Pistons beat the Suns today without Rip

[Manu_Ginobili]

Pistons beat the Suns today without Rip...I watched the game - Sheed was just great - he held up Amare down the stretch and made Shaq looked like a lousy retiree...The Suns lost a game they would've won - they are going to BOS on Wednesday where they will LOSE again, and if the Spurs beat ORLANDO and the next 2 teams at home - LAC and others, they will be 3rd (!!!) all of sudden...Sorry to say, but I don't see the Suns winning it all this year with this squad...The Spurs played much better at Detroit and lost barely in the end - Rip had a BIG GAME at the time - he was absent today, meaning at least (-15 points) for the Pistons, but they still won the game...BAD news for the Suns...

GO MANU!!!

[ducks]

suns play boston next I think
and then sixers

[bigfundamental21]

Tough stretch for the Suns. And they are going to Boston after the Celts just got beat by the Sixers.

[boutons_]

Celts, bouncing back, gonna be real ready for the Suns. ouch

[Manu_Ginobili]

Tough stretch for the Suns. And they are going to Boston after the Celts just got beat by the Sixers.

The Celts WILL PAY THEM BACK, "BIG TIME"...

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

If the Spurs didn't choke away that last game against the Suns they would be #3 in the west right now

[Manu_Ginobili]

If the Spurs didn't choke away that last game against the Suns they would be #3 in the west right now

don't worry, they will be Number 3 this week...guaranteed!

[himat]

The West standings changes with every game. Its crazy. Nash was very good again, but Chauncey dominated him and Bell.

[Nikos]

Billups IMO is the best PG in the game after Chris Paul. Yes, better then Steve Nash -- has a slightly higher PER, but I think he plays better defense. I would say Billups has even less talent around him than Nash.

Yes Hamilton shoots more, but Billups is clearly their MVP, and I think has been since their first title. Clutch, efficient, and just damn effective especially in the Pistons system. Still a very underrated player.

If anyone still remembers, he was the best player in the 2005 NBA Finals on either team -- well he was undoubtedly the most consistent -- and I would say the best player in that series (Manu was too quiet in Games 3,4 and 5), and Duncan wasn't that great on O.

[himat]

I think Nash is the best offensive PG hands down, but his defense is inconsistent. People never look at that anymore though.

Chauncey is very good when he takes it to the hole. I hate when he settles for threes even though he is good at them. Him and Sheed are some of the best shooters for there positions, but they are even better in the post.

[ducks]

nash gets careless alot though
why?

[Nikos]

I don't think people give Chauncey enough credit -- they simply dismiss his APG and PER numbers as only being a function of being on the Pistons and that on any other team his supposed lack of playmaking skills would surface. But not only is his PER and efficiency impressive, but he does seem to make many timely shots. Plays reasonable defense for the most part. When his shot is struggling he gets to the line, converts, doesn't make mistakes, and scores when needed. That to me is a very good offensive player in his own right. He isn't as creative as Nash in terms of getting his teamattes involved, but he is crafty in his own right -- and I think his overall game makes up for his lack of passing creativity (at least when compared to Nash).

[JamStone]

I think Suns beat the Celtics. I think Doc is starting to play the big three less since the #1 seed is pretty much locked up.

[jrod1986]

As much as the term is used, Chauncey definitely is one of the legitimate underrated players left in the NBA.

[ducks]

PER is a useless stat

[jacobdrj]

IMHO, as of today:
CP3>Deron Williams>Bips>Nash>J-Kidd>Baron Davis>Rest of field

[CarefreeAZ]

Pistons beat the Suns today without Rip...I watched the game - Sheed was just great - he held up Amare down the stretch and made Shaq looked like a lousy retiree...The Suns lost a game they would've won - they are going to BOS on Wednesday where they will LOSE again, and if the Spurs beat ORLANDO and the next 2 teams at home - LAC and others, they will be 3rd (!!!) all of sudden...Sorry to say, but I don't see the Suns winning it all this year with this squad...The Spurs played much better at Detroit and lost barely in the end - Rip had a BIG GAME at the time - he was absent today, meaning at least (-15 points) for the Pistons, but they still won the game...BAD news for the Suns...

GO MANU!!!

Your pretty much an idiot. If your giving Rip Hamilton 15 points for not playing, that takes away minutes and points from a bench player like Stuckey(also had around 15 points). This was an overtime game with 30 something lead changes and you say the Spurs played Detroit better?. Regarding Boston, they are going to want pay back because they lost to the sixers tonight and the last time Suns/Celtics met the Suns won. At least we could handle Boston when they had Garnett and the full squad. Spurs lost when they were minus Garnett and just recently choked a 20 point lead the last time you met.

