Who said this?

[smeagol]

These are quotes from the summer of 2003. Which poster said what?




Everyone loves Manu, the Argentinean Sensation. However, if you look at the stats, you can make an argument that he his overrated. Fans are ready to enshrine him in the Hall of Fame or proclaim him to be The Second Coming, but does he deserve the praise?

I realize that Manu has an exciting game that fans get in a tizzy over, but is there enough substance under that style for him to work as a heavy minute, starting shooting guard in the NBA?



depends on what your term of overrated. are you saying fans are overrating him as a player now or his potential.

if it is his potential I would say not. he is a very sold iq knowledge if the game. He was learning the spurs system last year. he was injured and did not even get a full training camp in. without training camp it hurt him last year. also the playoffs are alot differnet pressure then the regular season. he never had been there before. jackson had been to the playoffs before. manu is not all that yet but I think he would have and still going to be the better player between sj and manu. you can not teach smarts. manu will bulk up and be able to finish better and get more respect from refs.



I used to call Manu... "Manure" at the beginning of the season..

I was wrong.. Vato can play some serious ball. WHEN IT COUNTS.... Thats all that matters brothas and sistas...


(this last one is too easy)



Overrated? Hardly. Every team needs a Mr. Clutch to make it to the promised land. Manu is ours.



I know Manu is hyped a lot, but I don't know if he's overrated per se.

I will reserve judgement until I see him play starters minutes. I think he could lead the league in steals. He's never going to be a Superstar but if he can average 15ppg, I'd be extremely thrilled.



Manu is a solid player, and is a very important ingredient in a championship lineup. But if everyone will take off the rose-colored glasses for a second and look at the numbers, you get a real sense for what he brings to the table. Manu is inconsistent (although his ankle injury probably didn't help any) Personally, I really like his game, and I think he could be a viable solution at shooting guard as a starter. But don't expect his stats to blow up to all star or superstar status. I just don't think he has that kind of game, night in and night out.

Age has nothing to do with it, in my opinion. It's talent. Manu is good, but he's not great. Manu and Michael Jordan should never be mentioned in the same sentence, ever. (Except for what I just did right now!)



Manu is overrated by Spurs homers and especially by our foreign contingent.

If you asked Fizaar, we Ginobili was this summer's superstar replacement for Robinson.

That said, I expect these kind of number for Ginobili next season in astarting role:

13 PPG, 4 RPG, 3, APG, 2 SPG, 39% FG, 28% 3P

Rate that what you will.



I don't know about overatted.

Does anyone here even think he could average more than 17ppg? I haven't seen one person claim that he could get that as a SPUR.

Most people who say that were hoping for more for Manu in his first season. Posters like Ghost Writer, Timvp, Kori etc.... expected Manu to be a 14-15ppg scorer off the bat most likely. Hell most of us did. I thought he had a chance to myself. I figured he had All Star Potential after a season or two alongside Duncan.

Personally I could care less about how spectacular his plays are as far as how I rate him as a player. If he was a weak defender and couldn't pass the ball I wouldn't think so highly of him.

But when you look at his game he has versatility. If he improves his shot and learns the physicality of the NBA he is going to be a special player.

Many of you think of him as an "energy" player at best -- some guy who just comes in and hits a few clutch shots and plays solid D -- but generally not efficient on offense and is too wild.

Personally I disagree. I think he has shown many things as a Spur in his limited time. He can pass, rebound, slash, defend and all of that in the clutch.

I dont see how we are overatting him and his potential?

Who here said he would average 20ppg as a SPUR?



If he gets 32-38 MPG, I think he'll be good for 13-15 PPG. I don't think he'll ever average more than that, but he can get a lot of assists, rebounds and steals.



How clutch was Ginobili with his two missed 3s in Game 4 of the Finals?

If he was as good as everyone thinks, he would've shown it by now.



At his best, Manu can only hope to be every bit as good as Latrell Sprewell, and he's not even in the same league yet as Spree. Looking back, I can't help but think that maybe the Spurs made a mistake by not accepting a Ginobili + capspace for Spree trade if it was really ever on the table. At least that way the Spurs would have had a legitimate scorer instead of gambling on whether Ginobili can become the playa that we all think he can, but which he has yet to prove.



Some people are penciling in Manu as an All-Star in 2004 or a 20+ point scorer. That's why some say he's overrated. Manu is an extremely well-rounded player and he sees the passing lanes better than anyone, but he's not going to be a SuperStar.


