ESPN MVP votes...Hollinger has Kobe in 4th. LOL

[TheMACHINE]

Hollinger is a dummy.





Here's the rankings each ESPN writer gave Kobe for MVP:

#1

J.A. Adande – To watch Kobe during the Lakers' wins over New Orleans and San Antonio over the weekend was to see his full value on display. The way he directs his teammates, the way he's in sync with coach Phil Jackson, the way he initiates the offense, his help defense ... it's all the subtle parts of his game that deserve mention. They've helped more than his scoring outbursts in the past.

Maurice Brooks – This is the season when the Swiss Army Knife -- best versatility, dependability, and quality in the NBA -- finally gets his due. Kobe is a shut-down defender and has been the best offensive weapon in the league since MJ departed. He is a coach on the floor, has learned to trust other players and has led the Lakers to the top of the most competitive conference in the history of the Association without an All-Star teammate.

Chris Broussard – This is not a "Lifetime Achievement'' vote. This is based on Kobe playing outstanding team (and individual) ball while carrying an injury-plagued club to the top of the West. Andrew Bynum has played only 35 games and Pau Gasol just 25 with the Lakers, yet Kobe's brilliance has kept L.A. soaring. All due respect to CP3, but his two best teammates, David West and Tyson Chandler, have each played at least 74 games.

Jemele Hill - I know I recently wrote that Chris Paul deserves the MVP, but the Hornets appear to be slipping a bit and the Lakers are still surging. Besides, if Kobe doesn't win this one this year, he may go down as the greatest player to never win an MVP. That's as bad as giving Steve Nash two MVPs.

Mark Jackson - Great all-around year. Has trusted his teammates and made them better.

Scoop Jackson - He finally deserves to get recognized for what he is: the best, most complete, thorough-est basketball player breathing. In the end, the haters will have their say, making it three years in a row where he's been overlooked like a balcony. And even though this year will make less sense in him getting it than ever before, Phife's Law is still in effect: "I never need a statue to tell me how nice I am."

Jalen Rose - Has been acknowledged as the best player on both ends of the floor the last couple of seasons. But his maturity this season, his ability to allow teammates to grow while still being able to play well through turbulence -- whether trade rumors, or several injuries to teammates -- makes him the definition of Most Valuable Player.

Marc Stein - Lifetime Achievement Award? Stop it. Kobe is playing the team ball of his life at both ends for a team everyone in the West deeply fears. He's also playing in an individual stratosphere only LeBron can touch, all while playing through a hand injury that still requires surgery because Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol combined to miss more than 60 games. Add it all up and the game's best player has had the best season, too.

David Thorpe - Kobe's numbers are terrific, and he is the only perimeter player in the league you would want both with the ball and defending the ball in the final two minutes of a close game. The Lakers are on the cusp of being the best team in perhaps the best conference ever, despite playing many games without their other key players. He's played in every game this season, inspiring his teammates like never before.

#2

Chris Palmer - I'm in favor of giving Kobe a lifetime achievement award, but that's not why he deserves the MVP should voters actually give him the nod. There were long stretches where Kobe played nearly flawless basketball while the Lakers endured one injury after another. And Los Angeles didn't fade as expected. Outside of Paul, who had a better year in the leadership department? Bryant is the greatest player of his generation. Giving him the award would restore its credibility.

Chris Sheridan - Another one of my beefs: the "lifetime achievement award" argument that some are making to support Bryant's candidacy. Yes, he's the game's best player, but also give credit to Andrew Bynum, Sasha Vujacic and Jordan Farmar for improving on their own, to Lamar Odom for staying healthy, and to Mitch Kupchak for signing Derek Fisher and acquiring Pau Gasol.

#3

Henry Abbott - I bet Kobe is going to win it. And if he does, I'm fine with that because of how he is simultaneously among the hardest-working, the smartest, and the fiercest of players. James and Bryant both appear to coast for stretches of games in the early season. But now that it's prime time, this man is a beast at both ends of the floor.

Chad Ford – Kobe's have a great season, but it's not been his best. The Lakers are winning and I know some will want to give it to him as a lifetime achievement award ... but he's neither the best player on the best team nor the best individual player in the league. So how do you give it to him?

Tim Legler - One of his best all-around seasons. He's had higher scoring seasons, but he has managed this team, helped the younger guys and been embraced by his teammates. He grew up a lot and he's still the best all-around player in the game.

#4

John Hollinger - A favorite because he's never won and the Lakers are likely to finish first in the West. But he didn't have his best season individually -- and the first half of the season, when he was still feeling out whether he wanted to get with the program or not, still sits on his record. I'd draft him ahead of Chris Paul in a heartbeat, but over this 82-game body of work, Paul, Garnett and James were better.
_________________

[monosylab1k]

Damn I just want to punch Jemele Hill right in her fat bitch face.

[monosylab1k]

I'm 100% against abusing women but that fucking bitch absolutely deserves to be smacked around.

[JamStone]

Chad Ford – Kobe's have a great season ... but he's neither the best player on the best team nor the best individual player in the league. So how do you give it to him?

Ford says LeBron is the best individual player in the league. KG is the best player on the best team. And, that's why Kobe can't be MVP, and then he proceeds to vote for Chris Paul.

[JamStone]

I'm 100% against abusing women but that fucking bitch absolutely deserves to be smacked around.


LMAO! But hey she voted Hedo Turkoglu fifth on her ballot so she must like white people now.

[1Parker1]

Chris Palmer - I'm in favor of giving Kobe a lifetime achievement award, but that's not why he deserves the MVP should voters actually give him the nod. There were long stretches where Kobe played nearly flawless basketball while the Lakers endured one injury after another.

Didn't they lose to the Bobcats, Blazers, and Rockets without Yao during that key stretch??? What's he talking about?

[rAm]

I like Marc Stein's response the best.

[Obstructed_View]

I love how Kobe is suddenly a "leader" a "finisher" and a "coach on the floor" when he has two all star caliber players on the floor with him and one of the best benches in the league. A vote for Kobe is a sentimental vote, pure and simple. If he were in Cleveland, they'd be in tenth place, looking for a new coach and shopping Kobe to anyone that answers the phone.

[1Parker1]

:lol That part is also true. I do think Kobe deserves it this season as much as CP3, it's pretty much a toss up. But the fact that people are all of a sudden praising him for his leadership and on the floor coaching is exagerated. If he had acted like this the past two seasons, when he had a struggling team, then I could understand. It's easy to be a leader and floor coach when you're winning.

Ask Lebron James. If Kobe were on that team instead of Lebron, you think he still wouldn't be preaching his "Trade me/Do something to make us a contender,etc" routine?

Kobe deserves the MVP this season because he's been the most consistent player on both ends of the floor this season and he's playing at a high level and involving his teammates more instead of jacking up so many ill-advised shots as he has in the past.

[O-Factor]

I love how Kobe is suddenly a "leader" a "finisher" and a "coach on the floor" when he has two all star caliber players on the floor with him and one of the best benches in the league. A vote for Kobe is a sentimental vote, pure and simple. If he were in Cleveland, they'd be in tenth place, looking for a new coach and shopping Kobe to anyone that answers the phone.

Very True.

And if Lebron was in L.A., the Lakers would be even scarier IMO.

