obama can't distinguish between iraq and iran.

[Ignignokt]

lEBZeJUamIc

[Nbadan]

........ummmmmmmm........Neither can Dubya......


hPNayyS88bU

[Ignignokt]

........ummmmmmmm........Neither can Dubya......


hPNayyS88bU



change you said?

[ChumpDumper]

Neither can McCain. That just leaves....



Damn.

[RandomGuy]

lEBZeJUamIc

If you actually watch the video, the question Obama asked was if the Shia-led Iraqi government was complicit allowing the Iranian aid to flow and not trying to actually stop it.

This video doesn't say what you think it does, and shows a rather intelligent question that I myself would like to have answered, sorry, but nice try.

If you're going to try to make someone look foolish, you had better vet your material a little better than this. But hey, if your real purpose was to show everybody Obama asking an intelligent question, feel free to bump the thread.

[RandomGuy]

lEBZeJUamIc


Here is the flow of the conversation:

Dude:"Iranians are funding/aiding militia groups"

Obama:"Is the Iraqi government funneling this or just tolerating it?"

Dude: "The Iranian government..."

Seems more like the mistake was on the Dude's part, not Obama's. I think they guy answering the questions misunderstood the Senator.

I would love to see the follow up footage.

[Ignignokt]

Here is the flow of the conversation:

Dude:"Iranians are funding/aiding militia groups"

Obama:"Is the Iraqi government funneling this or just tolerating it?"

Dude: "The Iranian government..."

Seems more like the mistake was on the Dude's part, not Obama's. I think they guy answering the questions misunderstood the Senator.

I would love to see the follow up footage.

by dude you mean the expert.

so despite the so called "dude" was talking about iran at first, that means that obama corrected him and said it was the iraqi govt doing the shia funding and not the actual shia nation of iran?

yeah okay.

[RandomGuy]

by dude you mean the expert.

so despite the so called "dude" was talking about iran at first, that means that obama corrected him and said it was the iraqi govt doing the shia funding and not the actual shia nation of iran?

yeah okay.

Yes, by "dude" I mean expert.

The dude wasn't talking about Iran.

He was talking about Iranian aid to shia militia in Iraq.

The question was essentially "Is the Iraqi government directing this aid or are they "tacitly tolerating it"?

Obama didn't correct him at all. He asked a pertinent question to what the guy was speaking to.

Sorry if the sloppy research on the part of the youtube ideologue and your own confirmation bias led you astray, but it did.

As I said, it was an intelligent question.

If you had the follow up footage so we could possibly ferret out a bit more context, it might help to clear up the ambiguity for you.

[Ignignokt]

Yes, by "dude" I mean expert.

The dude wasn't talking about Iran.

He was talking about Iranian aid to shia militia in Iraq.

The question was essentially "Is the Iraqi government directing this aid or are they "tacitly tolerating it"?

Obama didn't correct him at all. He asked a pertinent question to what the guy was speaking to.

Sorry if the sloppy research on the part of the youtube ideologue and your own confirmation bias led you astray, but it did.

As I said, it was an intelligent question.

If you had the follow up footage so we could possibly ferret out a bit more context, it might help to clear up the ambiguity for you.


so it was the expert that was confused when he didn't mention iraq but went on and only talked about iran
.

[GaryJohnston]

Obama, Obama, Obama.................

[RandomGuy]

so it was the expert that was confused when he didn't mention iraq but went on and only talked about iran
.

Either that or it was an administration official that didn't want to admit that indeed the Shia dominated government was looking the other way when the Shia government in Iran was sending weapons to the Shia militias that are killing Sunnis.

Kind of hard to get Sunnis to the bargaining table with the Iraqi government if they think the government is helping arm the people who are trying to kill them, so an administration "expert" might have some reason to either provaricate or pretend he didn't hear the question and stick to his talking points like any other politician/diplomat.

Understanding the exchange takes a very nuanced understanding of the situation on the ground in Iraq. If you need some confirmation of this, try www.globalsecurity.org or some similar non-partisan think tank website to brush up on this.

Further, in a political context Obama's question makes even more sense, especially if you put him in the position to ask questions of an expert who might say something embarrassing to the administration of his political opponents if Obama could get him to admit that indeed the Iraqi government is helping Shia militias.

Wouldn't that be something of a talking point about Iraq, if the Iraqi government was complicit in helping arm the very militias we are fighting?

This video shows little more than either an expert who misheard a question, or a guy who simply didn't want to say something both diplomatically and politically damaging in such a public format.

[RandomGuy]

what's a "talking point"

Ask and ye shall receive.

Talking point (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_point)

A talking point is a neologism (new word) for an idea which may or may not be factual, usually compiled in a short list with summaries of a speaker's agenda for public or private engagements. Public relations professionals, for example, sometimes prepare "talking points memos" for their clients to help them more effectively conform public presentations with this advice.

