Question about the Clinched Playoff Spots...

[greens]

Lakers beat Dallas today. So now the Lakers record is 52-24. All the articles are saying that now the Lakers have clinched a playoff spot. However, the Spurs record is the same, 52-24. Yet, there are no articles saying that they have clinched a playoff spot yet. Also, I checked, both teams have the same number of games coming up.

So when do the Spurs officially clinch a spot?

[tp2021]

i think the next spurs win or GS loss...

[SequSpur]

if they would've won today, they were in, but no, they got blown out by a better team.

[greens]

i think the next spurs win or GS loss...


Oh, ok. Thanks for the info. I'm still a bit confused though about how Lakers/Spurs can have the exact same record, with one clinching the spot already...and the other one, not yet...

[crc21209]

Cuz the league sucks Laker dick, lol jk, I asked the same question in the Spurs/Jazz game-thread, I dont understand it either.

[san antonio spurs]

if they would've won today, they were in, but no, they got blown out by a better team.
then why all the crying and whining? :lol

[FlAVaK]

Just do the math:

Lakers and Spurs stand at 52-24 and Warriors stand at 46-30, all have 6 games left.
So, if Lakers or Spurs lose all their remaining games (the can´t do it both, because they face each other) and GS wins all 6, the records are the same.
If -and that`s a very big if- that would happpen, you must take a look at the tie-breakers:
Spurs and Lakers both split their season series with the Warriors 2-2, so this tie-breaker is tied too.

But the second tie-breaker is the record against WC-teams, IIRC.
Lakers stand at 32-14, Spurs at 29-17 and Warriors at 26-20.
All games left for those three are against other Western teams, so GS could also tie up with the Lakers in this catagory, but not with the Spurs!
Because for this tie-breaker to be considered, GS has to win all 6 remaining, and the Spurs would have to loose all 6, and then, the Warriors would win this tiebreaker and catch the Spurs...

So you see, there is a little difference between the Lakers and Spurs, and maybe LA and GS playing in the same division has something to do with it too.

I don`t know exactly how this tie-breaker-stuff continues, I guess with the division record and the home record...
But all this won´t happen anyways, so who really cares!
And maybe there is still somthing wrong, because YAHOO changed their standings, Lakers are not clinched any more:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/standings

[Allanon]

The Lakers are clinched....the 2nd tiebreaker is division. Lakers and GSW are in the same division so the Lakers get the automatic tiebreaker since they have a better division record. GSW can't tie with the Lakers and get a Playoff spot, they must have a better record but that is now mathematically impossible.

For the Spurs, they still have the mathematical possibility to have the exact same record as the Warriors. It would come down to tiebreakers.

GSW owns the first tiebreaker...head to head so they would be in, Spurs would be out.

"Magic Number" of 1. Spurs win or GSW loss clinches it for the Spurs.

But like Flavak says, it doesn't matter because Spurs are going to win at least 1 more game even with their eyes closed.

[BlackSwordsMan]

No if nuggets lost spurs clinch a spot

[Allanon]

No if nuggets lost spurs clinch a spot

Nuggets can still get a division leader spot and automatic top 4 seed in the Playoffs.

How do they affect the Spurs clinching a playoff spot?

[remingtonbo2001]

What if Denver or Utah led the division with 9th best record. How would that work out?

[Allanon]

Denver or Utah could be leading the NorthWest division from the 10th best record and one of them would still get into the Playoffs.

Every Division Winner gets a top 4 spot in the Playoffs no matter how bad they suck :D

[E20]

Spurs clinched a spot last night thanks to Denver losing.

[Bruno]

The Lakers are clinched....the 2nd tiebreaker is division. Lakers and GSW are in the same division so the Lakers get the automatic tiebreaker since they have a better division record. GSW can't tie with the Lakers and get a Playoff spot, they must have a better record but that is now mathematically impossible.


Your reasoning is wrong.
It's possible than more than two teams are tied with the same record.
I don't know if Lakers have clinched or not but it's more complicate than that.

[Allanon]

Spurs clinched a spot last night thanks to Denver losing.

What are you talking about?

