I've Never Been so Angry

[desflood]

My second-grader was in the restroom in school the other day when he was accosted by a group of older kids (fourth or fifth grade). One held him still while four others took turns punching him. He went back to class and told the teacher (a substitute)... who did nothing. Didn't take him to the nurse, didn't report the incident - nothing. I've pulled him out of school for the rest of the year - he'll be homeschooled for a month and a half - and next year he'll attend a small private school.

:flipoff public school.

[florige]

My second-grader was in the restroom in school the other day when he was accosted by a group of older kids (fourth or fifth grade). One held him still while four others took turns punching him. He went back to class and told the teacher (a substitute)... who did nothing. Didn't take him to the nurse, didn't report the incident - nothing. I've pulled him out of school for the rest of the year - he'll be homeschooled for a month and a half - and next year he'll attend a small private school.

:flipoff public school.



Yeah thats terrible. It's sad that substitute teachers can have that whatever attitude when something like that happens.

[td4mvp21]

That's ridiculous. What did the administration say?

[peewee's lovechild]

Public education is shit.

I was a teacher for four years and, god damn, I almost lost my soul in the process.

Things are only going to get worse.

[peewee's lovechild]

You should get your kid in a self defense class, or maybe find someone to teach him some boxing techniques.

They're never too young for that.

[SpursWoman]

I'm so sorry to hear that, desflood. :(

[1369]

I'd be up at the school with my foot in someone's ass if that had been my child.

You need to contact one of the local TV stations and let them investigate why nothing was done.

[SAtown]

A4zPJAFbRpU

[midgetonadonkey]

What school was this and where is it located?

[stretch]

Karate Kid is the solution to your problems.

[florige]

Public education is shit.

I was a teacher for four years and, god damn, I almost lost my soul in the process.

Things are only going to get worse.



A kid just got stabbed here at the middle school I attended....
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-md.ci.stab18apr18,0,7348385.story

[desflood]

It was Powell Elementary.

I talked to the Assistant VP, who was obviously upset not only that it happened, but that it hadn't been reported. She's doing some investigative work (she says) and she'll let us know what she finds out (she says). My husband has an appointment with the principal next week to discuss this further. To their credit, they have already made a few changes (in regards to bathroom schedules and the like) to prevent something like this again. One thing is for sure, we're going to demand that the teacher receive some sort of discipline for her inaction.

[spursfan09]

Damn thats horrible to hear. I'm sorry. That substitue teacher is a dumbass.

[spursfan09]

Oh and I hope those kids get what is coming to them to. Life in prison? Jk, but just to scare them...

[mrsmaalox]

My son's elementary school has a buddy system rule that is VERY strictly enforced. No kid goes anywhere in the school alone. I don't know how much that helps, but the boys in your case might not have been so bold if he hadn't been alone.

[Don Quixote]

Oh and I hope those kids get what is coming to them to. Life in prison? Jk, but just to scare them...

You're not far from the truth.

I've subbed in New Orleans schools, and I can only shake my head at these kids, whom we will release upon society in a few short years.

I can only pray that, whatever horrible things these kids do to someone to get themselves transferred from the school system to the prison system, they don't do it to me or my family.

[mrsmaalox]

You're not far from the truth.

I've subbed in New Orleans schools, and I can only shake my head at these kids, whom we will release upon society in a few short years.

I can only pray that, whatever horrible things these kids do to someone to get themselves transferred from the school system to the prison system, they don't do it to me or my family.

My friend is a Special Ed. teacher here in S.A. She works exclusively with the "emotionally disturbed" whom she affectionately refers to as the "Future Delinquents of America Club".

[desflood]

My son's elementary school has a buddy system rule that is VERY strictly enforced. No kid goes anywhere in the school alone. I don't know how much that helps, but the boys in your case might not have been so bold if he hadn't been alone.
Same here. The kids go to the bathroom in pairs specifically so something like this doesn't happen. My son went with his friend, who he says tried to get the kids to stop, but what can two seven-year-olds do against five 10- or 11-year-olds?

[phyzik]

This is one of those times you get some of YOUR friends and have your kid point out the kids that did it... then YOUR friends get out and scare the living shit out of them. See how they like it.

[purist]

Public education is shit.

I was a teacher for four years and, god damn, I almost lost my soul in the process.

