Ronnie Brewer

[monosylab1k]

Anybody familiar with the Utah Jazz scene, is this guy an "untouchable"? Are they that excited about him? I'm sure they love this guy and any trade for him would have a hefty price tag attached to it.

All I know is that he'd be a perfect fit on the Mavericks. I just don't know if the Jazz like him, love him, would part with him in the right deal, etc.

[Cry Havoc]

He hasn't had a lot of PT lately, but he started almost every game this season for them. What would the Mavs have to offer that would interest the Jazz?

[monosylab1k]

What would the Mavs have to offer that would interest the Jazz?
Probably not much, but I'd love to know what the Jazz see Brewer's value being. I'd do a Howard for Brewer trade in a heartbeat, but I don't know how highly the Jazz view Brewer.

[Cry Havoc]

They would probably do that. Brewer is a great defender but he only gets 3 boards a game.

[monosylab1k]

They would probably do that. Brewer is a great defender but he only gets 3 boards a game.
Yeah that worried me when I saw it, but I think his ability to slash & finish, along with lockdown defense makes up for it. He's a much better fit with Kidd.

Plus he's a great athlete so if he just works harder at it, those rebound numbers will go up.

[Findog]

I like Brewer too, but I think we can get more for Howard than him.

[balli]

I can't wait to weigh in on this with a pompously too long post, but I got to get some work done first. In short, yes, he is probably untouchable.

[SenorSpur]

I remember the Spurs liked this kid so much that they were rumoured to have tried to move up to take him ahead of Utah. He's a fine player.

[sribb43]

nice player but nothing spectacular

[sribb43]

Probably not much, but I'd love to know what the Jazz see Brewer's value being. I'd do a Howard for Brewer trade in a heartbeat, but I don't know how highly the Jazz view Brewer.

now your seriously overrating the guy

[JMarkJohns]

Brewer reminds me of a more athletic Joe Johnson his first few seasons in Phoenix. JJ left too early, and really struggled to find touch on his shot and consistency in his game for the first few seasons. Brewer left after the same amount of years. It took JJ 2-1/2 years to really become a quality player and three years before stating to live up to his potential.

Brewer is a better athlete, thus better perimeter defender, but has the court vision to become a very good second option for some team. He needs to develop his shot like JJ, but if he does, he'll be crazy good.

I'm not sure Brewer will ever be as good as JJ, namely because JJ has 15-to-20 pounds on him, but his athleticism is a definite plus. I think if your opinion of Brewer is based upon his play to this point, it's a very limited view.

I don't think I'd trade Howard for Brewer straight up, but if Dallas can trade Howard and another quality player for Kirilenko and Brewer, then I'd do that. Jazz are looking to unload Kirilenko's contract, and Howard's is a quality contract as far as cost.

I don't know if it's possilble, but I certainly see why Mono is so high on Brewer. Maybe not why he's so down on Howard, but Brewer is a top-level prospect that maybe could be had for pennies on the dollar since he's been so inconsistent.

[sribb43]

Brewer doesnt have the ball handling ability or shooting ability like JJ but he is much better defensively

[stretch]

I don't think I'd trade Howard for Brewer straight up, but if Dallas can trade Howard and another quality player for Kirilenko and Brewer, then I'd do that. Jazz are looking to unload Kirilenko's contract, and Howard's is a quality contract as far as cost.
Fuck that. We don't need a crybaby on this team. Josh Howard has 2 close relatives die, including his grandmother who had a huge role in raising him, and never said a word to anyone about it. Other people from the team had to tell the media what was going on with him.

Meanwhile, you got AK-47 crying over fucking playing time when HE was the one that was sucking too badly to get any playing time.

[balli]

The deal with Brewer is this: He'll never be a good shooter. Ever. He broke his arm when he was a kid and it healed weird, which prevents him from having a normal or a quick release. He gets by with it and has a decent shot under the circumstances, but nevertheless, shooting won't ever be his strength. The comparisons to JJ are ridiculous. He's nowhere near as good a passer, ball handler or shooter. Never will be. Plays much better defense, finishes around the rim far better than JJ.

