Luhm on the NBA: Don't cry for Ginobili

[greens]

I think this is a nice UTAH article about Manu...I didn't see it posted...Nice to see Manu getting props from other places...Plus includes nice quotes from Pop/Manu/Jacque Vaughn.


Luhm on the NBA: Don't cry for Ginobili
http://www.sltrib.com/sports/ci_8828278

For San Antonio's dynamo from Argentina, winning NBA championships is more important than gaining fans' adoration
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 04/06/2008 01:46:36 AM MDT

Jacque Vaughn spent his first four years in the NBA playing for Jazz coach Jerry Sloan and backing up John Stockton, who are two of the most competitive people I know.
That's why, when Vaughn speaks about competitiveness, I listen.
Prior to Friday night's Jazz-Spurs game, I asked Vaughn what makes San Antonio's Manu Ginobili such a unique talent - a Most Valuable Player-caliber talent who no one talks about when it comes to this year's MVP voting.
"He's one of the most competitive people I've ever been in a locker room with," Vaughn said. "That's the first thing that grabs your attention. . . . He's right there along with John - maybe even to a different degree when it comes to throwing his body around, sacrificing his body."
Anything else?
"Manu wants to take that big shot," Vaughn said. "He doesn't mind the consequences of what goes along with it, if you don't make it. I think that's another thing that sets him apart."
San Antonio coach Gregg Popovich mentions Ginobili in the same sentence as Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, when it comes to knowing what needs to be done to win.
"His ability to compete . . . every second he's on the court puts him in [that] category," Popovich said. "They all find ways to win. A lot of people think they are competitive, but they aren't competitive like Kobe, Michael and Manu."
Ginobili is from Bahia Blanca, Argentina, a major seaport southwest of Buenos Aires with a population of 275,000. He has two older brothers, who are also professional basketball players.
When I asked about the source of his competitiveness, Ginobili said, "Where I come from, I will say I went through some different and tough times. So being here now, I really appreciate all the things the NBA provides us. That would be the second [reason]: I enjoy being here.
"The first [reason] is, I just love the game. If I wasn't good enough to play in the NBA, I would be doing the same thing with my brothers and my friends - trying to win every competition I have with them. I am just that way."
Ginobili has played a vital role on three NBA championship teams. He averages a career-high 20 points per game this season and, as Popovich puts it, "We wouldn't be where we are without him."
Still, Ginobili has played in only one All-Star Game and likely won't crack the top five in this year's MVP voting.
"The players who compete against him, they respect him," Popovich said. "But fans? There's no way. They would rather dislike him. I think he makes people angry because he is just a dagger in the heart. . . . The same way Kobe is booed, I think fans would rather react that way than realize the genius of this guy. I wish that were different."
Popovich suggests Ginobili's nationality has something to do with the general lack of acceptance of him as one of the NBA's true superstars
"I think being a foreigner hurts him," Popovich said. "I don't know how to describe that academically. But I feel it in my gut."
Ginobili shrugs.
"I really don't know what other people think," he said. "I don't talk about that and I don't read so many papers. Maybe I am not [appreciated]. But I don't worry because I am on a championship team. I have three rings. So I really don't care. I know that further [along] in my career - or once I'm 50 years old - I'm going to look at my rings and not [worry] about whether somebody appreciates me. . . . I'm going to look at those rings and that will be the thing."
---
* STEVE
LUHM is The Tribune's national NBA writer and can be reached at [email protected].

[timvp]

Nice article. Putting MJ and Manu in the same sentence in terms of competitiveness is damn high praise. But I can't say I disagree with Pop.

Even when the Spurs have a bad game here or there in the regular season, Manu is the reason why I remain confident about this team come playoff time. Tim will be Tim. But if Manu can play at the level he has shown this season, the Spurs should be more than fine.

