Jason Kidd Trade was a disaster

[The Nba Is Rigged]

This trade is a disaster in m opinion, wtf?? Jason Kidd has been a huge disappointment in my book, while Devin Harris is beginning to blossom in new jersey(22 pts, 15 assts 2night). Let's just face the fact that J-kidd is mediocre and we got raped in this trade. We traded a young potential star, a strong defensive center, a defensive swingman, a youth who's career may go either way, two 1st round picks and 3 million for a guy who is currently averaging 8 pts and 9 assists. Does that sound wise to you? Its the kind of stupid shit that goes down in the Dallas Mavericks Organization. When I first heard the trade rumors I kept saying this was pretty stupid . The things that we really needed imo -

1- A backup Point Guard that was a playmaker. This way Devin Could spend some time at the 2 spot.

2- A change of the offense, most coaches can see the Mavericks offense was mostly Isolation plays and no movement. The offense should have been changed to a motion offense so that way it would be less stagnant. Also the fact that Devin is known for fancy passes and lobs in Nj proves my point. If his assist numbers have gone up on a weak team like the nets can you imagine what his assist numbers would have been for us if didn't run isolations all the time?!

3- A shooting Guard. Eddie Jones is not the answer, Stack is too old to be the answer, Jet is too small be the answer. What they should have done also was to try and get a Sg that can take pressure off Dirk. People say Dirk is a choker but it is easy to "choke" when the defenses are designed to stop you and only you in crunch time. Jet, Stack and Dirk are the only people who can make big shots on this team. And don't even bring up Jason Kidd because his shooting is just plain horrible.

Right now I'm very pissed off, I'll probably go check out Fireavery.com for any updates. Dallas Mavericks Front office = :donkey

:bang

[ElNono]

Really? You just noticed? That team imploded even before Dirk got injured.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Really? You just noticed? That team imploded even before Dirk got injured.

I didn't just notice but lately I've been getting more and more pissed off with this trade so I decided to start a thread about it.

[Nasir_Jones]

The only reason it happened probably was because Stern was getting annoyed by Cuban, so he rigged the trade as punishment.... duh

[himat]

I brought this up before. If I was a GM I would be hesitant to trade Harris for Kidd straight up.

[dbreiden83080]

I brought this up before. If I was a GM I would be hesitant to trade Harris for Kidd straight up.

I agree when they made that deal all i wanted to know was is Harris a part of the deal?? Once i found out he was, i was not worried one bit.

[TampaDude]

The Mavs are 0-8 against over .500 teams since the Kidd trade...

[mavsfan1000]

I agree. I was against the trade right from the start. Not only that the chemistry was deeply effected. Howard has not been the same since Harris left. Says something about Harris's ability to get others involved if Kidd is struggling with that. The record says it all. Also the record when Harris went down says a lot as well.

[Purple & Gold]

I think most people realized that this was a very risky trade for Dallas and way overpaying.

[Purple & Gold]

Dallas should have traded for some type of offensive post presence, not for a position that they were already very good at.

[JamStone]

The draft picks probably hurt most. But, the Mavs would be no better if they didn't make the trade. They would be no more likely to win a title with Harris and Diop and Hassell. So, I still don't think it was a horrible trade. Long term, maybe 3-4 years down the line, losing those two first round picks might have an impact, but late first round picks are a crap shoot anyway. Harris doesn't make a difference this year or the next couple years for the Mavs. The risk was probably worth it for Kidd. The result desired hasn't exactly come to fruition so far.

[Purple & Gold]

Those draft picks hurt alot late first rounders or not. Harris and Diop as well as those firsts makes it way overpaying.

[mavsfan1000]

The draft picks probably hurt most. But, the Mavs would be no better if they didn't make the trade. They would be no more likely to win a title with Harris and Diop and Hassell. So, I still don't think it was a horrible trade. Long term, maybe 3-4 years down the line, losing those two first round picks might have an impact, but late first round picks are a crap shoot anyway. Harris doesn't make a difference this year or the next couple years for the Mavs. The risk was probably worth it for Kidd. The result desired hasn't exactly come to fruition so far.
I disagree. All the bad struggles started to happen when Harris went down. Kidd is just a big name that is becoming a has been very quickly. Harris was making a difference in January and was very impressive. Pretty much carrying this team since Dirk was hardly showing any effort. I'm not sure the mavs would win with Harris. I'm even more sure they won't win with Kidd. This franchise destroyed themselves with one trade. Worst trade ever.

[JamStone]

Does Harris give the Mavs a legit shot at an NBA title? I don't believe he does.

Now, it sure appears neither does Kidd. But, that was the risk. The Mavs made a bold move to "possibly" win a title. If they win a title, it's worth it. Now that it looks like it was a very bad trade.

My point is that Harris doesn't give the Mavs a shot at a title either. And, at the time, the Mavs were gambling that Kidd might.

[Purple & Gold]

Does Harris give the Mavs a legit shot at an NBA title? I don't believe he does.

Now, it sure appears neither does Kidd. But, that was the risk. The Mavs made a bold move to "possibly" win a title. If they win a title, it's worth it. Now that it looks like it was a very bad trade.

My point is that Harris doesn't give the Mavs a shot at a title either. And, at the time, the Mavs were gambling that Kidd might.

For a 2 year window, I think it was too much of a risk. Being that they never addressed their weakness which is a player that can score in the paint.

[mavs>spurs2]

Yea the Mavs are a joke we know u wanna tell us the sky is blue next?? The mavs have been lacking low post scoring for how long now????

[mavsfan1000]

Does Harris give the Mavs a legit shot at an NBA title? I don't believe he does.

Now, it sure appears neither does Kidd. But, that was the risk. The Mavs made a bold move to "possibly" win a title. If they win a title, it's worth it. Now that it looks like it was a very bad trade.

My point is that Harris doesn't give the Mavs a shot at a title either. And, at the time, the Mavs were gambling that Kidd might.
I disagree. Harris's extreme upside still gave the mavs a chance. Now there is no upside, Dallas has no chance.

[JamStone]

They had multiple weaknesses. Toughness and leadership were lacking as well. Jason Kidd addressed that.

Miami wanted low post scoring and got that with Shaq. They didn't have consistent outside shooting, a true point guard, or a perimeter defender that first year with Shaq, but the next year, they addressed those needs.

Not saying the Mavs will address all their needs. But, when you make a bold move for a superstar, you're still going to have other weaknesses to address.

[mavs>spurs2]

Mavs need to trade Jet for Maggete, and somehow come up with a low post scorer i'm not exactly sure how.

[JamStone]

I disagree. Harris's extreme upside still gave the mavs a chance. Now there is no upside, Dallas has no chance.

Well then you disagree.

There was risk no doubt. The Mavs took a calculated risk and it hasn't panned out so far. If the Mavs were winning all these games and Kidd was averaging a triple double, no problem. It was a bad trade in retrospect. A week and a half ago, some Mavs fans were still excited, saw Kidd shooting over 50% from three pointer wondering why anyone questioned his outside shooting, and happy over a few wins against lesser teams. Now it's all gloom and doom. I personally think it's somewhere in the middle.

It's easy to say the trade failed right now. Just like it was easy to say the Heat Shaq trade was a failure after the 2004-05 season. Just like it was easy to say the Phoenix Shaq trade was a failure before they reeled off seven straight wins with some against quality comp.

[mavsfan1000]

They had multiple weaknesses. Toughness and leadership were lacking as well. Jason Kidd addressed that.

Miami wanted low post scoring and got that with Shaq. They didn't have consistent outside shooting, a true point guard, or a perimeter defender that first year with Shaq, but the next year, they addressed those needs.

Not saying the Mavs will address all their needs. But, when you make a bold move for a superstar, you're still going to have other weaknesses to address.
This is the same team that won 67 games last year. I'm sure whatever weaknesses they had, they could fix it. Especially with Harris merging as a star. Kidd is not a star anymore. I don't care about his rebounding and assist numbers. He lacks what Dallas needs most. Slashing, shooting and defense. The best teams aren't going to let Dallas get a bunch of fast break points. There lies the problems with Dallas against the best teams now.

[san antonio spurs]

They had multiple weaknesses. Toughness and leadership were lacking as well. Jason Kidd addressed that.

Miami wanted low post scoring and got that with Shaq. They didn't have consistent outside shooting, a true point guard, or a perimeter defender that first year with Shaq, but the next year, they addressed those needs.

Not saying the Mavs will address all their needs. But, when you make a bold move for a superstar, you're still going to have other weaknesses to address.
Exactly. Very well said.
This trade needs another year to be considered a failure. I'm a football player, and changing a QB during the season is the worst thing. Kidd is exaclty that. They'll give him players able to run, give him more freedom to run the offense and the mavs will be back to haunt the league.

[Purple & Gold]

Yea the Mavs are a joke we know u wanna tell us the sky is blue next?? The mavs have been lacking low post scoring for how long now????

Well it seems that some Mavs fans thought it wasn't needed or that Kidd would fix that.

[himat]

This is the same team that won 67 games last year. I'm sure whatever weaknesses they had, they could fix it. Especially with Harris merging as a star. Kidd is not a star anymore. I don't care about his rebounding and assist numbers. He lacks what Dallas needs most. Slashing, shooting and defense. The best teams aren't going to let Dallas get a bunch of fast break points. There lies the problems with Dallas against the best teams now.

The Suns have been reeling off 60+ wins for a while now too, but they look more primed for a playoff run this year. I still give this team a chance, but adjustments have to be made on offense to suit Kidd.

[JamStone]

This is the same team that won 67 games last year. I'm sure whatever weaknesses they had, they could fix it. Especially with Harris merging as a star. Kidd is not a star anymore. I don't care about his rebounding and assist numbers. He lacks what Dallas needs most. Slashing, shooting and defense. The best teams aren't going to let Dallas get a bunch of fast break points. There lies the problems with Dallas against the best teams now.

It's also the same team that melted down in the first round of the playoffs despite winning 67 regular season games last year. The biggest weaknesses they had involved toughness and leadership, not slashing, shooting, and defense. They had slashing with Josh, Devin, and Terry. They had plenty of shooting from every position except center. They were an improved defensive team last year. Those weren't the things Dallas needed most. You're a Mavs fan and you're trying to sell that bullshit? No way. Dallas needed a leader and needed someone who would lead amidst adversity. That's what the Mavs hoped they would get with Kidd.

[himat]

That's what the Mavs hoped they would get with Kidd.

That's why the injury may be good. It will force Kidd to be a leader.

[Purple & Gold]

Exactly. Very well said.
This trade needs another year to be considered a failure. I'm a football player, and changing a QB during the season is the worst thing. Kidd is exaclty that. They'll give him players able to run, give him more freedom to run the offense and the mavs will be back to haunt the league.

Well with a 2 year window you really don't have the luxury of giving it another year. So in essence the Mavs traded away a very nice young PG, a serviceable big man, and 2 first round draft picks for a 1 year championship window. Way too risky and not smart at all IMO.

[mavs>spurs2]

Well it seems that some Mavs fans thought it wasn't needed or that Kidd would fix that.

That's because 90% of Mav fans are fucking dumb. The only team in recent history to win a championship without a legitimate low post scorer is the Bulls, and that's only because MJ was the greatest player of all time. After that, my memory gets kind of cloudy..

[mavsfan1000]

It's also the same team that melted down in the first round of the playoffs despite winning 67 regular season games last year. The biggest weaknesses they had involved toughness and leadership, not slashing, shooting, and defense. They had slashing with Josh, Devin, and Terry. They had plenty of shooting from every position except center. They were an improved defensive team last year. Those weren't the things Dallas needed most. You're a Mavs fan and you're trying to sell that bullshit? No way. Dallas needed a leader and needed someone who would lead amidst adversity. That's what the Mavs hoped they would get with Kidd.
Dampier got hurt and Dallas matched up very badly against a small but extremely athletic Warriors team. I could care less about leadership. Overrated. What is needed to find a way to combat that small ball lineup. I still don't think Dallas has that. Dirk's biggest flaw is allowing smaller player to abuse him. Stephen Jackson did that on both sides of the court. Dampier's biggest weakness is his hands and guarding the perimeter and big time athletes. Harris's biggest weakness is guarding big point guards. See what I mean about how bad Dallas matched up with Golden State?

[himat]

That's because 90% of Mav fans are fucking dumb. The only team in recent history to win a championship without a legitimate low post scorer is the Bulls, and that's only because MJ was the greatest player of all time. After that, my memory gets kind of cloudy..

MJ would post guards all day.

[Purple & Gold]

It's also the same team that melted down in the first round of the playoffs despite winning 67 regular season games last year. The biggest weaknesses they had involved toughness and leadership, not slashing, shooting, and defense. They had slashing with Josh, Devin, and Terry. They had plenty of shooting from every position except center. They were an improved defensive team last year. Those weren't the things Dallas needed most. You're a Mavs fan and you're trying to sell that bullshit? No way. Dallas needed a leader and needed someone who would lead amidst adversity. That's what the Mavs hoped they would get with Kidd.

They needed someone to score in the paint when the playoffs stifle running/jumpshooting teams. Much more important than trading for a "leader".

[himat]

I could care less about leadership. Overrated.

