Monroe: How the NBA breaks a four-way tie

[some_user86]

Pro basketball: How the NBA breaks a four-way tie

Web Posted: 04/15/2008 10:45 PM CDT

Mike Monroe
San Antonio Express-News

You don't need a degree in Boolean logic to unravel the secrets of the NBA's formula for breaking a potential four-way tie for third place in the Western Conference, but keep a bottle of aspirin handy as you follow along.

You might get a headache. (I certainly do)

If the Spurs, Jazz, Suns and Rockets all finish the regular season with records of 55-27:

•Utah would be eliminated from the logjam before the tiebreaker rules are applied and given the No. 3 seed because it won the Northwest Division.

•The tie among the remaining three teams would be broken based on winning percentages in regular-season games among the three.

Phoenix, with a 5-3 record against the Spurs and Rockets, would get the No. 4 seed. The Rockets, 4-4, would get the No. 5 seed. The Spurs, 3-5, would be No. 6.

•Phoenix and Houston would match up in the first round of the playoffs. However, the No. 5 seed Rockets would have home-court advantage over the No. 4 seed Suns. That is because the two tied in their regular season series, 2-2, which is the first tiebreaker in a head-to-head matchup. The Rockets had a better record within the Western Conference, which is the second tiebreaker in a head-to-head matchup when the tied teams aren't in the same division.

•The Spurs and Jazz would match up in the first round, with Utah having home-court advantage based on its 3-1 regular-season record against the Spurs.

Remember: This four-way tie only can happen if Utah defeats the Spurs in the regular-season finale at the AT&T Center tonight, which would give Utah its season edge.

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LINK: http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA041608.NBAPlayoffExplainer.6a61148f.html

[timvp]

Utah would be eliminated from the logjam before the tiebreaker rules are applied and given the No. 3 seed because it won the Northwest Division.Bruno was right. Nice job :tu

[TDMVPDPOY]

bring on utah

[dg7md]

Utah with homecourt and revenge on their minds? Not good.

[Princess Pimp]

Don't spin it too much either way, You will be eliminated in round 1 no matter who you play.

Bye Bye Paper Champions.

[JPB]

What I don't get is why Utah would be given the n°3 seed.

there could be an overall tiebreaker that includes the fact that the Jazz can't go lower the N°4 seed.

For example, if the tiebreaker put them in the n°5, they're would automaticaly be n°4 and n° 4 becomes n°5.
If they're n° 6, then n°4 becomes n°5 and n° 5 becomes n°6.

That would respects the order for the other 3 teams while Utah would keep the benefit of the gain of its division.

Why automaticaly put them in n°3 ? That doesn't seem like a fair rule.

[beck253]

It's not that way, Monroe is wrong, although the outcome is the same.

Utah, as division winner, gets an automatic place in the Top 4, not the Top 3, joining the other divsional champs and the non-champ with the best record.

So, PHO, HOU, and SA must break their tie to decide the "best non division winner" spot. That goes to Phoenix because of tie-breaker.

So then, the 1-4 spots must be alocated. Utah goes 3rd over PHO not by being Division Winner but because they own their head to head.

What is no clearly explained by the rules is if then HOU and SAS should re-do the tie-breaker to resolve 5th and 6th in which case Spurs would be 5th, or mantain the results of three way tiebreak with Phoenix, in which case the Spurs are 6th.

This is not clearly derived by the rules, but every mainstream piece says it's the latter and Spurs would be 6th in that case.

I'm not 100% sure but it's logical to assume journalists with access to league office have already made that phone call about it.

[cash459]

Don't spin it too much either way, You will be eliminated in round 1 no matter who you play.

Bye Bye Paper Champions.

Thats more than i can say for your team...the chokers, and chumps

[Gino]

Pro basketball: How the NBA breaks a four-way tie

Web Posted: 04/15/2008 10:45 PM CDT

Mike Monroe
San Antonio Express-News

Phoenix, with a 5-3 record against the Spurs and Rockets, would get the No. 4 seed. The Rockets, 4-4, would get the No. 5 seed. The Spurs, 3-5, would be No. 6.

•Phoenix and Houston would match up in the first round of the playoffs. However, the No. 5 seed Rockets would have home-court advantage over the No. 4 seed Suns. That is because the two tied in their regular season series, 2-2, which is the first tiebreaker in a head-to-head matchup. The Rockets had a better record within the Western Conference, which is the second tiebreaker in a head-to-head matchup when the tied teams aren't in the same division.

Here's the part that the writers are disagreeing on.

Yahoo says the Suns would have home court:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-westscenarios08&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

We might not actually know until tomorrow and the games are scheduled.

[adidas11]

Its not that difficult to understand. Because of a 4 way tie, you use the "overall head to head record among the tied teams" to determine seeding. In addition, Utah is guaranteed at least a 4 seed because they won their division.

So if any out of Houston/Phoenix/SA have a better "overall head to head record among the tied teams" than Houston, then they move to the 3 spot.

