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rasho8
03-28-2008, 12:59 PM
It's an international game these days, as everyone keeps reminding us, and a look at the past few MVP winners in the NBA only reinforces that point. Would you believe that in the past six seasons, only one MVP was born in the 50 United States?

This year will make it two out of seven -- all the leading contenders are American -- but it underscores the point that this has been the decade of the internationals in pro basketball.

And with that in mind, it's time to revisit last year's list of the top 30 international players.

Before we get to the rankings, let's revisit the ground rules. We're looking at players born outside of the 50 U.S. states, which means the likes of Tim Duncan (U.S. Virgin Islands) and Carlos Arroyo (Puerto Rico) count -- if you want to get into a semantic debate about their American-ness, take it up with the NBA, which lists both players as internationals.

Second, we've listed each player with his country of birth -- last year it jolted some folks to see the South African flag next to Steve Nash's name, but he was actually born in Johannesburg.

Finally, there's the most vexing part of the debate -- what we mean when we say Player X is "better" than Player Y. To make this list, my golden rule was choosing which player I would want most if I could only have them for the next six months. But I'll get into the nitty-gritty of player vs. player comparisons as we get into the list.

Now, onto the list:


1. Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs

Age: 31 | Profile
Birth Date: 04/25/76
Born: St. Croix, Virgin Islands

Position: Power Forward
NBA experience: 11 years
2007-08 PER: 24.75

A year ago, Dirk Nowitzki was on top of this list. At the time, it made sense. He was on the team that won 67 games, had the league's top PER, he defeated Duncan in their last playoff meeting and was about to win the MVP award.

Since then, however, Duncan has regained the upper hand. He won a fourth championship ring, while Dirk went belly-up in the first round, and Duncan's ability to impact the game at the defensive end more than offsets Dirk's offensive advantages.

It's a closer race than you might think based solely on reputations. Although Duncan's career accomplishments dwarf Dirk's, recent history tells a different story. Dirk has a superior player efficiency rating for the third straight season -- and in two of the three seasons his advantage was quite large. But if forced to pick one for the stretch run, you'd have to take the Big Fundamental.

2. Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas Mavericks

Age: 29 | Profile
Birth Date: 06/19/78
Born: Wurzburg, West Germany

Position: Power Forward
NBA experience: 10 years
2007-08 PER: 24.86

Unfortunately for Nowitzki, he was just hitting his stride before suffering a high ankle sprain and a knee sprain Sunday. He has averaged 26.2 points on 50.9 percent shooting since the All-Star break and seemingly had the Mavs on course for a top-six seed in the West. Now they might be lottery-bound, which would be a huge step backward for a team that was five minutes away from a 3-0 lead against the Heat in the 2006 Finals. Who would have thought both of those teams might be in Secaucus this May?

Nowitzki may not quite measure up to Duncan these days, but he's still the obvious choice at No. 2. The sweet-shooting German has ranked second, first and fourth in PER the past three seasons, with this year's fourth being an "off" year.


3. Steve Nash, Phoenix Suns

Age: 34 | Profile
Birth Date: 02/07/74
Born: Johannesburg, South Africa

Position: Point Guard
NBA experience: 12 years
2007-08 PER: 21.59

Nash is getting up in years at age 34, and his output this season has dropped off from the past three seasons ... a bit. But fortunately for the Suns, he's also something of a freak. In particular, the attention on his passing sleight of hand causes many to overlook what an unbelievable shooter he has become. Nash is shooting 51.8 percent from the field, 48.2 percent on 3s and 90.4 percent from the charity stripe, putting him on pace for his second 50-40-90 campaign in three years. He missed the mark last season ... by one foul shot.

If Nash closes the season strong, he could end up in even more exalted territory -- the first player in history to join the 50-50-90 club. To do so, based on his current average of five 3-point attempts a game, he'd need to hit 60 percent from downtown (33-of-55) over the Suns' final 11 games.


4. Manu Ginobili, San Antonio Spurs

Age: 30 | Profile
Birth Date: 07/28/77
Born: Bahia Blanca, Argentina

Position: Shooting guard
NBA experience: 6 years
2007-08 PER: 24.75

For much of this season Ginobili has had the top PER of any international player, and he's on pace for his second straight top-10 overall finish in PER. Strangely, fans, coaches and media have been slow to perceive him as a star, with his indefensible exclusion from the All-Star team this year being the most glaring example.