[Allanon]

The last two years, Kobe's had a substantially worse team than LeBron's had the last two years and yet he got them to #7 and #8 respectively in a much more competitive West. Kobe in the East with LeBron's team would have a #2, #3 seed without this struggle right now.

Remember that mild hand sprain LeBron had and sat out a bunch of games? Hell, Kobe would NOT have sat out 7 games like LeBron while his team took on 7 losses. Hand sprain vs broken finger and Kobe's gonna finish up playing ALL 82 games this year.

LeBron's the next great generation player but in this generation, Kobe is still hands down better because winning means more to him than LeBron. LeBron's more physically talented but does not have the competitiveness of a Kobe or even Dirk.

[JamStone]

I love how Kobe is suddenly a "leader" a "finisher" and a "coach on the floor" when he has two all star caliber players on the floor with him and one of the best benches in the league. A vote for Kobe is a sentimental vote, pure and simple. If he were in Cleveland, they'd be in tenth place, looking for a new coach and shopping Kobe to anyone that answers the phone.

With the amount of games missed by both Bynum and Gasol, the Lakers should not be in first place in the Western Conference, period.

I think you have to separate the off-the-court Kobe from the on-the-court Kobe. The off-the-court Kobe has been an extremely selfish person unconcerned with teammates while looking out for his own best interest. The on-the-court Kobe even in previous seasons has frequently and consistently tried to be a leader with his teammates and has always been about winning. Now taking too many shots, not passing the ball, and not trusting his teammates have been a product of him wanting to win. But, even before this season, you would see Kobe talking to teammates on the bench trying to let them know what they are doing right or wrong and directing them in the game. That's leadership on the court. He's obviously a fiery personality and he'll yell at teammates when they fuck up. But, this isn't the first year since Shaq's trade you would see Kobe talking to teammates on the bench or while someone's shooting free throws trying to help teach them to understand something or telling them what to do.

Now in the locker room, Kobe has not been a leader. That's for sure. But, on the court, he's very often been a leader and a coach on the floor. And, he's almost always been a finisher with that one exception in that playoff series against the Suns when he refused to shoot the ball in the second half of the series deciding game.

If Kobe were in Cleveland, I think it's a very good likelihood he would have taken the Cavs just as far last year in the East. And, if LeBron were on the Lakers, I think they would be right around where they are now. Kobe and LeBron are the two best players in the league. While LeBron puts up better individual stats, I don't think he would be a mind blowing difference if he were on the Lakers.

[Killakobe81]

I agree Jamstone ...there isnt much diffence ...Kobe better shooter Lebron stronger finisher ... both best 1 on 1 plyers in the league.

[TheMACHINE]

I love how Kobe is suddenly a "leader" a "finisher" and a "coach on the floor" when he has two all star caliber players on the floor with him and one of the best benches in the league. A vote for Kobe is a sentimental vote, pure and simple. If he were in Cleveland, they'd be in tenth place, looking for a new coach and shopping Kobe to anyone that answers the phone.

I guess David West isnt an all star and Peja is crap...and lets not factor in that NO has been healthy all season. :rolleyes

[GaryJohnston]

Now that Kobe has the best all around cast and bench in the league, he is the model citizen now.

No more throwing the team, Phil, front office, and teammates under the bus huh Kobe? No more demanding a trade, huh Kobe?

He will always be that guy in my eyes. The whiney prima donna.

[JamStone]

Now that Kobe has the best all around cast and bench in the league, he is the model citizen now.

No more throwing the team, Phil, front office, and teammates under the bus huh Kobe? No more demanding a trade, huh Kobe?

He will always be that guy in my eyes. The whiney prima donna.

Silly how most voters consider things on the court rather than off the court when determining who the MVP is.

Off the court, Kobe is a jerk. On the court, he's the best player in the league.

[ludda]

Damn I just want to punch Jemele Hill right in her fat bitch face.

:lol

She is pretty horrible.

[manufor3]

I love how Kobe is suddenly a "leader" a "finisher" and a "coach on the floor" when he has two all star caliber players on the floor with him and one of the best benches in the league. A vote for Kobe is a sentimental vote, pure and simple. If he were in Cleveland, they'd be in tenth place, looking for a new coach and shopping Kobe to anyone that answers the phone.
+1

[GaryJohnston]

Silly how most voters consider things on the court rather than off the court when determining who the MVP is.

Off the court, Kobe is a jerk. On the court, he's the best player in the league.

Im not a voter, I consider him as I please.

Lets not take away the fact that the Lakers team success is highly more skewed to a really great collection of players, rather than one really gifted player.

Similar to what I see in Detroit.

[TheMACHINE]

Im not a voter, I consider him as I please.

Lets not take away the fact that the Lakers team success is highly more skewed to a really great collection of players, rather than one really gifted player.

Similar to what I see in Detroit.

Lol..these same players last year was crap..then all of a sudden..a collection of great players.

[Medvedenko]

Yup a collection of great players from last year.....oh yeah we got rid of Smush and added Fish and we were the best team in the West when Bynum went down. What is the media going to do when there's a healthy laker team with Fish, Kobe, Odom, Bynum and Gasol on the team.....hmmmmm.....

[GaryJohnston]

Yup a collection of great players from last year.....oh yeah we got rid of Smush and added Fish and we were the best team in the West when Bynum went down. What is the media going to do when there's a healthy laker team with Fish, Kobe, Odom, Bynum and Gasol on the team.....hmmmmm.....

LOL, cause thats the only change the Lakers made. Forget adding a huge piece in Pau and getting rid of Kwame Brown. Oh and forget that the young talent on the Lakers squad has improved the way a team hopes young talent can improve. Never mind the key addition of Fish and the improvement of Odom.

Nevermind, forget all that.

It's all Kobe.

[Obstructed_View]

Lol..these same players last year was crap..then all of a sudden..a collection of great players.
Kobe was there with "these same players" last year too. If they are exactly the same, I'm not sure how Kobe suddenly gets credit for making them better when he didn't do it last year. I seem to recall he was demanding a trade and throwing Bynum under the bus not too long ago.

[Allanon]

Kobe was there with "these same players" last year too. If they are exactly the same, I'm not sure how Kobe suddenly gets credit for making them better when he didn't do it last year. I seem to recall he was demanding a trade and throwing Bynum under the bus not too long ago.

He did get credit the previous seasons but didn't get to the magical 50 win mark that determines the MVP. Kobe did a tremendous job of getting an NBDL team to the Playoffs in the West. This is the same reason why LeBron's done a fantastic job but is not a contender for MVP because of team record.

Kobe throwing Bynum under the bus is absolutely true...at the same time, he stopped that shit as soon as the season started. From day 1, he gave the team a chance despite his misgivings. Kobe's been consistent through the entire season, trade or no trade. He could have just as easily been a cancer to the team but he wasn't.

[GaryJohnston]

The next time things go south for the Lakers, I expect to see Kobe show his true colors once again.........Its just a matter of time

[Obstructed_View]

He did get credit the previous seasons but didn't get to the magical 50 win mark that determines the MVP. Kobe did a tremendous job of getting an NBDL team to the Playoffs in the West. This is the same reason why LeBron's done a fantastic job but is not a contender for MVP because of team record.
Lebron's team won 50 games last year, but they gave it to Dirk instead. Why shouldn't Kevin Garnett win it this year?

