Game 1's Officiating

[SpurCapita]

Sorry to make a thread about officiating in any way, shape, or form, but I was wondering what y'all's perceptions were on today's officiating. Personally, I didn't think it was so bad, especially considering it was against Phoenix and Bennett Salvatore's tweenage girl of a whistle was in the building. Now, though, I've seen a few here who are obviously upset about some of the calls, and I also just read this from Charlie Rosen's (yeah...him) article about the game:


# According to my very unofficial count, the referees made one horrific call that favored the Spurs — a charge on Shaq when Oberto clearly flopped.

# At the same time, the three blind mice favored the Suns with a total of eight blatantly botched calls. The most important being a clean block on Stoudemire that went into the books as a foul on TD and a pair of made free throws.

What are y'all's thoughts? :flag:

[Amare_32]

The officiating was even both ways.

[dbestpro]

You should have seen the game in person. It was a joke. Call after bogus call went the Suns way and still the Spurs won. You also probably didn't see all of the cheap crap the Suns were doing on TV away from the ball. I will say this. Shaq us a true Sun now. He's starting to whine just like the rest of them.

If the rest of the games ares called even the Suns are in serious trouble.

[Guajalote]

I think it was well-balanced. If we would have lost, I wouldn't have been complaining about the officiating.

[Budkin]

I thought it was totally skewed to the Suns... you fucking breathe on Amare and it's a foul, while the Spurs get mugged and nothing. I can't believe we won today with the way the calls were going.

[T Park]

Danny Crawford will be in tuesday to right the wrongs :lol

Hes doing the Rockets game tonight, so I'm assuming he does the game on tuesday.

Maybe not.

[E20]

The officiating was bad for the Suns and the Spurs.

[Amare_32]

Danny Crawford will be in tuesday to right the wrongs :lol

Hes doing the Rockets game tonight, so I'm assuming he does the game on tuesday.

Maybe not.

Or maybe Joey Crawford. I may be wrong but I don't think he worked any of today's games. As a road team he is the ref you want. He is pretty even in his calls and he does not get caught up with home cooking.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Or maybe Joey Crawford. I may be wrong but I don't think he worked any of today's games. As a road team he is the ref you want. He is pretty even in his calls and he does not get caught up with home cooking.

And he hates Tim Duncan.

[peskypesky]

Suns got more calls even thought Spurs were the home team and were taking it to the hole. Seems pretty obvious to me that the NBA is favoring the Penis Nones.

[Whisky Dog]

Suns got the benefit of the calls, but the Spurs dug themselves into the big hole. I thought the two worst calls of the game were the foul on TD on Amare's shot where TD never touched him, and Shaq elbowing Manu in the face on the shot late in regulation in a 1 pt game that led to Boboso's layup. If called correctly the Spurs win in regulation without needing any big shots.

[BiZNicK]

They need to assign a ref to specifically review replays of controversal calls...

[carina_gino20]

They need to assign a ref to specifically review replays of controversal calls...

They always review calls after every game. Whether they admit their mistakes publicly is another thing.

[timvp]

The most important being a clean block on Stoudemire that went into the books as a foul on TD and a pair of made free throws.That was the only blatantly bad call I saw.

[TwoHandJam]

The refs were pretty bad. Not surprising considering that sad state of affairs officiating in the NBA has been for some time now. Salvatore is so bad it isn't funny. He was responsible for a lot of bad calls on both ends of the floor but most of them went against us. Interesting that someone impartial to either team like Rosen would think so as well. The Duncan/Amare call was just hideous.

[ShoogarBear]

It was about as good of quality as you can expect. They let the players decide the game, for the most part.

[FromWayDowntown]

I thought Tony Brothers was shaky at times during the game. I have no idea what Pop said to him in the 2nd Quarter (arguing a possession call) but I thought it seemed a little thin-skinned of him to T up Pop at that point.