However, we can't put him ahead of Nash -- even though he's out-PERed him and is a better defender -- because Ginobili only plays 31 minutes a game. Although I've argued repeatedly that most players have similar per-minute output regardless of how much or how little they play, I'm uncomfortable giving Ginobili the benefit of the doubt in this case. Limiting his minutes seems part of a conscious strategy by the Spurs to limit the wear and tear caused by his reckless playing style, and one has to wonder if he'd break down with a heavier workload.


5. Yao Ming, Houston Rockets

Age: 27 | Profile
Birth Date: 09/12/80
Born: Shanghai, China

Position: Center
NBA experience: 6 years
2007-08 PER: 22.65

The No. 4 player on this list a year ago, Yao would still rank third if we were going on ability to impact a single game. The problem is that there are too many other games in which he has no impact at all, because he's on the sideline in a cast. Yao has played 57, 48 and 55 games the past three seasons, so despite the fact that his weighted PER is better than Nash's or Ginobili's during that period, it's impossible to rank Yao ahead of those two.

It doesn't help his rep that the Rockets have again succeeded in his absence, much as they did last season. Partly that's a credit to Houston's depth, but it also serves as a reminder that Yao can be as much of a matchup problem on defense as he is on offense.


6. Pau Gasol, Memphis Grizzlies

Age: 27 | Profile
Birth Date: 07/06/80
Born: Barcelona, Spain

Position: Center
NBA experience: 7 years
2007-08 PER: 21.47

One of the league's most consistently underrated players while toiling for the Memphis Grizzlies, Gasol is now in the limelight thanks to his recent trade to the L.A. Lakers. As with Yao, he has had injury problems, missing 26, 2, 23 and 16 (and counting) games the past four seasons.

But he's shown the ability to carry teams by himself, both in the NBA (leading a fairly benign Memphis team to a 50-win season) and at the international level (carrying Spain to the world championship in 2007). Additionally, his six straight seasons with a 20-plus PER speaks to his consistency. If he were a more capable defender, he'd rank ahead of Yao and Manu.


7. Tony Parker, San Antonio Spurs

Age: 25 | Profile
Birth Date: 05/17/82
Born: Bruges, Belgium

Position: Point guard
NBA experience: 7 years
2007-08 PER: 19.19

He seemed poised to move much further up this list after a breakthrough NBA Finals in which he shocked observers by repeatedly nailing long jump shots -- his greatest weakness throughout his career. But Parker has been beset by heel problems this season, knocking him out of 13 games, and his shooting percentage his dipped from the scalding 54.8 percent and 52.0 percent the previous two seasons to a more human 48.6 percent. That still makes him a heck of a player, but it makes it hard for him to move any further up this list.
8. Jose Calderon, Toronto Raptors

Age: 26 | Profile
Birth Date: 09/28/81
Born: Villanueva de la Serena, Spain

Position: Point guard
NBA experience: 3 years
2007-08 PER: 21.32

The ridiculously efficient Raptor isn't thought of in star terms by most league observers, but his ability to create positive plays with virtually no negative ones is a vastly underrated asset. Calderon's true shooting mark of 62.2 is second only to Steve Nash, and he's first among all point guards in the percentage of possessions he uses that result in an assist.

Best of all, he has one of the lowest turnover ratios at his position, resulting in five dimes for every miscue. All of which makes Calderon an incredibly effective offensive player even though he doesn't take a lot of shots.


9. Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cleveland Cavaliers

Age: 32 | Profile
Birth Date: 06/05/75
Born: Kaunas, Lithuania

Position: Center
NBA experience: 10 years
2007-08 PER: 18.91

He's missed some games with back problems this season, but prior to that he was the league's most bankable big man for the past half decade, playing in at least 78 games for five straight seasons. And, when he's played this season, his numbers have remained stellar -- 18.1 points and 12.5 boards per 40 minutes -- providing LeBron James with his only real consistent source of offensive support.


10. Luol Deng, Chicago Bulls

Age: 22 | Profile
Birth Date: 04/16/85
Born: Wow, Sudan

Position: Forward
NBA experience: 4 years
2007-08 PER: 16.98

He would have ranked higher before the season, but, like many of the Bulls, his 2007-08 season has been a disappointment. Deng's inability to diversify his offensive game beyond taking two dribbles and shooting a contested midrange J has brought his improvement to a halt -- his per-minute scoring average hasn't increased this season while his shooting percentage has endured a 5 percent drop..

