Mavs @ Blazers Game Thread

[TampaDude]

Anyone watching this one??? Blazers up by double digits at the Rose Garden...

[mavsfan1000]

Josh Howard is out though. Looks like Kidd is having another crappy game though and we are going small already. :(

[1Parker1]

Why is Josh Howard out? Mavs resting their players or something now that they've clinched a playoff spot?

[TampaDude]

Josh Howard is out though. Looks like Kidd is having another crappy game though and we are going small already. :(

Yeah, they are really missing Howard...but the Blazers are always tough at the Rose Garden...

[TampaDude]

37-21 Blazers at the end of one...Blazers shot 73% in the 1st...ouch...

[mavsfan1000]

Yeah, they are really missing Howard...but the Blazers are always tough at the Rose Garden...
Maybe but I don't see how people think this team is better with Kidd. They are losing way more often and Kidd can look really slow sometimes.

[TampaDude]

Maybe but I don't see how people think this team is better with Kidd. They are losing way more often and Kidd can look really slow sometimes.

I think the Kidd trade was a great deal...for the Nets...

[pking]

Why is Josh Howard out? Mavs resting their players or something now that they've clinched a playoff spot?
no, he's got a bruised knee or somethin like that.

[mavsfan1000]

I think the Kidd trade was a great deal...for the Nets...
Agreed. Unfortunately the Nets were far from being a complete team but I guess they don't have to rebuild now.

[CubanMustGo]

To be honest I'm surprised AJ isn't resting Dirk these two games.

[1Parker1]

^That's what I was thinking. Mavs pretty much are locked into that 7th spot.

[CubanMustGo]

And OMG I had no idea Raef LaFrentz was still in the league. With 3 pts so far he has basically doubled his season average already.

[mavsfan1000]

Kidd with -16 ratio so far. Way to go. :rolleyes

[TampaDude]

To be honest I'm surprised AJ isn't resting Dirk these two games.

+1 Mavs have clinched, and they shouldn't risk Dirk getting injured in a fairly meaningless game...NFW the Mavs get outta the first round without Dirk...rest him, AJ.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

The Blazers are shooting 64%, the Mavs defense can be so pathetic at times.

[mavsfan1000]

The Blazers are shooting 64%, the Mavs defense can be so pathetic at times.
When Dampier doesn't show up, we have no backup at center. We are screwed than defensively.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

When Dampier doesn't show up, we have no backup at center. We are screwed than defensively.

Maybe they can play Magloire? He can't be that bad.

[JK2]

I think the Kidd trade was a great deal...for the Nets...
yeah, great deal for them. with the help of Harris they found a way to not make the playoffs. this would have been a mission impossible with Kidd.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

I see some life...

[TampaDude]

Dirk is knocking down those shots like easy money...

[boutons_]

Mavs ran into a buzz saw tonight, Blazers shot 64% in first half.

[mavsfan1000]

yeah, great deal for them. with the help of Harris they found a way to not make the playoffs. this would have been a mission impossible with Kidd.
It doesn't matter. Harris was a better fit on this team than for the Nets. New Jersey needs a playmaker for their slashers while Dallas feeds off of isolations and is in desperate need of a slasher. Also Diop fit in great as a defensive big man on a team that needs defense at the center position. Continue to make lite of this terrible trade that will put us into rebuild mode soon.

[TampaDude]

Mavs are chipping away...

[The Nba Is Rigged]

We just need to play some better D

[JK2]

Continue to make lite of this terrible trade that will put us into rebuild mode soon.
Kidd will give them even more options when rebuilding. In 2 or 3 years when Josh and Dirk won't be around anymore you would have built the new team around a mediocre PG like Harris. Is that what you're telling me? He is already worse than many young PGs in the west and he will never be better than them.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Why is Steve Blake lighting us up?

[mavsfan1000]

Kidd will give them even more options when rebuilding. In 2 or 3 years when Josh and Dirk won't be around anymore you would have built the new team around a mediocre PG like Harris. Is that what you're telling me? He is already worse than many young PGs in the west and he will never be better than them.
Harris is already a top 10 point guard in the league. He was the perfect fit on a team like Dallas that didn't rely on a playmaker but rather help in areas like scoring which forces other teams to put good defenders on him. They don't have to do that with Kidd. They can hide their weaker guard defender on Kidd and they can expose Dallas more now that they only have one center.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Harris is already a top 10 point guard in the league. He was the perfect fit on a team like Dallas that didn't rely on a playmaker but rather help in areas like scoring which forces other teams to put good defenders on him. They don't have to do that with Kidd. They can hide their weaker guard defender on Kidd and they can expose Dallas more now that they only have one center.

Just face the fact that we are not getting Devin back, I love Devin but there is nothing we as fans can do. You have to support J-kidd now because he is a member of the mavs family now. :king

[JK2]

Harris is already a top 10 point guard in the league.
In the D-League probably, but not in the NBA. If you consider Devin Harris a PG, then AI and Arenas are point guards as well. add Deron, CP3, Parker, Calderon, Miller, Kidd, Nash, Billups, Davis, ... to these two and there are many other point guards that are way better than mediocre Devin Harris. Harris will never make the all star game and he will never win shit unless Lebron signs with the Nets.

[ducks]

harris has more chance then kidd winning a title

[JK2]

if anything he will win back to back flopper of the year awards.

[balli]

If you consider Devin Harris a PG, then AI and Arenas are point guards as well.

Ummmmmmm. I don't think you're aware that Devin Harris' game is like the complete 100% antithesis of the way Arenas and AI play.

Considering your take on Harris I'm assuming you're already stuck in understanding my post. Let me help you really quick-


Main Entry: an·tith·e·sis
Pronunciation: \an-ˈti-thə-səs\
Function: noun
(1): the second of two opposing constituents of an antithesis (2): the direct opposite <her temperament is the very antithesis of mine>

I'm sorry. I couldn't help it.

[JK2]

FUCK YOU! sorry I couldn't help it. I was not comparing Harris' style of play to AI's and Arenas'. Officially they are all PG, but all of them play more like a SG. Harris is not a true PG either.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Dirk is a Fucking beast! 101-101 58 seconds left

[boutons_]

Blazers 3 posessions, no score, Mavs it up 101

[Findog]

Great foul by Terry. Either don't let him get it off or let him dunk it. Don't give him the And One.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Games like these make me hate Jason Terry

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Avery Johnson can finish this game off with some of his bad coaching

[balli]

FUCK YOU! sorry I couldn't help it. I was not comparing Harris' style of play to AI's and Arenas'. Officially they are all PG, but all of them play more like a SG. Harris is not a true PG either.

That's why Donnie Nelson said this about him--


We came up with the fifth pick and we thought that this young man was the best talent, the most talented player with an eye on generating offense. I think that’s important to our basketball team. We feel he’s a true point-guard. This kid is more out of the Steve Nash mold. He’s able to get into the gut and create opportunities

[Findog]

Just need to get a stop here and then Dirk can win it for us.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Nice work by Jet on the FT's

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Aj is taking out Damp :wtf

[JK2]

We feel he’s a true point-guard. This kid is more out of the Steve Nash mold. He’s able to get into the gut and create opportunities
you're insane quoting that crappy lie.

