Vast Antarctic ice shelf on verge of collapse

[Twisted_Dawg]

Global Warming.....its here to stay. Don't be fooled by that colder than usual winter in the northern Hemisphere.....We're talking long term baby.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23797247

[Wild Cobra]

The Ice Shelves break off every year at one or more places. Simple physics. As the ice gets thicker. There is cracks and melting, but none of this is because of Global Warming. It has been occuring for a very long time.

Follow the money...

Who profits from the global warming scare?

[Extra Stout]

The Antarctic Ice Sheet as a whole had the greatest thickness ever recorded in the Southern Hemisphere Winter of 2007, at the same time the Arctic Ice Sheet was experiencing record recession.

Discussing the recession of ice on the Antarctic Peninsula while omitting any discussion of conditions elsewhere in Antarctica amounts to cherry-picking.

The more I see these media reports promoting hysteria, which are detached from the greater narrative being revealed by data, I more I believe the skeptics.

[Twisted_Dawg]

The Ice Shelves break off every year at one or more places. Simple physics. As the ice gets thicker. There is cracks and melting, but none of this is because of Global Warming. It has been occuring for a very long time.

Follow the money...

Who profits from the global warming scare?

link please.

[Twisted_Dawg]

The Antarctic Ice Sheet as a whole had the greatest thickness ever recorded in the Southern Hemisphere Winter of 2007, at the same time the Arctic Ice Sheet was experiencing record recession.

Discussing the recession of ice on the Antarctic Peninsula while omitting any discussion of conditions elsewhere in Antarctica amounts to cherry-picking.

The more I see these media reports promoting hysteria, which are detached from the greater narrative being revealed by data, I more I believe the skeptics.

Link please.

[Wild Cobra]

Why should we link any data? You didn't.

The MSNBC (modern communist news broadcast corporation) gave only observation without any real data to support their theory.

I know it's on the NASA site someplace... If I find it in a few minutes, I'll link it. I only have about 15 minutes before I must get off the computer right now.

[Extra Stout]

Link please.
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Antarctic.jpg
News reports of this data are hard to find. I wonder why?

[Wild Cobra]

Well, I don' recall where the source was, but I think it was NOAA rather than NASA. I do recall now listing the site in another related thread recently.

Damn this site...

Search is disabled!

[jochhejaam]

Global Warming.....its here to stay. Don't be fooled by that colder than usual winter in the northern Hemisphere.....We're talking long term baby.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23797247
Even if it is the looming castastrophy some claim it to be, we are no more capable of stopping it than we are of controlling worldwide population growth <another 2.9 billion by 2025. Link provided upon request>.

And a global carbon tax isn't going to stop Global Warming any more than a global sterilization tax would stem population growth.




If.

[Don Quixote]

Yes ... the sky is falling!

I knew it.

[Don Quixote]

I think I'm going to get in on this carbon credit thing/scam. I can print them out and charge $1 for each one. I'll make a killing taking liberal dollars.

But, you say, I'm not actually providing a service to the poor tormented souls! I contend that I am. I am helping them feel better about themselves, to assuage their guilt, to help them find some absolution for their sins. I'd be providing them a valuable service, and for $1, it's a bargain.

[T Park]

I think I'm going to get in on this carbon credit thing/scam. I can print them out and charge $1 for each one. I'll make a killing taking liberal dollars.

But, you say, I'm not actually providing a service to the poor tormented souls! I contend that I am. I am helping them feel better about themselves, to assuage their guilt, to help them find some absolution for their sins. I'd be providing them a valuable service, and for $1, it's a bargain.


Go for it, Al Gores made a fortune off of it.

[Wild Cobra]

Remember. X-Ray posted this one:

Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
Michael Asher (Blog) - February 26, 2008 12:55 PM (http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooli ng/article10866.htm). First paragraph:


Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.

I posted this one:

Climate orthodoxy perpetrates a hoax
Monday, February 25, 2008
GORDON FULKS (http://www.oregonlive.com/commentary/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/1203731757171220.xml&coll=7)

Now I went through the last 3 months of thread titles, and either the link I posted was pruned, or I missed it. I did post an article and pics regarding the Northern Ice cap, and it covered the ice regrowth on Antarctica too.

If the search feature wasn't off, I might be able to find it.

[Wild Cobra]

I think I'm going to get in on this carbon credit thing/scam. I can print them out and charge $1 for each one. I'll make a killing taking liberal dollars.

Don't forget to get into water purification companies in the near future before clean water becomes rare. With the push for bio fuels, water will become an expensive commodity as well. Those of us who are smart will get in on the ground level.

