Legal type question.........

[Ballcox]

This is kind of involved, but I'll try to make it quick and to the point.

We had a Phillips big screen tv, it began having problems and we went back and forth with Phillips for several months before this thing was resolved. They finally agreed to do what they call a rapid replacement where they send a delivery company out to remove our old Phillps tv and replace with a new 52inch flat screen/LCD tv.

Ok, the first order somehow never got picked up from the Phillips warehouse se we had to re-order the tv all over again. The 2nd time the new tv gets delivered (last week), but the guy said he had no orders to pick up the old tv.

I think, well I'll just put the old tv up in the bedroom, still has a good picture-not a bad thing. Meanwhile I set up the new tv in the living room, don't think anything more about it.

Then, Monday this week I get a call from a different delivery company and they're saying they have my new 52inch flat screen ready for delivery and they'll pick up the old tv. I stay quiet about already having a new tv and tell them to come on out and deliver this one and pick up the old tv.

So, yesterday they come out, pick up the old tv and deliver yet ANOTHER 52 inch flat screen, same make and model as the one delivered last week by a different shipping company. Now I've got two 52 inch tv's, one still all packaged in the box it came in.

My question is, can I get in trouble here? I know the tv delivered this week was most likely the first tv that Phillips thought had been misplaced, thus the need for a second order. Do you think they will follow up on this? Should I wait and see if they call?

I'm really in a quandry here because I consider myself to be an honest person, I try to do the right thing, and I'm thinking I should just tell them they made a mistake. On the other hand I think it's their mistake, why is it wrong if I benefit from that mistake? Additionally, they really put me through the ringer on this thing when it was their product that didn't work in the first place.

Any advice, legal or otherwise is appreciated.

[CosmicCowboy]

Strictly from a legal standpoint, you don't have to worry about criminal charges and it's very unlikely that even if they figure out they screwed up that they would pursue the issue in civil court if you denied getting the second TV.











On the other hand, you are clearly going directly to hell.

[sa_butta]

I wouldnt even worry about it, just dont go off and sell one of them right away. Use them both if you can and if they want, they will arrange to have one picked up. No harm no foul.

Enjoy your two new TVs

[maxpower]

If space is not an issue...just hold on to it for a while(packed). Give it a couple of months then do with as you please.

[BacktoBasics]

Its theft plain and simple. If they can prove that you do in fact have both TVs or there is proof of a double delivery they can file theft charges.

Doubtful it will happen and the burden of both TVs actually being there are on them. Now if you signed the delivery or order forms each time they made a trip to your place you're pretty much caught. If the delivery guys came in and did their thing and you signed nothing its going to be tough to prove.

So the real question is "did you sign something at the times of delivery"? Is there a paper trail?

Sometimes in life you get a little gift. Enjoy it because you deserve it. I'm sure you've been fucked plenty of times at your expense. This is life just evening out for you.

[Ballcox]

^That's kind of the way I feel about it Basics, I know for a fact I've gotten fucked over a number of times in life while doing the right thing. At the same time I continue to feel guilty about this situation and wonder if I'm doing the right or wrong thing? I don't even know if that makes sense.

The other thing with a paper trail is that the 2 tv's were delivered by different shipping companies, with me signing for the first one and my wife signing for the second. We went over it last night and came up with some of the thoughts/advice mentioned above.

[CuckingFunt]

^That's kind of the way I feel about it Basics, I know for a fact I've gotten fucked over a number of times in life while doing the right thing. At the same time I continue to feel guilty about this situation and wonder if I'm doing the right or wrong thing? I don't even know if that makes sense.

The other thing with a paper trail is that the 2 tv's were delivered by different shipping companies, with me signing for the first one and my wife signing for the second. We went over it last night and came up with some of the thoughts/advice mentioned above.Since you and your wife each signed one of the delivery slips, I think the best advice is just to leave the extra TV boxed up for a month or two. If they choose to pursue it, you could easily say it was a mix up. If they don't, free TV. If they do pursue it, however, and you've already torn into both boxes... gets a bit more difficult to feign ignorance.

[BacktoBasics]

^That's kind of the way I feel about it Basics, I know for a fact I've gotten fucked over a number of times in life while doing the right thing. At the same time I continue to feel guilty about this situation and wonder if I'm doing the right or wrong thing? I don't even know if that makes sense.

The other thing with a paper trail is that the 2 tv's were delivered by different shipping companies, with me signing for the first one and my wife signing for the second. We went over it last night and came up with some of the thoughts/advice mentioned above.Well depending on how tight they keep things you got a paper trail that might come back to haunt you. I liked the advice above about keeping it boxed up for a few months to wait it out. If there is some kind of audit or balancing out at the place of business they'll catch it within 60 days 90 at the most. If they do catch it simply tell them "hey its here for you to come and get it, still boxed up and everything, its not my job to help run your company efficiently and fix your internal errors. I've already been inconvienced enough over this, the last thing I'm going to do is your job so if you made an error and you want the TV come and get it".

If its not caught a few months from now or if you move you're free and clear. I would in no way offer it up. NO ONE would do that for you.

[Ballcox]

^Makes sense, bascially what me and the wife came up with last night. Leave it boxed up for 90 days (figuring they would look at shipping figures quarterly), and if they don't call set the damn thing up in our bedroom.

BUT, make sure we keep the box it came in ready just in case down the road they came back on something. I just highly doubt we'll hear anything if we don't hear something in the next 90 days.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'd argue that its theft even if they don't catch the mix-up and that the better course is to return one of the TVs. It's less opportunistic, but then again, refusing to engage in theft tends to be somewhat less opportunistic for the beneficiary of the theft. Essentially, though, you know you got two TVs, you know you were only supposed to get one. Accordingly, there is at least some reason to think that you've appropriated (gained control over) the property of another without that other's consent. That's the basic proof needed to establish theft.