Callahan got pretty much everything right -- as usual. I didn't like the charge on Tim's drive into Nash, but it was pretty clearly the correct call and to the extent that it might have been iffy at all Callahan rewarded Duncan on the next possession for going aggressively at Diaw. I didn't understand the reasoning, either, on Callahan's call assessing a foul to Bell when Manu came over a Thomas screen and seemed to run directly into Kurt.

Salvatore is Salvatore, but there's nothing new there.

I did feel, at times, that the Spurs got dinged for some touch fouls and that they were having to earn fouls on the other end, but I think that's a product of the way the teams defend -- the Suns don't challenge every shot the way the Spurs do and, thus, the Spurs will get dinged for more ticky-tacky stuff in contesting shots.

[ambchang]

I actually didn't think the game was that poorly officiated, I thought it's about as even as possible, but then I didn't catch the game until a few minutes left in the 3rd.

The players were able to decide no the plays, and this is how the games should be called. Given that Salvatore was in it, and that it was only 1st round, couldn't complain too much, even if the Spurs lost.

[DDS4]

The Suns got more beneficial calls, but that wasn't the problem.

I thought the number of offensive fouls on both sides was atrocious. Both teams flopped and I'd like to see more non-calls from now on.

[peewee's lovechild]

It was bad overall.

Shack punching in Tonys face was pretty bad.

[Trainwreck2100]

It was about as good of quality as you can expect. They let the players decide the game, for the most part.

Hell yes, fuck winning at the line

[Obstructed_View]

That was the only blatantly bad call I saw.

You must have missed when Duncan was called for a charge on Nash, when he was called for a foul on either Shaq or Amare when he didn't actually touch anyone, when Amare changed his pivot foot twice and jumped into Timmy's chest, Parker's sixth foul, Shaq's sixth, seventh and eighth fouls, Amare throwing himself into Oberto's armpit to draw a foul.

That's just off the top of my head. I've never watched a Spurs game before where I felt grateful that the Spurs got a whistle on an obvious call.

That said, if the Spurs don't turn the ball over eight times in the first quarter and stop running offensive plays for Bruce to create his own shot with the clock winding down it's a complete non-issue.

[Fabbs]

Is traveling back to 4 or 5 steps in the NBA?
I saw plenty, like Barbosos layup after the Manu glory shot attempt got stuffed by Snac. Mostly by Suns, especially Amare and his country line dance regular 3-4 steps, but by some Spurs also.
Allegedly the NBA was going to clean that up.

One obvious foul was late reg when Tim did an Iceman type roll layup. He drove the lane and banged into Fats who was clearly inside the arc with one foot. Should have been a +1.

[Obstructed_View]

Is traveling back to 4 or 5 steps in the NBA?
I saw plenty, like Barbosos layup after the Manu glory shot attempt got stuffed by Snac. Mostly by Suns, especially Amare and his country line dance regular 3-4 steps, but by some Spurs also.
Allegedly the NBA was going to clean that up.

They called it on Parker, what the hell are you complaining about? :tongue

Seriously, I didn't see that much traveling. Parker and Amare both walked. If you wanted to see legendary traveling, you should have watched Scola last night. He got away with about four of them in a two minute stretch.

[Spider TX]

Get off it people. The Suns did not get all these extra calls like you all bitch about every time the Spurs play a game. It always goes the other teams way even when your team wins. All you are trying to do is make your team sound better. Yes, they won, congrats, you're up 1-0, but the officiating was EXTREMELY fair the entire game, and the team that hit the late shots won.

Some of you get so damn annoying with this officials talk, and it's always skewed in your favor. GET OFF IT!!!

[Spider TX]

[QUOTE=Obstructed_View;2411374]You must have missed when Duncan was called for a charge on Nash, when he was called for a foul on either Shaq or Amare when he didn't actually touch anyone, when Amare changed his pivot foot twice and jumped into Timmy's chest, Parker's sixth foul, Shaq's sixth, seventh and eighth fouls, Amare throwing himself into Oberto's armpit to draw a foul.

