Pop Damn Four Down

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:pctoss

[ChumpDumper]

Countdown to Walton.

[T Park]

countdown to another "This loss is on Pop" thread.

[ChumpDumper]

He sure didn't help with the T.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Tpark, get off it.

The team played like shit tonight. Popovich thinking that we just had to run 4down one more time (it's a new play, it takes the guys time ya know) before it'd start working made it even worse.

The only guy who was on tonight was Parker. He got what, two shots in the fourth quarter tonight, maybe three touches? How many did captain 6-18 TD get?

Spare me the "Pop never fucks up" holier than thou bullshit, and answer me why your daddy Pop feels that a guy needs more touches down the stretch when he's 6-18 on the night and the entirety of the opposing defense is geared on shutting said individual down.

I don't care if we go down in flames, I just want to see Pop unleash the reigns on the offense, instead of pulling back so hard in tight games that they choke on 4down.

[T Park]

your daddy Pop

with stuff like this, who would doubt he goes to A&M showing such intelligence.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well, next time you show any intelligence on this board, let me know, it'll be the first.

Jesus Christ TPark, take out that comment then, address the rest of the post. You can't, because one you don't know shit about basketball, and two you won't ever admit Pop fucks up, unless it's something mundane and obvious like taking out Rasho when he's having a good game, or wondering why Barry gets pulled when he's got four threes on the night.

Basketball's a lot deeper than riding the hot hand, and for some weird ass reason you enjoy watching Pop ride Duncan's cold hand on nights like tonight.

If Parker, Manu, Barry, or everyone's favorite whipping boy was 6-18 on the night and Pop continuously fed them the ball, you'd be going apeshit, but Pop does it and he's a good coach.

With logic like that, I can't help but think you're related.

[timvp]

Pop can't coach in Houston. He didn't rest Parker early enough in the second half so that by the time the fourth quarter came, Parker had to rest too much. He had Barry out there who, other than his three, was a waste. His brother schooled his azz. Beno played too long when he couldn't hit a jumper. The bigman rotation didn't make any sense. And to top it off, the technical was just stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

I think Horry is hurt. Malik wouldn't have seen the floor otherwise.

[T Park]

Manu,

wittle tough to shoot from the bench.


The TEAM, shot 32%.

the TEAM.

If Pop had a hand in that, please show me how.

[T Park]

Barry out there who, other than his three


Now now, Aggie will chastise you for critisizing his best buddy Barry.

[timvp]

Barry played scared.

His brother wanted the win.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If Pop had a hand in that, please show me how.

The whole title of this post is about how he had a hand in it, are you that dense?

For quarters 2-4, other than Tony's third quarter spurt, we ran 4down almost exclusively, and every single time it was run from the right low block.

The entire Houston defense was geared to stop that set, and they brought a different look and the double from a different spot every time down, and kicked our asses. We shot 32% exactly because we ran the same set and ran it into the teeth of the opponent's defense every damn time.

Just once, ONCE, I'd like to see you admit that maybe we should do something different on offense. But I guess you enjoyed watching LA embarrass us three times. I guess you enjoy losses like tonight where we couldn't break 100 if we played 100 minutes of basketball, all because of your poppa Pop thinking 4down is the greatest set in the history of mankind because it won us a title 6 years ago.

[T Park]

Just once, ONCE, I'd like to see you admit that maybe we should do something different on offense

Yes, cause, every game, every night, thats all they run.


Amazing, you werent here after the Dallas win, to praise Pop's offense.

But, your here tonight to critisize the Offense on a loss.

Amazingly consistent.


Barry played scared again?? What a suprise.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yes, I'm consistent. So are the Spurs when Tim goes 6-18. Too much 4down.

Sorry I wasn't here for the Dallas game, I had other priorities (you know, a life and all).

TPark, this conversation isn't about the Dallas game, it is about the game tonight. Did you even watch, or just log on to defend dear old dad?

Barry played scared? So what. So did Duncan, Pop still gave him the ball on every poessession of the fourth quarter but three.

[boutons]

"after the Dallas win"

The Dallas win was ugly as shit. Spurs blew a late big lead, let DAL get back in, DAL scores 29 pts in 4th qtr. Spurs win by the skin of their teeth.