[JamStone]

I don't think people give Chauncey enough credit -- they simply dismiss his APG and PER numbers as only being a function of being on the Pistons and that on any other team his supposed lack of playmaking skills would surface. But not only is his PER and efficiency impressive, but he does seem to make many timely shots. Plays reasonable defense for the most part. When his shot is struggling he gets to the line, converts, doesn't make mistakes, and scores when needed. That to me is a very good offensive player in his own right. He isn't as creative as Nash in terms of getting his teamattes involved, but he is crafty in his own right -- and I think his overall game makes up for his lack of passing creativity (at least when compared to Nash).


Billups gets plenty of credit. Game is just not very flashy. He's a solid point guard. And, his overall game is good to great in most aspects. He's overrated as a defender, but he's still better than most. He usually doesn't attack the rim like he did against Phoenix tonight, which says maybe Phoenix still needs to work on its half court defense even if it is already improved. He's definitely not the most creative passer but he's still better than average. Overall, I don't think it's a slight to him to say he's only a top 10 point guard when some Pistons would swear on their lives that he's a top 3 PG. But, the two areas that Chauncey really excels at which make him so valuable is that 1) for the most part, he plays very smart which is why his ast:to ratio has been so good the last few years, and 2) he is one of the better shooters at his position. Those two things alone, while not necessarily the most important qualities in a point guard have a lot to do with his success with the Pistons. And, while Larry Brown gets shitted on for a lot of his craziness, he gets a large amount of credit for making Chauncey the point guard he is today and has been for the past 4+ seasons.

[jacobdrj]

I think the East is a LOT better than we give it credit for, because defensive teams take a couple of times, generally, to find out how to lock down high powered offensive teams. The reason the Spurs are so successful is that they play East-Ball in the West...

I think our conference is just better, and the Suns, like most West teams, just aren't as good as their records may show. It will make for a fun playoffs, but the NBA champion, in all likelihood, looks like it is coming out of the East, or the Spurs...

Phili, Cleveland, and even Washington, not to mention Toronto and Orlando, are actually as good or BETTER than their matched-seeded counterparts...
I think even THEY are better than the West elite...

I think it is why the Bucks and the Heat are so bad, despite being the the East, they just don't play D.

I have to say, no Western team scares me, other than the Spurs. But the Cavs, Sixers, Wizards and Celtics do...

[himat]

I think the East is a LOT better than we give it credit for, because defensive teams take a couple of times, generally, to find out how to lock down high powered offensive teams. The reason the Spurs are so successful is that they play East-Ball in the West...


Boston and Detroit are the only teams that has a legitimate shot at winning it all in the East. There are at least 5 contenders in the West. Orlando and Cleveland may be able to have an amazing run and make it to the Finals, but I can't see them winning it all.

[jacobdrj]

Probably because they will run into either the Lakers or the Spurs, which is sort of my point.

[td4mvp21]

I think Suns beat the Celtics. I think Doc is starting to play the big three less since the #1 seed is pretty much locked up.

I would say the same but the Celtics just lost to the 76ers...at home. And after how they performed @ Phoenix the last time? I think they'll have a little revenge on their minds.

[Nikos]

Billups gets plenty of credit. Game is just not very flashy. He's a solid point guard. And, his overall game is good to great in most aspects. He's overrated as a defender, but he's still better than most. He usually doesn't attack the rim like he did against Phoenix tonight, which says maybe Phoenix still needs to work on its half court defense even if it is already improved. He's definitely not the most creative passer but he's still better than average. Overall, I don't think it's a slight to him to say he's only a top 10 point guard when some Pistons would swear on their lives that he's a top 3 PG. But, the two areas that Chauncey really excels at which make him so valuable is that 1) for the most part, he plays very smart which is why his ast:to ratio has been so good the last few years, and 2) he is one of the better shooters at his position. Those two things alone, while not necessarily the most important qualities in a point guard have a lot to do with his success with the Pistons. And, while Larry Brown gets shitted on for a lot of his craziness, he gets a large amount of credit for making Chauncey the point guard he is today and has been for the past 4+ seasons.