:smokin

[ChuckD]

I know that further [along] in my career - or once I'm 50 years old - I'm going to look at my rings and not [worry] about whether somebody appreciates me. . . . I'm going to look at those rings and that will be the thing.
Bingo. Nobody remembers contestants in the slam dunk, 3 point competition, or borderline All Stars for a year or two. But, if you consistently make it to The Show and walk away with all the marbles, people remember you. People remember champions.

[greens]

Nice article. Putting MJ and Manu in the same sentence in terms of competitiveness is damn high praise. But I can't say I disagree with Pop.

Even when the Spurs have a bad game here or there in the regular season, Manu is the reason why I remain confident about this team come playoff time. Tim will be Tim. But if Manu can play at the level he has shown this season, the Spurs should be more than fine.

:smokin


I agree. I really like how Pop praises Manu. And basically all of his teammates say that he's the most competitive player...now Vaughn says this...before it's Damon.

Do you agree with Pop that being a foreigner hurts Manu? That's why he doesn't get the accolades, like being invited to the All Star game...

[DAF86]

Yes, beign a foreigner hurts him a little.

Everybody talks about Manu's competitiveness, i would like to know how he is.
Do you think that he's the kind of person that if you talk 'bout something you did, he would talk about how he did the same but better? :lol ... I hope not but all these comments got me thinking.

[1Parker1]

I don't know if it's neccessarily because Manu is a "foreigner" that he's not as appreciated by fans. I do think playing in a small market like the Spurs and on a team that the media and many fans often label as "boring" doesn't help him. Plus, no matter what he does on the floor, people are always going to look at Duncan as part of the reason for Ginobili's success. Regardless of how true or untrue it may be.

I do think it's a joke he's only played in 1 All Star game.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

As much as I scoffed the shit out of Ginobili for his play during the early playoffs last year....there was no doubt in my mind come Game 4 of the finals that he was going to systematically annihilate the Cavs. His ruthlessness is very very underrated....and sometimes it works against him and his team....he's the ultimate gambler's player, the only player the opposition can laugh at for attempting something so stupid yet they were really scared shitless of his herky jerky shot going in.

[BonnerDynasty]

You don't see many players in the league completely take over a game with just their heart. Those games when Manu does it, are a treat to watch.

[tp2021]

^^^^^ and THATS why he is my favorite player.

[balli]

I'm not a Manu fan, but as an SLC man its nice to see a positive sentiment come from Steve Luhm. He spent the past two Sundays ago comparing Kobe to Barry Bonds while making sure we knew he was charged with a rape. I'm happy that at least 1 player in the league manages not to piss off Steve Luhm.

[oski1000]

Manu had to be named 2005 Final´s MVP. :clap :clap :clap

[wildbill2u]

I've spent some time lately watching Manu vids on YouTube. The competitiveness comes out in the way he plays in those highlight vids.

He is the most entertaining player in the league today.

[sassystriker]

I'm on the same page as Pop with this one. I do feel that the rebuff is due to Manu being a foreigner, an Argentine to be more specific. I remember this article, the author talked about us waiting for the next great white player, the next Larry Bird, and that we already have him in Manu but fact is that many of us do not seem to be able to expect and accept this all because Manu is not an American let alone he coming from a country that is totally unknown.

[amy020]

manu deserves,it's really unfair for him. He is no doubt a superstar.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

His heart will ask for more than what his body can give one of these days, and watching him deal with that will be tough, because it's his heart that makes him Manu.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

One of the few guys i never want to see traded from this team no matter what.

[balli]

I've spent some time lately watching Manu vids on YouTube. The competitiveness comes out in the way he plays in those highlight vids.

He is the most entertaining player in the league today.

Wrong. Say what you will about the man, but if we're talking entertainment...

mAslWCctfSM

[DAF86]

Wrong. Say what you will about the man, but if we're talking entertainment...

mAslWCctfSM

I can watch this with any Jordan, james, mcgrady, carter even richard jefferson vid.
What Manu does is unique. His passes, his "between the legs", "el latigo", i haven't seen anyother BB player do these kind of things as often as manu does.