AHF
ghost (twice)
nikos
timvp (twice)
addidas11
sequ
NBAdan
Kori (twice)
ducks

[lefty]

Definitely not Sequ

[smeagol]

Definitely not Sequ
One quote per poster except for Kori, timvp and ghost (2 quoter).

One of the quotes is definetely from sequ :lol

[m33p0]

manu is/was underrated by the spurs fans themselves.

waddahyahallthunknow?

[Kori Ellis]

I know Manu is hyped a lot, but I don't know if he's overrated per se.

I will reserve judgement until I see him play starters minutes. I think he could lead the league in steals. He's never going to be a Superstar but if he can average 15ppg, I'd be extremely thrilled.

I think I said this.

[lefty]

Manu is overrated by Spurs homers and especially by our foreign contingent.

That would be Sequ

[Kori Ellis]

I am guessing I said this too ...


Some people are penciling in Manu as an All-Star in 2004 or a 20+ point scorer. That's why some say he's overrated. Manu is an extremely well-rounded player and he sees the passing lanes better than anyone, but he's not going to be a SuperStar.

[Kori Ellis]

Everyone loves Manu, the Argentinean Sensation. However, if you look at the stats, you can make an argument that he his overrated. Fans are ready to enshrine him in the Hall of Fame or proclaim him to be The Second Coming, but does he deserve the praise?

I realize that Manu has an exciting game that fans get in a tizzy over, but is there enough substance under that style for him to work as a heavy minute, starting shooting guard in the NBA?

I am guessing timvp said this.

[Kori Ellis]

Manu is overrated by Spurs homers and especially by our foreign contingent.

If you asked Fizaar, we Ginobili was this summer's superstar replacement for Robinson.

That said, I expect these kind of number for Ginobili next season in astarting role:

13 PPG, 4 RPG, 3, APG, 2 SPG, 39% FG, 28% 3P

Rate that what you will.

and that from timvp

[Kori Ellis]

At his best, Manu can only hope to be every bit as good as Latrell Sprewell, and he's not even in the same league yet as Spree. Looking back, I can't help but think that maybe the Spurs made a mistake by not accepting a Ginobili + capspace for Spree trade if it was really ever on the table. At least that way the Spurs would have had a legitimate scorer instead of gambling on whether Ginobili can become the playa that we all think he can, but which he has yet to prove.

Ghost

[urunobili]

One quote per poster except for Kori, timvp and ghost (2 quoter).

One of the quotes is definetely from sequ :lol
can you put the names of the posters in the quotes?

[FromWayDowntown]

Ghost

That wouldn't surprise. Ghost has been arguing to send away Ginobili for years.

[DAF86]

That "sprewell-ginobili trade" quote is funny.
And a i swear that "ginobili is a good defender" quote isn't mine. :lol

[DAF86]

manu is/was underrated by the spurs fans themselves.

waddahyahallthunknow?

Sad but true

[FromWayDowntown]

Ginobili for Sprewell.

:lmao

[smeagol]

I know Manu is hyped a lot, but I don't know if he's overrated per se.

I will reserve judgement until I see him play starters minutes. I think he could lead the league in steals. He's never going to be a Superstar but if he can average 15ppg, I'd be extremely thrilled.
I think I said this.

You are right.

And I'm sure you are thrilled with him :spin

[Kori Ellis]

You are right.

And I'm sure you are thrilled with him :spin

Well he's averaging 14.7 for his career so far. So my expectations were good. :lol

[smeagol]

That would be Sequ

How could you screw up sequ's quote? :lmao

No, that is not him.

[smeagol]

Well he's averaging 14.7 for his career so far. So my expectations were good. :lol


True, but if you discount his first season, given that he spent most of the time with an ankle injury, the number is probably closer to 16 ppg.

Nevertheless, that was a good prognostication :lol

[smeagol]

Some people are penciling in Manu as an All-Star in 2004 or a 20+ point scorer. That's why some say he's overrated. Manu is an extremely well-rounded player and he sees the passing lanes better than anyone, but he's not going to be a SuperStar.
I am guessing I said this too ...

Right again lady!

It is interesting how people back then did not think Manu could average 20 ppg. Something he is achieving this year.

(I remember stating back in 2004 that I would be happy if he became an 18 / 5 / 5 kind of player).

[smeagol]

Everyone loves Manu, the Argentinean Sensation. However, if you look at the stats, you can make an argument that he his overrated. Fans are ready to enshrine him in the Hall of Fame or proclaim him to be The Second Coming, but does he deserve the praise?

