the #1 sign the USA is becoming totalitarian.

[inconvertible]

when both democrats and republicans call for gun control.........that is when you better start arming yourself to the teeth.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, the gubment is really after me.

[inconvertible]

the constitution has the second amendment for one reason, at it was not so you could go rabbit hunting when ever you want.

dumbass.

[ChumpDumper]

They haven't taken my muzzle-loading musket yet.

[inconvertible]

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/FIP/PT-00007-C~Don-t-Tread-on-Me-Flag-Battle-Scene-Posters.jpg

[inconvertible]

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/2058969.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=BD6FD7A454582B48216A0A7064C923CCA55A1E4F32AD3138

[boutons_]

Since dubya occupied Iran,
4000 US military deaths, and
4000 US accidental gun deaths.

[smeagol]

Ahhh . . . guns . . . what an important issue!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Since dubya occupied Iran,
4000 US military deaths, and
4000 US accidental gun deaths.Iraq

[Heath Ledger]

If you think things with guns are bad now, imagaine a world where only the criminals and military have them. Violent crime has gone up drasticly since Australia, Uk took away their guns. Canada for some strange reason has a very low gun related incident percentage per capita. Oh that's right they are yellow up there...

[DarkReign]

Ahhh . . . guns . . . what an important issue!

It most certainly is. I would predict it will the most important issue very, very soon.

[101A]

Ahhh . . . guns . . . what an important issue!You hate your government more than any person on this board hates their own. Yours is the most corrupt and totalitarian (relatively speaking). Think about it.

[101A]

Since dubya occupied Iran,
4000 US military deaths, and
4000 US accidental gun deaths.
So the war's not that bad.

Thanks.

[peewee's lovechild]

I want a missile launcher and a grenade launcher.

It's my right under the 2nd amendment.
I have the right to bear arms.

I'll take a tank too.

Maybe a flame thrower . . .

[smeagol]

It most certainly is. I would predict it will the most important issue very, very soon.



I trust the government to ensure my well-being and safety
:rolleyes



You hate your government more than any person on this board hates their own. Yours is the most corrupt and totalitarian (relatively speaking). Think about it.

Nice to see there is an issue that unites liberals and conservatives . . .

[smeagol]

I want a missile launcher and a grenade launcher.

It's my right under the 2nd amendment.
I have the right to bear arms.

I'll take a tank too.

Maybe a flame thrower . . .

The crazy thing is I find myself agreeing with peewee :fro

[smeagol]

You hate your government more than any person on this board hates their own. Yours is the most corrupt and totalitarian (relatively speaking). Think about it.

So owning a gun is the solution . . . ?

Okie dokie

[peewee's lovechild]

This issue is beyond retarded.

Pro-gunners say that the 2nd Amendment gaurantees them the right to bear arms. This obviously covers, according to them, weapons not used for hunting. You know, assault rifles, uzis, gernade launchers, nukes . . . etc.

When asked why they would need this they say:

That was put in the Constitution to make sure the government won't take advantage of it's people. (or some retarded shit like that)

Now, let's say that the government is taking advantage of us. Like let's say . . . raping our civil liberties by tapping our phones, illegal searches and seizures, suspending habeas corpus, fighting a war that Americans (the people) don't want to fight, etc.

So, by using the pro-gunners rationale . . . we should be able to overthrow our government if it in fact ceases from acting the way we see it fit.

But, doing so would be considered treasonous by these very same people.

So, exactly why the hell do we need access to these weapons? And just how the hell does it makes any safer?

[BonnerDynasty]

Come and take them.

Fuck anyone who thinks they can tell me what I should drive and what I should and should not have for my own protection.

I laugh at you.

[Yonivore]

This issue is beyond retarded.

Pro-gunners say that the 2nd Amendment gaurantees them the right to bear arms. This obviously covers, according to them, weapons not used for hunting. You know, assault rifles, uzis, gernade launchers, nukes . . . etc.

When asked why they would need this they say:

That was put in the Constitution to make sure the government won't take advantage of it's people. (or some retarded shit like that)

Now, let's say that the government is taking advantage of us. Like let's say . . . raping our civil liberties by tapping our phones, illegal searches and seizures, suspending habeas corpus, fighting a war that Americans (the people) don't want to fight, etc.

So, by using the pro-gunners rationale . . . we should be able to overthrow our government if it in fact ceases from acting the way we see it fit.
I think you mischaracterize the rationale.