So now, out of that mess, you have determined seedings. Now you go back to the original rules of head-to-head, conference record, etc., to determine who has HCA. You do that because at this point, you're only comparing two teams (that are seeded against each other)

So the exerpt by Mike Monroe is correct. Phoenix would be seeded higher than Houston, but then Houston would have HCA.

Think of it this way. You determine seeding first. By itself. Then afterwards, you determine HCA for those seeded teams. By itself.

[Corn on the Colb]

I'm thinking the Jazz get out of the logjam because they won a Division and the other teams did not.

In a four way tie that seems fair enough. Plus we own the head to head tiebreakers vs. all 3 of those teams anyway so why is it bad that they'd give Utah the 3rd instead of the 4th seed?

[Indazone]

Don't care at this point. Spurs lose to the Jazz we get the Suns who we blew out last time. Spurs beat the Jazz and then we get the Jazz who all the players secretly want for revenge from last year.

[adidas11]

The reward for the Jazz winning their division is that they can't be seede no lower than the 4th seed. That's it. No guarantee that they could get a 3rd seed.

[Princess Pimp]

I'm thinking the Jazz get out of the logjam because they won a Division and the other teams did not.

In a four way tie that seems fair enough. Plus we own the head to head tiebreakers vs. all 3 of those teams anyway so why is it bad that they'd give Utah the 3rd instead of the 4th seed?
Not versus the Suns IDIOT!

3-1 head to head rings a bell?

and if the Jazz win tonight that would be also a 3-1 head to head tiebreaker in favor of the Jazz, why is this so difficult to understand by these dumbasses?

[AZSportsFan]

Not versus the Suns IDIOT!

3-1 head to head rings a bell?

and if the Jazz win tonight that would be also a 3-1 head to head tiebreaker in favor of the Jazz, why is this so difficult to understand by these dumbasses?
You realize that you are speaking to a Jazz fan, right? The Jazz own a tiebreaker with the Suns, unfortunately.

[Corn on the Colb]

Not versus the Suns IDIOT!

3-1 head to head rings a bell?

and if the Jazz win tonight that would be also a 3-1 head to head tiebreaker in favor of the Jazz, why is this so difficult to understand by these dumbasses?

What are you talking about?

The Jazz have a 2-1 series lead over the Suns (and the 1 loss was in the middle of the Jazz's 5-11 month of December, before the Korver trade and before they became the team they are now).

STFU.

[Princess Pimp]

What are you talking about?

The Jazz have a 2-1 series lead over the Suns (and the 1 loss was in the middle of the Jazz's 5-11 month of December, before the Korver trade and before they became the team they are now).

STFU.
They (Jazz) are Division Leaders!!! :dizzy

[Corn on the Colb]

They (Jazz) are Division Leaders!!! :dizzy

Yes, AND they have the head to head tiebreakers versus all 3 of the other teams who potentially could drop into the 4-way tie tonight.

Those are two great reasons why the Jazz SHOULD get the the 3 seed if the 4 way tie happens. I was responding to those who thought the Jazz getting the 3 seed would be bush league.

What the HELL are you getting at?

[oligarchy]

Ignore her.

[TampaDude]

Don't spin it too much either way, You will be eliminated in round 1 no matter who you play.

Bye Bye Paper Champions.

Hmmm...I checked the paper...it says...


San Antonio Spurs - 4 NBA Titles

Phoenix Suns - 0 NBA Titles


Have a nice day! :lol

[WildcardManu]

Bye Bye Paper Champions.


Umm... that does apply to your team because up to now you guys are paper champions.

[adidas11]

A head-to-head match up against another team is irrelevant if it comes to a 4 way tie. At that point, you look at your overall record against the other three teams to determine who gets the higher seeding.

[Corn on the Colb]

Hmmm...I checked the paper...it says...


San Antonio Spurs - 4 NBA Titles

Phoenix Suns - 0 NBA Titles


Have a nice day! :lol

I double checked your research and it's true.

Sucks for her.

[Dex]

Don't spin it too much either way, You will be eliminated in round 1 no matter who you play.

Bye Bye Paper Champions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_the_Coin_Flip

Here's some light reading. Well, probably going to end up being fairly heavy reading for you, but try to get through it.

[Dex]

The Suns rank fourth among the NBA Franchises in all-time winning percentage, and are the winningest NBA franchise not to have won an NBA Championship

Ouch. :dizzy

[Don Quixote]

I'm thinking the Jazz get out of the logjam because they won a Division and the other teams did not.

In a four way tie that seems fair enough. Plus we own the head to head tiebreakers vs. all 3 of those teams anyway so why is it bad that they'd give Utah the 3rd instead of the 4th seed?

Cornholio is back!

She's hot.

[Don Quixote]

Utah with homecourt and revenge on their minds? Not good.

It doesn't look good for us whether we play Utah or Phoenix. Both teams are mad about last year and looking for revenge. And they might get it this year as Los Spurs are not as good this year.

The only team we'd beat in a 7-game series right now is Denver. And probably Houston.