I am sorry but that is the stupidest thing I have heard in a long time.

[Purple & Gold]

That's because 90% of Mav fans are fucking dumb. The only team in recent history to win a championship without a legitimate low post scorer is the Bulls, and that's only because MJ was the greatest player of all time. After that, my memory gets kind of cloudy..

He's the only one and he also won in the watered down 90's. The League is much much more difficult now. (Plus Rodman and Grant were no slouches either)

[mavsfan1000]

They needed someone to score in the paint when the playoffs stifle running/jumpshooting teams. Much more important than trading for a "leader".
Harris and Howard can both do that. Like I said, we had a championship team with Harris and Diop but not so with Kidd as he can't break down defenses like Harris does. Point guard is the biggest position on the court so any changes can drastically change a team.

[mavsfan1000]

I am sorry but that is the stupidest thing I have heard in a long time.
Who cares about leadership if you don't have the horses to followup that leadership. It's about how good your players are. Leadership can be done by itself with good results. That alone will bring the team together.

[mavs>spurs2]

He's the only one and he also won in the watered down 90's. The League is much much more difficult now. (Plus Rodman and Grant were no slouches either)

Rodman and Grant were decent players, but because of their defense and rebounding, not low post scoring ability. Bottom line is the Mavs are kidding themselves and their entire fan base by trying to win a championship without low post scoring. It's like driving a car without gas, brushing your teeth without toothpaste..etc, we have the other pieces but we're still missing something important.

[himat]

Harris and Howard can both do that. Like I said, we had a championship team with Harris and Diop but not so with Kidd as he can't break down defenses like Harris does. Point guard is the biggest position on the court so any changes can drastically change a team.

But Harris can't do many of the things Kidd does. PG can drastically change a team, so it goes both ways. A team may need to drastically change for there PG. I think if changes (playbook etc.) are made this team can start winning again.

[Purple & Gold]

Harris and Howard can both do that. Like I said, we had a championship team with Harris and Diop but not so with Kidd as he can't break down defenses like Harris does. Point guard is the biggest position on the court so any changes can drastically change a team.

You need post scoring from the 4 or the 5. And Diop, while I like him, is not a true legit low post scoring threat. (at least not yet)

[himat]

It's about how good your players are. Leadership can be done by itself with good results.

There is the mistake. If you want to win a championship in the NBA a team will have to go through 100 something games to get there. You don't think there will be rough times during that stretch? That's where leadership comes in. Leadership can be done with good results, but good results won't always come. In every team's championship run there is a moment where that team could have taken a step back instead of a step forward, usually there is more than 1.

[mavsfan1000]

Rodman and Grant were decent players, but because of their defense and rebounding, not low post scoring ability. Bottom line is the Mavs are kidding themselves and their entire fan base by trying to win a championship without low post scoring. It's like driving a car without gas, brushing your teeth without toothpaste..etc, we have the other pieces but we're still missing something important.
We don't need a low post player. We need better athletes at the 1 and 2 positions. We also need Howard to attack the rim more. Dampier gives us a few dunks in the post but to run the offense around the post doesn't seem to be a perfect fit for a team based around ball movement and isos.

[Purple & Gold]

Rodman and Grant were decent players, but because of their defense and rebounding, not low post scoring ability. Bottom line is the Mavs are kidding themselves and their entire fan base by trying to win a championship without low post scoring. It's like driving a car without gas, brushing your teeth without toothpaste..etc, we have the other pieces but we're still missing something important.

I didn't mean to imply they were low post scoring threats. (Well maybe Grant was to a smaller degree) But the offensive rebounds they could get (especially Rodman) more than made up for it.

And we agree about low post scoring. The way to a Championship still goes through the paint.

[arcticjoe]

damn it seems like the pistons fans are the only ones making a solid case for kidd. mavs fans believe the sky is falling right now..

personally i think harris was never going to reach his potential with dallas its nice to see him doing well in jersey since he has complete freedom over there.. something the mavs couldn't afford to give him. and i think that pretty much is the reason the trade happened for kidd they needed to give a vet and a real leader control over the team...

but its not exactly going to smooth this season and with his age you cant help but feel nervous and hopefully next season the team will be in more synch

[Purple & Gold]

We don't need a low post player. We need better athletes at the 1 and 2 positions. We also need Howard to attack the rim more. Dampier gives us a few dunks in the post but to run the offense around the post doesn't seem to be a perfect fit for a team based around ball movement and isos.

Sorry you're wrong. All teams need a low post player if they wanna win a Ring. Only Jordan did it without one. Jumpshots will not always fall and isos can be stifled with good solid defense. Gotta score in the paint if you wanna win it all.

[mavs>spurs2]

We don't need a low post player. We need better athletes at the 1 and 2 positions. We also need Howard to attack the rim more. Dampier gives us a few dunks in the post but to run the offense around the post doesn't seem to be a perfect fit for a team based around ball movement and isos.

Oh seriously shut the fuck up you don't know basketball if you think any team doesn't need a low post player. Low post scoring takes pressure off everyone and makes it easy for these so called "athletes at the 1 and 2" to penetrate and do what they do. Name a championship team without a low post scorer. And for every team u name I can counter with 20 teams that DID have a legitimate low post threat.

[mavsfan1000]

There is the mistake. If you want to win a championship in the NBA a team will have to go through 100 something games to get there. You don't think there will be rough times during that stretch? That's where leadership comes in. Leadership can be done with good results, but good results won't always come. In every team's championship run there is a moment where that team could have taken a step back instead of a step forward, usually there is more than 1.
Leadership and chemistry go hand to hand. If Dallas has the talent and chemistry, leadership is there than. I don't consider Detroit having a true leader when they won that one championship but they did it as a group. The coach (Avery) is a joke though so while I don't think a lot about leadership, the coach is very important with his decision making.

[Purple & Gold]

Oh seriously shut the fuck up you don't know basketball if you think any team doesn't need a low post player. Low post scoring takes pressure off everyone and makes it easy for these so called "athletes at the 1 and 2" to penetrate and do what they do. Name a championship team without a low post scorer. And for every team u name I can counter with 20 teams that DID have a legitimate low post threat.

Seriously it's ridiculous that some people think you can win it all with jumpshots and isos. Even the suns realized it wasn't gonna work.

[mavsfan1000]

Oh seriously shut the fuck up you don't know basketball if you think any team doesn't need a low post player. Low post scoring takes pressure off everyone and makes it easy for these so called "athletes at the 1 and 2" to penetrate and do what they do. Name a championship team without a low post scorer. And for every team u name I can counter with 20 teams that DID have a legitimate low post threat.
Well I'll take Shaq (prime), Duncan, and Garnett but unfortunately they aren't available. I don't think too highly of anyone else being more than what Dampier is. Dampier does what we need. We shouldn't be running the offense around him as it will hurt us but getting loose balls, rebounds, defense, and put backs are what this team needs. It is a waste of breath to go after low post players as they won't be available. A shooting guard is much likely to be had.

[mavs>spurs2]

Well I'll take Shaq (prime), Duncan, and Garnett but unfortunately they aren't available. I don't think too highly of anyone else being more than what Dampier is. Dampier does what we need. We shouldn't be running the offense around him as it will hurt us but getting loose balls, rebounds, defense, and put backs are what this team needs. It is a waste of breath to go after low post players as they won't be available. A shooting guard is much likely to be had.

I'll agree that this team is talented enough to win it all without a Duncan or Garnett, but we do need SOME sort of low post scoring, even a decent/good player would do. We don't need another superstar, just someone to keep the defense honest IMO.

[mavs>spurs2]

Well I'll take Shaq (prime), Duncan, and Garnett but unfortunately they aren't available. I don't think too highly of anyone else being more than what Dampier is. Dampier does what we need. We shouldn't be running the offense around him as it will hurt us but getting loose balls, rebounds, defense, and put backs are what this team needs. It is a waste of breath to go after low post players as they won't be available. A shooting guard is much likely to be had.

I agree, they are VERY hard to come by..but so are championships. Tim Duncans don't just fall into teams hands very often but an Elton Brand type player would do just fine.

[Brutalis]

Why do you think we all cheered when the trade went through? Mav fans, take us more seriously.

Mainly, just me.

[mavs>spurs2]

Also, this team needs to trade Terry/whatever else is needed to make it work for Magette because Kidd needs athletic guys to run with and we need to get bigger at the 2.

[Purple & Gold]

Randolph and Curry were available for cheap :spin

[mavs>spurs2]

Randolph and Curry were available for cheap :spin
Pass. We would only be fixing one problem while opening up another glaring weakness (post defense). Not to mention Curry is lazy and has a poor work ethic while Randolph has a terrible attitude and could be a cancer.

[mavs>spurs2]

I wonder if the Clippers could possibly be dumber than the Grizzlies were with Gasol and let us rape them for both Magette and Brand, without gutting our entire team of course. If we could somehow pull that off then we would be set until Kidd is just too old to go anymore. It would never happen but a guy can dream, can't he?

[Trainwreck2100]

I wonder if the Clippers could possibly be dumber than the Grizzlies were with Gasol and let us rape them for both Magette and Brand, without gutting our entire team of course. If we could somehow pull that off then we would be set until Kidd is just too old to go anymore. It would never happen but a guy can dream, can't he?

We could pull a Mavs, and sign and trade Terry Porter

[Purple & Gold]

Pass. We would only be fixing one problem while opening up another glaring weakness (post defense). Not to mention Curry is lazy and has a poor work ethic while Randolph has a terrible attitude and could be a cancer.

I think either one would be a nice addition to the Mavs. Curry is still young and one thing he can do is score in the paint. Randolph gets you 20 and 10. And most importantly it wouldn't have cost that much. But I'll guess we'll never know. (Unless the Mavs have a crazy offseason)

[mavs>spurs2]

I think either one would be a nice addition to the Mavs. Curry is still young and one thing he can do is score in the paint. Randolph gets you 20 and 10. And most importantly it wouldn't have cost that much. But I'll guess we'll never know. (Unless the Mavs have a crazy offseason)

If anything I'd take Curry because Dirk/Randolph are both PFs and Randolph's ego is too big to come off the bench. Curry is an interesting idea to think about but his defense is atrocious at times.

[Purple & Gold]

If anything I'd take Curry because Dirk/Randolph are both PFs and Randolph's ego is too big to come off the bench. Curry is an interesting idea to think about but his defense is atrocious at times.

His defense sucks. That's why he can be had for cheap. Well other than his contract.

[ludda]

The mavs weren't winning with Harris (maybe he gave them a better chance since Kidd is not doing well in Avery's offense), but this is the same team that imploded against the Heat and GS...changes should have been made in the offseason, but I guess the mavs FO went with the whole "67 wins" but saw the West get incredibly tougher and made a panic move midseason. Integrating a PG is not a easy thing.

Good thing for Mav fans is at least maybe your FO will be pulling the trigger on uprooting the roster this offseason. The mavs weren't going anywhere before the trade and it looks like they aren't after the trade either. Maybe some other team will be dumb enough to take Terry, Stackhouse, etc off your hands for something decent in return.

[Findog]

The draft picks probably hurt most. But, the Mavs would be no better if they didn't make the trade. They would be no more likely to win a title with Harris and Diop and Hassell. So, I still don't think it was a horrible trade. Long term, maybe 3-4 years down the line, losing those two first round picks might have an impact, but late first round picks are a crap shoot anyway. Harris doesn't make a difference this year or the next couple years for the Mavs. The risk was probably worth it for Kidd. The result desired hasn't exactly come to fruition so far.

We keep our pick this year if we don't make the playoffs.

[MajorMike]

We keep our pick this year if we don't make the playoffs.

It is protected?

[monosylab1k]

Any Mavs fan who is already calling this trade a failure is a fucking moron. This team wasn't winning anything with Devin Harris. Diop was playing 10 minutes a game and doing jack shit. And before talking about how great Harris is doing in NJ, go look at his fucking numbers. The guy isn't playing any better in New Jersey despite playing significantly more minutes and being given absolute freedom to do whatever the hell he wants.

This team needed a shakeup and the front office provided one. So far it hasn't worked out well but you're going to call it a disaster after ONE MONTH?????

If anything, the trade's only problem is that it came too late. The shakeup should have happened before the season started.

And the trade wasn't made just for this season only. There's a whole nother year. What a bunch of shortsighted little bitches. You guys are fucking ridiculous.

The ONLY way this trade can be called a failure is if Devin Harris leads New Jersey to a title and Dallas still doesn't have anything. Until then, shut your dumb asses up with this bitch talk. This season isn't a failure because of Jason Kidd, it's a failure because we still have the same braindead, heartless group of assholes surrounding Dirk & Kidd that failed miserably in Miami and failed miserably in GS.

[MajorMike]

Wow, you eat cheerios in your mom's basement with that mouth? Do you have a script that every 10th word has to be a swear?

Its ok, I know what that's like; my wife is a teacher and some of her 8th graders are the same way.

[monosylab1k]

Wow, you eat cheerios in your mom's basement with that mouth? Do you have a script that every 10th word has to be a swear?