If the Jazz want to keep Brewer they have to either unload AK or commit to going over the cap. I'd prefer the former so we could lock up Brewer and Millsap. We have a team option on Brewer through 09-10 which is relatively cheap, but by that point we'll have needed to extend Deron. Right now the caps at 57 Million and Deron's contract alone will put us at about that. If we want to keep Brewer past 09-10 we have to move AK. Luckily, he expires after 10-11 so he should be pretty easy to move before that last season.

I would probably trade Brewer for Howard, but it could actually be a huge mistake. Ronnie plays so well around the rim and he's athletic (two things we're short on) that it might hurt us to lose him, no matter who we brought in. As much as I like Ronnie it sucks that our starting SG and SF can't shoot worth a lick. To be honest I'd rather lose AK for Howard rather than Brewer.

His main strength is defense. He can lock down his man and play the passing lanes at the same time. He's long enough to do it without being a huge risktaker. Sometimes he goes for steals a bit too much, but he's generally pretty good about staying on his man when its a star like Kobe, T-Mac etc. And he's smart enough to know Sloan'll kick ass all over the locker room if he doesn't.

Who Dallas fans should be clammoring for is the slept on CJ miles. I like what Brewer brings to the table for us and we already have Korver and Almond to shoot, so I'd rather have them, but in the long run CJ could be a full on superstar scoring machine in this league. Plus, I think Sloan's made him understand the importance of defense. Despite all that UT has too many shooting guards under contract and I highly doubt UT will spend to resign him this summer. If I were the Mavs I'd be all over the kid.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Probably not much, but I'd love to know what the Jazz see Brewer's value being. I'd do a Howard for Brewer trade in a heartbeat, but I don't know how highly the Jazz view Brewer.

:nope youre going way too far mono

[The Nba Is Rigged]

The deal with Brewer is this: He'll never be a good shooter. Ever. He broke his arm when he was a kid and it healed weird, which prevents him from having a normal or a quick release. He gets by with it and has a decent shot under the circumstances, but nevertheless, shooting won't ever be his strength. The comparisons to JJ are ridiculous. He's nowhere near as good a passer, ball handler or shooter. Never will be. Plays much better defense, finishes around the rim far better than JJ.

If the Jazz want to keep Brewer they have to either unload AK or commit to going over the cap. I'd prefer the former so we could lock up Brewer and Millsap. We have a team option on Brewer through 09-10 which is relatively cheap, but by that point we'll have needed to extend Deron. Right now the caps at 57 Million and Deron's contract alone will put us at about that. If we want to keep Brewer past 09-10 we have to move AK. Luckily, he expires after 10-11 so he should be pretty easy to move before that last season.

I would probably trade Brewer for Howard, but it could actually be a huge mistake. Ronnie plays so well around the rim and he's athletic (two things we're short on) that it might hurt us to lose him, no matter who we brought in. As much as I like Ronnie it sucks that our starting SG and SF can't shoot worth a lick. To be honest I'd rather lose AK for Howard rather than Brewer.

His main strength is defense. He can lock down his man and play the passing lanes at the same time. He's long enough to do it without being a huge risktaker. Sometimes he goes for steals a bit too much, but he's generally pretty good about staying on his man when its a star like Kobe, T-Mac etc. And he's smart enough to know Sloan'll kick ass all over the locker room if he doesn't.

Who Dallas fans should be clammoring for is the slept on CJ miles. I like what Brewer brings to the table for us and we already have Korver and Almond to shoot, so I'd rather have them, but in the long run CJ could be a full on superstar scoring machine in this league. Plus, I think Sloan's made him understand the importance of defense. Despite all that UT has too many shooting guards under contract and I highly doubt UT will spend to resign him this summer. If I were the Mavs I'd be all over the kid.

Yeah I've seen CJ play a couple of times and I've seen a shitload of potential in that kid. The problem is that even if we could get him that moron Avery would probably demoralize the kid and probably not let him grow. Fuck Avery.

[balli]

:nope youre going way too far mono

Yeah. Right now you guys need shooting, not just scoring. Brewer is definitely not that. To take away Howard's mid-range game would kill that team.