[TheMACHINE]

LOL, cause thats the only change the Lakers made. Forget adding a huge piece in Pau and getting rid of Kwame Brown. Oh and forget that the young talent on the Lakers squad has improved the way a team hopes young talent can improve. Never mind the key addition of Fish and the improvement of Odom.



Why dont u do us a favor and check what place the Lakers were when Bynum got injured. You may be surprised that they were in 1st.

Btw...teammates inmprovement..i guess Paul doesnt make West and Chandler better? Making teamamtes better is the most overused crappiest cliche in teh NBA.

[Allanon]

Lebron's team won 50 games last year, but they gave it to Dirk instead. Why shouldn't Kevin Garnett win it this year?

KG getting MVP this year I wouldn't mind at all...he deserves it.

The only thing hurting him is Paul Pierce is also an MVP candidate.

[Obstructed_View]

Making teamamtes better is the most overused crappiest cliche in teh NBA.
Since it's the number one thing people say when making a case for Kobe, I guess we're in agreement.

[Obstructed_View]

KG getting MVP this year I wouldn't mind at all...he deserves it.

The only thing hurting him is Paul Pierce is also an MVP candidate.
Pierce put up MVP numbers a couple of years ago, too.

Seriously, there really isn't a Steve Nash among the candidates this year that absolutely doesn't deserve MVP. If Kobe gets it, it might be a lifetime achievement award. So what? It isn't the first time that's happened. Kobe should probably have at least one by now. Some great players didn't win enough MVPs in their careers. Someday we'll all look back and wonder how Lebron James didn't win it.

[TheMACHINE]

Since it's the number one thing people say when making a case for Kobe, I guess we're in agreement.

Kobe gets the 7th seed and he dont make the teamates better.

Kobe gets #1 seed and he doesnt make his teamates better.

I guess we're in agreement that in your eyes he will never make his teamates better.

[spurms]

Hollinger is absolutely right, he based his oppinions on stats and facts, not nut licking or biasness like some dumb sportwritters like jemele hill, who wanted kobe dearly to rape her. There's a reason why kobe never won the mvp, and it's simply he's not good enough, he cant carry his team without shaq, he don't make his team mates better, and he get compared to Jordan lol.

[Allanon]

he cant carry his team without shaq, he don't make his team mates better, and he get compared to Jordan lol.

Kobe can't carry his team? What??? Did you even look at the standings?

Western Conference 2008
#1 Kobe Bryant - Lakers
#2 Chris Paul - Hornets
#3 Tim Duncan - Spurs
#4 DWill - Jazz
#5 TMac - Rockets
#6 ShaqFu - Suns
#7 Dirk - Mavs
#8 AI - Nuggets

Step away from the Haterade :drunk

[spurms]

Kobe can't carry his team? What??? Did you even look at the standings?

Western Conference 2008
#1 Kobe Bryant - Lakers
#2 Chris Paul - Hornets
#3 Tim Duncan - Spurs
#4 DWill - Jazz
#5 TMac - Rockets
#6 ShaqFu - Suns
#7 Dirk - Mavs
#8 AI - Nuggets

Step away from the Haterade :drunk

and check out what happened the years shaq was gone, kobe made his team worst by ballhogging all the time, his 81 points was a fluke because he shot everytime he got the ball, that's not an indication of greatness, it just shows he's a selfish player who wouldnt make his team mates better, look what happen this season, his scoring is down, but the lakers are better because he has someone to share the ball to, i am just saying he is way overated because he was basically expected to go 1 on 5 everytime the previous seasons, and he don't have the vision to find open team mates that sums up kobe's game nicely, he's also not as clutch a shooter as you may think, he had never had a clutch playoff shot ever.

[Obstructed_View]

Kobe gets the 7th seed and he dont make the teamates better.

Kobe gets #1 seed and he doesnt make his teamates better.

I guess we're in agreement that in your eyes he will never make his teamates better.
Just to clarify for you: Kobe doesn't get the seventh or the first seed, the team does. According to most of the Lakers fans around here, when the team sucks it's because Kobe's teammates are trash. Many instances of that very argument can be found in this thread.

I have no problem saying he makes his teammates better if he actually does it, but I'm only slightly less likely to credit Kobe for the improvement of the Lakers than I am to credit Paul Pierce for the improvement of the Celtics. If Kobe could be credited with developing young players like Farmar and Bynum, then we could talk. If Kobe could be credited with replacing Smush with Fish or for replacing Kwame with Pau then we could talk. If Kobe could be credited for rehabbing Vlad from his snowboarding injury then we could talk. Giving him credit for making the team better when the team consists of better players is ludicrous.

I guess it's Caron Butler or Frank Hamblin's fault the Lakers finished up the first season without Shaq a scintillating 2-19. If not for Kobe's leadership, they might have gone 0-21. Psst. The Lakers had a better winning percentage without him, and Pau Gasol's team made the playoffs that year. Speaking of Pau, one might make the argument that he's kind of a step up from Kwame Brown, and helped make up for the loss of Bynum. But don't tell the MVP voters that.

If you want to make an argument for Kobe, at least make the "best player on the best team" argument. The west has been tight all year, and the Lakers are at the top of it. Kobe deserves consideration for that. At least that argument isn't a joke.

[DiRkGOHARD]

Lebron is bad, really bad, he barely can maintain over .500 IN THE EAST, which is bad, he is super overrated, and will not win a championship.

[DiRkGOHARD]

Paul for MVP, but kobe is WET

[mavs>spurs2]

Lebron is bad, really bad, he barely can maintain over .500 IN THE EAST, which is bad, he is super overrated, and will not win a championship.

I agree.

[Gino]

Just to clarify for you: Kobe doesn't get the seventh or the first seed, the team does. According to most of the Lakers fans around here, when the team sucks it's because Kobe's teammates are trash. Many instances of that very argument can be found in this thread.

I have no problem saying he makes his teammates better if he actually does it, but I'm only slightly less likely to credit Kobe for the improvement of the Lakers than I am to credit Paul Pierce for the improvement of the Celtics. If Kobe could be credited with developing young players like Farmar and Bynum, then we could talk. If Kobe could be credited with replacing Smush with Fish or for replacing Kwame with Pau then we could talk. If Kobe could be credited for rehabbing Vlad from his snowboarding injury then we could talk. Giving him credit for making the team better when the team consists of better players is ludicrous.

I guess it's Caron Butler or Frank Hamblin's fault the Lakers finished up the first season without Shaq a scintillating 2-19. If not for Kobe's leadership, they might have gone 0-21. Psst. The Lakers had a better winning percentage without him, and Pau Gasol's team made the playoffs that year. Speaking of Pau, one might make the argument that he's kind of a step up from Kwame Brown, and helped make up for the loss of Bynum. But don't tell the MVP voters that.

If you want to make an argument for Kobe, at least make the "best player on the best team" argument. The west has been tight all year, and the Lakers are at the top of it. Kobe deserves consideration for that. At least that argument isn't a joke.

:lol

Nice post.

[DazedAndConfused]

Just to clarify for you: Kobe doesn't get the seventh or the first seed, the team does. According to most of the Lakers fans around here, when the team sucks it's because Kobe's teammates are trash. Many instances of that very argument can be found in this thread.