I realize that Manu has an exciting game that fans get in a tizzy over, but is there enough substance under that style for him to work as a heavy minute, starting shooting guard in the NBA?
I am guessing timvp said this.

A fine memory you have there . . .

[smeagol]

and that from timvp



ghost

Wrong on both counts!

With respect to timvp regarding Manu's numbers, he said:


Those shooting percentages are too low. Even when he was struggling with his shot in the postseason, his three-point shot was good.

I'd say more like:

14 PPG, 4 RPG, 4 APG, 2.3 SPG, 44% FG, 37% 3P

[smeagol]

can you put the names of the posters in the quotes?

As soon as people find my silly little game boring, I will :smokin

[Kori Ellis]

At his best, Manu can only hope to be every bit as good as Latrell Sprewell, and he's not even in the same league yet as Spree. Looking back, I can't help but think that maybe the Spurs made a mistake by not accepting a Ginobili + capspace for Spree trade if it was really ever on the table. At least that way the Spurs would have had a legitimate scorer instead of gambling on whether Ginobili can become the playa that we all think he can, but which he has yet to prove.

NBA Dan

[DAF86]

Please i want to know who was the psychic that proposed the manu-latrell trade.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't know about overatted.

Does anyone here even think he could average more than 17ppg? I haven't seen one person claim that he could get that as a SPUR.

Most people who say that were hoping for more for Manu in his first season. Posters like Ghost Writer, Timvp, Kori etc.... expected Manu to be a 14-15ppg scorer off the bat most likely. Hell most of us did. I thought he had a chance to myself. I figured he had All Star Potential after a season or two alongside Duncan.

Personally I could care less about how spectacular his plays are as far as how I rate him as a player. If he was a weak defender and couldn't pass the ball I wouldn't think so highly of him.

But when you look at his game he has versatility. If he improves his shot and learns the physicality of the NBA he is going to be a special player.

Many of you think of him as an "energy" player at best -- some guy who just comes in and hits a few clutch shots and plays solid D -- but generally not efficient on offense and is too wild.

Personally I disagree. I think he has shown many things as a Spur in his limited time. He can pass, rebound, slash, defend and all of that in the clutch.

I dont see how we are overatting him and his potential?

Who here said he would average 20ppg as a SPUR?

Nikos

[Kori Ellis]

Manu is overrated by Spurs homers and especially by our foreign contingent.

If you asked Fizaar, we Ginobili was this summer's superstar replacement for Robinson.

That said, I expect these kind of number for Ginobili next season in astarting role:

13 PPG, 4 RPG, 3, APG, 2 SPG, 39% FG, 28% 3P

Rate that what you will.

Ghost

[Kori Ellis]

I used to call Manu... "Manure" at the beginning of the season..

I was wrong.. Vato can play some serious ball. WHEN IT COUNTS.... Thats all that matters brothas and sistas...

Sequ

[Phenomanul]

The "manure" quote definitely belongs to sequ....

:lol

[Kori Ellis]

If he gets 32-38 MPG, I think he'll be good for 13-15 PPG. I don't think he'll ever average more than that, but he can get a lot of assists, rebounds and steals.

timvp

[Kori Ellis]

How clutch was Ginobili with his two missed 3s in Game 4 of the Finals?

If he was as good as everyone thinks, he would've shown it by now.

Ghost

[timvp]

Sounds like a thread where timvp was trying to rile up the rabid and quickly growing CoM. Early in the season you could only find one Argentine Spurs fan. By the end of the season, it was getting pretty crazy. Manu > DRob + Parker was becoming a standard take.

[Kori Ellis]

depends on what your term of overrated. are you saying fans are overrating him as a player now or his potential.

if it is his potential I would say not. he is a very sold iq knowledge if the game. He was learning the spurs system last year. he was injured and did not even get a full training camp in. without training camp it hurt him last year. also the playoffs are alot differnet pressure then the regular season. he never had been there before. jackson had been to the playoffs before. manu is not all that yet but I think he would have and still going to be the better player between sj and manu. you can not teach smarts. manu will bulk up and be able to finish better and get more respect from refs.

ducks

[smeagol]

Sounds like a thread where timvp was trying to rile up the rabid and quickly growing CoM. Early in the season you could only find one Argentine Spurs fan. By the end of the season, it was getting pretty crazy. Manu > DRob + Parker was becoming a standard take.

By the time of this thread, the only Argie CoM memeber was Fizzzar. The rest were native San Antonians.