A political think tank will strategize the most effective informational attack on a target topic and launch talking points from media personalities to saturate discourse in order to frame a debate in their favor, standardizing the responses of sympathizers to their unique cause while simultaneously co-opting the language used by those discussing the specific subject.

When used politically in this way, the typical purpose of a talking point is to propagandize, specifically using the technique of argumentum ad nauseam, i.e. continuous repetition within media outlets until accepted as fact.

[RandomGuy]

In this case you get a guy whose talking point includes emphasizing the bad things that the Iranian government, and skirting questions about the bad things that the Iraqi government is doing in order not to embarass the administration and/or create a dimplomatic stink.

(shrugs)

Put it to the common sense test.

Which is more likely:

A Senator trying to score political points in a public hearing in front of a committee by asking a loaded question

or

A Senator has such a deep misunderstanding of a topic after sitting there for hours and hours and hours of testimony that he can't tell the difference between two neighboring countries?

[RandomGuy]

The person who put the video on her youtube account as well as the OP is either horribly ignorant of politics and the general situation in Iraq, or they are cynically trying to lie by omission, with the hope that most people don't know enough about what is being discussed to come away believing the lie.

Which is it? Ignorant or lying?

I would tend to believe the former, as I have yet to meet many conservative ideologues who know shit from shinola when it comes to Iraq.

[JoeChalupa]

They all make mistakes as I'm sure any of us would. Is this what politics has come to?

[RandomGuy]

They all make mistakes as I'm sure any of us would. Is this what politics has come to?


Indeed. Unfortunately for the OP, this is not one of them.

[RandomGuy]

bump. because this thread is mine. I own it.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

"Special Groups" as Sen. Obama referred to almost explicitly refers to Iranian funded quasi militias, much like the term "security forces" would refer to Iraqi police. Not a big issue though; I don't think that it was indicative of any misunderstanding about the situation on the ground.

[gtownspur]

That's nice random douche.

i mean the man was talking about a Shia nation like Iran arming Shia militias. That was clearly the implication.

I mean a huge Shia nation like Iran arming shia militias in Iraq, why is that so hard for Barrack to mistake it as Iraq being the shia nation arming shia soldiers just so that they could in turn kill them.

SOunds like RG is just defending a dead horse.

[RandomGuy]

That's nice random douche.

i mean the man was talking about a Shia nation like Iran arming Shia militias. That was clearly the implication.

I mean a huge Shia nation like Iran arming shia militias in Iraq, why is that so hard for Barrack to mistake it as Iraq being the shia nation arming shia soldiers just so that they could in turn kill them.

SOunds like RG is just defending a dead horse.

Which is more likely:

A Senator trying to score political points in a public hearing in front of a committee by asking a loaded question?

or

A Senator has such a deep misunderstanding of a topic after sitting there for hours and hours and hours of testimony that he can't tell the difference between two neighboring countries?

[peewee's lovechild]

They all make mistakes as I'm sure any of us would. Is this what politics has come to?

When Hillary makes a mistake, it's the end of the world.

So, turnabout is fair play.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

he should just refer to both of them as the people he wants to talk to.

[RandomGuy]

When Hillary makes a mistake, it's the end of the world.

So, turnabout is fair play.

(shrugs)

I haven't seen Hillary really make "mistakes" when it comes to such things. She is a pretty sharp cookie.

Quite frankly, I let the occasional brain fart go for any of the candidates. They don't get enough sleep and talk waaay to much not to make the occasional gaffe.

This is one of the reasons that McCain's repeated alqaeda/shia bit really DOES concern me, because it was so obviously not a simple brain fart, but a genuine misconception from a senior Foreign Affairs committee member.

[peewee's lovechild]

(shrugs)

I haven't seen Hillary really make "mistakes" when it comes to such things. She is a pretty sharp cookie.

Quite frankly, I let the occasional brain fart go for any of the candidates. They don't get enough sleep and talk waaay to much not to make the occasional gaffe.

This is one of the reasons that McCain's repeated alqaeda/shia bit really DOES concern me, because it was so obviously not a simple brain fart, but a genuine misconception from a senior Foreign Affairs committee member.

I really don't care either.

I was just saying.

[RandomGuy]

I really don't care either.

I was just saying.


S'alright.

For what it is worth, for all the talk about Dems getting cheesed if their candidate doesn't win the nomination, I will work hard for Hillary to win in November if it all pans out that way.

I know you have the opinion that all Obama supporters are all starry eyed zealots, but I have yet to meet any that have seriously said they would vote for McCain if Hillary gets the nomination.

[Nbadan]

For what it is worth, for all the talk about Dems getting cheesed if their candidate doesn't win the nomination, I will work hard for Hillary to win in November if it all pans out that way.