[Findog]

Well, at least only 6 seconds ran off the clock.

[Findog]

Blazers have to hit their FTs

[Findog]

Uh, hey dumbasses, way to waste the clock

[Findog]

4.8 seconds to nail a tying 3-pointer

[Findog]

Blazers win

[ducks]

blazers back to 500

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Blazers win

Please can I cry on your shoulder? :cry

[ludda]

Good job by Terry :lol

[1Parker1]

Did this game matter to the Mavs? I thought they were pretty much locked into that 7th spot...

[Findog]

Did this game matter to the Mavs? I thought they were pretty much locked into that 7th spot...

They don't want to rest guys. We've been playing well lately, I think we'd won like 7 of 8 coming into this game and they want to keep guys sharp by playing. Last year they shut guys down once the #1 seed was clinched, while GS was already playing playoff basketball. The rust was probably a bit of a factor early in the series.

[GuerillaBlack]

Mavs were 6-4 out of their last 10, so not bad. I think there is a small possibility that the Mavs can be the 8th seed, but I doubt it.

[ludda]

NO loses to Sac

[1Parker1]

They don't want to rest guys. We've been playing well lately, I think we'd won like 7 of 8 coming into this game and they want to keep guys sharp by playing. Last year they shut guys down once the #1 seed was clinched, while GS was already playing playoff basketball. The rust was probably a bit of a factor early in the series.

I guess, I'm just surprised they played Dirk so much. I guess Avery wants to keep him in a rythmn going into the playoffs. Mavs have been playing well since Dirk went down and they had their backs to the wall.

[DaDakota]

Wow - didn't figure the Mavs would lose this game.

DD

[Findog]

Wow - didn't figure the Mavs would lose this game.

DD

They let the Blazers shoot 59%. They were down big, tied it at 101 on a Dirk jumper with a minute left, then JET had an awful foul on an Aldridge dunk for an And One.

[tlongII]

I love my team! We don't have anything to play for and we still nut up and beat the Mavs. :)

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Jet and Avery can be so stupid

[The Nba Is Rigged]

I love my team! We don't have anything to play for and we still nut up and beat the Mavs. :)

We didn't have our starting Sg and our starting SF and you still only won by 3

[Findog]

I love my team! We don't have anything to play for and we still nut up and beat the Mavs. :)

Blazers brought it tonight. I'm convinced that the karma of playing hard last year and not tanking is what got them the top pick. The Blazers are certainly doing things the right way and seem to have exorcised the stink of the Jail Blazers era.

[DazedAndConfused]

POR is a very good team at home. When they are hot from the outside they are tough to beat.

[tlongII]

We didn't have our starting Sg and our starting SF and you still only won by 3

We didn't have the #1 draft pick (Oden), our starting center (Przybilla), or our starting small forward (Webster).

[DazedAndConfused]

The sad thing about the Blazers is this is their 6th straight season missing the playoffs. They have stockpiles of draft picks but it remains to be seen whether any of their players will realize their potential outside of Roy. I'm not sold that they will be an automatic contender in the next few years. There are a ton of teams in the NBA with talent that still suck.........like the Nuggets.

[GuerillaBlack]

Wow - didn't figure the Mavs would lose this game.

DD
Yeah, but I didn't think the Rockets were going to lose against the Kings either. Everytime I see a loss like what the Mavs did tonight, I laugh a bit, then think about how the Rockets lost by one damn point to the low Kings.

[Findog]

^ 5 straight missing the playoffs. We beat them in the first round in 02-03.

[tlongII]

The sad thing about the Blazers is this is their 6th straight season missing the playoffs. They have stockpiles of draft picks but it remains to be seen whether any of their players will realize their potential outside of Roy. I'm not sold that they will be an automatic contender in the next few years. There are a ton of teams in the NBA with talent that still suck.........like the Nuggets.
I guess you are in for a surprise then. The Lakers are the only team with a realistic chance of competing with us actually. That is assuming Bynum's knee is okay.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

We didn't have the #1 draft pick (Oden), our starting center (Przybilla), or our starting small forward (Webster).

We have an Injured Dirk playing, no starting Sg, and No starting Sf and you guys were up by 14 at one point, and weren't you guys shooting like 59%? And yet you only won by 3.

[Findog]

Blazers played well and deserved to win. You take your lumps and move on.

[tlongII]

We have an Injured Dirk playing, no starting Sg, and No starting Sf and you guys were up by 14 at one point, and weren't you guys shooting like 59%? And yet you only won by 3.

The key point there is we still won by 3.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Blazers played well and deserved to win. You take your lumps and move on.

Don't mind me I'm just the definition of a sore loser. :bang

[ludda]

The game was meaningless anyways since Mavs are locked in 7th barring something major, but I think the last game against NO for the Mavs may be important in deciding who they will face first round.

[sribb43]

Blazers beat the Lakers the other night at home and the blazers crowds are back which makes the Rose Garden a tough place to play once again

[Matchman]

I guess you are in for a surprise then. The Lakers are the only team with a realistic chance of competing with us actually. That is assuming Bynum's knee is okay.

I guess you are REALLY in for a surprise then. :lol

[mavsfan1000]

Just face the fact that we are not getting Devin back, I love Devin but there is nothing we as fans can do.
Yes I know. :depressed Maybe we can get Diop back this offseason. God our backups to Dampier are horrible.

[sribb43]

Yes I know. :depressed Maybe we can get Diop back this offseason. God our backups to Dampier are horrible.


too bad avery treats Damp as a backup only playing him 21 minutes

the best thing for the mavs is to have allen hurt because avery wont play damp in 4th quarter if allen is healthy

21 minutes for Damp is uncalled for when he has only 3 fouls. freakin Allen had no boards in 6 minutes and with dirk hurting he isnt as good of a rebounder as when healthy....when will the fool Avery learn defensive rebounding and shot blocking is crucial down the stretch of games


I guess avery thinks Damp has no business on the court in the 4th quarter. I mean what can he do? Block or alter shots, rebound, dunk. We don't need any of that, would be my guess, otherwise Avery would have him in the game.

[GuerillaBlack]

I guess you are in for a surprise then. The Lakers are the only team with a realistic chance of competing with us actually. That is assuming Bynum's knee is okay.
Huh?

[balli]

you're insane quoting that crappy lie.

Look man. I'm sorry for the way I came at you. I just thought it would be funnier than it was. For the record I don't think Devin Harris is all that good, or a true pg. I do think he aspires to be a true pg though. At least more than he aspires to be the next Arenas/AI type. Probably the closest comparison would be Tony Parker.

[DaDakota]

I guess you are in for a surprise then. The Lakers are the only team with a realistic chance of competing with us actually. That is assuming Bynum's knee is okay.