[E20]

What are you talking about?
The Spurs clinched a spot last night in the playoffs because Denver lost. How do I know, I saw it on ESPN. :lol

[Allanon]

Your reasoning is wrong.
It's possible than more than two teams are tied with the same record.
I don't know if Lakers have clinched or not but it's more complicate than that.

No, it's as simple as that.

Right now, both teams can still end up with identical season records leading to a tie. 1 team makes it, one team doesn't.

#1 Tiebreaker is Head to head - the series is Even 2-2
#2 Tiebreaker is Division if the 2 teams are in the same divisions
Lakers 9-4
Warriors 8-5

That's it, Lakers own the tiebreaker so they've clinched a Playoff spot.

You can read about the tiebreakers here:
http://www.nba.com/statistics/playoff_picture.html

[E20]

LMAO Nevermind I'm wrong, I misread the thing on ESPN: it said Spurs will clinch playoff berth with a Denver Loss TODAY. my bad I didn't see it right.

[FlAVaK]

No and No

@Allanon: Division Records: Lakers 9-4, Warriors 8-5. So, in theory the Warriors can still catch the Lakers, because both have some games against division-rivals left!
So YAHOO is right, Lakers are not chlinched yet!!!

@E20: Denver has won its last game... And this whole Clinching-Discussion is about the current 9th seed GS catching Lakers or Spurs!
And because of everything said about those three teams records, Lakers and Spurs have not clinched a spot in the playoffs YET.

[Allanon]

The Spurs clinched a spot last night in the playoffs because Denver lost. How do I know, I saw it on ESPN. :lol

Are you smoking Crack? Denver hasn't played a game since Tuesday, and they won that one against the suns :D

[E20]

No and No

@Allanon: Division Records: Lakers 9-4, Warriors 8-5. So, in theory the Warriors can still catch the Lakers, because both have some games against division-rivals left!
So YAHOO is right, Lakers are not chlinched yet!!!

@E20: Denver has won its last game... And this whole Clinching-Discussion is about the current 9th seed GS catching Lakers or Spurs!
And because of everything said about those three teams records, Lakers and Spurs have not clinched a spot in the playoffs YET.
I know SPurs haven't clinched, I misread the footer on ESPN, it said with a DEN loss tonight SPurs can clinch Playoff spot.

[Bruno]

No, it's as simple as that.

Right now, both teams can still end up with identical season records leading to a tie. 1 team makes it, one team doesn't.

#1 Tiebreaker is Head to head - the series is Even 2-2
#2 Tiebreaker is Division if the 2 teams are in the same divisions
Lakers 9-4
Warriors 8-5

That's it, Lakers own the tiebreaker so they've clinched a Playoff spot.

You can read about the tiebreakers here:
http://www.nba.com/statistics/playoff_picture.html


No, that's no simple as that.

If a third team end up with the same record (52-30), the tiebreaker between Warriors and Lakers is meaningless.


And Lakers haven't even clinched the tie-breaker over GS as FlAVaK said.

It's possible that Lakers have clinched but your reasoning is wrong.

[Allanon]

No and No

@Allanon: Division Records: Lakers 9-4, Warriors 8-5. So, in theory the Warriors can still catch the Lakers, because both have some games against division-rivals left!
So YAHOO is right, Lakers are not chlinched yet!!!

No, you are wrong and Yahoo as usual is wrong in their stats. Check out ESPN and NBA and you'll see. Here's how it breaks down.

Lakers have 3 left with the division
Warriors have 3 left with the division

Lakers against division 7-2
Warriors against division 6-3

Lakers worst = 7-5 71% win record
GSW best = 6-6 50% win record

Lakers have clinched the a Playoff spot and have pretty much clinched the Division...it will be hard for Suns to catch up :D

[Allanon]

No, that's no simple as that.

If a third team end up with the same record (52-30), the tiebreaker between Warriors and Lakers is meaningless.


And Lakers haven't even clinched the tie-breaker over GS as FlAVaK said.

It's possible that Lakers have clinched but your reasoning is wrong.


Flavak is wrong...see my above post.

And the Lakers are clinched because they own the tiebreaker with the Warriors, no other team affects their Playoff possibility...it now comes down to seeding within the Playoffs, that's it.