[balli]

Yeah I've seen CJ play a couple of times and I've seen a shitload of potential in that kid. The problem is that even if we could get him that moron Avery would probably demoralize the kid and probably not let him grow. Fuck Avery.

Any chance if he fucks up the playoffs badly that Cuban let's him go? I read somewhere that him and Cuban got in a post-game fight a few weeks back. The problem is- who do you get that's better? Larry Brown would just piss the vets off and although I like Carlisle I don't see his preferred way of playing fitting with that team.

[monosylab1k]

As great as he is, Josh Howard is part of what's wrong with this team. He disappears in the 4th quarter and rarely makes big plays when it matters.

This isn't necessarily about getting equal value, but rather getting rid of the failing pieces surrounding Dirk & Kidd. Plus, Howard getting a fresh start elsewhere could move him to play even better.

And Brewer is a TERRIFIC slasher & finisher. You want a badass fastbreak? How bout Kidd/Brewer/Terry sprinting down the court?

[monosylab1k]

Yeah. Right now you guys need shooting, not just scoring. Brewer is definitely not that. To take away Howard's mid-range game would kill that team.
The team needs motion on offense, and more easy buckets. I'd gladly get rid of a good jump shooter for a top-notch slasher/finisher.

[The Nba Is Rigged]

Any chance if he fucks up the playoffs badly that Cuban let's him go? I read somewhere that him and Cuban got in a post-game fight a few weeks back. The problem is- who do you get that's better? Larry Brown would just piss the vets off and although I like Carlisle I don't see his preferred way of playing fitting with that team.

I doubt Cuban will let him go, he'll probably just make excuses for Avery. Cuban sucks

[The Nba Is Rigged]

The team needs motion on offense, and more easy buckets. I'd gladly get rid of a good jump shooter for a top-notch slasher/finisher.

This is why I really didn't recommend the Jason Kidd trade, the offense needed to be changed and we needed at least a decent Sg or post presence.

[balli]

The team needs motion on offense, and more easy buckets. I'd gladly get rid of a good jump shooter for a top-notch slasher/finisher.

I do agree they should put in a motion offense, but I also think Howard could fit that Slasher/finisher role if they did implement said offense and Avery would just let him do it. He's athetic enough to run the break too. Plus on top of that he can knock down 18 footers. Terry can't do that consistently. If you guys moved Howard your only midrange shooter would be Dirk. At that point you'd be playing like the Warriors.


They would probably do that. Brewer is a great defender but he only gets 3 boards a game.

To be fair he does have to compete with Boozer, Memo and Millsap. I think if we needed him to do so he could get more.

[monosylab1k]

This is why I really didn't recommend the Jason Kidd trade, the offense needed to be changed and we needed at least a decent Sg or post presence.
The Mavs made the right move going after Kidd.

Their mistake was not also going after Mike Miller.

[balli]

Their mistake was not also going after Mike Miller.

Well, like I said. Go get yourselves some CJ miles this summer. You wouldn't regret it in the least.

[JMarkJohns]

Brewer doesnt have the ball handling ability or shooting ability like JJ but he is much better defensively

At one point, JJ didn't have those either. Johnson was so damn inconsistent it made Suns fans want to throw the TV. His inconsistencies stemmed from his game being based around his size, strength and athleticism, rather than upon any real skill. Brewer doesn't quite have the strength, but he is as tall and is the quicker athlete. Maybe he doesn't quite have the abilities JJ now possesses. Maybe he never will. My point wasn't to say he can, but to say he just reminds me of JJ's first three seasons with the Suns. He's a slasher with good floor vision, an average jumper and a decent three-point shot. I watched each in college and have kept an eye on Brewer in the pros (I desperately wanted Phoenix to nab him by trading up last year). JJ may not be the best comparison as far as potential goes, but limited skills dictating current situation, overall potential at the position and the possibility of developing one's game around one's physical ability are very close.

And if I had Kidd, I'd desperately want someone like Kirilenko. Kidd would make him infinitely better by making best use of him in transition, and AK's help defense would probably cause Kidd to become a better perimeter defender and fewer PGs will attack the basket as consistently. You throw a rotation of...