What are you talking about? The Rockets dominated the Blazers this year...and some times without our best player Yao Ming.

The Blazers are on the rise, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and start crowning .500 teams as world champs.

Come on now..baby steps.

DD

[tlongII]

I see only Rox fans complained about my last post. I would give them more credit, but only if I see Yao and TMac healthy together.

[mavsfan1000]

FUCK YOU! sorry I couldn't help it. I was not comparing Harris' style of play to AI's and Arenas'. Officially they are all PG, but all of them play more like a SG. Harris is not a true PG either.
Kidd is not a true point guard by my definition. A real true point guard can score as well as passing. No weaknesses is the ideal point guard. Nash and Paul are true point guards. Kidd is just a passing point guard. Harris is a scoring point guard that can pass some. I prefer the overall game of Harris over what Kidd has brought so far this year.

[Findog]

Kidd is not a true point guard by my definition.


:lol

[mavsfan1000]

:lol
Did you read the rest of my post? It was not meant to be taken out of context as a stand alone quote. Shooting (or slashing) is equally important as the passing.

[Findog]

Did you read the rest of my post? It was not meant to be taken out of context as a stand alone quote. Shooting (or slashing) is equally important as the passing.

Jason Kidd isn't a true PG.

:lol

[mavsfan1000]

Jason Kidd isn't a true PG.

:lol
You're just as bad as monofagit1k. Taking my comments out of context. I meant that I felt for Kidd to be the ideal point guard, he needs to be able to be an offensive threat as well. It would open so many more options. Teams will force him to shoot in the playoffs so shooting is really important for a guard.

[Findog]

You're just as bad as monofagit1k. Taking my comments out of context. I meant that I felt for Kidd to be the ideal point guard, he needs to be able to be an offensive threat as well. It would open so many more options. Teams will force him to shoot in the playoffs so shooting is really important for a guard.

He's shooting 51% from behind the arc as a Mav and he can get to the rim. A point guard's first job is to run the offense and distribute to his teammates. Few have been better at that than Kidd.

You can be of the opinion that it would've been better for the Mavs to stand pat, but you don't throw Kidd under the bus now that he's part of the Mavs family. You're just as bad as the overzealous homers calling Harris a spare.

[mavsfan1000]

He's shooting 51% from behind the arc and he can get to the rim. A point guard's first job is to run the offense and distribute to his teammates. Few have been better at that than Kidd.
Yes he shoots 36% overall. He gets to the rim and misses the easy ones as well as the midrange shots. He passes up a lot of open shots as well which hurts the team. Other teams could just run him off the 3 point line knowing he isn't a good finisher.

[arcticjoe]

Yes he shoots 36% overall. He gets to the rim and misses the easy ones as well as the midrange shots. He passes up a lot of open shots as well which hurts the team. Other teams could just run him off the 3 point line knowing he isn't a good finisher.

so you're essentially knocking this guy because hes not an offensive threat.

anything else besides he cant shoot?

[mavsfan1000]

You can be of the opinion that it would've been better for the Mavs to stand pat, but you don't throw Kidd under the bus now that he's part of the Mavs family. You're just as bad as the overzealous homers calling Harris a spare.
Yes Kidd is no spare but expectations are high since we traded away so much for him as well as his huge salary. He is not a franchise player.

[Findog]

Yes he shoots 36% overall. He gets to the rim and misses the easy ones as well as the midrange shots. He passes up a lot of open shots as well which hurts the team. Other teams could just run him off the 3 point line knowing he isn't a good finisher.

Well, it's too bad that we rely on Kidd to shoot 20-25 times a game. Here's a hint: We didn't get him to score 30 points a game.

[mavsfan1000]

so you're essentially knocking this guy because hes not an offensive threat.

anything else besides he cant shoot?
Shooting is the most important part of the game. You are a liability if you can't shoot. As a point guard, you gotta pass to as well as run plays like pick and roll and etc well. A lot of these plays rely on players being able to shoot or slash as well as executing the play well. If you wonder why our halfcourt offense is a little weak, look no further than Kidd not being a reliable shooter (unless wide open) or slasher.

[Findog]

Yes Kidd is no spare but expectations are high since we traded away so much for him as well as his huge salary. He is not a franchise player.

We traded away Devin Harris, our backup center and two picks in the late twenties in exchange for him and Antoine Wright. I don't know if you're aware of this either, but we sent back just as much salary as we brought in and Kidd's contract comes off the books after next season. I like Wright.

Kidd is better than Harris. For the next two seasons that's all that matters.

[Findog]

Shooting is the most important part of the game. You are a liability if you can't shoot. As a point guard, you gotta pass to as well as run plays like pick and roll and etc well. A lot of these plays rely on players being able to shoot or slash as well as executing the play well. If you wonder why our halfcourt offense is a little weak, look no further than Kidd not being a reliable shooter (unless wide open) or slasher.

Kidd's never been a great shooter. So what's your point? He hasn't had to rely on it to be a great player.

[mavsfan1000]

Well, it's too bad that we rely on Kidd to shoot 20-25 times a game. Here's a hint: We didn't get him to score 30 points a game.
Kidd will need to be a threat for teams to honor Kidd and not play off him. You don't want Dirk or Josh Howard double teamed by the guy guarding Kidd. Spurs putting Manu on Kidd was brilliant as Manu is a great help defender. See that is where Kidd not being a threat can hurt us.

[arcticjoe]

Shooting is the most important part of the game. You are a liability if you can't shoot. As a point guard, you gotta pass to as well as run plays like pick and roll and etc well. A lot of these plays rely on players being able to shoot or slash as well as executing the play well. If you wonder why our halfcourt offense is a little weak, look no further than Kidd not being a reliable shooter (unless wide open) or slasher.


ok now that you got that out in what areas do you see kidd better then harris

im just trying to get you to lay it down straight im not making any judgments i just want to get the full opinion of someone who disagrees with the trade.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

He's shooting 51% from behind the arc as a Mav and he can get to the rim. A point guard's first job is to run the offense and distribute to his teammates. Few have been better at that than Kidd.

You can be of the opinion that it would've been better for the Mavs to stand pat, but you don't throw Kidd under the bus now that he's part of the Mavs family. You're just as bad as the overzealous homers calling Harris a spare.

Well said :toast

[Findog]

Kidd will need to be a threat for teams to honor Kidd and not play off him. You don't want Dirk or Josh Howard double teamed by the guy guarding Kidd. Spurs putting Manu on Kidd was brilliant as Manu is a great help defender. See that is where not having being a threat can hurt us.

And having Devin Harris shoot from the outside is so much better, then? Devin really gives Ray Allen a run for his money in the sharpshooter long-range gunner department?


:rolleyes

What is Devin shooting from 3? 29% in Jersey? Meanwhile Kidd is hitting half of his shots from behind the arc. You've turned Harris into a Hall of Famer and downgraded Kidd into a spare. You're hopeless.