All Americans have the right to be free from government interference and oppression. If, in order to do so, an American feels he must take up arms and take on the government, that is his right -- and some would say his duty. The constitution, including the 2nd amendment, guarantees our right to do so.

It does not, however, guarantee we're right or that we'll succeed in our endeavor. It also doesn't guarantee we won't be held accountable (by the standards imposed by the government we attempted to overthrow) or that other Americans will agree with our choice of action and not call us treasonous.


But, doing so would be considered treasonous by these very same people.
Especially if I don't agree with you. You see, I just conveyed my belief that you have a constitutional right to bear arms to both protect yourself and to engage in armed rebellion without saying you have a constitutional right to be right.


So, exactly why the hell do we need access to these weapons? And just how the hell does it makes any safer?
It probably wouldn't make you any safer.

[inconvertible]

you have a right to bear arms to deter a tyrannical govt.

[smeagol]

you have a right to bear arms to deter a tyrannical govt.
And that is the one and only reason why the gun-nuts own weapons :rolleyes

Wake me up when ya'll have to take your 45 milimiters and Uzis to overthough a Democrat or Republican governement (or Nader's or Perot's governemnt, for that matter). :lol

[Yonivore]

And that is the one and only reason why the gun-nuts own weapons :rolleyes
It doesn't have to be the one and only reason.

[smeagol]

It doesn't have to be the one and only reason.

I know . . . you have to be prepared to shoot down that pesky mugger because the police does a shitty job at it.

Ohh . . . and you also hage to blow up some squirrells.

[peewee's lovechild]

I think you mischaracterize the rationale.

All Americans have the right to be free from government interference and oppression. If, in order to do so, an American feels he must take up arms and take on the government, that is his right -- and some would say his duty. The constitution, including the 2nd amendment, guarantees our right to do so.


So, why is it considered treason to do so if all we're doing is exercising our right as described in the Constitution?




It does not, however, guarantee we're right or that we'll succeed in our endeavor. It also doesn't guarantee we won't be held accountable (by the standards imposed by the government we attempted to overthrow) or that other Americans will agree with our choice of action and not call us treasonous.


So, if over 50% of the American (a majority) population agrees that our government has become so corrupt so as validate an overthrow, it will cease to be treason and become our "duty" to overthrow said government?




It probably wouldn't make you any safer.



It doesn't.

And that's why we should regulate what weapons people can buy.

[peewee's lovechild]

Come and take them.

Fuck anyone who thinks they can tell me what I should drive and what I should and should not have for my own protection.

I laugh at you.


Oh yea, you're such a badass.

I can see you taking on a force all by yourself.

You're fucking Rambo.

[Purple & Gold]

Nice to see there is an issue that unites liberals and conservatives . . .

I'm a gun tooting liberal :spin

[DarkReign]

Do you own a gun Peewee? Thats an off topic question....answer if you like....

Back OT.

Here is my belief on gun ownership, this isnt law or common knowledge, its just my opinion.

I was raised with firearms since I can remember. All firearms, legal and illegal. I havent killed anyone and I am pretty sure no one in my family has either (in civilian life anyway).

Youre right. Our government is undoubtedly corrupt. Its bordering on totalitarian and is starting to redefine the term clandestine. All this is, in my belief, true.

Problem is, as you might have noticed by just this very small slice of the internet we call Spurstalk, not many people give a rats ass. At least, thats the benefit of the doubt I give them. Some might say theyre clueless, stupid, ignorant and deserve this world by their constant inaction and government dependence. But thats a pessimists view.

As it were, the people who care/know at least have a constituional recourse in the event that the government does overstep its bounds.

You might argue it already has and has for quite some time. You get no argument from me.

But the point is, what you see today in the US government is by no means what it will be in 20 years. Who knows? Maybe another 9/11 happens, or multiple 9/11s, and the sheep beg their sheppard to protect them from the wolves by any means necessary.

It is my opinion that this government will, in my lifetime, become the Big Brother in totality we all read about in Orwell's 1984 with obvious cosmetic differences, but the overall complexion will be the same.

Most of the masses will be compliant and duly medicated for their life troubles wondering how it got to be so bad so quickly, with no inclination for the previous steps taken by the elite to rule. Others will not be so unready.