That's just off the top of my head. I've never watched a Spurs game before where I felt grateful that the Spurs got a whistle on an obvious call.

What an absolute joke that last statement is, exactly what I meant by my last post. Spurs always get screwed and finds ways to win, blah blah blah. Shut up with that junk, you know damn well the Spurs get their share of calls.

[Obstructed_View]

The Suns did not get all these extra calls like you all bitch about every time the Spurs play a game.
Yeah, I do this a lot. I think the last time I complained about a foul was when Duncan fouled out for having his foot stepped on by Dirk. :lol



What an absolute joke that last statement is, exactly what I meant by my last post. Spurs always get screwed and finds ways to win, blah blah blah. Shut up with that junk, you know damn well the Spurs get their share of calls.

I'll be waiting for examples of all the calls the Spurs got.

[Spider TX]

You're a complete homer, so no matter what anyone brings up, you will never agree with it. The Spurs, along with every other team gets cheap calls, it's the way the NBA works, not some crap that 29 get calls against them, and the Spurs have never had a cheap whistle go their way. Quit sounding like a fool man.

[Obstructed_View]

You're a complete homer, so no matter what anyone brings up, you will never agree with it. The Spurs, along with every other team gets cheap calls, it's the way the NBA works, not some crap that 29 get calls against them, and the Spurs have never had a cheap whistle go their way. Quit sounding like a fool man.

Yeah, I didn't think you were going to be able to come up with any.

[robino2001]

Someone else said it also... I thought the officiating was HORRIBLE, but that was from my perspective inside the arena, so maybe it was just skewed by the angle if so many people were saying it was fair. I did get the impression that the refs did what they could late to keep Shaq in the game. I have a very hard time believing all of the drives to the basket right at Shaq... and not a single foul when he swings his arms in a downward motion every single time.

One minor thing that I thought was horrible was right at the end of the 1st half, I don't remember which Spur took the shot - Grant Hill got the rebound and stood on the baseline waiting to find someone to outlet to. My ass is in the upper level and it was clear as day to me, but the refs are all jogging down the court for the next possession. I know, it's super minor, just got me even more pissed off at the time.

[rascal]

Every game has missed calls. Officials are not favoring one team.

This complaining about officiating would even be worse than this had the spurs lost.

[DarrinS]

You're a complete homer, so no matter what anyone brings up, you will never agree with it. The Spurs, along with every other team gets cheap calls, it's the way the NBA works, not some crap that 29 get calls against them, and the Spurs have never had a cheap whistle go their way. Quit sounding like a fool man.


You should have been jumping for joy when you saw this guy on the court. Bennet Salvatore hates Pop and he hates the Spurs. There were shitty calls in that game, but there were an equal number of shitty calls for both teams.

http://www.82games.com/salvatore.jpg


I still say the best ref in the game is Dan Crawford.

[Obstructed_View]

Every game has missed calls. Officials are not favoring one team.

This complaining about officiating would even be worse than this had the spurs lost.

If the Spurs had lost, it would have been on them for playing so poorly in the first quarter. You don't give a good team a big lead and ever expect to win.

That said, Suns fans are known for going crazy after "evenly officiated" games. Even they know they can't blame the zebras for this one.

[Obstructed_View]

You should have been jumping for joy when you saw this guy on the court. Bennet Salvatore hates Pop and he hates the Spurs. There were shitty calls in that game, but there were an equal number of shitty calls for both teams.

http://www.82games.com/salvatore.jpg


I still say the best ref in the game is Dan Crawford.

Except that there really weren't.

[urunobili]

You should have been jumping for joy when you saw this guy on the court. Bennet Salvatore hates Pop and he hates the Spurs. There were shitty calls in that game, but there were an equal number of shitty calls for both teams.

http://www.82games.com/salvatore.jpg


I still say the best ref in the game is Dan Crawford.