Deng is only 22 and still has as bright a future as any player on this list. But if you're drafting a team to win a game tomorrow there are a few other guys you'd rather have.


11. Hedo Turkoglu, Orlando Magic

Age: 29 | Profile
Birth Date: 03/19/79
Born: Istanbul, Turkey

Position: Guard-Forward
NBA experience: 8 years
2007-08 PER: 17.84

A popular choice for the Most Improved Player award thanks to his role in turning the Magic into Southeast Division champs, Turkoglu has added more than six points to his per-game scoring average while improving his field goal, 3-point and free-throw percentages. He's done this while becoming something of a de facto point guard for Orlando, as the 6-10 forward might be the team's best distributor. He'd rank higher if he had another season or two like this under his belt. Until he does, the more proven output of Deng and Ilgauskas trumps his.


12. Andrei Kirilenko, Utah Jazz

Age: 27 | Profile
Birth Date: 02/18/81
Born: Moscow, USSR

Position: Forward
NBA experience: 7 years
2007-08 PER:17.28

He's clearly not the player he was three years ago, but he's still pretty darn effective. Kirilenko's been more involved in the offense this season and shot the jumper much better, improving his numbers from last season's shockingly subpar levels. Subjectively, one also gets the sneaking feeling that if he were traded to another team that used him as a running 4 rather than a 3 on a power team, his numbers might revert to their 2004-05 levels.


13. Andris Biedrins, Golden State

Age: 21 | Profile
Birth Date: 04/02/86
Born: Riga, Latvia

Position: Center
NBA experience: 4 years
2007-08 PER: 18.13

One of the best percentage shooters in league history, Biedrins' 62.1 mark from the field this season is his fourth straight season above 57 percent from the floor. The Latvian lefty has also become an elite rebounder, pulling down 13.6 boards per 40 minutes, and at just 21 years of age still has plenty of upside to explore. He'd probably be more recognized for his skills if his coach didn't hate centers -- somehow, Biedrins only plays 26.7 minutes per game, and he has come off the pine 15 times even though Golden State has no other credible size.


14. Leandro Barbosa, Phoenix Suns

Age: 25 | Profile
Birth Date: 11/28/82
Born: Sao Paulo, Brazil

Position: Guard
NBA experience: 5 years
2007-08 PER: 16.27

The Brazilian Blur has tailed off slightly from his pace of a season ago, which is odd because the Suns stopped using him as a backup point guard and that was supposed to allow him to thrive in a pure scoring role. Instead his 3-point mark has dipped to 38.6 percent after being at 43.4 percent and 44.4 percent the previous two seasons, and he's actually taking fewer shots than last season.


15. Mehmet Okur, Utah Jazz

Age: 28 | Profile
Birth Date: 05/26/79
Born: Yalova, Turkey

Position: Center
NBA experience: 6 years
2007-08 PER: 14.35

A tough player to rank because he's plainly having an off year. Obviously this ranking presumes that it's a one-year blip and not a new level of ability for Okur, which seems reasonable given that he had four strong statistical seasons before this one and that he's only 28. Even given his struggles this season, I would think most folks would take him over Andrew Bogut or Samuel Dalembert in a one-game situation.


16. Andrew Bogut, Milwaukee Bucks

Age: 23 | Profile
Birth Date: 11/28/84
Born: Melbourne, Australia

Position: Forward-Center
NBA experience: 3 years
2007-08 PER: 17.34


He may not ever live up to his first-overall selection, but Bogut has put together a solid season despite the general malaise in Milwaukee. He has become more effective scoring in the post and is great at taking charges, partly making up for his inability to block shots. Plus, he's a brilliant passer. If the Bucks ever got a clue, his talents might be much more appreciated.


17. Ben Gordon, Chicago Bulls

Age: 25 | Profile
Birth Date: 04/04/83
Born: London, England

Position: Guard
NBA experience: 4 years
2007-08 PER: 16.38

Like Deng, Gordon fell a few notches thanks to a rough 2007-08 campaign. Though he's still a tremendous shooter who is over 40 percent on 3s for a fourth straight season, Gordon isn't shooting as often or as effectively as last season -- which is bad news if you're a one-dimensional scoring specialist.


