Howard in the All-NBA first team? not Amaré?

[We born to be bad]

Really?
When the people say Dwight Howard could be the most dominating force in the league, I strongly disagree with that. I like Dwight, his size and strong play is very impressive, but I think Amare is the better of the two.

http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/amare_stoudemire.jpg

PPG 25,2
RPG 9,1
APG 1,5
SPG 0,8
BPG 2,1
FG% 0,590
FT% 0,805
3P% 0,161
MPG 33,9


http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/dwight_howard.jpg
PPG 20,7
RPG 14,2
APG 1,3
SPG 0,9
BPG 2,2
FG% 0,599
FT% 0,590
3P% 0,000
MPG 37,7

He was unstoppable so many times in the season, a lot of games, much more than Dwight, and Amaré is the 2nd leader points in the league per 48 minutes.OK? not Dwight.

And Amaré hasn't a bad ego. When Shaq came to play in Phoenix some stupid people thought Amaré would be a stumbling-block to Shaq addition. They were wrong. Not jealous, not ego. Amaré is a really good teammate and the Suns love him.

Some people guess Amaré defense is his weakness and I understand why they saying that. Only one stuff of his play that I want to see improved is his defense.
Obviously, he isn´t the intimitador that Hakeem was or Shaq is and his patience is lower than other great post player than Duncan, but he's willing to work an his defense 'll improve day by day.

Amaré also is great in playoffs, Howard has not proved that.

If Amaré plays in the playoffs as well as he did in the season, the Suns'll win the ring. I don't doubt it.

Amaré's video with his best games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQDfQiqSk-A

[monosylab1k]

Erick Dampier can post up Amare.

[Findog]

I can post up Amare.

[Findog]

Seriously, Amare's #s went up because he can't be doubled with Nash and Shaq on the floor. Before anybody starts slobbing this guy's knob for what he does on one end of the floor only, ask yourself what Kobe and LeBron could do if they were never doubled.

[stretch]

Seriously, Amare's #s went up because he can't be doubled with Nash and Shaq on the floor. Before anybody starts slobbing this guy's knob for what he does on one end of the floor only, ask yourself what Kobe and LeBron could do if they were never doubled.

Well... Kobe won 3 rings, and still was doubled a considerable amount of the time. Hate to see what he could have done if he also had a PG like Steve Nash... lol

[monosylab1k]

does amare's name really have the accent over the "e"? if that's true, that just makes him even douchier.

[Trainwreck2100]

Sadly Duncan will prob be left off the first team

[JMarkJohns]

Amare is the most explosive scorer from the forward/center position since and in prime Shaq, and his offensive is so skilled from the perimeter, few can even compare. However, I think averaging 5 more rebounds per game is more impressive than the five more points.

It'd be tough for me to say who I'd choose, but I have no issue with Howard over Amare for 1st-team. Howard is a center, Amare is a forward. Now that Amare's moved to PF, he's highly unlikely to get another 1st team All-NBA until Garnett and Duncan severely diminish, and it will likely always be a toss up twixt he and Dirk for the second forward spot. Unless Beasley puts up college numbers in the NBA. Then it will be James and Beasley at the 1st-team forward spots, and Dirk and Amare on the 2nd-team.

And Mono, yes, Amare added the accent after his second or third year.

[DarrinS]

Fuck Amare.

[hater]

is this a joke?????

DH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amare

[JMarkJohns]

is this a joke?????

DH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amare

Is this a joke?????

[rAm]

LOL at the accent, what a douche bag.


Amare is not better than Dwight. I would love to see Amare on a team w/o Nash just for a couple weeks. I am really curious to see if he is as good as people think.

[Leetonidas]

Seriously, Amare's #s went up because he can't be doubled with Nash and Shaq on the floor. Before anybody starts slobbing this guy's knob for what he does on one end of the floor only, ask yourself what Kobe and LeBron could do if they were never doubled.

Kobe would be averaging like 45 points a game. :rollin

[robbie380]

let's not forget amare's matador defensive tactics. he has all the physical tools to be a great defender but he is just terrible on d.

[hater]

Is this a joke?????