[mavsfan1000]

ok now that you got that out in what areas do you see kidd better then harris

im just trying to get you to lay it down straight im not making any judgments i just want to get the full opinion of someone who disagrees with the trade.
Obviously rebounding and the fastbreak execution. Fastbreaks don't rely on shooting as much since teams don't have time to think over on how to play to your weaknesses. Harris was good as well for the 1 man fastbreak.

[mavsfan1000]

And having Devin Harris shoot from the outside is so much better, then? Devin really gives Ray Allen a run for his money in the sharpshooter long-range gunner department?


:rolleyes

What is Devin shooting from 3? 29% in Jersey? Meanwhile Kidd is hitting half of his shots from behind the arc. You've turned Harris into a Hall of Famer and downgraded Kidd into a spare. You're hopeless.
I didn't say any of this. We did downgrade slightly for this year but where it hurt us was longterm. We gave up the point guard of the future. Dirk and Howard hasve 3 or 4 good years left. Kidd has one or 2 good years left. Harris can shoot the 3 quicker and if you run at him he'll go right by you so you have to honor his slashing more. It makes things more complicated for the defense. In close games, Harris is the better option.

[san antonio spurs]

I see only Rox fans complained about my last post. I would give them more credit, but only if I see Yao and TMac healthy together.
I assume that rox fans being new here are not aware of your great bold predictions. :lol
I guess everybody found your prediction cute and just ignored it.

[Shank]

Kidd is not a true point guard by my definition.

Holy shit! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! You just prove yourself to be more and more of an idiot every time you post crap like this.

Seriously, do us all a favor and stop pretending like you know anything about the Mavericks or basketball and have yourself a KFC bowl.

[Obstructed_View]

Did you read the rest of my post? It was not meant to be taken out of context as a stand alone quote. Shooting (or slashing) is equally important as the passing.
Sorry, but there's no context where that isn't a stupid statement. I think the Kidd trade was terrible for the Mavs, but Kidd's still a top five point guard in this league.

[ElNono]

Sorry, but there's no context where that isn't a stupid statement. I think the Kidd trade was terrible for the Mavs, but Kidd's still a top five point guard in this league.

No way. 3 years ago? Maybe.
I would put these guys before him nowadays (in no particular order):
- Tony Parker
- Deron Williams
- CP3
- B Diddy
- AI
- Billups

And whether he's above or below Nash is debatable in that Nash can't guard anybody but it's a much superior offensive force.

[mavsfan1000]

Holy shit! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! You just prove yourself to be more and more of an idiot every time you post crap like this.

Seriously, do us all a favor and stop pretending like you know anything about the Mavericks or basketball and have yourself a KFC bowl.
Just look at our record with Harris and our record with Kidd you homer. Quite a difference there

[The Nba Is Rigged]

You guys need to stop dissing Mavsfan1000, I don't know if I'm right or not but when he said that "Kidd isn't a true Pg" you guys misunderstood him. There are things that Kidd does that is different from most Pg's, he can post up smaller guards, he can't shoot like a regular Pg, he has the strength of a Sf, and he plays the passing lanes like a swingman. It is because of those things that Mavsfan1000 probably said he isn't a true Pg, but he was wrong. Kidd is a true Pg but he is a very different kind of Pg, one with a weak aspect of his game but many other strong aspects which makes him a hall of famer. No need to hate a fellow Mavs fan...

[mavsfan1000]

You guys need to stop dissing Mavsfan1000, I don't know if I'm right or not but when he said that "Kidd isn't a true Pg" you guys misunderstood him. There are things that Kidd does that is different from most Pg's, he can post up smaller guards, he can't shoot like a regular Pg, he has the strength of a Sf, and he plays the passing lanes like a swingman. It is because of those things that Mavsfan1000 probably said he isn't a true Pg, but he was wrong. Kidd is a true Pg but he is a very different kind of Pg, one with a weak aspect of his game but many other strong aspects which makes him a hall of famer. No need to hate a fellow Mavs fan...
Thanks man. When I think of a true point guard, I think a point guard that makes the team better in the halfcourt as well as the fastbreak. We all know that Kidd is great on the fastbreak but the halfcourt part is more questionable. I think to be considered a true point guard, you need to be able to be a threat offensively. Kidd in his day could take players off the dribble and be more of a threat offensively which allowed to be more of a true point guard. These days, he just waits around the 3 point line passing the ball. I don't consider that enough to be considered a true point guard late in his career. The offense still gets stagnant. Like I said, I think Nash and Paul are true point guards as they are great in the halfcourt.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Thanks man. When I think of a true point guard, I think a point guard that makes the team better in the halfcourt as well as the fastbreak. We all know that Kidd is great on the fastbreak but the halfcourt part is more questionable. I think to be considered a true point guard, you need to be able to be a threat offensively. Kidd in his day could take players off the dribble and be more of a threat offensively which allowed to be more of a true point guard. These days, he just waits around the 3 point line passing the ball. I don't consider that enough to be considered a true point guard late in his career. The offense still gets stagnant. Like I said, I think Nash and Paul are true point guards as they are great in the halfcourt.

He's still a true point guard though imo, as long as he can still run the team even though he can't score much he is still a true point guard. If Avery could get Kidd to post up more we would be fine.

[DaDakota]

Mavsfan1k,

A lot of people agree with you about the Kidd/Harris trade.

At the end of the day if Dallas doesn't win it this year or next, it will be a bad trade.

DD

[Indazone]

Thanks man. When I think of a true point guard, I think a point guard that makes the team better in the halfcourt as well as the fastbreak. We all know that Kidd is great on the fastbreak but the halfcourt part is more questionable. I think to be considered a true point guard, you need to be able to be a threat offensively. Kidd in his day could take players off the dribble and be more of a threat offensively which allowed to be more of a true point guard. These days, he just waits around the 3 point line passing the ball. I don't consider that enough to be considered a true point guard late in his career. The offense still gets stagnant. Like I said, I think Nash and Paul are true point guards as they are great in the halfcourt.

Kidd plays this way cause he has a moron at Head Coach named Avery Johnson. He will always put up better stats in NJ because the way that offense ran. With AJ, forgetaboutit. This is equivalent to JVG asking Spanoulis to be a spot up jump shooter last year.

[Findog]

No way. 3 years ago? Maybe.
I would put these guys before him nowadays (in no particular order):
- Tony Parker
- Deron Williams
- CP3
- B Diddy
- AI
- Billups

And whether he's above or below Nash is debatable in that Nash can't guard anybody but it's a much superior offensive force.

Haha, in what universe is AI better than Kidd?

[Findog]

Just look at our record with Harris and our record with Kidd you homer. Quite a difference there

There's no way you can attribute that solely to Harris and Kidd.

[mavsfan1000]

Haha, in what universe is AI better than Kidd?
:rolleyes

[Shank]

Just look at our record with Harris and our record with Kidd you homer. Quite a difference there

Right. So records with certain players determine whether or not a guy is an actual point guard or not? That makes perfect sense.

And you think Devin Harris IS a point guard, then? He should have been a change of pace at the 2 position while in Dallas. He wasn't even a PG in college.