Whether or not the Nuggets, Rockets, or Mavericks win or lose now, it doesn't affect the Lakers chances to be in the playoffs. GSW was the only one.

Right now, both the Warriors and Lakers can end up 52-30. So it's a tiebreaker situation

There's nothing magical about it.
1) Head to head - Both teams are 2-2 so ignore this rule
2) Against Division - Impossible for Warriors to have a better record against division, so FAIL right here.

That's it.

[td4mvp21]

Allanon is right I believe. The Lakers own the tiebreaker against the Warriors. So if the Warriors win the rest of their games and the Lakers lose the rest of their games, they will be tied at 52-30. The Lakers own the tiebreaker so they will get in the playoffs. That's why they clinched last night.

[ClingingMars]

Every Division Winner gets a top 4 spot in the Playoffs no matter how bad they suck :D

which is absolutely retarded, screw the divisions.

- Mars

[Bruno]

That's it.

You're plain wrong on your whole reasoning.

Lakers are 9-4 against their division, they will finish 9-7 against their divison if they lost the remaining games.
Warriors are 8-5 against their division, they will finish 11-5 against their division if they win the remaining games.

Now, it's more complicate because if Warriors win all games, Nuggets will finish 52-30 at best. It will be then a three team ties.

Again, maybe Lakers have clinched but you're just plain wrong.

[Allanon]

You're plain wrong on your whole reasoning.

Lakers are 9-4 against their division, they will finish 9-7 against their divison if they lost the remaining games.
Warriors are 8-5 against their division, they will finish 11-5 against their division if they win the remaining games.

Now, it's more complicate because if Warriors win all games, Nuggets will finish 52-30 at best. It will be then a three team ties.

Again, maybe Lakers have clinched but you're just plain wrong.

You are reading too much into this, it's not my reasoning, it's the NBA tiebreaker rules. You can read them yourself here:
http://www.nba.com/statistics/playoff_picture.html

it's as simple as the tiebreaker.

#1 Tiebreaker - Head to head which we know is tied so we have to go to #2 rule

#2 Tiebreaker - Against Division - THIS IS IT, this is the tiebreaker rule that clinches the Lakers.

Lakers are 7-2 against the division, not 9-4
Warriors are 6-3 against the division, not 8-5

So if the Lakers lost the rest of their division games, they are 7-5, 71%
If the Warriors won the rest of their games, they are 6-6, 50%

71% is better than 50% so the Lakers wins the "Against the Division" tiebreaker.

[E20]

NBA.com has the Lakers as clinched in the PO's. http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html, there is a X next to their name.

[Allanon]

You're plain wrong on your whole reasoning.

Now, it's more complicate because if Warriors win all games, Nuggets will finish 52-30 at best. It will be then a three team ties.

Why are you talking about the Nuggets? The Nuggets have NOTHING to do with whether the Lakers are in the Playoffs or NOT in the Playoffs.

What they do or don't do doesn't matter to the Lakers clinching a Playoff spot.

There are 8 Playoff spots, the Nuggets can't make the Lakers have the #9 spot.

The worst that can happen (for the Lakers) is Nuggets #7, Lakers #8.

[duncan228]

The rules, from '07 when they were changed:

http://www.nba.com/features/seedingprimer07.html

Playoff Seeding Primer

SECAUCUS, NJ, April 2, 2007 -- Confused by the new playoff seeding format? Were you confused by the old format?

Last season, much ado was made about the Spurs and Mavs, the teams with the two best records in the Western Conference, meeting in the Conference Semifinals because of the rule that gave the top three seeds to the division winners.

So, during the offseason, that rule was changed so that the two best teams in the conference would not face each other until the Conference Finals, even if they're in the same division.

As the regular season wraps up and some teams clinch playoff berths while others are eliminated, here's everything you need to know about how the playoff brackets are laid out.

The top four seeds will be the three division winners plus the team with the next best record. Those four will be ordered by record (and tiebreakers if needed), so it's possible that two teams in the same division could hold the top two spots, with the other two division winners at Nos. 3 and 4.

Seeds 5 through 8 are the next four teams according to record (and tiebreakers if needed).