Kidd... Terry
Brewer...
Kirilenko... Stackhouse
Dirk... Bass
Dampier... FA/signing

... and you're a much better transition team, have better perimeter athleticism, have better shotblocking, better rebounding and really don't lose any shooting.

That team would really scare me when healthy. That, for me would be the biggest deterrent: AK's injury history.

[balli]

he just reminds me of JJ's first three seasons with the Suns. He's a slasher with good floor vision, an average jumper and a decent three-point shot. I watched each in college and have kept an eye on Brewer in the pros (I desperately wanted Phoenix to nab him by trading up last year). JJ may not be the best comparison as far as potential goes, but limited skills dictating current situation, overall potential at the position and the possibility of developing one's game around one's physical ability are very close.

No offence, but I just disagree entirely. Ronnie Brewer shoots 22% from 3pt land. I wouldn't call that decent, I'd call it terrible. Not that it's his fault- he does have the fucked up bone in his arm. But still, that's just awful for a SG. Overall he shoots a great fg% (57%), but most of that comes from the paint. I tried to find one of those hotzone charts on his shooting, but they didn't have data on him. I'd be willing to bet though (and I've seen every single second of his pro career) that he's at about 35% on his jumpshots, if that; which is well below average for his position. And in terms of his court vision, I've never really seen him do anything that would make me believe he is a good distributor. There's never been a Ronnie Brewer pass that's made me say "Oh shit!" anyway.

I don't say this to rag on the guy, I love Ronnie Brewer and think he brings a whole hell of a lot to the team, but definitely not even "decent" shooting or court vision.

[JMarkJohns]

And Joe Johnson shot 29% from three his rookie season, and 30% from three in his third season. He had one year where he didn't even shoot 40% from the field. In his first three seasons, JJ averaged just 3 apg and 2 topg.

In college Brewer was an amazing talent as far as court vision went. His highest apg average was 3.3. JJ's in college was 1.8.

Again, and maybe it's changed since coming to the NBA, but I think situation is determining his potential right now. He's not getting that many touches, and when he does, they aren't ball-handling opportunities. His court vision has been somewhat stifled. Aspects and circumstances of Brewer just remind me of Joe Johnson. Like I said, he may never develop every facet of his game the way Johnson has, but from what I've seen, he has plenty of ability as far as ball-handling/passing and is still young enough to develop a consistent mid-range jumper and decent 3-point shot.

Obviously THIS Brewer is very far behind THIS Johnson, but within context, I think many things are comparable/similar.

[balli]

And Joe Johnson shot 29% from three his rookie season, and 30% from three in his third season. He had one year where he didn't even shoot 40% from the field. In his first three seasons, JJ averaged just 3 apg and 2 topg.

In college Brewer was an amazing talent as far as court vision went. His highest apg average was 3.3. JJ's in college was 1.8.

Again, and maybe it's changed since coming to the NBA, but I think situation is determining his potential right now. He's not getting that many touches, and when he does, they aren't ball-handling opportunities. His court vision has been somewhat stifled. Aspects and circumstances of Brewer just remind me of Joe Johnson. Like I said, he may never develop every facet of his game the way Johnson has, but from what I've seen, he has plenty of ability as far as ball-handling/passing and is still young enough to develop a consistent mid-range jumper and decent 3-point shot.

Obviously THIS Brewer is very far behind THIS Johnson, but within context, I think many things are comparable/similar.

Fair enough regarding the passing thing. Sloan does keep him on a pretty tight leash in terms of handling the ball. The shooting thing I still disagree with, but whatever, you clocked these guys in college and I didn't so you might have some insight into what your talking about. I just think his shot is ass ugly without much hope for improvement. He can't make it better IMO unless that bone miraculously re-heals and allows him to shoot the ball differently. Don't think that's going to happen.

[JMarkJohns]

You may be right on the shot. I did not know about any kind of bone injury. I agree his form is awkward, but I've seen plenty of good shooters with awkward technique/form.

Maybe his shot never quite makes it to JJs quality, I think his ballhandings, court vision and slashing ability can maybe open up some easy jumpers for him. I think in time he'll develop some mid-range touch, which, to be honest, is all a good slasher needs... see Grant Hill.