Please don't feed the trolls, there is no mathematical way Hillary can win....

[RandomGuy]

Bump. 'cause this thread is golden, baby.

[Ignignokt]

Bump. 'cause this thread is golden, baby.

in light of the 57 Obama states, yes.

[RandomGuy]

in light of the 57 Obama states, yes.

ooooh man that was so weak, I had to put it to sleep and bury it in the back yard.

[Ignignokt]

ooooh man that was so weak, I had to put it to sleep and bury it in the back yard.

Hope neither sleeps or gets buried. Hope is as Hope does.

-Obama Gump.

[RandomGuy]

so it was the expert that was confused when he didn't mention iraq but went on and only talked about iran
.

Either that or it was an administration official that didn't want to admit that indeed the Shia dominated government was looking the other way when the Shia government in Iran was sending weapons to the Shia militias that are killing Sunnis.

Kind of hard to get Sunnis to the bargaining table with the Iraqi government if they think the government is helping arm the people who are trying to kill them, so an administration "expert" might have some reason to either provaricate or pretend he didn't hear the question and stick to his talking points like any other politician/diplomat.

Understanding the exchange takes a very nuanced understanding of the situation on the ground in Iraq. If you need some confirmation of this, try www.globalsecurity.org or some similar non-partisan think tank website to brush up on this.

Further, in a political context Obama's question makes even more sense, especially if you put him in the position to ask questions of an expert who might say something embarrassing to the administration of his political opponents if Obama could get him to admit that indeed the Iraqi government is helping Shia militias.

Wouldn't that be something of a talking point about Iraq, if the Iraqi government was complicit in helping arm the very militias we are fighting?

This video shows little more than either an "expert" who either misheard a question, or who simply didn't want to say something both diplomatically and politically damaging in such a public format.

Just in case anyone missed this.

[Don Quixote]

I know you have the opinion that all Obama supporters are all starry eyed zealots, but I have yet to meet any that have seriously said they would vote for McCain if Hillary gets the nomination.

Yeah, you might be right. I don't see the radical lefties or blacks voting Republican under any circumstances. On the other hand, Hillary is not exactly a unifying person herself. I can see enough of St. Obama's true believers staying home over voting for Hillary to make things interesting.

But she would, indeed, be the stronger candidate in the general. She won't lose "middle America" as badly as will Obama. And McCain is not exactly a great candidate himself. So, if the Democrats end up choosing Hillary, it's not all bad for them. She might end up winning.

[RandomGuy]

Hope neither sleeps or gets buried. Hope is as Hope does.

-Obama Gump.

''Then you wake up at the high school level and find out that the illiteracy level of our children are appalling.''
—President George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

:lmao

[RandomGuy]

''I want you to know. Karyn is with us. A West Texas girl, just like me.''
—President George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., May 27, 2004

[RandomGuy]

''I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5 pound largemouth bass in my lake.''
—President George W. Bush, on his best moment in office, interview with the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, May 7, 2006

[RandomGuy]

''I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace.''
—President George W. Bush, Washington, D.C. June 18, 2002

[RandomGuy]

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bl_bush_quote_generator.htm


Let me know when BO has a "random Barack quote" generator.

:lmao

[Ignignokt]

:lmao


I'll take the bad grammar over the mathematically challenged Barrack "i need an abacus to determine the number of states in the union" obama.

[Ignignokt]

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bl_bush_quote_generator.htm


Let me know when BO has a "random Barack quote" generator.

:lmao


That'll be hard, Barrack sticks to teleprompters.

[RandomGuy]

Yeah, you might be right. I don't see the radical lefties or blacks voting Republican under any circumstances. On the other hand, Hillary is not exactly a unifying person herself. I can see enough of St. Obama's true believers staying home over voting for Hillary to make things interesting.

But she would, indeed, be the stronger candidate in the general. She won't lose "middle America" as badly as will Obama. And McCain is not exactly a great candidate himself. So, if the Democrats end up choosing Hillary, it's not all bad for them. She might end up winning.

As I have opined before, Bush will be the albatross around McCain's neck that he will be unable to escape. Damned if he criticizes, damned if he doesn't.

The democratic nominee will only nominally be runing against McCain.

Face it, this election is a referendum about two things: Iraq and the Bush presidency.

All BO has to do, is not f*** up and shoot himself in the foot too badly.

[RandomGuy]

I'll take the bad grammar over the mathematically challenged Barrack "i need an abacus to determine the number of states in the union" obama.

That's it? Your "A" game? The best you have?

http://www.shipmentoffail.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/spellingmoranfail.jpg

[possessed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APx2YJ-_jos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVJ0-cWr_PY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_aBRD1EOes&feature=related

[RandomGuy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APx2YJ-_jos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVJ0-cWr_PY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_aBRD1EOes&feature=related

Meh.