Imagine Dwight playin next to Nash. LMAO amare is so overrated

[stretch]

Imagine Dwight playin next to Nash. LMAO amare is so overrated

scary...

[The Franchise]

Dwight over Amare because what would Amare be without Nash?

[AI-square]

If Amare put in some effort on guarding other big men he would be something but if Dwight played with Nash he'd be unstoppable. It's not just about scoring. Dwight is such a defensive presence because he grabs so many rebounds. Point guards drive into the lane and they see Howard in the paint and they go :spless:

[Allanon]

Dwight doesn't have an accent mark in his name but he does have 'D' in his name.... that's all he needs.

[JMarkJohns]

Imagine Dwight playin next to Nash. LMAO amare is so overrated

I'm not going to argue that Amare doesn't benefit from Nash, because that would be absurd. But what most people fail to realize, is that Amare has developed his game to fully complement the skills of Nash. Howard can't dribble drive off the 20-foot screen and roll the way Amare can. He hasn't the handle. Howard can't step out and hit the 20-foot jumper at all, let alone with the consistency that Amare can.

Just because Howard is big and athletic doesn't mean he can do what Amare does with Nash. Howard isn't even as skilled offensively as the second-year, 20-ppg sans-Nash Amare. He has a handful of power moves in the post. I think it's great he's developing and has already proven his worth as a shotblocker (2.2 DH to 2.1 AS) and rebounder, but Amare is FAR more complete offensively.

I think overall Howard may be a slightly better player, but Amare can do things with Nash offensively that no other big man in the League can. That's the truth. You can diminish all you want, but Howard has been in the League for four seasons now and is just now averaging the ppg total that Amare averaged in his injury-plagued, sans-Nash second year.

Nash makes Amare great by putting him in position, but Amare is so skilled, it no longer matters where he gets the pass, or what he does with it after he receives it... more often than not, it's going in. Whether it be off the dunk, off the hook, off a runner in traffic, spotting up from 20 or off the dribble-drive, it's going in.

With Howard, you'd be limited to the first two options.

[rAm]

I'm not going to argue that Amare doesn't benefit from Nash, because that would be absurd. But what most people fail to realize, is that Amare has developed his game to fully complement the skills of Nash. Howard can't dribble drive off the 20-foot screen and roll the way Amare can. He hasn't the handle. Howard can't step out and hit the 20-foot jumper at all, let alone with the consistency that Amare can.

Just because Howard is big and athletic doesn't mean he can do what Amare does with Nash. Howard isn't even as skilled offensively as the second-year, 20-ppg sans-Nash Amare. He has a handful of power moves in the post. I think it's great he's developing and has already proven his worth as a shotblocker (2.2 DH to 2.1 AS) and rebounder, but Amare is FAR more complete offensively.

I think overall Howard may be a slightly better player, but Amare can do things with Nash offensively that no other big man in the League can. That's the truth. You can diminish all you want, but Howard has been in the League for four seasons now and is just now averaging the ppg total that Amare averaged in his injury-plagued, sans-Nash second year.

Nash makes Amare great by putting him in position, but Amare is so skilled, it no longer matters where he gets the pass, or what he does with it after he receives it... more often than not, it's going in. Whether it be off the dunk, off the hook, off a runner in traffic, spotting up from 20 or off the dribble-drive, it's going in.

With Howard, you'd be limited to the first two options.

That makes sense, and you are probably right.

I would just like to see if he is really that good. Switch Dwight and Amare's teams for a couple games and see what happens. Do teams double Amare much?

[JMarkJohns]

Not that much anymore. But here's the thing, if Howard can't hit the 20-foot jumper, nor drive off the pass, then teams won't respect his pic, therefore they'll play lax and with hinder Nash's game more than Nash will be able to improve Howard's. At least that's as I see it.

Nash doesn't get doubled off the pic, because Amare is too damn good and has too many options at his disposal for simply scoring.

Amare averaged 20 ppg as a second-year big man. He was constantly doubled. His percentages suffered, but he was also developing his mid-range game at the time as well.