[DarrinS]

The Earth has warmed a staggering 1 degree Celcius in the last 100 years. Should I move my family to higher ground?

:wakeup

[Viva Las Espuelas]

The Ice Shelves break off every year at one or more places. Simple physics. As the ice gets thicker. There is cracks and melting, but none of this is because of Global Warming. It has been occuring for a very long time.

Follow the money...

Who profits from the global warming scare?NBC and parent company GE. follow that money trail.

[xrayzebra]

Remember. X-Ray posted this one:

Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
Michael Asher (Blog) - February 26, 2008 12:55 PM (http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooli ng/article10866.htm). First paragraph:



I posted this one:

Climate orthodoxy perpetrates a hoax
Monday, February 25, 2008
GORDON FULKS (http://www.oregonlive.com/commentary/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/1203731757171220.xml&coll=7)

Now I went through the last 3 months of thread titles, and either the link I posted was pruned, or I missed it. I did post an article and pics regarding the Northern Ice cap, and it covered the ice regrowth on Antarctica too.

If the search feature wasn't off, I might be able to find it.

WC, one part of the story that was omitted from the
original one that started this thread:

"Much of the continent is not warming and some parts are even cooling, Vaughan said. However, the western peninsula, which includes the Wilkins ice shelf, juts out into the ocean and is warming. This is the part of the continent where scientists are most concern about ice-melt triggering sea level rise."

Now common sense tells me something is wrong with a
theory that says we have global warming and cite the
ice shelf meltdown and in the same story tell you that
most of the continent is not warming and cooling down.

And here is the link to my story:


Cooling down not heating up (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080325/ap_on_sc/antarctica_collapse)

[Don Quixote]

The Earth has warmed a staggering 1 degree Celcius in the last 100 years. Should I move my family to higher ground?

:wakeup

If you live in San Antonio, you're probably safe. If you live in New Orleans East, like I do, you might want to buy flood insurance.

Then again, if I make what I think I'll make from my carbon-credit business, who cares? I can move to Covington!

[jacobdrj]

I am sorry to say, the Earth is not a static place, but a living breathing system that changes constantly.

Difference is that now we have tremendous record keeping.

It sucked when algae came and polluted the atmosphere with waste oxygen back in the Precambrian. Probably sucked at the end of the Cretaceous when a couple of asteroids and a few mega volcanoes killed everything off. A few thousand years ago the planet went into deep freeze mode that killed a bunch of stuff off, as did the resulting meltdown. Some of those species were around, like the Mammoth, as late as 5000 years ago. Go figure. Maybe the Earth is warming up. Last time I checked, humans are part of the environment, not living in the environment.

I think economics will play a big role in the problems reflected here. As an American, there is little I can do to control other countries pollution policies short of going to war. I think people wanting clean air for the purpose of having less asthma and more sunshine will prompt people to make laws hear, and when other countries get to that point when their people give a crap about the water they drink and the air they breath, they will make those same laws, or die. If there are catastrophes from an increase in world temperature, then the population will simply go down or adapt.

IMHO people shouldn't have been living in NO to begin with. A city, surrounded by a huge volatile river, in a hurricane zone, that is below sea-level and sinking... Hmm, what is wrong with that statement. They only had like 3 warnings with incidents like the 1993 floods, and countless close call hurricanes... not to mention the wiping of Galveston off the face of the planet not 100 years ago...

I am for saving those people that were there. But I am against rebuilding it with taxpayer money...

Rant over, for now.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I am sorry to say, the Earth is not a static place, but a living breathing system that changes constantly.

Difference is that now we have tremendous record keeping.

It sucked when algae came and polluted the atmosphere with waste oxygen back in the Precambrian. Probably sucked at the end of the Cretaceous when a couple of asteroids and a few mega volcanoes killed everything off. A few thousand years ago the planet went into deep freeze mode that killed a bunch of stuff off, as did the resulting meltdown. Some of those species were around, like the Mammoth, as late as 5000 years ago. Go figure. Maybe the Earth is warming up. Last time I checked, humans are part of the environment, not living in the environment.

I think economics will play a big role in the problems reflected here. As an American, there is little I can do to control other countries pollution policies short of going to war. I think people wanting clean air for the purpose of having less asthma and more sunshine will prompt people to make laws hear, and when other countries get to that point when their people give a crap about the water they drink and the air they breath, they will make those same laws, or die. If there are catastrophes from an increase in world temperature, then the population will simply go down or adapt.