You may not believe that, but it doesnt matter. There are, right now, people who truly believe this day will come and they are preparing. You laugh at them now as cooks and maniacs, but its going to be those same weirdos providing an alternative to the status quo some day (or their children).

At least then I will have 2 choices....die on my feet or live on my knees. Obvoious answer, right? Not so much for most people. Most people are cowards so afraid of death theyd doing nearly anything to avoid it. Studies have shown the lengths by which ordinary people will go for self preservation, even if its the death and persecution of complete strangers, foreign or domestic. The difference will come when those same people being marched to their death are domestic that a shift will take place.

Will it be too late? Son, it already is. The track we find ourselves on is unavoidable. The Elite have already won, this timeline we find ourselves in is just mop-up duty. So thank your grandparents and great-grandparents for the inevitable when it happens.

I fear for the world when thinking of an over-arching American agenda that encompasses all walks of life, both large and small. Wait....isnt there already one? Hmmm....

The absolute best you can hope for is an all-out war of the world. Ancient proverb (Greek or Latin, cant remember), "A bad peace is worse than war" (or something similar). We are in a bad peace. War is the only recourse, be it by death or victory.

Mind you, Im not that stupid to think that is an absolute at this point in time. But inevitably, it will be...or at least, I hope it will be. I long for the day of Us and Them. Maybe I die the first day, maybe I dont. Either way, it will be glorious to finally stand on my principles to the death.

You want safety? Protect this government.
You want security? Protect this government.
You want freedom? Yeah....freedom. A philosopher's stone if there ever was one.

There is no such thing as freedom in a world of man. The strong will rule, the weak will be subjugated either by compliance or conquest. It was true in Greece. It was true in Rome. It was true in Babylon, Macedon, Persia, China, Japan, Byzantium, Zulu, Aztec, Inca and it is most definitely true in America.

Freedom is a word bandied about by the ruling class as an opiate for the masses to continue their delusion of control. When in reality, something by which everyone routinely avoids, there is no such thing as freedom...not in this world. Because the Many are quite incapable of control and order. Thats why the Few always rule the Many. One would like to romanticize that in this day and age we the Many are quite capable, which is the furthest from truth in all of time by comparison. Ancient peoples, and even people from the 19th century (maybe even into the 20th century) were far more self-reliant than any person on this planet today. Food, shelter, culture, etc.

The fact is, we the Many have never been more incapable of true ruling freedom. Far too much time spent on leisure and entertainment, fattened by the work and world penetration of our forefathers to bother with the mundane aspects of living.

So, to answer the thread on gun control, or a lack thereof. At some point the Many will realize the Few are unfit, and see their removal. May not happen in America, if we are even called that at that time. But in the smallest percent of chance that I may see that wonderful day, I sure would like to participate in such events with my gas-powered AR-15 assault rifle, thank you.

[smeagol]

That almost made me cry . . .

[smeagol]

In Argentina, the government, in its evergrowing wisdom, has recently instated additional taxes on exports of soft commoditties. This has caused an uproar from the farmes, who have taked the streets and are picketting everywhere. Soon, it looks like there are going to be food shortages.

Having guns is looking like a plausible option at this point . . .

[DarkReign]

Having guns is looking like a plausible option at this point . . .

Just wait until the US dollar has the buying power of the Mexican peso.

The Peewee's of the world will change their tune.

[RandomGuy]

It is my opinion that this government will, in my lifetime, become the Big Brother in totality we all read about in Orwell's 1984 with obvious cosmetic differences, but the overall complexion will be the same.

I disagree. I do believe it will become harder and harder to keep personal information private over time, but the "Big Brother" scenario is highly unlikely.


I wish there were some way of betting on this, because I would love to profit from people who believe like this.

At some point within the next couple of years, I am going to find a lawyer or feduciary of some sort, buy about 4-5 ounces of gold and put that up as collateral for a futures contract.

So many people think this kind of stuff, and believe in say, the big scary North American Union, that I could make a killing.

[smeagol]

Just wait until the US dollar has the buying power of the Mexican peso.

The Peewee's of the world will change their tune.

That means the American people are not as sturdy as I thought.

We had to deal with 5000% yearly inflation . . . twice . . . milatary coups, shitty governemnts, the freezing of our banks deposits . . . and here we are, fucked up, but still standing.

And our farmers have guns . . .

[Purple & Gold]

perhaps the iraq war is a pretext to train the military on how to engage in urban warfare against guerilla groups?

that's some good tactics to know in case the gubmint decides to occupy the u.s.....

just saying...