Its ok, I know what that's like; my wife is a teacher and some of her 8th graders are the same way.
America, eatin' my lunch from a single bowl in my parents basement, where I'm livin'. Happy Birthday, I'm forty-three.

Don't want to waste those precious calories...chewin'. Jesus come move my jaw for me, help me get my sloppy food down my throat

[stretch]

Any Mavs fan who is already calling this trade a failure is a fucking moron. This team wasn't winning anything with Devin Harris. Diop was playing 10 minutes a game and doing jack shit. And before talking about how great Harris is doing in NJ, go look at his fucking numbers. The guy isn't playing any better in New Jersey despite playing significantly more minutes and being given absolute freedom to do whatever the hell he wants.

This team needed a shakeup and the front office provided one. So far it hasn't worked out well but you're going to call it a disaster after ONE MONTH?????

If anything, the trade's only problem is that it came too late. The shakeup should have happened before the season started.

And the trade wasn't made just for this season only. There's a whole nother year. What a bunch of shortsighted little bitches. You guys are fucking ridiculous.

The ONLY way this trade can be called a failure is if Devin Harris leads New Jersey to a title and Dallas still doesn't have anything. Until then, shut your dumb asses up with this bitch talk. This season isn't a failure because of Jason Kidd, it's a failure because we still have the same braindead, heartless group of assholes surrounding Dirk & Kidd that failed miserably in Miami and failed miserably in GS.

Couldn't have said it better myself. If they had done this trade at the start of the season, things would probably be looking a lot different. It takes time for a PG to learn a new system and get accustomed to new players. I'd say that Kidd has done a damn good job so far though. If Avery will simply back off a bit and let Kidd just go out there and play some basketball, this team is still without question a title contender.

[monosylab1k]

the ONLY problems with this trade are 1) the horrible horrible timing of the trade, and 2) Avery still being the coach.

if the front office is competent enough to get a couple pieces that fit with Kidd, and Avery either backs the hell off or gets fired, I think this team is a top 3 team in the league next season.

[stretch]

the ONLY problems with this trade are 1) the horrible horrible timing of the trade, and 2) Avery still being the coach.

if the front office is competent enough to get a couple pieces that fit with Kidd, and Avery either backs the hell off or gets fired, I think this team is a top 3 team in the league next season.
I think we should pretty much keep this same team together for the most part. The only thing we need to add is an athletic slashing swingman. It would have been nice if we could have gotten Desmond Mason in the past offseason, but oh well... I really wish we could have Marquis Daniels back, if Avery would actually play him, but I'm really not sure who is going to be available...

[monosylab1k]

I think we should pretty much keep this same team together for the most part.
meh, except for Dirk & Kidd I'd move anybody I could. This whole team is diseased. While Avery is the biggest problem, you have to fault the players for deciding to tune him out as well. New guys will be willing to listen to Avery.

I'd love to see Terry, Howard, & Stack all outta here if the right deal comes along and we can get back a piece that fits in with Dirk & Kidd.

[DaDakota]

Cuban blew up the team's chemistry, he panicked....just like I said back before the trade....big mistake....

DD

[monosylab1k]

Cuban blew up the team's chemistry, he panicked....just like I said back before the trade....big mistake....

DD
Rocket Fan has shown his ignorance many times before, just disregard this and move along people...

[stretch]

yea, but who are we going to get in return?

i also hear that Okafor is going to be a FA this coming summer... if the Mavs could land him... holy cow.

[DaDakota]

Rocket Fan has shown his ignorance many times before, just disregard this and move along people...


Yes, if by ignorance, you mean righteousness.

I don't expect Mavs fans to take a realistic look....some people are just happy to be fans.

Look at it from the outside, and you can see the leaks in the dam.......the Mavs blew it....should have kept the same team that won 67 games together for another run....just tweaked instead of overhauled.

Meh, who cares, glad Cuban meddles so much it is good for my team.

And I get to watch Jason Kidd and his HORRIBLE contract saddle the Mavs with his lack of shooting for another year....

I mean the guy could not even lead a team above .500 in the Leastern conference.....LOL....his best days are 3+ years behind him.

DD

[monosylab1k]

yea, but who are we going to get in return?

i also hear that Okafor is going to be a FA this coming summer... if the Mavs could land him... holy cow.
i believe he's a restricted FA, but that would be nice.

Unless they shock the world and go on a tear to finish this season, Terry & Howard have to go. I was mistaken in thinking that Dirk was psychologically damaged after the Miami & GS series'.......he's just fine, the guys who are damaged beyond repair are those two. Terry will show up from time to time, but he's not going to be dependable enough come playoff time. Same with Howard.

[stretch]

i believe he's a restricted FA, but that would be nice.

Unless they shock the world and go on a tear to finish this season, Terry & Howard have to go. I was mistaken in thinking that Dirk was psychologically damaged after the Miami & GS series'.......he's just fine, the guys who are damaged beyond repair are those two. Terry will show up from time to time, but he's not going to be dependable enough come playoff time. Same with Howard.
Yea, I just don't see who is out there that we can get for them though...

[monosylab1k]

Yea, I just don't see who is out there that we can get for them though...
We all want Maggette. I'm sure something can be worked out in a S&T if he opts out and the Clippers don't want to lose him for nothing. Terry & Howard are both solid players in the league, they just don't have a place on this team anymore.

[stretch]

Yea, Maggette of course would be nice. I've been wanting him for several years now, as you know. Any good shooters out there that we could get though? And I'm not talking about someone like Jason Kapono, that can shoot, but doesnt do anything else. Someone who is capable of pitching in a couple ways, and has a reliable 3pt shot.

[m33p0]

its really weird to find out that dallas is amongst the worst in the league in terms of assists when you consider the personnel they have before the trade. a change in offensive philosophy is in order.

[Shank]

The timeline to judge this trade isn't a month into it. And because it happened late in the season, it's also not fair to expect a championship in the same season. Not when it's a point guard involved. The right time to assess this trade is at the trade deadline next season. By then, you can call it a failure if the Mavs are trying to move Kidd's contract. Otherwise, you have to reserve all judgment of the trade until this team has milked Kidd for everything he's capable of. As for me, I'm going to watch how they work with Kidd at least through next season before saying whether it was a success or a bust.

I do like the unrealistic, rabid fans of OTHER teams that quickly dismiss it as a bust with fewer than 20 games in. That's like going to a movie and leaving because the opening credits didn't suit you.

[DaDakota]

Shank?

WTF are you talking about? The trade is for THIS year, because if the trade was made for next year that would be even more stupid.

What position were the Mavs in when they made the trade? What position are they in now?

Wow, talk about moving the goal posts....this was a win now trade, a keep up with the Joneses......nothing more no matter how much you want to spin it.

DD

[Shank]

And I get to watch Jason Kidd and his HORRIBLE contract saddle the Mavs with his lack of shooting for another year....


Horrible expiring contract. They can move him, if need be. Besides, the money doesn't belong to any of us personally, so why fret over it? It's not my money.

[monosylab1k]

WTF are you talking about? The trade is for THIS year

Can Rocket Fan please shut the fuck up about things he has no clue about?

[Shank]

Shank?

WTF are you talking about? The trade is for THIS year, because if the trade was made for next year that would be even more stupid.

What position were the Mavs in when they made the trade? What position are they in now?

Wow, talk about moving the goal posts....this was a win now trade, a keep up with the Joneses......nothing more no matter how much you want to spin it.

DD

The trade was for a 2-year window. People and coaches within the organization will tell you that the goal was to take it as far as they could get this season, but the real focus would be for next year when everyone had more time to play with Kidd. The offseason and next year's camp gives them more time to gel. That's why we're still hearing quotes about "learning to play together". If it were Shaq and you were just going to plug a guy in the paint and let him go to work, then you could say it was for this year. But for a PG, it's not realistic to assume everything is going to automatically click and they'd go all the way in a matter of weeks.

Why would you say it's stupid to think this trade doesn't help them for next season?

[monosylab1k]

That's why we're still hearing quotes about "learning to play together".
True, but is this a case of these guys still needing time together, or Kidd needing to adjust to his coach screaming orders at him all game long?

[Shank]

True, but is this a case of these guys still needing time together, or Kidd needing to adjust to his coach screaming orders at him all game long?

I think I still believe in Avery, especially since it seems he's backed down on his over-coaching here in the past week (believe it or not), but I'd almost guarantee Kidd would record his next triple-double in a game where Avery was out with the flu.

[DaDakota]

The trade was for a 2-year window. People and coaches within the organization will tell you that the goal was to take it as far as they could get this season, but the real focus would be for next year when everyone had more time to play with Kidd. The offseason and next year's camp gives them more time to gel. That's why we're still hearing quotes about "learning to play together". If it were Shaq and you were just going to plug a guy in the paint and let him go to work, then you could say it was for this year. But for a PG, it's not realistic to assume everything is going to automatically click and they'd go all the way in a matter of weeks.

Why would you say it's stupid to think this trade doesn't help them for next season?

Then make the trade in the offseason......you can spin it however you like this was done for THIS year to keep up with the Lakers and Suns and their big trades.

Cuban screwed it up....pure and simple......

No amount of spin changes that.

DD

[monosylab1k]

Then make the trade in the offseason......you can spin it however you like this was done for THIS year to keep up with the Lakers and Suns and their big trades.
They were already in negotiations to trade for Kidd before the Lakers traded for Gasol & Suns got Shaq you stupid fuck.

[Shank]

Then make the trade in the offseason......you can spin it however you like this was done for THIS year to keep up with the Lakers and Suns and their big trades.

Cuban screwed it up....pure and simple......

No amount of spin changes that.

DD

Again. No it wasn't.

Why would the Mavs trade for a PG when the Lakers and Suns both traded for bigger guys in Gasol and Shaq? Wouldn't you think they'd trade for more of an inside presence if you think they were truly trying to "keep up" with them? Why would they want to keep up with 2 teams there were already beating regularly?

Kidd brought 2 things the team felt they were lacking and were evident in the last 2 bounces out of the playoffs - leadership on the floor and mental toughness. In the time he's had in Dallas already, it's not fair to assess these qualities after only a handful of games. Again, his skills and traits will be fully used to help this team when they spend more time together, ie - in the offseason and leading into next year. You can see now that guys are just barely starting to figure out how to play with him. Dampier has gotten better. Howard and Stackhouse are starting to get it. We've already seen the fire under Dirk since Kidd came to the team. It's not hard to imagine how much easier things will be after playing and training together longer. How many teams could plug in a brand new PG that's used to playing a different way on a team that's been together for years and expect him to automatically lead them to glory?

There's no spin here. I'm telling you how it is from an actual fan of the team and from someone that knows things going on inside of the organization. The thinking was "if we win it this year, then great. otherwise, the truly attainable and realistic goal would be the following season when they've had more time together".

[DaDakota]

LOL - well as a fan of the team you seem to be burying your head in the sand.

It is fairly obvious this was a trade for THIS year, and next......but if it was clearly for NEXT year then why not make it in the offseason?

Dallas panicked, Cuban choked when he let Nash go, and should have ridden a team that won 67 games into the ground before blowing it up.

Jason Kidd......I mean come on.....unless he has great shooters at all 4 others spots on the floor, he is easily managed by the other team....don't guard him...let him shoot.

This trade was made for this year, not next, and not the future, for this year.....and next year unless they get a talent infusion they will be even worse...regardless of how much more time they have together.

You know why? Because TIME is what is NOT on Jason Kidd's side.

And the rest of the West is getting better while Dallas is sinking faster than the Titanic.

And Mono, when you grow up and learn more than 4 letter words or how to actually make a point, you will earn a reply, but until that time, you will just continue to look like a little kid........

DD

[monosylab1k]

LOL - well as a fan of the team you seem to be burying your head in the sand.

It is fairly obvious this was a trade for THIS year, and next......but if it was clearly for NEXT year then why not make it in the offseason?

Dallas panicked, Cuban choked when he let Nash go, and should have ridden a team that won 67 games into the ground before blowing it up.

Jason Kidd......I mean come on.....unless he has great shooters at all 4 others spots on the floor, he is easily managed by the other team....don't guard him...let him shoot.

This trade was made for this year, not next, and not the future, for this year.....and next year unless they get a talent infusion they will be even worse...regardless of how much more time they have together.

You know why? Because TIME is what is NOT on Jason Kidd's side.

DD
Youg guys really should be playing Carl Landry 20 minutes a game. Also, time to get rid of Rafer Alston, he's fools gold. T-Mac should be traded for Vince Carter. And go ahead and get rid of Yao now, he'll never lead your team to a title.

Wow, so that's what it's like to go commenting about another team despite having no clue what the hell you're talking about.

Now I truly understand you.

[DaDakota]

Youg guys really should be playing Carl Landry 20 minutes a game. Also, time to get rid of Rafer Alston, he's fools gold. T-Mac should be traded for Vince Carter. And go ahead and get rid of Yao now, he'll never lead your team to a title.

Wow, so that's what it's like to go commenting about another team despite having no clue what the hell you're talking about.

Now I truly understand you.


LOL - Sure there is no way anyone could know about multiple teams in the NBA, right?

Well not people with your limited mental capacity.

DD

PS. Rafer is fool's gold.....and Tmac has only one hole in his game, unfortunatly it is between his ears.