[T Park]

So what


lol, sorry to critisize your man barry.


Man you guys must be related you defend him all the time.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It would figure. I guess you're whipped on the 4down argument, so you've gotta piggyback on timvp's take on Barry tonight to try and find an argument to win.

Who's defending him? He had the second best shooting night on the Spurs tonight. If you're gonna rake him over the coals, where's the criticism for Duncan, or for Pop putting Tim in the same position to fail all night long?

[T Park]

Where is the critique for the TEAM shooting bad as well.

???

[Marcus Garvey]

http://www.boomspeed.com/sweetc/Tpark50.jpg

TPark should make his paper worth a damn before he runs his fat mark mouth again.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If we were running the motion, or running any plays for other players, I'd criticize them more heavily for their shooting.

4down, when run extensively, has made every Spur playing within it look like shit for five years running, why would it change now? It's so easy to defend, not only to make life hell for Duncan but to zone the rest of his teammates so that the defenders are only a step, maybe two at most, away from defending any other shots.

In short, it's the playbook, stupid.

[T Park]

If we were running the motion, or running any plays for other players, I'd criticize them more heavily for their shooting.



of course.

The players missing wide open shots are not there fault.

How silly of us to think opposite of that.


Thanks for talking down to us some more.

[T Park]

TPark should make his paper worth a damn before he runs his fat mark mouth again


hmm, nice.

Very intelligent post there.

I see Spursfan is back.


Add another name to the ignore list.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

How silly of us to think opposite of that.

You haven't brought any thoughts on this one, just that anyone who criticizes anything about this team, especially it's coach, is wrong. But you are always right. Just like Pop. Things don't work out, make a few trades, waive a few guys, spread some stories about how they were locker room cancers, and go find some new guys to run the same offensive sets with the same results.

Jesus H. Christ Tpark,

You don't get it. Or don't want to admit it. Either way, just shut up.

[Marcus Garvey]

Oh no Mr. Big Man has spoken. Such a big time player but has to be forced to cough up a five spot. Perhaps you and Duff McCartney can arm wrestle for the title of the forum's worst freeloader.

[GoSpurs21]

:pctossPop was wrong he needs to realize that Tim cant carry Yao's and J Howard's jocks. Have some fucking pride Duncan, you're making $14M.

Pop can't coach in Houston. He didn't rest Parker early enough in the second half so that by the time the fourth quarter came, Parker had to rest too much. He had Barry out there who, other than his three, was a waste. His brother schooled his azz. Beno played too long when he couldn't hit a jumper. The bigman rotation didn't make any sense. And to top it off, the technical was just stupid.Isnt it funny that you convienently forgot to mention that Tim Duncan looked about as scared as Barry. Why is it that everyone can slam just about everyone else on the team but then walk around like egg shells about Tim Duncan. He makes fucking $14M a year and yet he's not accountable. David Robinson had more pride in his little finger. Tim is starting to look like a premadonna, and everyone is scared that if the great Tim Duncan is upset then the sky will fall. If Duncan is injuried then he needs to admit it and get some rest, overwise he needs to man up and stop being such a fucking pussy.

[Guru of Nothing]

Most people (living north of the Equator) hate January because it's cold.

[taruky]

Oh yeah, Pop sucks :rolleyes . The bitches pull out their lipstick.

[smeagol]

Oh yeah, Pop sucks :rolleyes . The bitches pull out their lipstick.
Hi there Taruky, wassup?

[Useruser666]

Pop was wrong he needs to realize that Tim cant carry Yao's and J Howard's jocks. Have some fucking pride Duncan, you're making $14M.
Isnt it funny that you convienently forgot to mention that Tim Duncan looked about as scared as Barry. Why is it that everyone can slam just about everyone else on the team but then walk around like egg shells about Tim Duncan. He makes fucking $14M a year and yet he's not accountable. David Robinson had more pride in his little finger. Tim is starting to look like a premadonna, and everyone is scared that if the great Tim Duncan is upset then the sky will fall. If Duncan is injuried then he needs to admit it and get some rest, overwise he needs to man up and stop being such a fucking pussy.