18. Samuel Dalembert, Philadelphia 76ers

Age: 26 | Profile
Birth Date: 05/10/81
Born: Port-Au-Prince, Haiti

Position: Center
NBA experience: 6 years
2007-08 PER: 15.73

The Sixers' center could arguably rank higher thanks to his role in Philly's resurgence. Born in Haiti but now owning a Canadian passport, Dalembert has become one of the league's top rebounders and shot-blockers despite a thin frame, and he does enough offensively to keep defenses honest -- this will be his fifth straight season shooting better than 50 percent from the floor.


19. Peja Stojakovic, New Orleans Hornets

Age: 30 | Profile
Birth Date: 06/07/77
Born: Belgrade, Serbia

Position: Forward
NBA experience: 10 years
2007-08 PER: 15.87

After missing nearly all of last season with back trouble, Peja has come back to provide the Hornets with the long-range bomber they've needed. He has taken half his shots from beyond the arc and nailed 46.0 percent, punishing defenses that sag to stop Chris Paul's penetration. You probably don't want an illegal defense call with him on the floor either -- Peja is at 93.8 percent from the line, marking the third time in his past four full seasons that he has hit 92 percent or better from the stripe.


20. Luis Scola, Houston Rockets

Age: 27 | Profile
Birth Date: 04/30/80
Born: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Position: Forward
NBA experience: 4 years
2007-08 PER: 15.50

Houston's rookie forward is making a belated charge for rookie of the year; his craftiness around the basket was a key in the Rockets' shocking 22-game win streak. While Scola's ROY campaign is likely to fall short, the Argentine import has shown why he has been such a successful international player the past several years. His arrival filled the Rockets' biggest weakness at the 4 spot, one reason they've survived Yao Ming's absence so well.


21. Andres Nocioni, Chicago Bulls

Age: 28 | Profile
Birth Date: 11/30/79
Born: Santa Fe, Argentina

Position: Forward
NBA experience: 4 years
2007-08 PER: 13.72

You're not going to believe this, but here's a guy on the Bulls who ranks lower on this list than he did a year ago. In Nocioni's case, he needs to tone down the hyperactivity just a bit -- his shot selection has really gone off the deep end this season, resulting in a dip to 4 percent from the floor. He's 28 and had two strong seasons before this one, so Chicago fans are hoping this is just a blip.


22. Al Horford, Atlanta Hawks

Age: 21 | Profile
Birth Date: 06/03/86
Born: Puerto Plata, Dominican Republic

Position: Forward-Center
NBA experience: 1 year
2007-08 PER: 14.26

A natural power forward forced into action at center by the Hawks' lack of size, Horford has solidified the middle and put the Hawks in position to end the league's longest playoff drought. As with Scola, he's earning some rookie of the year attention that ultimately will prove fruitless, but he's nearly averaging a double-double (9.7 points, 9.7 boards) and few big men handle the ball better.


23. Anderson Varejao, Cleveland Cavaliers

Age: 25 | Profile
Birth Date: 09/28/82
Born: Santa Teresa, Brazil

Position: Forward-Center
NBA experience: 6 years
2007-08 PER: 11.95

He missed the start of the season in a contract squabble with the Cavs, and he hasn't quite been himself since returning. At his best, Varejao is a high-energy rebounder and defensive hustler who takes charges by the bushel, but he's only played 38 games and been markedly less effective offensively.


24. Nene, Denver Nuggets

Age: 25 | Profile
Birth Date: 09/13/82
Born: Sao Carlos, Brazil

Position: Forward-Center
NBA experience: 6 years
2007-08 PER: 11.08

Although he's missed nearly the entire season due to a torn thumb ligament and his more recent cancer treatment, Nene merits inclusion based on a strong 2006-07 season and the perception that he can return to his previous form next season.


25. Ronny Turiaf, Los Angeles Lakers

Age: 25 | Profile
Birth Date: 01/13/83
Born: Le Robert, France

Position: Center
NBA experience: 3 years
2007-08 PER: 15.34

The energetic Frenchman is one of the league's most underrated big men, with a penchant for shot-blocking and a nose for scoring around the basket. What keeps him down here on the list is his equally strong penchant for fouling, which is the drawback to all that energy he plays with -- he averages a personal every 7.5 minutes.


