Bryan Colangelo... Time to admit...

[Kamnik]

Drafting A. Bargnani with no.1 pick was a MASSIVE FAIL!

Among others (yeah i admit i was WRONG) i also thought he will be an all-star player in a couple of years but he is becoming worse as the time goes by.

-no defense (probably ranks into top 5 worst defenders in the league
-poor rebounding
-little or no passion for the game
-his best attribute.... shooting... 39% this year :toast

He is getting seriously outplayed by 32 year old Rasho Nesterovic. (who is playing great lately btw, props to Rasho!)

Toronto can only dream that they traded him for someone who can rebound and play defense like Emeka Okafor...

[Streakyshooter08]

Yeah. He is a real disappointment. In fact he even plays worse than in his rookie season. He shows his potetial once in a while and he has the tools to become a good NBA player but that is a long shot. The worst thing is his rebounding with 7'0 he averages 3,7 RPG. That is really bad. I read somewhere that Toronto thinks about bringing in a special coach for him to work on his game this summer.

[Kobayagi]

When I heard that Bargnani was the most likely candidate for no.1 pick, I was like "wtf?!? Are they serious?" the way things turned out afterwards doesn't surprise me one bit.

[sendman]

At that time every GM in NBA was trying to find himself a new Dirk. Andrea looked like he could be one, but failed miserably so far. Fact that he has to prove his no. 1 pick selection doesn't help him a bit. That just added more pressure on a young player. On top of that they are trying to make of him something he is not. He wasn't and will never be an NBA center. He is a finesse player and he won't ever be able to bang with best of them. He just doesn't have that aspect of the game in him.
If he was chosen between 10 and 20 in that draft, he would be in much better position. Everybody would like his occasional outbursts of talent and he would be given much more time to develope his game. Now he is just a one big bust.

[MajorMike]

You know, that 2-3 year run after Manu and Tony burst on to the scene made every GM start looking to Euro ball for the next big thing. Biggest problem being most of them didn't have the knowledge and background into Euro and the over-the-top ratings spread like wildfire. Drafting a Euro is all about hits and misses. Most Euros deserve to be drafted late 1st to 2nd if at all. No Euro should be drafted in the top 5. Even Manu and Dirk were not rated high enough or superstar enough for that.

[JMarkJohns]

You know, that 2-3 year run after Manu and Tony burst on to the scene made every GM start looking to Euro ball for the next big thing. Biggest problem being most of them didn't have the knowledge and background into Euro and the over-the-top ratings spread like wildfire. Drafting a Euro is all about hits and misses. Most Euros deserve to be drafted late 1st to 2nd if at all. No Euro should be drafted in the top 5. Even Manu and Dirk were not rated high enough or superstar enough for that.

That's just silly. There's hits and misses from every high school, every college, every country and every continent in the world. Of course some deserve to go top-5. Maybe not as many have been drafted there, but you can say the same thing for the prep-to-pros, the one-n-dones, the two-n-throughs, and any other college player regardless of school, skills or position.

I mean, I agree that most foreign players aren't ready to star right away when they come over here, and thus choosing them higher up in the draft is a big risk, but, again, that can be said for most of the players drafted any given year anymore.

[mystargtr34]

I liked LaMarcus Aldridge all along... i think he would definately improve his rebounding also and his post up game...

I also liked Randy Foye over Brandon Roy but that one didnt really turn out the way i expected...although Foye has been injured,

[ploto]

Andrea's main problem is that he predicates everything on how well he is shooting. If he shoots poorly, then he completely disappears on the court. It impacts his defense and his rebounding, and he will start to sort of roam around aimlessly on offense.

He is actually a pretty good one-on-one defender, but his team defense is pretty poor. His rotations are slow and he gets lost.

Offensively, he does not read defenses well and decides too soon what he is going to do. He needs to slow down and let plays develop.

I think he will be better than he has shown. Rasho always says it takes two years to adjust from Europe to the NBA, so I will wait for next year to decide.

Andrea's situation was different than a lot of #1 picks because he went to a team trying to win now while deveolping him at the same time. I understood why they gave him time and minutes, but it is getting close to play-off time and the Raptors want as best of seed as possible and some chance to make it to the second round. If he can come in off the bench and hit a few shots, that will be his main contribution for the playoffs this year.

[urunobili]

what were Dirk's stats on his second year?

[JMarkJohns]

I thought Roy was the most ready and that Aldridge had the most potential. I thought each were the only two with actual All-Star likelihood.

[MajorMike]

That's just silly. There's hits and misses from every high school, every college, every country and every continent in the world. Of course some deserve to go top-5. Maybe not as many have been drafted there, but you can say the same thing for the prep-to-pros, the one-n-dones, the two-n-throughs, and any other college player regardless of school, skills or position.

I mean, I agree that most foreign players aren't ready to star right away when they come over here, and thus choosing them higher up in the draft is a big risk, but, again, that can be said for most of the players drafted any given year anymore.


In today's game, your lotto picks are expected to perform NOW. The Euro's have not. Everyone has hits and misses yes, but the HS or college kids from the US have been bringing it while the Top 5s from Euro haven't as of late. Plain and simple.

Recent top 2 Euros:
2006 #1 Bargnani
2006 #10 Saer Sene - averaging 5 mins in mop up time
2005 #11 Fran Vazquez - not in NBA
2005 #12 Yaroslav Korolev - not in NBA
2004 #11 Andris Biedrins
2004 #21 Pavel Podkolzine - not in NBA
2003 #2 Darko Milicic
2003 #11 Mickaël Pietrus

Looks like GS is the only one to make 'em players.