Dan Crawford? r u kidding me? steve Javie is the best

[DarrinS]

Except that there really weren't.

I'll just name one. Tim cleanly blocked one of Amare's shots and put Amare on the line for 2.

[DarrinS]

Dan Crawford? r u kidding me? steve Javie is the best


:lol



What about Joey Crawford. He's a bigtime Tim Duncan fan.

[Obstructed_View]

I'll just name one. Tim cleanly blocked one of Amare's shots and put Amare on the line for 2.

I don't remember that one, but that would mean that all three of Duncan's fouls were on BS calls.

[my2sons]

it is fun to talk about what a horrible job brothers did yesterday, just to see what phx troll would come out a call me a homer...Yes I love my spurs, yes i am a homer, yes brothers sucked.

[sanman53]

I thought the refs let the players decide the game from the 4thQ and both overtimes. The first three Q's it seemed like the ref's went whistle happy. However, I am sure they are aware of the intensity of this matchup and the drama between these two teams and do not want a fight to get started, so they will be very whistle happy.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

You should have been jumping for joy when you saw this guy on the court. Bennet Salvatore hates the game of basketball. There were shitty calls in that game, but there were an equal number of shitty calls for both teams.

http://www.82games.com/salvatore.jpg


I still say the best ref in the game is Dan Crawford.

Fixed.

[FromWayDowntown]

Dan Crawford? r u kidding me? steve Javie is the best

I still think the best official in the NBA at the moment is Mike Callahan, who called yesterday's game. He's not the big name with fans that Javie or the Crawfords are, but he's almost never out of position and almost always makes the correct call without fear of being unpopular.

[greyforest]

Every game has missed calls. Officials are not favoring one team.


dude what planet do you live on

it must not have salt lake city utah on it

[nfg3]

Dan Crawford? r u kidding me? steve Javie is the best

Unless Drob was playing in the game. Those two for some reason didn't get along. I think it went back to the #5 playoff game in Utah in '98 or maybe '97. I think Drob either pushed him/ ran into him or something to that effect and got T'd. Can't remember exactly - may someone could refreh my memory. It ain't memorex anymore.

After that every time his name came up as a ref for our games I'd just cringe and hope for the best.

[MarCowMar]

I thought the complaining by the players on both teams was more annoying than the officiating itself. Only a few blown calls, as can be expected in any game.

[timvp]

You must have missed when Duncan was called for a charge on NashNash was set outside of the charge circle. That was a decent enough call. Judgment call but nowadays the defensive player gets the benefit of the doubt as long as they are outside the circle.


when he was called for a foul on either Shaq or Amare when he didn't actually touch anyoneDid you not read the post you quoted?


, when Amare changed his pivot foot twice and jumped into Timmy's chest, How many thousands of times has Tim got the same call in his career?


Parker's sixth foul,Easy call. Parker hit his elbow. Parker even said after the game that he fouled him.


Shaq's sixth, seventh and eighth fouls,On the Ginobili one, Shaq got all ball first and any contact was created by Ginobili. That was a good no call. Playoff games shouldn't be won at the line, especially on a questionable call.


Amare throwing himself into Oberto's armpit to draw a foul.Yes because Duncan never does that.


That's just off the top of my head. I've never watched a Spurs game before where I felt grateful that the Spurs got a whistle on an obvious call.This was about as fair a game as could be expected ... especially with BS calling the game. There were a few bad calls but both teams got 'em.

I saw nothing that warranted a call to 911 for a waaaaaaaaambulance.

[cly2tw]

Someone else said it also... I thought the officiating was HORRIBLE, but that was from my perspective inside the arena, so maybe it was just skewed by the angle if so many people were saying it was fair. I did get the impression that the refs did what they could late to keep Shaq in the game. I have a very hard time believing all of the drives to the basket right at Shaq... and not a single foul when he swings his arms in a downward motion every single time.




