming out of the funk just isn't enough. Hell, it's hardly worthy of acknowledgement.Again, I saw more championship basketball against the Pistons and Celtics. I point that out and get blasted for not being sad enough about a loss or whatever.

I guess I have learned that I should only acknowledge positives if the Spurs end up winning the game. I should also exaggerate those positives even if they only lasted for about four minutes of action. If the Spurs lose, I should know the Spurs sucked the whole game and that the Spurs need to tank. I apologize for my slow learning curve on this matter.

[timvp]

The Spurs defense showed up when it was needed, in the third quarter and beyond.
Expecting a ferocious defense for 40' rom >30 years old chaps for 82 games is less absurd than insane.
Spurs played a better than average deensive game overall against an excellent team, that was hitting difficult shots in the first half.
Very good game by Duncan and Finley. The latter finally looking better on defense. Solid games by Bowen Udoka and Vaughn.
Oberto and Thomas caused no harm.
I thought Parker was so-so untill I realized how well the team did point-wise when he was on the floor. That's the KEY statistic for a point guard.
Manu is to the point when you notice that he has forced and missed a few shots, and he still got 28 with >50% FGP. I actually disagree with TIMVP that Manu overlooked Duncan late. Howard was actually playing very good gambling defense.

Overall, Spurs are back on track. I would say, a little improvement in Parker outside shot, Barry and Horry back, and the rest of the crew is going to be there on time.Either you posted this in the wrong thread or else I really do need to go watch the Mav game again . . .

[temujin]

Either you posted this in the wrong thread or else I really do need to go watch the Mav game again . . .

The first one you wrote.

[ShoogarBear]

You keep ignoring 90% of my questions. Again, is offense or defense the bigger concern? Your first take was offense. Now it's defense. Which is it?One more time, slowly.

When they aren't going to the free throw line and jacking up threes like they're going out of style, I worry about the offense.

IN . . . THIS . . . GAME . . . THEY . . . WERE . . . GETTING . . . TO . . . THE . . . LINE . . . AND . . . THAT . . . MADE . . . ME . . . HAPPY. IF . . . THEY . . . GO . . . BACK . . . TO . . . NOT . . . DOING . . . THAT . . . I . . . WILL . . . CONTINUE . . . TO . . . WORRY.


:lol They had one more trip to the line in the first half than they've averaged for the season. That one extra trip to the line wasn't the difference between the game being over at the half. Even *shudder* two less trips to the line and the Spurs would have been right there at the half. First of all, it's not "one more trip to the line" than they've averaged all sseason, but I guess I just have to move past your sloppiness with statistics. And as I've already said, and YOU keep conveniently ignoring, that increase is the difference between ranking in the bottom 10% of the league and ranking in the upper half.


Not the let's-turn-it-on-for-a-few-minutes Spurs. Again, would you prefer a regular season loss in which the Spurs played great for 47 minutes or a regular season win in which the Spurs played great for 1 minute? I know you'll ignore this question yet again but you can't blame me trying . . .

:hatI "ignore" your questions because frankly, they aren't really questions. They're just your usual device to shift attention away from the point being made.

Tell you what I'll answer your "question" if you answer a question: Did the Spurs stay in the game the first half because they got to the free throw line?

And the answer to your question is . . . it depends on the opponent. And I haven't seen the Spurs play great for 47 minutes, or even close to it, in any of the "good losses" you're so happy about.

[timvp]

I worry about the offense.I'm talking about the whole season, not the game against the Mavs. You worry about the offense more than the defense?


IN . . . THIS . . . GAME . . . THEY . . . WERE . . . GETTING . . . TO . . . THE . . . LINE . . . AND . . . THAT . . . MADE . . . ME . . . HAPPY. IF . . . THEY . . . GO . . . BACK . . . TO . . . NOT . . . DOING . . . THAT . . . I . . . WILL . . . CONTINUE . . . TO . . . WORRY.

LETS . . . GO . . . COME . . . ON
Because the Spurs shot two more free throws than they average in the first half against the Mavs, you weren't worried. Yeah, we've already covered that. That's not the question I'm asking.


First of all, it's not "one more trip to the line" than they've averaged all sseason, but I guess I just have to move past your sloppiness with statistics. Spurs average 11 free throws per half. In the first half against the Mavs, the Spurs shot 13 free throws. 13 - 11 = 2 = one trip to the line.

Which part of that stat do you have a problem with?


And as I've already said, and YOU keep conveniently ignoring, that increase is the difference between ranking in the bottom 10% of the league and ranking in the upper half.I'm talking about the context of just the Mav game. The Spurs shot 13 first half free throws. The Spurs average 11 free throws per half. If the Spurs hadn't made you stop worrying and only shot 11 free throws instead of 13, they would have been down by six instead of four.

You can extrapolate all you want but those two points in the first half meant nothing.


I "ignore" your questions because frankly, they aren't really questions. They're just your usual device to shift attention away from the point being made.

Tell you what I'll answer your "question" if you answer a question: Did the Spurs stay in the game the first half because they got to the free throw line?What kind of question is that? Did they stay in the game because they got to the free throw line two more times than their average? No, absolutely not. Down four or down six going into halftime is the same crap.