Here is the second post of BS from you. What do want from Tim? He is gettting rest. Notice that by his minutes this year? Notice when the game is close he plays more? Gee maybe it's not too late to trade him for Juwan A'man Howard? $14 mil a year? Why don't you take a look at what Allan Houston is making in New York.

[GoSpurs21]

I want Tim to prove that he is better than Yao and Howard. I want Tim to play like the MVP the way he used to in big games not just against leastern conference fodder. You can call my post BS all you want Duncan fan. I wants whats best for the Spurs. I'm sorry if you and the other Duncan is flawless folks cant handle some well deserved Duncan critizism.

I am not suggesting a trade. But of course instead of addressing the real issue (Duncan sleep walking for long stretches of the games), you deflect it to who do we trade Tim to. While you may accept loses (especially the 4 game sweep after being up 2-0) I do not. I love Tim as much as anybody, but I will not make excuses for him and ignore the facts like others choose to. Excuse me for having more faith in the rest of the Spurs players and coaching staff. Unlike most in this forum, I do not think the championship rest soley on Tim Duncans shoulders. I think there is enough talent on this team to win it with his help. All I am asking is that if Tim is getting the best rest of his career, and he is not tired, sick or injuried, it would be nice to see him put the team on his back in games like last night.

Here's a question: When was the last time Tim took a struggling Spurs team on his back and willed the Spurs to a win? I cant seem to recall a game this year like that. How is that possible?

[Useruser666]

I want Tim to prove that he is better than Yao and Howard. I want Tim to play like the MVP the way he used to in big games not just against leastern conference fodder. You can call my post BS all you want Duncan fan. I wants whats best for the Spurs. I'm sorry if you and the other Duncan is flawless folks cant handle some well deserved Duncan critizism.

I am not suggesting a trade. But of course instead of addressing the real issue (Duncan sleep walking for long stretches of the games), you deflect it to who do we trade Tim to. While you may accept loses (especially the 4 game sweep after being up 2-0) I do not. I love Tim as much as anybody, but I will not make excuses for him and ignore the facts like others choose to. Excuse me for having more faith in the rest of the Spurs players and coaching staff. Unlike most in this forum, I do not think the championship rest soley on Tim Duncans shoulders. I think there is enough talent on this team to win it with his help. All I am asking is that if Tim is getting the best rest of his career, and he is not tired, sick or injuried, it would be nice to see him put the team on his back in games like last night.

Here's a question: When was the last time Tim took a struggling Spurs team on his back and willed the Spurs to a win? I cant seem to recall a game this year like that. How is that possible?

Oh now you want to trade Duncan? That is the stupidest thing I have heard here in a long time, and I go into the politics forum.

[GoSpurs21]

Oh now you want to trade Duncan? That is the stupidest thing I have heard here in a long time, and I go into the politics forum.

Gee maybe it's not too late to trade him for Juwan A'man Howard? $14 mil a year? Why don't you take a look at what Allan Houston is making in New York.You're the one mentioning trade. I was responding to you deflecting the question. You still havent answered the question: When was the last time Tim took a struggling Spurs team on his back and opposed his will on the other team enabling the Spurs to win (this season)?

[TwoHandJam]

You're the one mentioning trade. I was responding to you deflecting the question. You still havent answered the question: When was the last time Tim took a struggling Spurs team on his back and opposed his will on the other team enabling the Spurs to win (this season)?
He can't answer you because he knows the answer doesn't support his argument. I am in agreement with you 100% though. I think he's injured or sick and isn't being responsible enough to tell Pop the extent of it. I wish we could just get to the bottom of what's wrong with him because I certainly haven't seen the 2 time MVP in quite some time.

[GoSpurs21]

He can't answer you because he knows the answer doesn't support his argument. I am in agreement with you 100% though. I think he's injured or sick and isn't being responsible enough to tell Pop the extent of it. I wish we could just get to the bottom of what's wrong with him because I certainly haven't seen the 2 time MVP in quite some time.Its refreshing to see some here arent blind when it comes to Duncan's struggles.