Again. You're an idiot. The more you post, the more evident this is.

[td4mvp21]

Kidd's a HOF true pg. I do think the Mavs were better with their old team though.

[mavsfan1000]

There's no way you can attribute that solely to Harris and Kidd.
Harris had a plus 2 higher ratio than what Kidd has now in plus/minus statistically. That is just one reason but as I pointed before, there is a big difference between having Diop as the backup center and having Bass/Allen/Juwan Howard as the backup center. So we got hurt in 2 positions is why we aren't as good now.

[Findog]

Like I said, I think Nash and Paul are true point guards as they are great in the halfcourt.

Well, Nash certainly did whatever he wanted against Kidd last Sunday.


:rolleyes

I mean, we shouldn't care that our defense is BETTER since Kidd has arrived.

[mavsfan1000]

Right. So records with certain players determine whether or not a guy is an actual point guard or not? That makes perfect sense.

And you think Devin Harris IS a point guard, then? He should have been a change of pace at the 2 position while in Dallas. He wasn't even a PG in college.

Again. You're an idiot. The more you post, the more evident this is.
Look who's the idiot now. Harris can play both positions on offense but Harris as a 2 in the pro level, will get overpowered consistently. He plays just like Tony Parker. I guess you don't think much of Parker either. Go back in your shell and stop bothering me with your stupidity.

[mavsfan1000]

Well, Nash certainly did whatever he wanted against Kidd last Sunday.


:rolleyes

I mean, we shouldn't care that our defense is BETTER since Kidd has arrived.
Yeah our defense was really great against Portland. 37-21 after the first quarter and Kidd was out there the whole time.

[Findog]

Harris had a plus 2 higher ratio than what Kidd has now in plus/minus statistically. That is just one reason but as I pointed before, there is a big difference between having Diop as the backup center and having Bass/Allen/Juwan Howard as the backup center. So we got hurt in 2 positions is why we aren't as good now.

Changing starting PGs is like changing starting quarterbacks. It affects everything. Throw in the injuries and the fact that almost all of those games against elite teams went to the wire and I'm not concerned at all.

Not a surprise you can't see it with your own eyes, you must be just monitoring the box scores instead of watching the games.

[mavsfan1000]

Changing starting PGs is like changing starting quarterbacks. It affects everything. Throw in the injuries and the fact that almost all of those games against elite teams went to the wire and I'm not concerned at all.

Not a surprise you can't see it with your own eyes, you must be just monitoring the box scores instead of watching the games.
This team isn't built properly around Kidd. You need slashers for Kidd to be used properly. Everything is a jump shot and the percentages aren't going to be that high. No slashers equal first round exit.

[Findog]

Yeah our defense was really great against Portland. 37-21 after the first quarter and Kidd was out there the whole time.

And they held San Antonio to 97 and 87, LA to 93 in regulation, Golden State to 86, Phoenix to 98. Need I go on or do you just want to cherrypick one single quarter? The Blazers shot 58% last night. One would think they scored 120 instead of 106.

You're hopeless.

[Findog]

This team isn't built properly around Kidd. You need slashers for Kidd to be used properly. Everything is a jump shot and the percentages aren't going to be that high. No slashers equal first round exit.

Which is why you throw Kidd under the bus for the entire team's problems. This team wasn't going anywhere with Devin, the offense bogged down into iso crap late in games. Kidd is better than Harris. It doesn't guarantee anything other than we are a better team after the trade.

[td4mvp21]

And they held San Antonio to 97 and 87, LA to 93 in regulation, Golden State to 86, Phoenix to 98. Need I go on or do you just want to cherrypick one single quarter? The Blazers shot 58% last night. One would think they scored 120 instead of 106.

You're hopeless.

No, the Mavs allowed the Spurs to score 88, not 87. So they aren't that great defensively.

[mavsfan1000]

And they held San Antonio to 97 and 87, LA to 93 in regulation, Golden State to 86, Phoenix to 98. Need I go on or do you just want to cherrypick one single quarter? The Blazers shot 58% last night. One would think they scored 120 instead of 106.

You're hopeless.
This team is worse defensively. I don't care about the scrubs we blew on that meaningless 5 game win streak. Without that streak, it gets pretty embarrassing. 108 points it was btw. It's having Bass at center that hurt us the most. Kidd is about equal to Harris on defense and both have their matchup problems occassionally.

[Findog]

No, the Mavs allowed the Spurs to score 88, not 87. So they aren't that great defensively.

You're right.
:lol

[Findog]

This team is worse defensively. I don't care about the scrubs we blew on that meaningless 5 game win streak. Without that streak, it gets pretty embarrassing. 108 points it was btw. It's having Bass at center that hurt us the most. Kidd is about equal to Harris on defense and both have their matchup problems occassionally.

God you are hopeless. So holding good teams to poor offensive performances mean nothing? Kidd is better than Devin on defense, Devin can't guard CP3 or Deron any better than Kidd can, and Kidd can actually do a decent job on the bigger guards.

[Shank]

No, the Mavs allowed the Spurs to score 88, not 87. So they aren't that great defensively.

Dammit. We were going somewhere with that point, but you had to ruin it.

And it's good to see Mavsfan1000 post as mavsfan100041 over on DB.com and getting her ass owned up and down on this same topic by a board full of Mavs diehards.

[mavsfan1000]

Which is why you throw Kidd under the bus for the entire team's problems. This team wasn't going anywhere with Devin, the offense bogged down into iso crap late in games. Kidd is better than Harris. It doesn't guarantee anything other than we are a better team after the trade.
I throw the trade under the bus. We traded away our only consistent slasher. How stupid is stat? It's not Kidd's fault the Front Office are idiots.

[mavsfan1000]

Dammit. We were going somewhere with that point, but you had to ruin it.

And it's good to see Mavsfan1000 post as mavsfan100041 over on DB.com and getting her ass owned up and down on this same topic by a board full of Mavs diehards.
Link to topic? Stop stalking me you psycho.

[Shank]

Harris had a plus 2 higher ratio than what Kidd has now in plus/minus statistically. That is just one reason but as I pointed before, there is a big difference between having Diop as the backup center and having Bass/Allen/Juwan Howard as the backup center. So we got hurt in 2 positions is why we aren't as good now.

Wow. +/- really telling the whole story here. John Hollinger thinks you're awesome.

You keep bringing up Bass/Allen/Ju-Ho as the backup center. Question: Who is the backup center for the Mavericks? I'll give you hint - it's not an individual player. If you've watched any games at all, you'll be able to answer this one pretty easily.

Mavs are better now than they were with Harris here. Period. But what do you care? You're a Bulls fan anyway. Or was it the Nets? I forget. I know it's not the Mavericks because you don't know shit about your own team.

[Findog]

I throw the trade under the bus. We traded away our only consistent slasher. How stupid is stat? It's not Kidd's fault the Front Office are idiots.