Real fans are realistic....

[stretch]

LOL - well as a fan of the team you seem to be burying your head in the sand.

It is fairly obvious this was a trade for THIS year, and next......but if it was clearly for NEXT year then why not make it in the offseason?

Dallas panicked, Cuban choked when he let Nash go, and should have ridden a team that won 67 games into the ground before blowing it up.

Jason Kidd......I mean come on.....unless he has great shooters at all 4 others spots on the floor, he is easily managed by the other team....don't guard him...let him shoot.

This trade was made for this year, not next, and not the future, for this year.....and next year unless they get a talent infusion they will be even worse...regardless of how much more time they have together.

You know why? Because TIME is what is NOT on Jason Kidd's side.

And the rest of the West is getting better while Dallas is sinking faster than the Titanic.

And Mono, when you grow up and learn more than 4 letter words or how to actually make a point, you will earn a reply, but until that time, you will just continue to look like a little kid........

DD

Hi, DD

[monosylab1k]

LOL - Sure there is no way anyone could know about multiple teams in the NBA, right?
You had no clue Dallas was already in talks to trade for Kidd before the Gasol trade went down. You called it a panic move when they were the first ones to look for a trade. You really know a lot.

Fucking dumbshit.

[DaDakota]

Hi, DD


Hola Stretch !

DD

[monosylab1k]

Real fans are realistic....
Yeah you missed the part where I was the only Mavs fan all year ripping the team here, saying they needed a shakeup before the season even started. I predicted the collapse before the season began. I've said that the Kidd trade isn't working well but I'm also giving it more than one month before calling it a disaster. I've been the most realistic Mavs fan on ST.

Fuckhead.

[DaDakota]

Yeah you missed the part where I was the only Mavs fan all year ripping the team saying they needed a shakeup before the season even started. I've been the most realistic Mavs fan on ST.

Fuckhead.

Typical, stoop to name calling instead of actually intelligently discussing the topic.

Lame....

DD

[monosylab1k]

Typical, stoop to name calling instead of actually intelligently discussing the topic.
I guess I'm waiting for you to make an intelligent comment first. All I've heard is ignorant bullshit from you so far.

You keep insisting that the Mavs made this trade for this year only, when somebody who knows people INSIDE THE MAVS ORGANIZATION told you flat-out that the organization NEVER made this trade for this year only.

That tells me you're not interested in intelligent discussion, you're interested in being a Rocket Fan troll.

[DazedAndConfused]

Derek Fisher should be SUSPENDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DaDakota]

Derek Fisher should be SUSPENDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Exactly...

:D

That is a general comment about all the flopping in the NBA, I want them to start using technical fouls to clean it up.

It is...unmanly.

DD

[mavsfan1000]

Any Mavs fan who is already calling this trade a failure is a fucking moron. This team wasn't winning anything with Devin Harris. Diop was playing 10 minutes a game and doing jack shit. And before talking about how great Harris is doing in NJ, go look at his fucking numbers. The guy isn't playing any better in New Jersey despite playing significantly more minutes and being given absolute freedom to do whatever the hell he wants.

This team needed a shakeup and the front office provided one. So far it hasn't worked out well but you're going to call it a disaster after ONE MONTH?????

If anything, the trade's only problem is that it came too late. The shakeup should have happened before the season started.

And the trade wasn't made just for this season only. There's a whole nother year. What a bunch of shortsighted little bitches. You guys are fucking ridiculous.

The ONLY way this trade can be called a failure is if Devin Harris leads New Jersey to a title and Dallas still doesn't have anything. Until then, shut your dumb asses up with this bitch talk. This season isn't a failure because of Jason Kidd, it's a failure because we still have the same braindead, heartless group of assholes surrounding Dirk & Kidd that failed miserably in Miami and failed miserably in GS.
Already? 18 games should be enough time to gel. Unfortunately Kidd doesn't have the speed anymore. A thing he was known for in his early days in New Jersey and Phoenix. Diop was playing 15 minutes and being very productive in rebounds and block in the little time he had. He was a defensive beast. Don't underestimate that.

[DaDakota]

Already? 18 games should be enough time to gel. Unfortunately Kidd doesn't have the speed anymore. A thing he was known for in his early days in New Jersey and Phoenix. Diop was playing 15 minutes and being very productive in rebounds and block in the little time he had. He was a defensive beast. Don't underestimate that.

Shhhhhh....you are using logic, don't expect that to sway the "koolaid" fans.

And don't toss out that Josh Howard was initiating a good amount of the offense prior to Kidd coming over, and that is primarily the reason he has struggled.

Playing with the ball in your hands versus playing off the ball is a big adjustment to anyone's game.

But, you can't explain that to people who don't know the game......right Mono?

DD

[DazedAndConfused]

Yao Ming will never stay healthy for an entire season. T-Mac is on the decline and even more injury prone than Yao.

Derek Fisher should be SUSPENDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Findog]

The early returns on the trade aren't good, but it's a mixed bag. According to efficiency ratings, the Mavs offense is WORSE while the defense is BETTER. That's pretty much the opposite of what was predicted by everybody. Dirk is Dirk again with Kidd. And as he goes, so do the Mavericks. It was worth it to get Kidd if it meant Dirk played at his MVP level of the past two years. Dampier is an actual NBA center with Kidd here. You can blame a lot of their recent struggles on Avery doing a bad job on the sidelines as much as you can Kidd. At the same time, they are 0-8 against good teams. Most of those games went to the wire and they were competitive in them, but at some point you have to get some W's, not just moral victories.

It would've been better to make this trade last summer or three months from now. But I think it's foolish to say that this trade can't pay dividends next year.

[monosylab1k]

18 games should be enough time to gel.
are you kidding? for a point guard who relies on knowing & anticipating everything his teammates are going to do, to run a completely different offense, and to accept completely different coaching? one month is enough?

i was expecting better results than what we've seen, but what you just said is about is obtuse as it gets.

So if you trade Tony Romo mid-season to the Denver Broncos, and in one month he should run that offense to perfection?

[DaDakota]

Yao Ming will never stay healthy for an entire season. T-Mac is on the decline and even more injury prone than Yao.

Derek Fisher should be SUSPENDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Jeff.

[Shank]

LOL - well as a fan of the team you seem to be burying your head in the sand.

It is fairly obvious this was a trade for THIS year, and next......but if it was clearly for NEXT year then why not make it in the offseason?

Dallas panicked, Cuban choked when he let Nash go, and should have ridden a team that won 67 games into the ground before blowing it up.

Jason Kidd......I mean come on.....unless he has great shooters at all 4 others spots on the floor, he is easily managed by the other team....don't guard him...let him shoot.

This trade was made for this year, not next, and not the future, for this year.....and next year unless they get a talent infusion they will be even worse...regardless of how much more time they have together.

You know why? Because TIME is what is NOT on Jason Kidd's side.

And the rest of the West is getting better while Dallas is sinking faster than the Titanic.

And Mono, when you grow up and learn more than 4 letter words or how to actually make a point, you will earn a reply, but until that time, you will just continue to look like a little kid........

DD

Mono's right. You should stick to your own team.

Kidd had great shooters at all 4 spots in NJ? I think it's easy to say Dallas surrounds him with more talent and better shooters. Again, the numbers come with time. It's ridiculous to think he's going to be considerably worse going into next season. As broken down as everyone thinks he is, he's still a high minute guy whose play is conducive to longevity. Besides, Nash isn't a spring chicken. (No need to bring up Harris, he wasn't the long-term solution here anyway)

Nash's success was tied to Don Nelson. If Nash were still here, he wouldn't have had the same numbers in Dallas under Avery's system. They wouldn't have made that run to the Finals in 2006 with Nash and Nelly's system. It just wouldn't have happened.

How can you say a team would be worse the next year when they have more time to play with their PG?

[monosylab1k]

And don't toss out that Josh Howard was initiating a good amount of the offense prior to Kidd coming over, and that is primarily the reason he has struggled.
This guy watches the Mavs a lot. Everyone knows that before the trade, the team ran their offense through Josh Howard. Devin Harris never touched the ball. Jason Terry just camped at the 3-point line. Dirk cleaned up whatever Howard couldn't get. :tu

[DaDakota]

are you kidding? for a point guard who relies on knowing & anticipating everything his teammates are going to do, to run a completely different offense, and to accept completely different coaching? one month is enough?

i was expecting better results than what we've seen, but what you just said is about is obtuse as it gets.

So if you trade Tony Romo mid-season to the Denver Broncos, and in one month he should run that offense to perfection?

The first moderatly intelligent thing you have said and without a curse word to boot, well done.

It does take some time, which is why it was S T U P I D to make the trade. Dallas was already a contender, why mess it up?

They won 67 games and ran into a hot team last year....come on, they were almost at the top of the WC when this trade happened, now they are near the bottom.

Devin Harris was a tough matchup with his speed and penetration and had shown MAJOR growth in the last couple of years...heck he was even hitting some 3s this year.

You don't trade a good young player for an over the hill star, it never works.

Take it from someone who had to watch Pippen play in Houston, it never works out.

DD

[DaDakota]

This guy watches the Mavs a lot. Everyone knows that before the trade, the team ran their offense through Josh Howard. Dirk just cleaned up whatever Howard couldn't get. :tu

I watch quite a few games, record others etc....Josh had the ball in his hands on the Wing a lot, not EVERY possession but the point was that Harris passed off to Dirk and Howard earlier in the shot clock and let them initiate the offense some.

Kidd is more of a look for a finisher type of player......it is an entirely different way of playing.

Meh, why do I bother, it is like explaining Calculus to a turtle.

DD

[monosylab1k]

Josh had the ball in his hands on the Wing a lot, not EVERY possession but the point was that Harris passed off to Dirk and Howard earlier in the shot clock and let them initiate the offense some.
This guy watches a lot of Mavs basketball since the trade. Everyone knows that Kidd doesn't pass off the Dirk or Howard early in the shot clock. He very rarely does that :tu

[DaDakota]

Mono's right. You should stick to your own team.

Kidd had great shooters at all 4 spots in NJ?

No he didn't that was entirely my point if you don't surround him with 4 competent shooters he is easy to guard. Dallas does not have the personel that Kidd needs to truly succeed.


Nash's success was tied to Don Nelson. If Nash were still here, he wouldn't have had the same numbers in Dallas under Avery's system. They wouldn't have made that run to the Finals in 2006 with Nash and Nelly's system. It just wouldn't have happened.

How can you say a team would be worse the next year when they have more time to play with their PG?

Yeah, Nash has been terrible under D'Antoni....I mean just awful.....and he was terrible running the offense in Dallas.....it is always good to give up one of the top 5 players in the league at arguably the most important position....it worked out well for you guys didn't it?

I mean the guy you brought in to replace him, you just traded....for a guy who is older than Methusola.....

Bad trade...

DD

[DaDakota]

This guy watches a lot of Mavs basketball since the trade. Everyone knows that Kidd doesn't pass off the Dirk or Howard early in the shot clock. He very rarely does that :tu

And if he does that, because it is Jason Kidd and you don't have to honor him, because he CAN'T SHOOT, it crowds the court for penetrating players like Josh.....

Again.....turtle....

DD

[monosylab1k]

Yeah, Nash has been terrible under D'Antoni
We all know D'Antoni and Don Nelson have completely opposite offensive philosophies. One guy is all about run-n-gun, and the other guy is all about....um......oh.

This guy knows his stuff :tu

[DaDakota]

We all know D'Antoni and Don Nelson have completely opposite offensive philosophies. One guy is all about run-n-gun, and the other guy is all about....um......oh.

This guy knows his stuff :tu

Yeah, Nash was terrible in Dallas, huh Turtle?

DD

[monosylab1k]

And if he does that
but already you said he didn't. he doesn't pass off and let Josh Howard create some offense. you claim to know this.

so either admit you have no clue what the hell you're talking about because you obviously don't, or just shut up and comment on your own team.

[monosylab1k]

Yeah, Nash was terrible in Dallas, huh Turtle?
Yeah Nash was coached by somebody other than Don Nelson in Dallas.

this guy knows his stuff :tu

[DaDakota]

this guy knows his stuff :tu

Thanks !!!!

Good luck with that number 14 lottery pick, tons of guys at that level turn around franchises.....

DD

[Shank]

Devin Harris was a tough matchup with his speed and penetration and had shown MAJOR growth in the last couple of years...heck he was even hitting some 3s this year.


He wasn't going to work out in Dallas anyway. Eventually, his speed and penetration will fail him. And even with all the supposed growth he'd has in Dallas, he'll never be what Kidd is even today.

The Kidd trade also brought them serviceable pieces in Allen and Wright. Both can play important roles with this team (Allen started for Dirk the other night). It's also because of this trade that we'll have to see very little, if any, Jason Terry at the point now that Lue is here.

As far as being a contender - yeah, maybe. The fans always think they're going to win the whole thing and there were a number of media outlets picking them to win the whole thing. But that doesn't mean the team itself has the make-up of a champion.