IMHO people shouldn't have been living in NO to begin with. A city, surrounded by a huge volatile river, in a hurricane zone, that is below sea-level and sinking... Hmm, what is wrong with that statement. They only had like 3 warnings with incidents like the 1993 floods, and countless close call hurricanes... not to mention the wiping of Galveston off the face of the planet not 100 years ago...

I am for saving those people that were there. But I am against rebuilding it with taxpayer money...

Rant over, for now.

The gall of asthma sufferers wanting to be able to breathe clean air... obviously libs..

[jacobdrj]

The gall of asthma sufferers wanting to be able to breathe clean air... obviously libs..
I do believe that that manor of thought would fall under liberal mantra rather than that of the conservative, yes.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I do believe that that manor of thought would fall under liberal mantra rather than that of the conservative, yes.


would you think someone is entitled to being able to breath clean air?

[xrayzebra]

I love the crap and about clean water and clean air, as if anyone
wants either. Get real.

Wonder why someone doesn't complain about all the fireworks
that are shot off in dear old SA on holidays. You know how they
bother animals and some people. But no one I know of on here
has ever objected to them. Guess you like them.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I love the crap and about clean water and clean air, as if anyone
wants either. Get real.

Wonder why someone doesn't complain about all the fireworks
that are shot off in dear old SA on holidays. You know how they
bother animals and some people. But no one I know of on here
has ever objected to them. Guess you like them.


Do want clean air and water ray?

[jacobdrj]

You can argue the ethics of some of the laws, but you can't argue much with the results: My dad lived in LA during the 70's and 80's. He moved out and then visited for the 1st time since last summer. His first comments about his trip went something like 'I had no idea there were mountains viewable from The Valley... I guess that was why they called it The Valley. And I could breath!'

I thought that was kind of funny.

Besides, who likes winter anyway? ;)

[IceColdBrewski]

So all the extra ice on the continent is pushing the ice shelf out to sea and it melts and weakens.

A special congrats goes out to the Cambridge-based British Antarctic Survey for taking this long to confirm Archimedes' displacement of a liquid law.

[xrayzebra]

Here is an interesting little video. All about a possible new light
bulb.

http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13568_22-192842.html?tag=nl.e550

[fyatuk]

Wonder why someone doesn't complain about all the fireworks that are shot off in dear old SA on holidays. You know how they
bother animals and some people. But no one I know of on here
has ever objected to them. Guess you like them.

I hate fireworks. They annoy the hell out of me. So a couple times a year I close out the outside world and try to ignore the noise :p:

just thought I'd share.

[RandomGuy]

Here is an interesting little video. All about a possible new light
bulb.

http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13568_22-192842.html?tag=nl.e550


Very impressive. More light for half the power would do a great deal towards energy independence...

[Don Quixote]

Here is an interesting little video. All about a possible new light
bulb.

http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13568_22-192842.html?tag=nl.e550

So this light bulb will save the planet, eh? Oh well, at least I can tell people I'm going green. Actually, if anyone asks me this, I'll pull out my wallet and lay a stack of Benjamins (okay, Washingtons!) on the table and say, "this is the only GREEN I believe in!"

But if the bulb will save me $$$, then I'm all for them. Really.

[Wild Cobra]

Wow... part of an article:


The plasma bulb uses 250 watts, and achieves around 140 lumens per watt, making it very bright and highly efficient. By comparison, conventional lightbulbs and high-end LEDs get around 15 and 70 lumens per watt, respectively.

Luxim's tiny plasma lightbulb outshines LEDs
by Lisa Zyga (http://www.physorg.com/news125238861.html)

I use the compact fluorescent and planed to switch to the LED bulbs soon. Maybe I'll wait for these, assuming they can be made to lower power levels.

[dimsah]

Wow... part of an article:



Luxim's tiny plasma lightbulb outshines LEDs
by Lisa Zyga (http://www.physorg.com/news125238861.html)

I use the compact fluorescent and planed to switch to the LED bulbs soon. Maybe I'll wait for these, assuming they can be made to lower power levels.
What? You don't want a 35,000 lumen bulb?
It would be like your own little sunrise.

[RandomGuy]

Wow... part of an article:



Luxim's tiny plasma lightbulb outshines LEDs
by Lisa Zyga (http://www.physorg.com/news125238861.html)

I use the compact fluorescent and planed to switch to the LED bulbs soon. Maybe I'll wait for these, assuming they can be made to lower power levels.

I kind of doubt it.

Remember that the light comes from plasma (super-heated gas).

It would take quite some time to scale that down to a light bulb suitable for houses, I would imagine.

[xrayzebra]

Wow... part of an article:



Luxim's tiny plasma lightbulb outshines LEDs
by Lisa Zyga (http://www.physorg.com/news125238861.html)

I use the compact fluorescent and planed to switch to the LED bulbs soon. Maybe I'll wait for these, assuming they can be made to lower power levels.