First Round matchups are as follows:
1 vs. 8
4 vs. 5
2 vs. 7
3 vs. 6

Conference Semifinals matchups are as follows:
1-8 Winner vs. 4-5 Winner
2-7 Winner vs. 3-6 Winner

Homecourt advantage for any series is determined by record, not seed. So, it's possible that the 5 seed could have homecourt advantage over the 4, or that the 6 seed could have homecourt advantage over the 3.

Tiebreakers
(1) Head-to-head
(2) Division record (if the teams are in the same division)
(3) Conference record
(4) Record vs. Playoff teams, own conference
(5) Record vs. Playoff teams, other conference
(6) Net points, all games

[Bruno]

Lakers are 7-2 against the division, not 9-4
Warriors are 6-3 against the division, not 8-5

So if the Lakers lost the rest of their division games, they are 7-5, 71%
If the Warriors won the rest of their games, they are 6-6, 50%


Sorry for being harsh but you suck in math and/or logic.
You have also some reading troubles.

Go check nba.com standing and you will see Lakers at 9-4 against their division and Warriors at 8-5.

If Lakers lose their 3 last division conference, they will be 9-7.
If Warriors win their 3 last division conference, they will be 11-5.

[E20]

Sorry for being harsh but you suck in math and/or logic.
You have also some reading troubles.

Go check nba.com standing and you will see Lakers at 9-4 against their division and Warriors at 8-5.

If Lakers lose their 3 last division conference, they will be 9-7.
If Warriors win their 3 last division conference, they will be 11-5.
NBA.com also says they have clinched a playoff spot.

[Allanon]

Sorry for being harsh but you suck in math and/or logic.
You have also some reading troubles.

Go check nba.com standing and you will see Lakers at 9-4 against their division and Warriors at 8-5.

If Lakers lose their 3 last division conference, they will be 9-7.
If Warriors win their 3 last division conference, they will be 11-5.

Ah, I see the problem. You are including the 4 games against the Lakers and Warriors.

The rule is AGAINST the OTHER teams in the division, not against each other.. The #1 tiebreaker already counts the games with Lakers against GSW. You cannot count them twice. So you must subtract 2 wins and 2 losses from each team.

So Lakers have 9 division wins
- 2 wins against Warriors
=7 wins against rest of division

4 losses
-2 losses against Warriors
= 2 losses against rest of division

Warriors have 8-5 (minus 2 wins against Lakers) = 6 and 5 losses (minus 2 losses against Lakers) = 3. 6-3.

The Division Tiebreaker is against the OTHER teams in the Division, not against each other.

[Bruno]

Ah, I see the problem. You are including the 4 games against the Lakers and Warriors.

The rule is AGAINST the OTHER teams in the division, not against each other.. The #1 tiebreaker already counts the games against the Lakers/GSW. You cannot count them twice.

RIF


Better winning percentage against teams in own division (only if tied teams are in same division).

[E20]

Yahoo is saying they have clinched a PO spot: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/standings;_ylt=Arf._7wqQ4nfSiTDLcqxoCK8vLYF

[Bruno]

NBA.com also says they have clinched a playoff spot.

Did I say, Lakers haven't clinched a playoff spot ?

[E20]

Did I say, Lakers haven't clinched a playoff spot ?
How did they clinch that spot? What you are basically arguing over with Allanon is that if the Lakers lose all their games and Golden State, Denver win all their games, the Lakers will somehow have some complication, when they can't because they are already guranteed a Playoff spot regardless of what happens (they lose the remaining games and GS wins theirs). I don't get the argument. I think I agree with Allanons interpretation of the rule.

[E20]

Now, it's more complicate because if Warriors win all games, Nuggets will finish 52-30 at best. It will be then a three team ties.
? What will be complicated about that for the Lakers. They have already clinched a spot.

[Bruno]

The only way Lakers are tied with the team with the 9th seed is Lakers, Warriors and Nuggets ending in a three team tie at 52-30.

In this case Lakers will finish 7th because they have the tie breaker in the three team tied.

However, it could be more complicate if a 4th or 5th team end up with a 52-30 record.

[Bruno]

How did they clinch that spot?

Did I say that Lakers have clinched a playoff spot ?

[E20]

The only way Lakers are tied with the team with the 9th seed is Lakers, Warriors and Nuggets ending in a three team tie at 52-30.