If you want to blame a lost season on anything, blame it on those that made the decisions to give roster spots to Eddie Jones, Juwan Howard and Devean George (eh...sometimes) while letting Mbenga and Fazekas just walk. Blame a coach that feels the need to micromanage every trip up and down the court - the same coach that felt the need to infuse the team with supposed veteran leadership (read: old guys) and a "system" that relies heavily on iso play. Blame the two seasons previous for seeping fear and doubt into a team that has taken such a large hit psychologically. Blame the stupid Maniaacs for all I care. But it's not right to blame any lack of success solely on the acquisition of Jason Kidd.

[DazedAndConfused]

Derek Fisher should be SUSPENDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[monosylab1k]

Thanks !!!!

Good luck with that number 14 lottery pick, tons of guys at that level turn around franchises.....

DD
Tell us more about how Steve Nash was successful in an isolation-heavy, half court offense not coached by Don Nelson or Mike D'Antoni. And explain more about how Nelson & D'Antoni have such differing offensive philosophies.

[monosylab1k]

this is like explaining Dallas Mavericks basketball to a guy who follows the Houston Rockets and doesn't know shit about the Mavericks.

oh wait...

[stretch]

Already? 18 games should be enough time to gel. Unfortunately Kidd doesn't have the speed anymore. A thing he was known for in his early days in New Jersey and Phoenix. Diop was playing 15 minutes and being very productive in rebounds and block in the little time he had. He was a defensive beast. Don't underestimate that.
shows how little you know about basketball to think that the on-court leader of the team can gel with a team of guys he has never played with before as a championship caliber team needs, within a month or two.

its like saying if you traded for a QB mid-season, that they should instantly gel after 4 or 5 games and lead their team to a SB. its ridiculous. chemistry is the most important thing to have for championship caliber teams. if you don't have chemistry, you will not win games, no matter how much talent you have on the team, as evidenced when the two Antoines came to Dallas, or when the Lakers got Malone and Payton. it doesnt always work that way.

EDIT : Sorry, I didn't see monos post. I took too long to type this post, and by time i actually posted it, there was a whole new page of replies, basically stating what I said here. lol

[DazedAndConfused]

^^Dakota doesn't know shit about basketball. He actually thinks Derek Fisher should be suspended based on that last play in the GSW game a few days ago. He's a complete moron.

[DaDakota]

Tell us more about how Steve Nash was successful in an isolation-heavy, half court offense not coached by Don Nelson or Mike D'Antoni. And explain more about how Nelson & D'Antoni have such differing offensive philosophies.

Nice try turtle.

I said the Mavs should have kept Nash, not that D'Antoni and Nelson have different philosophies, that is you trying to make up stuff.

Nash was fine in Dallas better than any PG on their team currently or since.

Big mistake......among several made by Cuban lately.

And this thread is about the trade for Kidd, read the topic....bad trade....bad move.....as I have said all along.

But, as you said...I know my stuff.

DD

[Shank]

No he didn't that was entirely my point if you don't surround him with 4 competent shooters he is easy to guard. Dallas does not have the personel that Kidd needs to truly succeed.



Yeah, Nash has been terrible under D'Antoni....I mean just awful.....and he was terrible running the offense in Dallas.....it is always good to give up one of the top 5 players in the league at arguably the most important position....it worked out well for you guys didn't it?

I mean the guy you brought in to replace him, you just traded....for a guy who is older than Methusola.....

Bad trade...

DD

Nash under D'Antoni (in a system similar to what he was already playing in Dallas) does not necessarily equal what he might have done under Avery. For all the MVPs, the hype and numbers Nash might have in Phoenix, he still hasn't made it to where the Mavs did once they played on without him. Avery probably would have shitcanned him long ago anyway, after being fed up with his terrible defense.

[Findog]

With the fourteenth pick, Kevin Love might very well be around. There's our backup center for 10-15 minutes a night. I actually kind of hope we miss the playoffs.

As for Nash vs. Kidd, Kidd can still defend against bigger guards. Nash can't guard anybody. Kidd has trouble against the quick guys like CP3 and TP, but who doesn't? Nash is a better outside shooter. That's the difference between them.

As for Nash in Phoenix versus Nash in Dallas, how do you explain the Mavs getting better without him? Is it because the Mavs got a center who can defend opposing big men? In Dallas, he played the two-man game with Dirk and did the pick and pop with the other jumpshooters on the roster. In Phoenix, they run a lot more than even Nellie did, and he's feeding Amare and Marion in transition for easy layups and dunks. I have yet to hear a compelling explanation for how the Mavs left a title or two on the floor because they let Nash walk. Nash, Dirk, Finley and Shawn Bradley, we'd already seen how that played out.

And the Suns up to this point have been a vague facsimile of Nellie's Dallas teams, a great regular season team that literally gets physically ousted from the playoffs. Maybe Shaq changes that, but I still don't see it as that big of a mistake to let Nash walk. What has Phoenix done with him that Dallas hasn't?

[DaDakota]

All you Mavs fans spouting off about how "no one but you" can understand the Mavs....

ROFLMAO.....

How could ANYONE other than a Mavs fan have an opinion on a message board? I mean HOW?

Of course since it doesn't agree with the new rose colored trade agenda, it stirs the pot.

Even if it is....100% accurate.

DD FTW !

[monosylab1k]

I said the Mavs should have kept Nash, not that D'Antoni and Nelson have different philosophies, that is you trying to make up stuff.

hm really?


Nash's success was tied to Don Nelson.


Yeah, Nash has been terrible under D'Antoni....I mean just awful.....

[DaDakota]

And the Suns up to this point have been a vague facsimile of Nellie's Dallas teams, a great regular season team that literally gets physically ousted from the playoffs. Maybe Shaq changes that, but I still don't see it as that big of a mistake to let Nash walk. What has Phoenix done with him that Dallas hasn't?

The Suns would have won it last year if it were not for Amare leaving the bench, they panicked with the Shaq move too.....

DD

[monosylab1k]

The Suns would have won it last year if it were not for Amare leaving the bench
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DaDakota]

Let it go..and just worry about the Rockets..Unforunately Dallas was not going to win with Harris...and if you actually believe they were your absolutely bonkers!

If Alston played for Avery today he would be out of the league..Avery is the biggest control freak in the world.

Look, I am no Avery fan, he reminds me of JVG, whom I HATED as the Rockets coach.....

But the Mavs getting rid of quality players is what is causing their demise....

Not the coaching...

DD

[TampaDude]

The Suns would have won it last year if it were not for Amare leaving the bench
DD

Nope...the Spurs had that series won, suspensions or no suspensions. The Suns couldn't beat the Spurs when the Suns were at full strength and the Spurs were without Horry. Give it a rest, folks. Spurs = CHAMPS.

[DaDakota]

Nope...the Spurs had that series, suspensions or no suspensions. The Suns couldn't beat the Spurs when the Suns were at full strength and the Spurs were without Horry. Give it a rest, folks. Spurs = CHAMPS.

Yep, they won, but it doesn't change my opinion.....if Amare stayed on the bench, I believe the Suns win that series and the Utah one and then the championship.

But he left the bench was suspended, and the rest is history.....

As for the thread topic.....the Mavs blew it.......

Jason Kidd is older than dirt......bad trade.

DD

[stretch]

The first moderatly intelligent thing you have said and without a curse word to boot, well done.

It does take some time, which is why it was S T U P I D to make the trade. Dallas was already a contender, why mess it up?

They won 67 games and ran into a hot team last year....come on, they were almost at the top of the WC when this trade happened, now they are near the bottom.

Devin Harris was a tough matchup with his speed and penetration and had shown MAJOR growth in the last couple of years...heck he was even hitting some 3s this year.

You don't trade a good young player for an over the hill star, it never works.

Take it from someone who had to watch Pippen play in Houston, it never works out.

DD

Well what about the Pistons trading for Aguirre? Or the Rockets trading for Clyde? Or the Pistons more recently trading for Sheed?

[monosylab1k]

The Suns would have won it last year if it were not for Amare leaving the bench
I think he's completely killed his credibility with this. As if posting opinions so moronic that mavsfan1000 looked like a genius in comparison didn't do that already.

If Amare didn't leave the bench the Spurs would have won in 7. Unless Tim Duncan died before game 7. Then the Suns would have won and then gotten beat by Utah.

[DaDakota]

they got rid a back up center who doesn't play and a decent point guard for a hall of fame point guard..how was that a stupid trade? Especially considering they needed leadership and mental toughness which what Kidd has!

Over rated, how many championships has the mentally tough Kidd won?


Also, if you don't think coaching has anything to do with it..why are the Rockets playing better without Van Gundy with Yao injured?

I think the type of coaching has a big effect, but I don't think you take a team to 67 wins and then all of the sudden forget how to coach. If the team has given up on Avery, they have to let him go.....no biggie.

As for JVG....GOOD RIDDANCE.....we are so much better without him.

But, the team needed to play for him to get his professionalism and to teach Tmac and Yao how to play D...then they were ready for a players coach like Adelman.

The difference between the Rockets and the Mavs is that the Rockets players are all in their prime, while Jason Kidd farts dust.

DD

[DazedAndConfused]

Dakota = dumbass trash. Don't argue with him, he knows nothing about basketball.

DEREK FISHER SHOULD BE SUPSENDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DaDakota]

Well what about the Pistons trading for Aguirre? Or the Rockets trading for Clyde? Or the Pistons more recently trading for Sheed?

A fair point but I am not sure that any of those teams traded a good young player.....at least in the Rockets case it was Otis Thorpe for Clyde essentially veteran for veteran.

Not sure about the rest.

DD

[monosylab1k]

Dakota = dumbass trash. Don't argue with him, he knows nothing about basketball.
No no no in his infinite wisdom he told me that Jason Kidd never lets Dirk or Howard create offense, that Steve Nash has been successful in a slow iso offense, and that Don Nelson & Mike D'Antoni have completely different offensive philosophies. It's incredible stuff.

[DaDakota]

Dakota = dumbass trash. Don't argue with him, he knows nothing about basketball.

DEREK FISHER SHOULD BE SUPSENDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You and Mono should really get together, maybe you could actually string some of your 4 letter words together to make a compound curse word.

Such eloquonce.....or is it ignorance.

DD

[DaDakota]

No no no in his infinite wisdom he told me that Jason Kidd never lets Dirk or Howard create offense, that Steve Nash has been successful in a slow iso offense, and that Don Nelson & Mike D'Antoni have completely different offensive philosophies. It's incredible stuff.

Sorry, I am still trying to find a slow down offense that Jason Kidd has been successful in.......

LOL

DD

[monosylab1k]

eloquonce
maybe you should just stick to 4-letter words because anything bigger isn't working out too well for ya.

[monosylab1k]

Sorry, I am still trying to find a slow down offense that Jason Kidd has been successful in....
Nobody claimed he had been. Nice job, uh, reading.

[DaDakota]

maybe you should just stick to 4-letter words because anything bigger isn't working out too well for ya.

I never could spell.....

But my takes are spot on.......without the classless cursing.

DD

[DaDakota]

You really are a moron aren't you? Kidd isn't mentally tough? He is probably one of the top 5 point guards ever to play the game. It's his fault that the Nets ended playing my Spurs and the Lakers in the finals?


Look I think his mental toughness is vastly overated, yes he is an all time great, a wonderful PG.....

But that was 3 years ago.....now, he is like Hakeem in Toronto, his time has passed.

I am sure Barkley and MJ are still mentally tough too, but they couldn't get it done anymore either.

DD

[monosylab1k]

But my takes are spot on
:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao
:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao
:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao
:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

yeah "Jason Kidd doesn't let Josh or Dirk run the offense" was just so accurate.

[Findog]

The Suns would have won it last year if it were not for Amare leaving the bench, they panicked with the Shaq move too.....

DD

Absolutely false. Spurs went 3-2 against Amare, and I'd go with them and their poise in a G7 over Duhmare. Championship teams win on the road. Championship teams win when facing elimination.

[stretch]

You and Mono should really get together, maybe you could actually string some of your 4 letter words together to make a compound curse word.

Such eloquonce.....or is it ignorance.

DD
the only 4 letter word he used was "with".

[DaDakota]

yeah "Jason Kidd doesn't let Josh or Dirk run the offense" was just so accurate.

Laugh all the way to the lottery with that mentally tough Kidd.

DD

[monosylab1k]

Laugh all the way to the lottery with that mentally tough Kidd.
Explain why you were completely wrong about the Mavs offense with Kidd, Mr. "I want intelligent discussion with eloquonce". Explain that bit of "intelligent discussion".

[nkdlunch]

you guys are funny blaming all on Avery. WHen it was Marc Cuban who created and blessed the Kidd Trade.

face it, the biggest problem is the owner and there is really no way to fix that.

[DaDakota]

Mono,

Just because your reading comprehension is lacking does not mean you can't understand the game.

Harris was a better fit for the Mavs overall than Kidd.

Maybe not 3 years ago, but today...

IMHO, you do not break up a team that won 67 games and was basically a couple of made free throws from going up 3-0 the year before....

Sorry, this trade failed, what is the Mavs record again since the trade?

DD

[stretch]

you guys are funny blaming all on Avery. WHen it was Marc Cuban who created and blessed the Kidd Trade.

face it, the biggest problem is the owner and there is really no way to fix that.
most mavs fans don't have a problem with the trade right now. at least the ones in this thread. our issue is with the terrible coaching.