[jochhejaam]

For your reading pleasure;

Article published Saturday, May 24, 2008
Not so smart after all?


WHAT should be the theme song for Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign?

Some think it should be Carly Simon's 1972 smash hit, "You're So Vain," (I bet you think this speech is about you).

Most of us have a higher opinion of ourselves than objective circumstances warrant. But in few of us is the gap between how we view ourselves and reality as wide as it is with Mr. Obama.

Mr. Obama is a bright, handsome, personable guy who gives a good speech (when he's working from a prepared text). But he's never actually done much of anything. The biggest tic on his resume to date is that he was president of the Harvard Law Review. That's impressive, but not exactly the stuff of Winston Churchill, Franklin Roosevelt, or Ronald Reagan, guys who could turn a phrase, too. Mr. Obama's self-regard is such that he already has written two autobiographical books.

Little seems to annoy Mr. Obama more than when others do not hold him in as high esteem as he holds himself. He apparently was dozing in the pews when his pastor said America is no better than al-Qaeda and our government created the AIDS virus to exterminate blacks. But his ears perked up when the Rev. Jeremiah Wright implied that he had been insincere in describing their relationship: "That's a show of disrespect to me," Mr. Obama said.

A focus on himself and a hypersensitivity to perceived slights may explain why Mr. Obama thought President Bush was speaking about him when the President denounced appeasement in a speech to the Israeli parliament May 15.

"I understand when you are running for office sometimes you think the world revolves around you," responded White House Press Secretary Dana Perino. "That is not always true, and it is not true in this case."

Mr. Obama's prolonged response to the Knesset speech - one of the largest unforced errors I've seen in politics - suggests another candidate for campaign theme song, Sam Cooke's 1960 ditty, "Wonderful World." The opening lyric is: "Don't know much about history." :lol <good one Jack>

In arguing to reporters that face-to-face meetings with America's enemies without preconditions isn't appeasement, Mr. Obama claimed President Kennedy's summit meeting with Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev in Vienna helped defuse the Cuban missile crisis.

The Vienna summit took place in June of 1961, the Cuban missile crisis in October of 1962. Many historians believe the summit was a cause of the Cuban missile crisis: "There is reason to believe that Khrushchev took Kennedy's measure in June, 1961, and decided this was a young man who would shrink from hard decisions," wrote Elie Abel, author of The Missiles of October.

In his victory speech after the North Carolina primary, Mr. Obama said: "I trust the American people to understand that it is not weakness, but wisdom, to talk not just to our friends, but to our enemies, like Roosevelt did, and Kennedy did, and Truman did."

Neither FDR nor Truman met with Hitler, Tojo, or Mussolini before or during World War II. Their policy was unconditional surrender. They did meet with Stalin during World War II. But the Soviet Union was then a U.S. ally.

Then Mr. Obama said his willingness to meet face to face with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran could be a "Nixon to China" moment. But Richard Nixon could make his overture to split China from the Soviet Union precisely because of his reputation as a tough anti-communist. Mr. Obama does not enjoy a reputation for toughness. And there were plenty of preconditions before Nixon and Mao Zedong met. When you're in a hole, you should stop digging.

Another lyric in the Sam Cooke song is: "Don't know much about geography." In a speech in Oregon last week, Mr. Obama said he'd campaigned in 57 states, and in the "Oregon plan" his campaign released, he promised to protect "national treasures like the Great Lakes," the nearest of which is about 1,700 miles east of Oregon.

This week Mr. Obama said Hillary Clinton had an advantage in Kentucky because "she comes from the nearby state of Arkansas." Mr. Obama's home state of Illinois borders on Kentucky. Arkansas doesn't.

If John McCain were saying these things, there'd be much media speculation about "senior moments."

Is Mr. Obama suffering from early onset Alzheimer's? Or is he just not as smart as he imagines himself to be?

Jack Kelly is a columnist for The Blade and the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080524/COLUMNIST14/805240332

[ChumpDumper]

What pastors say or said doesn't matter.

For either side.

[Wild Cobra]

What pastors say or said doesn't matter.

For either side.

In general, I would agree. However, Obama claimed his was his mentor for 20 years. That has some meaning, doesn't it?

[ChumpDumper]

In general, I would agree. However, Obama claimed his was his mentor for 20 years. That has some meaning, doesn't it?Nah. Obama's beliefs are Obama's. Not Wright's. Only an idiot would think they are.

If you want to make an issue out of that, I suppose it's open season on McCain for actively seeking out the endorsement of an anti-Catholic preacher who called Nazis God's hunters.

Neither one is a real issue though. Just more made up bullshit.

[RandomGuy]

That'll be hard, Barrack sticks to teleprompters.

Ah. the gold one finds in old subscribed threads.

The irony given the orange turds verbal diarrhea is palpable.