Things are only going to get worse.

If it is shit as you say, it is only because we've taken the public out of public education. rather than demand the proper action, parents too often pull their kids and leave the system as is for the next poor schlepp to come along.

We need to be engaged in public education from a positive input perspective so that when bad incidents do arise, we have a voice and platform to effect change. Too often, school administrator don't hear from parents except for when little johnny has got some trouble.

Public schools are always in need of helpful volunteers willing to lend a hand, not just enraged parents reacting to a situation.

the truth is you put kids together in most any situation and crap like what happened in this case is likely to happen. it shouldn't be an indictment of the public school system, it should be an indictment of the poor way in which we are raising, or not raising, our kids.

there was a time when kids who did what these kids did would not onlyl get in trouble at school, they would likely get their asses whipped when they got home.

But we can't do that now, can we. we call it child abuse nowadays.

we can't have our cake and eat it too.

[Los Spurs]

That's just terrible... I hope those bullies get the punishment they deserve.

[midgetonadonkey]

Karate Kid is the solution to your problems.


Exactly. The Karate Kid is the teacher of many of my life lessons. I suggest you sit those kids down in front of a TV and play that movie for them twice a day for at least a month.

[CuckingFunt]

If it is shit as you say, it is only because we've taken the public out of public education. rather than demand the proper action, parents too often pull their kids and leave the system as is for the next poor schlepp to come along.

We need to be engaged in public education from a positive input perspective so that when bad incidents do arise, we have a voice and platform to effect change. Too often, school administrator don't hear from parents except for when little johnny has got some trouble.

Public schools are always in need of helpful volunteers willing to lend a hand, not just enraged parents reacting to a situation.

the truth is you put kids together in most any situation and crap like what happened in this case is likely to happen. it shouldn't be an indictment of the public school system, it should be an indictment of the poor way in which we are raising, or not raising, our kids.


Absolutely agree with all of this.

The public school system is not inherently dysfunctional. If it's broken now, it's because we, as a society, broke it.

[desflood]

If it is shit as you say, it is only because we've taken the public out of public education. rather than demand the proper action, parents too often pull their kids and leave the system as is for the next poor schlepp to come along.

We need to be engaged in public education from a positive input perspective so that when bad incidents do arise, we have a voice and platform to effect change. Too often, school administrator don't hear from parents except for when little johnny has got some trouble.

Public schools are always in need of helpful volunteers willing to lend a hand, not just enraged parents reacting to a situation.

the truth is you put kids together in most any situation and crap like what happened in this case is likely to happen. it shouldn't be an indictment of the public school system, it should be an indictment of the poor way in which we are raising, or not raising, our kids.

there was a time when kids who did what these kids did would not onlyl get in trouble at school, they would likely get their asses whipped when they got home.

But we can't do that now, can we. we call it child abuse nowadays.

we can't have our cake and eat it too.
To some extent, I agree with a lot of this. My husband and I volunteer regularly at both of our kids' schools. But at the same time, this isn't the first time this has happened - it's not even the first time it's happened to my kid. So yes, we're abandoning the system this time in favor of our child's physical and emotional well-being.

[JoeChalupa]

My son's elementary school has a buddy system rule that is VERY strictly enforced. No kid goes anywhere in the school alone. I don't know how much that helps, but the boys in your case might not have been so bold if he hadn't been alone.

My daughter's school has the same policy. As a matter of fact she's currently the "monitor" and is to tell the teacher if anyone is not behaving.

I hope everything turns out for the best.

[JoeChalupa]

If it is shit as you say, it is only because we've taken the public out of public education. rather than demand the proper action, parents too often pull their kids and leave the system as is for the next poor schlepp to come along.

We need to be engaged in public education from a positive input perspective so that when bad incidents do arise, we have a voice and platform to effect change. Too often, school administrator don't hear from parents except for when little johnny has got some trouble.

Public schools are always in need of helpful volunteers willing to lend a hand, not just enraged parents reacting to a situation.

the truth is you put kids together in most any situation and crap like what happened in this case is likely to happen. it shouldn't be an indictment of the public school system, it should be an indictment of the poor way in which we are raising, or not raising, our kids.

there was a time when kids who did what these kids did would not onlyl get in trouble at school, they would likely get their asses whipped when they got home.