[balli]

Are you kidding me? Manu is unique. It's true, Manu is highly entertaining and competitive. But man, don't compare Kobe to T-mac, Vince and RJ. Kobe is widely regarded as the best athletically. Probably even more so than Jordan (again, talking about athletic ability here). You're right, he may not be as unique as Manu, but there is not a more fluid, capable, competitive or entertaining athlete on the planet today than Kobe Bryant.

[DAF86]

Are you kidding me? Manu is unique. It's true, Manu is highly entertaining and competitive. But man, don't compare Kobe to T-mac, Vince and RJ. Kobe is widely regarded as the best athletically. Probably even more so than Jordan (again, talking about athletic ability here). You're right, he may not be as unique as Manu, but there is not a more fluid, capable, competitive or entertaining athlete on the planet today than Kobe Bryant.

We weren't talking 'bout athletic ability, we were talking 'bout entertainment. And for me there's nothing more entertaining that something that's cool but also rare. I was in no way comparing Kobe with the others as BB players.

[DAF86]

Watch this

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdana5gOt1M

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=4HV0b2Mi12M

[phxspurfan]

Nice videos...

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Great article, and rare props from a non-SA writer.

I'm always having conversations with other NBA fans in Oz and even when I show them what Manu does routinely (spectacular drives, tough step-backs, dagger threes, threaded passes, steals, blocks - the gamut of the game), they still can't admit his genius him!!! WTF!? Hell, I HATE Kobe, but I'll admit his brilliance any day because the evidence is there.

Most fans are blind to players not on their team.

[roycrikside]

I'm on the same page as Pop with this one. I do feel that the rebuff is due to Manu being a foreigner, an Argentine to be more specific. I remember this article, the author talked about us waiting for the next great white player, the next Larry Bird, and that we already have him in Manu but fact is that many of us do not seem to be able to expect and accept this all because Manu is not an American let alone he coming from a country that is totally unknown.

This it? (http://www.poundingtherock.com/story/2008/2/15/182618/419)

[DaDakota]

I wish Manu was on my Rockets. I would probably even trade Tmac for him....



DD

[E20]

I ROFL'd Kobe Bryant LORD OF DESTRUCTION

[stretch]

even though he gets on my nerves when Dallas is playing against him, i have nothing but respect for the guy. he is as competitive as it gets, has incredible heart, and plays his ass off night in and night out. Ginobili is a fucking stud. i used to think he fed a lot off of Duncan, as Parker does IMO, but the more i watched him, he amazes me with his creativity and akwardness. He is simply a playmaker, despite not being the most talented guy out there, he finds ways to make it work.

[DAF86]

I wish Manu was on my Rockets. I would probably even trade Tmac for him....



DD

But we wouldn't, we allready gave you Scola. We aren't giving any more gifts. :madrun

[balli]

even though he gets on my nerves when Dallas is playing against him, i have nothing but respect for the guy. he is as competitive as it gets, has incredible heart, and plays his ass off night in and night out. Ginobili is a fucking stud. i used to think he fed a lot off of Duncan, as Parker does IMO, but the more i watched him, he amazes me with his creativity and akwardness. He is simply a playmaker, despite not being the most talented guy out there, he finds ways to make it work.

I think he gets on all of the oppositions nerves, but yeah you have to hand it to him; He's a hell of an offensive player. On the other hand, his flopping and whining is out of control. I'd respect him a lot more if I didn't think he was a guy that falls down on purpose to get calls and then crys when they don't get called. That's what cheaters and girls do.

And back to the Kobe vs. Ginobili thing. I'm not going to try to say conclusively who is more entertaining. That's a pretty abstract concept to measure and I guess it just comes down to personal preference. They are both immensely fun to watch. I will say this though, Ginobili does a lot of things with the ball that Kobe Bryant doesn't do. Kobe does a lot of things with the ball that Ginobili couldn't do.

