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duncan228
03-24-2008, 04:26 PM
I put this here because it's Monroe, and because of the Duncan mention.
Please move if I messed up. :)

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/mmonroe/stories/MYSA032308.MikeMonroe.en.359f565.html

Mike Monroe: Charting top four MVP candidates

The race for Most Valuable Player is no more clear than the race for playoff positions in the Western Conference.
There is a connection, one to the other, since more and more voters like their MVPs to come from the teams that fare best during the regular season.

This, of course, begs the question: Why should any player other than Kevin Garnett even be considered for the top spot on an MVP ballot?

Garnett is the best player on the team with the league's best record, one that just rolled through Texas without a loss against teams still battling for the top spot in the West.

What argues against Garnett's ascendancy, though, is the fact he is but one corner of Boston's big three.

And when he missed nine games?

The Celtics went 7-2.

There is only one true consensus about this year's MVP race: No serious voter can omit Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul or LeBron James from a spot on his or her ballot.

(The league requires voters to allocate spots, one through five, and assigns 10 points to a first-place vote, eight to a second-place vote, etc.)

The fifth spot?

Take your pick among Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, Manu Ginobili, Amare Stoudemire, Steve Nash, Carlos Boozer, Deron Williams, Tracy McGrady, even Allen Iverson if the Nuggets make the postseason field.

The defending MVP?

Only if Dirk Nowitzki manages to personally lift the Mavericks to the top of the Western Conference by season's end.

What seems fair at this point in the season is to examine the four leading candidates as empirically as possible. For this, the tried-and-true Larry Bird rankings always are most helpful.

Long before nearly every NBA fan owned a computer, Bird, a three-time MVP (1984, 1985, 1986) during his Hall of Fame career with the Celtics, put together a formula he believed accurately quantified a player's true value. He shared it with some sports writers, who quickly dubbed it the Larry Bird Formula and applied it to what may have been the first basketball fantasy league.

It was simple and genius: Add a player's points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks, then subtract missed shots, missed field goals, personal fouls and turnovers. Divide by number of games played, and compare the per-game averages.

The highest average, Bird argued, was probably the MVP.

The fact he typically had the highest mark was no coincidence.

Later, Bird agreed to eliminate fouls from the equation since some fouls — given to prevent easy baskets, for example, or to stop the clock late — were good stats, rather than bad.

Here is how this year's presumed Final MVP Four stack up in Bird numbers as teams approach their final dozen regular-season games:

•LeBron James: 64 games, 1,975 points, 521 rebounds, 473 assists, 117 steals, 67 blocks; 734 missed shots, 191 missed free throws, 218 turnovers. Bird Points/Game: 31.4.

•Chris Paul: 65 games, 1,401 points, 256 rebounds, 732 assists, 177 steals, 2 blocks; 541 missed shots, 42 missed free throws, 167 turnovers. Bird Points/Game: 27.96.

•Kobe Bryant: 69 games, 1,942 points, 418 rebounds, 365 assists, 133 steals, 34 blocks; 759 missed shots, 100 missed free throws, 230 turnovers. Bird Points/Game: 26.13.

•Kevin Garnett: 59 games, 1,110 points, 561 rebounds, 203 assists, 86 steals, 76 blocks; 390 missed shots, 60 missed free throws, 121 turnovers. Bird Points/Game: 24.83.

By Bird's reckoning, the numbers scream that James be this season's MVP. The fact the Cavaliers are fourth in the Eastern Conference weighs against this conclusion unless you believe his teammates are so average the Cavs' relatively high standing proves he is more valuable than a player like Garnett, who counts two All-Stars among his teammates.

Voters will have to decide how much weight to assign Bryant's ability to keep the Lakers at, or near, the top of the West through roster change and injury; or Paul's rise to his status as the point guard with the biggest impact is primarily responsible for the Hornets' stature in the standings.

This season, more than ever, the Bird Formula is more guideline than MVP mandate, but nonetheless useful. Certainly Stoudemire will want to use his lofty Bird average, 27.7 (trust us, we ran the numbers) to reinforce his recent assertion that he deserves MVP consideration, too.

Duncan's Bird average, by the way, is a solid 25.16, helped by his improvement this season at the foul line, where he has made 73.2 percent of his attempts.