I have no problem saying he makes his teammates better if he actually does it, but I'm only slightly less likely to credit Kobe for the improvement of the Lakers than I am to credit Paul Pierce for the improvement of the Celtics. If Kobe could be credited with developing young players like Farmar and Bynum, then we could talk. If Kobe could be credited with replacing Smush with Fish or for replacing Kwame with Pau then we could talk. If Kobe could be credited for rehabbing Vlad from his snowboarding injury then we could talk. Giving him credit for making the team better when the team consists of better players is ludicrous.

I guess it's Caron Butler or Frank Hamblin's fault the Lakers finished up the first season without Shaq a scintillating 2-19. If not for Kobe's leadership, they might have gone 0-21. Psst. The Lakers had a better winning percentage without him, and Pau Gasol's team made the playoffs that year. Speaking of Pau, one might make the argument that he's kind of a step up from Kwame Brown, and helped make up for the loss of Bynum. But don't tell the MVP voters that.

If you want to make an argument for Kobe, at least make the "best player on the best team" argument. The west has been tight all year, and the Lakers are at the top of it. Kobe deserves consideration for that. At least that argument isn't a joke.

I can see your POV, and to an outsider looking in at the Lakers it's probably the assessment I would make. Something I've learned watching the Lakers the last 3 years is that you can't make lemonade out of dogshit. When the talent just isn't there, there is nothing you can do as an individual player to change that situation.

The reason the Lakers are better this year is a combination of the talent upgrade they received as well as Kobe adapting his game to play the role of a facilitator. It's not simply one or the other, it's both. You give Kobe talent to play with, he takes them to the next level.

[GaryJohnston]

Just to clarify for you: Kobe doesn't get the seventh or the first seed, the team does. According to most of the Lakers fans around here, when the team sucks it's because Kobe's teammates are trash. Many instances of that very argument can be found in this thread.

I have no problem saying he makes his teammates better if he actually does it, but I'm only slightly less likely to credit Kobe for the improvement of the Lakers than I am to credit Paul Pierce for the improvement of the Celtics. If Kobe could be credited with developing young players like Farmar and Bynum, then we could talk. If Kobe could be credited with replacing Smush with Fish or for replacing Kwame with Pau then we could talk. If Kobe could be credited for rehabbing Vlad from his snowboarding injury then we could talk. Giving him credit for making the team better when the team consists of better players is ludicrous.

I guess it's Caron Butler or Frank Hamblin's fault the Lakers finished up the first season without Shaq a scintillating 2-19. If not for Kobe's leadership, they might have gone 0-21. Psst. The Lakers had a better winning percentage without him, and Pau Gasol's team made the playoffs that year. Speaking of Pau, one might make the argument that he's kind of a step up from Kwame Brown, and helped make up for the loss of Bynum. But don't tell the MVP voters that.

If you want to make an argument for Kobe, at least make the "best player on the best team" argument. The west has been tight all year, and the Lakers are at the top of it. Kobe deserves consideration for that. At least that argument isn't a joke.


+1

[Allanon]

and check out what happened the years shaq was gone, kobe made his team worst by ballhogging all the time, his 81 points was a fluke because he shot everytime he got the ball, that's not an indication of greatness, it just shows he's a selfish player who wouldnt make his team mates better, look what happen this season, his scoring is down, but the lakers are better because he has someone to share the ball to, i am just saying he is way overated because he was basically expected to go 1 on 5 everytime the previous seasons, and he don't have the vision to find open team mates that sums up kobe's game nicely, he's also not as clutch a shooter as you may think, he had never had a clutch playoff shot ever.

81 points is a fluke? The Lakers were down against the Raptors in the 3rd quarter...most of those points were needed for the win until later in the 4th when the game was decided.
Kobe has made plenty of clutch shots in his career...most with Shaq, some with the Post Shaq Lakers. Not so much these days because there aren't very many close games anymore.
Most people would agree, with the game on the line, you give the Ball to Kobe over anybody else, that's no fluke

Kobe had a crap team that he took the Playoffs, nobody expected them to win anything but he never gave up during the season.

Kobe, "Hmm, should I take the shot or should I pass it to a wide open Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Luke Walton? Hmm, that's a hard question".

But of course Laker fans and everybody is wrong because everybody says Kobe's the best player in the NBA and the haters are right....Kobe's had 5-6 All Star players all along, he was just selfish. :rolleyes

[JamStone]

How do you define or qualify whether or not a player makes his teammates better? Are we there at team practices and locker rooms and buses? Can you say without a doubt that Kobe doesn't make his teammates better? When you watch the Lakers, Kobe is always in the ears of his teammates telling them what they need to know or advising them and sometimes yelling at them. And, making teammates better isn't always a tangible, quantifiable thing. Kobe actually probably made Andrew Bynum better by his harsh and public criticisms, as it served as motivation. Also, Kobe's work ethic is well documented and serves as a standard his teammates should follow. Several of Kobe's teammates have said he's been a very good leader and has helped them become better players. To say he's made his teammates better is not a joke. It's not just about getting more assists or being well liked. There are other not so tangible ways a player can help make his teammates become better.

[Matchman]

and check out what happened the years shaq was gone, kobe made his team worst by ballhogging all the time, his 81 points was a fluke because he shot everytime he got the ball, that's not an indication of greatness, it just shows he's a selfish player who wouldnt make his team mates better, look what happen this season, his scoring is down, but the lakers are better because he has someone to share the ball to, i am just saying he is way overated because he was basically expected to go 1 on 5 everytime the previous seasons, and he don't have the vision to find open team mates that sums up kobe's game nicely, he's also not as clutch a shooter as you may think, he had never had a clutch playoff shot ever.

he expect to go 1 on 5 because he is essentially playing 1 on 5 when his crappy teammates cant hit shots to save their lives. I thought the #1 priority in basketball is winning, NOT making your teammates better. and in this case, kobe hogging the ball is the strategy that gives the lakers the best chance at winning ball game.

and here is da clutch shots u are looking for:
OFa5FB-qrt4

[TheMACHINE]

he's also not as clutch a shooter as you may think, he had never had a clutch playoff shot ever.

LOL...are u joking? Have you just started watching the NBA this year? Sheesh...i can remember 2 for sure.

Suns 2 yrs ago and the Pistons game 2 finals.

[TDMVPDPOY]

wasnt he the jackass who wanted a trade early in the season

[Obstructed_View]

and he don't have the vision to find open team mates that sums up kobe's game nicely, he's also not as clutch a shooter as you may think, he had never had a clutch playoff shot ever.
Allow me to distance myself from your comments...

He's a very good passer, he's extraordinarily clutch, and he's got a ton of big playoff moments. Granted it was when he was surrounded by good players and smart veterans, but it's still ridiculous to make statements about him that are patently untrue.

Kobe can be as good a scorer as I've ever seen, and that's a tough statement to make considering I watched Jordan for his whole career. Kobe's game is almost always on, which is more than you can say for 99 percent of the NBA, and he's probably the best three point shooter in the league but rarely gets credit for it. He should always be in the discussion for MVP, and it wouldn't be a travesty if he won it this year. I simply think that Lakers fans and Kobe lovers are making a flawed argument for MVP by suggesting that he's done something drastically different this season just because he now has teammates that can help him carry the team forward.

[spurms]

Allow me to distance myself from your comments...