[Useruser666]

You're the one mentioning trade. I was responding to you deflecting the question. You still havent answered the question: When was the last time Tim took a struggling Spurs team on his back and opposed his will on the other team enabling the Spurs to win (this season)?

Every game Tim does as much as he can to win a game. Why do think Pop is limiting his minutes? Because we want Tim healthy and able to play at 110% in the playoffs. If you want I'm sure can play Phoenix minutes and pull KG numbers every day. But when it comes time to perform in the playoffs there won't be anything left. Tim doesn't have to play every minute of every game and still the Spurs can win. You question why he doesn't put the team on his back and then in the same breath you say he should take time off because the team is so good without him. Which way do you want it?

[SpursWoman]

He can't answer you because he knows the answer doesn't support his argument. I am in agreement with you 100% though. I think he's injured or sick and isn't being responsible enough to tell Pop the extent of it. I wish we could just get to the bottom of what's wrong with him because I certainly haven't seen the 2 time MVP in quite some time.


He hadn't answered because he was busy doing other things. :)



He doesn't have to carry this team on his back as much as he's had to in the past because there is a lot more talent than before....they have the ability to win without him carrying the full load.

How is this a bad thing?

[GoSpurs21]

again why is it so hard to conprehend what I am asking? (It's really a simple concept)

1) if Tim is hurt, tired or whatever. Why not just sit him out a few games instead of risking further injury, sickness or whatever? Especially if the Spurs are going write the games off (which is what it looked like last night). Why wouldn't this be good for the Spurs (for Tim to take a night off the court)?

2) if Tim is not hurt (this only applies if the #1 is not the case since no one seems to be enlightning the fans as why Duncan play has been less than par lately) then does he still have what it takes to put the team on his back and oppose his will on the other team enabling the Spurs to win games like last night. If he does not have what it takes to put the team on his back, then will he ever have what it takes again? What does Tim, Pop, Amy or the coaching staff need to work on to help Tim get back to the MVP form he once displayed?

I dont think these questions are unreasonable to discuss. Is asking what's wrong with Tim Duncan an off limits question?

Yes, the Spurs have the best record that they have ever had at this point of the season. How many times have the Spurs had the best record and still lost in the playoffs. I guess I shouldn't worry so much since the lakers aren't a threat to the Spurs success. I am not saying that Tim needs to carry the load every game. If he could carry the Spurs one game a month (only when needed) I think he would be in shape to do it in the playoffs when it will be required of Tim.

[ChumpDumper]

1) He's not.

2) He will.

That was easy.

[pjjrfan]

I still think this game was lost in the 2nd qtr. when Tony drove into the middle of the lane like 5 or 6 times in a row and came away with 2 fts, a couple of to's and at least 2 or 3 bad shots that had no chance of going in and no assists. That streach led to the Rockets cutting into that big lead that the Spurs had and basically setting the tempo for the rest of the game. Which was the loss of the Spur's offensive movement. Yes, TD could have salvaged the game I suppose if he had been his all-star self, but then again it's still a team sport and the rest of the guys have to carry their weight.

The way I look at it, Tony has to dictate what the tempo of the game is, he lost it in the 2nd qtr and although he played well in the 3rd, I think his play took everyone else out of their rythems. Then everyone just choked in the 4th. This things happen, still 30-9 is nothing to sneeze at, and I sure wouldn't start panicking just yet. What worries me more than Tim's play is the failure of guys to take open shots with the game on the line or close, because TD is still drawing defenders like flies and guys are getting good looks, last night no one wanted to pull the trigger.

[Useruser666]

Sorry I was too busy to answer your questions GoSpurs. It's not a topic that's taboo, but I just think calling out Duncan is ridiculous right now. Maybe we should try and understand that Duncan is not KG in trying to rack up huge stat numbers. Maybe we should understand that in a game where the entire team is shooting abysmally one person can't just win it. Maybe TD is not the MVP this year. Those are all fine questions to ask. But your calling out TD when there were 8 other reasons that come before the difference in his performance should be questioned. The glaring fact that no other Spur was hitting a single shot should tell you something about where the fault should be placed. No one, including Duncan was hitting. When that happens things are just not going to go your way.