26. Raja Bell, Phoenix Suns

Age: 31 | Profile
Birth Date: 09/19/76
Born: St. Croix, Virgin Islands

Position: Shooting Guard
NBA experience: 8 years
2007-08 PER: 10.25

One of the league's feistiest defenders, the Virgin Islands' "other" NBA player has been mired in a shooting slump for much of the season. He's at 41.6 percent from the floor, resulting in his lowest PER since becoming an NBA regular. Nonetheless, any list of the league's top internationals has to include Bell based on defense alone.


27. Francisco Garcia, Sacramento Kings

Age: 26 | Profile
Birth Date: 12/31/81
Born: Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

Position: Forward
NBA experience: 3 years
2007-08 PER: 14.25

The Dominican guard has emerged as a force off the bench for Sacramento in his third pro season, offering a Tayshaun Prince-lite assortment of defense, ballhandling and outside shooting. He's at 39.0 percent on 3s and averaging double figures for the first time in his career; should Ron Artest depart as a free agent, he'll have a chance to boost those numbers further next season.


28. Wally Szczerbiak, Cleveland Cavaliers

Age: 31 | Profile
Birth Date: 3/5/77
Born: Madrid, Spain

Position: Forward
NBA experience: 9 years
2007-08 PER: 14.45

He calls Long Island home, but Wally World was born in Madrid, where pop was playing professionally in Spain. Yes, that's a little chintzy, but those are the rules we're using. Szczerbiak was quietly having a very good shooting year with the Sonics, but he has cooled off since being traded to Cleveland -- he's only hitting 36.3 percent of his shots since the All-Star break. Given how well he's stroked it the rest of his career, one presumes he'll start knocking down more shots soon for the Cavs.


29. Rasho Nesterovic, Toronto Raptors

Age: 31 | Profile
Birth Date: 5/30/76
Born: Ljubljana, Slovenia

Position: Center
NBA experience: 10 years
2007-08 PER: 15.11

You might think of Rasho as just another generic big guy, but he's quietly put together two very solid seasons in Toronto. In fact, the Raptors probably acted about 70 games too late when they put Nesterovic into the starting lineup ahead of Andrea Bargnani Thursday night; Rasho has badly outplayed him this season.


30. Carlos Delfino, Toronto Raptors

Age: 25 | Profile
Birth Date: 8/29/82
Born: Santa Fe, Argentina

Position: Shooting Guard
NBA experience: 4 years
2007-08 PER: 13.84

The last of the sizable Argentine contingent on this list, Delfino nosed out Sasha Vujacic, Kelenna Azubuike, Beno Udrih, Linas Kleiza, Boris Diaw, Fabricio Oberto and Nenad Krstic for the final spot in the top 30. Though he's only hitting 39.6 percent from the floor, his true shooting percentage is actually decent because he hits 48.5 percent on 3s and takes nearly half his shots from out there. Additionally, he's a quality defender and ball handler -- a rarity once you get this far down the list.





John Hollinger writes for ESPN Insider. To e-mail him, click here.

DAF86
03-28-2008, 01:06 PM
great list...
we need to sign delfino next year

Galileo
03-28-2008, 01:27 PM
lots of former Spurs on the list.

objective
03-28-2008, 01:50 PM
Scola higher then Nocioni . . . reasonable.

hater
03-28-2008, 02:00 PM
Scola!

Mark in Austin
03-28-2008, 02:45 PM
great list...
we need to sign delfino next year

based on the admittedly limited info I have on him, Delfino is a prima donna - if RC didn't like Scola giving him attitude, no way he signs the less talented but bigger pain in the ass Delfino.

DAF86
03-28-2008, 02:53 PM
based on the admittedly limited info I have on him, Delfino is a prima donna - if RC didn't like Scola giving him attitude, no way he signs the less talented but bigger pain in the ass Delfino.

neither of the argentinian players is a prima donna.
you're saying the same 'bout scola and look at him. there's nobody on the rockets squad that plays harder than him. where do you get these stuff? :wtf

vanvannen
03-28-2008, 02:59 PM
Unlike Scola, Delfino does have attitude issues.

DAF86
03-28-2008, 03:02 PM
Unlike Scola, Delfino does have attitude issues.

maybe i'm missing something. did you hear something that i didn't?

diego
03-28-2008, 03:23 PM
i'm argie and i agree, delfino would probably crack under pop.

and i'm disappointed oberto wasnt listed, he's better than turiaf/sczerbiak/rasho/delfino, age aside (havent seen enough of francisco garcia).

also, i'd take bogut over biedrins.

timvp
03-28-2008, 04:25 PM
Am I the only one who thinks these international rankings are amazingly lame? There are so many international players these days I don't get the point of separating them out and ranking them. International players in the NBA isn't really a story anymore.