He's a very good passer, he's extraordinarily clutch, and he's got a ton of big playoff moments. Granted it was when he was surrounded by good players and smart veterans, but it's still ridiculous to make statements about him that are patently untrue.

Kobe can be as good a scorer as I've ever seen, and that's a tough statement to make considering I watched Jordan for his whole career. Kobe's game is almost always on, which is more than you can say for 99 percent of the NBA, and he's probably the best three point shooter in the league but rarely gets credit for it. He should always be in the discussion for MVP, and it wouldn't be a travesty if he won it this year. I simply think that Lakers fans and Kobe lovers are making a flawed argument for MVP by suggesting that he's done something drastically different this season just because he now has teammates that can help him carry the team forward.

ok bandwagoner, i have watched the jordan era where they won 3 championsips from 96-98, and the shaq era where the lakers won 3, and i can tell you that the bulls were not as dominant as were the lakers, the competition was much tougher back then, jordan singlehandedly won them the game in 98 with pippen down with a back injury and he's the most clutch shooter i have ever seen, and the fact that he drop over 50% of his shots alot on jumpers and contested tells you that he's a much better shooter then kobe, the fact that he hit game winners on so many different occasion and carried the team on his back tells you he's mentally tougher then kobe, and the fact that shaq was the mvp in all 3 of lakers championship because kobe can't do shit without a dominant player like shaq scoring 26 ppg inside tells you that it's foolish trying to compare the both.

[spurms]

LOL...are u joking? Have you just started watching the NBA this year? Sheesh...i can remember 2 for sure.

Suns 2 yrs ago and the Pistons game 2 finals.

That's why they lost both series lmao.

[spurms]

he expect to go 1 on 5 because he is essentially playing 1 on 5 when his crappy teammates cant hit shots to save their lives. I thought the #1 priority in basketball is winning, NOT making your teammates better. and in this case, kobe hogging the ball is the strategy that gives the lakers the best chance at winning ball game.

and here is da clutch shots u are looking for:
OFa5FB-qrt4

And the rockets would not get a sniff at a championsip if jordan had not retired.

[Obstructed_View]

ok bandwagoner, i have watched the jordan era where they won 3 championsips from 96-98, and the shaq era where the lakers won 3, and i can tell you that the bulls were not as dominant as were the lakers, the competition was much tougher back then, jordan singlehandedly won them the game in 98 with pippen down with a back injury and he's the most clutch shooter i have ever seen, and the fact that he drop over 50% of his shots alot on jumpers and contested tells you that he's a much better shooter then kobe, the fact that he hit game winners on so many different occasion and carried the team on his back tells you he's mentally tougher then kobe, and the fact that shaq was the mvp in all 3 of lakers championship because kobe can't do shit without a dominant player like shaq scoring 26 ppg inside tells you that it's foolish trying to compare the both.
Wow, way to completely fail to address anything I said. Kobe's not as good as the greatest player of the modern era. Careful, you might strain something with that one. :lol Go back and re-read the post. The only comparison I made to Jordan was his scoring ability, and Kobe is frightfully efficient when he's got it going.

You said he didn't have good court vision, he isn't clutch at all and has never hit a clutch playoff shot. That's just stupidity.

[spurms]

Wow, way to completely fail to address anything I said. Kobe's not as good as the greatest player of the modern era. Careful, you might strain something with that one. :lol Go back and re-read the post. The only comparison I made to Jordan was his scoring ability, and Kobe is frightfully efficient when he's got it going.

You said he didn't have good court vision, he isn't clutch at all and has never hit a clutch playoff shot. That's just stupidity.

name me a clutch game where kobe completely took over a game, and won them a crucial playoff game or title? You wont be able to name me one, if shaq had gone down with a back injury on any given time kobe can kiss his championship ring goodbye, and about kobe and his court vision, i have seen players like nash, mcgrady and lebron who have more court vision than kobe will ever have, i am not saying he don't see the court well, but he much rather jack up shots than find open team mates, he forces the issue too much, and sure he hit some spectacular long range bombs from time to time, but players like jordan dont have to do that, whose game was based on effectiveness(though his best plays totally owns kobe), which amounted to 30 ppg and 6 assist throughout his career, kobe's game is based on flashes of brilliance but when his game is not on or he have to face up with someone like battier or bowen he wither like a bitch.

[Obstructed_View]

name me a clutch game where kobe completely took over a game, and won them a crucial playoff game or title?
First of all, dumbass, that's not what you said. If you are going to say something stupid then stick to it.


You wont be able to name me one,
Kobe scored 48 points in a game seven against Sacramento in 2001.


if shaq had gone down with a back injury on any given time kobe can kiss his championship ring goodbye,
Again, that has nothing to do with anything. The Lakers might not have won without the most dominant player in the league. Again, don't strain yourself. :rolleyes


and about kobe and his court vision, i have seen players like nash, mcgrady and lebron who have more court vision than kobe will ever have

Wow, three of the best players in the league. What was I thinking?


i am not saying he don't see the court well

I guess "he don't have the vision to find open team mates" means something different to you than it does to the rest of the world.


but he much rather jack up shots than find open team mates, he forces the issue too much, and sure he hit some spectacular long range bombs from time to time, but players like jordan dont have to do that, whose game was based on effectiveness(though his best plays totally owns kobe), which amounted to 30 ppg and 6 assist throughout his career, kobe's game is based on flashes of brilliance but when his game is not on or he have to face up with someone like battier or bowen he wither like a bitch.

Dude, you must not even watch basketball, because the above is even stupider than the rest of your post. He's not as great as Jordan. Okay, but that doesn't mean he isn't great.

The argument here is whether or not Kobe deserves the MVP, and more particularly, whether he deserves it for making his teammates better. That he is, at the very least, one of the top two or three players in the league every single year since about third season in the NBA isn't debatable by people who know anything about basketball.

[spurms]

First of all, dumbass, that's not what you said. If you are going to say something stupid then stick to it.


Kobe scored 48 points in a game seven against Sacramento in 2001.


Again, that has nothing to do with anything. The Lakers might not have won without the most dominant player in the league. Again, don't strain yourself. :rolleyes



Wow, three of the best players in the league. What was I thinking?



I guess "he don't have the vision to find open team mates" means something different to you than it does to the rest of the world.



Dude, you must not even watch basketball, because the above is even stupider than the rest of your post. He's not as great as Jordan. Okay, but that doesn't mean he isn't great.

The argument here is whether or not Kobe deserves the MVP, and more particularly, whether he deserves it for making his teammates better. That he is, at the very least, one of the top two or three players in the league every single year since about third season in the NBA isn't debatable by people who know anything about basketball.

Dont go confrontational and calling me names u dick, that is exactly what i meant, which is kobe is overated especially when faker fans start revering him like a g.o.a.t and dub him more skillful then michael jordan(wow i had a good laugh at that article) you know he's overated, i never once said he's not a good player, don't go make sense of something you cant understand, then lgive me a lecture about the same issue, ur article sucks btw.

