can anybody tell me why

[stretch]

Avery only played Damp for a measly 12 minutes? Does he realized it led to us getting outrebounded by fucking Golden State? Not to mention he had a +/- rating of +10 when in the game (although a lot of that was attributed to the hot start they had, but still). There is no reason we should have gotten outrebounded by those guys.

[m33p0]

Avery still likes for Dallas to play into the hands of their opponent... case in point, playing small ball against a small ball team.

in other words, he never learned his lesson.

[Findog]

I think I counted about three times where Baron Davis got an offensive rebound while surrounded by 4 blue shirts.

[ElNono]

The thing is, all of this is going to get swept under the same 'We are missing Dirk' rug.
This is something I pointed out when Dirk got injured. Nobody will remember that Dallas was sucking big time since the trade, way before Dirk's injury.

[stretch]

I think I counted about three times where Baron Davis got an offensive rebound while surrounded by 4 blue shirts.
Yea, there was one in particular i saw in the second quarter where he got a rebound and a putback, and no one bothered to do crap.

[stretch]

The thing is, all of this is going to get swept under the same 'We are missing Dirk' rug.
This is something I pointed out when Dirk got injured. Nobody will remember that Dallas was sucking big time since the trade, way before Dirk's injury.
actually, i havent heard any excuses for this team despite dirks absence. they are still losing games that they should be winning.

and if they are playing this badly without Dirk, it shows just how awesome of a player that Dirk really is, and should earn him some more respect. it also proves that it was his teammates the past several years that let the team down, far more than Dirk ever did. these guys (except for once in a while Terry and Stack) can never seem to deliver when the team needs it most. their only chance at anyone making big shots these days is for Dirk to find a way to shed a double team, or to hit a crazy 3 over like three guys, because no one else will hit anything, even despite him drawing the double team and finding the open man.

[1Parker1]

:lol Interestingly enough, outside of Dirk the person who has mostly benefited from Kidd and his style of play is Dampier. I've never seen Dampier running so hard back on offense and catching slick passes from Kidd for easy transition baskets. They should run the uptempo game a lot more than they do.

And Mav fans are highly overating the effect of Terry and Stack on the team. In fact, I'll go as far to say that those two players are a big part of the reason why I never think of the Mavs as serious contenders. You can always count on either of them to take a bad shot, lose their cool, or mess up on defense in the clutch. They are not reliable players or even good role players.

[monosylab1k]

Terry & Howard cannot be on the team next year. I don't care what we get for them, they have to be gone from the team.

[Findog]

And Mav fans are highly overating the effect of Terry and Stack on the team.

Really? You must have missed the constant crapping on them all year long.

[fitzgerald]

Avery has no clue still. His lineups are never consistent. How can they ever develop chemistry when he changes it all the time. Even before Dirk's injury the lineup was always fluctuating. Unbelievable. Does anyone know why Stackhouse wasn't playing?

[Findog]

Stack was hurt and not in uniform.

[sribb43]

Stack was hurt and not in uniform.

not that he would have determined whether we won or not...but for stack not to step up and play through and injury when the team is missing Dirk and playing a team that is right there with them for the final playoff spots, tells me alot about Stack and his lack of toughness that he is so often praised for

oh ya and not playing Damp last night is nothing new...at least avery is consistent in is inability to coach

[clambake]

Terry & Howard cannot be on the team next year. I don't care what we get for them, they have to be gone from the team.
that sounds like "just blow it up".

what do you do after the smoke clears? any "feasible" thoughts?

[monosylab1k]

that sounds like "just blow it up".
how is that? I didn't say anything about Dirk or Kidd. You think trading away some secondary players who aren't getting the job done is blowing it up?

[mavsfan1000]

Stack missing would've helped us except Terry was having a bad shooting game in his place. About time we give Wright a chance to start. He is the only that isn't one-dimensional unlike Stack and Terry. Also I agree that Dampier should've been playing but it was an extremely difficult defensive assignment having to guard Harrington on the perimter.

[1Parker1]

Really? You must have missed the constant crapping on them all year long.


