what the hell is happening in Holland?

[inconvertible]

one of the first countries to sponser religious freedom, is being taken over by that freedom..............wow.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103

[inconvertible]

if they ever make marijuana illegal again watch out. that will be the sign to run.

[inconvertible]

this is what happens when an entire country pacifies itself with weed.

[some_user86]

Ok, for those of us too lazy to watch the video, can someone summarize?

[Nbadan]

Hmmm.......I can see it's time for a little history lesson on radical Islam again....




IAUDcmaJNWQ&feature=related

The power of Nightmares Part 2

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ny0RPMmDmZ8&feature=related

The power of Nightmares Part 3

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L_VDh6xUJWc&feature=related

The power of Nightmares Part 4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I8ztzg-zCZQ&feature=related

The Power of Nightmares Part 5

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z3uE_whPDUY&feature=related

The Power of Nightmares Part 6

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8C8QHRUauzE&feature=related

[Nbadan]

Ok, for those of us too lazy to watch the video, can someone summarize?


Basically it's a bunch of Bloody gore and Islamic quotes, mixed in with some chastising of Holland....

[Peter]

Bloody gore and Islamic quotes

Sounds familiar.

[E20]

I don't know why Muslims are angered. I've seen, and so has the rest of the world, something like this 2 years ago, nothing new.

It's always Holland/the Netherlands making Muslims angry :lol . Maybe Al-Qaeda should focus on them.

[Don Quixote]

This is nothing. Just wait until Islam becomes the dominant religion in the Netherlands -- then we'll pretty much see the end of freedom as we know it there.\

This was caused partly by the fall of the church in Western Europe. As the church declined, European culture and politics assumed, naturally enough, that all religions were pretty much the same. Either equally wrong, or equally irrelevant, whatever. Put that together with liberal immigration policies and poor human rights and no opportunities in the Islamic world, and they've ended up with Islamic "ghettos." They have not assimilated, and have little interest in assimilating, into Western culture.

This would not be overly troublesome until one remembers that Islam is not only a religion. The Western notion that someone can just compartmentalize religious belief to the private realm, and be something else publicly, does not exist in Islam. In other words, it is also a political system, and its goal is to spread the will of God through sharia.

So, yes, the West has given them freedom and opportunity they would have never had in Islamic countries. And, no, they are not likely to return the favor when/if they become the majority.

I posed a good question to one of my best friends, a missionary currently in Israel. I asked him, "if Islam is such a great system, why do they all come to the West? Isn't God's divinely ordained system adequate to take care of them?"

He said, "no, they just say that the Middle East is messed up because the West has oppressed them. It's pathological."

[Don Quixote]

This is not to say, of course, that the Netherlands is becoming a terrorist state. I don't think many of the immigrants are radicals.

But do expect to see Western freedom severely curtailed if Islam becomes the majority.

[inconvertible]

This is nothing. Just wait until Islam becomes the dominant religion in the Netherlands -- then we'll pretty much see the end of freedom as we know it there.\

This was caused partly by the fall of the church in Western Europe. As the church declined, European culture and politics assumed, naturally enough, that all religions were pretty much the same. Either equally wrong, or equally irrelevant, whatever. Put that together with liberal immigration policies and poor human rights and no opportunities in the Islamic world, and they've ended up with Islamic "ghettos." They have not assimilated, and have little interest in assimilating, into Western culture.

This would not be overly troublesome until one remembers that Islam is not only a religion. The Western notion that someone can just compartmentalize religious belief to the private realm, and be something else publicly, does not exist in Islam. In other words, it is also a political system, and its goal is to spread the will of God through sharia.

So, yes, the West has given them freedom and opportunity they would have never had in Islamic countries. And, no, they are not likely to return the favor when/if they become the majority.

I posed a good question to one of my best friends, a missionary currently in Israel. I asked him, "if Islam is such a great system, why do they all come to the West? Isn't God's divinely ordained system adequate to take care of them?"