[Indazone]

Gotta get rid of the control freak but do you really think Cuban will pull the trigger?

[DaDakota]

Adam,

Did Avery assemble the Mavs roster or did Cuban/Nelson do it?

Why is it Avery's fault if he is coaching pieces that don't quite fit anymore?

DD

[monosylab1k]

Mono,

Just because your reading comprehension is lacking does not mean you can't understand the game.

Harris was a better fit for the Mavs overall than Kidd.

Maybe not 3 years ago, but today...

IMHO, you do not break up a team that won 67 games and was basically a couple of made free throws from going up 3-0 the year before....

Sorry, this trade failed, what is the Mavs record again since the trade?

DD
You didn't answer my question. I want some "intelligent discussion" here. Answer the question.

[ratm1221]

Harris was a better fit for the Mavs overall than Kidd.

???

Edit: this originally said Kidd for Kidd.. guess he changed it.

[DaDakota]

most mavs fans don't have a problem with the trade right now. at least the ones in this thread. our issue is with the terrible coaching.


Really? The Mavs fans are ok with the trade and the free fall in the standings?

What place were the Mavs in when they made the trade? What was their record against good teams?

Unreal that you guys are ok with that trade that everyone else in the NBA can see made you a lot weaker....

WOW !!!

Oh well, it was good for my team.

DD

[DaDakota]

You didn't answer my question. I want some "intelligent discussion" here. Answer the question.

Sorry, you don't get to dictate discussion. I am still waiting on you to explain how the Kidd trade was good for the Mavs.

DD

[Shank]

Really? The Mavs fans are ok with the trade and the free fall in the standings?

What place were the Mavs in when they made the trade? What was their record against good teams?

Unreal that you guys are ok with that trade that everyone else in the NBA can see made you a lot weaker....

WOW !!!

Oh well, it was good for my team.

DD

I'll just ask you this, then - because I'm going to love to see your answer...

If you were building a team today and could pick from either Jason Kidd or Devin Harris, which would you take?

[monosylab1k]

Sorry, you don't get to dictate discussion. I am still waiting on you to explain how the Kidd trade was good for the Mavs.

DD

I've explained that already. Many times over. "Just because your reading comprehension is lacking does not mean you can't understand the game."

And still no "intelligent discussion" about how someone could write something as blatantly inaccurate as this -


Josh had the ball in his hands on the Wing a lot, not EVERY possession but the point was that Harris passed off to Dirk and Howard earlier in the shot clock and let them initiate the offense some.

Kidd is more of a look for a finisher type of player......it is an entirely different way of playing.

[nkdlunch]

most mavs fans don't have a problem with the trade right now. at least the ones in this thread. our issue is with the terrible coaching.

like someone said, Cuban took some key pieces from Avery and replaced with pieces that don't fit his system.

[monosylab1k]

like someone said, Cuban took some key pieces from Avery and replaced with pieces that don't fit his system.
Avery was on board with the trade.

[Indazone]

Avery wasn't that good but he did have Del Harris. Now you are seeing the results of not having Harris anymore behind Avery. He doesn't know how to run the team. Put people in positions of succeeding. He micromanages every aspect. I was talking to a friend of mine two years ago and we both came to the conclusion that once Del Harris left the Mavericks, that Avery would be exposed. Now it's coming true sorry to say.

[ludda]

:lmao at this thread.

May be a "bad" trade with the current results, but anyone who thinks the Mavs with Harris was going anywhere is a fool. 67 wins means shit, they didn't get destroyed by a "bad matchup," Baron Davis did exactly what Wade did to them, Nellie and Riley had their way with Avery, GS and Miami forced the Mav's already stagnant ISO to become even more stagnant. By the end of the two series, everyone knew how to beat the Mavs. They were already free-falling after GS, November regular season standings don't mean shit.

[Findog]

Gotta get rid of the control freak but do you really think Cuban will pull the trigger?

I wouldn't be surprised if Avery resigned. He hates Cuban's guts.

[stretch]

like someone said, Cuban took some key pieces from Avery and replaced with pieces that don't fit his system.
actually, Avery was the one who from the day he started coaching, wanted Jason Kidd.

[nkdlunch]

"wanted Jason Kidd"
that is possible.

"wanted Jason Kidd in exchange for Diop and Harris"
I don't think so.

I could swear I heard that Avery was not on board with this trade initially.

[Shank]

I wouldn't be surprised if Avery resigned. He hates Cuban's guts.

If anything, it will be one of those "I've enjoyed my time here, need to step back, time with my family, looking to move on, thanks to Mark for everything, etc." mutual buyout type of thing where everyone acts all sad-happy to go, but inside they can't wait to get the hell out the door.

[stretch]

I could swear I heard that Avery was not on board with this trade initially.
Link?

[monosylab1k]

I could swear I heard that Avery was not on board with this trade initially.
There was some speculation about that since Avery said all year "we like our team" but it turns out that he was just towing the company line and that, to his credit, he saw the writing on the wall and wanted a roster shakeup after the GS series. Unfortunately he hasn't gone about this season the right way and that's made things a lot worse.

[Findog]

If we don't beat Denver tonight, our season is over. Then I can start beating my meat to Kevin Love, metaphorically speaking of course.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Jason Kidd is player just like Rafer Alston. He is "good" because some type of dumb coach believe this is "true" point guard. Some stubborn NBA coach like only such players. These player can not shoot. Player like these struggle shoot 40% FG and 34% 3 point and they WIDE OPEN shot almost every shot they take! :rolleyes

But these player good defense good ball handler good passer good driver player like Kidd very good rebounder very good passer so they "real" point guard. But this because many retard coach in NBA like Jeff Van Gundy, Lawrence Frank and all these type that believe ball does not have to actual go in hoop to win game.

Most high school player can shoot ball better than these "good" point guard. In basketball game player must be able shoot or score ball if play point guard. This same as Spanoulis get bench all year by Van Gundy for try explain him it stupid thing coach instruct him stand at 3 point line and shoot ball and do nothing else if play point guard just dribble ball up court pass to T-Mac then stand at 3 point line.

Kidd have been play for same kind of retard coach. Avery Johnson is same type of retard coach and Cuban is retard owner. Nash is is supposed not as good as Kidd because "defense" but Nash know how to actual make play score OR assist same as Spanoulis but these retard coach believe only "real" point guard can make assist and shoot wide open 3 pointer :blah

IDIOTS why they think player like Kidd or Alston is always left open by defense? These coach call this "good shot". Harris is player than can penetrate and get assist or score same way he "not as good as Kidd" :rolleyes

NBA coach, managers, fans have many strange way of rate what "good" player mean.

[Findog]

^ Can somebody put that into babelfish for me? Apparently all I can make out is that Rafer Alston is just as good as Jason Kidd.

[Findog]

Is V-Span really better than Jason Kidd?

[stretch]

^ Can somebody put that into babelfish for me? Apparently all I can make out is that Rafer Alston is just as good as Jason Kidd.
yea, by the second sentence, I was already lost in that pile of nonsense.

[mavs>spurs2]

yea, by the second sentence, I was already lost in that pile of nonsense.

He's saying that nba personel actually looks at other aspects of the game besides shooting to determine what's a good point guard. He thinks because VSpan can shoot he's better than Kidd, a hall of fame pg. :rolleyes, basically he's delusional.

[monosylab1k]

I like how DaDakota refuses to answer questions when he knows he is wrong.

He isn't about intelligent discussion like he claims, he's all about trolling. What a little bitch.

[RonMexico]

Who is Jason Kidd?

[mavs>spurs2]

I like how DaDakota refuses to answer questions when he knows he is wrong.

He isn't about intelligent discussion like he claims, he's all about trolling. What a little bitch.

Don't let him get you all worked up then. Whether he's trolling or just this stupid, his opinions are irrelevant and innacurate. Ignore is a great tool for trolls who unlike SpursDynasty aren't the least but amusing, only annoying.

[monosylab1k]

Ignore is a great tool for trolls who unlike SpursDynasty aren't the least but amusing, only annoying.
haha, where has little pinky been lately?

[Indazone]

Avery Johnson wanted to trade Dirk for a back to the basket center. Umm..yeah right. What Johnson and every other know it all coach doesn't realize is that these players don't grow on trees. You work with what you got. Keep the best players and surround them with role players. A player like Dirk you will never see again for a very long time.

[mattb_25]

.... Wow, I mean do you guys forget how bad we were playing close to the All-star break.. If any reason we had to make a trade to get some wins. If you don't believe that Avery is to fault for our horrid offense output, then thats just stupid.

If anything, the trade has shown how bad Avery has become. Has anyone seen Harris over at NJ? The kid is dishing out more assists than Kidd is here.. Who would of ever thought that would happen. Seriously, I think almost every Mav fan is sick of Avery's bullshit 'system'.`

[mavs>spurs2]

haha, where has little pinky been lately?

I'm not sure, I saw him crawl out from under his rock once since the pinking, only to disappear again shortly after. Maybe he's brainstorming to come back during the playoffs with a vengeance :lol

[monosylab1k]

Avery Johnson wanted to trade Dirk for a back to the basket center. Umm..yeah right. What Johnson and every other know it all coach doesn't realize is that these players don't grow on trees. You work with what you got. Keep the best players and surround them with role players. A player like Dirk you will never see again for a very long time.
:tu

I knee-jerked and demanded a KG-for-Dirk trade after the GS series. In hindsight I was definitely wrong about Dirk. He isn't mentally damaged or soft in the head, it's the guys around him that are.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

What I am say is that Kidd is no different from Alston he just better passer better rebounder he is BETTER but same type of player. And I am say that ONLY STUPID NBA type coach as they call it in Europe "old school" coach really believe these type of point guard can lead team to win against true other good teams.

But in America most NBA manager, coach, fans believe only this way of basketball. This is part of many reasons why Argentina and Greece kick team US asses yet ask any American fan and they believe NBA is million times better than basketball any other place.

Just like thread here even though Kidd suck as player stupid fans still argue he is better than Harris is who is actual a solid player. But what else can such fans know? They have great coach like Nelson and replace him by loud mouth IDIOT who is same type as Van Gundy and they believe he "better" than Nelson at first.

I see Maverick fans are as much stupid as Rockets fans. Spurs fans is general much smarter than Rockets fans and I see also Mavericks fans. Mavericks fans here sound EXACT same like Rockets fans on Rockets fan site. These idiot believe Rick Adelman was poor coach "he coach no defense" he "will ruin Yao Ming" "Jeff van Gundy is champion defense coach and make Yao warrior"

I see hundred type of idiot nonsense and I see Mavericks fans just as dumb or even more dumber :rolleyes Foreign teams are beating Team US even with not as good athlete of player because unlike US they have smart players and smart coach, NBA has make so many retard coach retard players that even fans are know nothing about basketball. It is joke read some of this crap here.

[Indazone]

Harris is doing great at the Nets cause their system is geared for PG success and lots of motion with the high post offense. The Mav's offensive sets will turn Kidd "An Allstar" into an average PG like Rafer Alston.

[monosylab1k]

This is part of many reasons why Argentina and Greece kick team US asses yet ask any American fan and they believe NBA is million times better than basketball any other place.
No it's because FIBA is poorly organized, there is an Anti-American bias, and the refs suck. The fact that one of the best basketball players on the planet can look like a guy who's never played in his life, and even vowed to never play in FIBA again, says it all.

[mavs>spurs2]

But in America most NBA manager, coach, fans believe only this way of basketball. This is part of many reasons why Argentina and Greece kick team US asses yet ask any American fan and they believe NBA is million times better than basketball any other place.

America IS much better at basketball than any other place. Soft Euro pussies have no place in the NBA, even the good ones like Dirk who succeed in this league have to adjust their game. America puts together a team at the last minute, goes out throws some alley-oops has fun and still wins more gold medals than any other country. Just because we got the bronze last time around only means that the team was poorly coached and constructed. If these guys played together year round and had an actual plan like these other countries national teams then there would be no point to even play the games.

[Indazone]

I've said it once I'll say it again. Jason Kidd is overrated. He's got inflated assist number just by playing in the Nets system. You will see Devin Harris's assist numbers go through the roof now as he plays more in NJ. Jason Kidd is an old average PG and will average about 5-6 assists a game in Dallas. Can't shoot the three ball either.

[monosylab1k]

http://withmalice.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/tim-duncan.jpg
"FIBA sucks."

[Findog]

Can't shoot the three ball either.

Actually he can. It's anything mid-range that he bricks.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

No it's because FIBA is poorly organized, there is an Anti-American bias, and the refs suck. The fact that one of the best basketball players on the planet can look like a guy who's never played in his life, and even vowed to never play in FIBA again, says it all.

NCAA and NBA have very stupid coaches. These coaches that get called even "good" are very below standards of Europe. This thing you say in post to me is proof what i say even fans of NBA have see so much poor coach basketball that they now not even know what real basketball is which is like you as what you say is easy and obvious to see.