If you are asking me if the Spurs going to the line 13 times instead of 0 times kept them in the game, then yeah it did. But what point would that prove? The dilettante Spurs average 11 free throws per half. You can't use 0 as the "not getting to the line" number ... you gotta use 11.

Are you telling me those two extra free throws in that specific game were the difference between the win and the loss?


And the answer to your question is . . . it depends on the opponent. And I haven't seen the Spurs play great for 47 minutes, or even close to it, in any of the "good losses" you're so happy about.Link to the last time I was happy about a loss? Link to a regular season loss you weren't mad about?

[Obstructed_View]

The Mavs were playing worse coming into this most recent game. Kidd had regressed and AJ is under fire. The Mavs were ripe for the picking and the Spurs barely picked them. It was nice to get the win but that was about all that was nice about the game.
No, the Mavericks were playing better. They'd won five winnable games in a row and had two heartbreakers against LA and Boston coming in. This was the biggest game of the season for them because it was a winning team, a western team, a division opponent, and the Spurs. The Spurs beat them by more points than either Boston or LA did, but that's all because of Dirk's injury.


The Spurs played better defense for longer in losses against the Pistons and Celtics. The Spurs happened to lose those games so fans started imploding and wondering whether the Spurs could be lucky enough to draft Michael Beasley. The Spurs played less championship basketball against the Mavs but thankfully the Mavs suck too much to take advantage of the 43 and a half minutes where the Spurs didn't play that good. If we should praise championship play, more praise should have been given after the Pistons and Celtics games.
Yeah, getting outrebounded 51-39 and a blown 22 point lead (respectively) are both reasons to start planning a parade. Save your "Offense or defense" arguments for Shoog; cherry picking to serve your argument isn't going to bail you out. If you are going to put a stopwatch on the amount of time the opponent doesn't make baskets so you have a field goal percentage that suits you then you can't see the difference between championship basketball and Van Gundy-ball. Getting rebounds, going on timely runs, taking care of the ball, playing good defense and closing out games are all part of championship basketball. The Pistons and Celtics games were good starts, but no better than the Dallas game.


First of all, a game isn't over because the Spurs went up by two points in the third quarter.
Since your argument has been that I'm a homer for suggesting that the Spurs deseve credit for closing out that game, then the game WAS over at that very point because Dirk got hurt. You really need to make up your mind what your position is.


I've seen too many Dirk free throw line parades to think that the Spurs going up two against the Mavs in the third quarter at a game in Dallas is an automatic win.
And you accuse me of complaining about the officiating?


Second of all, I said the Spurs were lucky to hit 96% or whatever it was from the line. I didn't say they were lucky by getting to the line. RIF.


The Spurs got fortunate on free throws (23-for-24) and turnovers (5)
That could read as percentage and/or number of attempts. Since you didn't in-fact say they were "lucky to hit 96% or whatever", reading comprehension smack comes off kind of weak.



And asterisk smack shouldn't really faze Spurs fans anymore. I've learned to embrace asterisk smack. I'll take asterisk number five this year, thankyaverymush.
Well put. I wholeheartedly agree.


Other than that one makeup call you pointed out, what other plays did you have a problem with? This was the first Mavs vs. Spurs game in a long time that neither team's fanbase had a problem with the refereeing ... other than you. But perhaps you saw stuff nobody else saw ... that's why I ask.
Fanbases see calls against their own team, and nothing else. You know I have a long history of defending the NBA refs. I try to watch the officiating as a whole, and this was one of those bad games. I still have the game recorded and would be happy to go back through and come up with a dozen examples for you. Sometimes crews get whistle happy. Sometimes crews just don't have a good game. Since there really was no rhyme or reason to the pattern I thought there was some bizarre combination of both and decided this was a good place to offer the otherwise random observation. I really hadn't anticipated that you'd try to accuse me of whining about the refs just because I disagreed with your other points, or I probably wouldn't have bothered to bring it up.


Again, I saw more championship basketball against the Pistons and Celtics. I point that out and get blasted for not being sad enough about a loss or whatever.
I'm fairly sure I never blasted you for that. I think you should probably take issue with those folks and actually address my points. A solid first quarter of championship basketball is something Kings fans should be excited about, not Spurs fans in late March. Call me kooky, but I'm a lot more impressed when they can wear down an opponent and close them out in the second half, while taking care of the ball and actually winning the rebounding battles. Being up 1 at the end is a W, being up 22 in the first quarter is lucky to qualify as a moral victory.


I guess I have learned that I should only acknowledge positives if the Spurs end up winning the game. I should also exaggerate those positives even if they only lasted for about four minutes of action. If the Spurs lose, I should know the Spurs sucked the whole game and that the Spurs need to tank. I apologize for my slow learning curve on this matter.
Yeah, I get it. I dared to disagree, and now you think I'm one of the people I created my avatar for. Nothing gets by you.

Since you won't even acknowledge rebounding or effort or a run because you are so locked into 4 minutes of field goal percentage as motivation for your game thoughts, I have a feeling you haven't "learned" much of anything.