Finally, it's distressing to hear hints that Bird could be on the way out in Indiana. Ownership has vowed to change the culture of a basketball operation that had produced little but embarrassment, on and off the court, for much too long.

Donnie Walsh, one of the smartest guys ever to run an NBA team, reportedly met with owners Mel and Herb Simon in recent days. It seems they want to keep him on board, rather than see him undertaking the rebuilding of the Knicks or Bucks.

It's hard to say what this means for Bird, but there are whispers that if Walsh stays, Bird will be shunted aside.

Those of us who believe in his MVP guide and value his friendship will be sad if he goes.

Cry Havoc
03-24-2008, 05:05 PM
Looking at those numbers, it's almost ludicrous to say Kobe should be the unanimous MVP. I know numbers don't tell everything, but LeBron has scored more and has over 100 more assists on FEWER turnovers. He's ridiculous.

Gino
03-24-2008, 05:38 PM
I dont understand the logic behind Kobe's MVP votes. Everything he does, LeBron does BETTER.

Paul is having a better season and winning just as much.

So why Kobe?

timvp
03-24-2008, 05:40 PM
It was simple and genius: Add a player's points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks, then subtract missed shots, missed field goals, personal fouls and turnovers. Divide by number of games played, and compare the per-game averages. Hollinger just turned over in his grave.

duncan228
03-24-2008, 05:44 PM
Hollinger just turned over in his grave.

:lol

I always liked the Bird Formula.
I think it's a good way of doing it.

Ed Helicopter Jones
03-24-2008, 05:45 PM
Of the four top candidates listed I'd vote for Lebron. The Cavs would be battling to see if they could secure the best ping pong ball position were it not for him. Put Kobe on that team and he'd be crying for a trade. Put Garnett on the Cavs and you'd have the Wolves of the last two years. Put Chris Paul on that team and...........oh wait.......












Of the top four candidates listed I'd vote for Lebron James or Chris Paul.

baseline bum
03-24-2008, 05:47 PM
I dont understand the logic behind Kobe's MVP votes. Everything he does, LeBron does BETTER.

Paul is having a better season and winning just as much.

So why Kobe?

Because writers don't like giving MVPs to the league's most valuable player; only to the best player on one of the top 3 teams in the league.

baseline bum
03-24-2008, 05:48 PM
Of the four top candidates listed I'd vote for Lebron. The Cavs would be battling to see if they could secure the best ping pong ball position were it not for him. Put Kobe on that team and he'd be crying for a trade. Put Garnett on the Cavs and you'd have the Wolves of the last two years. Put Chris Paul on that team and...........oh wait.......












Of the top four candidates listed I'd vote for Lebron James or Chris Paul.

I don't think they'd have to battle much for that last spot without LeBron. :lol
They'd probably be twice as bad as Miami.

DDS4
03-24-2008, 05:49 PM
It's gonna come down to which team does better in the standings at season's end.

Even though Lebron's numbers are ridiculous, I don't think he's going to get the nod over CP3 and Kobe.

WalterBenitez
03-24-2008, 05:57 PM
I'd go with KG because of his impact to BOS!

JamStone
03-24-2008, 06:02 PM
I dont understand the logic behind Kobe's MVP votes. Everything he does, LeBron does BETTER.

Paul is having a better season and winning just as much.

So why Kobe?

You mean except shooting and defense? Not like those two things are important in basketball.

BlackSwordsMan
03-24-2008, 06:13 PM
You can count on Kobe making the game winner.
Kobe > lebron

Solid D
03-24-2008, 06:20 PM
Using the Bird Formula
TP is 16.84
Manu is 20.51

Medvedenko
03-24-2008, 06:21 PM
I wonder how the Bird calculations summed up Nash winning back to back.....Did he have the highest per....

ShoogarBear
03-24-2008, 06:34 PM
Nobody ever accused Bird of being much of a mathematician.

Course, some of us never accused Hollinger of being much of one either.

Galileo
03-24-2008, 06:45 PM
A better way is the take the efficiency rating from NBA.com, then add the per game plus/minus.

Use as a guide, then adjust for intangibles.

Examples

Garnett plays in th east, so does Lebron, dock them.

TD is all-defensive player, give a bonus.

Amare Stoudemire sucks on defense, dock him.