But we can't do that now, can we. we call it child abuse nowadays.

we can't have our cake and eat it too.

I concur. The public school system for all its failure's still puts out top notch students who get accepted into the finest universities in the country. And yes I know all about how home schooled kids do better and that is great but I believe you get out of it what you put in.
Don't mean to try to hijack this thread though.

A child's safety is #1.

[smeagol]

My second-grader was in the restroom in school the other day when he was accosted by a group of older kids (fourth or fifth grade). One held him still while four others took turns punching him. He went back to class and told the teacher (a substitute)... who did nothing. Didn't take him to the nurse, didn't report the incident - nothing. I've pulled him out of school for the rest of the year - he'll be homeschooled for a month and a half - and next year he'll attend a small private school.

:flipoff public school.

That sucks bigtime.

I'm sorry to here that, des.

[peewee's lovechild]

I concur. The public school system for all its failure's still puts out top notch students who get accepted into the finest universities in the country. And yes I know all about how home schooled kids do better and that is great but I believe you get out of it what you put in.
Don't mean to try to hijack this thread though.

A child's safety is #1.

It depends on what school district your talking about.

The school disctrict I worked at, the city's only school district, it was pretty shitty.

And, when you add up the percentage of students that actually get a decent education, it's dwarfed by the percentage of students who don't get any kind of education.

Overall, the public education system has failed.
And, it continues to fail.

[easjer]

I'm so sorry that this happened. I'm glad some action is being taken, but it shouldn't have to come down to you pulling your child out to protect them.

[lil'mo]

we should not let so many kids in school. they should have to take entrance exams when they are babies and if they are'nt smart enough then get em the fuck outta there and putem to work in the fields

[Nbadan]

we should not let so many kids in school. they should have to take entrance exams when they are babies and if they are'nt smart enough then get em the fuck outta there and putem to work in the fields

:lol

[Nbadan]

To some extent, I agree with a lot of this. My husband and I volunteer regularly at both of our kids' schools. But at the same time, this isn't the first time this has happened - it's not even the first time it's happened to my kid. So yes, we're abandoning the system this time in favor of our child's physical and emotional well-being.

Have you reported the past incidents to the school and school district, and if yes, why haven't you sought legal counsel?

[Chris Duel]

My second-grader was in the restroom in school the other day when he was accosted by a group of older kids (fourth or fifth grade). One held him still while four others took turns punching him. He went back to class and told the teacher (a substitute)... who did nothing. Didn't take him to the nurse, didn't report the incident - nothing. I've pulled him out of school for the rest of the year - he'll be homeschooled for a month and a half - and next year he'll attend a small private school.

:flipoff public school.

This is so horrible.

That substitute teacher needs to be suspended for a year and perhaps never work again.

So sorry to hear this. You are right to be taking action on behalf of your child.

[Nbadan]

That substitute teacher needs to be suspended for a year and perhaps never work again.

Substitute teachers aren't necessarily representatives of the district, most are just $8-10/hour babysitters, so it's not surprising that they wouldn't know district policy regarding incidents like this...

[BacktoBasics]

I been to private schools and I'll say first hand that they represent well on the surface but there is even less structure and supervision on those levels.

Why:

They actually expect the kids to act responsible and be responsible for their own actions. Neat concept huh...too bad we live in a generation hellbent on having someone else whipe their asses.

[RandomGuy]

Absolutely agree with all of this.

The public school system is not inherently dysfunctional. If it's broken now, it's because we, as a society, broke it.

I agree.

We as a nation have gone overboard on the individuality crap.

We dont know how to belong to communities anymore.

Name the people on your street. Go on. If you can't name every single person on your block, you are part of the problem.

If you live in the country, and can't name the people who live within 10 miles of your house, you are part of the problem.

[Don Quixote]

I agree.

We as a nation have gone overboard on the individuality crap.

We dont know how to belong to communities anymore.

Name the people on your street. Go on. If you can't name every single person on your block, you are part of the problem.

If you live in the country, and can't name the people who live within 10 miles of your house, you are part of the problem.

Did I just get judged?

Okay. I get it. I am part of the problem! I am a bad person.

But yes, we do go overboard in our individualism. I think it has fascinating implications in our theology and anthropology (theology of man).