[Obstructed_View]

Dont go confrontational and calling me names u dick

Just can't make this shit up.


that is exactly what i meant, which is kobe is overated especially when faker fans start revering him like a g.o.a.t and dub him more skillful then michael jordan(wow i had a good laugh at that article)
Then go somewhere else and argue about that one, because it's not the discussion going on here.


don't go make sense of something you cant understand
That applies to almost everything you've written. Don't worry. It's not likely anyone will be able to, particularly while you appear to be posting with a cell phone.


ur article sucks btw.
Um, okay. I guess my job at ESPN isn't safe. :wtf

[TheMACHINE]

name me a clutch game where kobe completely took over a game, and won them a crucial playoff game or title? You wont be able to name me one, if shaq had gone down with a back injury on any given time kobe can kiss his championship ring goodbye, and about kobe and his court vision, i have seen players like nash, mcgrady and lebron who have more court vision than kobe will ever have, i am not saying he don't see the court well, but he much rather jack up shots than find open team mates, he forces the issue too much, and sure he hit some spectacular long range bombs from time to time, but players like jordan dont have to do that, whose game was based on effectiveness(though his best plays totally owns kobe), which amounted to 30 ppg and 6 assist throughout his career, kobe's game is based on flashes of brilliance but when his game is not on or he have to face up with someone like battier or bowen he wither like a bitch.

LOL...u went from "he's also not as clutch a shooter as you may think, he had never had a clutch playoff shot ever. " to "name me a clutch game where kobe completely took over a game, and won them a crucial playoff game or title?"

talk about backpeddling. LOL. Did you just realize how stupid your original statement was?! :spin

[mavs>spurs2]

What the hell is this dude talking about, Kobe is the most clutch player in the NBA right now. And his teammate Fisher is pretty clutch too, I'd be scared to be in a close game with the Lakers in the 4th quarter.

[kingmalaki]

Why do writers and others constantly overstate the amount of games missed by Bynum and Gasol? The two never played together. Bynum went down, and LA struggled. They got an all-star big for nothing and played well again. Gasol went down for a few games and they struggled again. He came back and they started winning again because the team suddenly had 3 key pieces (Odom being one, who has hardly missed any time) and a good bench. In reality Kobe has been without a key 3rd piece for 20+ games, and the record is in the .500 range in those games. This is not to say he isn't MVP worthy, but he hasn't been dragging some injury plagued team to #1 in the West. If that's your criteria then give the award to T-Mac....

[DazedAndConfused]

Bynum - Out for half the season
Ariza - Out for half the season
Gasol - Missed 3-4 weeks with ankle injuries
Kwame - Missed at least 4 weeks due to ankle injuries
Mihm - Never healthy enough to make a contribution all season
Kobe - Playing on a dislocated pinky
Fisher - Playing with torn tendon in foot
Radman/Luke - Missed at least 3 weeks cumulatively

A halfcourt team missing their entire frontcourt for key stretches in the season yet still finishing #1 in the WC is one hell of a fucking accomplishment. You're just a pathetic faggot fucking hater.

[kingmalaki]

Bynum - Out for half the season
and they replaced him with Gaosl
Ariza - Out for half the season
Is he a big difference maker? You still have quality at that position (Luke, V-Rad, Sasha), just not quality defenders...but does it matter as the replacements can really score/shoot.
Gasol - Missed 3-4 weeks with ankle injuries
And you struggled without him. Again, a key 3rd piece
Kwame - Missed at least 4 weeks due to ankle injuries
Is he a big difference maker, and was Bynum playing when he wasn't? Again, Bynum or Gasol have been the key 3rd pieces.
Mihm - Never healthy enough to make a contribution all season
Do you need Mihm when you have a stud big-man for all but 20 games? And is Mihm a key player anyway?[/b]
Kobe - Playing on a dislocated pinky
What does that have to do with what I said?
Fisher - Playing with torn tendon in foot
How does that stop him from making most of his 3's?
Radman/Luke - Missed at least 3 weeks cumulatively
See Ariza comments.

A halfcourt team missing their entire frontcourt for key stretches in the season yet still finishing #1 in the WC is one hell of a fucking accomplishment. You're just a pathetic faggot fucking hater.

And with all that, they still had three key pieces (either Kobe/Odom/Bynum or Kobe/Odom/Gasol), plus solid PG play and a bench (unlike the last 3 seasons) for all but 20+ games. And in those 20+ games they were right around .500.

[DazedAndConfused]

You also need to consider the timing of the injuries. Both Bynum and Gasol went out when the Lakers were at the start of key road trips against the top WC teams. The Lakers were forced to completely change their style of play and adjust and re-adjust constantly. Just take off the hater glasses for one moment and realize that Kobe and the Lakers had to deal with a lot of adversity this season and to come out on top is nothing short of amazing.

[TheMACHINE]

And with all that, they still had three key pieces (either Kobe/Odom/Bynum or Kobe/Odom/Gasol), plus solid PG play and a bench (unlike the last 3 seasons) for all but 20+ games. And in those 20+ games they were right around .500.

How bout Chris Paul? How many injurys does his team have this year?

[Obstructed_View]

How bout Chris Paul? How many injurys does his team have this year?
This is the first healthy season the Hornets have had in years. Begrudging them that is in poor taste. The Lakers are not the most injury plagued team in the league, but you'd never know that by listening to the grumping and groaning of the Lakers fans.

[DazedAndConfused]

Of all the WC playoff teams the Lakers have sustained the most injuries to key players this season. It's a hell of lot harder to win when you lose your front court compared to your backcourt.

[Jack Sommersset]

Kobe should win. He kept his team together all year, through trade rumors,injuries and he is the best player in the league. Plus they are top seeds. Add it together, it equals MVP!

[endrity]

Bill Simmons is right though; when you look back at the 07-08 regular season there will be hardly anything special to remember from Kobe. The Celtic's season as well as CP3's rise to the top of the PG position will be what I remember most. To me this is a lifetime achievement award, and that's fine as long as people admit it is. It is a shame that Kobe could retire without one MVP, but there is hardly anything great about this season from Kobe. It would have been much better if he just won it in 06.

[TheMACHINE]

Bill Simmons is right though; when you look back at the 07-08 regular season there will be hardly anything special to remember from Kobe. The Celtic's season as well as CP3's rise to the top of the PG position will be what I remember most. To me this is a lifetime achievement award, and that's fine as long as people admit it is. It is a shame that Kobe could retire without one MVP, but there is hardly anything great about this season from Kobe. It would have been much better if he just won it in 06.

Isnt it ironic that the year Kobe gets MVP, he didnt do a 8-9 games streak of 40+ points...he didnt do an 81 point game, yet his team is #1. So maybe...just maybe..the fact that he didnt do anything superhuman and just played teamball HELPED him get a better record.

[endrity]

Isnt it ironic that the year Kobe gets MVP, he didnt do a 8-9 games streak of 40+ points...he didnt do an 81 point game, yet his team is #1. So maybe...just maybe..the fact that he didnt do anything superhuman and just played teamball HELPED him get a better record.

No, the Lakers got better because AB, Sasha, Farmar, impoved and then went out and committed the robbery of the decade by taking Gasol for coing change.

[Allanon]

No, the Lakers got better because AB, Sasha, Farmar, impoved and then went out and committed the robbery of the decade by taking Gasol for coing change.

Of course, these same players that sucked last year automatically made themselves better this year. It has nothing to do with Kobe who went from 27 shots a few years ago to 20 shots per game. It had nothing to do with Kobe playing his best Defense in years or playing the entire 82 games no matter what injury he had. It had nothing to do with Kobe giving up his own personal stats for the good of the team.

