Tmass

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

More minutes? would you give him malik or horrys minutes?

and on the side, would a malik for Zo trade work out salary wise?

[Gummi]

No. He´s just a role player that will get minutes from time to time. Against the Bucks we needed some muscle and power so Pop called on Massenburg. Horry is more mobile and is a good defensive player and can guard a quicker forward like Nowitzki, Marion, and so on. Massenburg is only a banger and guards physical guys like Malone, Shaq, and so on, but only for a limited time.

Massenburg´s role is simply the same as Willis´last season. Play limited minutes and garbage time. His offense is very limited to the lane. He doesn´t have the range that Horry and Rose have.

[Brodels]

Yes, at certain times.

The biggest problem this team has had is softness. TMass is a tough SOB, you know he's going to give great effort when he's on the court, and he isn't going to back down.

The Spurs need an enforcer on the floor at least a few minutes every game. He's not as talented as Horry and Rose and he really is a role player, but the Spurs could really benefit from his talent. The Spurs don't need him to score. They need him to provide toughness.

[boutons]

"great effort when he's on the court"

... for 7 minutes/game, mainly garbage minutes, as one would expect in 3rd string, one-foot-in-retirement, 37-year-old big. He gets as many PFs as he does RBs, 1.5/game. BFD

His impact has been marginal and insignificant for first half of the season, why would it be any different for the rest of the season?

Games and the NBA title will be won or lost by the main rotation, as always. The toughness and rebounding must be in the main rotation, first/last/always. So far this season, the main rotation hasn't been tough, and TMass hasn't made any difference.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

i think the spurs defense depends heavily on having 2 big men for help D, and our help D struggles when malik is in, due to his size.

[Useruser666]

No. He´s just a role player that will get minutes from time to time. Against the Bucks we needed some muscle and power so Pop called on Massenburg. Horry is more mobile and is a good defensive player and can guard a quicker forward like Nowitzki, Marion, and so on. Massenburg is only a banger and guards physical guys like Malone, Shaq, and so on, but only for a limited time.

Massenburg´s role is simply the same as Willis´last season. Play limited minutes and garbage time. His offense is very limited to the lane. He doesn´t have the range that Horry and Rose have.

Guard Malone if he is on the Spurs bench? :)

[exstatic]

Give TMass Malone's minutes.

If Toronto will do a Zo for Malik (or Rasho) deal, you do it. He was playing 25 mpg with NJ and averaging 10.4p/7.1r/2.3b. This is one place where he can play, put up good numbers, and still have his minutes monitored and limited. No one looks at you strange in SA if that's your portion of minutes. Zo would fit perfectly into the Spurs funnel to the shotblockers defensive scheme. Plus, it would piss off Cuban, which is always a good thing.

[ChumpDumper]

Zo is falling apart -- no way I take on that uninsured contract.

Maybe after he's bought out, but he might not even play out the season.

[ALVAREZ6]

Plus, it would piss off Cuban, which is always a good thing.

:lol :lol :lol

[grjr]

Tony M is a free throw shootin' mofo though. He should play in place of Duncan at the end of close games. :smokin

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

How high do the spurs think of scola? if they think scola can contribute and take maliks spot, then i think the trade would be good, people have been screaming for malik to be traded anyways, and Zo would fit pretty well with the spurs, and if not Scola can come in next year and replace malik

[ALVAREZ6]

Tony M is a free throw shootin' mofo though. He should play in place of Duncan at the end of close games. :smokin


Why the hell would you want him to play in place of TD at the END of CLOSE games???

:wtf :wtf

[grjr]

Why the hell would you want him to play in place of TD at the END of CLOSE games???

:wtf :wtf

:lol

[exstatic]

Zo is falling apart -- no way I take on that uninsured contract.

Was he on IR when NJ traded him? He played roughly the same amount of games as the other two players, Aaron Williams and Eric Williams, that were sent from NJ. Zo played 18, Aaron 19 and Eric 21.

[ChumpDumper]

Was he on IR when NJ traded him?Toronto waived the routine medical exam, otherwise that trade whould never have happened.

[exstatic]

Okey doke.

[Brodels]

Massenburg will never be a contributor, but he can be a solid role player with some minutes. You need role players to win championships. Sometimes a role player can completely change the face of a game...look at Steve Kerr in the playoffs a couple of years ago.

Just because he isn't Duncan and has spend time on the bench doesn't mean that he can't be useful. The Spurs need toughness. Why not give one of your toughest players some burn? When Rasho is playing well, Rasho should get minutes. But if Rasho isn't rebounding or defending, why not give Mass some burn?

He does a lot of the little things. As long as he's on the floor with some scorers, he can be very useful in the right situation.

Hell, Danny Ferry played a useful role for this team at the end of his career.

[exstatic]

Massenburg did VERY well last year filling in for CWebb in Sacto. He averaged close to a double/double, so I think he CAN be a contributor.

[boutons]

"double/double"

BS. Tony has never avg'd a double-double in his career, most year's not even close. Last year at SAC 3.2 and 2.2.

[Brodels]

"double/double"

BS. Tony has never avg'd a double-double in his career, most year's not even close. Last year at SAC 3.2 and 2.2.

He's talking about when CWebb was out.

But it doesn't matter. It's necessary to utilize your player's positive attributes. When the team needs toughness, insert a player who will provide toughness. This is the NBA. Anyone at this level can contribute if given the right opportunity. If the situation is right and toughness is needed, Pop shouldn't hesitate to use Mass.

If you disagree, answer this: where is the toughness going to come from? Are you going to beat Rasho and Horry until they play tough all of the time? Are you going to beat Malik until he surgically removes his scissorhands and replaces them with normal human hands?