[PEP]

Its all due to societys breakdown, family values went down the toilet, personal responsibility is gone, are kids even held back anymore? Hell, just look at some of the posters here who have no regard for morals or values.

They laugh at others misfortunes or mock others religious views, nice people in society.

[peewee's lovechild]

are kids even held back anymore?

Not really.

A very small percentage of kids get held back.

When I was teaching, I was encouraged to pass kids who were flunking. When I refused, they threw the book at me.

So, when the year came to a close, I have all of the flunking kids a circle 70 and all was right in the world. My principal congratulated me on an excellent year.

It really is that pathetic.

[Shaolin-Style]

That sucks. I can't wait to be a teacher, so I can redeem the title from these lazy indifferent bitches who get tenure and stop caring don't give us a bad reputation.

[ALVAREZ6]

I'm gonna take the other side and say public school is not shit.

It might be shit in your area, but that's not because it's the actual public school that makes it shit, it's just your area. Your community. The kids in a public school reflect the population in that area.

So if you don't live in a bad city, I think public school is much better. I don't understand the parents that spend as much or in some cases more money on their kids' HS education for private schools than a college eduaction. It's paying a hell of a lot more money to put your kids in a fabricated environment. At least this doesn't make sense in my area, where the public schools have better teachers and produce extremely talented students.

That sucks your kid got attacked like that, that's aweful. But you might as well be saying fuck people, not fuck public school. desflood, do you live in San Antonio, or the suburbs..what's the deal?

[Heath Ledger]

Peewees Lovechild and educator? NOw that is some scary ass shit right there. Our country is in deep doo doo.

[smeagol]

Peewees Lovechild and educator? NOw that is some scary ass shit right there. Our country is in deep doo doo.

:lol:lol:lol:lol


Yes . . . the same guy that claims all Argies fuck cows . . .

[remingtonbo2001]

That sucks. I can't wait to be a teacher, so I can redeem the title from these lazy indifferent bitches who get tenure and stop caring don't give us a bad reputation.

:lol Good Luck. You'd be better off obtaining an administrative position or a postion on the school board in order to make effective changes within the structure of a school's policies. Believe or not, most teachers hands are tied down by the system.

In the case mentioned, that is a flaw of the administration, not so much the system. They need to do a better job of hiring qualified professionals. Really, it's the administration which needs to be diciplined for their neglect which caused harm to the child.

[angel_luv]

Deflood-

I am so sorry about what happened to your son. How horrible. I am angry right there with you.
Is your son okay other than the obvious upset of being misued like that?

[peewee's lovechild]

That sucks. I can't wait to be a teacher, so I can redeem the title from these lazy indifferent bitches who get tenure and stop caring don't give us a bad reputation.


You will soon find out why they become lazy and indifferent.

Take this little bit of advice:

Don't go into it with an idealist attitude.

You can choose to ignore it if you like, but you've been warned.

[peewee's lovechild]

I'm gonna take the other side and say public school is not shit.

It might be shit in your area, but that's not because it's the actual public school that makes it shit, it's just your area. Your community. The kids in a public school reflect the population in that area.

So if you don't live in a bad city, I think public school is much better. I don't understand the parents that spend as much or in some cases more money on their kids' HS education for private schools than a college eduaction. It's paying a hell of a lot more money to put your kids in a fabricated environment. At least this doesn't make sense in my area, where the public schools have better teachers and produce extremely talented students.

That sucks your kid got attacked like that, that's aweful. But you might as well be saying fuck people, not fuck public school. desflood, do you live in San Antonio, or the suburbs..what's the deal?

What's the median income for your area?

How much revenue does your school district take in?

Now, comapre all of that to the average in the U.S.
You will find that yours is not the norm.

[peewee's lovechild]

You'd be better off obtaining an administrative position or a postion on the school board in order to make effective changes within the structure of a school's policies.

In most cases, not even they can make any effective changes.

[1Parker1]

Desflod I am so sorry to hear that. Almost the same thing happened to my little nephew who's in 2nd grade.

They were in recess and some kid pushed him really hard. He fell to the ground and used his hands to break his fall on the concrete. He had cuts and stuff, told the substitute teacher inside, and she sent him to the nurse who just washed his hands and told him to go back to class. He comes home, his wrists were all swollen and my sister said what happened? And he told her what happened and that his hands hurt. My sister takes him to the doctor...how about he fractured BOTH his wrists??? And the f-ing teacher or nurse didn't even bother seeing his swollen wrists or even calling my sister to tell her about the incident.