I'm not even sure why there is any argument left. Kobe finished the season with the #1 seed in the most difficult Western Conference ever. There aren't any other All Stars on his team, only 1 "former All Star" as was pointed out.

And they got the #1 seed instead of the #9 seed as everybody predicted. Even the Hornets were projected to be higher than the Lakers.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-LALPreview0708

Kobe's got the MVP trophy and needs to figure which spot on the shelf to put it. He'll just have to wait for the first game of the WCF for them to give it to him at Staples in the first round of Lakers vs Suns.

Book it!

[Obstructed_View]

I love how MVP is now being given based on the flawed preseason predictions of the very people that give out the award.

[DazedAndConfused]

^It's not.

Kobe, CP3, and Garnett are all equally deserving IMHO. Kobe will get it because he took his team to the top of the most difficult and competitive conference in recent history.

[kingmalaki]

You also need to consider the timing of the injuries. Both Bynum and Gasol went out when the Lakers were at the start of key road trips against the top WC teams. The Lakers were forced to completely change their style of play and adjust and re-adjust constantly. Just take off the hater glasses for one moment and realize that Kobe and the Lakers had to deal with a lot of adversity this season and to come out on top is nothing short of amazing.

I am taking all of that into consideration. Kobe had to carry a short squad (if that's what you want to call it, as Odom and that bench are pretty good) for 20 games or so. That is not the same as most keep spouting...about Bynum and Gasol missing like 60 games combined. They never played together. If you want to say Kobe was without a key third piece for 20+ games then fine.

Yes, Paul had his whole team for most of the season. I don't think I ever stated that the Hornets had more injuries than the Lakers. I stated that y'all are making it seem like Kobe carried bums to the #1 seed when that is not the case.

[Allanon]

I am taking all of that into consideration. Kobe had to carry a short squad (if that's what you want to call it, as Odom and that bench are pretty good) for 20 games or so. That is not the same as most keep spouting...about Bynum and Gasol missing like 60 games combined. They never played together. If you want to say Kobe was without a key third piece for 20+ games then fine.

Yes, Paul had his whole team for most of the season. I don't think I ever stated that the Hornets had more injuries than the Lakers. I stated that y'all are making it seem like Kobe carried bums to the #1 seed when that is not the case.

You may laugh at .500 ball but .500 ball while missing your two starters is incredibly good. Look at where Miami went when Shaq and DWade went down at the same time.

Pau is the #2 option, Lamar Odom is the #3 option
Even though Pau and Bynum didn't play together, they're both starters.

The Lakers went 20 games without their Starting Center and Starting Power Forward, and they maintained .500 ball. Take David West and Tyson Chandler off the Hornets (at the SAME time) for 1/4 of the season and tell me they could have maintained .500. Would they still even be in the Playoffs?

[resistanze]

I love how MVP is now being given based on the flawed preseason predictions of the very people that give out the award.

Yup, that precedent was set in 2005-06 :lol

[Allanon]

Yup, that precedent was set in 2005-06 :lol

+1 :downspin:

[Obstructed_View]

Kobe will get it because he took his team to the top of the most difficult and competitive conference in recent history.
If that's the reasoning, then there's no argument from me. However, let's not fool ourselves into believing that Manu would have gotten it if the Spurs had been in first, or Deron Williams would have gotten it if Utah had.


Yup, that precedent was set in 2005-06 :lol
Yep, that's what I was referring to. I think I prefer the "best player on the team with the best record" thing. Again, as good as the west has been that still makes a strong case for Kobe.

[DazedAndConfused]

If that's the reasoning, then there's no argument from me. However, let's not fool ourselves into believing that Manu would have gotten it if the Spurs had been in first, or Deron Williams would have gotten it if Utah had.


Yep, that's what I was referring to. I think I prefer the "best player on the team with the best record" thing. Again, as good as the west has been that still makes a strong case for Kobe.

Neither Ginobli or Williams are the best player on their respective teams.

Kobe, Garnett, CP3 - nobody can really argue that these players are the foundation upon which their teams are built around.

[Obstructed_View]

Neither Ginobli or Williams are the best player on their respective teams.
Manu was the only Spur in the MVP discussion, and if you aren't going to use the number one seed in the west to support Kobe's MVP, then it's valid.

It's amazing how good a teammate Kobe suddenly becomes when he has good teammates.

[kingmalaki]

You may laugh at .500 ball but .500 ball while missing your two starters is incredibly good. Look at where Miami went when Shaq and DWade went down at the same time.

Miami had two stars (Shaq & Wade) and a weak bench. So when one star went down they were left with one star, surrounded by role players. When Bynum or Gasol went down, Kobe was still left with Odom (not an all-star but just as good as either Peja or Chandler) and a very good bench.


Pau is the #2 option, Lamar Odom is the #3 option
Even though Pau and Bynum didn't play together, they're both starters.

You keep saying Kobe was missing two starters when that isn't the case. The two dudes never played 1 game together. If anything, he was without a key 3rd piece for 20+ games.


The Lakers went 20 games without their Starting Center and Starting Power Forward, and they maintained .500 ball.

No, they went 20 games without a key third piece. They lost one big man and were given another to replace the one they lost, with hopes to dominate once they both came back. With all this spin y'all should go work on the Clinton campaign.


Take David West and Tyson Chandler off the Hornets (at the SAME time) for 1/4 of the season and tell me they could have maintained .500. Would they still even be in the Playoffs?

Quite possible, if you let the team still have one star player (either West or Peja) and a quality bench. The Rockets went 19-7 without Yao and he was never replaced with a star so it's quite doable. .500 ball is not as acceptable as you make it seem, when you still have Oodm and a bench.

Answer this question....with Kobe, Odom, Bynum or Gasol (either or, not both), and LA's bench....how many teams outside of SA, Bos, Det amd ,aybe Pho have as much talent as that team? LA won a lot of games when all 3 were together and played average when one of them was missing. Koeb is a worthy MVP candidate. He had to deal with some injuries to key people (around 20+ games) while others MVP candidates like Paul didn't. However, the Lakers had 3 kep pieces and a bench for the majority of the season. And if T-Mac (lesser player) can lose Yao and carry the likes of Battier (only really quality player), Mutombo (41 yr old), Scola & Landry (two rookies, and landry also was hurt after yao went down), Alston (worse PG than Fisher, and Alston also went down for a while), B.Jackson (like 36 years old), Brooks (undersized rookie), Hayes and Harris (undrafted dudes) and Novak (2nd rounder who can only shoot) to a 73% winning clip over 26 games, then Kobe leading a more talented LA squad to .500 ball doesn't really impress me. Again, he is MVP worthy but you guys overstate him leading some hurt scrubs to the #1 seed. The spin attempt is not necessary....

[The Franchise]

I hate Chris Paul but he deserves the MVP more than anyone. If anyone says they expected the Hornets to have the year they had they would be lying. Take Paul out of the equation and what do you have? A big pile of shit for a team sitting in the NBA cellar. Kobe, and Garnett have had good seasons, but they are blessed with good supporting casts and strong benches. Tyson Chandler without Chris Paul? Playing in Europe. David West? Solid role player. Peja? Retired. Mopete? Just what he is (shit). This man and his contributions are exactly what the award was made for. Voting for anyone else would be voting for the popular and not the proper.