Well now that all the gang members have gone to war and returned they are now using their new found wisdom back in the streets after they served their time in the military.

[DarkReign]

and i bet they're damn glad they have guns

thing is, if our country goes to hell, we won't have an america to run off to

Damn good point.

[DarkReign]

I disagree. I do believe it will become harder and harder to keep personal information private over time, but the "Big Brother" scenario is highly unlikely.


I wish there were some way of betting on this, because I would love to profit from people who believe like this.

At some point within the next couple of years, I am going to find a lawyer or feduciary of some sort, buy about 4-5 ounces of gold and put that up as collateral for a futures contract.

So many people think this kind of stuff, and believe in say, the big scary North American Union, that I could make a killing.

You dont believe the NAU as a reality? Or some derivative thereof?

We'll certainly see. I'll save the "I told you so" when it does.

[fyatuk]

So, why is it considered treason to do so if all we're doing is exercising our right as described in the Constitution?

It's the right of the people as a whole to overthrow the government. A few people without the support of the majority doesn't meet the qualifications.

Of course, it's not like every gun owning civilian in the US could really take on the military in an armed rebellion anymore anyway. The founders were thinking in terms of muskets v. muskets in such a rebellion, not dealing with tanks, apc's, etc.



And that's why we should regulate what weapons people can buy.

Not that I truly disagree with you. I'd rather see a licensing system that required yearly marksmanship and safety qualifications (of course, for a fee based on class of gun, hunting rifles would be dirt cheap, handguns a bit more, high powered weapons really expensive) for each class of gun we decide to allow combined with assigning responsibility to the owner of a gun for any crime committed with it.

[smeagol]

It is not about taking guns away from "the people".

It is about regulating gun sales the same way other products are regulated.

[RandomGuy]

You dont believe the NAU as a reality? Or some derivative thereof?

We'll certainly see. I'll save the "I told you so" when it does.

If you water down the defintion of "NAU" to the point of being so general as to be useless, sure.

You want to make a firm bet on the "Amero"?

I would be willing to bet a good 4 ounces of gold that won't happen anytime within the next 4 years. This seems to be the consensus in the "be afraid of the big bad NAU" circles. I can start a sinking fund and have that 4 ounces available by 2012. All we would need to do is find a neutral feduciary to execute the contract.

Don't save the "I told you so." I most certainly won't. Although if you take up my offer for the futures contract and it goes my way, I would certainly be a bit more restrained about it. ;)

[Yonivore]

So, why is it considered treason to do so if all we're doing is exercising our right as described in the Constitution?
Because, as I said, you have no constitutional guarantee that you're right.

If you take up arms against the United States government and fail to assemble a force sufficient to overthrow it, you're likely to be tried for treason and adjudicated accordingly.

The constitution also does not guarantee you'll have any sympathy or agreement from other Americans for your cause.

So, before you exercise your constitutionally protected right to overthrow a tyrannical American government, you might want to make sure that a) there is broad agreement, b) similar level of interest in an armed rebellion, and c) that you have enough weaponry to do it.


So, if over 50% of the American (a majority) population agrees that our government has become so corrupt so as validate an overthrow, it will cease to be treason and become our "duty" to overthrow said government?
No. It's still treason if you fail.


It doesn't.

And that's why we should regulate what weapons people can buy.
Are you going to also regulate the physics that makes is possible to develop arms? Can you regulate a drug cartel, skinhead group, Mexican mafia, etc... that employs a master gunsmith capable of churning out sufficient weaponry, for their needs, from raw materials and money -- of which there is plenty in those environments? With a precision lathe and not much else, a competent person can duplicate just about any weapon out there.

[BradLohaus]

You want to make a firm bet on the "Amero"?

I would be willing to bet a good 4 ounces of gold that won't happen anytime within the next 4 years. This seems to be the consensus in the "be afraid of the big bad NAU" circles.

Yeah, some of those people are too far ahead. I wouldn't bet 4 cents that there will be an Amero by 2012.

And I liked your post DR. One thing that gets me about gun control is that the the government has already shown that, in its opinion, we don't have a God given right to gun possesion; we have a government granted right and they can take them whenever they want, as long as it's an "emergency". Which is, of course, when you need a gun the most.

[smeagol]

God given right to own guns . . . ? :LOL