He said, "no, they just say that the Middle East is messed up because the West has oppressed them. It's pathological."




very well put. the roman empire turned into the "holy" roman empire in the same exact manner..............and people thought history was a boring subject in school......those dutch better start learning about their own history or they will be doomed to repeat it.

[xrayzebra]

This is nothing. Just wait until Islam becomes the dominant religion in the Netherlands -- then we'll pretty much see the end of freedom as we know it there.\

This was caused partly by the fall of the church in Western Europe. As the church declined, European culture and politics assumed, naturally enough, that all religions were pretty much the same. Either equally wrong, or equally irrelevant, whatever. Put that together with liberal immigration policies and poor human rights and no opportunities in the Islamic world, and they've ended up with Islamic "ghettos." They have not assimilated, and have little interest in assimilating, into Western culture.

This would not be overly troublesome until one remembers that Islam is not only a religion. The Western notion that someone can just compartmentalize religious belief to the private realm, and be something else publicly, does not exist in Islam. In other words, it is also a political system, and its goal is to spread the will of God through sharia.

So, yes, the West has given them freedom and opportunity they would have never had in Islamic countries. And, no, they are not likely to return the favor when/if they become the majority.

I posed a good question to one of my best friends, a missionary currently in Israel. I asked him, "if Islam is such a great system, why do they all come to the West? Isn't God's divinely ordained system adequate to take care of them?"

He said, "no, they just say that the Middle East is messed up because the West has oppressed them. It's pathological."

Great post and so very true. Muslim-ism is very much
a political system. And the Mullah's will never give up
the power they hold over "their" people. Al-Sadar (sp)
is a prime example. And who do you think teaches
them the West is to blame for all their troubles, those
same Mullah's.

[clambake]

Great post and so very true. Muslim-ism is very much
a political system. And the Mullah's will never give up
the power they hold over "their" people. Al-Sadar (sp)
is a prime example. And who do you think teaches
them the West is to blame for all their troubles, those
same Mullah's.
i think this is the first time that you and yonivore have disagreed.

[some_user86]

Great post and so very true. Muslim-ism is very much
a political system. And the Mullah's will never give up
the power they hold over "their" people. Al-Sadar (sp)
is a prime example. And who do you think teaches
them the West is to blame for all their troubles, those
same Mullah's.

I agree, it was a great post.

The reason for Islam's great rise will be the same reason for it's great fall. Mohammed made a key mistake when he created his religion. By being the military, political, and religious leader (all-in-one), he ensured that these three aspects would forever be intricately linked. It's the reason why moderate Muslims have such a hard time getting a following. They can't separate the political and religious aspects of the religion. An extremist can use the fact that Mohammed himself was an army general to launch wars against others. Its deeply tied in the history of the religion. Most religions may have operated in such a way at one time or another, but no longer do so today. There is no intricate requirement in any of the other major religions to tie policy with religion. Their is very nearly such a requirement with Islam.

Islam was born out of the period where society didn't have enough scientific and historical ability to stop new cults from forming (a la Scientology) but society did have just enough historical ability to write down everything some god-man said word for word without purifying some of the ideas (a la Christianity).

[Pistons_In_7]

If i lived in the armpit of the universe that is the middle east, and bigwigs were promising me 72 virgin wives when i died and to drink from a river of honey, and if i lived in a mud hut and had nothing going for me, i would ask where do i sign up?

It's pretty sad one's path in life in most cases is directly related to the area an culture they are born into. In essence in one way or another we are all born into a form of "brainwashing" that is called religion. We are programmed and if we go against the status quo were are considered infidels or the devil.

[Extra Stout]

What is the prevailing "social myth" for Western Europe these days? Do they even have one anymore?

[smeagol]

Fucking dutch beat us in the 1998 WC

[velik_m]

Fucking dutch beat us in the 1998 WC

Bergkamp!


if they ever make marijuana illegal again watch out. that will be the sign to run.

Marijuana IS illegal in Holland.

[Don Quixote]

I'm glad people understood what I was saying. I thought my post was rather ragged and nebulous.