I was referring to Stretch's post in which he claimed that Terry and Stack were the only ones that sometimes claim thru in the clutch for the Mavs when it's the opposite.

[clambake]

how is that? I didn't say anything about Dirk or Kidd. You think trading away some secondary players who aren't getting the job done is blowing it up?
dirk is jumpshooter. kidd looks like a deer in the headlights, lately. i didn't see last nights game, but i've seen him afraid to shoot in others, which is strange for a guy who seemed to have nerves of steel.

kidd and dirk would be great if they had teammate that played in the paint. it couldn't be just any player. he'd have to be a beast for it to benefit kidd and dirk.

who is going to give us that or how in the hell do we get there?

[Findog]

not that he would have determined whether we won or not...but for stack not to step up and play through and injury when the team is missing Dirk and playing a team that is right there with them for the final playoff spots, tells me alot about Stack and his lack of toughness that he is so often praised for

oh ya and not playing Damp last night is nothing new...at least avery is consistent in is inability to coach

Yup, can't disagree with that. I was just answering another poster asking about Stack's whereabouts though.

[Findog]

I was referring to Stretch's post in which he claimed that Terry and Stack were the only ones that sometimes claim thru in the clutch for the Mavs when it's the opposite.

Stack hit a buzzer beater earlier this year. Terry has hit several clutch shots for this team in his tenure here. But that was in the past, they've been spares for the most part this season.

[1Parker1]

:lol I don't care about buzzer beaters in early season games. 9 times out of 10, you can count on those two to mess up in the clutch for the team. Plus, they're very soft defensively and are one trick ponies who only look to score. They're not going to do anything else or bring anything else on the team. They're not exactly "X factors" or great passers or even good "energy players" they don't even hustle.

[monosylab1k]

:lol I don't care about buzzer beaters in early season games. 9 times out of 10, you can count on those two to mess up in the clutch for the team. Plus, they're very soft defensively and are one trick ponies who only look to score. They're not going to do anything else or bring anything else on the team. They're not exactly "X factors" or great passers or even good "energy players" they don't even hustle.
You didn't watch the Mavericks before this season, did you?

Stack & Terry have been awful for most of this year, but they came through big many, many times before this season. Nobody expected this big of a drop-off by both of them.

[Findog]

:lol I don't care about buzzer beaters in early season games. 9 times out of 10, you can count on those two to mess up in the clutch for the team. Plus, they're very soft defensively and are one trick ponies who only look to score. They're not going to do anything else or bring anything else on the team. They're not exactly "X factors" or great passers or even good "energy players" they don't even hustle.

They don't hustle? Stackhouse *isn't* a good passer? Motherfucker, have you ever seen Stackhouse play? He's not the ballhog his rep makes him out to be. His passing ability has what has made him so dangerous throughout his career.

They've been spares this season, but they've brought more to this team than "just scoring" in the past.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Avery has no clue what he is doing, He better be fired in the offseason...

[stretch]

I was referring to Stretch's post in which he claimed that Terry and Stack were the only ones that sometimes claim thru in the clutch for the Mavs when it's the opposite.
and they have at times, especially more in the past. but lately, more often than not, they are the ones messing up.

i think you completely misunderstood/misread my post, which shouldn't be suprising to me.

[stretch]

:Plus, they're very soft defensively and are one trick ponies who only look to score. They're not going to do anything else or bring anything else on the team. They're not exactly "X factors" or great passers or even good "energy players" they don't even hustle.
Hmm... sounds like Tony Parker. Good for his speed/driving ability, but cant shoot, cant defend, average passer at best, too small to hustle, etc...

[Trainwreck2100]

Hmm... sounds like Tony Parker. Good for his speed/driving ability, but cant shoot, cant defend, average passer at best, too small to hustle, etc...
Spurs dont really need him to do all that shit, cept the shooting, which has improved over the years.

[stretch]

Spurs dont really need him to do all that shit, cept the shooting, which has improved over the years.
oh, and dont forget defense. that could help some too. and passing, since he is a point guard.