Ehh Top 10? At this point Billups is clearly a Top 5-6 PG regardless of system in all liklihood. Maybe he wouldn't have developed if it weren't for finding the right opportunity in Detroit, but thats another argument. Fine line between making it big in this league and not sometimes -- just finding the right team with a little luck can make all the difference. But I think at this point Billups skills translate well. He is a great shooter, efficient offensive player who can at times be a high volume offensive player. Solid defense. I think it is a slight to call him a lower tier Top 10 PG at this point. He has proven himself for 4-5 years now to be an All-Star caliber player and upper echelon PG ( easily Top 5-6).

[Manu_Ginobili]

Your pretty much an idiot. If your giving Rip Hamilton 15 points for not playing, that takes away minutes and points from a bench player like Stuckey(also had around 15 points). This was an overtime game with 30 something lead changes and you say the Spurs played Detroit better?. Regarding Boston, they are going to want pay back because they lost to the sixers tonight and the last time Suns/Celtics met the Suns won. At least we could handle Boston when they had Garnett and the full squad. Spurs lost when they were minus Garnett and just recently choked a 20 point lead the last time you met.

WHoo-WHoo-WHoo -save your foolish comments to some other board - no offensive language here, OK(!) - usually, when someone is weak and cannot say anything positive, he starts using slurs, which pretty much shows that his education and culture level is below ZERO...I don't even speak with "people" like that...either have civilized discussion or GET LOST...

[Tradition]

Billups IMO is the best PG in the game after Chris Paul. Yes, better then Steve Nash -- has a slightly higher PER, but I think he plays better defense. I would say Billups has even less talent around him than Nash.

Yes Hamilton shoots more, but Billups is clearly their MVP, and I think has been since their first title. Clutch, efficient, and just damn effective especially in the Pistons system. Still a very underrated player.

If anyone still remembers, he was the best player in the 2005 NBA Finals on either team -- well he was undoubtedly the most consistent -- and I would say the best player in that series (Manu was too quiet in Games 3,4 and 5), and Duncan wasn't that great on O.

I will take a healthy Baron Davis over Billups in a heartbeat. Baron is a legit superstar when he is healthy and playing his game. He can shoot, drive, post up, and is alot stronger and much more of a matchup issue than Billups is for a majority of teams. Billups is a nice all-star point guard who can do it all but he isnt a superstar.

[jacobdrj]

Baron can't stay healthy, otherwise I would agree. I would take a younger Kidd too... he is a better defender and passer, as well as an inferior shooter.

[CarefreeAZ]

WHoo-WHoo-WHoo -save your foolish comments to some other board - no offensive language here, OK(!) - usually, when someone is weak and cannot say anything positive, he starts using slurs, which pretty much shows that his education and culture level is below ZERO...I don't even speak with "people" like that...either have civilized discussion or GET LOST...

Your right, I should have continued my educational pursuits and finished that Master's Degree program. Who knows, I could have displayed it so eloquently like yourself by randomly capitalizing words and bolding paritial sentences.

[GaryJohnston]

Sheed really schooled Amare there at the end of the game.

[kskonn]

WHoo-WHoo-WHoo -save your foolish comments to some other board - no offensive language here, OK(!) - usually, when someone is weak and cannot say anything positive, he starts using slurs, which pretty much shows that his education and culture level is below ZERO...I don't even speak with "people" like that...either have civilized discussion or GET LOST...

Forum police??? :rolleyes

[kskonn]

Your right, I should have continued my educational pursuits and finished that Master's Degree program. Who knows, I could have displayed it so eloquently like yourself by randomly capitalizing words and bolding paritial sentences.


You should have finished that masters degree program, depending on your occupation it could greatly increase your earning power. From someone who did finish his Master degree program it is overated, I should have waited longer after getting my undergrad to go back, I would have gotten more out of the program.

[kskonn]

Sheed really schooled Amare there at the end of the game.


Sheed is still incredible when he has his head on straight and isn't constantly shooting 3's, probably the 2nd best all around pf in the game, when he wants to be.

[himat]

Sheed is still incredible when he has his head on straight and isn't constantly shooting 3's, probably the 2nd best all around pf in the game, when he wants to be.

I'll give him third behind TD and KG.

[peskypesky]

I'll give him third behind TD and KG.

You smoking?
I'd take a bunch of PF's before Sheed. TD, Garnett, Boozer, Bosh, Stoudamire, David West, Dirk, Elton Brand, Antawn Jamison and yeah, maybe even Pau Gasol.

[JamStone]

Think he meant Rasheed would be third...

"when he has his head on straight and isn't constantly shooting 3's... when he wants to be"

Rasheed has the talent to be the best PF in the league but he's not and has never been at any point in his career.