On offense, if anyone takes Howard over Amare, then they haven't watched the NBA at all. I won't fault anyone for selecting Howard over Amare for other reasons, including as the better overall player, but to say Howard could do what Amare does if only he had Nash is just foolishness.

[HeyIt'sMe]

Howard in two games against Amare this year put up 34 and 18 in Orlando and 30 and 23 in Phoenix.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

And Mono, yes, Amare added the accent after his second or third year.
:rollin What a douche.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

And BTW, Dwight>Amare. Not even arguable.

[remingtonbo2001]

I think overall Howard may be a slightly better player, but Amare can do things with Nash offensively that no other big man in the League can. That's the truth. You can diminish all you want, but Howard has been in the League for four seasons now and is just now averaging the ppg total that Amare averaged in his injury-plagued, sans-Nash second year.

Bullshit. Tim Duncan could do all things Amare does and at a greater effeciency.

Oh yeah, and he can play defense.

[Jeremy]

Howard in two games against Amare this year put up 34 and 18 in Orlando and 30 and 23 in Phoenix.

And lost both games.

BTW, Howard played 42 and 46 minutes in those games, and they were both in November while Amare was just coming back from knee surgery.

Howard was also probably trying to get revenge for last season's 2 matchups (again, both losses), when Amare held Howard, in the first game, to 4 points on 2-6 shooting, 3 rebounds, 5 turnovers, and 6 fouls, fouling out in 19:15; and in the second game to 10 points and 5 rebounds, on 5-12 shooting.

[HeyIt'sMe]

And lost both games.

BTW, Howard played 42 and 46 minutes in those games, and they were both in November while Amare was just coming back from knee surgery.

Howard was also probably trying to get revenge for last season's 2 matchups (again, both losses), when Amare held Howard, in the first game, to 4 points on 2-6 shooting, 3 rebounds, 5 turnovers, and 6 fouls, fouling out in 19:15; and in the second game to 10 points and 5 rebounds, on 5-12 shooting.

He lost both games because Phoenix is better than Orlando. It's clearly not his fault Orlando lost either game. Additionally, those games the previous year happened before Dwight's breakout season while he was still an excellent player, but not the star he is now.

The fact of the matter is, as a center, Howard is better. He does all the things a center is suppose to do better than Amare (rebound, defend) and he can score on top of it.

[JMarkJohns]

Bullshit. Tim Duncan could do all things Amare does and at a greater effeciency.

Oh yeah, and he can play defense.

Wrong. I'm not saying they wouldn't be better, but Duncan is nowhere near the athlete, has nowhere near the dribble-drive ability and it's up for debate whether or not his jumper from 15-to-18 feet is as consistant as Amare's.

Duncan has more smarts, better fundamentals and a superior low-post game, but I was talking how each player perfectly complements the other.

Sure, the Suns would be better if they had an in-prime Duncan next to an in-prime Nash, but their two games wouldn't mesh nearly as well as Amare's has with Nash.

My point never has been that Amare is the better player, only that he's the perfect fit based on skill and finishing ability for Nash. My posts have mainly pointed out the flaws in the notions that Howard would be able to put up the numbers on offense with Nash that Amare has. Considering Howard's limited perimeter skills, I just don't see that at all.

[JMarkJohns]

The fact of the matter is, as a center, Howard is better. He does all the things a center is suppose to do better than Amare (rebound, defend) and he can score on top of it.

As a center, I don't think you can argue. As a player, maybe, but it think the nod still goes to Howard.

However, I do think Howard's defense is a bit overrated. His rebounding more than makes up for it, but from what I've seen, and I'll admit I haven't seen as much NBA this year as I typically have in seasons past, I think he's an average to slightly above average on-ball defender.

When compared to Amare, he's great, but in regards to the rest of the League, he's all right. Ming got his season average, Gasol scored almost 5 ppg more, Bosh went for 33 ppg.

Maybe he doesn't consistently defend every player I've mentioned, but I've seen him defend it at times and in years past.

Howard's best defense this season came against Amare, holding him to 16 ppg and 8 rpg in 28 minutes per. Amare's per minute was right on par with his pre-All-Star production, but his minutes were down considerably from foul trouble (averaged 4 fouls per in 28 minutes).