[1Parker1]

:lmao At Mav Fans. Sensitive much? I'm calling it like I see it. Blame Avery, Dirk, Kidd etc all you want, but when your role players don't know their roles and continuously don't show up in big moments or do the little things to help the team win, ur bound to keep losing.

Case 1:
After the Kidd trade, in the game vs. San Antonio. .35 sec left, Mavs have the ball, Avery takes out Kidd (which of course was a mistake), but instead they do a pick and role..Terry attempts to go one on one and shoot a fadeaway jump shot behind the foul line (which I believe was partially blocked) and misses. Meanwhile, Stack is standing wide open at the 3 point line. Wrong play at the Wrong moment.

Case 2:
Next game against the Spurs. Spurs lose Dirk, however, are still in the game in the 3rd or 4th quarter I believe. They're starting to get the momentum back after the Spurs go on an 18-0 run to take the lead. Stack loses his cool, commits a bad and cheap shot at Ginobili, gets a technical foul, Ginobili goes on a tear after he gets mad by the Stackhouse play, scores the Spurs next 5 points, momemtum and game back on the Spurs side. Wrong play at the wrong moment.

These are just 2 examples I saw against the Spurs. You know in close games as they usually are in the playoffs, it's little things and little details to execution that often make or break a team. Guys like Stackhouse and Terry often don't pay attention to little details like that.

:rolleyes

[1Parker1]

oh, and dont forget defense. that could help some too. and passing, since he is a point guard.


:lmao How many assists did Terry and Harris average for the Mavs? How many Finals MVP's did they win?

[fitzgerald]

Bottomline, Terry and Stackhouse have consistently failed. Their time is up. We need new blood. Build around Kidd, Dirk, Bass and Howard for another year. I really believe they are so better off tanking this year and saving that draft pick. I do want Avery gone also. Next year would look so much more promising.

[monosylab1k]

:lmao At Mav Fans. Sensitive much? I'm calling it like I see it. Blame Avery, Dirk, Kidd etc all you want, but when your role players don't know their roles and continuously don't show up in big moments or do the little things to help the team win, ur bound to keep losing.

Case 1:
After the Kidd trade, in the game vs. San Antonio. .35 sec left, Mavs have the ball, Avery takes out Kidd (which of course was a mistake), but instead they do a pick and role..Terry attempts to go one on one and shoot a fadeaway jump shot behind the foul line (which I believe was partially blocked) and misses. Meanwhile, Stack is standing wide open at the 3 point line. Wrong play at the Wrong moment.

Case 2:
Next game against the Spurs. Spurs lose Dirk, however, are still in the game in the 3rd or 4th quarter I believe. They're starting to get the momentum back after the Spurs go on an 18-0 run to take the lead. Stack loses his cool, commits a bad and cheap shot at Ginobili, gets a technical foul, Ginobili goes on a tear after he gets mad by the Stackhouse play, scores the Spurs next 5 points, momemtum and game back on the Spurs side. Wrong play at the wrong moment.

These are just 2 examples I saw against the Spurs. You know in close games as they usually are in the playoffs, it's little things and little details to execution that often make or break a team. Guys like Stackhouse and Terry often don't pay attention to little details like that.

:rolleyes
Case 3:

Overtime of game 7 of the 2006 WCSF. Stackhouse hits a couple jumpers and Tim Duncan gets bent over & raped by Diop.

You're right, Stackhouse never comes through in close playoff games. And the Spurs always do.

[monosylab1k]

Bottomline, Terry and Stackhouse have consistently failed.
This season, yes they have. Their time in Dallas has definitely run it's course.

But let's not forget that those guys DID make some huge plays for us.

[Dirk Nowitzki]

Stretch it is all good brother. The Mavs are going to run the table once Dirk returns. They will beat the Spurs round 1 and go onto win the 2008 title. Relax bro these guys are champions and they are going to prove it over the next couple of months. Doom and gloom wont be the theme of the Mavs much longer. Im being patient but I have so much faith in this team that I just KNOW deep down inside they are going to shock the world when it is least expected.

[Trainwreck2100]

Case 3:

Tim Duncan gets bent over & raped by Diop.