Now look at your response to a CarnacTheMagnificent quote:


No need to be condescending. Yeah he's good and he'll get better, but the love you have for him is borderline scary. Manu is well respected around the league but he's looked upon as a good role player, not a savior.

He'll be a better version of Doug Christie. And that's not a bad thing.

I have a hunch you have changed your mind about Manu :lol

[smeagol]

Game over.

Kori's got all of them right. AHF's and addidas' are pretty easy to decipher.

Interesting to find a quote where ducks gives Manu props :lol

[DAF86]

Sounds like a thread where timvp was trying to rile up the rabid and quickly growing CoM. Early in the season you could only find one Argentine Spurs fan. By the end of the season, it was getting pretty crazy. Manu > DRob + Parker was becoming a standard take.

Everyone who said that manu is better than Robinson is because they only saw the last part of David's career.
But the other thing it's true, i'm not a parker hater like many guys here but i think there's no doubt that manu is better than tony

[Kori Ellis]

I'm not a parker hater like many guys here but i think there's no doubt that manu is better than tony

There's doubt. Anyway, they both are pretty damn good and I won't let you turn this into a Tony vs Manu thing. So just stop now.

But thing you are quoting actually meant that some posters thought that Manu was greater than David Robinson and Tony Parker combined back in 2003.

[DAF86]

There's doubt. Anyway, they both are pretty damn good and I won't let you turn this into a Tony vs Manu thing. So just stop now.

But thing you are quoting actually meant that some posters thought that Manu was greater than David Robinson and Tony Parker combined back in 2003.

oh my bad i thought that Timvp was saying that parker is better than manu

[timvp]

By the time of this thread, the only Argie CoM memeber was Fizzzar. The rest were native San Antonians.There were more Argies than just Fizzzar at the end of 2003.


Now look at your response to a CarnacTheMagnificent quote:

I have a hunch you have changed your mind about Manu :lol

First off, just link to the thread so people can read the quotes in context:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2737

Even the most rabid of Argie homers wouldn't have predicted a season like Manu is having this year. A better version of Doug Christie has been a good comparison for Manu's regular season output ... until this season. Even Pop used the exact same comparison (better version of Christie) when talking about Manu not too long ago.

Manu's rate of progression as a player has been stunning since 2003. In 2003, he was overrated by most Spurs fans because he was more style than substance. In the playoffs that year, he only had one good series out of four.

But since then, Manu has obviously improved greatly. I don't think anyone expected Manu to average 20 ppg and be a three-point assassin after watching his rookie year. Just like few Spurs fans expected Tony Parker to become a two-time All-Star and a Finals MVP after his rookie year.

The Spurs not only got lucky in getting both of these players, they've been fortunate regarding their year-to-year growth. But yeah, let's cherry-pick out of a five year old thread while ignoring most of the posts that were talking good about Manu :rolleyes

[ducks]

Game over.

Kori's got all of them right. AHF's and addidas' are pretty easy to decipher.

Interesting to find a quote where ducks gives Manu props :lol
see I have it in me :p:

[smeagol]

First off, just link to the thread so people can read the quotes in context:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2737


I was about to do it, right after the guessing was over. Otherwise, where would the fun be?



But yeah, let's cherry-pick out of a five year old thread while ignoring most of the posts that were talking good about Manu :rolleyes

Chill amigo. It was all done in the spirit of entertainment.

I find it funny to go back a couple of years and check what posters were predicting about Manu and Tony because, as you stated it, most people were wrong.

[timvp]

Those shooting percentages are too low. Even when he was struggling with his shot in the postseason, his three-point shot was good.

I'd say more like:

14 PPG, 4 RPG, 4 APG, 2.3 SPG, 44% FG, 37% 3PThat was pretty close to what Manu averaged in 2003-04.


It is going to be very exciting to follow Manu the next couple of seasons. He surely has special talent and will at the very least be fun to watch. Whether he turns out to be the star we all hope he'll be is up to him.Luckily he turned into that star.


Manu has proven to be a clutch player. Even when he was hurt, you could see it in him.

That was never in question.Wonder what GW says about his clutchness now . . .

[Kori Ellis]

... most people were wrong.

Hey, I was close. But Manu hasn't led the league in steals.

[DarrinS]

What's the point of bringing up 5 yr old posts?

[smeagol]

Manu's rate of progression as a player has been stunning since 2003. In 2003, he was overrated by most Spurs fans because he was more style than substance. In the playoffs that year, he only had one good series out of four.