I would say...

SCORING
Amare >>> Howard
REBOUNDING
Howard >>> Amare
ON-BALL DEFENSE
HOWARD >> Amare
HELP DEFENSE
Amare = Howard (2.2 bpg, 0.8 spg vs. 2.3 bpg, 0.8 spg)
PASSING
Amare = Howard (although Amare doubled his apg average from C to PF)

I'd say Howard has a slight edge, so I can't argue with a 1st-team selection, but for people to say "Dwight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amare" is just absurd. Maybe in some aspects, but Amare is better and holds his ground in others.

As a center you take Howard. You may always take Howard because of his size, athleticism, rebounding and youth, but Amare is BY FAR, the most explosive scoring big in the NBA today. Others like Howard and Bosh have their moments, but Amare offense is almost unmatched.

[ClingingMars]

Fuck Amare.

[dallaskd]

Id rather have Bosh, Duncan, Garnett. They can play the 5 ?

[J.T.]

Phoenix would have probably won a title already with Howard.

Lol, Amare.

[Amare_32]

Both are good players I have no problem with D12 being on the 1st team. Amare has had the better of thier matchup the last few seasons anyways.

[Allanon]

Amare is so gifted and a great offensive player. But his defensive is just horrible outside of his blocks. He was thoroughly abused by Duncan today.

If Amare played some defense, he has the talent to be best Power Forward ever...but even now he hurts his team fouling out on silly plays.

[Amare_32]

Bullshit. Tim Duncan could do all things Amare does and at a greater effeciency.

Oh yeah, and he can play defense.

Coaching is also a factor. If Garnett had Pop coaching him instead of Flip and Manu and Parker instead of Ricky Davis and Sprewell Garnett would be a 4 time champion.

[O-Factor]

Dwight doesn't have Nash to spoon feed him buckets.

Amare is talented, but his stats are attributed to Nash feeding him the ball and Shaq's presence.

Once, Nash is gone, its all down hill for Amare.

[JMarkJohns]

Dwight doesn't have Nash to spoon feed him buckets.

Amare is talented, but his stats are attributed to Nash feeding him the ball and Shaq's presence.

Once, Nash is gone, its all down hill for Amare.

You obviously just chimed in without reading this thread. So it's Nash that deserves credit for Amare improving his dribble-drive ability? It's all Nash's doing that Amare can now hit runner, floaters and jumpers out to 20-feet consistently?

I get what you're saying, and I agree, but most in this thread are completely selling Amare short just because he has Nash. Amare isn't just about dunking on everybody anymore. A typical offensive possession for Amare starts when he receives the ball around the 15-to-20 feet from the basket.

It takes two to tango, remember? Amare's offense makes Nash look as good as Nash's passes make Amare look good. Nash may set the table, but Amare still has to finish. It's hardly a credit to Nash that Amare can sink jumpers from the baseline, the elbows or straight away out to 20-feet. It's hardly a credit to Nash that Amare can now take his defender off the dribble and either shoot a runner or floater, if not rise up and dunk in traffic.

This isn't the 04-05 Amare that was so great because 90% of his baskets were scored in the lane off the pic-n-roll. I'd say his scoring off such is down to maybe 50%.

Amare's completely changed his game. I'm not saying Nash doesn't help. He obviously does, but Nash helps most with efficiency, as in shooting percentages, not necessarily PPG. While that's a big deal, it's to Amare's credit that he's added so many weapons to his offensive arsenal to fully make the most of every Nash pass, no matter the location on the floor.

[BiZNicK]

I'd take Howard over Stoudamire

remember that half of Amare's points are like easy pick n roll passes from nash.

And dwight can play defense, not just block shots

[Trainwreck2100]

Wrong. I'm not saying they wouldn't be better, but Duncan is nowhere near the athlete, has nowhere near the dribble-drive ability and it's up for debate whether or not his jumper from 15-to-18 feet is as consistant as Amare's.

Duncan has more smarts, better fundamentals and a superior low-post game, but I was talking how each player perfectly complements the other.
\

He had some better skills around the rim till he fucked up his knee