Spurs play at slower pace, bonus.

DAF86
03-24-2008, 07:22 PM
i have no doubt in my mind that paul should be the MVP this season. who thought that NO would be first in the WC at this stage of the season? you take CP3 out of that team and they would probably have the worst record in the NBA right now.

Avitus1
03-24-2008, 07:25 PM
I'd have to choose Chris Paul just look at what he did for the Hornets.

hater
03-24-2008, 07:28 PM
gotta be Lebron. Kobe has too much talent around him, CP3 is a close 2nd. But Lebron has complete trash mostly as teamates.

KG has no chance.

Mr.Bottomtooth
03-24-2008, 07:33 PM
then subtract missed shots, missed field goals
Can someone help me understand this part?

mystargtr34
03-24-2008, 08:05 PM
The Bird formula is way to simplistic... Hollingers PER is basically the Bird formula analysed much further and more accurate.

Surely you guys can see why Garnetts numbers have taken a hit? This Boston team plays the slowest pace in the league.

Less shots = less points per game
Less shots = less rebounds per game
Less shots = less chance for assists per game

less blocks... everything.

Tim Duncan has always been more dominant than even his numbers suggest.. even in his 25-13-4-3 seasons because the Spurs played at a ridiculously slow pace in those days.

TampaDude
03-24-2008, 09:06 PM
Looking at those numbers, it's almost ludicrous to say Kobe should be the unanimous MVP. I know numbers don't tell everything, but LeBron has scored more and has over 100 more assists on FEWER turnovers. He's ridiculous.

+1

Kobe has a lot of other good players on his team. LeBron IS the Cavs...don't forget, he took that team of scrubs to the NBA FINALS last year!

If LeBron James doesn't get the MVP, something is seriously wrong with the NBA.

mathbzh
03-25-2008, 04:44 AM
2 years ago Kobe had ridiculous stats (35/5/5 and this 81 pts game) but was not the MVP because Nash was the media darling, LA didn't have a good record and because of the unwritten rule about the MVP being the best player in a top 3 team.

I have nothing against Lebron being the MVP but if the voters are consistent the MVP should be Kobe.

KidCongo
03-25-2008, 04:56 AM
LeBron is the Most Valuable Player

The BestPlayerBestTeam award goes to

Kobe or Garnett or Paul (he will be an MVP with LeBron soon)

mathbzh
03-25-2008, 04:57 AM
LeBron is the Most Valuable Player

The BestPlayerBestTeam award goes to

Kobe or Garnett or Paul (he will be an MVP with LeBron soon)
+1

eisfeld
03-25-2008, 05:05 AM
One can argue a lot here and there. LeBron is really a beat and valuable for his team, but I'd still take Garnett and CP3 over him when it comes down to picking the mvp. Without those two players, neither Boston nor New Orleans would be among the top contenders.

Supreme_Being
03-25-2008, 05:18 AM
A player's quality canNOT be measured by stats and numbers, but by heart.

2Cleva
03-25-2008, 07:37 AM
LeBron will get the same shaft Kobe did the past few couple of years. Great individual seasons but because of the lack of team success no chance at MVP.

Voters are going to hold it hard against LeBron that he couldn't lead the Cavs to 50 wins in a weak Eastern Conference.

KG already having one dampens his momentum. Paul likely gets the snub just because the writers who vote for these things figure younger players will get their due eventually.

ducks
03-25-2008, 09:53 AM
LeBron is the Most Valuable Player

The BestPlayerBestTeam award goes to

Kobe or Garnett or Paul (he will be an MVP with LeBron soon)
is his team in the top 5 in the east even :rolleyes

waly.mg
03-25-2008, 09:55 AM
Probably that Formula is Wrong

Because 30 Points are Equal than 20 points and 10 rebounds

mathbzh
03-25-2008, 09:57 AM
Probably that Formula is Wrong

Because 30 Points are Equal than 20 points and 10 rebounds

With no missed shot or TO

waly.mg
03-25-2008, 09:58 AM
All the NBA awards are Bull Shit

Because there are Season Awards, and the Season begin in the Playoffs

For example, the Final´s MVP isn´t in the ASG, and Manu never plays the game again after 2 Rings

In that game only One player od the NBA Champions, bull shit