I honestly believe that Duncan does have some sort of nagging injury or was weakened from being sick. I think that has been the whole point of Pop not playing him as much as last season. In games where the Spurs are blowing the other team out Duncan gets even more rest. This lowers his overall numbers by a great deal since the Spurs have had such a great margin of victory this year. I don't think Duncan should sit out just because he has 3 less points or 2 less rebounds than his season averages. There are 29 other teams in the NBA that would to have a guy that can put up those numbers nightly. Taking Duncan completely out will ruin chemistry just before the Spurs make their annual run into the playoffs. I trust in Duncan and Pop to guard against anything that might injure Duncan any further.


Poor performances:
Manu (injured) 6 points 3 rebounds
Bowen 3 points 5 redbounds
Rasho 3 points 5 rebounds 1 blocked shot
Beno 4 points(2/7)
Horry 2 points
Brown 2 (1-4) points

So-so performances:
Barry 8 points 2 rebounds
Duncan 18 points(7-19 with the desperation shot)
(4-6 free throws) 12 rebounds


Good performances:
Parker 21 points 3 rebounds 6 assists

No one else had more than 10 minutes so I'm leaving them out.

The Spurs were also out rebounded 49-39 which was a major difference in the game.

[san antonio spurs]

Spare me the "Pop never fucks up" holier than thou bullshit, and answer me why your daddy Pop feels that a guy needs more touches down the stretch when he's 6-18 on the night and the entirety of the opposing defense is geared on shutting said individual down.
I don't care if we go down in flames, I just want to see Pop unleash the reigns on the offense, instead of pulling back so hard in tight games that they choke on 4down.

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed"
michael jordan

if u don't understand now why pop keep trusting and sending the ball to tim duncan(2MVP season,2MVP finals) when the guyz are having an off night offensively,what do u know about basketball???
________
Vaporizer Vidoes (http://vaporizers.tv/)

[SPARKY]

Since when did Tim Duncan in the post become a bad thing?

[boutons]

"Tim Duncan in the post become a bad thing"

.... when he's 2bl teamed, defense sagging, fronted, having bad game, getting neutralized by an equal or better defender.

... when stopping Tim is stopping the entire, supposedly deep, capable, experienced
team.

[Phenomanul]

He hadn't answered because he was busy doing other things. :)



Under the right context.... That's pretty funny SW.... :lmao

[SpursWoman]

:nerd

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

if u don't understand now why pop keep trusting and sending the ball to tim duncan(2MVP season,2MVP finals) when the guyz are having an off night offensively,what do u know about basketball???

If Duncan had half the killer instinct Jordan had, we'd probably never lose a game. I'm sorry, Tim's great and all, but when teams get physical with Tim, he pusses out. When teams got physical with Jordan, he went off for 50.

You can't compare the two, because Duncan is not in the league Jordan was as a leader or a competitor.

[Solid D]

I want Tim to prove that he is better than Yao and Howard. I want Tim to play like the MVP the way he used to in big games not just against leastern conference fodder. You can call my post BS all you want Duncan fan. I wants whats best for the Spurs. I'm sorry if you and the other Duncan is flawless folks cant handle some well deserved Duncan critizism.

I am not suggesting a trade. But of course instead of addressing the real issue (Duncan sleep walking for long stretches of the games), you deflect it to who do we trade Tim to. While you may accept loses (especially the 4 game sweep after being up 2-0) I do not. I love Tim as much as anybody, but I will not make excuses for him and ignore the facts like others choose to. Excuse me for having more faith in the rest of the Spurs players and coaching staff. Unlike most in this forum, I do not think the championship rest soley on Tim Duncans shoulders. I think there is enough talent on this team to win it with his help. All I am asking is that if Tim is getting the best rest of his career, and he is not tired, sick or injuried, it would be nice to see him put the team on his back in games like last night.

Here's a question: When was the last time Tim took a struggling Spurs team on his back and willed the Spurs to a win? I cant seem to recall a game this year like that. How is that possible?

[T Park]

lol^

[Useruser666]

:rollin

(Although I do admit going back and counting the "I's" in my posts. :lol )