So, you believe that Manu should have gotten a lot of and-1s on his scored drives late in the game with Shaq with 5 fouls? The block was maybe questionable, but given that Shaq got the ball first and some Manu's body as a follow through, plus Manu's reputation of flopping, the non-call is justifiable by any standard. It's not like the missed call on Parker for hitting Nash's shooting hand for a layup late in the game. Or when Kurt pushed Diaw away to clear path for Manu drive and score in OT. (Refs were attentive enough to call the 6th on KT the next trip he did the same thing again.)

Now, for a game, the total amount of bad calls is surprisingly low. And Spurs benefitted most due to the resulting foul troubles on the Suns bigs that made Manu and Parker drives possible.

[Mister Sinister]

Probably a slowpoke.jpeg here, but what's the story with Salvatore and the Spurs?

[Elraptor]

I thought the Refs had some bad calls, more on the spurs than the suns.

[mexicanjunior]

I thought the calls favored the Suns, especially in the first half. There were 2 or 3 ball going out of bounds calls that I thought went the Suns way that hurt the Spurs trying to get momentum. In the 2nd half, I thought it got a little more balanced and I think Pop's T may have helped turn the tide...

[Cry Havoc]

It wasn't the worst game I've seen officiating wise. I was too busy being pissed at us for LOAFING in the first half to care about the calls. Then in the second, we were coming back, so again, I was more worried about us putting the ball in the hoop. The only one that pissed me off is the Shaq block on Manu, which, in retrospect, looked like a pretty clean block.

[fyatuk]

I'd call it evenly bad. While the suns got the benefit of blatently wrong calls, I thought the Spurs got the benefit of more close calls. It was horrendous reffing, but it didn't strike me as biased, just aweful.

[fyatuk]

That was the only blatantly bad call I saw.

TP got called for a foul when he made no contact whatsoever. And Shaq did not get called for a foul on a blatant shove to Tim when setting up position (during the replay you can hear one of the announcers laugh a little and they shut up, it was funny).

Those were some blatantly bad calls/no-calls as well.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I thought the complaining by the players on both teams was more annoying than the officiating itself. Only a few blown calls, as can be expected in any game.
I agree with this completely. Shut up and play already.
Also, on a couple of plays in the first half, it looked like Parker was trying harder to draw contact than make his layup.

[Obstructed_View]

Nash was set outside of the charge circle. That was a decent enough call. Judgment call but nowadays the defensive player gets the benefit of the doubt as long as they are outside the circle.
Duncan went around him and caught him in the shoulder. If I have to explain the rules of basketball to you, then we might as well not bother doing this.


Did you not read the post you quoted?
Yeah, did you? Unless you can explain how Timmy can get a "clean block" without making any contact, I don't think we were referring to the same play.


How many thousands of times has Tim got the same call in his career?Parker didn't get that call in the same game. And it doesn't change the fact that he clearly travelled.


Easy call. Parker hit his elbow. Parker even said after the game that he fouled him.
Because Parker complains about foul calls all the time.


On the Ginobili one, Shaq got all ball first and any contact was created by Ginobili. That was a good no call. Playoff games shouldn't be won at the line, especially on a questionable call.
Again, I shouldn't have to explain basketball to you. Shaq got the benefit of the doubt on every questionable play for two games against the Spurs with five fouls. There's just no way you can defend that. None.


Yes because Duncan never does that.
That's just stupid. I have never in my entire life seen Tim Duncan jump into the body of another player when he doesn't have the ball 20 feet away from the basket in order to draw a foul.


This was about as fair a game as could be expected ... especially with BS calling the game. There were a few bad calls but both teams got 'em.

I saw nothing that warranted a call to 911 for a waaaaaaaaambulance.

Yeah, because I do this a lot. :lol

[DePastino]

You should have seen the game in person. It was a joke. Call after bogus call went the Suns way and still the Spurs won. You also probably didn't see all of the cheap crap the Suns were doing on TV away from the ball. I will say this. Shaq us a true Sun now. He's starting to whine just like the rest of them.