These rankings are just about as interesting if Hollinger listed the top ten black players in the NBA or the top ten white players. If you are going to rank players these days, do it by position or age ... not something irrelevant such as place of birth.

JK2
03-28-2008, 04:36 PM
talk about American ignorance...

Before we get to the rankings, let's revisit the ground rules. We're looking at players born outside of the 50 U.S. states, which means the likes of Tim Duncan (U.S. Virgin Islands) and Carlos Arroyo (Puerto Rico) count -- if you want to get into a semantic debate about their American-ness, take it up with the NBA, which lists both players as internationals.
What do Duncan and Arroyo have in common? Duncan is American (US Virgin Islands) and Arroyo is Puerto Rican. Why should you debate the American-ness of a Puerto Rican? How can you regard an American like Tim Duncan as an international then?




2. Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas Mavericks

Age: 29 | Profile
Birth Date: 06/19/78
Born: Wurzburg, West Germany

West Germany is not a country. It was a country in 1978 though.


9. Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cleveland Cavaliers

Age: 32 | Profile
Birth Date: 06/05/75
Born: Kaunas, Lithuania

Lithuania is a country, but wasn't when Z was born.



12. Andrei Kirilenko, Utah Jazz

Age: 27 | Profile
Birth Date: 02/18/81
Born: Moscow, USSR

The USSR is not a country. If you say Kirilenko was born in the USSR then Ilgauskas was born there as well. And why do you have a Russian flag then, Mr. Hollinger?



13. Andris Biedrins, Golden State

Age: 21 | Profile
Birth Date: 04/02/86
Born: Riga, Latvia

Latvia wasn't a country in 1986.



19. Peja Stojakovic, New Orleans Hornets

Age: 30 | Profile
Birth Date: 06/07/77
Born: Belgrade, Serbia

Serbia wasn't a country either. In addition Hollinger used the wrong flag (Serbia and Montenegro).



25. Ronny Turiaf, Los Angeles Lakers

Age: 25 | Profile
Birth Date: 01/13/83
Born: Le Robert, France

Turiaf is French, but why does Hollinger make Martinique a part of France while US Virgin Islands is considered non-American?



[I]29. Rasho Nesterovic, Toronto Raptors

Age: 31 | Profile
Birth Date: 5/30/76
Born: Ljubljana, Slovenia

Slovenia wasn't a country in 1976.

Marhq
03-28-2008, 04:39 PM
Unlike Scola, Delfino does have attitude issues.
Exactly. Scola is a humble, hard working, team-first player whereas Delfino has had issues both in Detroit and with the national team.

Saludos.

cheguevara
03-28-2008, 04:41 PM
Am I the only one who thinks these international rankings are amazingly lame? There are so many international players these days I don't get the point of separating them out and ranking them. International players in the NBA isn't really a story anymore.

These rankings are just about as interesting if Hollinger listed the top ten black players in the NBA or the top ten white players. If you are going to rank players these days, do it by position or age ... not something irrelevant such as place of birth.

I completely disagree. This is to show the talent coming into nba from international. wow!

great writeup :clap

they should do this every year to see how this change

DAF86
03-28-2008, 04:45 PM
Exactly. Scola is a humble, hard working, team-first player whereas Delfino has had issues both in Detroit and with the national team.

Saludos.

when? i want facts

Kobayagi
03-28-2008, 04:47 PM
I'd definitely be more interested in top 10 white players list.

temujin
03-28-2008, 05:04 PM
talk about American ignorance...

What do Duncan and Arroyo have in common? Duncan is American (US Virgin Islands) and Arroyo is Puerto Rican. Why should you debate the American-ness of a Puerto Rican? How can you regard an American like Tim Duncan as an international then?



West Germany is not a country. It was a country in 1978 though.


Lithuania is a country, but wasn't when Z was born.


The USSR is not a country. If you say Kirilenko was born in the USSR then Ilgauskas was born there as well. And why do you have a Russian flag then, Mr. Hollinger?


Latvia wasn't a country in 1986.


Serbia wasn't a country either. In addition Hollinger used the wrong flag (Serbia and Montenegro).


Turiaf is French, but why does Hollinger make Martinique a part of France while US Virgin Islands is considered non-American?