[TheMACHINE]

I hate Kobe Bryant but he deserves the MVP more than anyone. If anyone says they expected the Lakers to have the year they had they would be lying. Take Kobe out of the equation and what do you have? A big pile of shit for a team sitting in the NBA cellar. Chris Paul and Garnett have had good seasons, but they are blessed with good supporting casts and strong benches. Radman without Kobe? Playing in Europe. Lamar Odom? Solid role player. Fisher? Retired. Sasha? Just what he is (shit). This man and his contributions are exactly what the award was made for. Voting for anyone else would be voting for the popular and not the proper.

Crazy how you can sub in names and its sound just about right.

[21_Blessings]

Kobe deserves the MVP. He's also the best basketball player on the planet. Hate on you crazy haters.

Chimpy Hollinger is a little bitch. Michael Jordan's bitch. He fantasizes about His Airness' cock in his mouth. And he just picked the Jazz to beat the Lakers in the second round.

[Allanon]

Miami had two stars (Shaq & Wade) and a weak bench. So when one star went down they were left with one star, surrounded by role players. When Bynum or Gasol went down, Kobe was still left with Odom (not an all-star but just as good as either Peja or Chandler) and a very good bench.

Bynum AND Gasol were not in for 20 games. Bynum OR Gasol were in for the other games. Change it or spin it however you want, both are starters so that's 2. And when they're back, they will BOTH be playing at the same time.



You keep saying Kobe was missing two starters when that isn't the case. The two dudes never played 1 game together. If anything, he was without a key 3rd piece for 20+ games.

Was Bynum a Starter? Is Pau a Starter? That's 1+1=2 Starters missing for 20 games.



No, they went 20 games without a key third piece. They lost one big man and were given another to replace the one they lost, with hopes to dominate once they both came back. With all this spin y'all should go work on the Clinton campaign.

Again, you can't seem to count, Bynum and Pau were missing for 20 games in the season. They would be Starters, that's 2 pieces whether you want to dismiss them as #2,#3 options.


[quote]
Quite possible, if you let the team still have one star player (either West or Peja) and a quality bench. The Rockets went 19-7 without Yao and he was never replaced with a star so it's quite doable. .500 ball is not as acceptable as you make it seem, when you still have Oodm and a bench.

Sure, if you leave them with Peja or Chandler. But that's not the case with the Lakers, Answer the question with BOTH Peja or Chandler missing and then you can dismiss the .500 ball.



Answer this question....with Kobe, Odom, Bynum or Gasol (either or, not both), and LA's bench....how many teams outside of SA, Bos, Det amd ,aybe Pho have as much talent as that team? LA won a lot of games when all 3 were together and played average when one of them was missing.

LA is extremely talented when they have either Pau OR Bynum. LA is ridiculously talented with BOTH Bynum and Pau.



Koeb is a worthy MVP candidate. He had to deal with some injuries to key people (around 20+ games) while others MVP candidates like Paul didn't.


This is incorrect, Lakers have been dealing with Injuries to either Pau or Bynum for 60 games. Just because the Lakers have Pau, it doesn't mean that their starting Center ISN'T injured. He is injured and he's hoping to come back soon.



However, the Lakers had 3 kep pieces and a bench for the majority of the season. And if T-Mac (lesser player) can lose Yao and carry the likes of Battier (only really quality player), Mutombo (41 yr old), Scola & Landry (two rookies, and landry also was hurt after yao went down), Alston (worse PG than Fisher, and Alston also went down for a while), B.Jackson (like 36 years old), Brooks (undersized rookie), Hayes and Harris (undrafted dudes) and Novak (2nd rounder who can only shoot) to a 73% winning clip over 26 games, then Kobe leading a more talented LA squad to .500 ball doesn't really impress me. Again, he is MVP worthy but you guys overstate him leading some hurt scrubs to the #1 seed. The spin attempt is not necessary....

The Rockets 22 game run was nothing short of Miraculous, big kudos to them. I'm not going to discount it at all, they won and did something very special.

We're talking about 2 starters, Yao is only 1 starter, take out Scola as well for 20 games and you have a similar situation. But you can't replace apples with oranges. Whether you spin it or not, the Lakers were missing their Starting Power Forward AND Starting Center for 20 games. I don't doubt that the Lakers have a deeper bench at all.

We've all seen what missing 2 starters will do your team, playing .500 while having 2 key players out is GREAT.

[kingmalaki]

Bynum AND Gasol were not in for 20 games. Bynum OR Gasol were in for the other games. Change it or spin it however you want, both are starters so that's 2. And when they're back, they will BOTH be playing at the same time.



Was Bynum a Starter? Is Pau a Starter? That's 1+1=2 Starters missing for 20 games.



Again, you can't seem to count, Bynum and Pau were missing for 20 games in the season. They would be Starters, that's 2 pieces whether you want to dismiss them as #2,#3 options.



Sure, if you leave them with Peja or Chandler. But that's not the case with the Lakers, Answer the question with BOTH Peja or Chandler missing and then you can dismiss the .500 ball.



LA is extremely talented when they have either Pau OR Bynum. LA is ridiculously talented with BOTH Bynum and Pau.



This is incorrect, Lakers have been dealing with Injuries to either Pau or Bynum for 60 games. Just because the Lakers have Pau, it doesn't mean that their starting Center ISN'T injured. He is injured and he's hoping to come back soon.



The Rockets 22 game run was nothing short of Miraculous, big kudos to them. I'm not going to discount it at all, they won and did something very special.

We're talking about 2 starters, Yao is only 1 starter, take out Scola as well for 20 games and you have a similar situation. But you can't replace apples with oranges. Whether you spin it or not, the Lakers were missing their Starting Power Forward AND Starting Center for 20 games. I don't doubt that the Lakers have a deeper bench at all.

We've all seen what missing 2 starters will do your team, playing .500 while having 2 key players out is GREAT.

Simple question...did the Lakers have three top players on the court together for around 60 games of the season (either Kobe/Odom/Bynum or Kobe/Odom/Gasol)? Yes or no?

Yeah, they didn't get to have the full team together as Bynum and Gasol never played one game together. But that is not the spin some of y'all are trying to make. That 3some that played for around 60 games (pick either one), plus LA's bench, is more talent than 90% of the league. Kobe/Odom and the bench is more than enough talent to play much better than near .500 ball. You keep focusing on who was missing and ignoring who was still there. You act like Kobe, Odom and that bench still isn't a very talented team...much more talented to only play .500 ball. It's the same way that the Celtics shouldn't be expected to only play .500 ball if one of the big 3 goes down because of the rest of the remaining talent.

I mentioned Yao and the Rockets not to try to compare who is missing who, but to show that Kobes surrounding talent minus Bynum/Gasol was still better than the T-Mac's surrounding talent minus Yao...so playing a little over .500 ball doesn't impress me as much when a worse star led a worse team to a better % over the same stretch of games.

Again, Kobe is MVp worthy but he has not been playing on some talentless, injury riddled team all season.

[Allanon]

Talentless, no. But injury riddled yes. At one point, they were compoletely out of Centers. Not only are they 2 starters, they're also the 2 big men in the paint. Playing .500 with your two big men out is great.

Regardless of how they did or who is on the team, the fact remains that those 20 games were without 2 starters. There's no spin on it, 20 is 20, that's a fact.