[boutons]

"where is the toughness going to come from"

Spurs aren't tough. Tonight was a great test, to hold off DAL late charge, and do it with FTs in crunch time, and Tony hitting a big one. But the Spurs are not a tough team, able to get it done in the face of tough competition or when they aren't playing well, being their own worst enemy, but find a way to win anyway.

But Tony M plays so little, does so little, that last game we were over the moon he did anything at all and did it at just the right time.

"toughness" means shit to me if the big tough-guy doesn't get RBs, block shots, and not miss his defensive assigments. I just don't think TMass can, in the tiny minutes he gets, have an impact one way or the other, and his negatives offset his positives, in nearly all his minutes.

[Brodels]

"where is the toughness going to come from"

Spurs aren't tough. Tonight was a great test, to hold off DAL late charge, and do it with FTs in crunch time, and Tony hitting a big one. But the Spurs are not a tough team, able to get it done in the face of tough competition or when they aren't playing well, being their own worst enemy, but find a way to win anyway.

But Tony M plays so little, does so little, that last game we were over the moon he did anything at all and did it at just the right time.

"toughness" means shit to me if the big tough-guy doesn't get RBs, block shots, and not miss his defensive assigments. I just don't think TMass can, in the tiny minutes he gets, have an impact one way or the other, and his negatives offset his positives, in nearly all his minutes.

I agree that Tony can't make a positive difference sitting on the bench all of the time. He's made a difference for some other teams in the past.

The Spurs aren't tough enough. They lose leads and games because of it. Wouldn't it make sense to give a tough veteran a chance to make a difference?

We can't accurately guage what he brings to the table until he plays more. You simply can't measure his potential impact by looking at his performances in the few games he's played in.

He has a reputation of being tough, so I'm willing to see if he can defend and rebound. We don't know that he can't, that's for sure. And we know he's going to bring toughness and rebounding to the table anyway. He might not be useful offensively, but if he addresses a need, why not give him some burn?

[boutons]

"tough veteran a chance to make a difference"

sure, and the key difference would be on defense, and grabbing rebounds. But more often than not, when Tony is trying to get a stop or anyway near the play, he fouls, no rebound, no stop, no help, sit down.

[Brodels]

"tough veteran a chance to make a difference"

sure, and the key difference would be on defense, and grabbing rebounds. But more often than not, when Tony is trying to get a stop or anyway near the play, he fouls, no rebound, no stop, no help, sit down.

He hasn't really had an opportunity to get into any kind of groove.

The point is, if Horry and Rasho and Rose aren't getting the job done (and it has happened before), why not give a proven veteran a chance? You don't last 12 years in the league without bringing something to the table. He's not as athletic as the others and he is foul prone, but sometimes that just doesn't matter. Sometimes an injection of toughness can get the team going in the right direction.

If Horry, Rasho, and Rose are playing well you want them to be on the court. But if they aren't, what do you have to lose?

[SequSpur]

Did Mass get to play tonight?

[Tek_XX]

We definitly need to see more of TMass, he's got toughness that we will need down the road. I was impressed when he came in against Milawaukee and played awesome.

[boutons]

Oh, we're talking about physical toughness? oh fuck that, it's total BS compared to what really counts:

Spurs aren't tough mentally. With mental toughness, there won't be any need for physical toughness, which is highly overrated, like muscles. Spurs aren't a bang-it-up team, they're a finesse team, just like Duncan isn't a power player, he's a finesse player.

Give me a mentally tough Spurs TEAM and you can shove your physical toughness where it feels best.

[Brodels]

Oh, we're talking about physical toughness? oh fuck that, it's total BS compared to what really counts:

Spurs aren't tough mentally. With mental toughness, there won't be any need for physical toughness, which is highly overrated, like muscles. Spurs aren't a bang-it-up team, they're a finesse team, just like Duncan isn't a power player, he's a finesse player.

Give me a mentally tough Spurs TEAM and you can shove your physical toughness where it feels best.

Nope. It's physical toughness, too. Most of the Spurs big men are unwilling to bang for stretches at a time. Part of Rasho's problem is mental, but he's never going to be a banger even when his head is right.

Sometimes the ability and willingness to bang in the post, get some rebounds, and commit a few hard fouls is exactly what this team needs.

My solution is to at least give Mass a chance since he's been productive in the past. What's yours? Sit back and hope the guys happen to be mentally tough in any particular game?

[boutons]

Rebounding ain't toughness, jumping, height. Rebounding is 1)position 2)blocking out. Fortson ain't tall, his lard-butt can't jump, but dammit, if you watch him, on a shot, he's always in great position right under the basket, arms up.

Watch excellent rebounding shorty guards like Kidd or Francis get their rebounds. On shots, they are drifting in from the perimeter towards the basket, often getting uncontested rebounds JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE NEAR THE BASKET. I'm always yelling at the TV when our guys are spectating at shots, including their own, rather than moving towards the basket, blocking out, cutting off. You're either getting back on defense, or you're rebounding. I catch the Spurs a lot of times doing neither, spectating shots in no-man's land. I think the Spurs G and F let Tim and Rasho do all the rebounding (but Tim got only 6 RB last night. Is Tim he now "deferring" to Rasho, who got 12?

Giving TMass a few more minutes might help when he's playing, but it ain't gonna fix the team softness all 48 minutes. I don't have have solution for the softness. That's each player's job.

WTF is Tim doing getting only 6 RBs in 36 minutes? DAL is a sucky RB team, what was Tim doing?