Slovenia wasn't a country in 1976.


The documents of Kirilenko Biedrins Stojakovic and so on are issued by Russia Latvia and Serbia and so on.
Turiaf is voting to elect the french president.
Duncan is not voting to elect the american president.

temujin
03-28-2008, 05:06 PM
Gasol ahead of Calderon is ridiculous.
This guy has never watched them.
He just reads statistics.

JK2
03-28-2008, 05:14 PM
Duncan is not voting to elect the american president.
that's not the point. US Virgin Islands belongs to the US, Duncan is an American citizen and he plays for the US national team. I'd say he is pretty much a national (American) player. Hollinger makes him international in order to have some Americans on the list of international players which is ridiculous.

thekingrobert
03-28-2008, 05:19 PM
Scola has 4 years NBA experience? WOW

SlovenianGuy
03-28-2008, 06:30 PM
that's not the point. US Virgin Islands belongs to the US, Duncan is an American citizen and he plays for the US national team. I'd say he is pretty much a national (American) player. Hollinger makes him internation in order to have some Americans on the list of international players which is ridiculous.

WALLY SZCZERBIAK for example :madrun

remingtonbo2001
03-28-2008, 06:34 PM
Meh.

kuato
03-28-2008, 06:38 PM
i'm argie and i agree, delfino would probably crack under pop. I dont think so, "El lancha" could be contained by Manu.

WalterBenitez
03-28-2008, 07:47 PM
Scola!

Do not repeat, plz :music

WalterBenitez
03-28-2008, 07:49 PM
I see that international and foreigners are a relative concepts!

smeagol
03-28-2008, 08:40 PM
Please stop with the Timmy is an international player crap

jag
03-28-2008, 10:43 PM
Am I the only one who thinks these international rankings are amazingly lame? There are so many international players these days I don't get the point of separating them out and ranking them. International players in the NBA isn't really a story anymore.

These rankings are just about as interesting if Hollinger listed the top ten black players in the NBA or the top ten white players. If you are going to rank players these days, do it by position or age ... not something irrelevant such as place of birth.

The list is wack, but not for any of the reasons you listed...

I judged this list based solely upon the lack of Beno.

Manu'sMagicalLeftHand
03-29-2008, 03:54 AM
adding to JK2's post...


28. Wally Szczerbiak, Cleveland Cavaliers

Born: Madrid, Spain




:lol


3. Steve Nash, Phoenix Suns
Born: Johannesburg, South Africa



Damn, Birthplace doesn't equal nationality.

kace
03-29-2008, 05:09 AM
Same for TP. He's french. Point. who care where he was born (belgium).

WalterBenitez
03-29-2008, 06:44 AM
Same for TP. He's french. Point. who care where he was born (belgium).

belgium ppl

temujin
03-30-2008, 11:42 AM
that's not the point. US Virgin Islands belongs to the US, Duncan is an American citizen and he plays for the US national team. I'd say he is pretty much a national (American) player. Hollinger makes him international in order to have some Americans on the list of international players which is ridiculous.

Turiaf is a FULL french citizen, as Matinique is a french territory, and he enjoys ALL rights of ALL french citizens, whether of metropolitan France or overseas.

Duncan has an american passport, but he DOES NOT enjoys the right to vote for the top representative of "his" nation.
That can't be argued.

Coming to the point, Duncan is no doubt an american player, unlike Arroyo for example, who was happy enough to play for his Puerto Rico national Team.

Spurs Dynasty 21
03-30-2008, 11:44 AM
I would love to see Delfino on the Spurs

tp2021
03-30-2008, 11:48 AM
29. Rasho Nesterovic, Toronto Raptors

Age: 31 | Profile
Birth Date: 5/30/76
Born: Ljubljana, Slovenia

Position: Center
NBA experience: 10 years
2007-08 PER: 15.11

You might think of Rasho as just another generic big guy, but he's quietly put together two very solid seasons in Toronto. In fact, the Raptors probably acted about 70 games too late when they put Nesterovic into the starting lineup ahead of Andrea Bargnani Thursday night; Rasho has badly outplayed him this season.

yay rasho! i miss the big lug...

ALVAREZ6
03-30-2008, 03:20 PM
Samuel Dalembert should not even touch that list. He's aweful.

JK2
04-30-2008, 01:20 PM
where's Carlos Boozer on that list by the way? According to Hollinger's ridiculous rules he's international as well.