[StoneCutter]

I think the East is a LOT better than we give it credit for, because defensive teams take a couple of times, generally, to find out how to lock down high powered offensive teams. The reason the Spurs are so successful is that they play East-Ball in the West...

I think our conference is just better, and the Suns, like most West teams, just aren't as good as their records may show. It will make for a fun playoffs, but the NBA champion, in all likelihood, looks like it is coming out of the East, or the Spurs...

Phili, Cleveland, and even Washington, not to mention Toronto and Orlando, are actually as good or BETTER than their matched-seeded counterparts...
I think even THEY are better than the West elite...

I think it is why the Bucks and the Heat are so bad, despite being the the East, they just don't play D.

I have to say, no Western team scares me, other than the Spurs. But the Cavs, Sixers, Wizards and Celtics do...

I agree that the Pistons and the Celtics are as good or possibly better then any team in the West, but to say that Philadelphia, Washington, Toronto and Orlando are better then the West Elite is taking it too far IMHO.

[urunobili]

Boston and Detroit are the only teams that has a legitimate shot at winning it all in the East. There are at least 5 contenders in the West. Orlando and Cleveland may be able to have an amazing run and make it to the Finals, but I can't see them winning it all.
i think LeBron will make the Celtics pay on the second round... :spin

[Sec24Row7]

You smoking?
I'd take a bunch of PF's before Sheed. TD, Garnett, Boozer, Bosh, Stoudamire, David West, Dirk, Elton Brand, Antawn Jamison and yeah, maybe even Pau Gasol.


You are smoking crack.

TD, Sheed, KG.

That is the correct ranking for Power Forwards in the league.

Sheed has the COMPLETE package... and if he had a mind to do it... might be #1... But he doesn't.

[SouthernFried]

ayup, Billups is underrated. Always has been as far as I can recall. Same with the Detroit team.

I would say the Spurs have been underrated, but, after 4 Championships, even if they are stinkin' it up...everybody's watching 'em. "Yeah, they look horrible right now...but they always do this. I ain't counting them out of anything."

Hell, we're probably even a little overrated this year.

Still, my dream finals is Detroit vs. SA. Wanted it last year, but I can't say I'm unhappy with the outcome ;)

[bdubya]

Rip was out, which costs us a few points, but Lindsey was in, which probably cost Phx a few too.

There were blown calls going both ways, but the Suns got the brunt of it, and still took it to OT in spite of the home cooking. Not bad; I'd have to say they played the Pistons a little tougher than the Spurs did.

[JamStone]

I will take a healthy Baron Davis over Billups in a heartbeat. Baron is a legit superstar when he is healthy and playing his game. He can shoot, drive, post up, and is alot stronger and much more of a matchup issue than Billups is for a majority of teams. Billups is a nice all-star point guard who can do it all but he isnt a superstar.

Baron Davis is by far the better talent. Not sure if he's a better point guard. I would take Baron over Billups if it were based just on athleticism and explosiveness. But, Baron does has his flaws as a point guard. He doesn't really control tempo, he has bad shot selection, and could be a better free throw shooter.

Being a superstar doesn't make you automatically the better player. Manu Ginobili isn't near the superstar Dwyane Wade is, but I take Manu over Wade.

[O-Factor]

I think Suns beat the Celtics. I think Doc is starting to play the big three less since the #1 seed is pretty much locked up.

I think the Celts playing Cassell more has kind of hurt them a bit. But maybe they are just trying to get him acclimated for the playoffs

[DDS4]

Baron Davis is by far the better talent. Not sure if he's a better point guard. I would take Baron over Billups if it were based just on athleticism and explosiveness. But, Baron does has his flaws as a point guard. He doesn't really control tempo, he has bad shot selection, and could be a better free throw shooter.

Being a superstar doesn't make you automatically the better player. Manu Ginobili isn't near the superstar Dwyane Wade is, but I take Manu over Wade.


BD and Billups have different responsibilities on their respective teams.

BD is a shoot first PG and the first option on the Warriors. Billups is asked to run the team and if needed, bail out the offense if play breaks down or if there's no time on the shot clock.

Almost two different positions IMO.

[himat]

Just to show you how good Sheed is (This made me want a Spurs-Pistons rematch badly)

VhfQr7gmYqA&feature=related

[TampaDude]

Just to show you how good Sheed is (This made me want a Spurs-Pistons rematch badly)

+1 It would be another one for the ages...probably go 7 games again, too...Spurs and Pistons for all the marbles...LET'S GET IT ON!!! :toast