Dream Teams of US never say "refs and FIBA rules makes it impossible to play different game"

I guess it strange thing how Bird, Jordan, Magic have no problem with these same rules and refs only players like Wade, Lebron, Howard, Amare. Maybe NBA fans should learn basketball again just maybe their players and coaches too. Many NBA coaches do not even respect foreign player now because they still have basketball skill this is like consider as negative in NBA.

Wade is "next Jordan" and "next Jordan" look like CRAP player when have to play against Greece and FAIR refs and ACTUAL defense. These player have no skill for game. Yes it true American players can not win because of "refs" because in FIBA game is called base on RULES not base on bets.

[Findog]

The US would slaughter any team under NBA rules. And it's no surprise that they struggle in FIBA play when they hastily assemble a roster and are going up against national teams that have played together forever.

[Shank]

I've said it once I'll say it again. Jason Kidd is overrated. He's got inflated assist number just by playing in the Nets system. You will see Devin Harris's assist numbers go through the roof now as he plays more in NJ. Jason Kidd is an old average PG and will average about 5-6 assists a game in Dallas. Can't shoot the three ball either.

He's shooting 45% from 3, compared to Devin's 28%. And he'll consistently put up better assist numbers over Devin. Devin had his chance to prove everyone wrong in his first game back in Dallas and proceeded to shit the bed.

[monosylab1k]

I guess it strange thing how Bird, Jordan, Magic have no problem with these same rules and refs
It helped that the other team was more interested in getting autographs than playing the game.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

America IS much better at basketball than any other place. Soft Euro pussies have no place in the NBA, even the good ones like Dirk who succeed in this league have to adjust their game. America puts together a team at the last minute, goes out throws some alley-oops has fun and still wins more gold medals than any other country. Just because we got the bronze last time around only means that the team was poorly coached and constructed. If these guys played together year round and had an actual plan like these other countries national teams then there would be no point to even play the games.

You have not won any tournament since 2000. You are just country of all talk and arrogance. American basketball system and basketball fans are laugh at here in Europe. It is big joke here these days listen to how you talk how superior you are and not win any tournament since 2000. Rest of world have absolute zero fear of US team anymore.

[monosylab1k]

And it's no surprise that they struggle in FIBA play when they hastily assemble a roster and are going up against national teams that have played together forever.
I really wonder who thought it was a good idea to put Stephon Marbury on that team. That was the biggest mistake they made.

[Indazone]

He's shooting 45% from 3, compared to Devin's 28%. And he'll consistently put up better assist numbers over Devin. Devin had his chance to prove everyone wrong in his first game back in Dallas and proceeded to shit the bed.

Kidd has been lucky so far. I predict his three pt shooting will soon come back to his career averages.

[monosylab1k]

American basketball system and basketball fans are laugh at here in Europe.
Yet everyone Euro player would kill to be in the NBA. I wonder why.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

The US would slaughter any team under NBA rules. And it's no surprise that they struggle in FIBA play when they hastily assemble a roster and are going up against national teams that have played together forever.

Then how come Dream Team I and II are put together fast sign autograph and play under same rules and have no problem? No chance that perhaps Americans live in dream world and refuse admit there players are no longer so good as once were?

No cannot be must be because of "refs" even though it same refs as before :rolleyes

[Shank]

Kidd has been lucky so far. I predict his three pt shooting will soon come back to his career averages.

Even if it does, it's still higher than Harris'.

[monosylab1k]

America still has the greatest basketball players, they're far superior, and the rules have to be adjusted to give the other countries a chance. That's how it is.

This is an AMERICAN SPORT invented by an AMERICAN and if you don't like it you can GET OUT OF AMERICA!

http://islandfox.org/uploaded_images/beagle-706532.jpg

Oh wait Naismith was a Canadian. SHIT!

[Shank]

America - Fuck Yeah!

[mavs>spurs2]

Then how come Dream Team I and II are put together fast sign autograph and play under same rules and have no problem? No chance that perhaps Americans live in dream world and refuse admit there players are no longer so good as once were?

No cannot be must be because of "refs" even though it same refs as before :rolleyes

You lost all credibility when you thought V-Span was a good basketball player. You don't know shit about the game besides riding Euro cock, be gone pest.

[Indazone]

Dream Team I and II were the best teams ever assembled on the planet. No USA team today could beat those old teams. Plus you can't even get our best players to represent the USA today cause most NBA Superstars don't want to risk their careers to play in a meaningless Olympic series. Pansies all of them.

In fact, where is Tim Duncan and Shaq??? Being wussies that's what. They both got invited to join Team USA and they both wussed out.

[Findog]

Then how come Dream Team I and II are put together fast sign autograph and play under same rules and have no problem? No chance that perhaps Americans live in dream world and refuse admit there players are no longer so good as once were?

No cannot be must be because of "refs" even though it same refs as before :rolleyes

1992 Forum. The rest of the world has done a good job of closing the gap between the US and themselves. I didnt say anything about the refs. It's pretty simple: the US would win under NBA rules and they are on an uphill climb under FIBA rules.

[monosylab1k]

But seriously, yes the rest of the world has caught up to America. while it's arrogant to think that the US should win every international game by 40+ points, i still say the US has the best players and oughta win a gold medal every time.

And FIBA and their shitty refs and Anti-American bias don't help.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Yet everyone Euro player would kill to be in the NBA. I wonder why.

There are many players of Europe who never came to NBA that are comparabel with some of best ever NBA players. American fans not know players like Belov or Galis. Galis is not even consider best European player by most Americans they always name Sabonis or Petrovic or Schmidt or players such as these. It same thing not know anything about some of game in Europe.

Galis is Greek American he born in New Jersey and play at Seton Hall. NBA say he not good enough for them because he 6-0 shoot guard and he not like play point guard same type of player like Iverson. You see Galis play you understand how stupid NBA teams can be. They not want such player? He is most unable to be stop by defense scorer you can imagine. He is unreal scorer. Only player I see can be compare to his scoring is maybe Jordan and still I think Galis better scorer. NBA teams not even want him.

NBA is all run and jump and no brain. This how player like Nash which is small no athletic ability not so fast not good jumper not good defense can be 2 time MVP of NBA because he have actual brain, good brain and smart player and compete against retards.

[Findog]

Team USA is Numero Uno and if the rest of the world don't like it, they can suck down a failure pile from KFC.

America, eatin' my lunch from a single bowl in my parents basement, where I'm livin'. Happy Birthday, I'm forty-three.

Don't want to waste those precious calories...chewin'. Jesus come move my jaw for me, help me get my sloppy food down my throat

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

America still has the greatest basketball players, they're far superior, and the rules have to be adjusted to give the other countries a chance. That's how it is.

This is an AMERICAN SPORT invented by an AMERICAN and if you don't like it you can GET OUT OF AMERICA!

http://islandfox.org/uploaded_images/beagle-706532.jpg

Oh wait Naismith was a Canadian. SHIT!

I am fan of Panathinaikos our team is play profession basketball in 1922 NBA is not even create until 1947 this is myth that basketball is American game. We have professional leagues in Greece long time before anyone even care about game in US.

[K-State Spur]

fact of the matter is this:

in dallas, Harris was not a good fit for Avery's system (square peg vs. round hole)

in NJ, Kidd was playing in an offense that was built around his strengths.

...and Harris was STILL having a better year than Kidd when Dallas made the deal.

[Indazone]

There are many players of Europe who never came to NBA that are comparabel with some of best ever NBA players. American fans not know players like Belov or Galis. Galis is not even consider best European player by most Americans they always name Sabonis or Petrovic or Schmidt or players such as these. It same thing not know anything about some of game in Europe.

Galis is Greek American he born in New Jersey and play at Seton Hall. NBA say he not good enough for them because he 6-0 shoot guard and he not like play point guard same type of player like Iverson. You see Galis play you understand how stupid NBA teams can be. They not want such player? He is most unable to be stop by defense scorer you can imagine. He is unreal scorer. Only player I see can be compare to his scoring is maybe Jordan and still I think Galis better scorer. NBA teams not even want him.

NBA is all run and jump and no brain. This how player like Nash which is small no athletic ability not so fast not good jumper not good defense can be 2 time MVP of NBA because he have actual brain, good brain and smart player and compete against retards.

LOL...well there is that deal where Stern said no more bling bling and all NBA players gotta wear suits. Guess that means there's an anti hip hop culture going on with top management. So the answer? Bring in all the Euro's. wow now we got white basketball players again.

[Findog]

Nash is a terrific athlete. WTF are you talking about? Just because he doesn't play above the rim doesn't mean he's slow, uncoordinated and unskilled.

[Indazone]

Team USA is Numero Uno and if the rest of the world don't like it, they can suck down a failure pile from KFC.

America, eatin' my lunch from a single bowl in my parents basement, where I'm livin'. Happy Birthday, I'm forty-three.

Don't want to waste those precious calories...chewin'. Jesus come move my jaw for me, help me get my sloppy food down my throat

please don't post that crap here. Leave it in the troll thread.

[monosylab1k]

I am fan of Panathinaikos our team is play profession basketball in 1922 NBA is not even create until 1947 this is myth that basketball is American game. We have professional leagues in Greece long time before anyone even care about game in US.
I was making a joke.

And basketball has been played in college in America since it was invented.

[stretch]

please don't post that crap here. Leave it in the troll thread.
America, eatin' my lunch from a single bowl in my parents basement, where I'm livin'. Happy Birthday, I'm forty-three.

Don't want to waste those precious calories...chewin'. Jesus come move my jaw for me, help me get my sloppy food down my throat

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

You lost all credibility when you thought V-Span was a good basketball player. You don't know shit about the game besides riding Euro cock, be gone pest.

Truth is Spanoulis is much better player than Kidd is. There is some point guard in NBA I maybe say better than Spanoulis is now like Nash, Williams of Utah because Spanoulis do not have time play against better athlete players of NBA and this is where he have weakness only be solve by get time against better athlete players.

Spanoulis is better player at this time than Kidd is by easy amount.

[Findog]

Right, which is why V-Span couldnt get off the bench in Houston and whined like a bitch about it. And San Antonio couldn't find a use for him either when TP's backup is Jacque Vaughan.

[Indazone]

USA Basketball of the home grown variety doesn't value passing, shooting and dribbling fundamentals much anymore. If anything, the kids skills have gotten worse coming out of high school with their fundamentals. All they see is highlight reels on sportscenter of guys dunking the ball. So what you get are players that are focused on dunking the ball. They can't shoot the long ball. The ball handling isn't as good as what it used to be.

Are there any guys better today than Magic, Bird or even cough Isiah Thomas?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Nash is a terrific athlete. WTF are you talking about? Just because he doesn't play above the rim doesn't mean he's slow, uncoordinated and unskilled.

He is average athlete at best. Even for consider he is athlete who train body all life he is actual very poor athlete.

[Indazone]

Right, which is why V-Span couldnt get off the bench in Houston and whined like a bitch about it. And San Antonio couldn't find a use for him either when TP's backup is Jacque Vaughan.

Can you say Van Gundy? The same guy who butted heads with Bonzi Wells all season long and didn't give him any playing time?

[Findog]

Can you say Van Gundy? The same guy who butted heads with Bonzi Wells all season long and didn't give him any playing time?

Why should he have? Bonzi showed up fat and out of shape, and butthurt that he didnt get a big deal in FA.

[Findog]

He is average athlete at best. Even for consider he is athlete who train body all life he is actual very poor athlete.

And V-Span is better than all but 3 NBA PGs, Alston = Kidd, etc.

[Indazone]

Actually he wasn't hurt. He could play. He also benched Cuttino Mobley once for something stupid and put him on the injured reserved list "strained left buttock" In other words strained left ass cheek.

Ahh the famous JVG doghouse.

[mavs>spurs2]

Truth is Spanoulis is much better player than Kidd is. There is some point guard in NBA I maybe say better than Spanoulis is now like Nash, Williams of Utah because Spanoulis do not have time play against better athlete players of NBA and this is where he have weakness only be solve by get time against better athlete players.

Spanoulis is better player at this time than Kidd is by easy amount.

Please, Spanoulis can't even step on the court in an NBA game. It's not even an arguement about who is the better player, fact is Spanoulis couldn't even get backup minutes. The best players get to play, simple as that, and V-Span wasn't good enough to play at this level.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Right, which is why V-Span couldnt get off the bench in Houston and whined like a bitch about it. And San Antonio couldn't find a use for him either when TP's backup is Jacque Vaughan.

Vaughn is not even player as Alston. Alston make him look like joke. You have no idea what player like Spanoulis can do. He is much better than these players. Simple true facts that fan like you not aware of it is part of reason like I say America is lose international games.

Because NBA coaches do not want player with brain most of time. Spanoulis is player can coach on floor and play with own brain. van Gundy do not want a player he want a ROBOT. Player such as Yao is Chinese he will do as told by coach this is his way of learn game.

Player such as T-Mac and Alston is weak mind player and do not have mental strengths to understand coach is Napoleon who want robots. Spanoulis is player with good brain and from system where coach expect player be able to think without coach.

Avery Johnson is same way like Van Gundy and this is how in America "real basketball" is say to be by fans even. NO. Real basketball is Adelman way. Spanoulis will be play 35 minute no problem if Adelman is coach. But Rocket fans say Adelman will ruin team and beloeved "great" van Gundy is gone just like stupid Kings owners get rid of Adelman and wish they can get such coach like Van Gundy :rolleyes

In Europe Adelman is typical of top level coaches in NBA he is like Messiah compare to how bad typical coaches are.