And if Harris is so great, why can't he stay healthy, knock down open jumpers or do anything on defense besides draw a charge? He was a nice young player, but there is a reason he's not put in the same class as CP3, Williams, Parker. He's about as good as Raymond Felton.

[mavsfan1000]

God you are hopeless. So holding good teams to poor offensive performances mean nothing? Kidd is better than Devin on defense, Devin can't guard CP3 or Deron any better than Kidd can, and Kidd can actually do a decent job on the bigger guards.
This was a better defensive team before the trade. 91.8>93.2 on defense last I've heard. I'm not saying we are a poor defensive team either way but have gotten slightly worse. Mainly because of small ball.

[Shank]

This team is worse defensively.

No, it's not.

[mavsfan1000]

And if Harris is so great, why can't he stay healthy, knock down open jumpers or do anything on defense besides draw a charge? He was a nice young player, but there is a reason he's not put in the same class as CP3, Williams, Parker. He's about as good as Raymond Felton.
Harris was a great fit for our team. We rely too much on the jumper now. Harris had good spacing on this team to do his thing. Kidd is not a slasher and that is the main problem with chemistry.

[Shank]

This was a better defensive team before the trade. 91.8>93.2 on defense last I've heard. I'm not saying we are a poor defensive team either way but have gotten slightly worse. Mainly because of small ball.

Holy shit. This bitch thinks 1.4 points is a discernible difference.

Do this, instead. Find all the high-powered offenses in the NBA and tell us how well the Mavs fared against them.

You're not a Mavs fan.

[Shank]

Harris was a great fit for our team. We rely too much on the jumper now. Harris had good spacing on this team to do his thing. Kidd is not a slasher and that is the main problem with chemistry.

There's a chemistry problem with the team? I've seen them improve together almost every game since Kidd came along. It's something that only gets better with time. But a chemistry problem? Dirk is playing better. Howard is playing better. Damp is playing better. Terry knows his role. Bass has his moments. But I haven't seen anything that would lead anyone to believe there's a "chemistry" problem.

Well, maybe someone that's not really a fan of the team, that is. Someone like you.

[mavsfan1000]

Holy shit. This bitch thinks 1.4 points is a discernible difference.

Do this, instead. Find all the high-powered offenses in the NBA and tell us how well the Mavs fared against them.

You're not a Mavs fan.
Yeah I got all this free time to post at all mavs boards and not being a mavs fan. :rolleyes I'm not in the mood in looking up more stats but this team is obviously not as good now. I could care less about what the scoreboard says. The mavs of 2002-03 had good defensive stats but in the playoffs, they got exposed for not having enough interior defense. I feel this year is similar with the loss of Diop. Btw we were 2 games from a championship with Harris as the point guard. We've done nothing with Kidd and I doubt we will.

[mavs>spurs2]

Yeah I got all this free time to post at all mavs boards and not being a mavs fan. :rolleyes I'm not in the mood in looking up more stats but this team is obviously not as good now. I could care less about what the scoreboard says. The mavs of 2002-03 had good defensive stats but in the playoffs, they got exposed for not having enough interior defense. I feel this year is similar with the loss of Diop. Btw we were 2 games from a championship with Harris as the point guard. We've done nothing with Kidd and I doubt we will.

No one was saying we were a good defensive team in 02-03. If you seriously think our defense is that bad then have your eyes checked.

[mavsfan1000]

There's a chemistry problem with the team? I've seen them improve together almost every game since Kidd came along. It's something that only gets better with time. But a chemistry problem? Dirk is playing better. Howard is playing better. Damp is playing better. Terry knows his role. Bass has his moments. But I haven't seen anything that would lead anyone to believe there's a "chemistry" problem.

Well, maybe someone that's not really a fan of the team, that is. Someone like you.
This team has one less scoring threat. I don't see how Terry or Howard are playing better. Against teams that actually care about transition defense, we struggle. We didn't used to have this problem. We were able to score like crazy against the Spurs with Harris starting.

[GuerillaBlack]

This is great filler before the Spurs at Lakers game. Love it.

http://upit.section31.us/uploads/jackson4.gif

Mav1K, you lost.

[mavsfan1000]

This is great filler before the Spurs at Lakers game. Love it.

http://upit.section31.us/uploads/jackson4.gif

Mav1K, you lost.
Shank is just an asshole. I don't know why he is stalking me but I think it's pretty creepy. He should be banned but I guess there are a few others that deserve to be banned as well on here.

[Findog]

Btw we were 2 games from a championship with Harris as the point guard

We were 2 games from a championship with Dirk as our best player.

[mavs>spurs2]

This team has one less scoring threat. I don't see how Terry or Howard are playing better. Against teams that actually care about transition defense, we struggle. We didn't used to have this problem. We were able to score like crazy against the Spurs with Harris starting.

Yes, and the Spurs are about the only team we played better against with Harris. Every other team in the league we play better against with Kidd. I'll take the guy that can make the game easier on everyone rather than the one guy that can penetrate and get to the rim for 12-14 ppg.

[mavsfan1000]

We were 2 games from a championship with Dirk as our best player.
I agree and role players don't matter huh?

[Findog]

Trading away Harris even though he gives the Spurs fits is a risk we had to take in order to make us better and a more well-rounded team. The two biggest matchup problems for them are Dirk and Josh, we still have them. I've seen nothing in the two games against San Antonio post-trade that says we crippled our chances at beating them in a seven-game series. The game in San Antonio could've gone either way and I think we would've won the game in Dallas had Dirk not gotten hurt.

[mavsfan1000]

Yes, and the Spurs are about the only team we played better against with Harris. Every other team in the league we play better against with Kidd. I'll take the guy that can make the game easier on everyone rather than the one guy that can penetrate and get to the rim for 12-14 ppg.
We also play better against the Lakers and Hornets which happen to be the 3 teams we will likely play in the first round. Trade is a failure.

[Findog]

I agree and role players don't matter huh?

Harris was our fourth or fifth-best player during the Finals run. He was probably our third-best player by the time of the trade and we got somebody better than him at his position.

Tell me something, how did "best defensive point guard in the NBA" Devin Harris do against Dwyane Wade in that series?

[Findog]

Trade is a failure.

Summer 2010 forum.

[Shank]

Shank is just an asshole. I don't know why he is stalking me but I think it's pretty creepy. He should be banned but I guess there are a few others that deserve to be banned as well on here.

Funny that you think I'm stalking you. You're just barely a tick above SpursDynasty when it comes to intelligent posts.

I'm trying to get you to run off in shame because you know nothing about your supposed favorite team.

[mavsfan1000]

Harris was our fourth or fifth-best player during the Finals run. He was probably our third-best player by the time of the trade and we got somebody better than him at his position.

Tell me something, how did "best defensive point guard in the NBA" Devin Harris do against Dwyane Wade in that series?
Dwyane Wade is a shooting guard. Btw the Heat aren't a threat anymore so we don't have to matchup to them. New Orleans, San Antonio, and the Lakers are the teams we need to match up against. Dampier by himself at center will get killed by the Lakers front line, Kidd will get killed by Chris Paul, and Kidd will get killed by Parker. All of which are within realm for Harris and Diop to handle.