I'd return one TV.

[Phenomanul]

^^^ What he said...

It's the right thing to do.

[BacktoBasics]

Don't let these guys talk you out of evening out the score buddy.

[Heath Ledger]

Dude they are going to figure it out and you are going to look like a major ass clown, you know the right thing to do is give the 2nd tv back. There is no wiggle room for you to win in this case, just call them, and it actually cost them money to deliver and will agin to have it picked up so maybe you can get this one at a steep discount and they can write it off. Thats another scenario you could try. Say hey well instead of you guys wasting more money on sending another crew to pick it up, why not give me 30 or 40 percent off and keep it.

By the way phillips tvs suck.

[Ballcox]

^I don't know about Phillips tv's sucking, this current 52 inch flat screen looks fucking great. Easily as good or maybe a better picture than friends with Sony, Toshiba flat screen tv's.

As for Phillips tracking this down and finding out? I'm not convinced. I remember talking to them on the phone multiple times about the first order-they finally got to the point where they said the tv was supposed to be at the warehouse for pickup and it wasn't there.

They then re-did the whole order, had to get my credit card number and everything, even got a new reference number for the new order (and no, my card hasn't been charged twice). The second order got to my house quick, in about a week, then a few days later the next one which I still believe was the original order to begin with.

And again, I signed for the first order, my wife signed for the second delivery. I think we're pretty well covered by just playing dumb IF they actually follow up on this thing. But then again, my conscience might get the best of me and I just return the damn tv anyway. :depressed

[FromWayDowntown]

And again, I signed for the first order, my wife signed for the second delivery. I think we're pretty well covered by just playing dumb IF they actually follow up on this thing. But then again, my conscience might get the best of me and I just return the damn tv anyway. :depressed

The key thing, from a legal standpoint, is that you do know that you've got an extra TV that you haven't paid for. I would say that it wasn't a great idea to acknowledge that fact in a public internet forum, though I'll admit that it's unlikely that such a post could ever be used as an admission on your part. Just note that theft is the intentional or knowing appropriation of someone else's property. You know that you have their property, and if you don't return it, it could be said that you're intentionally in possession of their property without a lawful authorization. In practical effect, you're likely to be given an opportunity to return it if the mistake is discovered, which negates any criminal concerns with the transaction.

But since your original question was for legal advice, I feel fairly comfortable telling you that keeping the second television is probably a violation of the Texas Penal Code and could be prosecuted if discovered. That's not a comment on how likely prosecution might be, just an acknowledgment that it is possible.

[Ballcox]

Well, now I'm feeling more guilty than ever and I'm thinking I should just do the right thing and return the tv. Guess I'll call them when I get home from work. :depressed

[King]

When a bank accidentally deposits money into your account, it's not yours, and you're responsible for that money if you take it out and spend it.

It's the same situation.

It's theft, plain and simple. You took something that didn't belong to you. Whether or not it was a mistake on their part, is irrelevant.

[CosmicCowboy]

The key thing, from a legal standpoint, is that you do know that you've got an extra TV that you haven't paid for. I would say that it wasn't a great idea to acknowledge that fact in a public internet forum, though I'll admit that it's unlikely that such a post could ever be used as an admission on your part. Just note that theft is the intentional or knowing appropriation of someone else's property. You know that you have their property, and if you don't return it, it could be said that you're intentionally in possession of their property without a lawful authorization. In practical effect, you're likely to be given an opportunity to return it if the mistake is discovered, which negates any criminal concerns with the transaction.

But since your original question was for legal advice, I feel fairly comfortable telling you that keeping the second television is probably a violation of the Texas Penal Code and could be prosecuted if discovered. That's not a comment on how likely prosecution might be, just an acknowledgment that it is possible.

If he says "what second TV? We didn't get or sign for a second TV" when and if they call, that will be that. There is no way they could get a DA to pursue it and it would be too iffy to spend the money in civil court.

[Heath Ledger]

you dont think the two sets of delivery guys would testify differently? he and his wife both signed for the two tvs. they would be screwed.

[CosmicCowboy]

You guys need to get out in the real world...I have people quite frequently sign for delivered merchandise and/or service work and then not pay...If it's just a few thousand it's simply not worth pursuing legally. It can easily cost $50,000 in legal fees to get to a civil trial.

[Heath Ledger]

They have the guys cc# if they catch this they will probably just charge his card, more than likely they will figure this out sooner or later.

[CosmicCowboy]

They have the guys cc# if they catch this they will probably just charge his card, more than likely they will figure this out sooner or later.

Thats certainly what I would do and put the ball right back in his court.

[Ballcox]

^That's the other side to this, would Phillips go out of their way to pursue one tv? Also a tv that by their statement had been lost or was not at the warehouse when it was due to be shipped down to us? Would they actually pursue something like that?

And going by how backwards the whole process was to get this replacement tv done through them, I have a hard time imagining that they would put the pieces together and pursue one lost tv.

We've also been monitoring the account, no extra or double charge at this point.

[Heath Ledger]

I go out of my way to track down missing swords worth less than $50 thru fedex for my company you dont think they are going to put some effort into finding a missing tv? This is a supervisors job somewhere, you are inevitably dealing with a supervisor who wilil try to get kudos from his bosses recovering this tv. You already said yourself you know what the right thing to do is, so just do it or pay for the damn thing.