[sassystriker]

This it? (http://www.poundingtherock.com/story/2008/2/15/182618/419)

Nope. It wasn't from PtR. I couldn't really remember where I've read it but I'm pretty sure it wasn't that article 'coz I do remember having read it last year.

[DAF86]

I think he gets on all of the oppositions nerves, but yeah you have to hand it to him; He's a hell of an offensive player. On the other hand, his flopping and whining is out of control. I'd respect him a lot more if I didn't think he was a guy that falls down on purpose to get calls and then crys when they don't get called. That's what cheaters and girls do.

And back to the Kobe vs. Ginobili thing. I'm not going to try to say conclusively who is more entertaining. That's a pretty abstract concept to measure and I guess it just comes down to personal preference. They are both immensely fun to watch. I will say this though, Ginobili does a lot of things with the ball that Kobe Bryant doesn't do. Kobe does a lot of things with the ball that Ginobili couldn't do.

Agree with the last part but if you want to talk 'bout whining what 'bout the NBA leader in T's.

[balli]

if you want to talk 'bout whining what 'bout the NBA leader in T's.

Point conceded.

Although, Kobe doesn't whine with his arms out at his sides and the patented Spurs look on his face like it's impossible that he could have commited an infraction.

Instead, kobe gets pissed as fuck and screams, "Do your fucking job," to the refs.

Both of them bitch. Kobe does it like a man.

[DaDakota]

But we wouldn't, we allready gave you Scola. We aren't giving any more gifts. :madrun

LOL - but we are still paying for Jackie Butler, and will next year too.

:D

DD

[spurschick]

:toast :lobt: :makeout

[temujin]

In the WORST game of his career, Ginobili went 0-8 and was scoreless until the final minute of play.
It was G3 of the 07 Finals.
The ONLY close game of the series.

He then scored 3 FTs.

His team won.

By 3 (three) points.

I don't think there is any better description for what Manu Ginobili represents on a basketball court.

Speaking personally, watching this guy on Monday night reruns of Virtus basketball games got me involved in pro basketball again.
In the first game, I remember thinking "I need to change this TV set, it' just can't be what I think I jus saw. It must be something in the TV set, it's too old.
And I hate Virtus, but this guy was beyond and above any of that.
This argentinian guy is a unique blend of competitiveness, mental and physical toughness, sportmanship, BB IQ and creativeness.

[DAF86]

In the WORST game of his career, Ginobili went 0-8 and was scoreless until the final minute of play.
It was G3 of the 07 Finals.
The ONLY close game of the series.

He then scored 3 FTs.

His team won.

By 3 (three) points.

I don't think there is any better description for what Manu Ginobili represents on a basketball court.

Speaking personally, watching this guy on Monday night reruns of Virtus basketball games got me involved in pro basketball again.
In the first game, I remember thinking "I need to change this TV set, it' just can't be what I think I jus saw. It must be something in the TV set, it's too old.
And I hate Virtus, but this guy was beyond and above any of that.
This argentinian guy is a unique blend of competitiveness, mental and physical toughness, sportmanship, BB IQ and creativeness.

You forgot to say that those 3 points were the Spurs last 3 points.

[manubili]

Entertainment can come from different sources. Manu isn't Kobe, we all know that. I think that what makes Ginobili special is his "dramatic" game. He has it all to be a hero: a skinny boy, talented but not too strong or too athletic, and insanely clutch.
It's like a sports movie main character, they are never the best one. But they have the heart to win, doesn't matter what. And he has proven it A LOT of times.
That's why I love the guy.

[oski1000]

Manu would be MVP without Tony P. :spin :spin

[DAF86]

Manu would be MVP without Tony P. :spin :spin

:wtf :wtf :wtf :wtf :wtf :wtf :wtf :wtf :wtf

[balli]

Yeah, I was going to say? ^