[Findog]

If V-Span was as good as you say he is, then he would be on an NBA roster right now. JVG is a sharp basketball mind, and he had no use for him. Gregg Popovich is an even keener basketball mind, and he didnt want V-Span. Give it up.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

And V-Span is better than all but 3 NBA PGs, Alston = Kidd, etc.

Baron Davis
Deron Williams
Steve Nash

I say right now better than Spanoulis. One of reason like say Spanoulis need good play time against better such point guards which he have not had yet. His game need grow more against such players.

I honest not even think Chris Paul right now is better than Spanoulis. NBA fans believe Calderon and Navarro even are better player than Spanoulis and I honest think this is really bit funny. They are not in same ability as Spanoulis. I see Rockets fans dreams about get Calderon it funny because same fan say Spanoulis "trash" he is actual much better player than Calderon.

[Indazone]

Vspan has yet to prove himself in the NBA. Never got enough minutes and was asked to play away from his main skillsets. Vspan is a slashing penetrating guard who gets assists off the collapsing defenses. JVG made him camp out at the three and play hard defense. Vspan is not a 3 pt shooter just like Parker is a horrible 3 pt shooter. What coach makes a horrible 3 pt shooter camp out at the 3?

[Findog]

All I know is that Mike D'Antoni is considered a genius in Europe.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

If V-Span was as good as you say he is, then he would be on an NBA roster right now. JVG is a sharp basketball mind, and he had no use for him. Gregg Popovich is an even keener basketball mind, and he didnt want V-Span. Give it up.

Van Gundy is very stupid. Spanoulis rate him as dumbest and worst coach he have in whole life. Spanoulis also say Popovich is very good coach. Also Popovich ask Spanoulis to play and please stay with team so you not understand basic fact of situation.

Spanoulis not matter basic thing is true. Kidd is overrate player and this same way that America NBA and basketball way has got weaker. Kidd cannot shoot basketball there is time in NBA such player can never be call "good" now on Tv watch game he always call "one of best ever" I have see players like Magic and Stockton plays and they is so much more good player than Kidd it is joke he is compare to them.

You keep talks about player such as Wade, Howard, Amare, Lebron on US and how great they are. It is make up thing. US basketball is drop down and this why rest of world can beat you now. Player like Kobe is TRUE great great player. Player like Lebron, Howard and these are just not.

[mavs>spurs2]

Blaming it all on the coaches is a bunch of bullshit. If Spanoulis was one of the best point guards in the league then he would get to play, plain and simple. Certain players do better in different systems but one thing remains the same, great players DO at least get playing time.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Vspan has yet to prove himself in the NBA. Never got enough minutes and was asked to play away from his main skillsets. Vspan is a slashing penetrating guard who gets assists off the collapsing defenses. JVG made him camp out at the three and play hard defense. Vspan is not a 3 pt shooter just like Parker is a horrible 3 pt shooter. What coach makes a horrible 3 pt shooter camp out at the 3?

This true if Parker be demand by coach only allow dribble ball pass to T-Mac stand behind 3 point line then shoot ball how good will Parker be? Spanoulis consider Popovich very good coach he consider Van Gundy person that need be slap in face. Also true issue is Yao and T-Mac not even like how Van Gundy do many things.

[JamStone]

Yeah, Spurs wouldn't even make playoffs in Euro league. What are we thinking? Kill Bill is the greatest basketballer in the world. LeBron would just be an ok player in Europe. That guy is just average. Kill Bill would own the NBA just like Saras did.

[Indazone]

Well actually Lebron is in Kobe's league. I would love to see Lebron push Kobe in scoring but I don't think he'll ever get that playing for Mike Brown. It's simply amazing what effect a coach will have on a players stats. Every single player who played for Jeff Van Gundy with the exception of T-Mac had lower stats than when they played on other teams.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

All I know is that Mike D'Antoni is considered a genius in Europe.

This is not true and he is at best average coach if he is in Euroleague. You think he is as good coach as Obradovic? Messina? :blah

D'Antoni is stubborn coach with short rotation and also think he know everything of all about game. He is medium even level coach nothing more.

[Indazone]

Blaming it all on the coaches is a bunch of bullshit. If Spanoulis was one of the best point guards in the league then he would get to play, plain and simple. Certain players do better in different systems but one thing remains the same, great players DO at least get playing time.

Yeah? Then what happened to Fabio? Walter Hermann?

[mavs>spurs2]

This is not true and he is at best average coach if he is in Euroleague. You think he is as good coach as Obradovic? Messina? :blah

D'Antoni is stubborn coach with short rotation and also think he know everything of all about game. He is medium even level coach nothing more.

Average in Europe, horrible in NBA.

[Indazone]

Blaming it all on the coaches is a bunch of bullshit. If Spanoulis was one of the best point guards in the league then he would get to play, plain and simple. Certain players do better in different systems but one thing remains the same, great players DO at least get playing time.

Truth is Walter Hermann is buried on the Piston's bench. Herman is really good and put up great numbers at the end of last year. He's a great player who got screwed by Saunders.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Yeah, Spurs wouldn't even make playoffs in Euro league. What are we thinking? Kill Bill is the greatest basketballer in the world. LeBron would just be an ok player in Europe. That guy is just average. Kill Bill would own the NBA just like Saras did.

LeBron is very good player. You not understand what I mean. I mean even though Lebron is great player he is not player America and NBA make him to be. Kobe is true player that is all that he is make to be. Lebron is not Bird, Magic, Jordan but Kobe can be compare to them. It is just media make up Lebron is this good.

Great player yes but not as good as hype. This what I mean.

Also Saras suck. He sucks in Europe and he always suck IMO. He is most overrate player in world and it is laughable thing how listen to American fan always use him as "he best Euroleague player ever" look what he do in NBA. For you to get some fact right he play on same team as Spanoulis and Spanoulis is many level better than him.

Coach cannot even wait to get rid of "greatest Euroleague player ever". Saras never even play on team where he is even 2nd best player on own team in Europe. This is fact and it funny because NBA fans not even realize all they hear about him in Europe was thing call made up lie and hype same thing I am explain to you that also you hear about your own players.

Saras is not even that good player at Euroleague level. Even in Greek league he is one of worst defenders in league. Same hype lies that create this Saras myth in Europe and US is same ones create myth Wade is "next Jordan".

[mavs>spurs2]

Truth is Walter Hermann is buried on the Piston's bench. Herman is really good and put up great numbers at the end of last year. He's a great player who got screwed by Saunders.

At least at some point someone saw enough potential in him to give the guy a chance, and he is still in the league which is more than can be said for V-Span. And you're also not claiming that Herman is a top 3 PF in the league.

[ElNono]

Can we get this thread back on track? This whole V-Span crap is giving me a headache.

My take on the trade: The problem with this trade is that it closes the window for Dallas, without really giving a solution to the longstanding problem this team always had, no post presence. Avery tried real hard to make Dirk a post guy, but obviously he isn't and he's unwilling to become one. He's a tremendous 7ft guard that can drive and shoot, period. As far as Kidd goes, he peaked about 5 years ago, but since his micro-fracture surgery he has been just a shadow of his former self. And please refrain from mentioning the triple-doubles in the leastern conference. How many of those he had since he came to the west?

So this trade basically made Dallas older, and didn't really solve anything for them.

Again, Dallas problem is in the post, not in the perimeter. And there were a bunch of very good post players available in the last couple of years: KG, Shaq and Gasol come to mind. Cuban simply didn't have the savvy to get any of them.
Heck, I'm sure you could make a good bid for Al Jefferson right now and you know the guy is a premier post player with a great upside.
IMHO, at this point, the only one you can point fingers at is really Cuban.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

At least at some point someone saw enough potential in him to give the guy a chance, and he is still in the league which is more than can be said for V-Span. And you're also not claiming that Herman is a top 3 PF in the league.

You are just same as typical Rocket fan like say most fan have no basketball mind. Spanoulis is great player and it really not matter what stupid coach or fan think. Just like it not matter Manu draft as 57 player in NBA draft.

NBA is so "smart" they think Manu only good enough be 2nd last player be draft.

[ElNono]

You are just same as typical Rocket fan like say most fan have no basketball mind. Spanoulis is great player and it really not matter what stupid coach or fan think. Just like it not matter Manu draft as 57 player in NBA draft.

NBA is so "smart" they think Manu only good enough be 2nd last player be draft.

Could you please take this junk discussion somewhere else? Maybe start another thread?

Thank you.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Can we get this thread back on track? This whole V-Span crap is giving me a headache.

My take on the trade: The problem with this trade is that it closes the window for Dallas, without really giving a solution to the longstanding problem this team always had, no post presence. Avery tried real hard to make Dirk a post guy, but obviously he isn't and he's unwilling to become one. He's a tremendous 7ft guard that can drive and shoot, period. As far as Kidd goes, he peaked about 5 years ago, but since his micro-fracture surgery he has been just a shadow of his former self. And please refrain from mentioning the triple-doubles in the leastern conference. How many of those he had since he came to the west?

So this trade basically made Dallas older, and didn't really solve anything for them.

Again, Dallas problem is in the post, not in the perimeter. And there were a bunch of very good post players available in the last couple of years: KG, Shaq and Gasol come to mind. Cuban simply didn't have the savvy to get any of them.
Heck, I'm sure you could make a good bid for Al Jefferson right now and you know the guy is a premier post player with a great upside.
IMHO, at this point, the only one you can point fingers at is really Cuban.

Dirk is not use right way either by dumb coach.

[mavs>spurs2]

Can we get this thread back on track? This whole V-Span crap is giving me a headache.

My take on the trade: The problem with this trade is that it closes the window for Dallas, without really giving a solution to the longstanding problem this team always had, no post presence. Avery tried real hard to make Dirk a post guy, but obviously he isn't and he's unwilling to become one. He's a tremendous 7ft guard that can drive and shoot, period. As far as Kidd goes, he peaked about 5 years ago, but since his micro-fracture surgery he has been just a shadow of his former self. And please refrain from mentioning the triple-doubles in the leastern conference. How many of those he had since he came to the west?

So this trade basically made Dallas older, and didn't really solve anything for them.

Again, Dallas problem is in the post, not in the perimeter. And there were a bunch of very good post players available in the last couple of years: KG, Shaq and Gasol come to mind. Cuban simply didn't have the savvy to get any of them.
Heck, I'm sure you could make a good bid for Al Jefferson right now and you know the guy is a premier post player with a great upside.
IMHO, at this point, the only one you can point fingers at is really Cuban.

I'd be really happy if the Mavs went after Elton Brand. He could probably be had for much cheaper than Jefferson because of Jefferson's age and upside.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Could you please take this junk discussion somewhere else? Maybe start another thread?

Thank you.

I not start such thing. They say I can have no opinion on any such talks because I believe Spanoulis good player so this mean I can have no opinion on any NBA talks. Problem not me but some others here make such stupid statement.

[monosylab1k]

I'd be really happy if the Mavs went after Elton Brand. He could probably be had for much cheaper than Jefferson because of Jefferson's age and upside.
Supposedly he wants to go to Miami. But if he can be had, Cuban better be offering everything but Dirk to get him.

[ElNono]

I'd be really happy if the Mavs went after Elton Brand. He could probably be had for much cheaper than Jefferson because of Jefferson's age and upside.

That's another good option. I'd like to see what he looks like after coming back from that achilles injury, but all in all, he's a pretty savvy player.

[ludda]

Can we get this thread back on track? This whole V-Span crap is giving me a headache.

My take on the trade: The problem with this trade is that it closes the window for Dallas, without really giving a solution to the longstanding problem this team always had, no post presence. Avery tried real hard to make Dirk a post guy, but obviously he isn't and he's unwilling to become one. He's a tremendous 7ft guard that can drive and shoot, period. As far as Kidd goes, he peaked about 5 years ago, but since his micro-fracture surgery he has been just a shadow of his former self. And please refrain from mentioning the triple-doubles in the leastern conference. How many of those he had since he came to the west?

So this trade basically made Dallas older, and didn't really solve anything for them.

Again, Dallas problem is in the post, not in the perimeter. And there were a bunch of very good post players available in the last couple of years: KG, Shaq and Gasol come to mind. Cuban simply didn't have the savvy to get any of them.
Heck, I'm sure you could make a good bid for Al Jefferson right now and you know the guy is a premier post player with a great upside.
IMHO, at this point, the only one you can point fingers at is really Cuban.

Why is Avery trying to change potential HOF players? Dirk will never be a dominant post guy, it's not b/c he's "unwilling" to it's b/c it's not his game. Kidd will never flourish in an ISO heavy offense where the defense is able to sag off him continually and dare him to shoot. IMO, maybe Avery should change his system to work around his players, instead of trying to mold Dirk into a poor man's Duncan and Kidd into a poor man's Nash.

If The Mavs are smart, they will uproot their roster this offseason, they're not ever going to win with Dampier as their only C and Stackhouse as their starting SG, not to mention Avery as the coach.