In this case Lakers will finish 7th because they have the tie breaker in the three team tied.

However, it could be more complicate if a 4th or 5th team end up with a 52-30 record.
That's irrelevant for the Lakers as far as making the PO's because they have clinched a spot.

[E20]

Did I say that Lakers have clinched a playoff spot ?

Did I say that Lakers haven't clinched a playoff spot ?
So what is your main point here? :lol

[Allanon]

RIF

x-New Orleans
San Antonio
x-LA Lakers

x - Clinched playoff berth.

ESL :D

[Bruno]

So what is your main point here? :lol

:rolleyes

My point is that Allanon reasoning was wrong.


Let's give you an easier example.

Is Stallone a good actor ?

If someone say no because the sky is blue, it's wrong. Even if Stallone isn't a good actor.

[E20]

:rolleyes

My point is that Allanon reasoning was wrong.


Let's give you an easier example.

Is Stallone a good actor ?

If someone say no because the sky is blue, it's wrong. Even if Stallone isn't a good actor.
The Sky is actually black. Water is blue.

I thought the topic of the thread is teams clinching the PO's, not about what IF 15546 teams end up with a 52-30 record and as far as I see it the Lakers have clinched the PO's, we can forget about GS, Denver and everyother team because it doesn't matter for the Lakers as far as making the PO's or winning RS games, because they have made the PO's.

[E20]

:rolleyes

My point is that Allanon reasoning was wrong.


Let's give you an easier example.

Is Stallone a good actor ?

If someone say no because the sky is blue, it's wrong. Even if Stallone isn't a good actor.
Stallone was nominated for 2 Golden Globes and could have won if he stuck to playing dramatic roles, he felt it was more to h is liking for making action movies. He has one less Golden Globe then Al Pacino.

[Bruno]

That's irrelevant for the Lakers as far as making the PO's because they have clinched a spot.

Do you realize that the subject is why Lakers have clinched or not a playoff spot.
Your answer to that is they have clinched a playoff spot because they have clinched a playoff spot.
Unreal.

[E20]

Do you realize that the subject is why Lakers have clinched or not a playoff spot.
Your answer to that is they have clinched a playoff spot because they have clinched a playoff spot.
Unreal.
:wow Wow is that what we are arguing here? HOW have the Lakers clinched the PO spot? What waste of bandwith. LMAO

Here is the answer on how the Lakers have clinched a playoff spot: Because they won the neccssary games to do so.

/end of thread.

[Bruno]

:wow Wow is that what we are arguing here? HOW have the Lakers clinched the PO spot? What waste of bandwith. LMAO


I was just telling to a poster that his reasoning was wrong.
Then you enter in the conversation. If you thought it was pointless, you should have stayed away of that. Genius. :spin

[Allanon]

What waste of bandwith. LMAO
/end of thread.

I agree, I give up too, explaining this logic to Bruno is like explaining it to a rock.

NBA, ESPN are all wrong, Bruno is right but can't explain how :D

/end of thread

[Bruno]

Great, so I'm done arguing with a couple of guys who can't even read, count and have a basic reasoning.

[E20]

I thought the thread is if the Lakers have or have not clinched a spot, not whether how they have clinched. The latter is incredibly easy to answer: They won games.

So Bruno, you think the Lakers have not clinched a spot? Also, what is your main claim/point you are trying to prove here? Besides that Allanon's logic is wrong.

[Allanon]

Great, so I'm done arguing with a couple of guys who can't even read, count and have a basic reasoning.

You're a reasonable logical man who can read, count and have basic reasoning right? Not like us idiots who can't.

So please Master Bruno, just answer this:

1) Have the Lakers clinched a playoff seat?
2) If yes or no, why?

[Bruno]

Also, what is your main claim/point you are trying to prove here?Besides that Allanon's logic is wrong.

That's all I wanted to prove/say.

[FlAVaK]

Thank u Bruno for support, and thank u duncan228 for the rules.
Some guys take this way too serious, but - as mentioned - the should learn how to read and count before talkin about even unserious shit!

Bruno never said the Lakers are not clinched, that was just me... and yahoo.com, for some hours this evening. First they said Lakers are clinched, then not, now they are clinched again, with no further games played.