[Shank]

Maybe he's convinced me.

From what "Mavsfan"1000 writes, I've concluded that Jason Kidd is the worst player in the history of the NBA.

Paul Shirley > The kid that played "Webster" on TV > Retarded baby manatee with no eyeballs > Styrofoam >>>>> Jason Kidd (on a good day)

[mavsfan1000]

Maybe he's convinced me.

From what "Mavsfan"1000 writes, I've concluded that Jason Kidd is the worst player in the history of the NBA.

Paul Shirley > The kid that played "Webster" on TV > Retarded baby manatee with no eyeballs > Stryofoam >>>>> Jason Kidd (on a good day)
Nope. That's not even close to what I'm trying to say. What I'm saying is Dallas would be better with Harris and Diop than with Kidd for the 2008 playoffs. Many mavs fans feel that way but only the homers are the ones that come out since it's not an enjoyable topic to talk about your teams mistakes.

[Findog]

Dwyane Wade is a shooting guard.

He was also the Heat's best perimeter player and Devin was our best perimeter defender.

[ElNono]

Haha, in what universe is AI better than Kidd?

This one. AI can score at will, he can shoot the midrange jumper and the 3 ball, and he can also drive and finish at the rim. He can't defend, but he can lit up any team for 35+, more than enough to offset what he gives at the other end.

I mean really, this one isn't even close.

[dude1394]

I"m not seeing it. The mavs offense is much better against the zone(they beat it with the pass and not the 3pt shot) and kidd does what devin couldn't, get a team fast-break going versus a devin fast break.

We have two starters dirk/damp that are playing much better with kidd than devin and the mavs defense is not worse with kidd. I think it's actually better in 100ppg measures but I can't be sure.

What's concerning me is that avery seems to think he's an offensive coach and he continues to sub out defense for offense when trying to close games. Last night was a good example where damp doesn't play the 4th.

He had malik allen/juwan howard out there. Now they "may" be quicker but they sure didn't and are not going to score more than damp and they don't rebound/pick anywhere near as well. They surely don't defend the rim.

IMO the mavs incosistency this year is right at the feet of avery. Much like the last two series as well imo.

[mavsfan1000]

I"m not seeing it. The mavs offense is much better against the zone(they beat it with the pass and not the 3pt shot) and kidd does what devin couldn't, get a team fast-break going versus a devin fast break.

We have two starters dirk/damp that are playing much better with kidd than devin and the mavs defense is not worse with kidd. I think it's actually better in 100ppg measures but I can't be sure.

What's concerning me is that avery seems to think he's an offensive coach and he continues to sub out defense for offense when trying to close games. Last night was a good example where damp doesn't play the 4th.

He had malik allen/juwan howard out there. Now they "may" be quicker but they sure didn't and are not going to score more than damp and they don't rebound/pick anywhere near as well. They surely don't defend the rim.

IMO the mavs incosistency this year is right at the feet of avery. Much like the last two series as well imo.
Harris had the same coach Kidd had in Dallas. Blaming Avery for Dallas's record with Kidd should also be blamed with his record with Harris. Maybe Harris/Johnson was a better relationship as Harris was willing to listen and let Avery groom him into a point guard he wanted while Kidd I just don't see that happening. I agree though that Dampier should be getting more minutes and that Avery thinks he's Don Nelson with the lineups he has out there. Dampier only getting 21 minutes against Portland is ridiculous.

[Findog]

This one. AI can score at will, he can shoot the midrange jumper and the 3 ball, and he can also drive and finish at the rim. He can't defend, but he can lit up any team for 35+, more than enough to offset what he gives at the other end.

I mean really, this one isn't even close.

:lol :lol

[ElNono]

Kidd can't defend half of the point guards in the West either. You said so yourself. Furthermore, and unlike AI, he won't outscore any of said PGs. And BTW, are you gonna throw him under the bus just like you did with Harris once his shooting starts stinking up the joint in the playoffs?
I mean, it sounds like Lue is an AllStar compared to Harris.

[Findog]

Kidd can't defend half of the point guards in the West either. You said so yourself. Furthermore, and unlike AI, he won't outscore any of said PGs. And BTW, are you gonna throw him under the bus just like you did with Harris once his shooting starts stinking up the joint in the playoffs?
I mean, it sounds like Lue is an AllStar compared to Harris.

Kidd makes his teammates better and makes the game easier for them. All AI does is score.

[ElNono]

Kidd makes his teammates better and makes the game easier for them. All AI does is score.

Who's playing better? Dampier? If he makes everybody around him better how come the team ain't winning as much? I call BS. That's the Kool Aid the media was serving when the trade was made, but the reality is that Kidd is way past his prime.

[mavsfan1000]

Who's playing better? Dampier? If he makes everybody around him better how come the team ain't winning as much? I call BS. That's the Kool Aid the media was serving when the trade was made, but the reality is that Kidd is way past his prime.
Thanks man. Someone gets it.

[mavsfan1000]

Another loss. Yep this Kidd trade has made the difference. :rolleyes

[ElNono]

Thanks man. Someone gets it.

Kidd is so good he makes players on the other team better too.

[mavsfan1000]

We deserve the Fakers after an embarrassing loss like this.

[Findog]

Who's playing better? Dampier?

Dirk, Terry and Josh as well.


If he makes everybody around him better how come the team ain't winning as much?

Injuries, much more difficult schedule, and completely changing the offense.

[Findog]

We deserve the Fakers after an embarrassing loss like this.

You can root for the Lakers for all I care.


:lol

[mavsfan1000]

You can root for the Lakers for all I care.


:lol
I could care less who you root for as well.

[Findog]

I could care less who you root for as well.

Well, I won't jump ship to the Blazers or some other up and coming team.

The Mavs this year were a shitty road team with Devin and they've been a shitty road team with Kidd.

[mavsfan1000]

Well, I won't jump ship to the Blazers or some other up and coming team.

The Mavs this year were a shitty road team with Devin and they've been a shitty road team with Kidd.
29-13 looks good compared to the team we have now. This team was looking good in January. The Harris injury changed the whole season as Cuban panicked. The rest is history.

[ElNono]

JKidd vs Sonics:
4 pts, 6 rbs, 8 ast, 1 stl

AI vs Rockets:
33 pts, 7 rbs, 7 ast, 4 stls, 1 blk

We can do this all year...

[mavsfan1000]

JKidd vs Sonics:
4 pts, 6 rbs, 8 ast, 1 stl

AI vs Rockets:
33 pts, 7 rbs, 7 ast, 4 stls, 1 blk

We can do this all year...
But Iverson can't play defense. :lol

[ElNono]

29-13 looks good compared to the team we have now. This team was looking good in January. The Harris injury changed the whole season as Cuban panicked. The rest is history.