But since then, Manu has obviously improved greatly. I don't think anyone expected Manu to average 20 ppg and be a three-point assassin after watching his rookie year. Just like few Spurs fans expected Tony Parker to become a two-time All-Star and a Finals MVP after his rookie year.

People who you claim in the first paragraph were overrating Manu in 2003, were probably right on the money if they "saw" a Manu in the future who could achieve what you describe in the second paragraph.

[smeagol]

What's the point of bringing up 5 yr old posts?

I find reading old threads extremely entertaining.

I will not get offended if you simply scroll down. :p:

[timvp]

People who you claim in the first paragraph were overrating Manu in 2003, were probably right on the money if they "saw" a Manu in the future who could achieve what you describe in the second paragraph.Overrating his 2003 production, not his future outlook.

[DarrinS]

I find reading old threads extremely entertaining.

I will not get offended if you simply scroll down. :p:



And most people thought Kwame Brown was going to be great. You never can tell.


Who the hell heard of Bret Favre in 1991?

[FromWayDowntown]

Can Manu qualify as a balla?

[SpursFanFirst]

One of the quotes is definetely from sequ :lol

I don't see the words "Manu Sucks" up there, so there can't be a quote from Sequ. :lol

[DAF86]

Even the most rabid of Argie homers wouldn't have predicted a season like Manu is having this year.

That's not true, every Argie that have watched manu through his career knows that manu is a star and knew that Manu would make it in the NBA. The difference is: in 2003 while you looked at him as just a rookie we looked at him as a superstar 'cause we knew what he's capable of doing. That's why we never doubt him.


A better version of Doug Christie has been a good comparison for Manu's regular season output ... until this season. Even Pop used the exact same comparison (better version of Christie) when talking about Manu not too long ago.

As a spur fan you know that stats don't mean anything specially in the regular season. The christie comparison could be slightly fair (for fans that didn't know anything about manu's career) for the first two seasons only.


Manu's rate of progression as a player has been stunning since 2003. In 2003, he was overrated by most Spurs fans because he was more style than substance.

Manu has never been more style than substance.

[Harry Callahan]

Both of these players would have been top five picks in the first round if NBA teams would have had a do over draft. It is almost comical. The Spurs were ahead of the curve and have benefitted greatly the last six or seven years.

SAS got Gino and TP at the 56th pick in 1999 and the 28th in 2001 respectively. Wow. Boston passed on TP three times and have (other than this year) been in the sewer since that time.

[DAF86]

And most people thought Kwame Brown was going to be great. You never can tell.


Who the hell heard of Bret Favre in 1991?

And don't forget about Tom Brady. But that's exactly why is funny

[urunobili]

Hey, I was close. But Manu hasn't led the league in steals.
i wish Pop challenges him to get that done next season or b4 he retires.. that should take away some of the hate he is getting as a poor defender.. lame on all of those... :depressed

[DAF86]

i wish Pop challenges him to get that done next season or b4 he retires.. that should take away some of the hate he is getting as a poor defender.. lame on all of those... :depressed

steals aren't a sign of a good defender... but i agree with you in the rest :clap

[Fizzzar]

Good old times...

I remember having a very heated argument with ghost cause he said that Terry and Crawford were better than Manu and the Spurs should make trade.

One thing that always made me laugh was that Adidas11 and Rascal were always there to defend ghost... it seemed like he was their idol or something... I think I never saw them disagree.

[JPB]

Right again lady!

It is interesting how people back then did not think Manu could average 20 ppg. Something he is achieving this year.

(I remember stating back in 2004 that I would be happy if he became an 18 / 5 / 5 kind of player).

Same thing happened for Tony. Funny.

That's what you can call good scouting.
I think RC or Presti will never get enough credit for "finding" them.

Fans are really lucky to be able to watch this team as it is and should think about that before bashing everybody asa spurs are struggling a bit.

[timvp]

That's not true, every Argie that have watched manu through his career knows that manu is a star and knew that Manu would make it in the NBA. The difference is: in 2003 while you looked at him as just a rookie we looked at him as a superstar 'cause we knew what he's capable of doing. That's why we never doubt him.It's easy being a Monday morning quarterback. Where was this take five years ago?


As a spur fan you know that stats don't mean anything specially in the regular season. The christie comparison could be slightly fair (for fans that didn't know anything about manu's career) for the first two seasons only.Better email that to Pop.


Manu has never been more style than substance.Can Manu walk on water?

[smeagol]

This thread was not intended to try to pick a fight.

Next time, I will look for an old thread about Tony. :toast

[ChumpDumper]

Quality jinx thread.

:tu