Everything is said about the rules, the numbers are there, it is kind of difficult, but read it, get you´re head straight, maybe get a calculator, and u see, there still is a chance, the Warriors can catch the Lakers, even if it is a very, very small one!

But probably it has to be considered, for the Lakers to miss the POs, not only GS has to catch them, but all the other teams currently ranking behind them (WC spots 4-8) too.
And because some of those teams face each other in the remaining RS it is impossible for the Lakers goin down to the 9th spot!

So, I´m finally convinced, the Lakers are in...

...and now let´s get back to the serious shit:

Beat Portland! And clinch it! :fro

GOSPURSGO!

[Allanon]

That's all I wanted to prove/say.

Correction:
"That's all I wanted to say." We're still all waiting on the proof part.

1) Have the Lakers clinched a playoff seat?
2) If yes or no, why?

[E20]

That's all I wanted to prove/say.
Okay then. But I'm still confused on why Denver and Golden State were even mentioned.

[Bruno]

So please Master Bruno, just answer this:

1) Have the Lakers clinched a playoff seat?
2) If yes or no, why?

First, my official title is great master.

Second, I don't know if Lakers have clinched a playoff spot or not. You had to look at a lot of different cases with teams tied at 52-30. If they have clinched, it's not for the reasons you said.

[Bruno]

Correction:
"That's all I wanted to say." We're still all waiting on the proof part.


You still don't understand why your reasoning was wrong ?

[Allanon]

I don't know....

Thank you Great Master. :toast

[Bruno]

Thank you Great Master. :toast

You're welcome.

[E20]

First, my official title is great master.

Second, I don't know if Lakers have clinched a playoff spot or not. You had to look at a lot of different cases with teams tied at 52-30. If they have clinched, it's not for the reasons you said.
You should know that the Lakers have clinched a PO spot because the two teams you keep on mentioning GS and Den play each other Thursday April 10th on TNT so one of them HAS TO LOSE guarnteeing the Lakers a spot no matter what. Unless if they both win that game.

[E20]

If you look at the West schedule a number of teams play each other that would affect the Lakers PO status further validating a Lakers spot in the PO's, because one of those teams has to lose.

[smeagol]

The answer canbe found in post # 56 (for those who are interested)

[E20]

The answer canbe found in post # 56 (for those who are interested)
Exactly.

[Bruno]

You should know that the Lakers have clinched a PO spot because the two teams you keep on mentioning GS and Den play each other Thursday April 10th on TNT so one of them HAS TO LOSE guarnteeing the Lakers a spot no matter what. Unless if they both win that game.

I know that.

Den has only 29 losses. If they lose this game, they can still finish with a 52-30 record.
If GS win all theirs games, they will finish with a 52-30 record.
If Lakers lose all theirs games, they will finish with a 52-30 record.

Then you will have a three team tie breaker. Lakers have that three team tie breaker. They will get the 7th seed if these three teams are tied are 52-30.

What I'm saying is that a 4th or 5th team could also end up with a 52-30 record. It will change the tie breaker. You had to look at all the combination possible. Maybe one could put Lakers at the 9th seed, maybe not.

[E20]

But probably it has to be considered, for the Lakers to miss the POs, not only GS has to catch them, but all the other teams currently ranking behind them (WC spots 4-8) too.
And because some of those teams face each other in the remaining RS it is impossible for the Lakers goin down to the 9th spot!
That's what I'm trying to say to Bruno. Even if Bruno is right, I have a better chance of winnign the lottery before that happens.

[Agloco]

It's....................finallly.................. ....over...............

Lock....................this...................... .....thread.............................please.... ....................

[anakha]

It's....................finallly.................. ....over...............

Lock....................this...................... .....thread.............................please.... ....................

Nice Captain Kirk impersonation.

KHAAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!!!! :lol

[Princess Pimp]

The only site having the Spurs with a plyoff berth is NBA.com noone has the Spurs clinching berth just yet...eat that!

[[email protected]]

They already clinch the playoff berth.

[Mister Sinister]

Nice Captain Kirk impersonation.

KHAAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!!!! :lol
RICHAAAARDS!!!!!