You don't get it. It's the schedule, your team happened to have to play SEA and POR... :rolleyes

[ludda]

AI would fit better in Dallas, they need someone to help Dirk consistently with the scoring load. And Dallas still doesn't get that many easy baskets, from what I've seen they still tend to a slow, methodical halfcourt offense late in games, in which Kidd is not very effective.

[Findog]

JKidd vs Sonics:
4 pts, 6 rbs, 8 ast, 1 stl

AI vs Rockets:
33 pts, 7 rbs, 7 ast, 4 stls, 1 blk

We can do this all year...


Ok, so on April 13, 2008, AI was better than Kidd.

AI is just his generation's Pete Maravich. I thought as a Spurs fan you would appreciate the defensive side of the equation. Nobody can guard CP3 or Deron, Kidd or anybody else. But I have to give a huge edge to Kidd on D.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

I fuckin hate Mavericks Basketball.

[ElNono]

Ok, so on April 13, 2008, AI was better than Kidd.

AI is just his generation's Pete Maravich. I thought as a Spurs fan you would appreciate the defensive side of the equation. Nobody can guard CP3 or Deron, Kidd or anybody else. But I have to give a huge edge to Kidd on D.

I can't. He's got a bigger body, which helps, but if you've been watching, he does the best defensive work with steals and playing the passing lanes.
This is not the '03 Kidd. He can't stay In front of people anymore, just like he lost his step driving to the basket.

And while I do appreciate defense, AI is just too good on offense. We got a wakeup call on the first round of the playoffs last year. We had to put Bowen on him, and double team at times because he would simply kill you. Plus he was guarding Bowen, which gave the Nugs an automatic +20 or so when he was on the floor. The guy is a monster, and let me remind you that while he might not be a great one on one defender, he has been top 5 in the league for steals in the last 6 years or more.
The Nugs are not very good because Melo's BB IQ is terrible, their coach is terrible, and if they didn't have Najera and Camby chucking treys AI assists would look a lot better.

[Findog]

I can't. He's got a bigger body, which helps, but if you've been watching, he does the best defensive work with steals and playing the passing lanes.
This is not the '03 Kidd. He can't stay In front of people anymore, just like he lost his step driving to the basket.

And while I do appreciate defense, AI is just too good on offense. We got a wakeup call on the first round of the playoffs last year. We had to put Bowen on him, and double team at times because he would simply kill you. Plus he was guarding Bowen, which gave the Nugs an automatic +20 or so when he was on the floor. The guy is a monster, and let me remind you that while he might not be a great one on one defender, he has been top 5 in the league for steals in the last 6 years or more.
The Nugs are not very good because Melo's BB IQ is terrible, their coach is terrible, and if they didn't have Najera and Camby chucking treys AI assists would look a lot better.

I'm not trying to diss AI, I've always appreciated that he's a warrior who leaves everything out on the floor, and I agree he's surrounded by a bunch of assclowns. I just think he has his flaws.

[Shank]

Which PG would you rather have running your offense when the playoffs roll around and the game changes?

AI or Kidd?

[DaDakota]

Which PG would you rather have running your offense when the playoffs roll around and the game changes?

AI or Kidd?

Harris.

[stretch]

Harris.
GTFO

[ElNono]

Which PG would you rather have running your offense when the playoffs roll around and the game changes?

AI or Kidd?

I'll answer with a question: 15 seconds to go, season on the line, which lineup would you prefer out there?

AI - Terry - JHo - Dirk - Damp

or

Kidd - Terry - JHo - Dirk - Damp

What's Kidd going to do? He can't drive to the basket, he can't hit a shot to save his life. Compare to AI.
(And please, this assumes that Avery would play Kidd in such a situation)

To answer your question, when playoffs come around, the pace slows down, and the virtues of Kidd running a fast paced offense disappear. When that happens, you want a slasher to open up the lanes, and a shooter to knock the mid range J.

[Shank]

I'll answer with a question: 15 seconds to go, season on the line, which lineup would you prefer out there?

AI - Terry - JHo - Dirk - Damp

or

Kidd - Terry - JHo - Dirk - Damp

What's Kidd going to do? He can't drive to the basket, he can't hit a shot to save his life. Compare to AI.
(And please, this assumes that Avery would play Kidd in such a situation)

He's going to pass it to Dirk, who can make the shot. AI would ignore Dirk and try to take it all by himself.

[mavsfan1000]

I'll answer with a question: 15 seconds to go, season on the line, which lineup would you prefer out there?

AI - Terry - JHo - Dirk - Damp

or

Kidd - Terry - JHo - Dirk - Damp

What's Kidd going to do? He can't drive to the basket, he can't hit a shot to save his life. Compare to AI.
(And please, this assumes that Avery would play Kidd in such a situation)

To answer your question, when playoffs come around, the pace slows down, and the virtues of Kidd running a fast paced offense disappear. When that happens, you want a slasher to open up the lanes, and a shooter to knock the mid range J.
bingo

[monosylab1k]

bingo
Hi Bulls fan.

[ElNono]

He's going to pass it to Dirk, who can make the shot. AI would ignore Dirk and try to take it all by himself.

If Kidd is the one out there the whole world will collapse on Dirk and dare Kidd to take the shot. You can't do that with AI.

[DazedAndConfused]

AI is a classic example of a player who puts up crazy stats that have little effect on his team winning.

[Shank]

AI is a classic example of a player who puts up crazy stats that have little effect on his team winning.

Exactly. Amare Stoudamire Syndrome.

A.S.S.

[ElNono]

AI is a classic example of a player who puts up crazy stats that have little effect on his team winning.

It's funny you say that because Kobe was exactly that last year.

As Findog indicated, he's surrounded by assclowns. The only time he had a fairly decent coach and a relatively good surrounding cast he took the Sixers to the NBA finals.

If he had a Gasol around, and a Phil type of coach your perception of him would change a lot.

[Findog]

I don't think AI is selfish or a thug or any of the negative things said about him, but he IS a lot like Pete Maravich -- volume scorer who needs the ball to do anything positive, and there's not necessarily a correlation between him scoring and his team winning.

[stretch]

He's going to pass it to Dirk, who can make the shot. AI would ignore Dirk and try to take it all by himself.
That is exactly where the problem would lie. If Iverson knew when to defer at the right times as a true PG is supposed to do, then he could be so much better. At the same time, he has never really had an option like Dirk. I do wonder, and think that him and Dirk COULD be an amazing combo. At this stage in his career, I think he is more mature and willing to defer to someone like Dirk, as he is more interested in winning a title. But who knows?

Either way, we have Kidd, and I'm happy with this team. We just need to pick up a consistent athletic bench scorer for next year and we will be just fine. And hopefully with a full offseason, training camp, and regular season, Lue, Wright, and Magliore will be able to contribute more. I think this team is really going to be looking good for next year.

[Findog]

Truth be told, the way it's looking, it really didn't matter whether we made the trade or not. Everybody associated with this team is garbage except for Dirk. I like Kidd if we have the right personnel to run with him, but Coach Napoleon and a bunch of chuckers is not the best way to get the most optimum results out of Kidd.