Meanwhile, my youngest nephew (who goes to the same school) the week before was sent home by the same exact nurse because the teacher said he was sneezing and coughing in class so he may be getting sick. He got home, he didn't sneeze or cough once. :wtf

My sister in on a mission though.

[BacktoBasics]

Desflod I am so sorry to hear that. Almost the same thing happened to my little nephew who's in 2nd grade.

They were in recess and some kid pushed him really hard. He fell to the ground and used his hands to break his fall on the concrete. He had cuts and stuff, told the substitute teacher inside, and she sent him to the nurse who just washed his hands and told him to go back to class. He comes home, his wrists were all swollen and my sister said what happened? And he told her what happened and that his hands hurt. My sister takes him to the doctor...how about he fractured BOTH his wrists??? And the f-ing teacher or nurse didn't even bother seeing his swollen wrists or even calling my sister to tell her about the incident.

Meanwhile, my youngest nephew (who goes to the same school) the week before was sent home by the same exact nurse because the teacher said he was sneezing and coughing in class so he may be getting sick. He got home, he didn't sneeze or cough once. :wtf

My sister in on a mission though.That sounds like a great opportunity to secure enough finances that your family, my family and their family will never have to work again.

[JoeChalupa]

My experience with all my daughter's teachers has always been a positive one. Every teacher we speak to always shows concern for their education and always make time for us to speak with them about any concerns we have with their grades. Every single one of them. They respond to our e-mails, notes we put in their planners.
But we are very active in their education. We go the parent meetings and school meetings. We monitor thier progress reports and when we do some something of concern they are always ready to help in anyway they can.
My experience is that if a teacher sees parental involvement and knows you care as much as they do they will bend over backwards to help.
IMO, I feel some of the blame with public education begins at home. Too many students do not know how to behave in school and have no respect for authority.
I can't believe how some kids in HS talk to their teachers. No way I could have gotten away with that when I was in school. Teachers are there to teach and not babysit. Too many expect the public school system to do all the work while they just send their kids to school. It doesn't work that way.
I think teachers have one of the hardest jobs around and I respect them for their dedication and I do believe that the majority do it for the love of teaching and not the money.

[peewee's lovechild]

My experience is that if a teacher sees parental involvement and knows you care as much as they do they will bend over backwards to help.


This is very true.

But, parents that do that are few and far between.




IMO, I feel some of the blame with public education begins at home. Too many students do not know how to behave in school and have no respect for authority.
I can't believe how some kids in HS talk to their teachers. No way I could have gotten away with that when I was in school. Teachers are there to teach and not babysit. Too many expect the public school system to do all the work while they just send their kids to school. It doesn't work that way.
I think teachers have one of the hardest jobs around and I respect them for their dedication and I do believe that the majority do it for the love of teaching and not the money.


JC, you seem to be a good parent.

If more parents shared your point of view, things would be so different.

But, unfortunatly, they don't. And, that leads to a great percentage of the problems we now see in public education.

[Heath Ledger]

You should make up a bumpers sticker, "My 2nd grader was beat up by your 5th grade honor roll student"

[RashoFan]

Substitute teachers aren't necessarily representatives of the district, most are just $8-10/hour babysitters, so it's not surprising that they wouldn't know district policy regarding incidents like this...

Not surprised that they may not know district policies....What surprises me is that ANY teacher who would not at least have a child looked over by the school nurse after they just told you that they were hit by several children or a single child. That is irresponsible!!! I would like to go slap the subsitiute for their lack of responsibility to any child!:ihit

[desflood]

Well, now that it's all said and done... we get nothing. They couldn't figure out which kids were involved. The teacher's excuse for not reporting it was, "Well, he didn't seem upset enough to report anything." So, no disciplinary action for her either. Big fat ZERO.

[marini martini]

That's crummy, Des Flood!
Are you still planning to take your son out of school this year?

[MannyIsGod]

Des, really shitty situation. Hope you made some administrators lives hell.

Public School....ahhh, where to begin.