I didn't know they made LED for the home. I know about
the flashlights, have one, but I cant recall see bulbs for
the home. How expensive are they?

RG you said "I kind of doubt it.

Remember that the light comes from plasma (super-heated gas).

It would take quite some time to scale that down to a light bulb suitable for houses, I would imagine."

If I remember correctly the rated this new bulb by
wattage, couldn't they just scale down on the amount
of watts used? I could be wrong and probably am.
To simple.

[Wild Cobra]

What? You don't want a 35,000 lumen bulb?
It would be like your own little sunrise.
It would make a great porch light!

[Wild Cobra]

I kind of doubt it.

Remember that the light comes from plasma (super-heated gas).

It would take quite some time to scale that down to a light bulb suitable for houses, I would imagine.
I think so too, and come to think about it, I'll bet they are no more efficient than th new LED bulbs available if they were reduced in size.

I have used the flourescents for some time now. I recently replaced all with the FEIT Daylight series and gave my regular compacts to my neighbor. They have a few lumens less than the regular compacts, but they have a better color spectrum over the soft white. I bought six cases of 12 when Lowes had them on sale for $0.99 each.

Watts/Equivalent/Lumens

13/60/800
18/75/1100
23/100/1500

There is an 800 lumen LED bulb available that uses les than 8 watts. That places it well above the 70 watts the article says at at least 100 lumens per watt:

http://www.ccrane.com/images/large/geobulb-led-light-bulb.jpg (http://www.ccrane.com/lights/led-light-bulbs/index.aspx)

There's also a 9 watt version said to be ewuivalent to 70 watts, but it only 308 lument in clear of 594 in frosted That doesn't make sense, but tghey claim it's due to the color:

http://i.treehugger.com/images/2007-2-15/led_bulbs.jpg (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/02/led_bulb_replac.php)

Click on pics for links...

[Wild Cobra]

If I remember correctly the rated this new bulb by
wattage, couldn't they just scale down on the amount
of watts used? I could be wrong and probably am.
To simple.
It isn't that simple. I'm not certain, but I think as you reduct the charge on the gas, you have a near linear effect, but you cannot reduce the heating in a linear manner. As you approach low power usages, you don't have enough heat for the plasma. Assuming that is true, it gets more efficent as you increase the size and less efficient as you decrease it. It may be the volume vs. surface area instead, which would make the changes even more dramatic. I'm just making an educated guess here.

[Don Quixote]

So do I have any takers for my carbon credits?

I have many left over.

[xrayzebra]

I think so too, and come to think about it, I'll bet they are no more efficient than th new LED bulbs available if they were reduced in size.

I have used the flourescents for some time now. I recently replaced all with the FEIT Daylight series and gave my regular compacts to my neighbor. They have a few lumens less than the regular compacts, but they have a better color spectrum over the soft white. I bought six cases of 12 when Lowes had them on sale for $0.99 each.

Watts/Equivalent/Lumens

13/60/800
18/75/1100
23/100/1500

There is an 800 lumen LED bulb available that uses les than 8 watts. That places it well above the 70 watts the article says at at least 100 lumens per watt:

http://www.ccrane.com/images/large/geobulb-led-light-bulb.jpg (http://www.ccrane.com/lights/led-light-bulbs/index.aspx)

There's also a 9 watt version said to be ewuivalent to 70 watts, but it only 308 lument in clear of 594 in frosted That doesn't make sense, but tghey claim it's due to the color:

http://i.treehugger.com/images/2007-2-15/led_bulbs.jpg (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/02/led_bulb_replac.php)

Click on pics for links...

Holy smokes, I looked up the LED bulbs, and one
equivelent to a 60 watt bulb, 119 bucks.

Guess I will pass on those.




Lots of money (http://www.ccrane.com/lights/led-light-bulbs/index.aspx)

[Wild Cobra]

Holy smokes, I looked up the LED bulbs, and one
equivelent to a 60 watt bulb, 119 bucks.

Guess I will pass on those.

Yes, but I was planning in only a few where I use lighting the most, and I would wait for the price to drop at least a little. I think we can expect the price to come down even more as more people want them, and more competition comes in. Maybe to about $10 each. I like lowering my energy consumption so I use the compact fluorescent. However, they are less environmentally friendly than regular bulbs! Sure, they reduce your carbon footprint, but what about your mercury and phosphorous footprint? These are items that are actually rather costly when properly disposed of. You don't just put these in the trash, and there should be a law against doing just that.