.

Guess we dont have to worry about that anymore, huh? Well, you still got Damp, and he's raped the Mavs for years.

[Cry Havoc]

actually, i havent heard any excuses for this team despite dirks absence. they are still losing games that they should be winning.

and if they are playing this badly without Dirk, it shows just how awesome of a player that Dirk really is, and should earn him some more respect. it also proves that it was his teammates the past several years that let the team down, far more than Dirk ever did. these guys (except for once in a while Terry and Stack) can never seem to deliver when the team needs it most. their only chance at anyone making big shots these days is for Dirk to find a way to shed a double team, or to hit a crazy 3 over like three guys, because no one else will hit anything, even despite him drawing the double team and finding the open man.


The abysmal regression of Josh Howard HAS to be partly to blame for this. He took 3 steps back this season.

[stretch]

:lmao How many assists did Terry and Harris average for the Mavs? How many Finals MVP's did they win?
How many rings and Finals MVP's did Parker have handed to him on a silver platter from Tim Duncan?

I don't care what any of you guys say, without Tim Duncan, Tony Parker is just an average point guard. No all-star selections. No 50% FG shooting. Just another PG. At least Terry and Stack have proven themselves to be good basketball players with horrible ass teams.

[stretch]

Stretch it is all good brother. The Mavs are going to run the table once Dirk returns. They will beat the Spurs round 1 and go onto win the 2008 title. Relax bro these guys are champions and they are going to prove it over the next couple of months. Doom and gloom wont be the theme of the Mavs much longer. Im being patient but I have so much faith in this team that I just KNOW deep down inside they are going to shock the world when it is least expected.
haha, wouldn't that be an interesting 1st round matchup? I don't think anyone would have thought that they could be meeting in the first round.

[1Parker1]

Case 3:

Overtime of game 7 of the 2006 WCSF. Stackhouse hits a couple jumpers and Tim Duncan gets bent over & raped by Diop.

You're right, Stackhouse never comes through in close playoff games. And the Spurs always do.


:lol You're kidding me right? I look at that as completely different:

Case 3B:
Terry loses his cool in Game 5, with the Mavs having a 3-1 lead in the series, punches Finley, gets suspended for game 6, Spurs go on to win Game 5 as well as Game 6 and if not for a tacky and bad foul by Ginobili in the closing seconds of Game 7, Mavs fans would be singing a different tune.

I love how Mavs fans continually look at the 2006 defeat of the Spurs in the Semi-Finals as their idea of a "championship" They didn't go on to win anything, they didn't completely dominate the Spurs in that series, it came down to one tiny possession in a Game 7 that could have gone either way, and they managed to collapse the following year as well.

Where was Stackhouse and Terry in the GS series? Where were Stackhouse and Terry in the Heat series for games 3-6?

[fitzgerald]

Stretch it is all good brother. The Mavs are going to run the table once Dirk returns. They will beat the Spurs round 1 and go onto win the 2008 title. Relax bro these guys are champions and they are going to prove it over the next couple of months. Doom and gloom wont be the theme of the Mavs much longer. Im being patient but I have so much faith in this team that I just KNOW deep down inside they are going to shock the world when it is least expected.


Is this guy serious or just trying to be positive? Or is he on drugs? Dude, give it up. Time to admit this team is done. This team will not get better until parts are replaced. Period.

[stretch]

:lol You're kidding me right? I look at that as completely different:

Case 3B:
Terry loses his cool in Game 5, with the Mavs having a 3-1 lead in the series, punches Finley, gets suspended for game 6, Spurs go on to win Game 5 as well as Game 6 and if not for a tacky and bad foul by Ginobili in the closing seconds of Game 7, Mavs fans would be singing a different tune.

I love how Mavs fans continually look at the 2006 defeat of the Spurs in the Semi-Finals as their idea of a "championship" They didn't go on to win anything, they didn't completely dominate the Spurs in that series, it came down to one tiny possession in a Game 7 that could have gone either way, and they managed to collapse the following year as well.