Here's the thing, our school systems failing are simply a sympton of much bigger issues. You can start where ever you want if you're going to analyze the problem. You can start with the lack of parental involvement, the lack of financial compensation for teachers, the lack of accountability in the entire system whether it be for teachers or students or administrators, or you can start with our societies general (lack of) values.

The drop out rate is now insanely high. Kids don't give a shit about school, parents don't give a shit, and teachers are paid pretty poorly. You get horrible teachers in the system because there's no way the money is worth the effort.

Honestly, I couldn't care less about our public school system at this time. Our national mindset nowhere near where it needs to be in order to fix things. We don't address the real problems and there isn't anyway to fix them until you do that. My kids will go to a private school - the best i can afford - because I'll be damned if I"m going to let them turn into one of the many degenerates that roam those public school halls today. And I'll be damned if I'm going to let some dumbshit teach them what they barely comprehend themselves.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, now that it's all said and done... we get nothing. They couldn't figure out which kids were involved. The teacher's excuse for not reporting it was, "Well, he didn't seem upset enough to report anything." So, no disciplinary action for her either. Big fat ZERO.

Accountability is a wonderful thing huh?

[JoeChalupa]

Sorry to hear things didn't turn out better.

My kids will continue to attend the public school system and I'll support them all the way. I think my oldest may be doing ROTC next year and I hope she does.

Best of luck to all parents out there!!!

[tlongII]

I got beat up when I was in grade school on multiple occassions. I don't think this is a "new" problem. Kids can be mean.

[desflood]

I wanted to thank everybody for the sympathetic ear :lol He'll be in private school beginning May 1st. It's so far ahead of the public schools that "despite the fact that he's obviously very bright and he's a hard worker, we might not feel comfortable putting him into third grade next year." Oh, gods! More problems!! :reading

[JoeChalupa]

That is great news!! Good Luck!!

[BacktoBasics]

I guess it falls on deaf ears but I've been to both TMI and Central Catholic schools and I can tell you first hand that while both schools presented well to myself and my parents the assumption that they're better isn't always the case.

TMI a Military school for christ sake was far and away the worse. Teacher calls in sick no big deal students could roam freely till the end of the day or hang out in the gym or indoor swim center or the student lounge. Never questioned or stopped by an administrator because they assume you're doing what needs to be done. Try getting away with that in a public school. Rarely and I mean rarely would you see a substitute teacher.

Sure you have higher grades or a higher % of graduation but the relaxed attitude of the teachers and parents financial backing was really what accomplished those feats.

I was met with far more violence than I ever saw in any public schools, mostly handled internally without informing the parents. Those teachers and administrators simply weren't prepared for bad behaving children and worst case scenarios WHY, the expection of a higher quality person was front and center. That in of itself makes it so much easier to cheat a system or get away with things you wouldn't dream of doing in public school. Not to mention the fact that these kids were a lot smarter than your average dillhole joe public. Hiding contraband and weapons was more of an art form than anything. A smarter thug is still a thug and every school has them.

Anyway I've seen a lot and been to more than a handful of schools. I really hope you find a place that works for not just you but for your kids too. Hopefully private school will be money well spent.

[JoeChalupa]

If we were going to go private school it'd be a Catholic School.

[BacktoBasics]

If we were going to go private school it'd be a Catholic School.Because you're religious?

[lebomb]

Some of the biggest SLUT girls I have ever met in my life went to private schools. Some of the guys were stoners as well. I really dont think it matters as long as you study and stay away from trouble. JMHO.

[mrsmaalox]

I tend to agree with Joe and B2B about private vs public schools. Of course none of my kids has ever gotten beaten up! But my kid(s) were all privately schooled in Washington, Georgia and Maryland. When we moved to Texas my husband and I figured we were products of Texas public schools, why not try it? We all LOVE it here. The teachers are concerned, dedicated, and much more open to discussion. The private schools all had an air of secrecy, kind of like, "Ma'am, this is a private school, how dare you ask that!" and the illusion of being better was that---an illusion. Yes the difference is money (you can perfume a pig) and we just felt our $3000/yr per kid would be better served going towards college. I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes Des, but I'm glad you have the means to do what is right for your family!

[JoeChalupa]

Because you're religious?

I'm Catholic and believe in God. Is that religious?

[BacktoBasics]

I'm Catholic and believe in God. Is that religious?Only you know that.