Anyway, I must state that I am not trying to demonize or spread lies about Islam. Indeed, Islam has some good characteristics that appeal to people disillusioned with (liberal) modernism: it teaches a proscriptive system of morals, it is theistic, Moslem culture places a high emphasis on honor, they don't abort their babies, and are much more relationship-oriented than are Westerners. In fact, Moslem converts to Christianity are often taken aback by our aloof nature.

We can also credit Islam for its advances in mathematics, medicine and science in the medieval era. It was Moslems who preserved the writings of Aristotle and produced the first grammars of Old Testament Hebrew (at the time, a dead language). So Islam has made some positive contributions.

However, remember that even non-violent Islam simply does not work when it is not also the state religion. (Contrast this with Christianity, which is compromised when it is the state religion.) If a "moderate" Moslem says that, yes, Islam can coexist with democracy and religious pluralism, then either he misunderstands Islam or has willingly compromised -- I have run into these types.

The common denominator is that the goal of Islam is to rule, peacefully if possible, but violently if necessary. And don't expect Western freedoms when that happens.

[PixelPusher]

wow all these doctors of islam

i didn't even know
...and experts in Dutch culture no less.

[Don Quixote]

The reason for Islam's great rise will be the same reason for it's great fall. Mohammed made a key mistake when he created his religion. By being the military, political, and religious leader (all-in-one), he ensured that these three aspects would forever be intricately linked. It's the reason why moderate Muslims have such a hard time getting a following. They can't separate the political and religious aspects of the religion. An extremist can use the fact that Mohammed himself was an army general to launch wars against others. Its deeply tied in the history of the religion. Most religions may have operated in such a way at one time or another, but no longer do so today. There is no intricate requirement in any of the other major religions to tie policy with religion. Their is very nearly such a requirement with Islam.

Islam was born out of the period where society didn't have enough scientific and historical ability to stop new cults from forming (a la Scientology) but society did have just enough historical ability to write down everything some god-man said word for word without purifying some of the ideas (a la Christianity).

Thanks for your feedback. I would disagree, however, that Mohammed made a big mistake in rolling religion, state, and economics all into one. It is debatable whether he was even capable of such a thing. I tend to think that the three were always rolled together by seventh-century Arabian leaders -- he imported that into the religion. And, we must remember, that the Islamic world only fell behind the West in the 18th century. Before then, Islam led the world. It controlled the trade routes, it had the spices, it did not have great big wars (unlike Europe), it had one language, and the medieval world was not too terribly different than the seventh century.

But the Islamic world eventually fell behind, and is now in decline. It was the West that discovered the New World in the search for wealth. They used gunpowder from China against the Moslems. And the technological and Industrial revolution largely skipped the Islamic world until the 20th century. (See the books of Bernard Lewis for more details here.) But Islam was a great system for a medieval world.

As for religions and violence, it is true that most Western religions have some violence in their past. But where Christianity, for instance, differs from Islam is that the church running the state, fighting wars, and running the economy is not an essential part of Christianity. In fact, state churches weaken Christianity and hinder the gospel. Islam, on the other hand, MUST function in a position of authority.

Not sure I got your point about cults. Yes, strange religions have appeared on the scene from time to time. But the last 200 years have produced thousands of cults, too. And the Gospel writers, in particular, were very interested in history, as were the Church Fathers and the Reformers.

But a good post.

[Jelly]

If i lived in the armpit of the universe that is the middle east, and bigwigs were promising me 72 virgin wives when i died and to drink from a river of honey, and if i lived in a mud hut and had nothing going for me, i would ask where do i sign up?

It's pretty sad one's path in life in most cases is directly related to the area an culture they are born into. In essence in one way or another we are all born into a form of "brainwashing" that is called religion. We are programmed and if we go against the status quo were are considered infidels or the devil.

While that stereotype may be true of some of the suicide bombers in Iraq, as I recall, the 9/11 hijackers all came from well-off families and were very well educated (many having post-graduate degrees from the U.S. and Europe)