Like the Spurs don't piss and moan after EVERY foul? You guys crack me up sometimes. I can at least admit that the Suns complain way too much. I wish they'd just shut up and play.

But news flash: your Spurs whine about fouls at least as much as every other team out there.

[dreamcastrocks]

I don't remember that one, but that would mean that all three of Duncan's fouls were on BS calls.

Are you talking about the one where Duncan slightly made contact with his elbow? That's a foul.

The officiating was equally bad. It wasn't biased in any way. This game was better than any game of last year's series, that's for sure.

[dreamcastrocks]

Duncan went around him and caught him in the shoulder. If I have to explain the rules of basketball to you, then we might as well not bother doing this.



Duncan tried to get around Nash. I could see it called either way, but that one is a no call. Duncan tried to get out of the way.

[Bulwark]

Like the Spurs don't piss and moan after EVERY foul? You guys crack me up sometimes. I can at least admit that the Suns complain way too much. I wish they'd just shut up and play.

But news flash: your Spurs whine about fouls at least as much as every other team out there.
I think every team (players and coaches) complains to the refs. I think it works to a certain extent. But everyone is going to complain about a "perceived" injustice.

But I am tired of all this comlaining about the Suns/Spurs complaining. That's my complaint.

[ambchang]

I am beginning to think that unless every single call goes for a team people be content with the officiating. The whole game was evenly called, there were blown calls both ways, and that is pretty much expected, I don't expect a perfectly called game where refs made no mistakes, but as long as the calls even each other out and does not give a clear advantage towards one team, then all is fine.

To whining fans, please shut up unless you can acknowledge that Thomas set moving screens, and Oberto flopped.

[easjer]

There were some bad calls (as has been pointed out), but that will happen every game. I did not like that Shaq never fouled out, when he clearly should have, but what else is new?

I was unhappy about the officials before the game started, and predicted some of the issues. Came to pass.

Nevertheless, it was called far more evenly than I expected and I would hope that we get at least the same level of even-handedness as Saturday's game tomorrow.

I don't think it's unfair to bitch about officiating. It's unfair to claim that it alone decides games. I'll be among the first to say that the officiating doesn't matter if the team plays well, and in fact, in the middle of my rant Saturday about these officials, I clearly said that if the Spurs were relying on the officials to win, then they were already fucked.

[Obstructed_View]

Are you talking about the one where Duncan slightly made contact with his elbow? That's a foul.
Since I clearly said I don't remember that one, you can call it whatever you want, since I don't remember it. At one point I referred to both the one where Duncan touched nobody and nothing and was whistled, as well as the one you called a "non call" where Duncan was called for a charge.


The officiating was equally bad. It wasn't biased in any way. This game was better than any game of last year's series, that's for sure.
Since Suns fans exclaim over every whistle, lobby for suspensions at any contact and continue to blame the David Stern Conspiracy for suspending two players that were rightfully suspended, I submit that a game that's demonstrably one-sided is exactly the kind of game you would refer to as not biased in any way. :lol

[Obstructed_View]

There were some bad calls (as has been pointed out), but that will happen every game. I did not like that Shaq never fouled out, when he clearly should have, but what else is new?
That was what started me out. I suggested before the game that the Spurs would be able to foul Shaq out if they'd only be aggressive when he had five fouls. I couldn't have been proven more wrong. The fact that it happened two games in a row against him cements it to me.

[ClingingMars]

The officiating was bad for the Suns and the Spurs.

[ShoogarBear]

Both teams played hard.

[td4mvp21]

I thought it was your typical inconsistent officiating you see in the NBA. At first it was call everything on the Suns, nothing on the Spurs, then it was call everything on the Spurs, nothing on the Suns, and then in the 4th/overtimes it was call nothing for either team.