One very interesting eye opening moment for me was the Religion class I took or had to take at Central Catholic. Day 1 the Nun had "GOD" written on the chalk board. Once everyone settled in she pulled out the biggest bible I've ever seen and said. "guys the very first thing you should learn is that this (the book) isn't the same thing as that (GOD written on the chalk board). She proceeded to give a class on the bible being a book of reference for strength to strive to do the right thing day in and day out. She called them "fables and stories" with little factual basis. I was shocked because I was prepared for the by the book mentality. I actually did very well in the class because her and I shared similar beliefs.

My point is that for a very religious family looking at private school you'd be surprised at how little research into the fundamental teachings parents do. I'd suspect had any of those parents known what was being taught they'd second guess sending their kids.

For some people or families it doesn't matter. My parents just wanted me to go to a good school Catholic so it was a non issue.

[TOP-CHERRY]

You can start with the lack of parental involvement, the lack of financial compensation for teachers, the lack of accountability in the entire system whether it be for teachers or students or administrators, or you can start with our societies general (lack of) values.

The drop out rate is now insanely high. Kids don't give a shit about school, parents don't give a shit, and teachers are paid pretty poorly. You get horrible teachers in the system because there's no way the money is worth the effort.

My belief is that even if you have a single person in a child's life, whether it be a parent or teacher, who cares enough about their education, that's all it takes for them to do well in school. Obviously it's harder to change parents' attitudes about education, but it's relatively easier to change teachers' attitudes, especially before they start teaching. I think a lot of the problems start with teachers giving up on students they believe will never achieve much, be it in school or in life. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. There was a study on teachers' expectations of students that demonstrated this:


As part of a study, prior to the start of a new school year, teachers were given a list of the students who would be entering their classrooms. Next to each student’s name was an indication that the student was a “poor,” “average,” or “excellent” pupil. At the end of the year, the grades the students earned were compared to the ratings their teachers had been given earlier. For the most part, the performance of the students matched the level of academic capability indicated on the list.

The “kicker” in this study was that the “poor,” “average,” and “excellent” notations were made entirely at random. There was no connection between an individual’s rating and his or her past performance, test scores, readiness assessments, or anything else. In other words, it was clear that during the school year, the students lived up to the high or low expectations of the teachers rather than to their actual potential.

The implications of this study are tremendous and tragic. For generations, large groups of children have been doomed to less than stellar scholastic records due to popular prejudices and preconceived notions concerning their race, ethnicity, or gender. And countless individual kids have never been allowed to develop their capacities fully because of conscious or unconscious beliefs and attitudes their teachers acquired as the result of experiences with older siblings, comments written in their official records, or offhand remarks made by colleagues.

And it's the same with honors courses in high school, where only the students with the best grades get in. The teachers' expectations for those classes are obviously higher than the rest, so it isn't surprising that those students keep doing well. I learned a lot in my AP classes, but the "regular" classes were crap. And those were the ones full of kids who didn't care. And nothing about their apathy is intrinsic. They learn it. And the less teachers care, the less students care. You can't expect students to stop that cycle on their own. Teachers need to do it.

Once teachers understand that, and really believe it, I think things can really start changing.

[mrsmaalox]

That's so much pressure. One good teacher is often times the only chance a kid has!

[JoeChalupa]

Only you know that.

One very interesting eye opening moment for me was the Religion class I took or had to take at Central Catholic. Day 1 the Nun had "GOD" written on the chalk board. Once everyone settled in she pulled out the biggest bible I've ever seen and said. "guys the very first thing you should learn is that this (the book) isn't the same thing as that (GOD written on the chalk board). She proceeded to give a class on the bible being a book of reference for strength to strive to do the right thing day in and day out. She called them "fables and stories" with little factual basis. I was shocked because I was prepared for the by the book mentality. I actually did very well in the class because her and I shared similar beliefs.

My point is that for a very religious family looking at private school you'd be surprised at how little research into the fundamental teachings parents do. I'd suspect had any of those parents known what was being taught they'd second guess sending their kids.

For some people or families it doesn't matter. My parents just wanted me to go to a good school Catholic so it was a non issue.

I concur. Parental involvement is crucial, IMO, in teaching your children regardless of where they go. Even if they are home schooled.

[Supreme_Being]

I suggest you take some advice from Back2Basics.