Now if you were to look at that vs the Top 2 US players in the draft:
2006: Aldrigde and Morrison
2005: Bogut and Williams
2004: Howard and Okafor
2003: Bron and Melo

Euro players can be highly over valued in the draft. Its not silly, its just fact. Does everyone have busts? Sure they do. I am simply showing that there are a far more percentage of Euro lottery picks that are busts than US players. I don't think they are better or worse, I just they the Euro evaluation system is poor.

[nkdlunch]

does not beat kwame or darko picks

[JamStone]

Was a fail on some levels. Remember also that Colangelo was taking the international approach also because of the demographics and spirit of the City of Toronto. American NBA players were going to be harder to keep in Toronto once they became free agents. And, with a very Euro/International feel to Toronto, Bargnani was selected not purely based on talent and potential but also for community and marketing reasons.

As for how much of a failure he's been, he actually had better numbers as a rookie than Dirk did. Problem is he's still adjusting this season to not only life away from Europe but with the NBA game. Maybe he'll be a bust like Darko or Tskitishvili, but it's probably a little too early to say either way.

That 2006 draft in retrospect was a pretty bad draft in terms of talent, and several teams made seemingly poor decisions in the lottery, not just Toronto.

Brandon Roy was #6 and Rudy Gay was selected #8, and they were probably the two best prospects of the entire draft. Michael Jordan passed on both at #3 and took Adam Morrison. Atlanta took Shelden Williams with #5. Chicago passed on both and even traded LaMarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas.

That draft in general was "fail."

[ElNono]

I always thought Colangelo was overrated. He got praised for putting together the Suns run and gun team, but that team couldn't win a championship. Then he was in charge of team USA after the olympic fiasco only to make another one in the World Championships.
As far as Toronto is concerned, they only go as far as Chris Bosh takes them. It was like that before he got there, and it's still like that.

[JamStone]

I always thought Colangelo was overrated. He got praised for putting together the Suns run and gun team, but that team couldn't win a championship. Then he was in charge of team USA after the olympic fiasco only to make another one in the World Championships.
As far as Toronto is concerned, they only go as far as Chris Bosh takes them. It was like that before he got there, and it's still like that.

I'm pretty sure it was Bryan Colangelo's father who was in charge of team USA, not him.

[ElNono]

I'm pretty sure it was Bryan Colangelo's father who was in charge of team USA, not him.

You are right sir. Got them mixed up.

[ata]

what were Dirk's stats on his second year?
2nd year
Dirk: 17.5 ppg, 46.1 fg%, 6.5 rpg, 35.6 min
AB: 10.5 ppg, 39.0 fg%, 3.7 rpg, 24.6

Bargnani numbers are actualy lower than in his rookie season! So much about progress. He is inconsistent and that is major problem.

[BobcatsDynasty]

Michael Jordan passed on both at #3 and took Adam Morrison.
That was no mistake. Adam Morrison was victim of a fluke injury this year, but when he comes back he's going to quickly become one of the best players in the league.

Brandon Roy is the biggest fluke in the NBA, Morrison will be the only Hall Of Fame player from that draft. Charlotte will win multiple championships with him.

[tlongII]

I thought Roy was the most ready and that Aldridge had the most potential. I thought each were the only two with actual All-Star likelihood.

And we got them both! :smokin

[gmanrulz]

Now if you were to look at that vs the Top 2 US players in the draft:
2006: Aldrigde and Morrison
2005: Bogut and Williams
2004: Howard and Okafor
2003: Bron and Melo

2005 was a bad year

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

This player have not even prove himself in Europe or with national team and he get draft #1? Still this is very young player and he do have very good ability.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

You know, that 2-3 year run after Manu and Tony burst on to the scene made every GM start looking to Euro ball for the next big thing. Biggest problem being most of them didn't have the knowledge and background into Euro and the over-the-top ratings spread like wildfire. Drafting a Euro is all about hits and misses. Most Euros deserve to be drafted late 1st to 2nd if at all. No Euro should be drafted in the top 5. Even Manu and Dirk were not rated high enough or superstar enough for that.

Bargnani is at most average player at national team level in some level like European Championship. He is 7 feet player with talent and is natural he can be consider as top prospect by NBA but this no different than many American 7 footer that have ability and get high draft selection.

Look how many of these American 7 footer are bust player.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

In today's game, your lotto picks are expected to perform NOW. The Euro's have not. Everyone has hits and misses yes, but the HS or college kids from the US have been bringing it while the Top 5s from Euro haven't as of late. Plain and simple.

Recent top 2 Euros:
2006 #1 Bargnani
2006 #10 Saer Sene - averaging 5 mins in mop up time
2005 #11 Fran Vazquez - not in NBA
2005 #12 Yaroslav Korolev - not in NBA
2004 #11 Andris Biedrins
2004 #21 Pavel Podkolzine - not in NBA
2003 #2 Darko Milicic
2003 #11 Mickaël Pietrus

Looks like GS is the only one to make 'em players.

Now if you were to look at that vs the Top 2 US players in the draft:
2006: Aldrigde and Morrison
2005: Bogut and Williams
2004: Howard and Okafor
2003: Bron and Melo

Euro players can be highly over valued in the draft. Its not silly, its just fact. Does everyone have busts? Sure they do. I am simply showing that there are a far more percentage of Euro lottery picks that are busts than US players. I don't think they are better or worse, I just they the Euro evaluation system is poor.

:blah :blah

Like I say here on board many time American NBA managers do not know European basketball for craps. These players list here other than Biedrins are not even good players in Europe level. What make NBA gm think they need be high draft pick in NBA? NBA have some very strange idea what make good Euro player.

[Kobayagi]

Now if you were to look at that vs the Top 2 US players in the draft:

2005: Bogut and Williams



Bogut is not american.

[dallaskd]

I got ripped when i created a thread saying this

[dallaskd]

i thought bogut is from austrailia? right?

[Kobayagi]

He's aussie, yes.