Where was Stackhouse and Terry in the GS series? Where were Stackhouse and Terry in the Heat series for games 3-6?

Actually, Stack gave us some HUGE buckets in the Heat series, especially in game 6. In fact, he was the only one making plays aside from Dirk. He hit a couple very big 3's there toward the end for us.

Seriously, you're the one getting over-sensitive on this subject. We all agreed with you that they haven't been huge for us when we needed them most, mainly this season. But since we didn't say that they are the two most garbage, POS players that the league has ever seen and that they deserve to be chopped and fed to the hungry, you get all butt-hurt and start talking out your ass.

Most all spurs fans here would agree that those two guys in the past have had some big games and hit plenty of HUGE shots for us previously. They would also agree that they have sucked this year. So what is your problem?

[And1Mak]

As a fan looking in from the outside, I would have given Damp some more minutes.

But look at it this way, we did not have Dirk or Stack, and the game IN golden state was still pretty close.

I'm convinced that these mavericks are 1 solid penetrating guard away from a championship. A guard who can drive to the rim for an easy basket or get to the free throw line. Didn't Dywane Wade and Baron Davis give us a schooling on this?

The thing is---Stackhouse is now our best penetrating guard. Yeah the senior citizen who just happens to play for the Dallas Mavericks.

I love Jason Kidd, I really do. But whatever intangibles and distributing skills are just not good enough to cover up for what Devin Harris brought to this team.

AJ might get fired because of general outrage we all know about. Or he might not, Cuban's shirt might have said it all.

Either way, I think the Mavs still need to get that guard if they want to have a legitimate shot at Larry O'Brien.

[ElNono]

Stretch it is all good brother. The Mavs are going to run the table once Dirk returns. They will beat the Spurs round 1 and go onto win the 2008 title. Relax bro these guys are champions and they are going to prove it over the next couple of months. Doom and gloom wont be the theme of the Mavs much longer. Im being patient but I have so much faith in this team that I just KNOW deep down inside they are going to shock the world when it is least expected.

FWIW, April's Fools day is tomorrow.

[mavsfan1000]

As a fan looking in from the outside, I would have given Damp some more minutes.

But look at it this way, we did not have Dirk or Stack, and the game IN golden state was still pretty close.

I'm convinced that these mavericks are 1 solid penetrating guard away from a championship. A guard who can drive to the rim for an easy basket or get to the free throw line. Didn't Dywane Wade and Baron Davis give us a schooling on this?

The thing is---Stackhouse is now our best penetrating guard. Yeah the senior citizen who just happens to play for the Dallas Mavericks.

I love Jason Kidd, I really do. But whatever intangibles and distributing skills are just not good enough to cover up for what Devin Harris brought to this team.

AJ might get fired because of general outrage we all know about. Or he might not, Cuban's shirt might have said it all.

Either way, I think the Mavs still need to get that guard if they want to have a legitimate shot at Larry O'Brien.
Yep we're one Devin Harris and Desagna Diop from winning a championship.

[stretch]

I love Jason Kidd, I really do. But whatever intangibles and distributing skills are just not good enough to cover up for what Devin Harris brought to this team.
His intangibles and distributing skills are not being used because of Avery's terrible coaching, and love for a half-court, isolation offense. In that sort of system, it would be better to have Harris. But the fact is, to run those systems, you have to have a consistent post scorer, which we don't have. We need to have more motion, and have a more uptempo offense, that is still capable of running a half-court set efficiently, like we did the year we went to the finals.

[monosylab1k]

Yep we're one Devin Harris and Desagna Diop from winning a championship.
You're three years away from being a fan of another team.

[ElNono]

His intangibles and distributing skills are not being used because of Avery's terrible coaching, and love for a half-court, isolation offense. In that sort of system, it would be better to have Harris. But the fact is, to run those systems, you have to have a consistent post scorer, which we don't have. We need to have more motion, and have a more uptempo offense, that is still capable of running a half-court set efficiently, like we did the year we went to the finals.

The thing is, uptempo offense hasn't won shit since the Showtime Lakers. Are you sure you want to play Nellie ball again?